A refund of Initiative — Guild Wars 2 Forums

A refund of Initiative

Faaris.8013Faaris.8013 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited May 15, 2019 in WvW

A refund of Initiative when my shots are "obstructed" by nothing but thin air.

For those who are not familiar with the concept of Thief: You have no weapon skill cooldown, but a shared pool of points that are used by those skills: Initiative

When I use Unload, it costs me 6 Initiative out of the total 15 I have. It happens quite regularly that I stand right in front of an enemy, use Unload and all my shots are "obstructed". There is nothing that could possibly stand in the way of my bullets. We all know this issue, with different classes. If that happens, I'm basically toast, because with the speed and lag, I can easily have a second Unload in the queue before I can move to a different spot. When I hit Haste before I shoot, I can basically fire three Unloads within less than a second (if I hit and get a refund to fire a third time).

Now, I understand that this issue cannot be fixed easily, that's why it exists for years. It should be easy though to check what happened to the projectiles and trigger an action if the reply is "obstructed". If it is, refund thhe Initiative, or reset the cd. What about the cases where projectiles are really obstructed? Well, maybe add an area flag to the calculation and declare the main area of camps as "no obstruction anywhere".

This issue is a PITA and discourages me from even engaging in camps.

Comments

  • Vegeta.2563Vegeta.2563 Member ✭✭✭

    Without actually seeing video footage, we can't determine what exactly is the cause of the issue.

  • Faaris.8013Faaris.8013 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vegeta.2563 said:
    Without actually seeing video footage, we can't determine what exactly is the cause of the issue.

    Here you go:

  • Warkind.6745Warkind.6745 Member ✭✭✭

    Would be cool if they could make shadowsteps work on the ground under a wall after it's broken.

    All is vain.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭

    Or sb5 actually work across all gaps in wvw

  • XECOR.2814XECOR.2814 Member ✭✭✭

    Did you not think of the possibility that thief will run around spamming unload untill the shots actually hit if what you say is implemented?

  • Faaris.8013Faaris.8013 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @XECOR.2814 said:
    Did you not think of the possibility that thief will run around spamming unload untill the shots actually hit if what you say is implemented?

    And why should hits like the ones shown in the video not hit? The problem is that you do everything right as player, but the map is bugged so your shots get obstructed without any object between you and the target.

  • NuhDah.9812NuhDah.9812 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 13, 2019

    If they would be able to determine when this "refund" should happen, they should have been able to fix the obstruction or other similar port issues that consume initiative while not porting in the first place. But it doesn't seem that's the case.

  • Faaris.8013Faaris.8013 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @XECOR.2814 said:

    @Faaris.8013 said:

    @XECOR.2814 said:
    Did you not think of the possibility that thief will run around spamming unload untill the shots actually hit if what you say is implemented?

    And why should hits like the ones shown in the video not hit? The problem is that you do everything right as player, but the map is bugged so your shots get obstructed without any object between you and the target.

    No, what i mean is if what you said is implemented then thief can keep spamming unload even if people are behind walls and things and instantly connect when they leave cover. Think of it as having a gun with unlimited bullets sprayed on you when you are in cover waiting for you to come out and get hit.

    I mentioned real obstacles in my first post. The engine should know if you are in a building or in the center of a camp. Camps are the most notorious places for this issue to occur.

  • TinkTinkPOOF.9201TinkTinkPOOF.9201 Member ✭✭✭

    @Faaris.8013 said:

    @XECOR.2814 said:

    @Faaris.8013 said:

    @XECOR.2814 said:
    Did you not think of the possibility that thief will run around spamming unload untill the shots actually hit if what you say is implemented?

    And why should hits like the ones shown in the video not hit? The problem is that you do everything right as player, but the map is bugged so your shots get obstructed without any object between you and the target.

    No, what i mean is if what you said is implemented then thief can keep spamming unload even if people are behind walls and things and instantly connect when they leave cover. Think of it as having a gun with unlimited bullets sprayed on you when you are in cover waiting for you to come out and get hit.

    I mentioned real obstacles in my first post. The engine should know if you are in a building or in the center of a camp. Camps are the most notorious places for this issue to occur.

    Or, just fix the map mesh issues.

    "When you power creep the game and make it so that spam gameplay is nearly as effective as deep knowledge and nuance, the quality of players will decrease." -Exedore

  • Faaris.8013Faaris.8013 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Faaris.8013 said:

    @XECOR.2814 said:

    @Faaris.8013 said:

    @XECOR.2814 said:
    Did you not think of the possibility that thief will run around spamming unload untill the shots actually hit if what you say is implemented?

    And why should hits like the ones shown in the video not hit? The problem is that you do everything right as player, but the map is bugged so your shots get obstructed without any object between you and the target.

    No, what i mean is if what you said is implemented then thief can keep spamming unload even if people are behind walls and things and instantly connect when they leave cover. Think of it as having a gun with unlimited bullets sprayed on you when you are in cover waiting for you to come out and get hit.

    I mentioned real obstacles in my first post. The engine should know if you are in a building or in the center of a camp. Camps are the most notorious places for this issue to occur.

    Or, just fix the map mesh issues.

    But that is not happening for many years, I suggest a work around that might be more possible to implement.

  • TinkTinkPOOF.9201TinkTinkPOOF.9201 Member ✭✭✭

    @Faaris.8013 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Faaris.8013 said:

    @XECOR.2814 said:

    @Faaris.8013 said:

    @XECOR.2814 said:
    Did you not think of the possibility that thief will run around spamming unload untill the shots actually hit if what you say is implemented?

    And why should hits like the ones shown in the video not hit? The problem is that you do everything right as player, but the map is bugged so your shots get obstructed without any object between you and the target.

    No, what i mean is if what you said is implemented then thief can keep spamming unload even if people are behind walls and things and instantly connect when they leave cover. Think of it as having a gun with unlimited bullets sprayed on you when you are in cover waiting for you to come out and get hit.

    I mentioned real obstacles in my first post. The engine should know if you are in a building or in the center of a camp. Camps are the most notorious places for this issue to occur.

    Or, just fix the map mesh issues.

    But that is not happening for many years, I suggest a work around that might be more possible to implement.

    Fixing the map mesh is actually pretty easy to do and far easier than the suggestion you have of some sort of location based detection, with skill activation and detection of the map mesh issue, as well as linking it to skill CDs. You would have to build this system around each mesh problem....Or just fix the problem to start with.

    Which was my point in my first post, if they are not going to fix a simple map mesh issue, don't hold your breath for a complex fix like this. In other games, map mesh issues happen all the time with new areas etc, however most other games fix those problems in weekly updates as they are simple bugs.

    "When you power creep the game and make it so that spam gameplay is nearly as effective as deep knowledge and nuance, the quality of players will decrease." -Exedore

  • Skotlex.7580Skotlex.7580 Member ✭✭✭

    At the rate Anet fixes things, we are probably receiving two new borderlands and deprecating alpine before this issue goes away. :P

  • Offair.2563Offair.2563 Member ✭✭✭

    No need to refund, just fix the obstructed that's been around for years for no reason.

    Don't argue with idiots, they drag you down to their level and own you with experience.
    Big Babou, Ranger for life.

  • Sleepwalker.1398Sleepwalker.1398 Member ✭✭✭

    This happens alot more at camps for some reason.
    Maybe they should look there first.

  • Straegen.2938Straegen.2938 Member ✭✭✭

    If a player jumps while this is happening, it often fixes the issue. I often wonder if when the pathing check happens they could apply a slight height differential and solve many of the places with the issue.

  • Kovu.7560Kovu.7560 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Straegen.2938 said:
    If a player jumps while this is happening, it often fixes the issue. I often wonder if when the pathing check happens they could apply a slight height differential and solve many of the places with the issue.

    I've actually suggested this in the past. Have all projectiles determine line of effect as if they're actually slightly higher than visually displayed.

    @LetoII.3782 said:
    Nobody gets their cooldowns back when they flub *shrug

    To be fair, OP is only asking for the initiative refund for an error on the game's end, not their own. (Though I'd prefer they'd just address the actual problem.)

    ~ Kovu

    Ranger main before it was cool.
    Fort Aspenwood.

  • GaijinGuy.8476GaijinGuy.8476 Member ✭✭✭

    I second this. Happens so much in NE and S camp

  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Give everyone a stick instead. Can joust with warclaw.

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • GaijinGuy.8476GaijinGuy.8476 Member ✭✭✭

    @Justine.6351 said:
    Give everyone a stick instead. Can joust with warclaw.

    Sound like fun actually, could be a dismount skill :smile:

  • Inoki.6048Inoki.6048 Member ✭✭✭

    lol, good luck with your demands here :smirk: as if they cared :joy:

  • Zephyra.4709Zephyra.4709 Member ✭✭✭

    Obstructed by a blade of grass, gg. Sorry you cannot teleport over this pebble, but we'll take your initiative anyway.

    This bs has been happening for years... smh.

  • Honestly, that's (slightly) less annoying than being "out of range" when 600 or less from a target. . . .

  • Clownmug.8357Clownmug.8357 Member ✭✭✭

    Ok, I'll go along with this idea if I can get 7 gold every time I perfectly hit another player with Sevenshot.

  • Faaris.8013Faaris.8013 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Clownmug.8357 said:
    Ok, I'll go along with this idea if I can get 7 gold every time I perfectly hit another player with Sevenshot.

    Can you elaborate how you come to this connection?

  • TinkTinkPOOF.9201TinkTinkPOOF.9201 Member ✭✭✭

    @Sleepwalker.1398 said:
    This happens alot more at camps for some reason.
    Maybe they should look there first.

    There are lots of places outside of camps as well, I think camps are known the best however due to the amount of use they get and how often they flip or have fights in them vs a random open map area or in a keep etc. However most of the camp issues have been there as long as I can remember.

    @JonnyForgotten.4276 said:
    Honestly, that's (slightly) less annoying than being "out of range" when 600 or less from a target. . . .

    Like I said above, I consider them in the same class, some of the areas range gets obstructed also block porting. I can't tell you the times I am right next to someone trying to use JI or sword #2 and get this error, or running into a fight, hit JI and it casts and goes on full CD but does not port. After reporting these years ago with video links and nothing happening, I gave up on reporting them, I am sure many others have done the same. Which seems to be anets approach to them, wait long enough and people will just get used to the broken parts of the game.

    "When you power creep the game and make it so that spam gameplay is nearly as effective as deep knowledge and nuance, the quality of players will decrease." -Exedore

  • Anput.4620Anput.4620 Member ✭✭✭

    @Sleepwalker.1398 said:
    This happens alot more at camps for some reason.
    Maybe they should look there first.

    It is because of despawned dolyak corpses that block the projectiles, this is why it happens, wherever a dolyak died basically lays a reflect for a long time.

  • Clownmug.8357Clownmug.8357 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 14, 2019

    @Faaris.8013 said:

    @Clownmug.8357 said:
    Nope, I should stop beating around the bush though. I'll power up my electron microscope so I can play the violin for thief players and their "problems".

    There isn't even a thief in the video I linked to. If you don't play any ranged class and don't care, why are you even here?

    Do you not remember what your own topic's about? Everyone else has to deal with skills being wasted because of obstructed, but you make a stink about it because you can't get your special bonus, though can continue using it unlike most ranged skills.

    @Offair.2563 said:

    @Clownmug.8357 said:
    Nope, I should stop beating around the bush though. I'll power up my electron microscope so I can play the violin for thief players and their "problems".

    I'll play mine for you as any ranged skill can get affected by this obstructed message but nice try though.

    Ok, let's act like obstructed is suddenly a big deal now that thief players can't get their special bonus on one skill.

  • @Anput.4620 said:

    @Sleepwalker.1398 said:
    This happens alot more at camps for some reason.
    Maybe they should look there first.

    It is because of despawned dolyak corpses that block the projectiles, this is why it happens, wherever a dolyak died basically lays a reflect for a long time.

    Huh. Now there's a hypothesis to test.

  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I demand a reeeeefund.

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • Faaris.8013Faaris.8013 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Clownmug.8357 said:

    @Faaris.8013 said:

    @Clownmug.8357 said:
    Nope, I should stop beating around the bush though. I'll power up my electron microscope so I can play the violin for thief players and their "problems".

    There isn't even a thief in the video I linked to. If you don't play any ranged class and don't care, why are you even here?

    Do you not remember what your own topic's about? Everyone else has to deal with skills being wasted because of obstructed, but you make a stink about it because you can't get your special bonus, though can continue using it unlike most ranged skills.

    @Offair.2563 said:

    @Clownmug.8357 said:
    Nope, I should stop beating around the bush though. I'll power up my electron microscope so I can play the violin for thief players and their "problems".

    I'll play mine for you as any ranged skill can get affected by this obstructed message but nice try though.

    Ok, let's act like obstructed is suddenly a big deal now that thief players can't get their special bonus on one skill.

    A solution to the problem would benefit all players who experience it, not only thieves. It sounds like you benefit from not getting hit by shots that should actually harm you in WvW because of the bugged map, is that possible? I can't imagine another reason for you to being against fixing the "obstructed" issue.

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