The Deadeye effect (season 2) — Guild Wars 2 Forums

The Deadeye effect (season 2)

Dreddo.9865Dreddo.9865 Member ✭✭✭

The below damage occurs out of stealth and in milliseconds literally:


The deadeye then goes into stealth almost immediately, pew pew from afar and repeats after a bit of time. If he is threatened he can stealth and escape enemy focus. It's like infinite stealth and 'god mode' dps.
Is this another 'legit balance feature' or something that slipped out of the team's notice?

<1

Comments

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 9, 2019

    Since we are in the sPvP forum section:

    This is a 5v5. While the DE attempts to oneshot you someone of your team can oneshot him.

    There are these fights where all I do is waiting till that DE pops up to oneshot an ally. I don't even mind to go for the rez as my ally will go instadown anyway after I burned my defensive cooldowns for the rez. I just use these kind of allies to bait bursts.

    When this was WvW I would join the rant as I main reaper (which is a free loot bag for LB soulbeasts and rifle deadeyes), but for sPvP: nope sorry, can not agree with you.

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @FyzE.3472 said:
    I swear, some guy on this forum once said "It seems like when ever someone gets killed by a DE, it feels like his game alt tabs and opens up on the game forum's PvP section with pre-typed name "OMG DE DAMAGE OP" or something"

    Yeah it feels cheesy, but actually the stealth mechanic is the only form of defense DE has.
    DE was slaughtered already, the rest is on you. If you still die to it, it's on you.
    And if the big red circle on your head does not tell you that you're gonna get blown up in a few seconds so you should LoS, invuln, just run away, I'm not sure what can.

    That sounds pretty much all around broken, doesn't it? Stealth at will with no restrictions or cooldowns is just plain stupid, particularly as the only defense a class has. And if the only way to survive against it is to "LoS, invuln, or run away", does that not also indicate a broken design?

  • Balsa.3951Balsa.3951 Member ✭✭✭

    yes one shots are broken and boring but they give ppl the illusion of they are not that bad.

    but ppl here will defend everything with get gud..

    I dont think DE is OP but its for sure a boring class to play against

  • FyzE.3472FyzE.3472 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:
    I swear, some guy on this forum once said "It seems like when ever someone gets killed by a DE, it feels like his game alt tabs and opens up on the game forum's PvP section with pre-typed name "OMG DE DAMAGE OP" or something"

    Yeah it feels cheesy, but actually the stealth mechanic is the only form of defense DE has.
    DE was slaughtered already, the rest is on you. If you still die to it, it's on you.
    And if the big red circle on your head does not tell you that you're gonna get blown up in a few seconds so you should LoS, invuln, just run away, I'm not sure what can.

    That sounds pretty much all around broken, doesn't it? Stealth at will with no restrictions or cooldowns is just plain stupid, particularly as the only defense a class has. And if the only way to survive against it is to "LoS, invuln, or run away", does that not also indicate a broken design?

    Apologies for my poor wording. My point was that DE has many flaws to play around even besides "LoS, invuln or run away" and if anyone still dies to a rifle DE even after all the nerfs, I would suggest to that player to create a DE himself and try to climb with it. Then that player would see all the flaws I meant and then be able to abuse DE into uselessness.
    But I think that will never happen. It's way easier to make a complain thread than to improve.

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 9, 2019

    It is actually intended design, which makes it even worse.

    // Yanim

  • FyzE.3472FyzE.3472 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I just don't get it sometimes. Why instead of the "wow I got oneshot! I should have a look at that profession and learn how to play vs that" thought people choose the "unacceptable! This is cheating/broken/cheesy! This should not be in the game that not only I play" okay, the last part no one thinks about, let's be real here.

    So yeah. Help yourself. Even if it gets nerfed (again), it will take some time. And instead of breaking your keyboard, just look for a way to play against what ever you find OP. It may even turn out that hey, this is very easy to avoid! But I doubt that.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 9, 2019

    Lmao these forums are somthing else. Staying stealthed on DE is the most anoying class to stealth play as I'm sure they'd rather pop a gyro and just do what they gotta do in 12 or so seconds than constantly use ini to leap fields and what's the roll give? One sec lol. People complain about one shots from a paper thin class when rangers,holo,mesmers can all do close to one shots from stealth and alot of other classes have one shot burst especially on thieves all while being sustainy,have blocks/invulnerability and actually do dps outside of bursts lol.
    Seriously stop the whining and just delete the class already. Replace it with a glass spec that does low noodle dps overall and and give it one telegraphed burst so the whining will stop lol oh wait! Lol

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭

    Spammable immob that hits you for 5k? Indeed nothing to see here folks

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 9, 2019

    @praqtos.9035 said:
    Spammable immob that hits you for 5k? Indeed nothing to see here folks

    I'm confused. Are u talking about soulbeast,holo,warrior among others that not only have immobilize skills but more burst and sustain? Oh right I forgot thief has infinite ini and can spam at will with no impact to all its weapon skills unlike CD lmao.just wish DE players would switch specs so we'd see more specs than just DE in plat lmao. In wvw DE is so oppressive wish the'yd all switch to fb,scourge,herald,soulbeast pew pew or spellbreaker lmao be soo much better.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Balsa.3951 said:
    yes one shots are broken and boring but they give ppl the illusion of they are not that bad.

    but ppl here will defend everything with get gud..

    I dont think DE is OP but its for sure a boring class to play against

    I agree 100% but we all know if DE was given multiple means of being effective, heck change that to even one other mean so the DE doesnt have to rely on that one trick to get downs the forums would be in a uproar that whatever means were added are now op lol. Arenet really needs to decide on what they want thier thief class/specs to be and stay true to it and only listen to the community cry's about issues that dont change the classes intended purpose and design as well as be very careful changing things as a result of the cry's of non thief players or u get this result. A class that no longer fits it's in game description and is a jumbled mess.
    A very glassy class with low hp that uses active defenses like evades and dodges as its sustain and not passive means of sustain and or blocks and invulnerability skills needs to get in quick and secure the kill or get out. Right now u can get in quick but against today's sustainable classes u cant secure the quick kill and u get stomped with ease unless u disengage. Yes quick burst AND disengagement play styles cause alot of salt but that's what a rogue class is soposed to be and do. Arenetet for the most part should have outright ignored most crys against thief knowing that creating a character with the rogue archetype would inevitably cause alot of salt doing what they do. Instead they let the community push them into changing the thief into a embarrassment of a class.

  • Dreddo.9865Dreddo.9865 Member ✭✭✭

    I really appreciate the argument of get better but the point is how can I become better, like learn to avoid, counter, etc. ...against a class that **comes out of stealth and one shots **in less than one second?
    In this particular game at some point that DE killed me capping and a DD trying to bust him - both in some seconds. xD
    This kind of 'interaction' is far from being named 'competitive PvP'.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dreddo.9865 said:
    I really appreciate the argument of get better but the point is how can I become better, like learn to avoid, counter, etc. ...against a class that **comes out of stealth and one shots **in less than one second?
    In this particular game at some point that DE killed me capping and a DD trying to bust him - both in some seconds. xD
    This kind of 'interaction' is far from being named 'competitive PvP'.

    What class/stats u running

  • Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dreddo.9865 said:
    I really appreciate the argument of get better but the point is how can I become better, like learn to avoid, counter, etc. ...against a class that **comes out of stealth and one shots **in less than one second?
    In this particular game at some point that DE killed me capping and a DD trying to bust him - both in some seconds. xD
    This kind of 'interaction' is far from being named 'competitive PvP'.

    It was 4 skirmisher shots and then DJ. So it was more than "1 second" even with quickness.

    It doesn't seem like you got hit with a stolen skill so he had to either: dodgeroll for stealth or cast a utility to regain stealth for DJ.

    This means it was about 2.5 - 3 seconds minimum after everything was added up.

    Before shots fired, there was a few "millisecs" where you heard yourself being marked.

    If you didn't hear it, turn your sound up and your music off.

    All of the suggestions everyone made are not just "L2P", or protecting their main. They are literally letting you know that you need to:

    • Move behind something
    • dodge
    • move away or out of range,

    The DE will have to waste a lot of resources to reposition to make the kill. If he is greedy and comes to the point for capture, then your DD should have been able to take him out.

    You don't just get to stand on the point freely against any class.

    For example, if I came to a point as a thief or daredevil that literally had anyone standing on it, the best thing for me to do is rotate to another point.

    If I die or waste lots of time in a 1 v 1, then currently by design and the chorus of the community, that failure is on me.

    But, if someone can show a video, even against an indestructible golem, with 4 skirmisher shots, and a dJ all from stealth in less than 1-seond, I will retract my statements.

    I won't be holding my breath.

    Soon™ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Stop this right now.

    **Mesmer **wasn't "nerfed" it got "neutered". It's on par with Renegade now. It is seriously garbage tier and there is no reason to complain about it.

    FTFY.
    As for DE being trash as you say its not true. Faeleth the only DE that can actually play the spec and he is doing fine. Even winning with DE the most tryhards team on AT's.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 9, 2019

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Stop this right now.

    **Mesmer **wasn't "nerfed" it got "neutered". It's on par with Renegade now. It is seriously garbage tier and there is no reason to complain about it.

    FTFY.
    As for DE being trash as you say its not true. Faeleth the only DE that can actually play the spec and he is doing fine. Even winning with DE the most tryhards team on AT's.

    Lmao so in ur statement this one person can play DE effectively out all the how many players that play it? You realize ur contradicting ur self right.sure seems like the specs fine if that one person is effective using it lmao. Little hint for u any really highly skilled player can be good with even a underperforming class,but the fact as u said it that most average players are not effective with it kinda leans towards being more underperforming than over performing. Get outa here with the mirage was over nerfed kitten,theres enough of those post and the post is clearly not discussing mesmers or its specs. Isn't there some rampage or arc divider is OP threads that u can throw ur mesmers are gutted posts into lmao

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 9, 2019

    I dont respond to your nonsense, told you in previous thread

    u said it that most average players are not effective with it

    Cant you stop lying tho ?

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Stop this right now.

    **Mesmer **wasn't "nerfed" it got "neutered". It's on par with Renegade now. It is seriously garbage tier and there is no reason to complain about it.

    FTFY.

    Mesmer and its variants (but particularly mirage, since the other mesmer specs got buffed last iteration) aren't neutered, they just don't have the overwhelming forgiveness they had before.

    I'm not sure...if you speak about silver-gold rating may be its fine. Above ... ? You are going to be pretty useless.
    I actually laugh at your "overwhelming forgiveness" and first what I imagine are holo/scrapper/rev

  • FyzE.3472FyzE.3472 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Guess falling from that height must really hurt mesmer mains. They can't stop complaining.

    But yeah, DE is easily outplayed. People just have to learn how to do so. Like in good old times when the GAME was dictating the rules and the PLAYERS only chance at getting good in that game was LEARNING and PRACTICING. And not demanding the devs to make it easy mode "for me exclusively"

  • dDuff.3860dDuff.3860 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 9, 2019

    Create a deadeye, turn on the game sound, cast a mark (f1) on golems. Remember this sound, if you hear this, it means you should immediately seek for LoS or applying counterpressure.

    Also, eating 4 skirmisher shots and a death judgement takes around 2,5-3 seconds after being marked with all aftercasts taking into consideration, more than enough time to react at least once with a dodge.

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 a good guide on how to counter rifle, but good deadeye won't watch you dancing around the pole, he'd at least melee bait you to pressure him, and bait defensive cooldowns. I'm also thinking that sword/*+rifle is a way to play in this meta, so LoSing like this won't help much against melee.

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭

    @FyzE.3472 said:
    Guess falling from that height must really hurt mesmer mains. They can't stop complaining.

    But yeah, DE is easily outplayed. People just have to learn how to do so. Like in good old times when the GAME was dictating the rules and the PLAYERS only chance at getting good in that game was LEARNING and PRACTICING. And not demanding the devs to make it easy mode "for me exclusively"

    Coming from scrapper main,thats rich :joy:

  • FyzE.3472FyzE.3472 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 9, 2019

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:
    Guess falling from that height must really hurt mesmer mains. They can't stop complaining.

    But yeah, DE is easily outplayed. People just have to learn how to do so. Like in good old times when the GAME was dictating the rules and the PLAYERS only chance at getting good in that game was LEARNING and PRACTICING. And not demanding the devs to make it easy mode "for me exclusively"

    Coming from scrapper main,thats rich :joy:

    "Uh oh criticism. What ever can I do? I know! I will make up a false statement to discredit that person! Yeah that should work! Who need reason in an argument anyway?!"

    Edit: you seem like a person who ignores any advice for the sake of complaining some more. That will not help you enjoy the game even a little more my man.

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dreddo.9865 said:
    I really appreciate the argument of get better but the point is how can I become better, like learn to avoid, counter, etc. ...against a class that **comes out of stealth and one shots **in less than one second?
    In this particular game at some point that DE killed me capping and a DD trying to bust him - both in some seconds. xD
    This kind of 'interaction' is far from being named 'competitive PvP'.

    +1

    'Any good computer game must be totally fair. It must be possible for the player to reach the objective and win'

    -Tim Barry

    'An important trait of any game is the illusion of winnability. If a game is to provide a continuing challenge to players, it must also provide a continuing motivation to play. The game must appear to be winnable to all players, beginners and experts, but it must never truly be winnable or it will lose its appeal'

    -Chris Crawford

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭

    @FyzE.3472 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:
    Guess falling from that height must really hurt mesmer mains. They can't stop complaining.

    But yeah, DE is easily outplayed. People just have to learn how to do so. Like in good old times when the GAME was dictating the rules and the PLAYERS only chance at getting good in that game was LEARNING and PRACTICING. And not demanding the devs to make it easy mode "for me exclusively"

    Coming from scrapper main,thats rich :joy:

    "Uh oh criticism. What ever can I do? I know! I will make up a false statement to discredit that person! Yeah that should work! Who need reason in an argument anyway?!"

    Edit: you seem like a person who ignores any advice for the sake of complaining some more. That will not help you enjoy the game even a little more my man.

    You are popping up at every thread that touches scrapper that is super annoying to play against and ppl for unknown reasons trying to 1x2 it for ages and still cant.
    "help me with spellbarkers,the only matchup doesnt go well through facerolling" ,not so false statement

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Dreddo.9865 said:
    I really appreciate the argument of get better but the point is how can I become better, like learn to avoid, counter, etc. ...against a class that **comes out of stealth and one shots **in less than one second?
    In this particular game at some point that DE killed me capping and a DD trying to bust him - both in some seconds. xD
    This kind of 'interaction' is far from being named 'competitive PvP'.

    +1

    'Any good computer game must be totally fair. It must be possible for the player to reach the objective and win'

    -Tim Barry

    'An important trait of any game is the illusion of winnability. If a game is to provide a continuing challenge to players, it must also provide a continuing motivation to play. The game must appear to be winnable to all players, beginners and experts, but it must never truly be winnable or it will lose its appeal'

    -Chris Crawford

    Coming from some one pro mesmer no? Lol

  • FyzE.3472FyzE.3472 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 10, 2019

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:
    Guess falling from that height must really hurt mesmer mains. They can't stop complaining.

    But yeah, DE is easily outplayed. People just have to learn how to do so. Like in good old times when the GAME was dictating the rules and the PLAYERS only chance at getting good in that game was LEARNING and PRACTICING. And not demanding the devs to make it easy mode "for me exclusively"

    Coming from scrapper main,thats rich :joy:

    "Uh oh criticism. What ever can I do? I know! I will make up a false statement to discredit that person! Yeah that should work! Who need reason in an argument anyway?!"

    Edit: you seem like a person who ignores any advice for the sake of complaining some more. That will not help you enjoy the game even a little more my man.

    You are popping up at every thread that touches scrapper that is super annoying to play against and ppl for unknown reasons trying to 1x2 it for ages and still cant.
    "help me with spellbarkers,the only matchup doesnt go well through facerolling" ,not so false statement

    Oh sure. Probs for looking through my posts btw. If you see the date, you would see that it was ages ago. Also one question on engie forums does not mean that I main engie lol what makes you think that? You don't have to answer that question.

    I main more than one profession that's why I say that people usually complain first, think later. Or not think and just go through someone's message history and find ANYTHING to discredit the person.

    Also I'm trying to help people play vs scrapper and one of the points I make is "even if Scrapper gets nerfed again, it will take some time, right? Why not use that time to try and improve your play style vs them?" But no. Let's just make suggestions right away. Great job man. It will not help you enjoy your game btw.

    Also notice that I went there and asked for help. Not made a post demanding Spellbreaker to be nerfed so that I alone can enjoy the game. See where I'm getting here? Or instead of the things I say, you will yet again attempt to discredit me instead of just listening and extracting even a little bit of value? Just so you know, neither of your choices makes any difference for me. But do for you. Jist because I enjoy the game how it is, and you don't.

    Have a great day.

  • DigiQWill.6378DigiQWill.6378 Member ✭✭

    Breaking news: results show that your original concern is impossible. Please try again later, once you've learnt to dodge or use your utilities effectively. Thank you!

  • Solori.6025Solori.6025 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @FyzE.3472 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:
    I swear, some guy on this forum once said "It seems like when ever someone gets killed by a DE, it feels like his game alt tabs and opens up on the game forum's PvP section with pre-typed name "OMG DE DAMAGE OP" or something"

    Yeah it feels cheesy, but actually the stealth mechanic is the only form of defense DE has.
    DE was slaughtered already, the rest is on you. If you still die to it, it's on you.
    And if the big red circle on your head does not tell you that you're gonna get blown up in a few seconds so you should LoS, invuln, just run away, I'm not sure what can.

    That sounds pretty much all around broken, doesn't it? Stealth at will with no restrictions or cooldowns is just plain stupid, particularly as the only defense a class has. And if the only way to survive against it is to "LoS, invuln, or run away", does that not also indicate a broken design?

    Apologies for my poor wording. My point was that DE has many flaws to play around even besides "LoS, invuln or run away" and if anyone still dies to a rifle DE even after all the nerfs, I would suggest to that player to create a DE himself and try to climb with it. Then that player would see all the flaws I meant and then be able to abuse DE into uselessness.
    But I think that will never happen. It's way easier to make a complain thread than to improve.

    You're forgetting. It doesnt matter how effective it is or not. That's not how the Spvp subsection works. If the past year is any indication of the status quo here, it's all about how FUN something is to play against. Yes DE can have many holes and classes that hard counter it. But if it isnt fun to play against it needs to be nerfed to the ground.

    Tingle my stingleberry

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 9, 2019

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:
    I swear, some guy on this forum once said "It seems like when ever someone gets killed by a DE, it feels like his game alt tabs and opens up on the game forum's PvP section with pre-typed name "OMG DE DAMAGE OP" or something"

    Yeah it feels cheesy, but actually the stealth mechanic is the only form of defense DE has.
    DE was slaughtered already, the rest is on you. If you still die to it, it's on you.
    And if the big red circle on your head does not tell you that you're gonna get blown up in a few seconds so you should LoS, invuln, just run away, I'm not sure what can.

    That sounds pretty much all around broken, doesn't it? Stealth at will with no restrictions or cooldowns is just plain stupid, particularly as the only defense a class has. And if the only way to survive against it is to "LoS, invuln, or run away", does that not also indicate a broken design?

    Apologies for my poor wording. My point was that DE has many flaws to play around even besides "LoS, invuln or run away" and if anyone still dies to a rifle DE even after all the nerfs, I would suggest to that player to create a DE himself and try to climb with it. Then that player would see all the flaws I meant and then be able to abuse DE into uselessness.
    But I think that will never happen. It's way easier to make a complain thread than to improve.

    You're forgetting. It doesnt matter how effective it is or not. That's not how the Spvp subsection works. If the past year is any indication of the status quo here, it's all about how FUN something is to play against. Yes DE can have many holes and classes that hard counter it. But if it isnt fun to play against it needs to be nerfed to the ground.

    I agree 100%
    Prob is it has been nerfed to the ground. Although dying to a DE is anoying at this point ifur dying alot to a DE it's a 100% l2p issue. Also what would OP expect the DE to do? It's not like I'd stand a chance in a fight lol that's not DE's nor the players fault that's on arenet for designing DE to be too weak in a fight and having to resort to said mechanics. This is problem with thief in general. At this point nerfing them more they may as well grey out the thief in select characters screen until it's fixed lol

  • FyzE.3472FyzE.3472 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:
    I swear, some guy on this forum once said "It seems like when ever someone gets killed by a DE, it feels like his game alt tabs and opens up on the game forum's PvP section with pre-typed name "OMG DE DAMAGE OP" or something"

    Yeah it feels cheesy, but actually the stealth mechanic is the only form of defense DE has.
    DE was slaughtered already, the rest is on you. If you still die to it, it's on you.
    And if the big red circle on your head does not tell you that you're gonna get blown up in a few seconds so you should LoS, invuln, just run away, I'm not sure what can.

    That sounds pretty much all around broken, doesn't it? Stealth at will with no restrictions or cooldowns is just plain stupid, particularly as the only defense a class has. And if the only way to survive against it is to "LoS, invuln, or run away", does that not also indicate a broken design?

    Apologies for my poor wording. My point was that DE has many flaws to play around even besides "LoS, invuln or run away" and if anyone still dies to a rifle DE even after all the nerfs, I would suggest to that player to create a DE himself and try to climb with it. Then that player would see all the flaws I meant and then be able to abuse DE into uselessness.
    But I think that will never happen. It's way easier to make a complain thread than to improve.

    You're forgetting. It doesnt matter how effective it is or not. That's not how the Spvp subsection works. If the past year is any indication of the status quo here, it's all about how FUN something is to play against. Yes DE can have many holes and classes that hard counter it. But if it isnt fun to play against it needs to be nerfed to the ground.

    That and if you can't just faceroll the keyboard and win, devs should also delete the profession people have trouble facerolling against.

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 9, 2019

    @FyzE.3472 said:
    Just so you know, neither of your choices males any difference for me. But do for you.

    What ....males....?

    Jist because I enjoy the game how it is, and you don't.

    How can I enjoy the game where scrapper doesnt die to two people and happily facetank everything ? Same goes for revenants that jump at you through time,space and walls from like 2000 range ? I dont enjoy this even for a second

    That and if you can't just faceroll the keyboard and win, devs should also delete the profession people have trouble facerolling against.

    Thats remind me one class that recently was deleted :joy:

  • FyzE.3472FyzE.3472 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:
    Just so you know, neither of your choices males any difference for me. But do for you.

    What ....males....?

    Jist because I enjoy the game how it is, and you don't.

    How can I enjoy the game where scrapper doesnt die to two people and happily facetank everything ? Same goes for revenants that jump at you through time,space and walls from like 2000 range ? I dont enjoy this even for a second

    That and if you can't just faceroll the keyboard and win, devs should also delete the profession people have trouble facerolling against.

    Thats remind me one class that recently was deleted :joy:

    You really want everything chewed for you huh? I meant "makes" ofc. Since you could not figure it out, I'm on my phone. Also, is that the only thing you got out of everything I said?

    You can enjoy the game if you READ what I said, not check my grammar. Also there are several advices you can find in this forum. If you WANT, you can try them out. If not - it's on you. Your enjoyment depends on it, not mine. I'm done.

  • Curennos.9307Curennos.9307 Member ✭✭✭

    I like how it's Skirmisher's Shot and not Spotter's Shot, so we know he wasn't immobed and thus could dodge. But somehow didn't.

    Also LOL 'it isn't fun, nerf it'. Well I don't find it FUN for a class I enjoy playing getting nerfed to the ground because someone gets hit by 5 skills in a row without doing anything (seriously, how? Were you afk?), please ban their forum account so I can continue to have FUN! Woo.

    I'll gladly welcome some revamps to make DE more interactive on the opponent's side with more back and forth instead of all or nothing, but this whole 'my reaction speed is that of a dead person please nerf this' is utter garbage.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dreddo.9865 said:
    I really appreciate the argument of get better but the point is how can I become better, like learn to avoid, counter, etc. ...against a class that **comes out of stealth and one shots **in less than one second?
    In this particular game at some point that DE killed me capping and a DD trying to bust him - both in some seconds. xD
    This kind of 'interaction' is far from being named 'competitive PvP'.

    But it doesn't. It did, but got 'reworked' (adjusted?) and now it doesn't. Go play it so you can understand what you're talking about.

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:
    I swear, some guy on this forum once said "It seems like when ever someone gets killed by a DE, it feels like his game alt tabs and opens up on the game forum's PvP section with pre-typed name "OMG DE DAMAGE OP" or something"

    Yeah it feels cheesy, but actually the stealth mechanic is the only form of defense DE has.
    DE was slaughtered already, the rest is on you. If you still die to it, it's on you.
    And if the big red circle on your head does not tell you that you're gonna get blown up in a few seconds so you should LoS, invuln, just run away, I'm not sure what can.

    That sounds pretty much all around broken, doesn't it? Stealth at will with no restrictions or cooldowns is just plain stupid, particularly as the only defense a class has. And if the only way to survive against it is to "LoS, invuln, or run away", does that not also indicate a broken design?

    Apologies for my poor wording. My point was that DE has many flaws to play around even besides "LoS, invuln or run away" and if anyone still dies to a rifle DE even after all the nerfs, I would suggest to that player to create a DE himself and try to climb with it. Then that player would see all the flaws I meant and then be able to abuse DE into uselessness.
    But I think that will never happen. It's way easier to make a complain thread than to improve.

    You're forgetting. It doesnt matter how effective it is or not. That's not how the Spvp subsection works. If the past year is any indication of the status quo here, it's all about how FUN something is to play against. Yes DE can have many holes and classes that hard counter it. But if it isnt fun to play against it needs to be nerfed to the ground.

    Fun is subjective, but I doubt you'll find many non-deadeyes who think the way this class is setup is perfectly fine. The way GW2 handles stealth in general is pretty questionable, but on deadeye it's beyond broken. And I realize that this is how the class is designed to survive and that simply taking their stealth away would make them useless. But in my opinion, it's straight up broken and should be replaced. Hit-and-run stealth with no cooldown restrictions should simply not be a thing for any class ever.

    Stealth gyro/mass invis. I'm fine with that kind of stealth. It's pretty lacking in counters, but that's just how GW2 handles stealth. It's the endless cycle of popping off a massive damage strike out of stealth, re-stealthing, and doing it again. Over and over. That has to go. Just my opinion.

  • Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:
    I swear, some guy on this forum once said "It seems like when ever someone gets killed by a DE, it feels like his game alt tabs and opens up on the game forum's PvP section with pre-typed name "OMG DE DAMAGE OP" or something"

    Yeah it feels cheesy, but actually the stealth mechanic is the only form of defense DE has.
    DE was slaughtered already, the rest is on you. If you still die to it, it's on you.
    And if the big red circle on your head does not tell you that you're gonna get blown up in a few seconds so you should LoS, invuln, just run away, I'm not sure what can.

    That sounds pretty much all around broken, doesn't it? Stealth at will with no restrictions or cooldowns is just plain stupid, particularly as the only defense a class has. And if the only way to survive against it is to "LoS, invuln, or run away", does that not also indicate a broken design?

    Apologies for my poor wording. My point was that DE has many flaws to play around even besides "LoS, invuln or run away" and if anyone still dies to a rifle DE even after all the nerfs, I would suggest to that player to create a DE himself and try to climb with it. Then that player would see all the flaws I meant and then be able to abuse DE into uselessness.
    But I think that will never happen. It's way easier to make a complain thread than to improve.

    You're forgetting. It doesnt matter how effective it is or not. That's not how the Spvp subsection works. If the past year is any indication of the status quo here, it's all about how FUN something is to play against. Yes DE can have many holes and classes that hard counter it. But if it isnt fun to play against it needs to be nerfed to the ground.

    Fun is subjective, but I doubt you'll find many non-deadeyes who think the way this class is setup is perfectly fine. The way GW2 handles stealth in general is pretty questionable, but on deadeye it's beyond broken. And I realize that this is how the class is designed to survive and that simply taking their stealth away would make them useless. But in my opinion, it's straight up broken and should be replaced. Hit-and-run stealth with no cooldown restrictions should simply not be a thing for any class ever.

    Stealth gyro/mass invis. I'm fine with that kind of stealth. It's pretty lacking in counters, but that's just how GW2 handles stealth. It's the endless cycle of popping off a massive damage strike out of stealth, re-stealthing, and doing it again. Over and over. That has to go. Just my opinion.

    Well, what would it be replaced with that can make DE sustain possible?

    Currently without that type of stealth, DE is dead meat on contact.

    Soon™ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:
    I swear, some guy on this forum once said "It seems like when ever someone gets killed by a DE, it feels like his game alt tabs and opens up on the game forum's PvP section with pre-typed name "OMG DE DAMAGE OP" or something"

    Yeah it feels cheesy, but actually the stealth mechanic is the only form of defense DE has.
    DE was slaughtered already, the rest is on you. If you still die to it, it's on you.
    And if the big red circle on your head does not tell you that you're gonna get blown up in a few seconds so you should LoS, invuln, just run away, I'm not sure what can.

    That sounds pretty much all around broken, doesn't it? Stealth at will with no restrictions or cooldowns is just plain stupid, particularly as the only defense a class has. And if the only way to survive against it is to "LoS, invuln, or run away", does that not also indicate a broken design?

    Well you just listed a few counterplay options, what do you think the answer is?

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    Apologies if I come off as dry or blunt.

  • Curennos.9307Curennos.9307 Member ✭✭✭

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:
    I swear, some guy on this forum once said "It seems like when ever someone gets killed by a DE, it feels like his game alt tabs and opens up on the game forum's PvP section with pre-typed name "OMG DE DAMAGE OP" or something"

    Yeah it feels cheesy, but actually the stealth mechanic is the only form of defense DE has.
    DE was slaughtered already, the rest is on you. If you still die to it, it's on you.
    And if the big red circle on your head does not tell you that you're gonna get blown up in a few seconds so you should LoS, invuln, just run away, I'm not sure what can.

    That sounds pretty much all around broken, doesn't it? Stealth at will with no restrictions or cooldowns is just plain stupid, particularly as the only defense a class has. And if the only way to survive against it is to "LoS, invuln, or run away", does that not also indicate a broken design?

    Apologies for my poor wording. My point was that DE has many flaws to play around even besides "LoS, invuln or run away" and if anyone still dies to a rifle DE even after all the nerfs, I would suggest to that player to create a DE himself and try to climb with it. Then that player would see all the flaws I meant and then be able to abuse DE into uselessness.
    But I think that will never happen. It's way easier to make a complain thread than to improve.

    You're forgetting. It doesnt matter how effective it is or not. That's not how the Spvp subsection works. If the past year is any indication of the status quo here, it's all about how FUN something is to play against. Yes DE can have many holes and classes that hard counter it. But if it isnt fun to play against it needs to be nerfed to the ground.

    Fun is subjective, but I doubt you'll find many non-deadeyes who think the way this class is setup is perfectly fine. The way GW2 handles stealth in general is pretty questionable, but on deadeye it's beyond broken. And I realize that this is how the class is designed to survive and that simply taking their stealth away would make them useless. But in my opinion, it's straight up broken and should be replaced. Hit-and-run stealth with no cooldown restrictions should simply not be a thing for any class ever.

    Stealth gyro/mass invis. I'm fine with that kind of stealth. It's pretty lacking in counters, but that's just how GW2 handles stealth. It's the endless cycle of popping off a massive damage strike out of stealth, re-stealthing, and doing it again. Over and over. That has to go. Just my opinion.

    Well, what would it be replaced with that can make DE sustain possible?

    Currently without that type of stealth, DE is dead meat on contact.

    Renewing Gaze could use some love. The regen is garbage - give a 2k heal when the marked target gets below a certain health percentage (25%?) and that'd be a good start. Something like Adrenal health, except to help the thief finish the fight instead of sustain. Or take less damage from target(s) based on their health percentage.

    Changing the first line of DE traits to defensive options would be another good one - they're all pretty bad/negligible. Blinds, cripple, aegis.

    Then nerf disengage/engage power of sword 2 and shift it into other parts of the weapons - tighten the return range of sword 2 so it can still be functional, but is no longer easy to return to starting point if you get successfully kited.

    Make dagger/pistol 5 bigger for some reliable blinds in a teamfight, give heartseeker SOMETHING because it's pretty much just used for the leap -> stealth (maybe barrier if it hits a target, grants more based on health percent of target). Dagger AA being something of a threat again would be nice - sustain through offensive pressure.

    Give DE a grandmaster defensive trait instead of that mightshare. M7 is...utility-ish, BQoBK is offensive. A defensive trait with some group support shoved in would be nice.

    Add some additional rewards to landing the last attack in a weapon's AA chain - endurance regen, a blind, etc.

    Lastly, rework stealth traits so they reward staying in stealth for as small a duration as possible. The Shadow Arts GM trait Shadow's Rejuv is....terrible. It encourages the thief to stay in stealth for long periods of time to get the health and ini - change it to give a flat health and ini return that scales downward based on how long the thief stays in stealth.

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:
    I swear, some guy on this forum once said "It seems like when ever someone gets killed by a DE, it feels like his game alt tabs and opens up on the game forum's PvP section with pre-typed name "OMG DE DAMAGE OP" or something"

    Yeah it feels cheesy, but actually the stealth mechanic is the only form of defense DE has.
    DE was slaughtered already, the rest is on you. If you still die to it, it's on you.
    And if the big red circle on your head does not tell you that you're gonna get blown up in a few seconds so you should LoS, invuln, just run away, I'm not sure what can.

    That sounds pretty much all around broken, doesn't it? Stealth at will with no restrictions or cooldowns is just plain stupid, particularly as the only defense a class has. And if the only way to survive against it is to "LoS, invuln, or run away", does that not also indicate a broken design?

    Well you just listed a few counterplay options, what do you think the answer is?

    There are any number of ways a spec can have sufficient sustain. I'm not saying get rid of stealth. It's the particular variety of stealth that DE utilizes that is problematic. I recognize that they are not a dominant spec at this point. The issue is that we have created a class that doesn't allow players to fight back. Deadeyes simply attack out of stealth and pop back into stealth before their opponents can do anything to harm them. Your version of counterplay allows players to survive or walk away, but how do you fight an enemy that never gives you more than a brief moment to attack them?

  • TorQ.7041TorQ.7041 Member ✭✭✭

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:
    Just so you know, neither of your choices males any difference for me. But do for you.

    What ....males....?

    Jist because I enjoy the game how it is, and you don't.

    How can I enjoy the game where scrapper doesnt die to two people and happily facetank everything ? Same goes for revenants that jump at you through time,space and walls from like 2000 range ? I dont enjoy this even for a second

    That and if you can't just faceroll the keyboard and win, devs should also delete the profession people have trouble facerolling against.

    Thats remind me one class that recently was deleted :joy:

    Scrapper does not survive to everything and it cannot face tank. Once you hit plat and you play scrapper you will be demolished in seconds. Ranger, revs, power mes, warrior, reaper will wait till your cool downs r burnt and destroy you.

  • TorQ.7041TorQ.7041 Member ✭✭✭

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:
    I swear, some guy on this forum once said "It seems like when ever someone gets killed by a DE, it feels like his game alt tabs and opens up on the game forum's PvP section with pre-typed name "OMG DE DAMAGE OP" or something"

    Yeah it feels cheesy, but actually the stealth mechanic is the only form of defense DE has.
    DE was slaughtered already, the rest is on you. If you still die to it, it's on you.
    And if the big red circle on your head does not tell you that you're gonna get blown up in a few seconds so you should LoS, invuln, just run away, I'm not sure what can.

    That sounds pretty much all around broken, doesn't it? Stealth at will with no restrictions or cooldowns is just plain stupid, particularly as the only defense a class has. And if the only way to survive against it is to "LoS, invuln, or run away", does that not also indicate a broken design?

    Well you just listed a few counterplay options, what do you think the answer is?

    There are any number of ways a spec can have sufficient sustain. I'm not saying get rid of stealth. It's the particular variety of stealth that DE utilizes that is problematic. I recognize that they are not a dominant spec at this point. The issue is that we have created a class that doesn't allow players to fight back. Deadeyes simply attack out of stealth and pop back into stealth before their opponents can do anything to harm them. Your version of counterplay allows players to survive or walk away, but how do you fight an enemy that never gives you more than a brief moment to attack them?

    What is this pop in and out of stealth you speak of? You realize slient scope is now 1 second. 1 second is basically a detarget. It can't stay in stealth long enough for you not to track it. You literally have to not look at your screen to think it's gone. Once u dodge it's burst. It's basically game over for deadeye.

  • Bazsi.2734Bazsi.2734 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dreddo.9865 said:
    The below damage occurs out of stealth and in milliseconds literally:


    The deadeye then goes into stealth almost immediately, pew pew from afar and repeats after a bit of time. If he is threatened he can stealth and escape enemy focus. It's like infinite stealth and 'god mode' dps.
    Is this another 'legit balance feature' or something that slipped out of the team's notice?

    Saying milliseconds and showing a log of 4 skirmisher shots is completely contradicting yourself! Also DJ is literally useless, you don't even have to dodge it now, just block/reflect/weaken/blind/LoS(or my favourite: sidestep it from max distance).

    Deadeye either has "god mode dps"(which compared to what other classes can do is still average at best), or can choose to have the ability stealth and escape enemy focus, you absolutely cannot do both at once. Now if we're not talking about maintained pressure but burst, DE can still dish out some mean numbers, but the log you showed... this ain't it, chief!

    Actually I cannot decide if this post is serious (in which case, this is an L2P issue on your part), or a troll post (in which case job well done).

  • Razor.6392Razor.6392 Member ✭✭✭✭

    You would have hated prenerf deadeye, right after they made DJ unblockable.

    No matter how nerfed something gets, people will still complain. The real problem is when after years, the classes remain unnerfed and powercrept to hell and back (holosmith).

    Never said I'm the best, but I believe I'm better than you.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Razor.6392 said:
    You would have hated prenerf deadeye, right after they made DJ unblockable.

    NO MATTER HOW NERFED SOMETHING GETS PEOPLE WILL STILL COMPLAIN. The real problem is when after years, the classes remain unnerfed and powercrept to hell and back (holosmith).

    It's because they can't understand the difference between when something is actually overpowered and when something is annoying.

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 10, 2019

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:
    I swear, some guy on this forum once said "It seems like when ever someone gets killed by a DE, it feels like his game alt tabs and opens up on the game forum's PvP section with pre-typed name "OMG DE DAMAGE OP" or something"

    Yeah it feels cheesy, but actually the stealth mechanic is the only form of defense DE has.
    DE was slaughtered already, the rest is on you. If you still die to it, it's on you.
    And if the big red circle on your head does not tell you that you're gonna get blown up in a few seconds so you should LoS, invuln, just run away, I'm not sure what can.

    That sounds pretty much all around broken, doesn't it? Stealth at will with no restrictions or cooldowns is just plain stupid, particularly as the only defense a class has. And if the only way to survive against it is to "LoS, invuln, or run away", does that not also indicate a broken design?

    Well you just listed a few counterplay options, what do you think the answer is?

    There are any number of ways a spec can have sufficient sustain. I'm not saying get rid of stealth. It's the particular variety of stealth that DE utilizes that is problematic. I recognize that they are not a dominant spec at this point. The issue is that we have created a class that doesn't allow players to fight back. Deadeyes simply attack out of stealth and pop back into stealth before their opponents can do anything to harm them. Your version of counterplay allows players to survive or walk away, but how do you fight an enemy that never gives you more than a brief moment to attack them?

    the fight against a deadeye as for most thief specs is a fight for a chance to 'counterplay', because if you are successfully able to attack them in any form you will likely win. if you want more interaction where your skills land on a deadeye, then the deadeye at first needs ways to handle those hits.
    there is alot of what professions should not be able to do in the forums, but rarely can someone make a picture of how a fight SHOULD look like. you have to see it from both sides, fighting against and as deadeye.
    DE first got forced to interact more (rework removed Unforgiving and forced attacks for timely malice buildup) and then was gutted in his tools to do so properly by removing the unblockables from rifle and reducing stealth duration from silent scope, wich reduces again the interaction a deadeye will go for, but he is kind of forced to interact because of the malice system. this overall leaves deadeye now in the worst spot he has ever been in.
    IMO going for more interaction wich they did with the rework was a good thing, playing deadeye got even more fun than it was before. the main mistake they made with the change was a frequent uninterruptable stealth. i really love the idea to use endurance for stealth as i think it improves interaction in 2 ways. it does cost defensive resources wich gives more room to attack the deadeye and it doesnt cost offensive resources wich will provide the deadeye with the option to play more aggressive, but the fact they tied that use of endurance for stealth on the dodgeroll i think was a mistake. it probably was the most obvious/easiest way to provide it, but i much more would have prefered a different profession skill with a cast time of 1/4 or 1/2(like old kneel stealth) that would do this conversion. then you would need to decide between dodge and stealth for your endurance. instead they first removed the unblockable option on rifle wich reduced interaction (i would prefer unblockable rifle 2 with a bit reduced damage and malice reset on blinded/blocked/reflected stealth attacks to improve interaction instead of reduce it) and then reduced the stealth duration per endurance wich also reduces interaction as you will now use more utilities/ini/weaponswap cooldowns for stealth while you still can frequently ENTER stealth uninterruptable.
    so do you want more interaction wich would include more tools for deadeye to actually interact or do you just want dead thieves? if you want more interaction, i would love to hear your ideas on what the deadeye should gain to deal with the ungoing spamm pretty much any class can throw at each other, because i personally am probably too biased as i did play deadeye too long, altho mine are all reduced to PvE gathertoons for a while now.

    read this, become a better player now.

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:
    I swear, some guy on this forum once said "It seems like when ever someone gets killed by a DE, it feels like his game alt tabs and opens up on the game forum's PvP section with pre-typed name "OMG DE DAMAGE OP" or something"

    Yeah it feels cheesy, but actually the stealth mechanic is the only form of defense DE has.
    DE was slaughtered already, the rest is on you. If you still die to it, it's on you.
    And if the big red circle on your head does not tell you that you're gonna get blown up in a few seconds so you should LoS, invuln, just run away, I'm not sure what can.

    That sounds pretty much all around broken, doesn't it? Stealth at will with no restrictions or cooldowns is just plain stupid, particularly as the only defense a class has. And if the only way to survive against it is to "LoS, invuln, or run away", does that not also indicate a broken design?

    Well you just listed a few counterplay options, what do you think the answer is?

    There are any number of ways a spec can have sufficient sustain. I'm not saying get rid of stealth. It's the particular variety of stealth that DE utilizes that is problematic. I recognize that they are not a dominant spec at this point. The issue is that we have created a class that doesn't allow players to fight back. Deadeyes simply attack out of stealth and pop back into stealth before their opponents can do anything to harm them. Your version of counterplay allows players to survive or walk away, but how do you fight an enemy that never gives you more than a brief moment to attack them?

    the fight against a deadeye as for most thief specs is a fight for a chance to 'counterplay', because if you are successfully able to attack them in any form you will likely win. if you want more interaction where your skills land on a deadeye, then the deadeye at first needs ways to handle those hits.
    there is alot of what professions should not be able to do in the forums, but rarely can someone make a picture of how a fight SHOULD look like. you have to see it from both sides, fighting against and as deadeye.
    DE first got forced to interact more (rework removed Unforgiving and forced attacks for timely malice buildup) and then was gutted in his tools to do so properly by removing the unblockables from rifle and reducing stealth duration from silent scope, wich reduces again the interaction a deadeye will go for, but he is kind of forced to interact because of the malice system. this overall leaves deadeye now in the worst spot he has ever been in.
    IMO going for more interaction wich they did with the rework was a good thing, playing deadeye got even more fun than it was before. the main mistake they made with the change was a frequent uninterruptable stealth. i really love the idea to use endurance for stealth as i think it improves interaction in 2 ways. it does cost defensive resources wich gives more room to attack the deadeye and it doesnt cost offensive resources wich will provide the deadeye with the option to play more aggressive, but the fact they tied that use of endurance for stealth on the dodgeroll i think was a mistake. it probably was the most obvious/easiest way to provide it, but i much more would have prefered a different profession skill with a cast time of 1/4 or 1/2(like old kneel stealth) that would do this conversion. then you would need to decide between dodge and stealth for your endurance. instead they first removed the unblockable option on rifle wich reduced interaction (i would prefer unblockable rifle 2 with a bit reduced damage and malice reset on blinded/blocked/reflected stealth attacks to improve interaction instead of reduce it) and then reduced the stealth duration per endurance wich also reduces interaction as you will now use more utilities/ini/weaponswap cooldowns for stealth while you still can frequently ENTER stealth uninterruptable.
    so do you want more interaction wich would include more tools for deadeye to actually interact or do you just want dead thieves? if you want more interaction, i would love to hear your ideas on what the deadeye should gain to deal with the ungoing spamm pretty much any class can throw at each other, because i personally am probably too biased as i did play deadeye too long, altho mine are all reduced to PvE gathertoons for a while now.

    It sounds like you have a pretty good idea of the problem and some ideas on how to fix it. I'm not offering solutions because I don't understand the class well enough. I simply observe an obvious problem with the current design.

    I compare it to the recent nerf to evasive mirror. You didn't have to play mirage to know that 2s reflect on evade with no cooldown for a class that evades constantly is not a balanced design. I would have preferred a solution that didn't completely gut the evasive mirror trait, leaving it practically worthless. But it was a trait that was vastly overperforming and needed a change.

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