Looking at thieves..I realize the scope of nerf threads... — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Looking at thieves..I realize the scope of nerf threads...

Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

Basically the nerf threads about a specific profession will stop when it will be no more deemed a threat by the average playerbase ( average skill level) of every other class , to mention that at this stage even being considered an annoyance is enough to warrant a long list of nerf threads.

Prior to GW2 launch during August 2012 , all the GW fanbase could be found on the fan site GW Guru if I am not wrong, it was quite good, one feature that I particulary enjoyed was the insta temporary ban of whoever started a nerf thread just for the sake of complaining, something the GW2 forum desperately needs given the current climate as the GW2 forum has devolved in just another typical MMO forum.

Dear GW2 players...I have a simple question : if you ask to nerf that aspect of that profession, the very aspect that makes that profession a threat to the one you're playing...how exactly the nerfed profession will be able to compete against your profession afterward?

Few examples here :
-People ask to nerf pet damage , longbow damage , reduce multipliers , reduce boon application...then what the ranger supposed to do? how it can survive and kill your class?
-People ask to nerf sword evades of weaver...now we have a low HP class at melee range with no other form of protection against aoe/range pressure other than some 2-3k healing
-People ask to nerf blocks on guardian...how is the class supposed to survive pressure given its low HP?
-People ask to nerf warrior sustain...how the class supposed to be played at melee range when its sustain is already mediocre in mediocre hands?

Looking at thieves..I realize the scope of nerf threads......there is no scope other than knocking a profession out of viability

Pettiness.....Hypocrisy.....Short sighted are the only words that come to mind whenever I read the GW2 pvp forum, it's truly a shame that the majority of players can't see anything outside the boundaries of their own ego

-A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

<1

Comments

  • Euthymias.7984Euthymias.7984 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 5, 2019

    Congratulations, you've uncovered the true nature of the forums usual userbase.
    There are some suggestions in the profession specific forums at least about how things can be changed while shaving some of the more ridiculous aspects of a given profession, but you probably cannot expect that sort of measured approach here regularly. Its far easier to cry that something is overperforming and hope/suggest harsh nerfs without compromise or consideration till that thing is non-functional or the class/spec drops from the meta entirely more than anything else. It does give me some mild relief sometimes that the Devs probably take a lot of the posts here with a Vial of Salt when it comes to their balancing..

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 5, 2019

    @Euthymias.7984 said:
    Congratulations, you've uncovered the true nature of the forums usual userbase.
    There are some suggestions in the profession specific forums at least about how things can be changed while shaving some of the more ridiculous aspects of a given profession, but you probably cannot expect that sort of measured approach here regularly. Its far easier to cry that something is overperforming and hope/suggest harsh nerfs without compromise or consideration till that thing is non-functional or the class/spec drops from the meta entirely more than anything else. It does give me some mild relief sometimes that the Devs probably take a lot of the posts here with a Vial of Salt when it comes to their balancing..

    They did make an Item called Vial Of Salt and I believe it took a lot of tears to make it...

    Theres also a llama section in the lobby talking about PvP players aggression and hyperboles.

    Id like Anet to make more items or nick nacks that take the kitten out of us or make a mockery of us, its a nice chuckle... Until they do it using balance and bugs, im 90%% sure they broke DD Tempest last patch on purpose to annoy me 😑
    (If Earth overload is nerfed next patch ill know it to be true)

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    06210311 251521 121512

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 5, 2019

    The threads about professions will stop until healthy competitiveness fun designs and mechanics are implemented for all player base including all skill levels players.

    Here is a video of Thief being freely rewarded for taking risks and being reward at the same time and even repeating it over and over again (resetting fights without having any consequences whatsoever)
    Important (Thief player in the video is not to be blamed for being given a toxic design profession)

    Let me ask you; why is rewarding toxicity instead of nerfing it-minimizing it, is not a threat?

    Why Reward and Risk at the same time? and not Risk than Reward?

    Why reward toxicity instead of minimize it? why no consequences for toxicity?

    Arheundel, i'm sure you and i including many that nerfing is in actions, not in writing.

    'Actions speaks louder than words'

    Until than
    Have a good day

  • Inoki.6048Inoki.6048 Member ✭✭✭

    Except e.g. in the case of Soulbeasts - playing one myself - I realise how out of proportions that class is. What it can do requires no special mastery other than: press elite (even that is not necessary in most cases), activate Sic'Em and press 2 = target is dead, whatever that is, in most instances, unless it procs some auto-invul or Signet of Stone. Auto attacks hit for an average of 5 - 7k against most classes, which equals to an average of 3 - 4 hits before someone dies at very long range. Classes like Necros don't stand even the slightest of chances. Only very high mobility classes may outplay me, and even that only if I choose to engage in closer combat, as due to super high range I pick my fights. I could play it safe all day by only engaging from walls, cliffs, or any other ground that keeps me away from harm. It's like being on a picnic.

    But I agree with you that most of the time people just come to vent after playing miserably against XYZ and their posts blatantly lack a grain of insight.

    Above all, there needs to be a PTS and extensive testing done before acceptable values are discovered. Atm. there's so much power creep it's a mess. Before you blame the community, look to the company, who took a stance to ignore real issues and focus on generating revenue by adding, not correctly adjusting content. Again we'll have a new mount.......... like, what for? Soon we'll have more mounts that there are available key binds on a gaming mouse. And with new skills more passives, more interactions the servers won't be able to handle, and it will be a cluster fok that will introduce more skill lag in WvW and so on.

  • Megametzler.5729Megametzler.5729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Burnfall.9573 said:
    (...)

    God, just delete daggerstorm please.

    And, yes, buff other defenses (like reducing CD on Roll for Initiative for example). Just not that dumb one-button-win-skill. Bad, bad, bad design happened a lot to thief in the last months/years.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Inoki.6048 said:
    Except e.g. in the case of Soulbeasts - playing one myself - I realise how out of proportions that class is. What it can do requires no special mastery other than: press elite (even that is not necessary in most cases), activate Sic'Em and press 2 = target is dead, whatever that is, in most instances, unless it procs some auto-invul or Signet of Stone. Auto attacks hit for an average of 5 - 7k against most classes, which equals to an average of 3 - 4 hits before someone dies at very long range. Classes like Necros don't stand even the slightest of chances. Only very high mobility classes may outplay me, and even that only if I choose to engage in closer combat, as due to super high range I pick my fights. I could play it safe all day by only engaging from walls, cliffs, or any other ground that keeps me away from harm. It's like being on a picnic.

    But I agree with you that most of the time people just come to vent after playing miserably against XYZ and their posts blatantly lack a grain of insight.

    Above all, there needs to be a PTS and extensive testing done before acceptable values are discovered. Atm. there's so much power creep it's a mess. Before you blame the community, look to the company, who took a stance to ignore real issues and focus on generating revenue by adding, not correctly adjusting content. Again we'll have a new mount.......... like, what for? Soon we'll have more mounts that there are available key binds on a gaming mouse. And with new skills more passives, more interactions the servers won't be able to handle, and it will be a cluster fok that will introduce more skill lag in WvW and so on.

    I am not against nerfs..those are necessary to keep the game alive, I am against nerfs that remove a playstyle/spec from viability. In the end of the days we're still talking a ranger: a class supposed to be a ranged threat and we cannot remove that otherwise the class becomes useless

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Inoki.6048Inoki.6048 Member ✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Inoki.6048 said:
    Except e.g. in the case of Soulbeasts - playing one myself - I realise how out of proportions that class is. What it can do requires no special mastery other than: press elite (even that is not necessary in most cases), activate Sic'Em and press 2 = target is dead, whatever that is, in most instances, unless it procs some auto-invul or Signet of Stone. Auto attacks hit for an average of 5 - 7k against most classes, which equals to an average of 3 - 4 hits before someone dies at very long range. Classes like Necros don't stand even the slightest of chances. Only very high mobility classes may outplay me, and even that only if I choose to engage in closer combat, as due to super high range I pick my fights. I could play it safe all day by only engaging from walls, cliffs, or any other ground that keeps me away from harm. It's like being on a picnic.

    But I agree with you that most of the time people just come to vent after playing miserably against XYZ and their posts blatantly lack a grain of insight.

    Above all, there needs to be a PTS and extensive testing done before acceptable values are discovered. Atm. there's so much power creep it's a mess. Before you blame the community, look to the company, who took a stance to ignore real issues and focus on generating revenue by adding, not correctly adjusting content. Again we'll have a new mount.......... like, what for? Soon we'll have more mounts that there are available key binds on a gaming mouse. And with new skills more passives, more interactions the servers won't be able to handle, and it will be a cluster fok that will introduce more skill lag in WvW and so on.

    I am not against nerfs..those are necessary to keep the game alive, I am against nerfs that remove a playstyle/spec from viability. In the end of the days we're still talking a ranger: a class supposed to be a ranged threat and we cannot remove that otherwise the class becomes useless

    I completely agree with you, but even that within somewhat reasonable proportions so it's also fun for me, as a Ranger, which it currently is not. After a few kills I often swap toons to play something where I actually have to do something to win.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Burnfall.9573 said:
    The threads about professions will stop until healthy competitiveness fun designs and mechanics are implemented for all player base including all skill levels players.

    Here is a video of Thief being freely rewarded for taking risks and being reward at the same time and even repeating it over and over again (resetting fights without having any consequences whatsoever)
    Important (Thief player in the video is not to be blamed for being given a toxic design profession)

    Let me ask you; why is rewarding toxicity instead of nerfing it-minimizing it, is not a threat?

    Why Reward and Risk at the same time? and not Risk than Reward?

    Why reward toxicity instead of minimize it? why no consequences for toxicity?

    Arheundel, i'm sure you and i including many that nerfing is in actions, not in writing.

    'Actions speaks louder than words'

    Until than
    Have a good day

    The nerf must be done right so that the class can maintain its identity and the role given from that specific playstyle/elite, when people ask to remove specific aspects of a class without compensation they A) make it clear they don't play that class and B)they have no intention of seeing that class being a viable pick at all.

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I"m all for preserving professions identity but there must be strict rules put in place when they become toxic for the health of the game.

    Yes, which includes keeping healthy balances interactions between each professions.

    Not to give a profession/s unlimited tools-skills, mechanics with having free access and taking risks at the same time.

    One skill mechanic should not give many access to everything and to many things.

    Lastly, for once, I truly believe that Anet should redo the entire professions designs because at the mimenr: every professions are everyone's identity and more at the same time.

    So yes again, I'm completely with you on professions identity

  • Markri.9475Markri.9475 Member ✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:
    Looking at thieves..I realize the scope of nerf threads......there is no scope other than knocking a profession out of viability

    What do you mean ? Are thieves creating too many nerf threads?

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Burnfall.9573 said:
    I"m all for preserving professions identity but there must be strict rules put in place when they become toxic for the health of the game.

    Yes, which includes keeping healthy balances interactions between each professions.

    Not to give a profession/s unlimited tools-skills, mechanics with having free access and taking risks at the same time.

    One skill mechanic should not give many access to everything and to many things.

    Lastly, for once, I truly believe that Anet should redo the entire professions designs because at the mimenr: every professions are everyone's identity and more at the same time.

    So yes again, I'm completely with you on professions identity

    The strict rules you're looking for are unfortunately out of reach for GW2 and this is an intended design, if you're talking about something similar to GW1 than GW2 was never meant to be that complex. Looking at the pve scene you notice how everything must be its own "one man army" to guarantee a certain level of fun , that design ideology influence the PvP and WvW scene.

    "Doing loads of dmg in the thick of battle while being hard to kill" seems to be the general direction of the game right now...so we either have all professions on that same level ( while following their own specific class design) or none of them.

    We either make all professions self-sufficient or none of them should be, there cannot be any gray line else everybody will flock in that direction

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 5, 2019

    @Markri.9475 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:
    Looking at thieves..I realize the scope of nerf threads......there is no scope other than knocking a profession out of viability

    What do you mean ? Are thieves creating too many nerf threads?

    They created enough nerf threads to warrant their current state which I believe was not intended, the nerfs went a tad too far...the threat level of thieves has been lowered too much. I take thieves as an example to explain the current climate of which even elementalist is a victim too; in GW1 every class remains a serious threat, it has been so from launch to now...and we're talking about 9 professions with several builds, each representing a different level of threat and each seeing various levels of gameplay.

    It's sad to see the current state of GW2, nerfs these days are asked more out of spite than objectivity .

    I see nerf requests about sword evades and while these requests are logical...I still don't see any follow up idea on how to balance a 10k HP light armor class at melee range, yes I can see how sword evades may be considered hard to cope with but...how else is a class like elementalist supposed to be played at melee range given the current levels of dmg and pressure coming from all ranges?

    I take ele as an example as I am more familiar with it but I play also warrior-guardian and ranger and I can make a similar case with each one of them

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • @Arheundel.6451 said:
    Pettiness.....Hypocrisy.....Short sighted are the only words that come to mind whenever I read the GW2 pvp forum, it's truly a shame that the majority of players can't see anything outside the boundaries of their own ego.

    True enough. Admittedly I have a penchant for being petty at times here as well. Somewhere down the line though, I realized I needed to at least touch the other classes I was having issues with to make sure that if I had a problem I didn't end up advocating what was essentially the deletion of the class, but obviously there will be people that don't realize that and just don't want to learn the matchup.

    Ofcourse, as @Zenix.6198 said there are -still- overperformers. The majority of forum goers are drama llamas but that doesn't mean that the game itself is completely balanced.

    [Charr Noises]
    [Plays every class]
    [JUST GIT EVEN GUDDER ITS FINE]

  • Alatar.7364Alatar.7364 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Markri.9475 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:
    Looking at thieves..I realize the scope of nerf threads......there is no scope other than knocking a profession out of viability

    What do you mean ? Are thieves creating too many nerf threads?

    They created enough nerf threads to warrant their current state which I believe was not intended, the nerfs went a tad too far...the threat level of thieves has been lowered too much. I take thieves as an example to explain the current climate of which even elementalist is a victim too; in GW1 every class remains a serious threat, it has been so from launch to now...and we're talking about 9 professions with several builds, each representing a different level of threat and each seeing various levels of gameplay.

    It's sad to see the current state of GW2, nerfs these days are asked more out of spite than objectivity .

    I see nerf requests about sword evades and while these requests are logical...I still don't see any follow up idea on how to balance a 10k HP light armor class at melee range, yes I can see how sword evades may be considered hard to cope with but...how else is a class like elementalist supposed to be played at melee range given the current levels of dmg and pressure coming from all ranges?

    I take ele as an example as I am more familiar with it but I play also warrior-guardian and ranger and I can make a similar case with each one of them

    I am also a bit confused, I understand your post as a whole and kind of agree, but I don't see the nerf threads the Thieves created except one. Or did you mean the threads about Swipe change being too much?

    ~ I Aear cân ven na mar

  • iKeostuKen.2738iKeostuKen.2738 Member ✭✭✭

    @Zenix.6198 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Everyone screams OP at everything, but never seem to notice that the game is clearly designed around a rock/paper/scissor effect.

    Stop it.

    Necros are supposed to die Rangers
    Rangers are supposed to die to Warriors
    Warriors get kitten on by Revenants
    And Revenants get chewed by Necros
    ect ect ect

    We know when something is truly over powered, when it counters too many things and doesn't have enough counters against it. If that isn't happening but players are still complaining, it almost certainly means that the complaints are coming from a place of biased whining and lack of ability to identify & accept the rock/paper/scissors effect.

    Rock/paper/scissors is fine
    The ridiculously inflated numbers some classes can pull, are not.

    So much this. A lot of the time its for this reason alone. Mesmer/ Warriors/ Soulbeast(At times) Mostly having to do with powercrept classes that are way out of hand.

  • Raiden The Beast.3016Raiden The Beast.3016 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 5, 2019

    Just let the top player base suggest for balance and delete the meme.

    Would be somehow benefitful if Sindrener, Rom, Drazeh, Boyce, ... and others on there level would give there suggestions for a balance approach into the anet rng black Roulette balance...

  • AngelLovesFredrik.6741AngelLovesFredrik.6741 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 5, 2019

    @Arheundel.6451 said:
    in GW1 every class remains a serious threat, it has been so from launch to now...and we're talking about 9 professions with several builds, each representing a different level of threat

    Paragons would like to have a word with you.

    ~ God Tier Guardian

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:
    Basically the nerf threads about a specific profession will stop when it will be no more deemed a threat by the average playerbase ( average skill level) of every other class , to mention that at this stage even being considered an annoyance is enough to warrant a long list of nerf threads.

    Prior to GW2 launch during August 2012 , all the GW fanbase could be found on the fan site GW Guru if I am not wrong, it was quite good, one feature that I particulary enjoyed was the insta temporary ban of whoever started a nerf thread just for the sake of complaining, something the GW2 forum desperately needs given the current climate as the GW2 forum has devolved in just another typical MMO forum.

    Dear GW2 players...I have a simple question : if you ask to nerf that aspect of that profession, the very aspect that makes that profession a threat to the one you're playing...how exactly the nerfed profession will be able to compete against your profession afterward?

    Few examples here :
    -People ask to nerf pet damage , longbow damage , reduce multipliers , reduce boon application...then what the ranger supposed to do? how it can survive and kill your class?
    -People ask to nerf sword evades of weaver...now we have a low HP class at melee range with no other form of protection against aoe/range pressure other than some 2-3k healing
    -People ask to nerf blocks on guardian...how is the class supposed to survive pressure given its low HP?
    -People ask to nerf warrior sustain...how the class supposed to be played at melee range when its sustain is already mediocre in mediocre hands?

    Looking at thieves..I realize the scope of nerf threads......there is no scope other than knocking a profession out of viability

    Pettiness.....Hypocrisy.....Short sighted are the only words that come to mind whenever I read the GW2 pvp forum, it's truly a shame that the majority of players can't see anything outside the boundaries of their own ego

    The ONLY thing I want gone on thief, is being able to spike while invisible. Just like I want the engineers mini-form to be gone from their traits because having two rounds of that skill; Is ludicrous and I don't know why they are one of the only classes to have something like this? I think its kitten, and alot of other class's can't get out like that when kitten goes bad.

    Make it so when a thief goes to spike they are visible, they can't teleport spike and they can't continuously knock you up into the air anymore. Mainly because I think it's kind of lame that they are able to run around with perma-invisibility. Either its a build or the ones doing it are hacking; Im not sure I don't play thief but nothing annoys me more than someone on my team getting downed, and a thief going invis and no matter how much I do to reveal them it seems like they wont pop out of stealth.

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 5, 2019

    @Euthymias.7984 said:
    Congratulations, you've uncovered the true nature of the forums usual userbase.
    There are some suggestions in the profession specific forums at least about how things can be changed while shaving some of the more ridiculous aspects of a given profession, but you probably cannot expect that sort of measured approach here regularly. Its far easier to cry that something is overperforming and hope/suggest harsh nerfs without compromise or consideration till that thing is non-functional or the class/spec drops from the meta entirely more than anything else. It does give me some mild relief sometimes that the Devs probably take a lot of the posts here with a Vial of Salt when it comes to their balancing..

    This is what happened to engi turrets. They're still mostly useless, except thumper turret and healing turret. And people want to nerf those too. :tongue:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    Just like I want the engineers mini-form to be gone from their traits because having two rounds of that skill; Is ludicrous and I don't know why they are one of the only classes to have something like this? I think its kitten, and alot of other class's can't get out like that when kitten goes bad.

    Brah, they removed auto elixir s from engineer traits a few patches ago. When did you last play? It's now Elixir E.

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • Azure The Heartless.3261Azure The Heartless.3261 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 5, 2019

    @Solori.6025 said:
    -snip-
    They could make it worse or they could further pigeon hole the class into a playstyle/build Not everyone enjoys.

    Agreed. There is a long way to go in terms of playstyles existing that suck the fun out of other players being balanced, and playstyles that= reward skillful play being created and made viable. That kind of balance takes more than metrics. It takes a team that is willing to both play with and against the build and evaluate why it was good, or why it was bad to either play or fight.

    That's a tall order given the track record.

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    Just like I want the engineers mini-form to be gone from their traits because having two rounds of that skill; Is ludicrous and I don't know why they are one of the only classes to have something like this? I think its kitten, and alot of other class's can't get out like that when kitten goes bad.

    Brah, they removed auto elixir s from engineer traits a few patches ago. When did you last play? It's now Elixir E.

    Case in point that we probably shouldn't be trusted to do it. TBH the forums are going to cry regardless, even if the problem no longer exists. I bet if the dev team did mock spvp matches with the builds that have high winrates, and ones that had low winrates or were unused regularly, there would probably be more targeted tweaking.

    [Charr Noises]
    [Plays every class]
    [JUST GIT EVEN GUDDER ITS FINE]

  • Jack Redline.5379Jack Redline.5379 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    'Actions speaks louder than words'

    Until than
    Have a good day

    another of them fabulous 2013 videos?
    Yea back in the day probably. Today? Nah

  • Alatar.7364Alatar.7364 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 5, 2019

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:
    Basically the nerf threads about a specific profession will stop when it will be no more deemed a threat by the average playerbase ( average skill level) of every other class , to mention that at this stage even being considered an annoyance is enough to warrant a long list of nerf threads.

    Prior to GW2 launch during August 2012 , all the GW fanbase could be found on the fan site GW Guru if I am not wrong, it was quite good, one feature that I particulary enjoyed was the insta temporary ban of whoever started a nerf thread just for the sake of complaining, something the GW2 forum desperately needs given the current climate as the GW2 forum has devolved in just another typical MMO forum.

    Dear GW2 players...I have a simple question : if you ask to nerf that aspect of that profession, the very aspect that makes that profession a threat to the one you're playing...how exactly the nerfed profession will be able to compete against your profession afterward?

    Few examples here :
    -People ask to nerf pet damage , longbow damage , reduce multipliers , reduce boon application...then what the ranger supposed to do? how it can survive and kill your class?
    -People ask to nerf sword evades of weaver...now we have a low HP class at melee range with no other form of protection against aoe/range pressure other than some 2-3k healing
    -People ask to nerf blocks on guardian...how is the class supposed to survive pressure given its low HP?
    -People ask to nerf warrior sustain...how the class supposed to be played at melee range when its sustain is already mediocre in mediocre hands?

    Looking at thieves..I realize the scope of nerf threads......there is no scope other than knocking a profession out of viability

    Pettiness.....Hypocrisy.....Short sighted are the only words that come to mind whenever I read the GW2 pvp forum, it's truly a shame that the majority of players can't see anything outside the boundaries of their own ego

    The ONLY thing I want gone on thief, is being able to spike while invisible. Just like I want the engineers mini-form to be gone from their traits because having two rounds of that skill; Is ludicrous and I don't know why they are one of the only classes to have something like this? I think its kitten, and alot of other class's can't get out like that when kitten goes bad.

    Make it so when a thief goes to spike they are visible, they can't teleport spike and they can't continuously knock you up into the air anymore. Mainly because I think it's kind of lame that they are able to run around with perma-invisibility. Either its a build or the ones doing it are hacking; Im not sure I don't play thief but nothing annoys me more than someone on my team getting downed, and a thief going invis and no matter how much I do to reveal them it seems like they wont pop out of stealth.

    Inform yourself before posting, Engineers do not have two Elixirs S.

    Also please explain how is Thief continuously knocking anyone up in the Air and with what skills they do that continuous stuff.
    Second also, Mesmers spike from stealth for much higher dmg with much lower cooldown, if you gonna suggest such profession-breaking changes to Thief (eg: can't teleport spike), all while saying you don't play thief..
    , then don't leave out better, more powerful versions of it.

    ~ I Aear cân ven na mar

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 6, 2019

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    I am not against nerfs..those are necessary to keep the game alive, I am against nerfs that remove a playstyle/spec from viability. In the end of the days we're still talking a ranger: a class supposed to be a ranged threat and we cannot remove that otherwise the class becomes useless

    That's become the legacy of the Spvp forums.
    I realized this stupid trend a couple of years ago.
    I cant however put the blame entirely on the community though ( as much as I want to anyway) because at the end of the day Anet is the gatekeeper with the keys.
    They control how well the ship sails and they have done a very poor job at it.
    The philosophy they have of nerf to the ground now, buff later needs to go. They need a new team of people that would be willing to actually sit down and play the class they are thinking of adjusting. They need learn to admit mistakes, and they need to stop listening to the outrageous Spvp forums. Barely anything good comes from here.
    They have so much to fix now that could have been avoided had they simply sat down and thought about what they are adding or changing. Or played the changes.
    We have trait lines/traits that are unusable. Skills that classes can't live without. Builds and playstyle removed because Anet can't seem to think beyond the scope of a week. There is no vision for longevity for half the things they change. Then to top it all off to do these game altering changes takes them 3 to 4 months and they may or may not fix the issue at ALL. They could make it worse or they could further pigeon hole the class into a playstyle/build Not everyone enjoys.
    Take that as a rant if you want but Anet needs to do better. Nothing will get fixed until then.

    Best post I've read in a while. Well said.

    I hope the coming months show an improvement in the frequency, care/sensitivity/delicacy and attention to detail in the balance changes for maximising player choice and the long term health/enjoyment of the game.

    My ears, how are you! | Kourna Jackrabbit for default Springer

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Curunen.8729 said:

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    I am not against nerfs..those are necessary to keep the game alive, I am against nerfs that remove a playstyle/spec from viability. In the end of the days we're still talking a ranger: a class supposed to be a ranged threat and we cannot remove that otherwise the class becomes useless

    That's become the legacy of the Spvp forums.
    I realized this stupid trend a couple of years ago.
    I cant however put the blame entirely on the community though ( as much as I want to anyway) because at the end of the day Anet is the gatekeeper with the keys.
    They control how well the ship sails and they have done a very poor job at it.
    The philosophy they have of nerf to the ground now, buff later needs to go. They need a new team of people that would be willing to actually sit down and play the class they are thinking of adjusting. They need learn to admit mistakes, and they need to stop listening to the outrageous Spvp forums. Barely anything good comes from here.
    They have so much to fix now that could have been avoided had they simply sat down and thought about what they are adding or changing. Or played the changes.
    We have trait lines/traits that are unusable. Skills that classes can't live without. Builds and playstyle removed because Anet can't seem to think beyond the scope of a week. There is no vision for longevity for half the things they change. Then to top it all off to do these game altering changes takes them 3 to 4 months and they may or may not fix the issue at ALL. They could make it worse or they could further pigeon hole the class into a playstyle/build Not everyone enjoys.
    Take that as a rant if you want but Anet needs to do better. Nothing will get fixed until then.

    Best post I've read in a while. Well said.

    I hope the coming months show an improvement in the frequency, care/sensitivity/delicacy and attention to detail in the balance changes for maximising player choice and the long term health/enjoyment of the game.

    It's more than likely just a marketing technique. They are probably making sure that certain things are stronger than others at certain times, for the purpose of "giving us something new to do" so the game doesn't get boring, because we are always having to switch and play different things. If a perfect balance had been achieved in year 1 and things had never changed, would any of us still be having fun if we had played the same meta for 7 years with no changes and no new learning process to accompany those changes?

  • DanAlcedo.3281DanAlcedo.3281 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I love cheese in RL but hate it Ingame.

    As long as there is this mountain of cheese ingame, i complain as much as i want.

    <3

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Everyone screams OP at everything, but never seem to notice that the game is clearly designed around a rock/paper/scissor effect.

    Stop it.

    Necros are supposed to die Rangers
    Rangers are supposed to die to Warriors
    Warriors get kitten on by Revenants
    And Revenants get chewed by Necros
    ect ect ect

    We know when something is truly over powered, when it counters too many things and doesn't have enough counters against it. If that isn't happening but players are still complaining, it almost certainly means that the complaints are coming from a place of biased whining and lack of ability to identify & accept the rock/paper/scissors effect.

    Reference?

    // Yanim

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 6, 2019

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Inoki.6048 said:
    Except e.g. in the case of Soulbeasts - playing one myself - I realise how out of proportions that class is. What it can do requires no special mastery other than: press elite (even that is not necessary in most cases), activate Sic'Em and press 2 = target is dead, whatever that is, in most instances, unless it procs some auto-invul or Signet of Stone. Auto attacks hit for an average of 5 - 7k against most classes, which equals to an average of 3 - 4 hits before someone dies at very long range. Classes like Necros don't stand even the slightest of chances. Only very high mobility classes may outplay me, and even that only if I choose to engage in closer combat, as due to super high range I pick my fights. I could play it safe all day by only engaging from walls, cliffs, or any other ground that keeps me away from harm. It's like being on a picnic.

    But I agree with you that most of the time people just come to vent after playing miserably against XYZ and their posts blatantly lack a grain of insight.

    Above all, there needs to be a PTS and extensive testing done before acceptable values are discovered. Atm. there's so much power creep it's a mess. Before you blame the community, look to the company, who took a stance to ignore real issues and focus on generating revenue by adding, not correctly adjusting content. Again we'll have a new mount.......... like, what for? Soon we'll have more mounts that there are available key binds on a gaming mouse. And with new skills more passives, more interactions the servers won't be able to handle, and it will be a cluster fok that will introduce more skill lag in WvW and so on.

    I am not against nerfs..those are necessary to keep the game alive, I am against nerfs that remove a playstyle/spec from viability. In the end of the days we're still talking a ranger: a class supposed to be a ranged threat and we cannot remove that otherwise the class becomes useless

    While I agree with you in sentiment, playstyles are not holy. Certain playstyles are just not fun for conquest PvP, for example I would say clone death mesmer, phantasm mesmer, spirit ranger, turret engi, some others.

    And ranger doesn't become useless if its long-range threat is nerfed. On the contrary, when ranger has been meta in PvP it has generally been as an on-point fighter.

    // Yanim

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 6, 2019

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:
    Basically the nerf threads about a specific profession will stop when it will be no more deemed a threat by the average playerbase ( average skill level) of every other class , to mention that at this stage even being considered an annoyance is enough to warrant a long list of nerf threads.

    Prior to GW2 launch during August 2012 , all the GW fanbase could be found on the fan site GW Guru if I am not wrong, it was quite good, one feature that I particulary enjoyed was the insta temporary ban of whoever started a nerf thread just for the sake of complaining, something the GW2 forum desperately needs given the current climate as the GW2 forum has devolved in just another typical MMO forum.

    Dear GW2 players...I have a simple question : if you ask to nerf that aspect of that profession, the very aspect that makes that profession a threat to the one you're playing...how exactly the nerfed profession will be able to compete against your profession afterward?

    Few examples here :
    -People ask to nerf pet damage , longbow damage , reduce multipliers , reduce boon application...then what the ranger supposed to do? how it can survive and kill your class?
    -People ask to nerf sword evades of weaver...now we have a low HP class at melee range with no other form of protection against aoe/range pressure other than some 2-3k healing
    -People ask to nerf blocks on guardian...how is the class supposed to survive pressure given its low HP?
    -People ask to nerf warrior sustain...how the class supposed to be played at melee range when its sustain is already mediocre in mediocre hands?

    Looking at thieves..I realize the scope of nerf threads......there is no scope other than knocking a profession out of viability

    Pettiness.....Hypocrisy.....Short sighted are the only words that come to mind whenever I read the GW2 pvp forum, it's truly a shame that the majority of players can't see anything outside the boundaries of their own ego

    The ONLY thing I want gone on thief, is being able to spike while invisible. Just like I want the engineers mini-form to be gone from their traits because having two rounds of that skill; Is ludicrous and I don't know why they are one of the only classes to have something like this? I think its kitten, and alot of other class's can't get out like that when kitten goes bad.

    Make it so when a thief goes to spike they are visible, they can't teleport spike and they can't continuously knock you up into the air anymore. Mainly because I think it's kind of lame that they are able to run around with perma-invisibility. Either its a build or the ones doing it are hacking; Im not sure I don't play thief but nothing annoys me more than someone on my team getting downed, and a thief going invis and no matter how much I do to reveal them it seems like they wont pop out of stealth.

    Inform yourself before posting, Engineers do not have two Elixirs S.

    Also please explain how is Thief continuously knocking anyone up in the Air and with what skills they do that continuous stuff.
    Second also, Mesmers spike from stealth for much higher dmg with much lower cooldown, if you gonna suggest such profession-breaking changes to Thief (eg: can't teleport spike), all while saying you don't play thief..
    , then don't leave out better, more powerful versions of it.

    kitten off, it happens all the time. A thief comes to spike and then suddenly for some reason the person they are spiking is being knocked in the air continueously; I straight said that it might be a hack. We all know many people hack in pvp and WvW the speed hack as well others have been exposed and nothing is being done about it. I never said it was directly linked to the class; It could be an over-arcing problem. Secondly Engineer has two Elixer S, one on trait when hitting the threshold and the other is one they actively can use.

    I've seen engineers go from small to normal back to small; They can spike while in this form which is kitten as well as thieves spiking from stealth. Deal with it, it's abuse just like invulnerability as a whole is a kitten thing to begin with in this game. Either make it so no one has it; Or everyone does so we can all enjoy the defensive's and such Im not for anyone having some hanky kitten they can pull. thieves also can disengage a target go stealth and reset the fight if it doesn't go their way; Which is bull either commit or don't. As someone who played assasin in guild wars 1, thief is a pathetic variant to try and keep that type of gameplay relevant in this game without giving them the tools. Im sorry if you stand up for this sort of kitten then you're part of the problem; The class has issues and honestly needs to be addressed im all for giving you more tools to stay in a fight. To be able to commit but to escape or kill someone from stealth, with no draw-back on your end is kitten.

    Stealth/Invulnerability is abused in this game; And it needs to be fixed. Perma-stealth should not be a thing, and this almost near perma-invulnerability spam needs to stop. It AGAIN might be hacks but to sit here and say it doesn't happen proves you're ignorant and don't know what the hell you're talking about. My guild and I see it all the time in WvW and I've seen it time and again in pvp. It will be addressed and thank god its happening now because its stupid; You should have to commit and play the game like everyone else.

    Side-note I don't agree with ANYONE having these tools, I think it shouldn't be a thing PERIOD. I think that the game would benefit if it were changed and it would force smarter; More intuitive plays on the part of the people who abuse it. Or they would quit, either way it would be a good thing as again I never meant to make it come off as me just attacking theieves. Messmers need it removed too, I don't agree with them killing or spiking in stealth either but then I agree with an even playing field for EVERYONE. Not just me, or my guild or my friends but everyone and I want this game to come down to skill and time played on the class not kitten abuse of mechanics from a dated age when guild wars 2 was trying to be a moba and not an mmo-rpg.

  • DragonFury.6243DragonFury.6243 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Everyone screams OP at everything, but never seem to notice that the game is clearly designed around a rock/paper/scissor effect.

    Stop it.

    Necros are supposed to die Rangers

    power core and reaper if they position them self and use their shroud skill 2 smartly they ll have an equal 1v1 based on skill
    condi scourge will die to ranger every single time unless the range enter the radius of condi vomit then he might lose

    Rangers are supposed to die to Warriors

    ranger will eat berserker every time
    SB will have an equal 1v1 with the ranger based on SB skill to decrease the distance and ranger to maintaining the distance

    Warriors get kitten on by Revenants

    i dont know what do you mean by that !!

    And Revenants get chewed by Necros

    rev lose to heavy corrupt condi necro that mean scourge mainly and even heavy corrupt power necro dont do much threat to the rev

    ect ect ect

    We know when something is truly over powered, when it counters too many things and doesn't have enough counters against it. If that isn't happening but players are still complaining, it almost certainly means that the complaints are coming from a place of biased whining and lack of ability to identify & accept the rock/paper/scissors effect.

    and may i remind you that our GW2 PvP is not 1v1 and it SPvP so scourge will never die to a ranger if he have a FB with him
    power creep and unhealthy skills need a nerf to help the game mode
    rampage
    dagger storm
    sand shad mechanic
    elixir U
    shake it off
    Sic Em
    ect ect ect

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    kitten off, it happens all the time. A thief comes to spike and then suddenly for some reason the person they are spiking is being knocked in the air continueously; I straight said that it might be a hack

    It can't, Hacks in Gw can be only speed/movement related. Also I have played PvP for years and I have never during that time seen happen what you describe. I am pretty sure you are confusing Impact Strike which is an Elite and it knocks-up only once with a CD of 40 seconds in its dmg is hardly anywhere near "spike dmg".

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    Secondly Engineer has two Elixer S, one on trait when hitting the threshold and the other is one they actively can use.

    No they don't. What is the last time you played Engineer... or PvP?

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    I've seen engineers go from small to normal back to small; They can spike while in this form which is kitten as well as thieves spiking from stealth.

    No they can't and never could, the hell? Are you even playing this game?

    So clearly I didn't explain enough, Im not talking spike damage. Im talking a Skill in which it constantly CC's you into what I could only describe as bouncing in the air while you are being spiked within down state. Im not sure what is causing or doing it but it is only and I mean only something I face when fighting or dealing with a Daredevil explicitly; I've never had it done or mimicked to me by any other class. And no there are other hacks out there for guild wars, there is a life hack which prevents you from dying we fought a messmer last night who was running it.

    And yes Engineers can and have I have seen it first hand where they come out of mini-state; And then not even ten seconds afterwards go right back into it. It is either a trait or they are bypassing the global cooldown. Either way it happens I've seen it happen and have had it done to me, You're completely ignoring everything because your previous thief got nerfed. Are YOU even playing this game? Like are you really? These issues are things people have brought up time and again, I don't know why you are surprised or acting like you know more than anyone else.

    Clearly you and I have different experiences, that and you're reading comprehension of what I am writing is lacking fundamentally at a basic level of what could be considered acceptable for conversing. I think it's time we parted ways and agree to disagree and call it what it is; Saves us both the trouble.

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kolly.9872 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:
    Basically the nerf threads about a specific profession will stop when it will be no more deemed a threat by the average playerbase ( average skill level) of every other class , to mention that at this stage even being considered an annoyance is enough to warrant a long list of nerf threads.

    Prior to GW2 launch during August 2012 , all the GW fanbase could be found on the fan site GW Guru if I am not wrong, it was quite good, one feature that I particulary enjoyed was the insta temporary ban of whoever started a nerf thread just for the sake of complaining, something the GW2 forum desperately needs given the current climate as the GW2 forum has devolved in just another typical MMO forum.

    Dear GW2 players...I have a simple question : if you ask to nerf that aspect of that profession, the very aspect that makes that profession a threat to the one you're playing...how exactly the nerfed profession will be able to compete against your profession afterward?

    Few examples here :
    -People ask to nerf pet damage , longbow damage , reduce multipliers , reduce boon application...then what the ranger supposed to do? how it can survive and kill your class?
    -People ask to nerf sword evades of weaver...now we have a low HP class at melee range with no other form of protection against aoe/range pressure other than some 2-3k healing
    -People ask to nerf blocks on guardian...how is the class supposed to survive pressure given its low HP?
    -People ask to nerf warrior sustain...how the class supposed to be played at melee range when its sustain is already mediocre in mediocre hands?

    Looking at thieves..I realize the scope of nerf threads......there is no scope other than knocking a profession out of viability

    Pettiness.....Hypocrisy.....Short sighted are the only words that come to mind whenever I read the GW2 pvp forum, it's truly a shame that the majority of players can't see anything outside the boundaries of their own ego

    The ONLY thing I want gone on thief, is being able to spike while invisible. Just like I want the engineers mini-form to be gone from their traits because having two rounds of that skill; Is ludicrous and I don't know why they are one of the only classes to have something like this? I think its kitten, and alot of other class's can't get out like that when kitten goes bad.

    Make it so when a thief goes to spike they are visible, they can't teleport spike and they can't continuously knock you up into the air anymore. Mainly because I think it's kind of lame that they are able to run around with perma-invisibility. Either its a build or the ones doing it are hacking; Im not sure I don't play thief but nothing annoys me more than someone on my team getting downed, and a thief going invis and no matter how much I do to reveal them it seems like they wont pop out of stealth.

    Inform yourself before posting, Engineers do not have two Elixirs S.

    Also please explain how is Thief continuously knocking anyone up in the Air and with what skills they do that continuous stuff.
    Second also, Mesmers spike from stealth for much higher dmg with much lower cooldown, if you gonna suggest such profession-breaking changes to Thief (eg: can't teleport spike), all while saying you don't play thief..
    , then don't leave out better, more powerful versions of it.

    kitten off, it happens all the time. A thief comes to spike and then suddenly for some reason the person they are spiking is being knocked in the air continueously; I straight said that it might be a hack. We all know many people hack in pvp and WvW the speed hack as well others have been exposed and nothing is being done about it. I never said it was directly linked to the class; It could be an over-arcing problem. Secondly Engineer has two Elixer S, one on trait when hitting the threshold and the other is one they actively can use.

    I've seen engineers go from small to normal back to small; They can spike while in this form which is kitten as well as thieves spiking from stealth. Deal with it, it's abuse just like invulnerability as a whole is a kitten thing to begin with in this game. Either make it so no one has it; Or everyone does so we can all enjoy the defensive's and such Im not for anyone having some hanky kitten they can pull. thieves also can disengage a target go stealth and reset the fight if it doesn't go their way; Which is bull either commit or don't. As someone who played assasin in guild wars 1, thief is a pathetic variant to try and keep that type of gameplay relevant in this game without giving them the tools. Im sorry if you stand up for this sort of kitten then you're part of the problem; The class has issues and honestly needs to be addressed im all for giving you more tools to stay in a fight. To be able to commit but to escape or kill someone from stealth, with no draw-back on your end is kitten.

    Stealth/Invulnerability is abused in this game; And it needs to be fixed. Perma-stealth should not be a thing, and this almost near perma-invulnerability spam needs to stop. It AGAIN might be hacks but to sit here and say it doesn't happen proves you're ignorant and don't know what the hell you're talking about. My guild and I see it all the time in WvW and I've seen it time and again in pvp. It will be addressed and thank god its happening now because its stupid; You should have to commit and play the game like everyone else.

    Side-note I don't agree with ANYONE having these tools, I think it shouldn't be a thing PERIOD. I think that the game would benefit if it were changed and it would force smarter; More intuitive plays on the part of the people who abuse it. Or they would quit, either way it would be a good thing as again I never meant to make it come off as me just attacking theieves. Messmers need it removed too, I don't agree with them killing or spiking in stealth either but then I agree with an even playing field for EVERYONE. Not just me, or my guild or my friends but everyone and I want this game to come down to skill and time played on the class not kitten abuse of mechanics from a dated age when guild wars 2 was trying to be a moba and not an mmo-rpg.

    People like you are the main issue of this game. People that know nothing about pvp and balance and still voice their useless stupidity.

    Mindless please, your drivel is no different than mine. You base it on your own personal expierences and skill level when the game is centered around casual play and casuals as a whole. I have no issue dealing with thieves or messmers; Sometimes I kill them and sometimes they kill me. I just disagree with the abuse of kitten mechanics which is used to kitten out of an ecounter that went poorly.

    Or Finish a fight without either A giving the person a chance to use their last stand (As pointless as it is, I mean it really is.) All I meant was you shouldn't be able to abuse Elixer S or invisability during a spike. You shouldn't be able to spike when in that state or spike when invulnerable; And that invulnerability is a cop out as a whole and shouldn't even be a thing. Again I have no issue fighting people with it because really it just means get away and knock them back when they are invulnerable, it's not hard really its not. But when someone downs you and then either teleport smash's you in your downed state or finishes you when they are invisible it feels cheap; I at least want to be able to see the one finishing me off and not just randomly die.

  • @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    kitten off, it happens all the time. A thief comes to spike and then suddenly for some reason the person they are spiking is being knocked in the air continueously; I straight said that it might be a hack.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Impact_Strike
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Uppercut_(Daredevil_skill)
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Finishing_Blow

    Onto the thread:
    This thread alone is a proof of OP's observation. We have replies advocating to nerf/eliminate shadowstep, teleport, stealth "defense", stealth attack (only for thief tho), stealth stomp, impact Strike elite. Then in other threads there's the call out for daredevil dodge nerf, vault (I agree in part for being too spammy), headshot, sword shadowstep, the evasion from pistol whip, malicious attacks from DE.
    I am all for thief having activate defenses instead of relying heavily on steath and ports but it is obvious anet won't go into that direction for the profession. DD brought a bit more of control with Bandit's Defense and the 3rd dodge, however that's pretty much it, thief still needs the ports and shadowsteps to be able to survive and avoid heavy damage considering it has no other damage mitigation. However, there's still people asking to nerf that too! Honestly I think at this point, some players simply got used to asking for nerfs to certain profession and will keep calling out regardless of the state of the balance. Until thief has no dodge, no vigor, no backstab, no stealth, no ports, no shadowsteps, no off hand weapon, no secondary weapon, no elite, no traits, a -33% speed, no short bow, no staff, no sword, no auto attack, I feel like some players will never be content.

  • Alatar.7364Alatar.7364 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 6, 2019

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    These issues are things people have brought up time and again, I don't know why you are surprised or acting like you know more than anyone else.

    I defnitely know more than you.
    The thing you are describing with Engi literally does not exist in the game how did you, by now, not even double check your false incorrect statements, also about the Thief thingy, it is exactly as I said, you were confusing it with Impact Strike. In the same sentece you say "spiking while knocking-up" and then you go like "Oh I didnt actually mean spiking and knocking-up" and completely underline it with your utter lack of knoweldge about the game by claming Engi has double Elixir S AND claiming it can do dmg during its duration AND AFTER THAT you ask me if I even play the game. I really believe it is people like you that got us the competee non-sense nerfs.

    ~ I Aear cân ven na mar

  • Griever.8150Griever.8150 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 7, 2019

    Comments about Thief in this thread are depressing. I guess you guys just aren't keen on the idea of classes. Thief already got nerfed to the point it hardly can 1v1 anything to safekeep its core features (mobility, stealth and spike damage is literally what makes a Thief a Thief).

    And people still complain about it.

    If you don't like the idea of classes being unique, maybe try a different kind of game? Because that's what people screaming for homogenization are asking. The removal of unique class features.

  • Paradoxoglanis.1904Paradoxoglanis.1904 Member ✭✭✭

    There will always be cries for nerfs when discussing a competitive gamemode in an mmo. Mmos are notorious for being nearly impossible to balance properly, and gw2 suffers more than most from this in pvp/wvw due to the complexity of combat and class skills/design. Yes, quite a lot of the complaints are just whining due to people not understanding their class role, expecting to win unfavorable matchups etc, but some are completely justified.

    The class design in gw2 is far from being balanced, and introducing elite specs and power creep continues to make things worse. Just comparing the kits of some classes goes to show how. For example, take a look at holo, they can fill the role of +1, team fighter, duelist, bunker, and they have access to stealth, mobility, lots of cc, and strong cleave skills. Now look at weaver. They are funneled mostly into 1 role, s/d bunker, and arguably arent nearly as effective as other bunker builds. The meta classes fall into this category of being able to completely outperform other classes/specs at their respective roles, leaving the majority of classes feeling weak to near useless. Other examples would be how power shiro is still the best +1 spec, and is able to counter most of the other +1 specs, or how FB is undoubtedly the strongest group support.

    Regarding thieves, their class by design is nearly impossible to balance since they are built around stealth, exceptional mobility, and burst damage, which can be difficult to fight against even for highly skilled players. Even when their skills are nerfed and reworked to the point where all but the best players can play them competitively, they can still seem overpowered because of their kit. The same reasoning applies to mesmer, and how their skill kit still seems overpowered despite all the nerfs they have received.

  • Crinn.7864Crinn.7864 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Markri.9475 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:
    Looking at thieves..I realize the scope of nerf threads......there is no scope other than knocking a profession out of viability

    What do you mean ? Are thieves creating too many nerf threads?

    No thieves keep stealing all the nerf threads.

    Sanity is for the weak minded
    YouTube

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    other classes got buffed more then teef got nerfed. pls stop with this victim mentality. its pof power creep that's the real culprit.

    you don't know till you know, ya know.

  • @Crinn.7864 said:

    @Markri.9475 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:
    Looking at thieves..I realize the scope of nerf threads......there is no scope other than knocking a profession out of viability

    What do you mean ? Are thieves creating too many nerf threads?

    No thieves keep stealing all the nerf threads.

    That's funny on several levels.

    stirs tea

    [Charr Noises]
    [Plays every class]
    [JUST GIT EVEN GUDDER ITS FINE]

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    These issues are things people have brought up time and again, I don't know why you are surprised or acting like you know more than anyone else.

    I defnitely know more than you.
    The thing you are describing with Engi literally does not exist in the game how did you, by now, not even double check your false incorrect statements, also about the Thief thingy, it is exactly as I said, you were confusing it with Impact Strike. In the same sentece you say "spiking while knocking-up" and then you go like "Oh I didnt actually mean spiking and knocking-up" and completely underline it with your utter lack of knoweldge about the game by claming Engi has double Elixir S AND claiming it can do dmg during its duration AND AFTER THAT you ask me if I even play the game. I really believe it is people like you that got us the competee non-sense nerfs.

    Perhaps as I said, numerous times that it might be a hack? I legitimately state numerous times through out that Im not sure if it is completely labled to the class itself. A-nets lack of willingness to ban hacking kitten-holes kind of leads us to this area where when one does not PLAY a class because it does not suite nor interest them they may associate it with that class explicitly. Which Again I stated that it may or may not be the class itself; I honestly Don't get why you don't feel I know anything but thats fair I suppose everyone can have their own perception. Regardless I stand by what I said NO ONE should be able to spike someone in stealth, go invunerable or be able to dip out of an encounter by stealthing and running away.

    Once you're in combat you should be committed, this goes for all classes in the game and shouldn't be limited to thief alone. I feel thief gets alot of the Ire because people want a scape goat when warrior, messmer and engie are right there doing similar shenanigans. Do I want it nerfed into the ground? No. I don't because I don't want any class to not be playable or accepted; I want to see all classes shine but I don't want it to come at the expense of the enjoyment for all who play. I don't care when I loose a fair fight, often im happy I got a good fight because it's fun. So Excuse me for not knowing the difference between a skill, to your point I made a big oof and when and looked it up for myself. There is no trait and you are correct; That is a fallacy on my part for believing it wasn't hacking, which undoubtedly it probably can be chalked up to that so I suppose that's again a notch toward the point I made prior.

    Hacking is abundant right now and Im sure alot of people see someone doing something and think "That class is broken", when in reality the backdoor is wide open and the only people they ban are the ones saying they are doing it. We haven't seen them crack down or close the back door even though its in the terms of service and like I said prior; I hope they do. I don't agree that the thief SHOULD BE limited to a stealth, leap in and do what you can then run away and hide because it may not have worked class because its forefather the Assassin in guild wars 1 was anything but that. I feel it should be an underhanded fighter, brawler almost who is excellent at melee combat base wise and poor at range. Then you have dead-eye to change that for you, Daredevil to change how it works and gives you more tools that function in a different way to what you'd normally find.

    Im sorry if you assumed I meant destroy it, or do some none-sense nerf where it makes it un-viable because I wouldn't dream of that. I remember when other classes suffered like that and I wouldn't want anyone to go through it. I just want them to stop allowing or I should say pigeon holing thieves into stealth, messmers into stupid broken shenanigans or nothing at all and warriors into abusing invulnerability. I want a fair fight at least in the face of pvp; I want to enjoy fighting my enemy and if they kill me I know its because they are better not because some weird kitten happened. I've had people down and suddenly they are back up, we are completely alone so no way to rally and I got them dead to rights and they get up and then one shot me. That is hacking I know.

    I have had thieves dead to rights, then they teleport go stealth and are gone and all I Can think is "Well great, he ran. Because he didn't account that I was prepared for it and wanted him to try and commit." It kind of makes for rough plays and it makes the inevitability of feeling kitten because rather than just allowing the fight to play out; You have people who will abuse a mechanic that has been an issue since launch and just continue its kitten.

  • TorQ.7041TorQ.7041 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 7, 2019

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    kitten off, it happens all the time. A thief comes to spike and then suddenly for some reason the person they are spiking is being knocked in the air continueously; I straight said that it might be a hack

    It can't, Hacks in Gw can be only speed/movement related. Also I have played PvP for years and I have never during that time seen happen what you describe. I am pretty sure you are confusing Impact Strike which is an Elite and it knocks-up only once with a CD of 40 seconds in its dmg is hardly anywhere near "spike dmg".

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    Secondly Engineer has two Elixer S, one on trait when hitting the threshold and the other is one they actively can use.

    No they don't. What is the last time you played Engineer... or PvP?

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    I've seen engineers go from small to normal back to small; They can spike while in this form which is kitten as well as thieves spiking from stealth.

    No they can't and never could, the hell? Are you even playing this game?

    I believe the skill he's referring to is called palm strike. Which if landed successfully can do double knock downs. And a finishing blow that insta kills. But it's pretty difficult to land. Almost always every one uses dagger storm over it.

    This guy clearly knows nothing about thieves want to comment cos he died by one.

  • Alatar.7364Alatar.7364 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 7, 2019

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    Perhaps as I said, numerous times that it might be a hack?

    Nope, you explicitly and very much literally said Engi has it as a trait and as a utility skill, never called it a hack only in regards to Thief, please stop trying to lie your way out of the fact that you just accused two professions of being broken based on stuff that A ) Doesn't exist in game, B ) Can not be hacked, because all game-related computing is done on Anets servers except movement, so only movement hacks exist.

    ~ I Aear cân ven na mar

  • Alatar.7364Alatar.7364 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 7, 2019

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    kitten off, it happens all the time. A thief comes to spike and then suddenly for some reason the person they are spiking is being knocked in the air continueously; I straight said that it might be a hack

    It can't, Hacks in Gw can be only speed/movement related. Also I have played PvP for years and I have never during that time seen happen what you describe. I am pretty sure you are confusing Impact Strike which is an Elite and it knocks-up only once with a CD of 40 seconds in its dmg is hardly anywhere near "spike dmg".

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    Secondly Engineer has two Elixer S, one on trait when hitting the threshold and the other is one they actively can use.

    No they don't. What is the last time you played Engineer... or PvP?

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    I've seen engineers go from small to normal back to small; They can spike while in this form which is kitten as well as thieves spiking from stealth.

    No they can't and never could, the hell? Are you even playing this game?

    I believe the skill he's referring to is called palm strike. Which if landed successfully can do double knock downs. And a finishing blow that insta kills. But it's pretty difficult to land. Almost always every one uses dagger storm over it.

    This guy clearly knows nothing about thieves want to comment cos he died by one.

    Palm Strike Doesn't knock down, and since you are referring to it as "everyone uses dagger storm over it", then I believe you too are confusing it with Impact Strike chain skill as does the other person.

    ~ I Aear cân ven na mar

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