does this game need a damage % modifier cap for pvp/wvw? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

does this game need a damage % modifier cap for pvp/wvw?

Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

ideally bringing down the one shot potential of all builds, while keeping power burst viable. ahhh, perfect harmony!

Te lazla otstra.

does this game need a damage % modifier cap for pvp/wvw? 49 votes

yes
65% 32 votes
no
34% 17 votes

Comments

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 10, 2019

    in aion (another great mmo) there was a permanent -40% damage done to other players. that -40% could be increased (enemy has pvp armor that gives additional -x% pvp dmg) or decreased as the player (you) had pvp weapon and trinkets giving you +x% pvp dmg

    that worked great as it didn't touch pve aspect at all, while still making sure pvp wasn't 100-0 in a blink

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @melandru.3876 said:
    in aion (another great mmo) there was a permanent -40% damage done to other players. that -40% could be increased (enemy has pvp armor that gives additional -x% pvp dmg) or decreased as the player (you) had pvp weapon and trinkets giving you +x% pvp dmg

    that worked great as it didn't touch pve aspect at all, while still making sure pvp wasn't 100-0 in a blink

    huh, that's pretty interesting. wouldn't work here imo, but good food for thought.

    Te lazla otstra.

  • DeanBB.4268DeanBB.4268 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'd be good with -100% damage to other players.

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  • Rauderi.8706Rauderi.8706 Member ✭✭✭✭

    A leash on bonuses might do well in general, if only to tame PvE power creep. Right now, every boon + unique boon just multiplies out of control. If there were a definitive cap (this would take some deep restructuring) of how much bonus a player could receive, it would matter less to have all those unique effects together and instead have them supplement gaps or require less effort so party comps could loosen up.

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  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:
    in aion (another great mmo) there was a permanent -40% damage done to other players. that -40% could be increased (enemy has pvp armor that gives additional -x% pvp dmg) or decreased as the player (you) had pvp weapon and trinkets giving you +x% pvp dmg

    that worked great as it didn't touch pve aspect at all, while still making sure pvp wasn't 100-0 in a blink

    huh, that's pretty interesting. wouldn't work here imo, but good food for thought.

    yup so a guy in full pvp gear vs a guy in full pvp gear was still -40%

    a guy in full pvp gear attacking a guy in pve gear was -20%

    a guy in pve gear attacking a guy in pvp gear was -60%

    was pretty balanced, also people "capped" crit at +- 40% unlike gw2 where the goal is often to reach 100% and as high ferocity as possible

  • Ben K.6238Ben K.6238 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 10, 2019

    I'm pretty hesitant on this one, but it really could use diminishing returns on damage stats. At the moment the answer to "do I put some hybrid abilities on this or just go more damage?" is always "more damage". There's no particular reason to do anything else because you get a better payoff from putting all your eggs in one basket.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:
    The only issue with a flat reduction to damage is it makes healing / bunker builds even more immortal. I don't think there is an easy answer tbh, though one thing I do notice about GW2 more than other games, is how easy it is to hit 100% crit chance. Maybe that is the key to flattening out the burst; either making sure that each hit doesn't crit, or doesn't crit for as much.

    most one shot builds tear through vitality + toughness and healing as if those stats weren't even there. interesting idea on crit, but with builds that rely on many successive hits there wouldn't be much of an impact (soulbeast longbow auto spam, berserker greatsword f1, thief p/p unload, necro reaper auto spam).

    Te lazla otstra.

  • Regon Phoenix.8215Regon Phoenix.8215 Member ✭✭✭

    When average PVP 1v1 fight last for 1-2 sec, then it should be obvious that whole game needs massive nerf in damage (and healing).
    I play PVP in MMO games for tactical combat, outsmarting other players and building my class to suit my play-style the best. This game have absolutely no tactical combat or outsmarting other players when everyone can one-shot everyone else.
    I would go with blanket 75% to all damage and 85% nerf to all healing on PVP. Maybe then tactical thinking and skillful play would determine outcome in PVP instead of button mashing and ridiculous one-shot-one-kill builds.

  • Ovark.2514Ovark.2514 Member ✭✭✭

    Proposing such a change would be limiting build diversity even more. This is the opposite of what this game needs.

  • Vieux P.1238Vieux P.1238 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Yes! as well as Regen & heal's . Or it becomes unbalance all across the board.

    Winter Nerf is coming!

  • Euthymias.7984Euthymias.7984 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 11, 2019

    I feel like trying to implement something like this and scale it as a balancing factor across different professions and build/spec archetypes wouldn't be practical for Anet. At least not vs just shaving or tweaking the existing modifiers. Furthermore, it could very well end up hurting specs that require conditional modifiers to setup their power damage spikes. Culling both damage and healing will also just make builds that have high evasion/mobility/mitigation to avoid what little burst remains much more effective....

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ovark.2514 said:
    Proposing such a change would be limiting build diversity even more. This is the opposite of what this game needs.

    so you think one shot builds are good for the game? if so why is that?

    Te lazla otstra.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Euthymias.7984 said:
    I feel like trying to implement something like this and scale it as a balancing factor across different professions and build/spec archetypes wouldn't be practical for Anet. At least not vs just shaving or tweaking the existing modifiers. Furthermore, it could very well end up hurting specs that require conditional modifiers to setup their power damage spikes. Culling both damage and healing will also just make builds that have high evasion/mobility/mitigation to avoid what little burst remains would also likely happen....

    you can't really scale down individual skills little by little when the modifiers can reach upwards of +100%.

    Te lazla otstra.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vieux P.1238 said:
    Yes! as well as Regen & heal's . Or it becomes unbalance all across the board.

    imo scaling down one shots wouldn't make sustain more op when sustain has no relevance when getting one shotted. ideally there is some sort of middle ground, somewhere, to where a build with demolishers can still get enough + damage mods to take down a sustain build. no idea where that is, so I didn't try to guess as that would likely lead the convo nowhere.

    Te lazla otstra.

  • Ovark.2514Ovark.2514 Member ✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Ovark.2514 said:
    Proposing such a change would be limiting build diversity even more. This is the opposite of what this game needs.

    so you think one shot builds are good for the game? if so why is that?

    I don't appreciate that straw man. If you wanted to know if people think one shot builds are healthy for the game or not, why didn't you make that your poll? Your current poll is about about putting a cap on damage multiplication. Lets Imagine you were to patch in an arbitrary cap to damage multipliers. I would then have to choose, for instance, if I wanted to use Remorseless on my Soulbeast OR Sic-Um. And while yes, I could take both, I would have to adjust my skill rotations so that they would never be activated at the same time in order to extract the maximum effectiveness from them. This would roll over to many other, previously benign builds and would inevitably reduce build diversity. Simply advocating for an over-all cap to damage multipliers is, pardon my french, a lazy short-term solution.

    As it stands, the one-shot builds in the game can all accomplish their task without outside buffs. Therefore, in order to curb their damage there are two main options: Reduce damage output over-all, or change the traits and skills of individual professions so that no matter how a player builds their character, their damage multipliers cannot exceed a certain threshold.

    So now you want to know if I think one shot builds are good for the game. The answer is actually yes, but not in their current iteration, and not because of any perceived gains I have amassed thanks to them. I think these build should exist because they tickle a part of a certain group of players' brains. These types of players, of which I am a part, get excited by the possibility of specializing so completely that few others would seriously consider it. While the builds should exist, the utility which allows them to be effective in high-level competitive formats should be curbed; most notably that of stealth. I believe this is the most widely satisfying, targeted, and effective solution for placating the community on this subject.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 11, 2019

    On a philosophical level I don't think any skill should single handedly crit for 20k, regardless of build or how glassy one is set up.

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  • Aza.2105Aza.2105 Member ✭✭✭

    They just need to limit how much might a single player can stack on themselves. They would also have to adjust healing, to compensate.

  • Vieux P.1238Vieux P.1238 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 11, 2019

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Vieux P.1238 said:
    Yes! as well as Regen & heal's . Or it becomes unbalance all across the board.

    imo scaling down one shots wouldn't make sustain more op when sustain has no relevance when getting one shotted. ideally there is some sort of middle ground, somewhere, to where a build with demolishers can still get enough + damage mods to take down a sustain build. no idea where that is, so I didn't try to guess as that would likely lead the convo nowhere.

    It's not the one shots that worries me when putting a cap on dps. If you don't scale accordingly (regen, heal's & all sustains & protection tics). You get immortal's builds where they will be able to 1v5 & not go down no matter what. You already have a few classes at the moment that can 1v3. & it's boring to fight. If you scale down any damage output from dps or condies, you need to make sure & scale everything so that either in a 1v1 or more that anyone can die.

    Winter Nerf is coming!

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 12, 2019

    @Ovark.2514 said:
    I don't appreciate that straw man.
    As it stands, the one-shot builds in the game can all accomplish their task without outside buffs. Therefore, in order to curb their damage there are two main options: Reduce damage output over-all, or change the traits and skills of individual professions so that no matter how a player builds their character, their damage multipliers cannot exceed a certain threshold.

    I was merely trying to get you to talk more on why you said what you said. I also enjoy one shot builds from time to time, but I don't think they are at all healthy for any type of play, high level or not. ranger and marksmanship in particular is a special case, and all the bonus multipliers from that trait line are ridiculous. I wouldn't mind at all if multipliers weren't able to all stack on top of each other, cuz like it or not, cheesing people with one shot builds ruins their experience (and tbh isn't fun for very long, unless you enjoy griefing).
    I don't understand this second part at all. what outside buffs are you talking about? reducing damage output overall is what would be less limiting in terms of diversity imo. if you nerfed every trait that gives damage mods, that would be way more devastating. we would be left with a bunch of mediocre traits that would only be somewhat effective when combined together. you can play around caps, you can't play around straight up nerfs.

    Te lazla otstra.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Aza.2105 said:
    They just need to limit how much might a single player can stack on themselves. They would also have to adjust healing, to compensate.

    honestly that seems like a much more elegant solution, but so many traits and skills are tied into might these days I don't know how it could be done. might is also much more accessible and necessary to take down bunkers. maybe just severely limit its duration, so might stacking is more of a bursty type deal.

    Te lazla otstra.

  • Ovark.2514Ovark.2514 Member ✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Ovark.2514 said:
    I don't appreciate that straw man.
    As it stands, the one-shot builds in the game can all accomplish their task without outside buffs. Therefore, in order to curb their damage there are two main options: Reduce damage output over-all, or change the traits and skills of individual professions so that no matter how a player builds their character, their damage multipliers cannot exceed a certain threshold.

    I was merely trying to get you to talk more on why you said what you said. I also enjoy one shot builds from time to time, but I don't think they are at all healthy for any type of play, high level or not. ranger and marksmanship in particular is a special case, and all the bonus multipliers from that trait line are ridiculous. I wouldn't mind at all if multipliers weren't able to all stack on top of each other, cuz like it or not, cheesing people with one shot builds ruins their experience (and tbh isn't fun for very long, unless you enjoy griefing).
    I don't understand this second part at all. what outside buffs are you talking about? reducing damage output overall is what would be less limiting in terms of diversity imo. if you nerfed every trait that gives damage mods, that would be way more devastating. we would be left with a bunch of mediocre traits that would only be somewhat effective when combined together. you can play around caps, you can't play around straight up nerfs.

    Outside buffs meaning that the build doesn't require a different player to give them the 25 might or something like Assasin's Presence (aoe rev buff).

    What I meant by "Change the traits and skills of individual professions" was that certain traits and skills would be modified or shuffled so that they can't be stacked. A good example would be the Beastmastery trait line on Ranger: Pack Alpha, Loud Whistle, Two-Handed Training, Pet's Prowess, and Honed Axes are all individual traits that can be taken simultaneously in this ONE traitline that together grant: 20% more damage, 420 more Ferocity, and 150 more Power for a Maul (situation permitting). Some of these traits could easily be moved to the same Major trait line so that players must make a choice. The two easiest that come to mind are Two-handed training and Honed Axes.

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Im only saying no because it would be another nerf to Elementalist.

    I dont see the logic in nerfing Elementalist to deal with SlB

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  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @sephiroth.4217 said:
    Im only saying no because it would be another nerf to Elementalist.

    I dont see the logic in nerfing Elementalist to deal with SlB

    eh? how you figure lol? and what is this "SIB" you speak of.

    Te lazla otstra.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ovark.2514 said:
    Outside buffs meaning that the build doesn't require a different player to give them the 25 might or something like Assasin's Presence (aoe rev buff).

    What I meant by "Change the traits and skills of individual professions" was that certain traits and skills would be modified or shuffled so that they can't be stacked. A good example would be the Beastmastery trait line on Ranger: Pack Alpha, Loud Whistle, Two-Handed Training, Pet's Prowess, and Honed Axes are all individual traits that can be taken simultaneously in this ONE traitline that together grant: 20% more damage, 420 more Ferocity, and 150 more Power for a Maul (situation permitting). Some of these traits could easily be moved to the same Major trait line so that players must make a choice. The two easiest that come to mind are Two-handed training and Honed Axes.

    huh well yeah if it works it works. some kinda dealio man, some kind.

    Te lazla otstra.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭

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