can we admit that raids have gotten a little too toxic? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

can we admit that raids have gotten a little too toxic?

ive been playing gw2 for 5 years now, and ive seen a lot of good and bad of this game. ill admit i wasn't exactly thrilled when raids where announced. but i figured hey, something new to try. finally wanting to make my set of legendary armor i decided to delve in about a year ago into the raid scene. at first i was lost and confused like my first dungeon runs. expected of a new mode. i started to struggle more and more with finding groups. so i looked into it asked around. found out my build was kitten. unfortunate but not uprising. so i sent a couple weeks farming and crafting a BS warr. made a few other classes along the way. after learning the mechanics and even leading some training raids myself i actually had some fun. so after all that people would finally let me join groups. but now just forming a group is an all day affair. id join a group, we would sit around for an hour till we had 10 ppl. we make one attempt on the boss. someone dies the entire group leaves. kitten.exe. now i see things like this all the time, people kicked for there class, people kicked for joining and asking a question, even when the question was "what role do we need" witch baffled me. people leaving cuz they went down and no one ressed them. people kicking at the end of a run to sell for raids. people trash talking, people blocking for asking a simple question. the list goes on and on. this game used to be the friendliest game i knew i raid and pvp in a lot of games, and ive never seen anything this toxic out side of league of legends. is there no remedy to this? ive tried a lot of things, but theres not much else i can do as an individual. ive looked for static groups, and im currently asking around for a guild, hoping this will finally bring me some relief on the matter. i guess this is really just a vent, about how even when you learn the ins and outs the only hard part of raids is finding a group that will actually make more than one attempt. i get anet wanted more challenging content, nothin wrong with that. but am i the only one who things this has gotten a little to out of hand? i guess ill end there and wait for the endless line of "git gud" comments, but im hoping things might get changed for the better.

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Comments

  • Bawi.9541Bawi.9541 Member ✭✭

    implying that anyone agrees with you, OP

  • derd.6413derd.6413 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Bawi.9541 said:
    implying that anyone agrees with you, OP

    it's the internet, of course somebody agrees with OP

    I Have No friends, so I Must pug

  • Miellyn.6847Miellyn.6847 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 14, 2019

    @sigur.9453 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @SoulPrime.8029 said:
    so i sent a couple weeks farming and crafting a BS warr. made a few other classes along the way. after learning the mechanics and even leading some training raids myself i actually had some fun. so after all that people would finally let me join groups. but now just forming a group is an all day affair. id join a group, we would sit around for an hour till we had 10 ppl. we make one attempt on the boss. someone dies the entire group leaves.

    Yes, PUG raiding can be annoying. What exactly prevents you from joining a guild or a semi static or a discord server? Raids were not designed to be PUGed, the fact that they can be already speaks to their ease.

    THIS!

    How can a community be so stubborn and ignore this fact.
    Raids where never designed for pugging. You also miss out the most fun part of that mode, learning a boss as a group (preferable with people you like = guild/static).
    But somehow PPL that join PUG raids for the loot get annoyed by PPL who join PUG raids for the loot, who would have thought.

    People got trained over the years in other MMORPGs that all content needs to be doable with PUGs. Doesn't matter if the content can provide this out of the box or if difficulty scales are needed. But everything needs to be pugable with success and minor knowledge or it isn't 'accessible'.

  • Deadvillager.1956Deadvillager.1956 Member ✭✭✭

    I feel very sorry for you OP that you have to put up with the worst outliers of the raid community apparently all the time. The current balance should allow you to play almost any DPS at any boss as long as you respect their limitations (as in play condi DPS on strict condi bosses and vice versa). Reaper even becomes more valid every time! There will always be some rotten people but I just cant believe you have never had a good experience PUGing. For me personally I might run into bad squads/commanders maybe somewhere between 5-10% and then I just leave or block the toxic parts.

  • ButcherofMalakir.4067ButcherofMalakir.4067 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I play on EU. I raid for almost 2 years now and I never metany toxicity, outside of training/guild runs I get a kill in few tries, my PUG squad is filled within minutes and I was kicked only once (I would have left anyway I guess) because that guild blamed me for failing mechanic that they didnt understand correctly. After that I explained the commander what they are doing wrong, he thanked me and I wason my way.

    If you are playing in NA then I am sorry for all NA raiders if this is standard but I would have expected that. If you play in EU then you must be very unlucky

  • derd.6413derd.6413 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Miellyn.6847 said:

    @sigur.9453 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @SoulPrime.8029 said:
    so i sent a couple weeks farming and crafting a BS warr. made a few other classes along the way. after learning the mechanics and even leading some training raids myself i actually had some fun. so after all that people would finally let me join groups. but now just forming a group is an all day affair. id join a group, we would sit around for an hour till we had 10 ppl. we make one attempt on the boss. someone dies the entire group leaves.

    Yes, PUG raiding can be annoying. What exactly prevents you from joining a guild or a semi static or a discord server? Raids were not designed to be PUGed, the fact that they can be already speaks to their ease.

    THIS!

    How can a community be so stubborn and ignore this fact.
    Raids where never designed for pugging. You also miss out the most fun part of that mode, learning a boss as a group (preferable with people you like = guild/static).
    But somehow PPL that join PUG raids for the loot get annoyed by PPL who join PUG raids for the loot, who would have thought.

    People got trained over the years in other MMORPGs that all content needs to be doable with PUGs. Doesn't matter if the content can provide this out of the box or if difficulty scales are needed. But everything needs to be pugable with success and minor knowledge or it isn't 'accessible'.

    i wished accessibility stopped being so important when discussing if a game is good or not

    I Have No friends, so I Must pug

  • I can't agree at all with OP from my experience.

  • Lorfi.7562Lorfi.7562 Member ✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @SoulPrime.8029 said:
    @SoulPrime.8029 said:
    people kicking at the end of a run to sell for raids.

    In my 3.5 years of raiding in this game, I have never experienced this. I have never experienced this in fractals too. Not saying it doesn't happen, but it must be very rare or I was insanely lucky. I play on EU, so not sure if EU and US differ here (I would assume not).

    This is a straight lie of OP btw, if you kick a player during a raid kill/attempts it fully resets the boss. Think anet changed this almost a year ago. He might've run into that one horrible pug seller, Sillytune, that made a squad with 2 or 3 friends and rest pugs and then at low % of boss one of his friends (or even think he made a random pug leave) so he could invite a buyer and never gave gold to the other pugs that basically helped sellling the raid and his excuse was that they got a free kill so couldn't complain.

    But because he said he started a year ago, he's straight up lying if he says people get kicked mid kill to sell the raid.

  • Henry.5713Henry.5713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Not going to imply anything here but that wall of text sounds like it was written by someone who has only heard about raids secondhand. And comparing the toxicity in GW2 (no matter which content) with the stuff you see in MOBAs, let alone LoL, is pretty much the best way to lose all of your credibility.

    Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something. ~ Robert Heinlein

  • Lorfi.7562Lorfi.7562 Member ✭✭

    @RaidsAreEasyAF.8652 said:

    @Lorfi.7562 said:
    This is a straight lie of OP btw, if you kick a player during a raid kill/attempts it fully resets the boss.

    It doesnt even reset the boss. You cant kick if anyone in your squad is in combat.

    woops mb sorry wasn't sure if it resets the boss or was impossible to kick, but doesn't change the fact OP was lying about this fact cause it's still impossible.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lorfi.7562 said:

    @RaidsAreEasyAF.8652 said:

    @Lorfi.7562 said:
    This is a straight lie of OP btw, if you kick a player during a raid kill/attempts it fully resets the boss.

    It doesnt even reset the boss. You cant kick if anyone in your squad is in combat.

    woops mb sorry wasn't sure if it resets the boss or was impossible to kick, but doesn't change the fact OP was lying about this fact cause it's still impossible.

    it do reset the boss if someone rage quit the team tho.

  • Clyan.1593Clyan.1593 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 15, 2019

    Raid wings, dungeons, fractal cms, even the forums have always been kind of "too toxic". Sometimes its more reasonable, sometimes its just plain dumb. You have to deal with it.

  • sarkysek.1085sarkysek.1085 Member ✭✭✭

    @Krzysztof.5973 said:
    No.

    ive been playing gw2 for 5 years now, and ive seen a lot of good and bad of this game

    I think you missed how strict people were when it comes to dungeon speedclears.

    now i see things like this all the time, people kicked for there class

    Because some classes under-perform and we have so-called "meta" for pugs so we know what to expect from somebody playing their class.

    people kicked for joining and asking a question, even when the question was "what role do we need" witch baffled me

    If squad is 9/10 on lfg and they're looking for specific build I can see that happen. Kicking others for that is just over-exaggerating.

    people leaving cuz they went down and no one ressed them.

    I feel sorry for you if those are the people you play with.

    people trash talking, people blocking for asking a simple question

    Some are just tiered. That's what over 3 years of raiding and only 1 wing per year does to people. Asking stupid questions in non-training runs get annoy some commanders.

    You weren't paying attention if you just noticed that small portion of people in endgame content can be harsh. It's not a place for you if you expect everyone to hold hands and dance in a circle. Mistakes can cause wipe and waste time of 9 other people in the squad so some thing are expected of you. I've seen "toxic casuals" than I see people kicking from their squad for no reason.

    And that, my friend, is the reason why raids and people who act like you do have no place in this friendly game.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Krzysztof.5973 said:
    I think you missed how strict people were when it comes to dungeon speedclears.

    lol, this was a good laugh. cuz they were SO hard. I ran into extreme try hard ppl maybe twice during this dungeon meta.

    The horror...…….the horror...…….the horror...…….

  • sokeenoppa.5384sokeenoppa.5384 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Blocki.4931 said:

    @sarkysek.1085 said:

    @Krzysztof.5973 said:
    No.

    ive been playing gw2 for 5 years now, and ive seen a lot of good and bad of this game

    I think you missed how strict people were when it comes to dungeon speedclears.

    now i see things like this all the time, people kicked for there class

    Because some classes under-perform and we have so-called "meta" for pugs so we know what to expect from somebody playing their class.

    people kicked for joining and asking a question, even when the question was "what role do we need" witch baffled me

    If squad is 9/10 on lfg and they're looking for specific build I can see that happen. Kicking others for that is just over-exaggerating.

    people leaving cuz they went down and no one ressed them.

    I feel sorry for you if those are the people you play with.

    people trash talking, people blocking for asking a simple question

    Some are just tiered. That's what over 3 years of raiding and only 1 wing per year does to people. Asking stupid questions in non-training runs get annoy some commanders.

    You weren't paying attention if you just noticed that small portion of people in endgame content can be harsh. It's not a place for you if you expect everyone to hold hands and dance in a circle. Mistakes can cause wipe and waste time of 9 other people in the squad so some thing are expected of you. I've seen "toxic casuals" than I see people kicking from their squad for no reason.

    And that, my friend, is the reason why raids and people who act like you do have no place in this friendly game.

    And people who are bad have no place in a squad that just wants to clear. I see no issue there.

    Agree, this game has room for both kind of players. Im leading a Raid guild that is very friendly and we have Raid trainings with 0 toxic, but when im doing my clears, i wanna do it with like minded ppl with equal skill lvl. Nothing wrong in that IMO.

    I'll have two number 9s, a number 9 large, a number 6 with extra dip, a number 7, two number 45s, one with cheese, and a large soda.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭

    this is GUILDwars, so find Guild and close the question. For example in our non Elgish speaking guild we have 3 diferent static group for raids. If you know language I am sure you can find very nice guild wiht inner cont raid parties, and have fun.
    If you join in random player - you should have randomized result.

  • ButcherofMalakir.4067ButcherofMalakir.4067 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I am sorey OP but i dont see any toxicity in this thread. If there is someone toxic it is you.

  • Henry.5713Henry.5713 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 16, 2019

    The real irony is the fact that people seem to assume negative behaviour of a certain kind can't be done by any member of their own group out of principal simply because they supposedly experience said behaviour more often than members of other groups. To then proceide to instantly pull cards on people as soon as they dare to disagree. You know, the "S-", "R-", "H-" and in this case the "T-card". An act which displays far more prejudice against these certain groups they are trying to blame.

    Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something. ~ Robert Heinlein

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭

    "ac full clear 1 mesmer and 3 war full zerk. link gear, 10k ap"

    since 2012, yet somehow the toxicity started all years later with raids.

    ye, people have the option to decide who they can play with, and with who they don't.

  • rabenpriester.7129rabenpriester.7129 Member ✭✭✭

    I mean, you're free to make your own groups. It's just that nobody will carry you then and it takes you twenty hours. To each their own.

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SoulPrime.8029 said:
    my post about things being toxic, got toxic. this is ironic

    Have you ever tried to just clear fractals and somebody without experience joined? You will take far longer. Why is that okay, but the moment somebody wants this in raids it is toxic? Makes no sense. Almost as if people just throw that term around.

    Smugly chuckling forever.
    My sentence doesn't make sense? Well, I probably forgot to write half of it before posting.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @sokeenoppa.5384 said:
    During the dungeon meta LFG was full of "P1 10k AP zerk warrior link Gear" posts.

    and that was hard to achieve? only warriors were wanted? lol I could find groups with my necro.

    The horror...…….the horror...…….the horror...…….

  • ButcherofMalakir.4067ButcherofMalakir.4067 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 16, 2019

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @sokeenoppa.5384 said:
    During the dungeon meta LFG was full of "P1 10k AP zerk warrior link Gear" posts.

    and that was hard to achieve? only warriors were wanted? lol I could find groups with my necro.

    You can find raid squads with your necro too. Speed and succes will not probably be very high in both cases.

  • I love how some people ignore the fact that dungeon speedruns were a thing and you would get kicked for running weird build.

  • gateless gate.8406gateless gate.8406 Member ✭✭✭

    Lead your own group. Raid groups are the one area of the game where the leader actually has power to enforce the culture they want; normal parties don't allow you to kick people, only start a "vote kick."

    I lead my own raids. If people are toxic, I kick immediately and without hesitation.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    lol ok. ppl want to believe dungeon clears were somehow op leet status when casual groups did fine. even if 3/5 ppl were good you could still pull it off ok. xp is truly subjective.

    The horror...…….the horror...…….the horror...…….

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    lol ok. ppl want to believe dungeon clears were somehow op leet status when casual groups did fine. even if 3/5 ppl were good you could still pull it off ok. xp is truly subjective.

    "Pull it off" is a different thing than getting through good and far away from a perfect pug run with no wipe, decent phasings, smooth skippings. Not to speak from portals if you had a decent mesmer knowing some shortcuts.
    You can't compare stuff if you haven't run dungeons on a daily basis.

    I did Arah full runs every day (without exploiting) and there was a huge difference if you had 3 or 5 good players. Especially when non-decent players were "keeping" the NPCs. You were lucky when those players died and the NPC switched follower and unlucky when they died in a mob group and won't respawn next to the group on a waypoint. To run Arah P4 without 5 decent players was a nightmare before HoT. I literally had to leave groups I joined at Simin (Priestess of Dwayna) because they had 0 chance to overcome the encounter or I remembered countless tries of explanation at ghosts on Priest of Grenth. People neither understood to stand in the circles nor hitting the boss asap when it jumps to your mark. I was faster duoing with a friend on so many occasions. Last but not least Lupicus - I can't also count the amount of situations where I was last man standing entering phase 2 at 75% and soloed the boss after granting 2-3 tries to the group and suiciding myself so they can restart & experience the fight more than once.
    In addition there were several paths you couldn't run with non-zerker pugs in your daily routine like for example CM P2, CoF P3, SE P2 and more - not - possible! Even AC P2 was a pain in the axx when trying to play Ghostbusters and ppl shot skill 2 at the boss and then trying to kill all mates.

  • Wiler.9873Wiler.9873 Member ✭✭

    This again... I quited the game for a while until a solution came out, if you want a legy armor but can't do raids you could go for pvp o wvw, if you dislike those armors and really want the raid one, start chopping wood to buy the raids I can't do with normal people.

    That's what I did , or you could force your friends to "git gud" using a whip.

  • SunTzu.4513SunTzu.4513 Member ✭✭✭

    Seems this theme never get old... Easiest way to avoid all of this is to run in a static or guild group. Raids are not that difficult. I'm part of an non ts guild and we raid sucessfull. We are so casual that we even only use the sc builds as rough guideline and take all classes and nearly all kind of more or less effective builds with us. Sometimes we even got an MM Necro or an good old Bearbow in our groups. We might not be the fastest on clearing this contend but the fun is with us.

  • sokeenoppa.5384sokeenoppa.5384 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 16, 2019

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    lol ok. ppl want to believe dungeon clears were somehow op leet status when casual groups did fine. even if 3/5 ppl were good you could still pull it off ok. xp is truly subjective.

    And you can do w4 Raid boss alone.. so why are ppl saying that its hard to find groups

    I'll have two number 9s, a number 9 large, a number 6 with extra dip, a number 7, two number 45s, one with cheese, and a large soda.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vinceman.4572 said:
    snips

    dood, just stop. ive done plenty of perfect or near perfect pug runs. way to use arah, the one and only exception lol.

    The horror...…….the horror...…….the horror...…….

  • Nephalem.8921Nephalem.8921 Member ✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Vinceman.4572 said:
    snips

    dood, just stop. ive done plenty of perfect or near perfect pug runs. way to use arah, the one and only exception lol.

    Arah was the only exception? CM with a good group took like 15min. An average pug group needed that for p3 alone. The average speedrun group needed like 1/3 of the time of what you would call a perfect pug run probably.
    People did full dungeon tours back then and it's i difference if you need the whole day or just 2h for that. Especially if players don't have that much time.
    Different kind of people exist. Killing a boss is not always enough for some players. Maybe they enjoy killing it fast or with a strange composition. Kicking an engi when the lfg asked for 10 necros isn't toxic, it's what the people want to do. Yes you can kill a boss with 2-3 healers and 10k dps average but thats not what some players want from raids. Don't join groups that ask for 500+ li and 150+kp if you don't want to tryhard, it's that simple.
    I've lots of LI and i've actually never seen anyone getting kicked for a bit too low dps or not meta classes. They get kicked for joining on something like warrior when the lfg asked for a druid. Players get kicked for dps if they have chrono level dps which actually happens quite often. Not even sure how they do it because autoattack should already deal double of that.
    I play reaper regularly in raids and i've never been kicked for playing reaper and it is one of the most hated specs. Well just for eating the "wrong" shroom at sloth which was actually the right one but thats another 50li pug story.

  • CETheLucid.3964CETheLucid.3964 Member ✭✭✭

    I'm not so sure. If anything they're a bleeding community and really relaxing their standards. If you show just the slightest interest in improving yourself, someone will tell you what to do and train with you. You might even find a core group of players to play with.

    Despite the meme, no ones expecting perfect SnowCrows numbers. People just don't want you to be dead weight entirely.

  • I don't raid, but as a PVE commander I've noticed an increase in toxicity lately. I quit hosting Maw of Torment at night because everybody who'd join up was the terrible triad of entitled, mean, and dumb. They would complain that I gave them directions, refuse to follow directions, then get mad at me for being a "bad commander" when the event inevitably fails due to not following my directions. This isn't just one guy on one night, either. It is everybody, every night. After about 5 consecutive nights of this happening (different players, same roles), I just quit bothering.

    The core PoF maps are currently populated by new players. They use the instant 80 boost and immediately go to where the brand new expansion pack takes them. This... paints a scary picture to the current direction of the player base. If everyone coming into the has this attitude, then it does not bode well for the future of the game.

    "Self awareness is knowing when you're sitting at the throne of ignorance." --Leo G.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:
    I don't raid, but as a PVE commander I've noticed an increase in toxicity lately. I quit hosting Maw of Torment at night because everybody who'd join up was the terrible triad of entitled, mean, and dumb. They would complain that I gave them directions, refuse to follow directions, then get mad at me for being a "bad commander" when the event inevitably fails due to not following my directions. This isn't just one guy on one night, either. It is everybody, every night. After about 5 consecutive nights of this happening (different players, same roles), I just quit bothering.

    The core PoF maps are currently populated by new players. They use the instant 80 boost and immediately go to where the brand new expansion pack takes them. This... paints a scary picture to the current direction of the player base. If everyone coming into the has this attitude, then it does not bode well for the future of the game.

    Looks like you got a taste what raiding commanders have to deal with mate sorry to hear that.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭

    but I don't find how much hours/days your spent on training golem wiht dps check after last patch ?

  • Omnicron.2467Omnicron.2467 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 17, 2019

    @sigur.9453 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @SoulPrime.8029 said:
    so i sent a couple weeks farming and crafting a BS warr. made a few other classes along the way. after learning the mechanics and even leading some training raids myself i actually had some fun. so after all that people would finally let me join groups. but now just forming a group is an all day affair. id join a group, we would sit around for an hour till we had 10 ppl. we make one attempt on the boss. someone dies the entire group leaves.

    Yes, PUG raiding can be annoying. What exactly prevents you from joining a guild or a semi static or a discord server? Raids were not designed to be PUGed, the fact that they can be already speaks to their ease.

    THIS!

    How can a community be so stubborn and ignore this fact.
    Raids where never designed for pugging. You also miss out the most fun part of that mode, learning a boss as a group (preferable with people you like = guild/static).
    But somehow PPL that join PUG raids for the loot get annoyed by PPL who join PUG raids for the loot, who would have thought.

    Please educate me here, I have two guilds that do raiding, the one is still training and learning w1-4 and the other guild has a static group and only makes a second group for training if they have enough people and sadly they stop raidining once the static is done with the newest wing. I have never found out how to get a training raid group for w5-6 despite asking a few times and even making a post on the forum. So how do I get into this. I even thought that on the day after the release of w6 I would find training groups but most of the groups already asked for kp or knowledge of the mechanics and had no interest in training people.

  • ButcherofMalakir.4067ButcherofMalakir.4067 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Omnicron.2467 said:

    @sigur.9453 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @SoulPrime.8029 said:
    so i sent a couple weeks farming and crafting a BS warr. made a few other classes along the way. after learning the mechanics and even leading some training raids myself i actually had some fun. so after all that people would finally let me join groups. but now just forming a group is an all day affair. id join a group, we would sit around for an hour till we had 10 ppl. we make one attempt on the boss. someone dies the entire group leaves.

    Yes, PUG raiding can be annoying. What exactly prevents you from joining a guild or a semi static or a discord server? Raids were not designed to be PUGed, the fact that they can be already speaks to their ease.

    THIS!

    How can a community be so stubborn and ignore this fact.
    Raids where never designed for pugging. You also miss out the most fun part of that mode, learning a boss as a group (preferable with people you like = guild/static).
    But somehow PPL that join PUG raids for the loot get annoyed by PPL who join PUG raids for the loot, who would have thought.

    Please educate me here, I have two guilds that do raiding, the one is still training and learning w1-4 and the other guild has a static group and only makes a second group for training if they have enough people and sadly they stop raidining once the static is done with the newest wing. I have never found out how to get a training raid group for w5-6 despite asking a few times and even making a post on the forum. So how do I get into this. I even thought that on the day after the release of w6 I would find training groups but most of the groups already asked for kp or knowledge of the mechanics and had no interest in training people.

    My guild raid 2 times per week. We do W1+ in one day and continue the second day (we skip wing 4 if we dont do it first day since it is easily pugable and we dont do deimos). If the squad is doing well and we do all boses quickly we do something we need training in like largos or dhuum.

    Sometimes we have newer players or we play badly so we dont get to the hard stuff. Obviously if we cannot do easy bosses we will not be able to do the harder ones.

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