I see big "Sic 'Em!" problem - Page 3 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

I see big "Sic 'Em!" problem

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  • bOTEB.1573bOTEB.1573 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Vithzerai.3291 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:
    I am completely serious about the post.
    My ranger feels super weak without "Sic 'Em!".
    And when this skill has so big CD ranger profession is barely playable outside of PVE.

    It doesn't follow that Sic em needs a buff. If anything ... if Sic Em is so critical to making your performance ... indicates a nerf is necessary.

    As long as they compensate said nerf in other areas, which anet are none too fond of doing.

    They shouldnt compensate anything

    Yes, they should... Soulbeast is underperforming anyway.

    Wishlist:
    Everything that kills me should be nerfed
    Remove all time gates - I play more than some people yet I receive the same rewards per day/week (PvP/WvW tickets etc)
    ANET developments/events and everything else should be in a schedule with the time I play

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vithzerai.3291 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:
    I am completely serious about the post.
    My ranger feels super weak without "Sic 'Em!".
    And when this skill has so big CD ranger profession is barely playable outside of PVE.

    It doesn't follow that Sic em needs a buff. If anything ... if Sic Em is so critical to making your performance ... indicates a nerf is necessary.

    As long as they compensate said nerf in other areas, which anet are none too fond of doing.

    We all know that's not how things work.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • bOTEB.1573bOTEB.1573 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Vithzerai.3291 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:
    I am completely serious about the post.
    My ranger feels super weak without "Sic 'Em!".
    And when this skill has so big CD ranger profession is barely playable outside of PVE.

    It doesn't follow that Sic em needs a buff. If anything ... if Sic Em is so critical to making your performance ... indicates a nerf is necessary.

    As long as they compensate said nerf in other areas, which anet are none too fond of doing.

    We all know that's not how things work.

    Hmm, please enlighten us - how the things work?

    Wishlist:
    Everything that kills me should be nerfed
    Remove all time gates - I play more than some people yet I receive the same rewards per day/week (PvP/WvW tickets etc)
    ANET developments/events and everything else should be in a schedule with the time I play

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 9, 2019

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Vithzerai.3291 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:
    I am completely serious about the post.
    My ranger feels super weak without "Sic 'Em!".
    And when this skill has so big CD ranger profession is barely playable outside of PVE.

    It doesn't follow that Sic em needs a buff. If anything ... if Sic Em is so critical to making your performance ... indicates a nerf is necessary.

    As long as they compensate said nerf in other areas, which anet are none too fond of doing.

    We all know that's not how things work.

    Hmm, please enlighten us - how the things work?

    I know they don't work like the poster suggested and there are lots of example of it. I also know you aren't going to make a compelling argument to buff to a skill that you claim makes you perform so highly. I guess maybe you are just unaware of the history of this game. I advise you start paying attention.

    Ask Guardians how that worked out for them on Righteous Instincts.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • bOTEB.1573bOTEB.1573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 9, 2019

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Vithzerai.3291 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:
    I am completely serious about the post.
    My ranger feels super weak without "Sic 'Em!".
    And when this skill has so big CD ranger profession is barely playable outside of PVE.

    It doesn't follow that Sic em needs a buff. If anything ... if Sic Em is so critical to making your performance ... indicates a nerf is necessary.

    As long as they compensate said nerf in other areas, which anet are none too fond of doing.

    We all know that's not how things work.

    Hmm, please enlighten us - how the things work?

    I know they don't work like the poster suggested and there are lots of example of it. I also know you aren't going to make a compelling argument to buff to a skill that you claim makes you perform so highly. I guess maybe you are just unaware of the history of this game. I advise you start paying attention.

    Ask Guardians how that worked out for them on Righteous Instincts.

    So speculations, and you don't know how the things work. There are lots of examples that the things work like the poster suggests.
    I didn't claim that I perform highly with sic 'em, you gotta read more carefully. I said without sic 'em the damage is super weak and if you can read my OP you will understand that only sic 'em kinda normalize the damage of the soulbeast (I have used the word MEDIOCRE which means: of only average quality; not very good), which other professions can squeeze almost permanently without such cooldown of 35 sec.

    "I advise you start paying attention. " - no words...

    Wishlist:
    Everything that kills me should be nerfed
    Remove all time gates - I play more than some people yet I receive the same rewards per day/week (PvP/WvW tickets etc)
    ANET developments/events and everything else should be in a schedule with the time I play

  • CETheLucid.3964CETheLucid.3964 Member ✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Vithzerai.3291 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:
    Has anyone stopped to think if it isn't viable in top tier play then it wouldnt matter if it got nerfed or not? It actually reinforces the idea that the kit overall needs adjusting.

    You guys are acting like Sic Em is make or break for the entire kits viability.

    I did learn a lot from these threads though, Ive been using Sic Em wrong..
    Ive been using it with Worldy Impact instead of Longbow 2.

    But the majority of people aren't suggesting the kit be adjusted, they're asking for a straight up downgrade. I notice for the most part a lack of suggestion as for how to make the rest of the kit viable. (Not saying from you personally, just in general) And granted, that's not their responsibility, but you see my point?

    In fact I remember reading a post from either this forum or another recently that said something like, "You can even keep the damage bonus for the pet, just nerf it for the player when they merge." As if for a single second it could even be considered a problem outside of the bonus player damage.

    Well a suggestion like that returns Sic Em back to its intended design...

    "If" the kit isn't viable at top tier (and I would have thought vallun/trev would be top tier), then maybe they can share why they struggle at thier rank.
    Do they need more stab like Tempest does?
    Do they need better mobility?
    Do they need more damage?
    Do they need more sustain?

    Then at what point do we recognize the fact that a lot of players are used to playing against the same players on thier same builds? Because playstyles adjust accordingly to experience with dealing with certain players and the way they use thier class. Is Ranger not "viable" because its 1 dimensional for example.

    I expect @Trevor Boyer.6524 to write in depth on this at some stage.

    @kin korn karn.9023 already wrote up a good summary of the situation. Let me toss a couple case scenarios that will better explain where the Ranger mains are coming from with their statements in this thread.

    Case Scenario 1 - I am playing Gank "My DPS Soulbeast" in a game vs. a bunch of Gold 3 and Gold 2 opponents, maybe there is a Plat 1 in there somewhere.

    • I am on RED team and we are: FB/Necro/Herald/Spellbreaker/DPS Soulbeast. The BLUE team is FB/Necro/Herald/Spellbreaker/Condi Mirage.
    • We are in Legacy and I go to mid on the initial split. I follow the Spellbreaker far at first and then turn around and go to mid to sit on the opponent's mid ledge.
    • The opponents can clearly see me on the ledge as they are approaching mid. The opponents continue to push into the center of mid with their FB/Necro/Herald. They completely disregard my positioning. Even the opponent Herald chooses to disregard me and attack our Necromancer.
    • I notice it is safe to unleash every single CD that I have because no one is applying pressure to me. I begin free-casting with LB#5 first, then pop Sic Em before LB#2ing the FB, the FB goes down, I use LB#3 to stealth off his body, I rush off the ledge and into the mid fight while stealthed with Gazelle F2 merge skill, Sic Em is still active on the FB's body, I swap to GS and Maul into WI into Hilt Bash and Maul again, FB dies along with anyone who chose to stand there and try to revive him.
    • I commence the next phase of my job, which similar to a Thief role, is moving around the map and catching players by surprise during their rotations, so I can hit them hard before they hit me and hopefully down them before they even get to the nodes. The opponent players have poor map awareness if they are even looking at their mini map at all. They rarely notice my positioning. Eventually they begin to treat me as some kind of environmental hazard that should be avoided instead of engaged. Due to this, they allow me to free-cast vs. them the entire game. When they are off node and I engage them, most of them do try to utilize terrain to block projectiles, but they tunnel vision the idea that "they must reach the node at all costs" and as such they never stop to actually pressure me. When they get on the node they seem to believe they must stay on the node, and begin to disregard anti-LOS tactics. They also seem to expect that I will follow them onto the node, and then get frustrated when they arrive on the node, but I am 1500 range away, firing a LB at them. Not once in the match does the Herald or Condi Mirage attempt to pressure & neutralize me. They only play on the nodes and only ever walk in straight lines from one node to the next, as if it were a golden rule that should never be broken.
    • At the end of the match I am met with remarks from the opponent team such as: "Soulbeast is broken" "Play something that requires skill" "Your Ranger is hacking" Over the course of many matches and seeing the same faces, these players begin to regard me as some kind of untouchable & omnipresent source of damage. But the truth is, they just can't see around their "get to the nodes and stay on the nodes" tunnel visioning, and most of them didn't even fully understand their job roles. In a match where I am against Herald and a Condi Mirage, I should never once in that match be allowed to free-cast burst anything. I should be being pressured so hard that it should be difficult to even consider targeting anything other than the guy who is pressuring me with a counter.

    Case Scenario 2 - Same exact situation, but now I am playing in an AT with a Plat 2 team, and we are against a Plat 2 team.

    • I am on RED team and we are: FB/Necro/Herald/Spellbreaker/DPS Soulbeast. The BLUE team is FB/Necro/Herald/Spellbreaker/Condi Mirage.
    • We are in Legacy and I go to mid on the initial split. I follow the Spellbreaker far at first and then turn around and go to mid to sit on the opponent's mid ledge.
    • As soon as the opponents see me even approaching the ledge, they begin to take advantage of anti-LOS tactics. The opponent FB & Necro stand behind the little cement building that sits slightly off node of mid, to block my LOS. The opponent Herald immediately drops what he is doing and jumps me. Herald is 1 of the 2 super counters vs. DPS Soulbeast. He knows he can completely neutralize me and kill me easily if he keeps pressuring me, and that I cannot kill him unless he seriously fumbles. But rather than chase me for the 1v1 off node, he is smart. He pressures me only long enough to bait the Sic Em when I must counter pressure him, and then he goes back to mid, knowing there will be roughly a 30s downtime before I am dangerous again. He also knows that I won't be entering any 3v3 team fights at mid with no Sic Em active because I won't kill damage, and Soulbeast DPSers are like Thieves, they can't roll around in a mid fight and survive very long, even if they have support on them. So the Herald knows I must stay off node and pew pew with weak damage until Sic Em is once again active. I have been neutralized to such a point, that the opponent team is able to temporarily disregard me completely.
    • There is no reason to stand and pew mid with no Sic Em active. Pewing with LB#1s or LB#2s vs. a 3v3 where the opponents have 2 good supports present, is usually a waste of time unless your judgement tells you that your damage would indeed be enough to tip the scales in your team's favor and create a wipe. Normally in this situation it is best to rotate for a decap while your CDs refresh. The 3v3 looks like it isn't budging at mid and no one is pushing our home, so I go to + my Spellbreaker who is at far vs. a Condi Mirage.
    • As soon as the Condi Mirage sees me coming, he just leaves. He doesn't stand there with the golden rule in mind, he just leaves and peels around near his spawn. He is smart enough to know that if he stays he is going to die and grant our team +5 points and then we are going to cap the node anyway so he just leaves. I assume he's headed to mid. My Spellbreaker is now finishing the cap on far so I head back to mid. As soon as I get near the ledge, the Condi Mirage jumps me up the steps. This is the other super counter vs. DPS Soulbeast. You can't kill it unless you land the 2 shot Maul into WI, and this is a great deal more difficult to do than it seems. You have little time to do this because the DPS Soulbeast's condi clears are few and infrequent. If you can't pull something sneaky vs. the Condi Mirage to be able to land those 2 shots, you aren't going to win. The condi attrition will work fast on the DPS Soulbeast if it doesn't run. Rapid Firing and ranged? Nah it doesn't work vs. Condi Mirage. It doesn't deal enough immediate damage to provide a kill opportunity before the Mirage spams Mirage Cloaks to stop it, and counter pressures the DPS Soulbeast. Remember, we are talking about DPS Soulbeasts with Sic Em here, not sustain Boonbeast builds. The Herald and the Condi Mirage share one big thing in common when they go to pressure the DPS Soulbeast and that is, the DPS Soulbeast cannot disengage the fight unless the Herald or Condi Mirage really gets juked hard. They are able to stay on the DPS Soulbeast and apply such consistent pressure that it forces the DPS Soulbeast to have to drop what he's doing and engage the 1v1 on the spot. It forces the Soulbeast to have to use Sic Em for kill opportunity, because if it doesn't, the Herald or Condi Mirage will kill the DPS Soulbeast long before non Sic Em damage could kill a Herald or Condi Mirage. So the issue here is that the DPS Soulbeast gets 10s to be able to kill a Herald or Condi Mirage. If that 10s burst doesn't land right, the DPS Soulbeast dies. More often than not vs. Heralds and Condi Mirages, the DPS Soulbeast will lose.
    • So the Condi Mirage has jumped me, but I am close to the team fight at Mid. I tell my Scourge in Discord to target the Mirage briefly so I can disengage and run to the Home node. I see the opponent Spellbreaker is headed there. My Scourge provides cover pressure and I LB#3 stealth off the opponent Scourge at mid, and then I GS#3 and Gazelle F2 my way across Mid and head over to Home. The Condi Mirage disengages his pursuit and stays to team fight at mid which is now a 4v4 when my Spellbreaker shows up from Far.
    • I move towards Home quickly enough to defend our cap, but as soon as the Spellbreaker sees me, rather than keep pushing into my Home node, he charges me off node, which is the best thing he could do. As soon as I pop Sic Em, he dodge rolls off the rocky ledge and begins to utilize anti-LOS tactics. He is also keen to avoid my Maul & WI when I attempt to clip him through an obstacle. As soon as the Sic Em ends, he is smart and knows I'm not so dangerous for the next 30s. He continues to go to my Home node and begins to decap it. He knows that I won't be going to stand on the node to defend it vs. a Spellbreaker, with no Sic Em to pop. In this situation, I try to land as much damage as I can with LB#1 autos, LB#2s and LB#5 while I wait for Sic Em to recharge. The Spellbreaker is smart, he hides behind the minecart on our Home node so I can't auto him, but I can still hit him with LB#5. I move up around the rocky ledge that goes slightly behind our Home node so I can hit him with autos. I am trying to bait him off the node to stop his full cap, while positioning myself to optimize the amount of time I have to refresh CDs. What I am trying to do, is bait his Rampage. If I can't bait the Rampage and have enough defensive CDs ready to engage it, and then respond with Sic Em melee, I can't kill the Spellbreaker. He takes the bait and is smart enough to leave the node so he isn't auto'd to death. But he is also smart enough to come up the ledge at me and shorter my duration of time to be able to refresh my CDs. Luckily, most of them are back. I jump down onto the node and allow the Spellbreaker to engage me melee range, I am trying to bait his Rampage. He's being smart and not using it. I begin to panic, because soon I will be forced to retreat because I cannot use Sic Em until he uses his Rampage. I go to GS#3 and Gazelle F2 away up the hill to mid. As soon as he sees me GS#3 off the node towards mid, he pops Rampage and Throws Boulder. He actually hits me with it and I have no stability on as I was saving it for Rampage. But I was far enough up the hill to where I am able to get up before he connects with a gap closer. I LB#3 stealth and reposition as I pop my stability right as I am revealed. He closes in with another gap closer and I can see his Rampage is about to end. As soon as the Rampage ends, I blow my full Sic Em buffs and push the offense. Although I would say DPS Soulbeast vs. Spellbreaker is a balanced match, it isn't an easy one. This is generally a match up where whoever messes up first, is the person who loses. I go in for the offense and barely win vs. the Spellbreaker, with only about 10% of my health bar remaining when he gets downed. Now I can begin the decap on our Home node.
    • By the time I had downed the Spellbreaker and began the decap, it was 3 minutes into the match, and I had done nothing but run around in attempts to survive, wasn't standing on a node to cap or defend, and even had to win a 1v1 off node for the most part, to even survive. At the end of the match, I am met with comments from my team mates in the Discord such as: "You might have to start playing something else bro" "It just isn't good against better teams" "We'd rather have you on something that can stay on a node" and you know what? They're right.

    ^ All of this is why I primarily use Druid for side node play, and only use DPS Soulbeast for very specific matches where the stars align, and it can be used as a counter vs. some particular situation. DPS Soulbeast is in no way a stable reliable meta build to run in the way that FBs, Necros, Heralds, Spellbreakers, Holos, Scrappers are. DPS Soulbeast is a niche thing now, that works great in some situations but is bad in others, just like Thieves, Mesmers and Eles.

    In all seriousness, this is what we're looking at in terms of a DPS Soulbeast's counters and countering. So a > means counter, >> means hard counter, = is balanced. This is considering that the DPS Soulbeast is facing people who play at around a Plat 2 level, who actually understand how to play their class:

    • DPS Soulbeast = DPS Soulbeast
    • DPS Soulbeast < More sustainy Ranger builds
    • DPS Soulbeast >> Firebrand
    • DPS Soulbeast > Core Guard
    • DPS Soulbeast = Spellbreaker
    • DPS Soulbeast << Herald
    • DPS Soulbeast = Holosmith
    • DPS Soulbeast = Scrapper, but DPS Soulbeast can >> Bad Scrappers
    • DPS Soulbeast >> Thieves
    • DPS Soulbeast << Condi Mirage or Condi Chrono
    • DPS Soulbeast = Other Mesmer specs
    • DPS Soulbeast >> All Necromancers
    • DPS Soulbeast = Eles

    We're talking it has 3 things that it counters hard, Firebrands & Necros & Thieves. Then it wins against Core Guards, wouldn't exactly say it counters them really. Then it has balanced matches against 6 things, which includes DPS Soulbeast vs. DPS Soulbeast. But it has 3 things that counter it hard, Condi Mirages & Chronos & Heralds. Then it also is countered by more sustainy Ranger specs. So you see it's exactly what I've been saying, it's just something to swap to for a counter vs. teams that are trying to stack FB/Necro/Necro type situations, who do not have Heralds or Condi Mirages & Chronos present. If a decent team with decent players has even a single Herald or Condi Mirage/Chrono present, they can completely neutralize the play of the DPS Soulbeast. And even in those matches where the DPS Soulbeast is getting to counter things hard, he still has to do it mostly always off node, which we all know isn't exactly preferable in Conquest.

    I'm guessing that most people who are complaining about Sic Em Soulbeasts, are people who run Firebrands, Necros, and Thieves. If they are playing anything else, then they must be tunnel visioning the HoT Bruiser/Bunker meta golden rule "get to the node and stay on the node at all costs no matter what" because let me tell ya, dealing with DPS Soulbeast aint hard. I said it once and I'm going to say it again: The biggest problem with discussing balance in this debacle, is that most players do not see Guild Wars 2 as an LOS game. They had grown so accustomed to the old HoT Bruiser/Bunker meta, where the closest thing to ranged damage was a Mender Druid popping them with LB#4 to decap them, that it formed their points of view as "This is how the game should feel. We go to nodes and stand on nodes and we fight on the nodes until players die." So they had done that for so long, without needing to ever worry about anything with ranged damage, that they continue to try and play that way out of sheer habit. Then when anything shows up that's a ranged character that's actually dangerous, they immediately complain about it, because it throws off the comfort zone of their expectations of how the game should be played. <- That is exactly what is happening.

    If people want to say: "I don't like how the game feels when we have a lot of ranged damage being thrown around" I can't argue with that. But to keep crying about how imbalanced it is, and how overpowered it is, is ridiculous, because it isn't.

    1. Start paying attention to Ranger positioning on your mini map.
    2. Learn to utilize obstacles & terrain for anti-LOS.
    3. Make sure to let your team mates know that they need to be pressuring the DPS Soulbeast and not letting it free-cast.

    ^ It's that simple. It really is a l2p issue. Stop tunnel visioning: "get to the node, stay on the node at all costs." The game is different now with PoF Deadeyes & Soulbeasts.

    But yeah, to answer @sephiroth.4217 directly, I can say that it isn't so easy to nail down what it would or wouldn't need to be competitive in higher tiers. But without much though, I can say that the biggest problem is within the design of the class in general, its weapon skills mainly. Everything the Ranger does is super telegraphed, and thus it becomes easy for veteran players to spot a burst, and they know exactly how to react. A DPS Soulbeast using Sic Em as example, has to land all its obvious high damage stuff within 10s to be able to land those kills. Unfortunately for the Soulbeast, a veteran player is clearly going to spot Rapid Fire, Maul and WI. This stuff isn't as easy to land as some people seem to believe it is. Then when those skills are on CD, including Sic Em, the Ranger has no sustained damage output, so it has to run and kite to survive and potentially win. Now if we are talking something like a Holosmith, it has pure sustained damage, and a lot of it. It can sit on a node and bust your kitten up and down with large frequent AoE attacks that ultimately cannot all be avoided. There is so much high damage AoE spam that comes off that class, nothing has enough blocks/dodges/evades/invulns to avoid it all. Eventually if you are on the node with the Holo, you're gonna get hit and hit hard. This is not true with Ranger. A Ranger has a handful of dangerous attacks, then everything else is just sort of meh damage, most of it single strikes not even AoE. This means that it is actually possible for some classes/builds to completely avoid all of the Ranger's threatening attacks, and just face tank the unthreatening ones. <- So this right here is really where the difference is made in opinion on this debacle about DPS Soulbeasts. Intermediate or casual or maybe just mid range players, aren't able to intuitively dodge and avoid the Ranger's threatening attacks, so the class feels OP as hell and it rages them. However, experienced players CAN dodge all of it, and render the DPS Soulbeast completely useless. And that is why things like Holosmiths and Spellbreakers and Heralds, are better in high tier play. You cannot ultimately avoid the damage from those classes. They will hit you and deal threatening damage eventually. So yeah, the problem with Ranger isn't sustain or stability or mobility, it's the telegraphs and how ALL of its threatening damage is packed into Rapid Fire, Maul, Worldly Impact. The Ranger doesn't need nerfing, it needs damage distribution in other places than just those 3 skills. That's exactly what it needs.

    This one gets it.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 9, 2019

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Vithzerai.3291 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:
    I am completely serious about the post.
    My ranger feels super weak without "Sic 'Em!".
    And when this skill has so big CD ranger profession is barely playable outside of PVE.

    It doesn't follow that Sic em needs a buff. If anything ... if Sic Em is so critical to making your performance ... indicates a nerf is necessary.

    As long as they compensate said nerf in other areas, which anet are none too fond of doing.

    We all know that's not how things work.

    Hmm, please enlighten us - how the things work?

    I know they don't work like the poster suggested and there are lots of example of it. I also know you aren't going to make a compelling argument to buff to a skill that you claim makes you perform so highly. I guess maybe you are just unaware of the history of this game. I advise you start paying attention.

    Ask Guardians how that worked out for them on Righteous Instincts.

    So speculations, and you don't know how the things work. There are lots of examples that the things work like the poster suggests.
    I didn't claim that I perform highly with sic 'em, you gotta read more carefully. I said without sic 'em the damage is super weak and if you can read my OP you will understand that only sic 'em kinda normalize the damage of the soulbeast (I have used the word MEDIOCRE which means: of only average quality; not very good), which other professions can squeeze almost permanently without such cooldown of 35 sec.

    "I advise you start paying attention. " - no words...

    So Anet nerfing things without compensation is speculation? Good Story Bro.

    Soulbeast is super weak damage without Sic Em? So ... what I said is true. #fistpump

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • bOTEB.1573bOTEB.1573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 9, 2019

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Vithzerai.3291 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:
    I am completely serious about the post.
    My ranger feels super weak without "Sic 'Em!".
    And when this skill has so big CD ranger profession is barely playable outside of PVE.

    It doesn't follow that Sic em needs a buff. If anything ... if Sic Em is so critical to making your performance ... indicates a nerf is necessary.

    As long as they compensate said nerf in other areas, which anet are none too fond of doing.

    We all know that's not how things work.

    Hmm, please enlighten us - how the things work?

    I know they don't work like the poster suggested and there are lots of example of it. I also know you aren't going to make a compelling argument to buff to a skill that you claim makes you perform so highly. I guess maybe you are just unaware of the history of this game. I advise you start paying attention.

    Ask Guardians how that worked out for them on Righteous Instincts.

    So speculations, and you don't know how the things work. There are lots of examples that the things work like the poster suggests.
    I didn't claim that I perform highly with sic 'em, you gotta read more carefully. I said without sic 'em the damage is super weak and if you can read my OP you will understand that only sic 'em kinda normalize the damage of the soulbeast (I have used the word MEDIOCRE which means: of only average quality; not very good), which other professions can squeeze almost permanently without such cooldown of 35 sec.

    "I advise you start paying attention. " - no words...

    So Anet nerfing things without compensation is speculation? Good Story Bro.

    Soulbeast is super weak damage without Sic Em? So ... what I said is true. #fistpump

    Seriously?

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Vithzerai.3291 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:
    I am completely serious about the post.
    My ranger feels super weak without "Sic 'Em!".
    And when this skill has so big CD ranger profession is barely playable outside of PVE.

    It doesn't follow that Sic em needs a buff. If anything ... if Sic Em is so critical to making your performance ... indicates a nerf is necessary.

    As long as they compensate said nerf in other areas, which anet are none too fond of doing.

    We all know that's not how things work.

    Wishlist:
    Everything that kills me should be nerfed
    Remove all time gates - I play more than some people yet I receive the same rewards per day/week (PvP/WvW tickets etc)
    ANET developments/events and everything else should be in a schedule with the time I play

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 9, 2019

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Vithzerai.3291 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:
    I am completely serious about the post.
    My ranger feels super weak without "Sic 'Em!".
    And when this skill has so big CD ranger profession is barely playable outside of PVE.

    It doesn't follow that Sic em needs a buff. If anything ... if Sic Em is so critical to making your performance ... indicates a nerf is necessary.

    As long as they compensate said nerf in other areas, which anet are none too fond of doing.

    We all know that's not how things work.

    Hmm, please enlighten us - how the things work?

    I know they don't work like the poster suggested and there are lots of example of it. I also know you aren't going to make a compelling argument to buff to a skill that you claim makes you perform so highly. I guess maybe you are just unaware of the history of this game. I advise you start paying attention.

    Ask Guardians how that worked out for them on Righteous Instincts.

    So speculations, and you don't know how the things work. There are lots of examples that the things work like the poster suggests.
    I didn't claim that I perform highly with sic 'em, you gotta read more carefully. I said without sic 'em the damage is super weak and if you can read my OP you will understand that only sic 'em kinda normalize the damage of the soulbeast (I have used the word MEDIOCRE which means: of only average quality; not very good), which other professions can squeeze almost permanently without such cooldown of 35 sec.

    "I advise you start paying attention. " - no words...

    So Anet nerfing things without compensation is speculation? Good Story Bro.

    Soulbeast is super weak damage without Sic Em? So ... what I said is true. #fistpump

    Seriously?

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Vithzerai.3291 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:
    I am completely serious about the post.
    My ranger feels super weak without "Sic 'Em!".
    And when this skill has so big CD ranger profession is barely playable outside of PVE.

    It doesn't follow that Sic em needs a buff. If anything ... if Sic Em is so critical to making your performance ... indicates a nerf is necessary.

    As long as they compensate said nerf in other areas, which anet are none too fond of doing.

    We all know that's not how things work.

    Seems to me you jumped into a reply I had to someone else. We have examples of Anet compensating and not ... it depends on the situation. It's not a given rule though either way.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • bOTEB.1573bOTEB.1573 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Vithzerai.3291 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:
    I am completely serious about the post.
    My ranger feels super weak without "Sic 'Em!".
    And when this skill has so big CD ranger profession is barely playable outside of PVE.

    It doesn't follow that Sic em needs a buff. If anything ... if Sic Em is so critical to making your performance ... indicates a nerf is necessary.

    As long as they compensate said nerf in other areas, which anet are none too fond of doing.

    We all know that's not how things work.

    Hmm, please enlighten us - how the things work?

    I know they don't work like the poster suggested and there are lots of example of it. I also know you aren't going to make a compelling argument to buff to a skill that you claim makes you perform so highly. I guess maybe you are just unaware of the history of this game. I advise you start paying attention.

    Ask Guardians how that worked out for them on Righteous Instincts.

    So speculations, and you don't know how the things work. There are lots of examples that the things work like the poster suggests.
    I didn't claim that I perform highly with sic 'em, you gotta read more carefully. I said without sic 'em the damage is super weak and if you can read my OP you will understand that only sic 'em kinda normalize the damage of the soulbeast (I have used the word MEDIOCRE which means: of only average quality; not very good), which other professions can squeeze almost permanently without such cooldown of 35 sec.

    "I advise you start paying attention. " - no words...

    So Anet nerfing things without compensation is speculation? Good Story Bro.

    Soulbeast is super weak damage without Sic Em? So ... what I said is true. #fistpump

    Seriously?

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Vithzerai.3291 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:
    I am completely serious about the post.
    My ranger feels super weak without "Sic 'Em!".
    And when this skill has so big CD ranger profession is barely playable outside of PVE.

    It doesn't follow that Sic em needs a buff. If anything ... if Sic Em is so critical to making your performance ... indicates a nerf is necessary.

    As long as they compensate said nerf in other areas, which anet are none too fond of doing.

    We all know that's not how things work.

    Seems to me you jumped into a reply I had to someone else. We have examples of Anet compensating and not ... it depends on the situation. It's not a given rule though either way.

    Okay :)

    Wishlist:
    Everything that kills me should be nerfed
    Remove all time gates - I play more than some people yet I receive the same rewards per day/week (PvP/WvW tickets etc)
    ANET developments/events and everything else should be in a schedule with the time I play

  • Lady Celtaine.3760Lady Celtaine.3760 Member ✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    It's pretty simple 40% strait damage modifier is to high. It should be dropped to 15 or 20% to be in line with other professions. 40% is fine on the pet though which is what it was intended for when It was created.

    This. It is extremely high for a dmg boost and I say that as a ranger player, personally I'd happily accept half the buff in exchange for reducing the cool down by 5 seconds. The game doesn't need anymore dead skills and traits, it needs balanced ones. Admittedly I haven't played pvp in a long time now but if I were to go back to pvp if the skill was changed like this for this game mode in particular I'd consider it a decent enough compromise.

  • bOTEB.1573bOTEB.1573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 9, 2019

    @Lady Celtaine.3760 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    It's pretty simple 40% strait damage modifier is to high. It should be dropped to 15 or 20% to be in line with other professions. 40% is fine on the pet though which is what it was intended for when It was created.

    This. It is extremely high for a dmg boost and I say that as a ranger player, personally I'd happily accept half the buff in exchange for reducing the cool down by 5 seconds. The game doesn't need anymore dead skills and traits, it needs balanced ones. Admittedly I haven't played pvp in a long time now but if I were to go back to pvp if the skill was changed like this for this game mode in particular I'd consider it a decent enough compromise.

    Sorry, but do you think Sic 'Em SLB are overperforming in PvP? They are not, literally not viable at all. With one word, they are trash at higher tiers. If SLB has lower anything, it will be even more trash. What is the logical reason behind reducing the damage? For example, if Build A is doing 30k dmg with the help of a skill that modifies the dmg with 15-20% and Build B (the SLB with Sic 'Em) is doing the same damage but with the help of 40% modifier, should we nerf the 40% modifier to 15-20%? Please note, also, that Build A has way more utilities, blocks, invulnerabilities and stuns/interrupts while also have less telegraphed abilities.

    Wishlist:
    Everything that kills me should be nerfed
    Remove all time gates - I play more than some people yet I receive the same rewards per day/week (PvP/WvW tickets etc)
    ANET developments/events and everything else should be in a schedule with the time I play

  • Twilight Tempest.7584Twilight Tempest.7584 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 9, 2019

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @Lady Celtaine.3760 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    It's pretty simple 40% strait damage modifier is to high. It should be dropped to 15 or 20% to be in line with other professions. 40% is fine on the pet though which is what it was intended for when It was created.

    This. It is extremely high for a dmg boost and I say that as a ranger player, personally I'd happily accept half the buff in exchange for reducing the cool down by 5 seconds. The game doesn't need anymore dead skills and traits, it needs balanced ones. Admittedly I haven't played pvp in a long time now but if I were to go back to pvp if the skill was changed like this for this game mode in particular I'd consider it a decent enough compromise.

    Sorry, but do you think Sic 'Em SLB are overperforming in PvP? They are not, literally not viable at all. With one word, they are trash at higher tiers. If SLB has lower anything, it will be even more trash. What is the logical reason behind reducing the damage? For example, if Build A is doing 30k dmg with the help of a skill that modifies the dmg with 15-20% and Build B (the SLB with Sic 'Em) is doing the same damage but with the help of 40% modifier, should we nerf the 40% modifier to 15-20%? Please note, also, that Build A has way more utilities, blocks, invulnerabilities and stuns/interrupts while also have less telegraphed abilities.

    Both Build A and Build B are powercrept and both need toning down.

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