Soulbeast Needs Some Genuine Nerf Bat Love in the Next Balance Update — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Soulbeast Needs Some Genuine Nerf Bat Love in the Next Balance Update

Twilight Tempest.7584Twilight Tempest.7584 Member ✭✭✭
edited June 11, 2019 in PVP

I generally refrain from calling for outright nerfs, but it is beyond time for Soulbeast to have its turn with the nerf bat like everyone else.

I don't care if we're talking Boonbeast, Sic 'Em Sniper, or anything in between. Just far too much sustain for its level of output--period. Or far too much damage for its level of sustain, take your pick. Either way, far too effective for how safe it is to play.

LOS iS yOuR fRiEnd

I don't care if LOS can counter Longbow. You don't always have access to LOS every time they start blasting you with heavily boosted Rapid Fire from somewhere off screen. Many builds are left with a chunk of their health gone, and a dodge blown before even engaging thanks to a SlB mashing a few keys from [Edit] 1500+ 1800+ range while you're running or fighting someone else.

SnIpEr iS a RoLe

I don't care if Sic 'Em Sniper can be compared to how Deadeye was. Death's Judgment was way more telegraphed on a build that was as glass as it gets, and look what happened to it.

It'S nOt EvEn UsEd aT ToP LeVeL/mAt

I don't care if Soulbeast is not the most viable in the top 10% when it's over performing in the remaining 90%.

Reality Check

Even as Soulbeast escapes balance update after balance update untouched, it gets indirectly buffed when potential counters like Mesmer have most of their Reflection deleted. As it stands, Soulbeast is one of only a couple specs that have not seen real, build-altering nerfs since creation.

Way too many stacking damage modifiers, excessive unblockable, and trait synergies resulting in a literal beast of an overtuned spec. I'm looking at you: Unstoppable Union, Sic 'Em, Strength of the Pack, coupled with Maul, Worldy Impact, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Fire, etc.

Way too much sustain via access to stealth, mobility, protection + heal on dodge, boon spam, and invuln, and way too much damage relative to that amount of sustain--on all viable builds. Way too safe to play by dealing huge damage at max range, and way too forgiving thanks to pets and passives. Even if the Soulbeast messes up, even if it's downed, their self-res is best-in-game thanks to their pets. Speaking of pets, there are zero consequences for their pets dying since they're instantly revived after being merged and unmerged. It's the ultimate low-risk, high-reward, no trade-offs spec.

[Edit] If Soulbeast doesn't get hit, and hit hard, in the next major balance update, they are apparently immune to change, and a big part of why inter-class balance is so broken. All I want is for SLB damage to be toned down as part of a universal reverse power-creeping. However that is best accomplished, I trust to the profession experts.

Suggestions That Have Been Made:

  • Reduce Sic 'Em damage modifier from 40% to 20% (or less) in Beast Mode, or even remove it completely. Others have suggested leaving damage but cutting range from 2,000 to 1,000 (or less) to tone down long range snipes and shift the boost towards melee. Regardless, I would suggest only changing its interaction in Beat Mode in order not to punish core Ranger.
  • Make Unstoppable Union's unblockable effect apply only to the next [certain number of] attacks instead of for the next 4 seconds.
  • Generally tone down SLB's best-in-game damage multiplier stacking which can reach 82%!
  • As a trade off with core Ranger (currently there are none), limit SLB to one pet.
  • Trevor Boyer.6524's suggestions emphasizing reductions to Unblockable, halving Sic 'Em range, and more even damage distribution.

Follow-Ups:

05/17/19: My less-ranty opinion here.
06/02/19: Yummy combat log screen here.

<13456789

Comments

  • @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    Nothing currently S tier is going to get nerfs. Ever. Period. The only thing that matters is how annoyed people are by thieves and mesmers and nerfing them until no one ever plays them again.

    I admit, part of my reason for starting a separate SlB thread is to see if they can collectively generate enough noise to get something done. It certainly worked on mesmer. The double standards may be insurmountable though.

    Make just the right amount of noise so as not to burn the class into Oblivion... Good luck :'(

  • @mortrialus.3062 said:
    And yet not only are they not seeing nerfs, they keep seeing buffs.

    :o hmmmmm

  • FyzE.3472FyzE.3472 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @praqtos.9035 said:
    Some text

    Yeah, well, I multi-class that's why I ask how to play X vs Y.
    Also that helps me to see the bigger picture, not just complain about stuff I have trouble with.
    I admit, I was one of the people who was complaining about mirage. But then I thought "Hey, this does not help me at all! Let me try and actually listen to the advice other mirages give on how to outplay one." You know what? Worked like a charm! I even asked a couple of people to duel me so I can practice. Never got trouble with mirage ever since (even before it was gutted).

    The greatest thing is: after all of that when I give advice on how to play vs something, people are just too spiteful to listen. Calling it "useless comments" lol. Well, if you did not quote me I would be just playing the game the way it is. And just joke on forums because no one here needs advice, they are here to vent. So that's what I do now. Just joke around, having a good time and a few laughs here and there. Just because people won't listen even if you say how to deal with certain builds. They will more likely just start hating on you and saying that your comments are useless without even trying to take at least one advice from other people.

  • FyzE.3472FyzE.3472 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 17, 2019

    @praqtos.9035 said:
    "answer"

    If you actually read my comment, it said "now I'm here to have fun, and have a few laughs here and there" or something. Try and read what I typed, please. And, as always, ignore the most important part. Guess you're just cool like that.

  • FyzE.3472FyzE.3472 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @praqtos.9035 said:
    You didnt help anyone . As I said , this stupid comments like JUST DODGE arent advice. Such builds like sic em lack counter play and its highly unfun to play against. You burn both evades for lb4/rapid fire if you notice it in time, you have no time to LoS it as it goes with quickness fast. You cant block it , so next take down is going to be lethal for you if you didnt die to over 30k damage from rapid fire coupled with OWP. Sic em is and unstoppable union is dumb and must be heavily nerfed.

    OK but serious talk for a second here. Did you just said "if you burn your dodge on lb4 -> lb2, you will then get lb4d -> lb2d"?

  • TorQ.7041TorQ.7041 Member ✭✭✭

    L2p, git gud and dodge (:

  • Snellibee.2761Snellibee.2761 Member ✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    Nothing currently S tier is going to get nerfs. Ever. Period.

    Just on an objective mathematical perspective, Spellbreaker, Holosmith, Scrapper, Rev and Soulbeast have been the absolute best builds in ranked. For three balance patches in a row. Period. Literally everyone in the top 10 are playing one of those builds. By my personal count and estimate, based on the players I know and what builds they play, literally 90% of the top 100 main those five builds. And yet not only are they not seeing nerfs, they keep seeing buffs.

    I don't think it's fair to assume that because good players main a certain class that it must be because the class is overperforming. A lot of it is just personal preference as I myself would never be able to play Soulbeast or Holosmith because I just don't like the way they work. However there will always be top classes in every game. I honestly can't think of a game where all classes are as good as the other. This is mainly because in gw2 spvp we have one kitten competitive gamemode. Some classes just work better for the structure conquest has to offer. I want to bet that if there would be more gamemodes like pure TDM or King of the Hill that some other classes that don't work in conquest would become more viable.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    question: why isn't boonbeast listed on metabattle anymore? have they fallen out of favor?

    you don't know till you know, ya know.

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 17, 2019

    @FyzE.3472 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:
    You didnt help anyone . As I said , this stupid comments like JUST DODGE arent advice. Such builds like sic em lack counter play and its highly unfun to play against. You burn both evades for lb4/rapid fire** if you notice it in time**, you have no time to LoS it as it goes with quickness fast. You cant block it , so next take down is going to be lethal for you if you didnt die to over 30k damage from rapid fire coupled with OWP. Sic em is and unstoppable union is dumb and must be heavily nerfed.

    OK but serious talk for a second here. Did you just said "if you burn your dodge on lb4 -> lb2, you will then get lb4d -> lb2d"?

    You didnt.
    Lets read it together : you have to burn your both evades to not die to LB4->LB2 if you notice it in time (that I will talk in the end in case you didnt evade it, which does about 30k damage combined only from rapid fire+one wolf, dont even start me on double mauls), its too fast to find cover behind any LoS, if you managed to double evade it, take down from merged will be unblockable and you are out of evades, so it will be lethal(wi,chain CC on gs etc) and in the end I talk about what will happen with you if you didnt notice/react on LB4->LB2? May be my English bad but I never said you will get double LB4-LB2 if you read through it

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    When it's thief or mesmer being effective at anything- nerf cry's flood the forums. It's unfair, gut it,something needs to be done whine whine whine.
    When it's any other class- use los,get gud,l2p,just dodge and stay outa range lmao
    Seriously ridiculous

    Exactly, double standarts baby

  • Crystal Paladin.3871Crystal Paladin.3871 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 17, 2019

    Even after boonbeast got nerfed and fallen out of meta, ppl posted boonbeast is OP for some time even after 2 months and now, the sound died down...
    And now, ppl feel sicem is OP(after 2 years approx)... Even though ranger didn't get any significant buff since the boonbeast nerfs and subsequent nerfs, ppl consider anything with longbow/sicem OP....

    maybe it's coz of a few top ranger players posting some edited boasting videos of themselves making quick work of other players in PVP with a zerky jerk sicem sniper build variations....

    Or...

    The mob(community) been manipulated to face the other way while a sneaky class/build can escape getting noticed??? :p

    I don't want to list any sneaky OP classes here :p

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ProverbsofHell.2307 said:
    Reduce Ranger's skill range to 1200. Then it will be 1500 and not 1800 like it is now.

    Its 1900 on first three skills and 1500 on 4rd. Dont believe me ? Log in the game and check yourself :)

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    When it's thief or mesmer being effective at anything- nerf cry's flood the forums. It's unfair, gut it,something needs to be done whine whine whine.
    When it's any other class- use los,get gud,l2p,just dodge and stay outa range lmao
    Seriously ridiculous

    Exactly, double standarts baby

    There are ranger players ACTUALLY saying sic em needs a buff to make soulbeast competitive lmao somtimes u get a little faith in this community than u read garbage like that.

    Exactly. That what you said exactly happening with all this rampage-mains jumping at me with foam at the mouth ignoring opinion of other top players that left.

  • Yannir.4132Yannir.4132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:
    LOS iS yOuR fRiEnd

    I don't care if LOS can counter Longbow. You don't always have access to LOS every time they start blasting you with heavily boosted Rapid Fire from somewhere off screen. Many builds are left with a chunk of their health gone, and a dodge blown before even engaging thanks to a SlB mashing a few keys from 1500+ range while you're running or fighting someone else.

    If the Soulbeast, or any other ranged class, catches you in the open, it's either bad play from you, or good play from them. Anyway if this happens you are supposed to die. You got outplayed and punished accordingly.

    SnIpEr iS a RoLe

    I don't care if Sic 'Em Sniper can be compared to how Deadeye was. Death's Judgment was way more telegraphed on a build that was as glass as it gets, and look what happened to it.

    DJ was an unblockable 1-shot. Literally. Rapid Fire is a channel.

    Way too many stacking damage modifiers, excessive unblockable, and trait synergies resulting in a literal beast of an overtuned spec. I'm looking at you: Unstoppable Union, Sic 'Em, Strength of the Pack, coupled with Maul, Worldy Impact, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Fire, etc.

    Unstoppable Union does need to have Unblockable removed from it, and something needs to be done to Sic Em like maybe splitting the damage bonus for PvP/WvW.
    Anything more would be overkill though.

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 17, 2019

    @Yannir.4132 said:

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:
    LOS iS yOuR fRiEnd

    I don't care if LOS can counter Longbow. You don't always have access to LOS every time they start blasting you with heavily boosted Rapid Fire from somewhere off screen. Many builds are left with a chunk of their health gone, and a dodge blown before even engaging thanks to a SlB mashing a few keys from 1500+ range while you're running or fighting someone else.

    If the Soulbeast, or any other ranged class, catches you in the open, it's either bad play from you, or good play from them. Anyway if this happens you are supposed to die. You got outplayed and punished accordingly.

    You play conquest and on the point/between them a lot of wide open space? Thats actually your fault now!

    SnIpEr iS a RoLe

    I don't care if Sic 'Em Sniper can be compared to how Deadeye was. Death's Judgment was way more telegraphed on a build that was as glass as it gets, and look what happened to it.

    DJ was an unblockable 1-shot. Literally. Rapid Fire is a channel.

    Sic em into nblockable knock with rapid fire under quickness? Never heard of !

    Way too many stacking damage modifiers, excessive unblockable, and trait synergies resulting in a literal beast of an overtuned spec. I'm looking at you: Unstoppable Union, Sic 'Em, Strength of the Pack, coupled with Maul, Worldy Impact, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Fire, etc.

    Unstoppable Union does need to have Unblockable removed from it, and something needs to be done to Sic Em like maybe splitting the damage bonus for PvP/WvW.
    Anything more would be overkill though.

    I see the light in the end of the tunnel... may be....

    @Crystal Paladin.3871
    The mob(community) been manipulated to face the other way while a sneaky class/build can escape getting noticed??? :p
    I don't want to list any sneaky OP classes here :p

    Please do , at least in private, if its worth it, I will make another thread :)

  • Vithzerai.3291Vithzerai.3291 Member ✭✭
    edited May 17, 2019

    What're we planning on making unviable after Soulbeast by the way bois?

  • kin korn karn.9023kin korn karn.9023 Member ✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    High level teams are dictated by the meta TEAM comps is it not?

    No offense, but your wording is awkward and I don't understand what you're trying to say. But it seems like you're focusing on "high level teams," while I'm talking about just about any individual player above gold division. This so-called "one-shot" stops working, and you have to earn your kills just like any class. I do agree that there may be a bit too much unblockable, or perhaps Sic Em provides a bit too much damage. But even as it is, there are already at least a few other dps builds with a superior kit to any Soulbeast build. Very much nerf and Sic Em build will become completely unviable, which I expect will happen because that's what's been done with every other ranger build (the most recent being Boon Beast). People complain on forum because they don't know how to counterplay, then Anet just goes HAM and guts it. Which is fine I guess. I have no attachment to ranger, I just think it'll be a shame once they've nerfed every last ranger build out of the meta.

  • kin korn karn.9023kin korn karn.9023 Member ✭✭✭

    @DanAlcedo.3281 said:

    Idk man.
    Doing 10-12k Autohits from 1800+ range and doing enough dmg to kill the mount and bring the player in downstate in a single rapid fire is a bit much eh?

    There is a reason why its the most played roaming class.

    Its extremly easy to play and super save with its very good mobility + range.

    It even has stealth!

    I wouldn't know about that. I've never liked wvw and only pop in occasionally for a Gift of Battle or maybe some Grandmaster shards. Kinda off topic in the pvp forum imo.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @kin korn karn.9023 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    High level teams are dictated by the meta TEAM comps is it not?

    No offense, but your wording is awkward and I don't understand what you're trying to say. But it seems like you're focusing on "high level teams," while I'm talking about just about any individual player above gold division. This so-called "one-shot" stops working, and you have to earn your kills just like any class. I do agree that there may be a bit too much unblockable, or perhaps Sic Em provides a bit too much damage. But even as it is, there are already at least a few other dps builds with a superior kit to any Soulbeast build. Very much nerf and Sic Em build will become completely unviable, which I expect will happen because that's what's been done with every other ranger build (the most recent being Boon Beast). People complain on forum because they don't know how to counterplay, then Anet just goes HAM and guts it. Which is fine I guess. I have no attachment to ranger, I just think it'll be a shame once they've nerfed every last ranger build out of the meta.

    I'm saying sic em build may not be used in high level mats due to their being better builds or classes that complement team play for example fb/scourge are a staple. Fb is far from a op roamer in wvw but alot of people people would say its OP in conquest and zergs. Same with scourge. Boonbeast would probably be more effective in conquest but in a mode like wvw sic em is more popular for a reason. It's easy to stay at range in a open map like wvw provides and merge,hit sitcom than lb2 and delete most classes,especially is ur +1 the opponent from 1500 range.

  • kin korn karn.9023kin korn karn.9023 Member ✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @kin korn karn.9023 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    High level teams are dictated by the meta TEAM comps is it not?

    No offense, but your wording is awkward and I don't understand what you're trying to say. But it seems like you're focusing on "high level teams," while I'm talking about just about any individual player above gold division. This so-called "one-shot" stops working, and you have to earn your kills just like any class. I do agree that there may be a bit too much unblockable, or perhaps Sic Em provides a bit too much damage. But even as it is, there are already at least a few other dps builds with a superior kit to any Soulbeast build. Very much nerf and Sic Em build will become completely unviable, which I expect will happen because that's what's been done with every other ranger build (the most recent being Boon Beast). People complain on forum because they don't know how to counterplay, then Anet just goes HAM and guts it. Which is fine I guess. I have no attachment to ranger, I just think it'll be a shame once they've nerfed every last ranger build out of the meta.

    I'm saying sic em build may not be used in high level mats due to their being better builds or classes that complement team play for example fb/scourge are a staple. Fb is far from a op roamer in wvw but alot of people people would say its OP in conquest and zergs. Same with scourge. Boonbeast would probably be more effective in conquest but in a mode like wvw sic em is more popular for a reason. It's easy to stay at range in a open map like wvw provides and merge,hit sitcom than lb2 and delete most classes,especially is ur +1 the opponent from 1500 range.

    Oh, okay. This is the pvp forum, so I assumed we were talking about pvp. I can see what you're saying with open spaces, but wvw is not a gamemode I know or care much about.

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I have to ask... why do these threads always devolve into extreme ends of an argument?

    Can't things get minor shaves?

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • Yannir.4132Yannir.4132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @praqtos.9035 said:
    Sic em into nblockable knock with rapid fire under quickness? Never heard of !

    Ever heard of a stunbreak maybe?

  • ProverbsofHell.2307ProverbsofHell.2307 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @ProverbsofHell.2307 said:
    Reduce Ranger's skill range to 1200. Then it will be 1500 and not 1800 like it is now.

    Its 1900 on first three skills and 1500 on 4rd. Dont believe me ? Log in the game and check yourself :)

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    When it's thief or mesmer being effective at anything- nerf cry's flood the forums. It's unfair, gut it,something needs to be done whine whine whine.
    When it's any other class- use los,get gud,l2p,just dodge and stay outa range lmao
    Seriously ridiculous

    Exactly, double standarts baby

    There are ranger players ACTUALLY saying sic em needs a buff to make soulbeast competitive lmao somtimes u get a little faith in this community than u read garbage like that.

    Exactly. That what you said exactly happening with all this rampage-mains jumping at me with foam at the mouth ignoring opinion of other top players that left.

    ???

    I literally told you that I know the skills exceed their intended 1500 range, because the arrow trajectory carries it a further 300 units (it's not 400 units like you said, it's 300). They probably can't fix the arrow arcing but they can make the range 1200 for 1-3 skills so that it actually becomes 1500 and not higher.

  • Inoki.6048Inoki.6048 Member ✭✭✭

    Not sure it matters or not, but as a player I reverted back to Druid from Soulbeast as it got super boring to just look away from the screen and press 2 buttons to defeat someone. Druid, while significantly lower on stats compared to Soulbeast, can kill opponents easily and it makes it more fun and challenging (looks at fellow Ranger players).

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 17, 2019

    @ProverbsofHell.2307 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @ProverbsofHell.2307 said:
    Reduce Ranger's skill range to 1200. Then it will be 1500 and not 1800 like it is now.

    Its 1900 on first three skills and 1500 on 4rd. Dont believe me ? Log in the game and check yourself :)

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    When it's thief or mesmer being effective at anything- nerf cry's flood the forums. It's unfair, gut it,something needs to be done whine whine whine.
    When it's any other class- use los,get gud,l2p,just dodge and stay outa range lmao
    Seriously ridiculous

    Exactly, double standarts baby

    There are ranger players ACTUALLY saying sic em needs a buff to make soulbeast competitive lmao somtimes u get a little faith in this community than u read garbage like that.

    Exactly. That what you said exactly happening with all this rampage-mains jumping at me with foam at the mouth ignoring opinion of other top players that left.

    ???

    I literally told you that I know the skills exceed their intended 1500 range, because the arrow trajectory carries it a further 300 units (it's not 400 units like you said, it's 300). They probably can't fix the arrow arcing but they can make the range 1200 for 1-3 skills so that it actually becomes 1500 and not higher.

    If you can prove its 1800 I'm all ears.
    What I did is test with /say being 2000 range,abit stepping back from range where you can hit and you cant see /say anymore, so I assume its 1900 :)
    Do you think engi rifle autos are 1500 too? Highly doubt

  • Asuran.5469Asuran.5469 Member ✭✭

    This one was funny.

  • Revolution.5409Revolution.5409 Member ✭✭✭

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:
    I admit, part of my reason for starting a separate SlB thread is to see if they can collectively generate enough noise to get something done. It certainly worked on mesmer. The double standards may be insurmountable though.

    With mirage it worked because an entire community required an attunement for the profession, here I only see people who require nerfs because they feel that their profession is no longer the strongest.

  • Megametzler.5729Megametzler.5729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Asuran.5469 said:
    This one was funny.

    About as funny as a Formula 1 driver making fun of people driving VW Polos after a race, yeah.

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