Swipe change — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Swipe change

Jack Redline.5379Jack Redline.5379 Member ✭✭✭✭

We all agree Swipe needs change but we havent agreed upon the type of change. so here are four aspects we could ask Anet to change. Maybe if they see we are united in our oppinion they will consider changing it.

Swipe change 14 votes

Change distance to 900 add stun 2 sec but you will not get any stolen skill
35%
CavaleiroV.1904Karma Crimzin.5079Edge.8724Kolly.9872Fulgar.8543 5 votes
Have it deal dmg 500 and apply imob and tornment for 5 sec but get revealed after you steal to target
7%
all cheats.3186 1 vote
Have it pull your opponent to you insead of porting to them
21%
Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497InsaneQR.7412Oldgrimm.8521 3 votes
Gain 15 stacks of might superspeed and fury for 5 sec
21%
Raiden The Beast.3016Xenji.4907StayM.9162 3 votes
Get a charge for each steal up to 3 stacks when you charge all 3 you get access to F1 skill that will will be able to refresh Cd on all ur skills and grant you full ini you cant use it w/o three charges and you loose stolenskill
14%
Lonewolf Kai.3682Jack Redline.5379 2 votes

Comments

  • Kravey.4563Kravey.4563 Member ✭✭

    None of them

  • Creaitov.6328Creaitov.6328 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 14, 2019

    @foste.3098 said:
    None of the above, swipe is meant to be a trade-off and as such serve a different purpose to steal. It is suppose to be a close range unpreventable steal that, in conjunction with traits, allows the daredevil to break through the enemies defense (blocking) setting up the daredevil for continued offense where without it he would have had to stop.

    What actually needs to change are the daredevil traits, and especially staff to enable this play style in spvp/wvw. Anet clearly wants the daredevil to be a bruiser or a duelist judging by the heap of damage reduction traits we got, however it was not enough. I am confident that we will get more buffs until daredevil becomes good enough in this regard, but overbufing swipe is not the way to do it.

    Problem is, breaking through enemy defenses means nothing if there is nothing to back it up. In other words, if they really wanted swipe to be a way to disrupt blocks then it should have a daze built-in to interrupt them, yet you're forced to go trickery for it making the whole unblockable thing pretty much useless since trickery also offers boon rip to remove aegis.

    Also what are those suggestions man lol the only one close to being reasonable is the first one, in the sense that if they're reworking steal to be a combat oriented skill then so be it, take away our stolen stuff and give us a real combat skill that helps close gaps and disrupt the enemy.

  • foste.3098foste.3098 Member ✭✭✭

    @Creaitov.6328 said:
    Problem is, breaking through enemy defenses means nothing if there is nothing to back it up.

    Agreed, perhaps the best way to make swipe a defense break is to have it cancel and remove any block effect (but not trigger interrupt effects) if it is used against a target that would have blocked it.
    For example if you swipe on to a warrior during his shield stance skill the block channel ends and the skill goes on a full cooldown (as if the warrior canceled the channel), or if used against ages then it just removes the ages. This way traiting in to trickery would still benefit you as you would daze on top, which would proc interrupts, but not be mandatory as swipe would by would stop blocks.

    Or they could simply make daredevil traits and skills more powerful and leave swipe as is, making it a legit trade off; pick daredevil and get a melee oriented duelist specialization for thief that can carry itself in a 1 vs 1 scenario without having to constantly run & reset or duck in to stealth for extended periods of time at the cost of a objectively worse steal ability.

  • Kageseigi.2150Kageseigi.2150 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 15, 2019

    Being a simple unblockable Steal at half range was a terrible idea. I agree that if it's going to be unblockable, it needs an interrupt built in.

    I'd suggest to not even make it "steal" anything at all. Instead, give it real purpose that can help the Daredevil survive... focused more on degrading the opponent than enhancing the Thief. Just have Swipe remove ALL boons from the opponent if it lands. Not steal or rip or anything... just remove them. All of them. Take away the unblockable ability to balance it out. That way, Basilisk Venom, Sleight of Hand, and Bountiful Theft still have meaning.

  • Exitus.3297Exitus.3297 Member ✭✭
    edited May 15, 2019

    Sorry, but none of the above.

    I don't get why ANet felt the need to change the class skill to begin with. Not every elite spec needs it's class skill changed. Mirages get a new dodge mechanic, and Daredevils were meant to be similar. Heck, Scrappers got a ranged finisher/revive skill and their class skills were completely untouched.

    The best thing ANet could do in the short-term is just revert it back to normal, at least until they can come up with a tradeoff that actually makes sense.

    EDIT: Grammar, as per usual...

  • Curennos.9307Curennos.9307 Member ✭✭✭

    Okay, a trade off. That's fair.

    Question is, what have [we] gotten out of it? Expected reply of 'unblockable!' but I'd repeat....what have we gotten out of it?

    The unblockable part has done zilch for me thus far.

  • Warkind.6745Warkind.6745 Member ✭✭✭

    I agree it needs something more to justify such a small range, but most of these modifications would be overpowered since they're essentially free traits from DA or Trickery.

    All is vain.

  • foste.3098foste.3098 Member ✭✭✭

    @Curennos.9307 said:
    Okay, a trade off. That's fair.

    Question is, what have [we] gotten out of it? Expected reply of 'unblockable!' but I'd repeat....what have we gotten out of it?

    The trade off is a 3rd dodge which is modified to ether be a leap finisher and deal damage with bound, a soft cc cleanse and mobility maneuver that reduces damage with dash, or whatever impaling lotus is suppose to be. That is the daredevil elite mechanic for which we give up steal for the objectively worse swipe.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭

    @foste.3098 said:

    @Curennos.9307 said:
    Okay, a trade off. That's fair.

    Question is, what have [we] gotten out of it? Expected reply of 'unblockable!' but I'd repeat....what have we gotten out of it?

    The trade off is a 3rd dodge which is modified to ether be a leap finisher and deal damage with bound, a soft cc cleanse and mobility maneuver that reduces damage with dash, or whatever impaling lotus is suppose to be. That is the daredevil elite mechanic for which we give up steal for the objectively worse swipe.

    Which we ultimately gave up out of acrobatics making that traitline worse to create DD. Core got a traitline nerf so DD could exist, that's more than enough of a trade off.

  • foste.3098foste.3098 Member ✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Which we ultimately gave up out of acrobatics making that traitline worse to create DD. Core got a traitline nerf so DD could exist, that's more than enough of a trade off.

    That is a bad line of logic to go by in regards to balance. Yes acrobatics got changed for daredevil to exist, but guess what so did water magic to make space for tempest and its auras, nature magic for rangers got repeatedly changed 1st because it was too synergistic in conjunction with druid and later to enable druid to be a better raid buffer, ect.
    Also by that logic no elite spec should have any trade offs because you are spending a trait line slot for it instead for another line, which should be more than enough of a trade off right?

    Besides acrobatics at this time is fine trait line, it serves a different function to what it was 6 years ago but you cannot call it bad by any measure.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 15, 2019

    DD previous steal as well as this swipe joke is about as lazy as nerfing a core traitline (acro) to make the new espec itself relevant. F skill coulda transformed the DD staff into a guandau with it's own set of brawler king fu esq skills that has a set duration or somthing. Instead of stealing from a core trait line to create a new espec and ontop just use the same f skill as core,until now which is just a worse version. I'm glad u think my way of thinking regarding balancing is wrong foste cuz if u think nerfing and stealing a trait from a core trait to make a new one is a good way of doing things than I'd rather u not agree lol

  • Ensign.2189Ensign.2189 Member ✭✭

    Uh, no, Feline Grace wasn't nerfed to make room for Daredevil, it was nerfed because it was an absurdly powerful trait that carried an otherwise underwhelming trait line on its own.

    An extreme rework of steal is never going to be in the cards. Far too many traits are linked to steal being an aggressive ability that targets a foe. If you remove that the spec becomes pretty worthless immediately.

  • Kageseigi.2150Kageseigi.2150 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ensign.2189 said:
    Uh, no, Feline Grace wasn't nerfed to make room for Daredevil, it was nerfed because it was an absurdly powerful trait that carried an otherwise underwhelming trait line on its own.

    It's quite convenient that Feline Grace's third dodge was literally nerfed exactly when Daredevil was added which naturally gave three dodges, eh?

    Yep, it was so absurdly powerful that Anet removed it from the game... only to add it back instantly... behind a paywall.

    So an underwhelming traitline became even more underwhelming.

  • Curennos.9307Curennos.9307 Member ✭✭✭

    I'd be happy if Swipe was upped to 900 range tbh. Unblockable isn't powerful all on its own - it requires that the thing being unblockable have some OOMPH to it - unblockable Death's Judgement was something to be feared. Maybe

    Or if it came with 2k damage (that could be stacked with mug, but otherwise applied a pulm impact if it hit) or something. Heck, make landing Swipe deal 2k damage and give 2k barrier, if anet really wants to go with this whole brawler + weakness spam thing.

  • Kageseigi.2150Kageseigi.2150 Member ✭✭✭

    @Curennos.9307 said:
    I'd be happy if Swipe was upped to 900 range tbh. Unblockable isn't powerful all on its own - it requires that the thing being unblockable have some OOMPH to it - unblockable Death's Judgement was something to be feared. Maybe

    Or if it came with 2k damage (that could be stacked with mug, but otherwise applied a pulm impact if it hit) or something. Heck, make landing Swipe deal 2k damage and give 2k barrier, if anet really wants to go with this whole brawler + weakness spam thing.

    If it is going to add unblockability, then it needs to also make the next strike unblockable... or make everything unbloackable for the next 4 seconds like Unstoppable Union. Or grant Haste on Swipe, and make attacks for the next the next 2 seconds unblockable.

    I really do like the idea of a pulsing Weakness AoE, though. Maybe even a stronger version of Weakness that guarantees denial of all crits.

    My goodness, there are just so many great possibilities! Why can Anet not see them???

    PS. I really, really want to be nice to Anet. As a whole, they are great, and GW2 is an amazing game! But whoever is balancing professions and making design decisions... they are seriously dropping the ball.

  • Curennos.9307Curennos.9307 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kageseigi.2150 said:

    @Curennos.9307 said:
    I'd be happy if Swipe was upped to 900 range tbh. Unblockable isn't powerful all on its own - it requires that the thing being unblockable have some OOMPH to it - unblockable Death's Judgement was something to be feared. Maybe

    Or if it came with 2k damage (that could be stacked with mug, but otherwise applied a pulm impact if it hit) or something. Heck, make landing Swipe deal 2k damage and give 2k barrier, if anet really wants to go with this whole brawler + weakness spam thing.

    If it is going to add unblockability, then it needs to also make the next strike unblockable... or make everything unbloackable for the next 4 seconds like Unstoppable Union. Or grant Haste on Swipe, and make attacks for the next the next 2 seconds unblockable.

    I really do like the idea of a pulsing Weakness AoE, though. Maybe even a stronger version of Weakness that guarantees denial of all crits.

    My goodness, there are just so many great possibilities! Why can Anet not see them???

    PS. I really, really want to be nice to Anet. As a whole, they are great, and GW2 is an amazing game! But whoever is balancing professions and making design decisions... they are seriously dropping the ball.

    Nice ones! Reminds me, Weakness - the condition - needs changes. It's super strong, but also super RNG. 50% chance to reduce attacks by 50% or...whatever. I think everyone would be much happier if it was just a flat reduction, for reliability reasons (it's painful to apply weakness, but have the 50% chance miss and get smashed by whatever my opponent has going).

  • Ensign.2189Ensign.2189 Member ✭✭

    @Kageseigi.2150 said:
    Yep, it was so absurdly powerful that Anet removed it from the game... only to add it back instantly... behind a paywall.

    Daredevil's 3rd dodge is nowhere near as powerful as Feline Grace. Don't insult everyone by pretending you are too stupid to understand that.

  • Kageseigi.2150Kageseigi.2150 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ensign.2189 said:

    @Kageseigi.2150 said:
    Yep, it was so absurdly powerful that Anet removed it from the game... only to add it back instantly... behind a paywall.

    Daredevil's 3rd dodge is nowhere near as powerful as Feline Grace. Don't insult everyone by pretending you are too stupid to understand that.

    Alas, the interwebs and their trolls. Can the insulted party please explain how Pre-HoT Feline Grace was, in itself, more powerful than the Daredevil's third dodge?

  • Ensign.2189Ensign.2189 Member ✭✭

    @Kageseigi.2150 said:
    Alas, the interwebs and their trolls. Can the insulted party please explain how Pre-HoT Feline Grace was, in itself, more powerful than the Daredevil's third dodge?

    Sure. Old Feline Grace was a power multiplier on every source of endurance gain. It did not just provide in effect a 3rd extra dodge off the bat, but increased base endurance regen, increased vigor potency, increased endurance gain from skills, and if allowed with Daredevil would have multiplied every endurance restoring trait it offered as well.

  • Kageseigi.2150Kageseigi.2150 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 16, 2019

    @Ensign.2189 said:

    @Kageseigi.2150 said:
    Alas, the interwebs and their trolls. Can the insulted party please explain how Pre-HoT Feline Grace was, in itself, more powerful than the Daredevil's third dodge?

    Sure. Old Feline Grace was a power multiplier on every source of endurance gain. It did not just provide in effect a 3rd extra dodge off the bat, but increased base endurance regen, increased vigor potency, increased endurance gain from skills, and if allowed with Daredevil would have multiplied every endurance restoring trait it offered as well.

    Yes, old Feline Grace had synergy with other traits/effects. It was not more powerful than Daredevil's third dodge in itself. It's like Steal... it had to rely on other traits to make it so powerful. If Daredevil had all of the other old traits/effects excluding Feline Grace, it would be even more potent.

    Could Daredevil combined with old Feline Grace combined be completely overpowered? With all of the old traits/regen/etc., yes, completely. Daredevil wouldn't even need the old Feline Grace to become overpowered. But yes, without the changes, Daredevil and old Feline Grace couldn't exist in a balanced game (not that the game is balanced anyway).

    However, Feline Grace itself wan't more powerful than Daredevil's third dodge... especially with all of Daredevil's built-in endurance regen.

    Once again, though, old Feline Grace (along with old Vigor) had to be removed from the game JUST so Daredevil as we know it could exist without being completely overpowered. And in doing so, it broke Acrobatics Core Thieves. I remember Sword Thieves being furious and disheartened by the change.

    They could have just changed Vigor. They could have given Daredevil some unique function while keeping two dodges. They could have done several things without changing Feline Grace itself (or at least removing ALL of the endurance regen), and thus avoid kneecapping Core Acro Thieves. But they chose to wreck the line instead, allowing Daredevil to have the third dodge and endurance regen.

  • Dave.6819Dave.6819 Member ✭✭

    Terrible choices. None of the above. Make it 1200range like it was and also buff it so mug can crit like it used to. No need for new changes. Just un-nerf it and it'll be fine.

    #MakeTeefGreatAgain

  • Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 16, 2019
    Have it pull your opponent to you insead of porting to them

    @foste.3098 said:
    None of the above, swipe is meant to be a trade-off and as such serve a different purpose to steal. It is suppose to be a close range unpreventable steal that, in conjunction with traits, allows the daredevil to break through the enemies defense (blocking) setting up the daredevil for continued offense where without it he would have had to stop.

    What actually needs to change are the daredevil traits, and especially staff to enable this play style in spvp/wvw. Anet clearly wants the daredevil to be a bruiser or a duelist judging by the heap of damage reduction traits we got, however it was not enough. I am confident that we will get more buffs until daredevil becomes good enough in this regard, but overbufing swipe is not the way to do it.

    Whats the point of an unblockable steal when the skill is instant. If you steal into a block its your own fault.

    And the cases where a block isn't aegis, they are so friggin rare.

    But to me,.none of the options are all that good in this poll

    Hell, they could keep the 600 range change if thief is given a reason to stay so close to everything that can kill them so quickly.

    Maybe a counter attack. Maybe a round house kick that restores ini if successfully landed.

  • Sir Vincent III.1286Sir Vincent III.1286 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The only compromise I will vote on is change the range to 900 and make the NEXT attack unblockable instead -- that's it.

    Thief F1 must remain an instacast Steal skill. DE will simply apply DE Mark on target on Steal.
    Malice build-up independently from DE Mark. Mark only speed up the build-up, not be the pre-requisite.
    http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning...there was Tarnished Coast...

  • Cobrakon.3108Cobrakon.3108 Member ✭✭✭

    They Dont know how to fix thief without breaking it in the other direction. Or at the very least, they fear breaking it in the other direction.

  • Kolly.9872Kolly.9872 Member ✭✭
    Change distance to 900 add stun 2 sec but you will not get any stolen skill

    @Cobrakon.3108 said:
    They Dont know how to fix thief without breaking it in the other direction. Or at the very least, they fear breaking it in the other direction.

    In the while they know how to break everything else in the other direction.
    Thief was only broken at the release, after that It was only nerfed due to complains of people that refuse to improve because crying on the forum is easier.
    And finally we are nowadays and if you ask me, even of Anet would revert thief nerfs to vanilla thief, the class would still underperform vs many specs.

  • Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 18, 2019
    Have it pull your opponent to you insead of porting to them

    @Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

    @foste.3098 said:
    None of the above, swipe is meant to be a trade-off and as such serve a different purpose to steal. It is suppose to be a close range unpreventable steal that, in conjunction with traits, allows the daredevil to break through the enemies defense (blocking) setting up the daredevil for continued offense where without it he would have had to stop.

    What actually needs to change are the daredevil traits, and especially staff to enable this play style in spvp/wvw. Anet clearly wants the daredevil to be a bruiser or a duelist judging by the heap of damage reduction traits we got, however it was not enough. I am confident that we will get more buffs until daredevil becomes good enough in this regard, but overbufing swipe is not the way to do it.

    Whats the point of an unblockable steal when the skill is instant. If you steal into a block its your own fault.

    And the cases where a block isn't aegis, they are so friggin rare.

    But to me,.none of the options are all that good in this poll

    Hell, they could keep the 600 range change if thief is given a reason to stay so close to everything that can kill them so quickly.

    Maybe a counter attack. Maybe a round house kick that restores ini if successfully landed.

    Now that I think about it... why stop with the round house kick? They could have made it a friggen hurricane kick that goes to 600 in range granting might on each hit. And if the Last hit lands, toggle the ability Into a crescent kick that knocks down and shatters their defenses (applys vulnerability or a unique debuff.) There were so many things they could have done to give DD a unique playstyle, and they did this.

    @Kolly.9872 said:

    @Cobrakon.3108 said:
    They Dont know how to fix thief without breaking it in the other direction. Or at the very least, they fear breaking it in the other direction.

    In the while they know how to break everything else in the other direction.
    Thief was only broken at the release, after that It was only nerfed due to complains of people that refuse to improve because crying on the forum is easier.
    And finally we are nowadays and if you ask me, even of Anet would revert thief nerfs to vanilla thief, the class would still underperform vs many specs.

    Like how ele has necromancer levels of self healing, while being able to do insane damage.
    Or Mirage is still allowed to do bonkers damage with a brain dead rotation.
    Or how Guardian has broken traps.
    Or how Revenant is basically a better thief with actual armor and damage.
    Or how Engineer can be nearly indestructible.

    How it feels to read patch notes as a thief...

  • @Kageseigi.2150 said:

    @Curennos.9307 said:
    I'd be happy if Swipe was upped to 900 range tbh. Unblockable isn't powerful all on its own - it requires that the thing being unblockable have some OOMPH to it - unblockable Death's Judgement was something to be feared. Maybe

    Or if it came with 2k damage (that could be stacked with mug, but otherwise applied a pulm impact if it hit) or something. Heck, make landing Swipe deal 2k damage and give 2k barrier, if anet really wants to go with this whole brawler + weakness spam thing.

    If it is going to add unblockability, then it needs to also make the next strike unblockable... or make everything unbloackable for the next 4 seconds like Unstoppable Union. Or grant Haste on Swipe, and make attacks for the next the next 2 seconds unblockable.

    I really do like the idea of a pulsing Weakness AoE, though. Maybe even a stronger version of Weakness that guarantees denial of all crits.

    My goodness, there are just so many great possibilities! Why can Anet not see them???

    PS. I really, really want to be nice to Anet. As a whole, they are great, and GW2 is an amazing game! But whoever is balancing professions and making design decisions... they are seriously dropping the ball.

    I like the idea of adding a short buff to make attacks unblockable after steal. It could be similar to Revenants' Phase Traversal. Adding weakness can always be fitting for synergy with the new Weakening Strikes minor trait. I don't know that Swipe would need both of these simultaneously.

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