Jump to content
  • Sign Up

So when we gonna change the mounts?


reddie.5861

Recommended Posts

Been long enough that they are immune to CC and way to fast for any1 to catch up beside pure burst classes who can tackle em down..

its just lame then majority of classes cant dismount them, and no given us a shitty skill to dismount people when we are mounted our self wont help at all.. u have people who didnt bought hot (yes majority has it but w/e) they to need be able to dismount em..

i mean i play pretty much all classes but on certain classes i just get trolled till they feel secure enough to dismount (when their buddies came obviously) im playing a DD ele from time to time i have absolutely no idea how to dismount a mount on this build even if HP is lowered so its just lame if u ask me.

in my eyes mounts adds speed to people give these people who want to use speed also a risk to it..lower the freaking HP to the point that any1 can 1 shot dismount..u wanted to run fast to your blob face it if u find enemy and ur gamblin on fact that u can run past him that u can just die for taking this risk.

right now being on warclaw is no risk at all i mean for me its just extra 10k HP when im on my thief u know how lovely this is when u facing a blob? i can just dodge dodge dodge / dismount dodge dodge amazing! i even run tru necro marks for fuck off it cus i got CC immunity anyway so i might aswell clear em, and if enemy try to do something ima just dodge and dodge and dodge again and hooray im save again..

and top of all the above, the mount is horrible bugged.when i see my self next to players who are dodging it says its out of range while im on top of them.again so far this mount hasnt added anything positive to WvW.

some nerfs to mount should take less then a minute to do for devs why not just fix it.HP down to 500 or 1000Dodges down to 1 or 2CC immunity remove it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 144
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

If Anet gives in to all your requests, and i bet more to come from you gankers, the Warclaw is not a mount anymore. The project failed. It did not served its intended purpose.

You want to disable it so badly that the mount becomes another speed boon. No wait, worse than a boon. Swiftness is instant cast, now, thanks to you guys, Warclaw has a 3 sec delay for mounting again.

If you want Warclaw to be removed, just say it like those haters. See what is happeneing ANet? The more you obliged, the more the demands will come in and getting absurd too... Is TC not aware that a jump from a high mound or a drop from a mid-height cliff already caused at least 2 k to 5 k of damage on the mount and you want only 500 hp? And CC 'able? Really? :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Mil.3562 said:If Anet gives in to all your requests, and i bet more to come from you gankers, the Warclaw is not a mount anymore. The project failed. It did not served its intended purpose.

You want to disable it so badly that the mount becomes another speed boon. No wait, worse than a boon. Swiftness is instant cast, now, thanks to you guys, Warclaw has a 3 sec delay for mounting again.

If you want Warclaw to be removed, just say it like those haters. See what is happeneing ANet? The more you obliged, the more the demands will come in and getting absurd too... Is TC not aware that a jump from a high mound or a drop from a mid-height cliff already caused at least 2 k to 5 k of damage on the mount and you want only 500 hp? And CC 'able? Really? :D

Uhm hello, what you think doesn't matter to game balance and design. It is supposed to be another speed boon, not free passage, that would be stupid in an open world PvP mode.

Dodges to 2 movespeed to OOC swiftness would be enough/the perfect changes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@reddie.5861 said:Been long enough that they are immune to CC and way to fast for any1 to catch up beside pure burst classes who can tackle em down..

some nerfs to mount should take less then a minute to do for devs why not just fix it.HP down to 500 or 1000Dodges down to 1 or 2CC immunity remove it.

This is (almost) what I want from the War Cat. The only thing I can add here is the adjustment to speed. In your territory the Cat should have the speed of a normal player. In the enemy territory it should have the speed of a player in combat. The number of dodges should be 0 (zero) at start. ONE dodge should be the result of investing some mastery points in the War Cat training.

A very good risk wersus the reward of riding the mount may be the insta deadh when you are dismounted by attacks. Something like what happens now when you jump with the mount from very high cliffs.

@Mil.3562 said:If Anet gives in to all your requests, and i bet more to come from you gankers, the Warclaw is not a mount anymore. The project failed. It did not served its intended purpose.

You want to disable it so badly that the mount becomes another speed boon. No wait, worse than a boon. Swiftness is instant cast, now, thanks to you guys, Warclaw has a 3 sec delay for mounting again.

If you want Warclaw to be removed, just say it like those haters. See what is happeneing ANet? The more you obliged, the more the demands will come in and getting absurd too... Is TC not aware that a jump from a high mound or a drop from a mid-height cliff already caused at least 2 k to 5 k of damage on the mount and you want only 500 hp? And CC 'able? Really? :D

If I remember well, when the mount requests first started for WvW, the players asked something with a dolyak speed, having the attack strenght of a sleeping quagan. All the requests were for a different way of traveling. Not faster, not something making you stronger, but a different way of traveling.

If Anet listened to this part of the player bases, it is now the time to see what they exactly demanded and to give them exactly the desired mount (without health, without dodges, without any attack ability, with a normal player speed). Because, indeed, the project failed and it is not serving any purpose.

Just my opinion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Cristalyan.5728 said:

@reddie.5861 said:Been long enough that they are immune to CC and way to fast for any1 to catch up beside pure burst classes who can tackle em down..

some nerfs to mount should take less then a minute to do for devs why not just fix it.HP down to 500 or 1000Dodges down to 1 or 2CC immunity remove it.

This is (almost) what I want from the War Cat. The only thing I can add here is the adjustment to speed. In your territory the Cat should have the speed of a normal player. In the enemy territory it should have the speed of a player in combat. The number of dodges should be 0 (zero) at start. ONE dodge should be the result of investing some mastery points in the War Cat training.I realize you're arguing in bad faith, but what the hell would even be the point of it then? If you want it removed completely, have the balls to say that outright instead of trying to be sneaky about it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In my opinion one of the things the Warclaw really needs is a breakbar, because CC immunity is absolutely broken and when paired with 3 dodges and an extra 11k hp bar it takes away all risk from running into enemy players.

But also there is this other issue I have with it. From a roamer/scout perspective, the warclaw normalizes mobility across all classes, which is a relative nerf to high mobility classes and a relative buff to low mobility ones. In other words, immobile classes like necro can now enjoy the same mobility as a thief when moving between objectives with no tradeoffs at all, which in my opinion is wrong and should be balanced in some way.

As a solution to this problem I propose that each class should have its own Warclaw utility skill related to the class identity. For example, a thief would get a short stealth skill (that ends on dismount and doesn't cause revealed because we don't want to break thieves even more), a mesmer would get a blink, a warrior would get a block, and so on.

... if that sounds too complicated then just nerf the Warclaw movespeed and tankyness to the point where you actually have a choice to make when playing a roamer class: do I want to be lazy and have this easy constant movespeed buff or do I want to use my class to its full potential to move around the map quicker?

Edit: I forgot to mention this. I like the idea behind the 5s cd on the mount, but I feel it was badly implemented. Out of combat, the only thing this achieves is to annoy the player (rip dismount > blink > remount combo), while in combat most fights last more than 5s so it doesn't really matter anyways. If you manage to reset you're ready to mount and escape (or if you're ganking someone you can just have one person keep the victim in combat while the rest mounts up to catch them and secure the kill). I'd rather have the mount be on permanent CD during combat and then have the 5s tick down once you get ooc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Hyper Cutter.9376 said:

@"reddie.5861" said:Been long enough that they are immune to CC and way to fast for any1 to catch up beside pure burst classes who can tackle em down..

some nerfs to mount should take less then a minute to do for devs why not just fix it.HP down to 500 or 1000Dodges down to 1 or 2CC immunity remove it.

This is (almost) what I want from the War Cat. The only thing I can add here is the adjustment to speed. In your territory the Cat should have the speed of a normal player. In the enemy territory it should have the speed of a player in combat. The number of dodges should be 0 (zero) at start. ONE dodge should be the result of investing some mastery points in the War Cat training.I realize you're arguing in bad faith, but what the hell would even be the point of it then? If you want it removed completely, have the balls to say that outright instead of trying to be sneaky about it.

The mount should stay. As it was requested initially: without extra speed, without any attack, without HP. As a different way of traveling. It should stay to remember us (and ANet) how bad is to listen to ... vocal PvE players and how hard (and how much time and effort is needed) is to correct such mistake. War Cat should be a living evidence that adding "toys" without focusing on the real problems of the WvW will not solve the painful state of this game mode.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Hyper Cutter.9376 said:

@reddie.5861 said:Been long enough that they are immune to CC and way to fast for any1 to catch up beside pure burst classes who can tackle em down..

some nerfs to mount should take less then a minute to do for devs why not just fix it.HP down to 500 or 1000Dodges down to 1 or 2CC immunity remove it.

This is (almost) what I want from the War Cat. The only thing I can add here is the adjustment to speed. In your territory the Cat should have the speed of a normal player. In the enemy territory it should have the speed of a player in combat. The number of dodges should be 0 (zero) at start. ONE dodge should be the result of investing some mastery points in the War Cat training.I realize you're arguing in bad faith, but what the hell would even be the point of it then? If you want it removed completely, have the balls to say that outright instead of trying to be sneaky about it.

OOC swiftness speed everywhere and 2 dodges sounds fair to me, the speed changes they propossed sound even to me a bit ridiculous.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Creaitov.6328 said:

But also there is this other issue I have with it. From a roamer/scout perspective, the warclaw normalizes mobility across all classes, which is a relative nerf to high mobility classes and a relative buff to low mobility ones. In other words, immobile classes like necro can now enjoy the same mobility as a thief when moving between objectives with no tradeoffs at all, which in my opinion is wrong and should be balanced in some way.

How is it a nerf if said professions can use it as well. All it does is increase profession diversity by granting everyone equal mobility. As soon as combat begins, every profession suffers the same weaknesses and enjoys the same strengths they always have.

I'm sorry that every profession now has the option to decide what fights it wants to take and what ones it doesn't. Unlike before mounts when only a select few had that option while the rest meant suicide.

On second thought, I'm not sorry.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

But also there is this other issue I have with it. From a roamer/scout perspective, the warclaw normalizes mobility across all classes, which is a relative nerf to high mobility classes and a relative buff to low mobility ones. In other words, immobile classes like necro can now enjoy the same mobility as a thief when moving between objectives with no tradeoffs at all, which in my opinion is wrong and should be balanced in some way.

How is it a nerf if said professions can use it as well. All it does is increase profession diversity by granting everyone equal mobility. As soon as combat begins, every profession suffers the same weaknesses and enjoys the same strengths they always have.

I'm sorry that every profession now has the option to decide what fights it wants to take and what ones it doesn't. Unlike before mounts when only a select few had that option while the rest meant suicide.

On second thought, I'm not sorry.

Read what I said again. It is a relative nerf, because the addition of the warclaw is a buff to some classes in the mobility aspect while others get no benefit because they were already pretty mobile in the first place.

For the second part, that wasn't really my point but I'll answer anyways. WvW is a game mode that features open world PvP which means you have to be ready for anything. Sure, highly mobile classes can decide which fights they want to take but that is because its one of the benefits of trading combat capabilities for mobility. I'm sorry you're so bitter about it.

And btw, the warclaw does nothing to prevent ganking. If a group catches you, the warclaw makes it pretty much guaranteed you're dead unless you're close to a building/big blob lol. If you try to escape the gankers only need 1 person to keep you in combat while the rest mount up and catch up to you, with the added benefit of finishing you instantly so there is absolutely no chance someone can save you :^)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Creaitov.6328 said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

But also there is this other issue I have with it. From a roamer/scout perspective, the warclaw normalizes mobility across all classes, which is a relative nerf to high mobility classes and a relative buff to low mobility ones. In other words, immobile classes like necro can now enjoy the same mobility as a thief when moving between objectives with no tradeoffs at all, which in my opinion is wrong and should be balanced in some way.

How is it a nerf if said professions can use it as well. All it does is increase profession diversity by granting everyone equal mobility. As soon as combat begins, every profession suffers the same weaknesses and enjoys the same strengths they always have.

I'm sorry that every profession now has the option to decide what fights it wants to take and what ones it doesn't. Unlike before mounts when only a select few had that option while the rest meant suicide.

On second thought, I'm not sorry.

Read what I said again. It is a
relative
nerf, because the addition of the warclaw is a buff to some classes in the mobility aspect while others get no benefit because they were already pretty mobile in the first place.

For the second part, that wasn't really my point but I'll answer anyways. WvW is a game mode that features open world PvP which means you have to be ready for anything. Sure, highly mobile classes can decide which fights they want to take but that is because its one of the benefits of trading combat capabilities for mobility. I'm sorry you're so bitter about it.

And btw, the warclaw does nothing to prevent ganking. If a group catches you, the warclaw makes it pretty much guaranteed you're dead unless you're close to a building/big blob lol. If you try to escape the gankers only need 1 person to keep you in combat while the rest mount up and catch up to you, with the added benefit of finishing you instantly so there is absolutely no chance someone can save you :^)

The trade-off of combat capability for mobility is nice in theory, but in practice you usually do not trade off anything. The classes with high mobility are usually the ones with the superior combat ability in small scale. Let's be serious, it doesn't matter that a scourge can go a bit quicker out of combat now. As soon as engagement begins the roaming class will shred the scourge in seconds. This will become even more apparent when Anet adds the dismount skill. You also still get to keep that mobility that you invested in when you are in combat, which is still a huge advantage. It allows you to pursue target easier while in combat, counter kiting or straight up flee, while the low mobility classes still do not have these options.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Cristalyan.5728 said:

@reddie.5861 said:Been long enough that they are immune to CC and way to fast for any1 to catch up beside pure burst classes who can tackle em down..

some nerfs to mount should take less then a minute to do for devs why not just fix it.HP down to 500 or 1000Dodges down to 1 or 2CC immunity remove it.

This is (almost) what I want from the War Cat. The only thing I can add here is the adjustment to speed. In your territory the Cat should have the speed of a normal player. In the enemy territory it should have the speed of a player in combat. The number of dodges should be 0 (zero) at start. ONE dodge should be the result of investing some mastery points in the War Cat training.

A very good risk wersus the reward of riding the mount may be the insta deadh when you are dismounted by attacks. Something like what happens now when you jump with the mount from very high cliffs.

@Mil.3562 said:If Anet gives in to all your requests, and i bet more to come from you gankers, the Warclaw is not a mount anymore.
The project failed. It did not served its intended purpose.

You want to disable it so badly that the mount becomes another speed boon. No wait, worse than a boon. Swiftness is instant cast, now, thanks to you guys, Warclaw has a 3 sec delay for mounting again.

If you want Warclaw to be removed, just say it like those haters. See what is happeneing ANet? The more you obliged, the more the demands will come in and getting absurd too... Is TC not aware that a jump from a high mound or a drop from a mid-height cliff already caused at least 2 k to 5 k of damage on the mount and you want only 500 hp? And CC 'able? Really? :D

If I remember well, when the mount requests first started for WvW, the players asked something with a dolyak speed, having the attack strenght of a sleeping quagan. All the requests were for a different way of traveling. Not faster, not something making you stronger, but a different way of traveling.

If Anet listened to this part of the player bases, it is now the time to see what they exactly demanded and to give them exactly the desired mount (without health, without dodges, without any attack ability, with a normal player speed). Because, indeed, the project failed and it is not serving any purpose.

Just my opinion.

I always hated WvW because so much time is wasted simply walking around on foot. The warclaw makes this game mode much more enjoyable, so whereas before I avoided WvW like the plague, now it's pretty much all I do. No purpose? I disagree.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Ganathar.4956 said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

But also there is this other issue I have with it. From a roamer/scout perspective, the warclaw normalizes mobility across all classes, which is a relative nerf to high mobility classes and a relative buff to low mobility ones. In other words, immobile classes like necro can now enjoy the same mobility as a thief when moving between objectives with no tradeoffs at all, which in my opinion is wrong and should be balanced in some way.

How is it a nerf if said professions can use it as well. All it does is increase profession diversity by granting everyone equal mobility. As soon as combat begins, every profession suffers the same weaknesses and enjoys the same strengths they always have.

I'm sorry that every profession now has the option to decide what fights it wants to take and what ones it doesn't. Unlike before mounts when only a select few had that option while the rest meant suicide.

On second thought, I'm not sorry.

Read what I said again. It is a
relative
nerf, because the addition of the warclaw is a buff to some classes in the mobility aspect while others get no benefit because they were already pretty mobile in the first place.

For the second part, that wasn't really my point but I'll answer anyways. WvW is a game mode that features open world PvP which means you have to be ready for anything. Sure, highly mobile classes can decide which fights they want to take but that is because its one of the benefits of trading combat capabilities for mobility. I'm sorry you're so bitter about it.

And btw, the warclaw does nothing to prevent ganking. If a group catches you, the warclaw makes it pretty much guaranteed you're dead unless you're close to a building/big blob lol. If you try to escape the gankers only need 1 person to keep you in combat while the rest mount up and catch up to you, with the added benefit of finishing you instantly so there is absolutely no chance someone can save you :^)

The trade-off of combat capability for mobility is nice in theory, but in practice you usually do not trade off anything. The classes with high mobility are usually the ones with the superior combat ability in small scale. Let's be serious, it doesn't matter that a scourge can go a bit quicker out of combat now. As soon as engagement begins the roaming class will shred the scourge in seconds. This will become even more apparent when Anet adds the dismount skill. You also still get to keep that mobility that you invested in when you are in combat, which is still a huge advantage. It allows you to pursue target easier while in combat, counter kiting or straight up flee, while the low mobility classes still do not have these options.

You make good points there. I agree that mobility can be used in small scale combat with moderate success, but as the fight scales up it becomes more and more useless and in the post-warclaw roaming being a mobile class doesn't really help you as I said before.

I think that I didn't express my main issue correctly, which is the roamer/scout part. Before the warclaw, the first ones to get to an objective used to be the high mobility classes. Be it for flipping a camp, defending an objective, or maybe just to scout and see if the swords at the keep are just a tap or a real attack. As it stands now, by making everyone have the same mobility you're taking this away from roaming classes, and since we touched at the mobility = combat ability topic, now that everyone can move through the map pretty fast these small scale fights you're talking about turn into not so small fights pretty quickly, rendering this mobility advantage useless unless you're fleeing, in which case you're pretty much useless for your team lol.

Because lets be honest, if you know you have 5 people incoming to take a camp and you're trying to defend it, which classes would you rather come to your aid? Considering that all the classes take the same time to get there now with the warclaw there is no point to being a mobile class. Before the warclaw mobile classes at least had the benefit of being able to arrive early to help compared to slower classes. On the other side, if you switch this around and now you're a group of 5 trying to take a camp, which classes would you rather have? Before the warclaw mobile classes had the benefit of being able to flip an objective before the enemy could get there to defend it, but now you might as well just grab a FB, a scourge and a couple engies and call it a day.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Creaitov.6328 said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

But also there is this other issue I have with it. From a roamer/scout perspective, the warclaw normalizes mobility across all classes, which is a relative nerf to high mobility classes and a relative buff to low mobility ones. In other words, immobile classes like necro can now enjoy the same mobility as a thief when moving between objectives with no tradeoffs at all, which in my opinion is wrong and should be balanced in some way.

How is it a nerf if said professions can use it as well. All it does is increase profession diversity by granting everyone equal mobility. As soon as combat begins, every profession suffers the same weaknesses and enjoys the same strengths they always have.

I'm sorry that every profession now has the option to decide what fights it wants to take and what ones it doesn't. Unlike before mounts when only a select few had that option while the rest meant suicide.

On second thought, I'm not sorry.

Read what I said again. It is a
relative
nerf, because the addition of the warclaw is a buff to some classes in the mobility aspect while others get no benefit because they were already pretty mobile in the first place.

For the second part, that wasn't really my point but I'll answer anyways. WvW is a game mode that features open world PvP which means you have to be ready for anything. Sure, highly mobile classes can decide which fights they want to take but that is because its one of the benefits of trading combat capabilities for mobility. I'm sorry you're so bitter about it.

And btw, the warclaw does nothing to prevent ganking. If a group catches you, the warclaw makes it pretty much guaranteed you're dead unless you're close to a building/big blob lol. If you try to escape the gankers only need 1 person to keep you in combat while the rest mount up and catch up to you, with the added benefit of finishing you instantly so there is absolutely no chance someone can save you :^)

The trade-off of combat capability for mobility is nice in theory, but in practice you usually do not trade off anything. The classes with high mobility are usually the ones with the superior combat ability in small scale. Let's be serious, it doesn't matter that a scourge can go a bit quicker out of combat now. As soon as engagement begins the roaming class will shred the scourge in seconds. This will become even more apparent when Anet adds the dismount skill. You also still get to keep that mobility that you invested in when you are in combat, which is still a huge advantage. It allows you to pursue target easier while in combat, counter kiting or straight up flee, while the low mobility classes still do not have these options.

You make good points there. I agree that mobility can be used in small scale combat with moderate success, but as the fight scales up it becomes more and more useless and in the post-warclaw roaming being a mobile class doesn't really help you as I said before.

I think that I didn't express my main issue correctly, which is the roamer/scout part. Before the warclaw, the first ones to get to an objective used to be the high mobility classes. Be it for flipping a camp, defending an objective, or maybe just to scout and see if the swords at the keep are just a tap or a real attack. As it stands now, by making everyone have the same mobility you're taking this away from roaming classes, and since we touched at the mobility = combat ability topic, now that everyone can move through the map pretty fast these small scale fights you're talking about turn into not so small fights pretty quickly, rendering this mobility advantage useless unless you're fleeing, in which case you're pretty much useless for your team lol.

Because lets be honest, if you know you have 5 people incoming to take a camp and you're trying to defend it, which classes would you rather come to your aid? Considering that all the classes take the same time to get there now with the warclaw there is no point to being a mobile class. Before the warclaw mobile classes at least had the benefit of being able to arrive early to help compared to slower classes. On the other side, if you switch this around and now you're a group of 5 trying to take a camp, which classes would you rather have? Before the warclaw mobile classes had the benefit of being able to flip an objective before the enemy could get there to defend it, but now you might as well just grab a FB, a scourge and a couple engies and call it a day.

If trying to intercept 5 people, I know I'd still rather have good roamers come and help me instead of that mindless zerg necro going "imma bomb these guys easy wait they dodge I'm dying where are mah heals and cleanses reeeeeezzzzzz?!?!?"

Roaming was never just your mobility. Proper roaming is smarter than that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Creaitov.6328 said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

But also there is this other issue I have with it. From a roamer/scout perspective, the warclaw normalizes mobility across all classes, which is a relative nerf to high mobility classes and a relative buff to low mobility ones. In other words, immobile classes like necro can now enjoy the same mobility as a thief when moving between objectives with no tradeoffs at all, which in my opinion is wrong and should be balanced in some way.

How is it a nerf if said professions can use it as well. All it does is increase profession diversity by granting everyone equal mobility. As soon as combat begins, every profession suffers the same weaknesses and enjoys the same strengths they always have.

I'm sorry that every profession now has the option to decide what fights it wants to take and what ones it doesn't. Unlike before mounts when only a select few had that option while the rest meant suicide.

On second thought, I'm not sorry.

Read what I said again. It is a
relative
nerf, because the addition of the warclaw is a buff to some classes in the mobility aspect while others get no benefit because they were already pretty mobile in the first place.

For the second part, that wasn't really my point but I'll answer anyways. WvW is a game mode that features open world PvP which means you have to be ready for anything. Sure, highly mobile classes can decide which fights they want to take but that is because its one of the benefits of trading combat capabilities for mobility. I'm sorry you're so bitter about it.

And btw, the warclaw does nothing to prevent ganking. If a group catches you, the warclaw makes it pretty much guaranteed you're dead unless you're close to a building/big blob lol. If you try to escape the gankers only need 1 person to keep you in combat while the rest mount up and catch up to you, with the added benefit of finishing you instantly so there is absolutely no chance someone can save you :^)

The trade-off of combat capability for mobility is nice in theory, but in practice you usually do not trade off anything. The classes with high mobility are usually the ones with the superior combat ability in small scale. Let's be serious, it doesn't matter that a scourge can go a bit quicker out of combat now. As soon as engagement begins the roaming class will shred the scourge in seconds. This will become even more apparent when Anet adds the dismount skill. You also still get to keep that mobility that you invested in when you are in combat, which is still a huge advantage. It allows you to pursue target easier while in combat, counter kiting or straight up flee, while the low mobility classes still do not have these options.

You make good points there. I agree that mobility can be used in small scale combat with moderate success, but as the fight scales up it becomes more and more useless and in the post-warclaw roaming being a mobile class doesn't really help you as I said before.

I think that I didn't express my main issue correctly, which is the roamer/scout part. Before the warclaw, the first ones to get to an objective used to be the high mobility classes. Be it for flipping a camp, defending an objective, or maybe just to scout and see if the swords at the keep are just a tap or a real attack. As it stands now, by making everyone have the same mobility you're taking this away from roaming classes, and since we touched at the mobility = combat ability topic, now that everyone can move through the map pretty fast these small scale fights you're talking about turn into not so small fights pretty quickly, rendering this mobility advantage useless unless you're fleeing, in which case you're pretty much useless for your team lol.

Because lets be honest, if you know you have 5 people incoming to take a camp and you're trying to defend it, which classes would you rather come to your aid? Considering that all the classes take the same time to get there now with the warclaw there is no point to being a mobile class. Before the warclaw mobile classes at least had the benefit of being able to arrive early to help compared to slower classes. On the other side, if you switch this around and now you're a group of 5 trying to take a camp, which classes would you rather have? Before the warclaw mobile classes had the benefit of being able to flip an objective before the enemy could get there to defend it, but now you might as well just grab a FB, a scourge and a couple engies and call it a day.

I think the issue with mounts is the inability to stop them. Until mounts can be CC'd, they'll be problematic. I disagree completely that this has anything to do with professions. Every profession that makes a good roamer still has that strength. They even have a better chance at dismounting players than ones that are objectively worse roamers. Prior to mounts, if a Firebrand and a Scourge didn't want to take a particular fight (perhaps because the numbers were against them) they had to take it anyway. Now, they can choose not to. Although this promotes passive gameplay, it has nothing to do with professions. As soon as combat begins, the ones with greater mobility and better tools to dispatch lesser equipped professions/builds will have the upper hand. If mounts could be CC'd, roaming would essentially revert to what it was before, albeit a little faster paced.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You want them to just throw out stuff outside of patch cycle? We know a dismount skill is coming, that is all we need. How fast the mount is really doesn't matter. It should be faster than OOC swiftness, that's just salt speaking if you want it changed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are inherent problems with the mount.

  1. Immune to CC (by far one of the biggest problems)
  2. 10k Hp Buffer (there is no need for an hp buffer, if anything allow to buffer/absorb only 1 hit from anything before getting dismounted) When this is changed, mounts can be reverted to contest points as they will not really present a problem any longer)
  3. 3 dodges (this needs to be set to 1 by default, and with a max of 2 when traited in mastery. Not 3)
  4. Able to get into towers/keeps via terrain (this will be a constant problem with no fix until they patch the way dismount works - I rather they don't mutilate terrain visually)
  5. Able to easily perma contest keeps, no need for stealth (just run up to a keep and laugh as the guards do nothing to you while you contest. Quickly make your exit and return in 2-3m to rinse and repeat).
  6. Skill 1 is still very buggy, sometimes it will go off cooldown and you cannot dismount due to anything like small bumps etc that put the skill on cooldown and you have to use your mount/dismount key that you set in hotkeys
  7. One of the other bigger problems NO ONE ever brings up about mounts are one shots using mounts. Yes, one shots using mounts. Many classes can do this, here is one example, you will see it being used a few times in this video:

There was also another video of a thief using it but the video was deleted already, as you can guess it was done via assassin signet etc. This is not something exclusive to thief or soulbeast, just use your imagination and you'll know that other classes can do it as well. Even though the video I have shown here is during NDS week, it was always possible to do so since the release of the mount and not once has it ever been brought up. [Please do not bring up OPness of sbeast, that is for another thread that you can post this video to].

There is a lot of work that needs to be done on the warclaw still, no bones about it.The only thing I can agree with the usage of the mount for now, is only speed set to perma swiftness speed of what a player can achieve with their class in any territory. Sniff is actually alright and quite balanced, I use this skill quite often. The chain pull should be repurposed into the dismount skill , and skill 1 should be kept as the stomp. There still needs to be methods for melee users and also non-pof owners to dismount mounts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

But also there is this other issue I have with it. From a roamer/scout perspective, the warclaw normalizes mobility across all classes, which is a relative nerf to high mobility classes and a relative buff to low mobility ones. In other words, immobile classes like necro can now enjoy the same mobility as a thief when moving between objectives with no tradeoffs at all, which in my opinion is wrong and should be balanced in some way.

How is it a nerf if said professions can use it as well. All it does is increase profession diversity by granting everyone equal mobility. As soon as combat begins, every profession suffers the same weaknesses and enjoys the same strengths they always have.

I'm sorry that every profession now has the option to decide what fights it wants to take and what ones it doesn't. Unlike before mounts when only a select few had that option while the rest meant suicide.

On second thought, I'm not sorry.

Read what I said again. It is a
relative
nerf, because the addition of the warclaw is a buff to some classes in the mobility aspect while others get no benefit because they were already pretty mobile in the first place.

For the second part, that wasn't really my point but I'll answer anyways. WvW is a game mode that features open world PvP which means you have to be ready for anything. Sure, highly mobile classes can decide which fights they want to take but that is because its one of the benefits of trading combat capabilities for mobility. I'm sorry you're so bitter about it.

And btw, the warclaw does nothing to prevent ganking. If a group catches you, the warclaw makes it pretty much guaranteed you're dead unless you're close to a building/big blob lol. If you try to escape the gankers only need 1 person to keep you in combat while the rest mount up and catch up to you, with the added benefit of finishing you instantly so there is absolutely no chance someone can save you :^)

The trade-off of combat capability for mobility is nice in theory, but in practice you usually do not trade off anything. The classes with high mobility are usually the ones with the superior combat ability in small scale. Let's be serious, it doesn't matter that a scourge can go a bit quicker out of combat now. As soon as engagement begins the roaming class will shred the scourge in seconds. This will become even more apparent when Anet adds the dismount skill. You also still get to keep that mobility that you invested in when you are in combat, which is still a huge advantage. It allows you to pursue target easier while in combat, counter kiting or straight up flee, while the low mobility classes still do not have these options.

You make good points there. I agree that mobility can be used in small scale combat with moderate success, but as the fight scales up it becomes more and more useless and in the post-warclaw roaming being a mobile class doesn't really help you as I said before.

I think that I didn't express my main issue correctly, which is the roamer/scout part. Before the warclaw, the first ones to get to an objective used to be the high mobility classes. Be it for flipping a camp, defending an objective, or maybe just to scout and see if the swords at the keep are just a tap or a real attack. As it stands now, by making everyone have the same mobility you're taking this away from roaming classes, and since we touched at the mobility = combat ability topic, now that everyone can move through the map pretty fast these small scale fights you're talking about turn into not so small fights pretty quickly, rendering this mobility advantage useless unless you're fleeing, in which case you're pretty much useless for your team lol.

Because lets be honest, if you know you have 5 people incoming to take a camp and you're trying to defend it, which classes would you rather come to your aid? Considering that all the classes take the same time to get there now with the warclaw there is no point to being a mobile class. Before the warclaw mobile classes at least had the benefit of being able to arrive early to help compared to slower classes. On the other side, if you switch this around and now you're a group of 5 trying to take a camp, which classes would you rather have? Before the warclaw mobile classes had the benefit of being able to flip an objective before the enemy could get there to defend it, but now you might as well just grab a FB, a scourge and a couple engies and call it a day.

If trying to intercept 5 people, I know I'd still rather have good roamers come and help me instead of that mindless zerg necro going "imma bomb these guys easy wait they dodge I'm dying where are mah heals and cleanses reeeeeezzzzzz?!?!?"

Roaming was never just your mobility. Proper roaming is smarter than that.

I'm talking about what the classes bring to a fight, not about zergling vs roamer nonsense.

For example, a necro brings strong area damage and boon corrupt while a thief brings kinda high burst damage at melee range (pretty risky in a teamfight) with no way of sustaining itself and... well yeah that's it. Which one will help you secure the point better?

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

But also there is this other issue I have with it. From a roamer/scout perspective, the warclaw normalizes mobility across all classes, which is a relative nerf to high mobility classes and a relative buff to low mobility ones. In other words, immobile classes like necro can now enjoy the same mobility as a thief when moving between objectives with no tradeoffs at all, which in my opinion is wrong and should be balanced in some way.

How is it a nerf if said professions can use it as well. All it does is increase profession diversity by granting everyone equal mobility. As soon as combat begins, every profession suffers the same weaknesses and enjoys the same strengths they always have.

I'm sorry that every profession now has the option to decide what fights it wants to take and what ones it doesn't. Unlike before mounts when only a select few had that option while the rest meant suicide.

On second thought, I'm not sorry.

Read what I said again. It is a
relative
nerf, because the addition of the warclaw is a buff to some classes in the mobility aspect while others get no benefit because they were already pretty mobile in the first place.

For the second part, that wasn't really my point but I'll answer anyways. WvW is a game mode that features open world PvP which means you have to be ready for anything. Sure, highly mobile classes can decide which fights they want to take but that is because its one of the benefits of trading combat capabilities for mobility. I'm sorry you're so bitter about it.

And btw, the warclaw does nothing to prevent ganking. If a group catches you, the warclaw makes it pretty much guaranteed you're dead unless you're close to a building/big blob lol. If you try to escape the gankers only need 1 person to keep you in combat while the rest mount up and catch up to you, with the added benefit of finishing you instantly so there is absolutely no chance someone can save you :^)

The trade-off of combat capability for mobility is nice in theory, but in practice you usually do not trade off anything. The classes with high mobility are usually the ones with the superior combat ability in small scale. Let's be serious, it doesn't matter that a scourge can go a bit quicker out of combat now. As soon as engagement begins the roaming class will shred the scourge in seconds. This will become even more apparent when Anet adds the dismount skill. You also still get to keep that mobility that you invested in when you are in combat, which is still a huge advantage. It allows you to pursue target easier while in combat, counter kiting or straight up flee, while the low mobility classes still do not have these options.

You make good points there. I agree that mobility can be used in small scale combat with moderate success, but as the fight scales up it becomes more and more useless and in the post-warclaw roaming being a mobile class doesn't really help you as I said before.

I think that I didn't express my main issue correctly, which is the roamer/scout part. Before the warclaw, the first ones to get to an objective used to be the high mobility classes. Be it for flipping a camp, defending an objective, or maybe just to scout and see if the swords at the keep are just a tap or a real attack. As it stands now, by making everyone have the same mobility you're taking this away from roaming classes, and since we touched at the mobility = combat ability topic, now that everyone can move through the map pretty fast these small scale fights you're talking about turn into not so small fights pretty quickly, rendering this mobility advantage useless unless you're fleeing, in which case you're pretty much useless for your team lol.

Because lets be honest, if you know you have 5 people incoming to take a camp and you're trying to defend it, which classes would you rather come to your aid? Considering that all the classes take the same time to get there now with the warclaw there is no point to being a mobile class. Before the warclaw mobile classes at least had the benefit of being able to arrive early to help compared to slower classes. On the other side, if you switch this around and now you're a group of 5 trying to take a camp, which classes would you rather have? Before the warclaw mobile classes had the benefit of being able to flip an objective before the enemy could get there to defend it, but now you might as well just grab a FB, a scourge and a couple engies and call it a day.

I think the issue with mounts is the inability to stop them. Until mounts can be CC'd, they'll be problematic. I disagree completely that this has anything to do with professions. Every profession that makes a good roamer still has that strength. They even have a better chance at dismounting players than ones that are objectively worse roamers. Prior to mounts, if a Firebrand and a Scourge didn't want to take a particular fight (perhaps because the numbers were against them) they had to take it anyway. Now, they can choose not to. Although this promotes passive gameplay, it has nothing to do with professions. As soon as combat begins, the ones with greater mobility and better tools to dispatch lesser equipped professions/builds will have the upper hand. If mounts could be CC'd, roaming would essentially revert to what it was before, albeit a little faster paced.

I agree that fixing CC immunity would solve a lot of problems, but regarding the effects the warclaw has on the classes I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Mind you that most of what I've said before comes from the point of view of capturing/defending objectives rather than random fights on the road, where I agree that the warclaw doesn't really matter that much.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"DemonSeed.3528" said:There are inherent problems with the mount.

  1. Immune to CC (by far one of the biggest problems)
  2. 10k Hp Buffer (there is no need for an hp buffer, if anything allow to buffer/absorb only 1 hit from anything before getting dismounted) When this is changed, mounts can be reverted to contest points as they will not really present a problem any longer)
  3. 3 dodges (this needs to be set to 1 by default, and with a max of 2 when traited in mastery. Not 3)
  4. Able to get into towers/keeps via terrain (this will be a constant problem with no fix until they patch the way dismount works - I rather they don't mutilate terrain visually)
  5. Able to easily perma contest keeps, no need for stealth (just run up to a keep and laugh as the guards do nothing to you while you contest. Quickly make your exit and return in 2-3m to rinse and repeat).
  6. Skill 1 is still very buggy, sometimes it will go off cooldown and you cannot dismount due to anything like small bumps etc that put the skill on cooldown and you have to use your mount/dismount key that you set in hotkeys
  7. One of the other bigger problems NO ONE ever brings up about mounts are one shots using mounts. Yes, one shots using mounts. Many classes can do this, here is one example, you will see it being used a few times in this video:

There was also another video of a thief using it but the video was deleted already, as you can guess it was done via assassin signet etc. This is not something exclusive to thief or soulbeast, just use your imagination and you'll know that other classes can do it as well. Even though the video I have shown here is during NDS week, it was always possible to do so since the release of the mount and not once has it ever been brought up. [Please do not bring up OPness of sbeast, that is for another thread that you can post this video to].

There is a lot of work that needs to be done on the warclaw still, no bones about it.The only thing I can agree with the usage of the mount for now, is only speed set to perma swiftness speed of what a player can achieve with their class in any territory. Sniff is actually alright and quite balanced, I use this skill quite often. The chain pull should be repurposed into the dismount skill , and skill 1 should be kept as the stomp. There still needs to be methods for melee users and also non-pof owners to dismount mounts.

WHOOOW!! That's quality vid! I think this alone can be a proof of how "neutral" factor the mount can be in WvW :#

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Creaitov.6328 said:

I agree that fixing CC immunity would solve a lot of problems, but regarding the effects the warclaw has on the classes I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Mind you that most of what I've said before comes from the point of view of capturing/defending objectives rather than random fights on the road, where I agree that the warclaw doesn't really matter that much.

Every profession has something valuable to offer in small/medium scale. In large scale, not every profession has enough utility to be worth bringing. That's why on the 15< player scale, I would want someone who's good regardless of what they're playing. I don't want a Thief being the first to respond to defense if that Thief plays poorly and ends up rallying people the same way I don't want a Firebrand that doesn't know how to support.

As someone who routinely responds to scouts as a means of finding action, I know that when I make my own calls I want to see players I trust. I don't much care what it is they're playing.

I don't at all mind if we disagree with each other, I just wanted to state my feelings on the matter.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...