How about a cooldown to summon the Warclaw after dying? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

How about a cooldown to summon the Warclaw after dying?

Sinmir.6504Sinmir.6504 Member ✭✭

I'm thinking after being defeated how about needing to wait 60 seconds before you can mount a Warclaw? Just thinking of a time I was taking a camp, one guy was trying to defend it, I defeated him a few times, they had claimed it for fast Dolyaks, so whenever one spawned the capturing stopped, then he was able to get back on his warclaw just in time to stop me finish capping. I was using some stealth in this build so that was able to decap my progress. Dolyaks running really fast so It would take me quite a bit away from the camp if I'd pursued.
Before the Warclaw if you defeat the one guy defending a camp unless another enemy player shows up that camp was pretty much yours. Putting a cooldown so you can't just summon a warclaw straight away would help get it back to the way it was.
Other possibilities:
Faster capping, we can now travel to points a lot faster than before. To bridge the gap in balance this can cause between offence and defence filling the circle faster might work.
Taking away the ability for Dolyaks to contest points. A fighter riding the warclaw needs to dismount to contest. If a war mount can't contest why allow a transport Dolyak to? Guards would still spawn and contest but Dolyaks would just spawn and run, or become hostile if the objective they are supposed to supply is owned by another server, not contest.
One other idea but it would quite significantly change the way things are, after being defeated needing to wait 15 seconds to be able to respawn like in PvP.

Comments

  • It's certainly annoying to be dealing with a repeat customer. However, I don't agree with the problem statement: I don't see it as "my right" to cap a camp close to their spawn more quickly than it takes them to return.

    Instead of looking at just the one thing, I'd want ANet to consider the situation more holistically, including the impact of mounts, of respawn timers, of what contests and what doesn't.

    In other words, to me, this doesn't read like a Warclaw issue; it seems like an overall game balance question. What's appropriate for time-to-cap or time-to-return-to-fray? Then ANet can look at addressing the big picture.

    "Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    One of the biggest justifications people used for the Warclaw was quick return to the battle. That includes all battles. Including camp skirmishes. It’s the biggest difficulty with taking a camp near the enemy spawn.

  • Sinmir.6504Sinmir.6504 Member ✭✭

    It was the vale, we were the ones who spawn in the south west corner, I think he was wping from the Bay and traveling from there. I'm just thinking of the way it was before the Warclaw, 2 players on oposing sides, the one trying to cap defeats the defender, without intervention from a third player it was highly unlikely the defender will be able to return on time before the camp was captured.
    I hope I don't sound too entitled here but defeating him while he was defending, he had an advantage of guards on his side. Sure enough it just ended in me beating him a few times over until I finally got it. Still him stalling did provide for the ppt, did get more Dolyaks to the objectives to help upgrade. Probably why he was doing it. Maybe not my right to get it before he can return but does he really deserve to stall that long and get multiple chances when I beat him while he had the advantage?

    The claiming and getting sprinting Dolyaks was the problem, the slow moving ones are easy but those sprinting ones. Maybe just not letting Dolyaks contest a point. With the warclaw not being able to contest it would make sense. Say if it was a similar layout in a modern war game, would you let an NPC supply truck contest but not a player controlled tank?
    I'd say it was an issue that came with the introduction of the Warclaw. Repeat customers in small scale battles were a lot rarer before it was introduced. And any time I'd seen them then there had been at least two, so the first one defeated starts running back while the second one manages to buy them a bit more time.

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 13, 2019

    But you got fights from it right?

    And if you weren’t looking for fights, bring more....

    That’s WvW for you.

  • Defeat does not always mean failure.

    The problem many players seem to have is that they stop having fun or become frustrated as soon as they die. Although there are times this is more understandable than others (eg. it always sucks to be blind sided when you're winning a fight), I think too many people take defeat as reason to give up.

    The excitement should be in the fight. You may eventually be overwhelmed, but there's no reason to let it wipe the smile from your face.

    Not entirely the subject of the thread, but just pointing out that being overrun because it's easy for people to return to a fight shouldn't be reason to stop trying. It just means you have to try a different way.

    [JEEP] [IH] [HUNT] | Necromancer | Maguuma | Diamond Legend
    You've got those dangerous eyes ... ♫

  • Aridon.8362Aridon.8362 Member ✭✭✭

    There is already a thread filled with nerfs to this mount, you may as well just remove it with what you want.

  • HazyDaisy.4107HazyDaisy.4107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Understand while there are frustrations from the perspective of the solo PPT roamers, there are and have always been frustrations from the solo defenders. Yet pretty much anything they can do short of laying down and dying is labeled a defensive advantage and sometimes subsequently nerfed if it gains enough traction, but when nerfed it rarely benefits either the solo PPT roamers or the solo defenders.

    [HaHa] Hazardous Hallucination - Sorrows Furnace

  • DanAlcedo.3281DanAlcedo.3281 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Isnt the warclaw not nerfed enough already?

    And we know more nerfs are comming.

  • @Sinmir.6504 said:
    I'm just thinking of the way it was before the Warclaw,

    I recommend thinking of the way it is now.

    The Warclaw was introduced in part because it would destabilize the same ol stale interactions we've had for most of the last 6+ years. It is supposed to inspire us to do things differently, not simply be a way to do what we always did before, only less so (or more so). Remember: a lot of people wanted to get to fights more quickly, and the mount allows that without creating a new map.

    That doesn't mean things are necessarily better now (or worse). It definitely doesn't mean that the Warclaw is appropriately adjusted to be competitive. And it doesn't mean it's necessarily as fun as possible.

    It does mean that we should look at the big picture and how the mount fits into that.

    So sure, it's more frustrating to solo defend now if you're close to an enemy waypoint. That doesn't mean it's bad for the mode.

    "Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:
    Defeat does not always mean failure.

    The problem many players seem to have is that they stop having fun or become frustrated as soon as they die. Although there are times this is more understandable than others (eg. it always sucks to be blind sided when you're winning a fight), I think too many people take defeat as reason to give up.

    The excitement should be in the fight. You may eventually be overwhelmed, but there's no reason to let it wipe the smile from your face.

    Not entirely the subject of the thread, but just pointing out that being overrun because it's easy for people to return to a fight shouldn't be reason to stop trying. It just means you have to try a different way.

    I had something on topic to say but this is such a great post I'm just going to quote it instead. If I could transfer all of my helpfuls and thumbs up to this poster I would happily do so. This post should be stickied to the top of the wvw board, or maybe just quoted there in its entirety so ppl don't have to click on it to read . . .

  • SpellOfIniquity.1780SpellOfIniquity.1780 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 13, 2019

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:
    Defeat does not always mean failure.

    The problem many players seem to have is that they stop having fun or become frustrated as soon as they die. Although there are times this is more understandable than others (eg. it always sucks to be blind sided when you're winning a fight), I think too many people take defeat as reason to give up.

    The excitement should be in the fight. You may eventually be overwhelmed, but there's no reason to let it wipe the smile from your face.

    Not entirely the subject of the thread, but just pointing out that being overrun because it's easy for people to return to a fight shouldn't be reason to stop trying. It just means you have to try a different way.

    I had something on topic to say but this is such a great post I'm just going to quote it instead. If I could transfer all of my helpfuls and thumbs up to this poster I would happily do so. This post should be stickied to the top of the wvw board, or maybe just quoted there in its entirety so ppl don't have to click on it to read . . .

    Thank you, friend (:

    I do of course understand that losing isn't as fun as winning but, I find it unfortunate how many players would rather give up or get upset after dying. There's no reason to quit just because something is difficult or because a near victory was denied last second. Everyone dies in WvW no matter what.

    As a long time solo/small scale player (and of course zerging as well), I can say from experience that determination is an attitude worth having.


    Anyway, on topic of the thread - the player that kept trying was the one that was doing the right thing. They died multiple times but eventually they won and you (OP) gave up because it was too hard. Though I agree that Mounts weren't perfectly implemented, I don't think the particular situation you're describing is a problem. It's just a matter of not being discouraged and having patience. They stopped you the first time? Be more sneaky the second time, don't get spotted and flip the camp quickly and efficiently. Problem solved.

    [JEEP] [IH] [HUNT] | Necromancer | Maguuma | Diamond Legend
    You've got those dangerous eyes ... ♫

  • Sansar.1302Sansar.1302 Member ✭✭

    Warclaw made wvw way less fun, this is one of a few problems with it.

  • juno.1840juno.1840 Member ✭✭✭

    This is a stupid idea... like one of the dumbest.

    Let's also add no weapon swaps, no boon acquisition, no pips, no waypoint usage... in fact if you replace "warclaw" in your idea with anything else, it's obvious how poorly thought out your concept is.

  • Widmo.3186Widmo.3186 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 13, 2019

    Im not a fan of Warclaw, but...
    Main point of mount in WvW was more fights in less amount of time. Of course it ended the other way, people ride Warclaw in order to escape enemies instead of actually getting into fights but w/e.
    We have now CD after dismounting which doesnt solve the problem because problem are mounted people so after dismounting problem disappears. Now you also want to add CD after dying (1 minute, omegalul) so neither people who want to engage into fights nor people who will skip fights and run from enemies can use mount. Great idea, so why the hell would we even keep this kitty? Just delete it.

    and speaking for myself it wouldnt be worst idea of them all (deleting it, not adding another CD lol), warclaw needs cc immunity nerf or hp nerf, not some kind of CD after dying which affects literally none of existing problems

    Dont mind me, I just randomly spam 35 skill-buttons

  • Sinmir.6504Sinmir.6504 Member ✭✭

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:

    Anyway, on topic of the thread - the player that kept trying was the one that was doing the right thing. They died multiple times but eventually they won and you (OP) gave up because it was too hard. Though I agree that Mounts weren't perfectly implemented, I don't think the particular situation you're describing is a problem. It's just a matter of not being discouraged and having patience. They stopped you the first time? Be more sneaky the second time, don't get spotted and flip the camp quickly and efficiently. Problem solved.

    He didn't win eventually, he died multiple times and I eventually flipped the camp. I could agree he was doing the right thing as he was able to. I'm trying to question why it should be so easy for one player to stall a capture.
    It used to be that if one guy was trying to defend a camp if they are defeated then the camp was yours, there was very little chance they would get back in time to defend.

    @Widmo.3186 said:
    We have now CD after dismounting which doesnt solve the problem because problem are mounted people so after dismounting problem disappears. Now you also want to add CD after dying (1 minute, omegalul) so neither people who want to engage into fights nor people who will skip fights and run from enemies can use mount. Great idea, so why the hell would we even keep this kitty? Just delete it.

    Not a huge problem for people who want to skip or engage in fights. Just a cooldown after being defeated. So i they are trying to defed a camp chances are they'll need to run back on foot, unless you'e got spawn campers though chances are you'd be back on your mount not long after leaving base.

  • Jayden Reese.9542Jayden Reese.9542 Member ✭✭✭

    My problem with threads like this is some rare situation happens to one player and now we must further nerf the warclaw and punish every single player because of it. The only ways someone can keep getting back is if you are that player who can't pull the camp and survive. You sit on the outskirts and pull 1 or 2 npc's at a time and this guy interrupts you. You kill him but a few npcs are still left so he gets back a second time. Somehow you lacked the dps to kill a dolyak and chose to chase it which delayed capping even tho you knew this guy would come back again. Now cause of the lack of dps and you slowly killing npcs they keep respawning and he gets back again. I don't have this problem as one dude doesn't have time to get back even once if you killed him and all the npc's quickly and the most important thing is you stayed in the kitten circle the whole time not chasing dolyaks and blaming warclaw.

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Part of the point was getting back to the fight fast. You were rewarded by winning and they were forced to respawn. No changes needed here.

    Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
    De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
    TheGrimm PoTBS/GW1/WAR/Rift/GW2/MWO/ESO/WoT/WoW/D2/HoTS/Civ6/CU/AoC

  • Shining One.1635Shining One.1635 Member ✭✭✭

    Did you consider downing him outside the circle and letting him bleed out?

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