Challenge: Win without Spin

I believe if you take out dazzlestorm from the thief kit today, many will get a dose of the reality of just how weak the class is and how hard that one button press can carry the thief.

NO?

Go play 10 games in ranked without that skill; use BASI.

Put your rank on the line, if you even dare to play thief. If you have the same success then...then...then I guess I am potato.

Personally, I haven't seen more than 1/100 thief using anything other than this skill.

How STRONK would mEtA teef be without this skill?

Don't forget to record and upload it to youtube.

That said, though, anyone know some lightweight recording software? I may actually give this a go - lightweight because I have a laptop and, while it's pretty new, I'm not sure what it can handle.

Tbh I see dagger storm more of like an "oh shi-" button rather than a combat skill. Basi with its short CD and powerful effect accomplishes more in a real fight I think.

Now don't get me wrong, dagger storm is really good but its mostly because of the long pseudo-invuln. Problem is a lot of the time a smart player will just wait it out and save their cds while you spin around like a beyblade lol, and in my opinion thief already has ways to counter enemy big cds anyways via stealth and kiting so unless you're fighting outnumbered I feel its unnecesary. In practice, I switch between them all the time depending on what kind of fights I'm expecting.

... I play purely WvW though so maybe my experience is different from the sPvP crowd.

@Curennos.9307 said:Don't forget to record and upload it to youtube.

That said, though, anyone know some lightweight recording software? I may actually give this a go - lightweight because I have a laptop and, while it's pretty new, I'm not sure what it can handle.

OBS is pretty good for that. Lightweight and easy to use. Make sure you have enough hard drive space before recording because depending on the quality the video files can use a lot of space :scream: .

@"Creaitov.6328" said:Tbh I see dagger storm more of like an "oh shi-" button rather than a combat skill. Basi with its short CD and powerful effect accomplishes more in a real fight I think.

Now don't get me wrong, dagger storm is really good but its mostly because of the long pseudo-invuln. Problem is a lot of the time a smart player will just wait it out and save their cds while you spin around like a beyblade lol, and in my opinion thief already has ways to counter enemy big cds anyways via stealth and kiting so unless you're fighting outnumbered I feel its unnecesary. In practice, I switch between them all the time depending on what kind of fights I'm expecting.

... I play purely WvW though so maybe my experience is different from the sPvP crowd.

@Curennos.9307 said:Don't forget to record and upload it to youtube.

That said, though, anyone know some lightweight recording software? I may actually give this a go - lightweight because I have a laptop and, while it's pretty new, I'm not sure what it can handle.

Oh yeah, DS is extremely strong specifically in sPvP - the near-exclusive focus on very small circles you need to capture and hold does...quite a lot to DS's effectiveness.

And thanks for the recommendation :)

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

I've been using Impact Strike instead for some time now, it is not that bad but you're not wrong none the less as Staff Thief is already quite a joke in it's own so I guess I am just fooling myself since I don't see Impact Strike working with any other weapon set any more.

@Curennos.9307 said:Don't forget to record and upload it to youtube.

That said, though, anyone know some lightweight recording software? I may actually give this a go - lightweight because I have a laptop and, while it's pretty new, I'm not sure what it can handle.

OBS is quite good, it is free and offers lots of options.Nvidia build-in is also very good but requires Nvidia GPU.And the worse choice than the mentioned ones with just one or two features would be free-version of Wondershare Filmora.

@"Creaitov.6328" said:Tbh I see dagger storm more of like an "oh shi-" button rather than a combat skill. Basi with its short CD and powerful effect accomplishes more in a real fight I think.

Now don't get me wrong, dagger storm is really good but its mostly because of the long pseudo-invuln. Problem is a lot of the time a smart player will just wait it out and save their cds while you spin around like a beyblade lol, and in my opinion thief already has ways to counter enemy big cds anyways via stealth and kiting so unless you're fighting outnumbered I feel its unnecesary. In practice, I switch between them all the time depending on what kind of fights I'm expecting.

Actually DS can have it's uses offensively too, especially when you go against players with one-shot builds. DS is your lord savior when fighting stuff like dmg soulbeasts, deadeyes or fresh air ele if you reflect they one shots while porting in their melee range you can mess them up pretty badly. Also any heavy clone mesmer build will be put in defensive mode, and reapers can be messed up too if you get them into a tight space the same way. But yeah, probably the smart players won't be caught in those kind of situations and would know how to play around it to be minimally affected.

I play a fun core shadowy backstabby build with Basi :)

Most Thieves I see don't even know how to use Dagger Storm. You're supposed to get inside someones hitbox and stay there so all your daggers hit and you do tons of AoE damage. Great in team fights and especially when someone is downed so you can stay inside them.

I’d comment that other elites provide comparable benefits depending on the build. Shadow Meld is a good example of this.

That said, Dagger Storm does enough extra damage and is defensive in one of the few semi invuln while attacking moves available to thief. And unlike the others (Death Blossom and Vault for example) the AoE is larger and the semi invuln period is better. This makes it a key part of thief’s ability to stay in a teamfight or hold out for an assist in a XvX situation.

Most thieves play builds that need evade and AoE pressure to be effective. So they choose Dagger Storm.

Buff other thief builds that don’t use Dagger Storm and you will see more thieves taking less conventional builds.

@saerni.2584 said:I’d comment that other elites provide comparable benefits depending on the build. Shadow Meld is a good example of this.

That said, Dagger Storm does enough extra damage and is defensive in one of the few semi invuln while attacking moves available to thief. And unlike the others (Death Blossom and Vault for example) the AoE is larger and the semi invuln period is better. This makes it a key part of thief’s ability to stay in a teamfight or hold out for an assist in a XvX situation.

Most thieves play builds that need evade and AoE pressure to be effective. So they choose Dagger Storm.

Buff other thief builds that don’t use Dagger Storm and you will see more thieves taking less conventional builds.

I'd like to see a buff to other elites, but I got a feeling in my gut they are coming for daggerstorm soon.

I regularly used to use Basilisk Venom on D/P Daredevil even when Dagger Storm got power-creeped. I honestly would prefer Impact Strike because the play-making potential is really good (that and I like punching things), but it whiffs too often.

While I speak to my WvW expeirence , I tried my DE spec using DS over Shadowmeld and after a few hours went right back to Smeld which the superior elite in my build.

My DD build uses Impact strike .

My core builds use DS as They have no access to Impact strike or Shadowmeld , thieves guild Cooldown is jut too long for benefits gained and Basi Venom becomes less useful as specs of other professions get ever more in the way of sustain and passive get out of jail free stuff. Basi is sometimes slotted in when I run with a group and share it around.

Update: Been trying to use impact strike. Almost got the last hit in, but it was blocked on a downed body...somehow? There was a super sweet moment where I actually managed to kill someone with the last hit so they were insta-downed, but nooot having much luck in ranked at the moment. Staff/SB, DD/Trickery/Acro (sometimes Deadly Arts)

The reason it was starting to get used in the first place was to counter Soulbeast as it was a reflect it saw more use after they increased the movement speed and reduced some of the cooldown on it. Otherwise, even if they removed the evade a lot of thieves would still be using it for the reflection and movement speed it provides.

@pureskullz.7536 said:The reason it was starting to get used in the first place was to counter Soulbeast as it was a reflect it saw more use after they increased the movement speed and reduced some of the cooldown on it. Otherwise, even if they removed the evade a lot of thieves would still be using it for the reflection and movement speed it provides.

Are you joking?

@Curennos.9307 said:

@pureskullz.7536 said:The reason it was starting to get used in the first place was to counter Soulbeast as it was a reflect it saw more use after they increased the movement speed and reduced some of the cooldown on it. Otherwise, even if they removed the evade a lot of thieves would still be using it for the reflection and movement speed it provides.

What else would I be doing

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

I mean yes DS is carrying a bit but you can play w/o it. I personally pick Impact Strike instead of DS if the enemy comp has a lot of casters. for me DS is comfortable tbh cuz of the Combo field effect since i run condi so i POOTIS poison field on and go REEEEEEEEEEEEEE on them haters. funny enough sometimes even that isnt enough xD. when you vomit 25 stacks of poison 10 stacks of Bleeds and 3 tornments on Scrapper. (i think it is scrapprr they have hammer) and they be like Meh drips that on 30% health heals to full it kind off puts your life to a perspective xD. Druid the same from time to time. But it is possible to run something elsefrom DS even tho DPS.-wisr it is unwise :)