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post-Episode 5 pending arcs/rumours.[heavy spoilers]


ugrakarma.9416

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Episode 5 seemed pretty focused on wrapping the old Kralkotorrik-Glint-Aurene arc, possibly until then, the oldest unresolved Guild Wars plot. (I'm not sure if Mursaat/White Mantle related can be considered a continuous plot exiting along GW1 and Gw2., or a "interrupted one"). The LS2, Hot, LS3, POF, LS4 can be easily packaged as the "The Glint Legacy Saga and his champion". I do not know LW1, and at what level we could include it in it. Personal history and its focus on Zhaithan is like a kind of prologue "the born of Glint Legacy champion".

The impact of Aurene's death on LW4 and ep5 seemingly distracted players from 2 open-ended issues.

  1. Wheres is Zojja?
  2. The all stuff around "Lyssa is aware of Balthazar misconduct" is really dead as rumour?

What other questions do you think still remain open?

[note:i tagged as "heavy spoilers" to anyone feel free to comment all LWS4 episodes]

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This whole thing starter because Glint wants to stop the cycle of the Elder Dragon while maintaining the balance. That ultimate goal has not been resolved.

Sure the balance is restored (or is it?), but the cycle did not end. Both Primo and Jormag was forced to slumber with empty stomach. Who knows when they will wake up and what will Aurene do about it. Since this episode shows that she can handle multiple kind of magic, will she then kill Primo and Jormag and become the one and only Almighty Dragon? Who knows?

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It's hard to tell, but it almost seemed like they were implying that Aurene could become a general replacement for multiple dragons given her ability to harmonize the different kinds of magic. The general feeling I got from this was that, it seems like they just wanted to not only finish Kralk, but just finish the elder dragon plot in general for quite some time. We have new dialogue that shows us that Elder Dragons or at least Kralk, seemingly aren't chaotic but become chaotic due to the magic they consume. They could essentially all be good or at least neutral to begin with, but then be corrupted themselves just as they spread their corruption to everything else.

So, for all we know, despite the implications that The All requires 6 elder dragons, they've pretty much opened way for this to be countered later on in that Aurene could just absorb more power. Adversely, we could discover that although she has a much higher tolerance and ability to withstand the magic, Kralk saying he hopes she never has to kill what she loves could be an indication that it's not a permanent state of harmony. That eventually, it will start taking a tole, in which we may need to find more elder dragon replacements to take in some of the excess magic she's carrying.

In general though, it seems like that's more of a... well this covers us for however long we need it to, in regards to the elder dragons.

I really do wonder if this was meant to wrap up this franchise in general, even with season 5 being announced earlier during the season. They've done some major reworks to the story it would seem from what I was reading on That Shaman's twitter.

The best bet in my opinion, is something a bit more spread out resolving multiple other plots that haven't had much going on. I think season 5 may very well wind up focusing on a return of the gods. Given how we've killed Balthazar and sucked in at least a part of Melandru, Balthazar, and Grenth's domains, it wouldn't be surprising to find out that the gods want to pay a little visit. We still have the Lyssa plot that hasn't really seen any more attention either.

Especially now with Aurene being the first of her kind and taking in multiple forms of magic, her existence would be of particular interest to the gods who only left to find a new world because they were unaware of the possibility of this happening. It does seem rather strange though, that Glint would so much about the forgotten, who potentially knew more about the gods and what they know, yet the gods would possibly not know about this potential solution to their previous problem.

Anyway, my bet is on the gods returning and having some involvement as the overarching story, but minor sub stories involving unresolved plots like Malyck's tree and what not.

But yes, the possibility of Bubbles taking more action now that we just plopped some of the gods domains into the northern part of the unending ocean could come to pass.

Lastly, it's hard to tell what direction Aurene is flying in when she glides back down from the stars and into the horizon, but it could be the charr homelands which would lead us into season 5 involving that area. It's really impossible to tell. Definitely no glaring hints or teasers about the next season though, and to be honest, I'm kind of torn between wanting something and just enjoying the fact that we don't have this cliffhanger keeping us on edge making us feel like it's the end of the world again. I think ending it this way was a great way to conclude Aurene's growth arc, even if I wish we had a way to visit her in her new elder dragon form somehow like the exalted portal stone or something.

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Had a different idea last night - note, I'm just spitballing here.I'm presuming that this coming episode will be a bridge to the next expansion. I'm also guessing with Primordus and Jormag napping, we're not going to be messing with them. They're not an imminent threat, and killing more dragons, as far as we know, would be Bad*. The deep-sea dragon? Maybe, but again, killing dragons is bad. I'm going to guess that the next episode, and the next expansion, will have little to do with Elder Dragons.Now, there's lots of dangling threads (where the hell are Jory and Kas?), but one I haven't seen addressed yet is Taimi's imminent death.There's one possibility, that Taimi gets herself a shiny golem body. It's certainly been hinted at, I think, but...Instead, we get the hint that maybe Taimi can be healed/fixed, somewhere in the world. That opens up a personal feeling quest, to hunt down these clues, wherever they may lead, to find the process/elixir/machine/whatever to accomplish this. Previously unknown magic in Cantha, the Charr homelands, the Far North - whatever.Cantha opens up a few more possibilities. With Zhaitan gone, the sea lanes should be open. But Cantha, last we heard, was wildly xenophobic and racist - remember, that Emperor kicked out as many nonhumans as he could manage. So we'd have to travel there, encountering multiple folks and lands along the way, and the next expansion would be convincing the Canthan empire to change its ways - perhaps with an overthrow of the Empire with the aid of some of those folks we encountered earlier. And maybe Bubbles will pop up to add a complication to the mix...Or it may be that no new areas are involved, and the whole "fix Taimi" storyline takes place in areas we've already been.

Anyway, that's my thoughts. There's other possibilities as well, of course.

*Assuming it doesn't turn out that Aurene can contain multitudes...

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From the "Glint's Legacy Saga" (Season 2 to Season 4) we have the following major loose threads:

  1. Foefire cleansing.
  2. Fate of the Nightmare Court?
  3. Replacements for Mordremoth and Zhaitan.
  4. Why did Balthazar not curse Lyssa?And we have the following minor loose threads:
  5. How is Zojja?
  6. How to deal with Primordus and Jormag?
  7. Fate of Menzies.
  8. Who replaced Balthazar?
  9. What Will Desmina Do (WWDD)?
  10. Overseer Kuda - who is she really and what are her plans?
  11. Fate of Qadim (likely resolved with next raid).
  12. Recovery of the Mists and Afterlives.
  13. The royal locket - who is the heir shown?
  14. Why could Aurene use Joko's immortality, when Elder Dragons cannot use mortal's magic and spells?

From "Scarlet's War" (Season 1) we have the following major loose threads:

  1. Mai Trin remains loose.And the following minor loose threads:
  2. Who are the leaders of the Molten Alliance and Toxic Alliance, and do these alliances still exist?
  3. What's up with the tentacles in the karka hive (from Secret of Southsun)?
  4. How fares dredge, Flame Legion, and Krait after their losses?
  5. Fall of Abaddon Fractal - what would it have shown?

From the "Rise of the Commander" (Personal Story) we have the following major loose threads:

  1. Where in the World is Selbbub?
  2. Charr-human peace treaty, Bangar's hatred of it, and the Renegades.And the following minor loose threads:
  3. Magdaer.
  4. Malyck.
  5. Who leads the Inquest?
  6. Who's taken over the Flame Legion after Gaheron's death and three of many civil warring factions died off?
  7. Origin of the Blue Orb?

They've done a good job of tying up loose threads in Seasons 3 and 4, imo, but there's still plenty to do.I'm still hoping that Season 5 deals with the two biggest major loose threads (im): the charr-human peace treaty (+Bangar and renegades), and the replacements for Zhaitan and Mordremoth.

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@Slowpokeking.8720 said:Who is the new god of war?Is Menzies dominating the Fissure of Woe now?

There is a lot of debate about the structure of the Gods and their powers. We know the power of a God can transfer to another being (kormir and Grenth took it from their Precessors). But as with Balthasar, he was stripped from his powers and used Primordus his power to be the same God he always was. We do not know what happened to his first batch of powers, only that it was taken away by the other 5. The second batch is now with Aurene

We do not know the faith of Menzies, but it is unlikely he is still of importance. The fissure of Woe (atleast part of it) is now in ruins in the ocean just south of Orr.

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I think the heart to heart with Kralkatorric hints towards us going back to the Forgotten's idea of converting Elder Dragons to become creatures that are willing to share magic to help regulate it instead of the extreme cycles of feast and famine. Learning that Kralkatorric had been subject to torment driving him to keep destroying is now a subject that Taimi is eagerly looking into and will probably want our help to test hypotheses out and investigate. Which hopefully yields something useful soon since the Deep Sea Dragon is now the only active Elder Dragon in Tyria, meaning no competition for the magic.

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@"mercury ranique.2170" said:We do not know the faith of Menzies, but it is unlikely he is still of importance. The fissure of Woe (atleast part of it) is now in ruins in the ocean just south of Orr.

It was just The Burning Forest. Just a small portion of what we could see in GW1, which was never said to be the whole of FoW at that.

With The Underworld, it seems like it was just the Chaos Plains based on appearance and foes, maybe the Bone Pits too?

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@DaFishBob.6518 said:Which hopefully yields something useful soon since the Deep Sea Dragon is now the only active Elder Dragon in Tyria, meaning no competition for the magic.

There's still Aurene. She hopefully won't go sucking magic out of people, but there's nothing stopping her from going for ley lines.

@"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:Isn't the Inquest are like sleeper cells who simply claim to be part of a collective group? They don't seem to follow a leader rather they are simply collaborating with each other.

The two things we've heard about their overall structure suggest central leadership and a central vision. They're certainly organized and collaborative enough to build their own city. What form that leadership ultimately takes, though, is still very unclear.

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@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:From the "Glint's Legacy Saga" (Season 2 to Season 4) we have the following major loose threads:

  1. Replacements for Mordremoth and Zhaitan.

It seems like they might have handwaved that away with the whole "Aurene can juggle multiple types of magic with no ill effect" thing. Aurene is on her way to becoming a Prismatic Crystal Dragon, or Thyria [hypothetical original singular Elder Dragon] reborn.

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@perilisk.1874 said:

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:From the "Glint's Legacy Saga" (Season 2 to Season 4) we have the following major loose threads:
  1. Replacements for Mordremoth and Zhaitan.

It seems like they might have handwaved that away with the whole "Aurene can juggle multiple types of magic with no ill effect" thing. Aurene is on her way to becoming a Prismatic Crystal Dragon, or Thyria [hypothetical original singular Elder Dragon] reborn.

Yeah, listening to the Guild Chat it wouldn't surprise me. Most of the questions were answered with your typical, "You'll just have to wait and see. *wink wink" But two questions in particular talked about Aurene and her absorbing these magics. One answer being that, diving further into the fact that saying "mother" was intentional, the same thing that happened to Kralk may be something that Aurene has to consider. That while the combined magics tormented Kralk, there may be something else that worsened the situation for him.

The other answer that stood out when asked about Glint knowing Aurene's full potential in relation to her prophecy of Vlast and Aurene replacing the elder dragons and cycling magic, they kind of dodged it a bit and made note that Glint looked like a prism.

So I wouldn't be surprised about Aurene being kind of an absorb all, but with a catch.

On the note about them talking about Kralk saying mother, they mentioned that it was intentional and hinted at it being a story thread moving forward, they also later answered a question about Aurene being the first of her kind in terms of being born from an egg, and that they don't actually internally know the origin of the elder dragons or how they came to be.

So from that we have to consider, this "mother" Kralk mentions, may be the predecessor to Kralk but I think it's pretty safe to say from that answer that this mother isn't somekind of origin of all elder dragons or anything. They said if you listen closely and pay attention during this, the mother bit may give more clues.

Following the dialogue during this story, the torment is saying that Aurene betrays her own kind, but given this I could see it having a double meaning. Implying that there is in fact, as some people have speculated, another elder dragon that may be doing this same betrayal. That there's some elder dragon worsening the effects this magic has. Or for that matter even The All for all we know.

It would be an enormous stretch, but the fact that the pale tree is at the center of it and is the "Pale Mother" I wouldn't be surprised to find a future storyline that involves the Pale Tree potentially being involved somehow. It would seem odd given that she's a dragon champion and you wouldn't think of her as having that much influence, especially over other elder dragons. But who knows.

I'm not sure how much weight I put into any of their hints about this though. It kind of felt like most of it was just formulated in a way that they attempting to avoiding answering and more focused on creating hype.

They mention that they do things quite often knowing that they will have significance later in the story, i.e. Aurene eating Joko, but then mention that they weren't completely sure that Aurene eating Joko was going to be the catalyst for her resurrection. There are multiple other points during this latest guild chat where I was just thinking, "okay, so you mention that this was intentional and you put it there for a reason, but now you're saying that you didn't really have any reason for it to until much later..." I don't know if that makes sense or not. It's like they either "intentionally" create opportunities to come back to something, but don't actually know why until they decide to build on it later. So less about creating these long devised plots that are well mapped out, and more about scattering breadcrumbs and figuring out which one they want to pay off on or make work, or how best to make them work to fit. And if this is the case, if they sort out the specifics of the story pretty much right as they begin development on the episode, it's really anyone's guess as to what will come next.

Apparently Phlunt was going to be a major antagonist this season, and they scrapped that. I'm glad, personally, but it definitely seems like that would be a bit annoying to have to work around for the people developing these episodes. Because at any moment, they could change their minds and have to rebuild future releases to fit that episode.

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Another thing to wonder in relation to all of this, is it the fact that Kralk had all of these magics that created the torment, or is it the fact that Kralk had the magic of two elder dragons and the magic of Balthazar? I mean, Balthazar wasn't a god anymore, but the fact that Kralk absorbing him enabled him to do things the elder dragons normally can't.. like traversing the mists... showing that it's less about the fact that he had all of these magics and more that the magic and potential connection to the all that Balthazar had being non-native to Tyria could be a possibility.

If so, then is a future plot going to be necessary involving the gods and Balthazar's possible replacement and absolving Aurene of this corruptive non-dragon facet?

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@"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:"3. Who leads the Inquest?"

Isn't the Inquest are like sleeper cells who simply claim to be part of a collective group? They don't seem to follow a leader rather they are simply collaborating with each other.

IIRC, it's said that the Inquest have a pyramid hierarchy. Which implies someone (or a group of someones) is at the top.

@perilisk.1874 said:

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:From the "Glint's Legacy Saga" (Season 2 to Season 4) we have the following major loose threads:
  1. Replacements for Mordremoth and Zhaitan.

It seems like they might have handwaved that away with the whole "Aurene can juggle multiple types of magic with no ill effect" thing. Aurene is on her way to becoming a Prismatic Crystal Dragon, or Thyria [hypothetical original singular Elder Dragon] reborn.

I hope not. Season 3 and onward made it clear that there must be four Elder Dragons alive. And Aurene doesn't seem to have Plant and Shadow domains (which Primordus seemed to have taken), just Mind and Death that Kralkatorrik took.

While it's possible Aurene could be a "five domain Elder Dragon" (Death, Mind, Crystal, Kralk's second domain, and the foreign War), she shouldn't be capable of replacing all Elder Dragons even if she could handle all magic simply because The All needs four to six beings.

Besides all that, if consuming multiple magics is particularly hazardous, Aurene may avoid such just to be safe even if magic isn't conflicting in her yet.

@"cptaylor.2670" said:They mention that they do things quite often knowing that they will have significance later in the story, i.e. Aurene eating Joko, but then mention that they weren't completely sure that Aurene eating Joko was going to be the catalyst for her resurrection. There are multiple other points during this latest guild chat where I was just thinking, "okay, so you mention that this was intentional and you put it there for a reason, but now you're saying that you didn't really have any reason for it to until much later..." I don't know if that makes sense or not. It's like they either "intentionally" create opportunities to come back to something, but don't actually know why until they decide to build on it later. So less about creating these long devised plots that are well mapped out, and more about scattering breadcrumbs and figuring out which one they want to pay off on or make work, or how best to make them work to fit. And if this is the case, if they sort out the specifics of the story pretty much right as they begin development on the episode, it's really anyone's guess as to what will come next.

They write what they think seems cool, then afterwards go "okay, how can we make this fit in?"

Which is, imo, a bad way to write a very long story arc, because it results in inconsistencies and retcons frequently.

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Right about now, I would very much like Asuran and Humans to take a back-seat a little and see some love given to Charrs and Norns. While the human-charr peace treaty would involve the former, I think the main point would be dealing with the Blood Legion and its ruler, since Bengar hates all humans vehemently. Dealing with more down to earth difficulties would be appreciated after the scale of the stories thus far. Discovering the Blood and Ash Legions homelands, with potential new species and threats we don't know about, some ancient Charr lore and culture, with less of the Iron Legion style and behavior, could be a great way to develop them beyond the industrialist warriors they are right now.

And with Jormag being put to sleep for now, the Far Shiverpeaks should see a lot less Icebrood activity and ice tempests, meaning that Norns, Kodans and Dredges may be willing to migrate up North once more. Which, in the case of the Humans and Charrs would open a lot of questions. The Norns have basically become a tampon state between the Kingdom of Kryta and the Legions. if they pack up and go North, especially since Braham did pierce the Serpent's tooth, meaning that a lot of them must be very riled up and want to go hunt Jormag. If the Norn aren't there to stop any invasion of their lands, how will the humans and charrs react ?

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@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:They write what they think seems cool, then afterwards go "okay, how can we make this fit in?"

Which is, imo, a bad way to write a very long story arc, because it results in inconsistencies and retcons frequently.

A near perfect summary of my issues with the story.

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@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:I hope not. Season 3 and onward made it clear that there must be four Elder Dragons alive. And Aurene doesn't seem to have Plant and Shadow domains (which Primordus seemed to have taken), just Mind and Death that Kralkatorrik took.

In the last instance, we fought three sub-bosses: Facet of War and Fire, Facet of Roots and Madness, Facet of Death and Shadow. It certainly seems to suggest the Crystal Dragons had taken both spheres from each slain dragon (also, that Balthazar still had access to the same magical spheres he did as one of the Six -- though that isn't surprising, since Dhuum is still a death god in motif).

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@perilisk.1874 said:

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:I hope not. Season 3 and onward made it clear that there must be four Elder Dragons alive. And Aurene doesn't seem to have Plant and Shadow domains (which Primordus seemed to have taken), just Mind and Death that Kralkatorrik took.

In the last instance, we fought three sub-bosses: Facet of War and Fire, Facet of Roots and Madness, Facet of Death and Shadow. It certainly seems to suggest the Crystal Dragons had taken both spheres from each slain dragon (also, that Balthazar still had access to the same magical spheres he did as one of the Six -- though that isn't surprising, since Dhuum is still a death god in motif).

Aurene could drop off either Zhaitan/Mordremoth magic on someone/The Pale Tree respectively and assassinate other dragons so that there remains 4 dragons. We've become the most powerful entity in Tyria with Aurene on our side now and could in pretty short order cycle out the old elder dragons. The other elder dragons certainly know this and would likely hide and try to avoid us.

My guess is the story could take us to something like:

  • The ill effects of what we've done, unforeseen consequences and all that noise
  • Restoring new allied elder dragons and assassinating the old ones
  • Some new villain unrelated to the elder dragons or human gods

LW5 could make sense as a "tying up loose ends" season before a new expansion.

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@perilisk.1874 said:

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:I hope not. Season 3 and onward made it clear that there must be four Elder Dragons alive. And Aurene doesn't seem to have Plant and Shadow domains (which Primordus seemed to have taken), just Mind and Death that Kralkatorrik took.

In the last instance, we fought three sub-bosses: Facet of War and Fire, Facet of Roots and Madness, Facet of Death and Shadow. It certainly seems to suggest the Crystal Dragons had taken both spheres from each slain dragon (also, that Balthazar still had access to the same magical spheres he did as one of the Six -- though that isn't surprising, since Dhuum is still a death god in motif).

I dunno.

Honestly, I found it interesting that Mordremoth's facet was "Roots and Madness" and not Plant and Mind. But aside from that, Kralkatorrik never really exhibited using Shadow or Plant, and we know that Primordus had taken in Plant and potentially Shadow (as Primordus doesn't raise the dead or anything, despite "Death-Touched" Destroyers' name).

@Hesacon.8735 said:

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:I hope not. Season 3 and onward made it clear that there must be four Elder Dragons alive. And Aurene doesn't seem to have Plant and Shadow domains (which Primordus seemed to have taken), just Mind and Death that Kralkatorrik took.

In the last instance, we fought three sub-bosses: Facet of War and Fire, Facet of Roots and Madness, Facet of Death and Shadow. It certainly seems to suggest the Crystal Dragons had taken both spheres from each slain dragon (also, that Balthazar still had access to the same magical spheres he did as one of the Six -- though that isn't surprising, since Dhuum is still a death god in motif).

Aurene could drop off either Zhaitan/Mordremoth magic on someone/The Pale Tree respectively and assassinate other dragons so that there remains 4 dragons. We've become the most powerful entity in Tyria with Aurene on our side now and could in pretty short order cycle out the old elder dragons. The other elder dragons certainly know this and would likely hide and try to avoid us.

My guess is the story could take us to something like:
  • The ill effects of what we've done, unforeseen consequences and all that noise
  • Restoring new allied elder dragons and assassinating the old ones
  • Some new villain unrelated to the elder dragons or human gods

LW5 could make sense as a "tying up loose ends" season before a new expansion.

I think Aurene flying into the distance is a pretty sure sign that we're not going to hear from her in a long time. Guild Chat also talked about not doing constant world-threatening plots, so the next plot is likely to be toned down in scale, and Aurene not present. We're hardly "the most powerful entity in Tyria" - it's just that Aurene is, but she's going to be MIA in order to ensure all future plots are not roflstomp easy in perspective (hopefully they don't use her to dues ex machina a threat out of the way).

As to using Aurene to battle other Elder Dragons, that idea has two issues. First, Aurene's a brand new Elder Dragon still coming into her powers. Second, a battle between titanic forces is pretty damn dangerous (this was the entire reason Kormir refused to fight for us); last time there was such a clash, a sea twice the size of Orr boiled away and its shoreline turned toxic. if the DSD came to Tyria's shoreline, we could kiss half the continent goodbye if Aurene were to fight it - let alone Primordus or Jormag given their locations.

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