Soulbeast Needs Some Genuine Nerf Bat Love in the Next Balance Update - Page 5 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Soulbeast Needs Some Genuine Nerf Bat Love in the Next Balance Update

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  • Zexanima.7851Zexanima.7851 Member ✭✭✭

    I'd say just remove the damage buff from Sic 'em or just remove the skill all together. It's a waste of a slot honestly. Then half the duration of the boons on FR. Then change Moa Stance's to only grant might, fury, and swiftness while the boon duration increase is only 33%. This would still allow for a good burst of boons stacking but a lot less duration and not as many defensive boons.

    No longer playing the game due to PvP being abandon.

  • Zexanima.7851Zexanima.7851 Member ✭✭✭

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:
    So soulbeast mains don't think the class is overtuned? Who thinks it is overtuned?

    Those who have not yet deciphered and put to use the secret knowledge hidden in this meme.

    If you're so far out in the middle of no where you can't get behind some kind of geometry then you've done something wrong. LoS isn't just a "avoid ranger lb 2" thing, it's a sustain thing. Got to keep your positioning in mind at all times. To keep in the sprit of the memes, I probably avoid most of the damage I would take by doing this

    No longer playing the game due to PvP being abandon.

  • Twilight Tempest.7584Twilight Tempest.7584 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 5, 2019

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:
    So soulbeast mains don't think the class is overtuned? Who thinks it is overtuned?

    Those who have not yet deciphered and put to use the secret knowledge hidden in this meme.

    If you're so far out in the middle of no where you can't get behind some kind of geometry then you've done something wrong. LoS isn't just a "avoid ranger lb 2" thing, it's a sustain thing. Got to keep your positioning in mind at all times. To keep in the sprit of the memes, I probably avoid most of the damage I would take by doing this

    Travelling open areas between capture points?
    Already engaged on a capture point and SLB lb's from off screen out of stealth? (Don't say "but DE" because that had an obvious tell and was easily punished for failing.)

    Rapid Fire cast is often sped up by Quickness too.

    Using LoS is an important tactic, but isn't always possible.

  • bigo.9037bigo.9037 Member ✭✭✭

    @Zexanima.7851 said:
    I'd say just remove the damage buff from Sic 'em or just remove the skill all together. It's a waste of a slot honestly. Then half the duration of the boons on FR. Then change Moa Stance's to only grant might, fury, and swiftness while the boon duration increase is only 33%. This would still allow for a good burst of boons stacking but a lot less duration and not as many defensive boons.

    Oh ok yea how about we delete thief from the game as well and remove adrenaline from warriors while we're at it lmao

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:
    I'd say just remove the damage buff from Sic 'em or just remove the skill all together. It's a waste of a slot honestly. Then half the duration of the boons on FR. Then change Moa Stance's to only grant might, fury, and swiftness while the boon duration increase is only 33%. This would still allow for a good burst of boons stacking but a lot less duration and not as many defensive boons.

    Oh ok yea how about we delete thief from the game as well and remove adrenaline from warriors while we're at it lmao

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:
    I'd say just remove the damage buff from Sic 'em or just remove the skill all together. It's a waste of a slot honestly. Then half the duration of the boons on FR. Then change Moa Stance's to only grant might, fury, and swiftness while the boon duration increase is only 33%. This would still allow for a good burst of boons stacking but a lot less duration and not as many defensive boons.

    Oh ok yea how about we delete thief from the game as well and remove adrenaline from warriors while we're at it lmao

    Thief is being deleted. Theyve started with DD and d/p by changing steal to swipe and cemented s/d as the only competitive build. P/p was killed long time ago so not much left to kill but I'm sure arenet will finish the job, but as far as slb their prob just getting started lol hope u enjoy the ride. Oh and as a non thief player I'm sure u think the class is fine,just as I'm sure ud say it's fine even its weapons were all changed to foam pool noodles to match their dps on MOST of their weapons. Just as I'm sure ranger could be given a 90% boost to dps at a press of a button and ud be on here trying to explain to everyone why it's fine balance wise. This whole arguement is a joke,has been from the beginning as soon as someone defends the sic em build burst again unblockable all from 1800+ range lmao so I'm done.

  • Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Turk.5460 said:
    Wow, 5 pages already. This must have garnered some attention by ANET by now. I'm excited to see the trade-off they're going to create for Soulbeast like they did recently with other elites. Currently it's just a straight up buff to core ranger, right?

    But, it has not been a year of complaints yet. So, probably another buff. I honestly think the main hand dagger for soulbeast may be poopier than renegade.

    Soon™ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

  • ZeteCommander.4937ZeteCommander.4937 Member ✭✭✭

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Their necessary, I kno that's hard to accept about ur class. Soulbeast isn't OP sic em is. Druid needs buffs I will say that.

    It is not OP at all. Most high tier rangers don't even run with it, fact, (because it is useless against skilled enemies) - they prefer more stun breaks and invulnerability. Lets not build our nerf suggestion strategies according to bronze/silver/gold tiers, where we can see a lot more playstyle flaws.

    Again u can keep using the it's not in top ranks arguement but means little. Sic em may not be a top pic for high tier players,that means little. In wvw SIC EM builds are literally every other player u see because it's broken unblockable dps at such a range. Just because it's not a skill picked often in high tier due to there being more reliable options for THAT game mode that fill the purpose of the player doesnt make it not OP in other modes. Although I'm sure sic em is used in conquest regardless of u stating it isn't. That skill alone with the range would make a slb a decent +1 spec .

    Firstly this is a pvp forum not wvw. Wvw perspective hardly mean anything here. Secondly, good players can easily deal with a sicem ranger if they are ready for it even in wvw. I killed many of them on my slb without using sicem. I've died a few times cus I wasn't ready, or straight up afk to sicem rangers. I've died more often to mesmers 1shotting me out of stealth. Talk about 0 counter play lol. But hey, that's my own fault for running around with squishy armor that has 0 toughness and low protection uptime.

    Again, gold tier players (pvp) and below... You are shooting yourself in the foot by wanting nerfs to classes you can't deal with .. the game will be dumbed down and no matter what 1 build will always be annoying or stronger than yours...

    They dont balance classes just for conquest nor wvw so how a class effects one mode effects another. If a class is broken in wvw while not as broken in pvp scourge as example does not mean it's fine since it's ok in pvp conquest mode. Since balancing and changes to a class effect it in both modes discussing its balance in conquest also carries over to wvw no? That's why I included wvw as both are effected by changes and balance of classes in both have to be considered.

    Wrong wrong wrong. Conquest is different from wvw. Something that works in wvw doesn't always work in spvp. Why do you think they split the balance between those modes?

    They are not different, nor should they be.Unless players can't attack each other in WvW

  • ZeteCommander.4937ZeteCommander.4937 Member ✭✭✭

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Their necessary, I kno that's hard to accept about ur class. Soulbeast isn't OP sic em is. Druid needs buffs I will say that.

    It is not OP at all. Most high tier rangers don't even run with it, fact, (because it is useless against skilled enemies) - they prefer more stun breaks and invulnerability. Lets not build our nerf suggestion strategies according to bronze/silver/gold tiers, where we can see a lot more playstyle flaws.

    Again u can keep using the it's not in top ranks arguement but means little. Sic em may not be a top pic for high tier players,that means little. In wvw SIC EM builds are literally every other player u see because it's broken unblockable dps at such a range. Just because it's not a skill picked often in high tier due to there being more reliable options for THAT game mode that fill the purpose of the player doesnt make it not OP in other modes. Although I'm sure sic em is used in conquest regardless of u stating it isn't. That skill alone with the range would make a slb a decent +1 spec .

    Firstly this is a pvp forum not wvw. Wvw perspective hardly mean anything here. Secondly, good players can easily deal with a sicem ranger if they are ready for it even in wvw. I killed many of them on my slb without using sicem. I've died a few times cus I wasn't ready, or straight up afk to sicem rangers. I've died more often to mesmers 1shotting me out of stealth. Talk about 0 counter play lol. But hey, that's my own fault for running around with squishy armor that has 0 toughness and low protection uptime.

    Again, gold tier players (pvp) and below... You are shooting yourself in the foot by wanting nerfs to classes you can't deal with .. the game will be dumbed down and no matter what 1 build will always be annoying or stronger than yours...

    You think it's easy to kill ranger because you're slb,slb is most op of duel.Why don't you try with a condi weaver, reaper or mesmer ?

  • bOTEB.1573bOTEB.1573 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I just keep wonder this thing. Soulbeast has been here with the Sic 'Em mechanic since 2017.

    Why do you want nerfs now? Is it because your favorite profession (mesmer) was nerfed (which was bad nerf, not balanced)? Is it that you just want to see more unbalanced and unreasonable nerfs against different professions?

    I mean, for you and the OP the Soulbeast was OK 2 years and suddenly it is not ok but not because of the Soulbeast (it hasn't changed during that time) but because of another profession's changes.

    As you can see I am not here to spread nonsense and every post of mine is logical/fact. Your whole argument and the OP arguments are nonsense, parody.

    The only change we may see with Soulbeast is overall buff. Yes we can see adjustments of some skills but the overall change should be a buff because, I repeat, the overall performance of the build is bad across all game modes.

    Wishlist:
    Everything that kills me should be nerfed
    Remove all time gates - I play more than some people yet I receive the same rewards per day/week (PvP/WvW tickets etc)
    ANET developments/events and everything else should be in a schedule with the time I play

  • bOTEB.1573bOTEB.1573 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    I just keep wonder this thing. Soulbeast has been here with the Sic 'Em mechanic since 2017.

    Why do you want nerfs now? Is it because your favorite profession

    I've always had a perspective that absolutely no one skill should not be critting for 20k+. Let alone 40k the way we've seen with Sic Em Soulbeast.

    Personally I'm not a die hard on Soulbeast nerfs. Spellbreaker, Engineer of all stripes ,and Glint Shiro Herald are far more deserving of nerfs.

    But at the end of the day 30k rapid fires should not be a thing. And longbow in general should require more IQ for all builds than 4>2.

    Yet you didn't express your opinion last year or 2017, you started 2019 ;)
    Anyway, you said it yourself - there are far more powerful builds than the Soulbeast.

    Wishlist:
    Everything that kills me should be nerfed
    Remove all time gates - I play more than some people yet I receive the same rewards per day/week (PvP/WvW tickets etc)
    ANET developments/events and everything else should be in a schedule with the time I play

  • bOTEB.1573bOTEB.1573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 6, 2019

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    I just keep wonder this thing. Soulbeast has been here with the Sic 'Em mechanic since 2017.

    Why do you want nerfs now?

    I don't know why I bother with you. Have you noticed you're basically the only one who actually thinks SLB needs buffs of any kind? I don't think anyone agreed with you in that thread you created about buffing Sic 'Em, including SLB mains. It's almost hard to take you seriously, yet you say @mortrialus.3062 and I speak "nonsense, parody."

    As to your question, see this response to someone above also trying the "why now?" diversion. Also, people have been saying Sic 'Em, among other things, is too strong for a while, not just recently. I'm sure you can find it if you look.

    You don't have to bother with me at all. You open a public thread where people can express their opinions. I know you can't give answers to my questions because they will put you in a disadvantage, bad position. No, there are little to no complaints about sic 'em in 2017/2018 - I have been here + I have checked recently. The amount if sic 'em complaints have been sky rocketing ever since your mesmer nerfs. By the way you can see the thumbs up on my posts and on the thread I have opened, right? It is crazy (according to you), I know, but some people agree with me and this is a fact - no need to think about it. Don't bother responding to me if you don't like. I already said what is my opinion and, oh look, some people still agree with me. "I'm sure you can find it if you look."

    Wishlist:
    Everything that kills me should be nerfed
    Remove all time gates - I play more than some people yet I receive the same rewards per day/week (PvP/WvW tickets etc)
    ANET developments/events and everything else should be in a schedule with the time I play

  • bOTEB.1573bOTEB.1573 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:
    And more people disagree with you too. But feel free to ignore them in favor of a few anonymous likes. :)

    Sorry pal, you're in for some disappointment if you think Sic ' Em is getting a buff.

    My body is ready ;)
    I believe the overall outcome will be a buff to the Soulbeast, not a nerf.

    P.S Yes, I know some people don't agree with me, but the difference between you and me is that I am okay with that.

    Wishlist:
    Everything that kills me should be nerfed
    Remove all time gates - I play more than some people yet I receive the same rewards per day/week (PvP/WvW tickets etc)
    ANET developments/events and everything else should be in a schedule with the time I play

  • @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:
    And more people disagree with you too. But feel free to ignore them in favor of a few anonymous likes. :)

    Sorry pal, you're in for some disappointment if you think Sic ' Em is getting a buff.

    My body is ready ;)
    I believe the overall outcome will be a buff to the Soulbeast, not a nerf.

    P.S Yes, I know some people don't agree with me, but the difference between you and me is that I am okay with that.

    You always make things personal lol.

    FIFY:

    Yes, I know some people almost everyone who posted in my thread and the many more likes those posts got don't agree with me, but the difference between you and me is that I am okay with that pretend otherwise.

  • bOTEB.1573bOTEB.1573 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:
    And more people disagree with you too. But feel free to ignore them in favor of a few anonymous likes. :)

    Sorry pal, you're in for some disappointment if you think Sic ' Em is getting a buff.

    My body is ready ;)
    I believe the overall outcome will be a buff to the Soulbeast, not a nerf.

    P.S Yes, I know some people don't agree with me, but the difference between you and me is that I am okay with that.

    You always make things personal lol.

    FIFY:

    Yes, I know some people almost everyone who posted in my thread and the many more likes those posts got don't agree with me, but the difference between you and me is that I am okay with that pretend otherwise.

    Hey, I understand you - part of your reason for starting a separate SlB thread is to see if some people can collectively generate enough noise to get something done.
    Well, the noise also brings people that don't agree with you and you have to accept it. Like a lot of them. You, the players, the devs - all can see these comments (just look after your OP), oh and they also have thumbs up of their posts.... Yeah, many people think that the SLB shouldn't be nerfed, sorry. They just don't agree with you and their arguments are very very logical. Devs can see these arguments and can decide better what is best for the SLB - a buff to bring it in a viable position in some game modes, leave it like that (completely underperforming in higher tiers) or nerf it and literally destroy the whole espec. For me, it would be the easiest decision ever but we can all hope for the best, until the end, right? ;)

    Wishlist:
    Everything that kills me should be nerfed
    Remove all time gates - I play more than some people yet I receive the same rewards per day/week (PvP/WvW tickets etc)
    ANET developments/events and everything else should be in a schedule with the time I play

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 6, 2019

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:
    I don't know why I bother with you. Have you noticed you're basically the only one who actually thinks SLB needs buffs of any kind? I don't think anyone agreed with you in that thread you created about buffing Sic 'Em, including SLB mains. It's almost hard to take you seriously, yet you say @mortrialus.3062 and I speak "nonsense, parody."

    As to your question, see this response to someone above also trying the "why now?" diversion. Also, people have been saying Sic 'Em, among other things, is too strong for a while, not just recently. I'm sure you can find it if you look.

    You re mistaken again, many ranger mains agree soulbeast, ranger and druid needs plain buffs.

    Some may agree with fine tunning some skills but that doesn't mean we agree with your statement. And keep in mind most of the commentaries here aren't even from pleople who plays ranger yet some prettend to be mains thou.
    It's funny ranger is the only class with so many "it's my main" pretenders. That's why i think in our profiles should be perfectly visible the time spent on each gamemode and with each class.

    Still i agree with you about your point where the ranger in general being a mess and It would need some buffing all across the class.

  • Koen.1327Koen.1327 Member ✭✭✭

    soulbeast is hot garbage right now, competing with ele as worst class (although best builds have different roles)
    sic em ranger outclassed by many rotational specs, boon beast outclassed by about everything right now as sidenoder

    apparently sic em ranger shines in lower rank matches, imo they might as well trash the whole build. Pressing 2 buttons with eyes closed for 40% dmg increase with easy burst from far is pretty lame tbh.

    btw 2 soulbeasts in NA mat final lost horribly

  • bOTEB.1573bOTEB.1573 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Koen.1327 said:

    btw 2 soulbeasts in NA mat final lost horribly

    Of course they will lose, the Soulbeast is not viable and cant compete with the viable builds up there - it is insane they went that far. However, the players were good.

    Wishlist:
    Everything that kills me should be nerfed
    Remove all time gates - I play more than some people yet I receive the same rewards per day/week (PvP/WvW tickets etc)
    ANET developments/events and everything else should be in a schedule with the time I play

  • Zexanima.7851Zexanima.7851 Member ✭✭✭

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:
    I'd say just remove the damage buff from Sic 'em or just remove the skill all together. It's a waste of a slot honestly. Then half the duration of the boons on FR. Then change Moa Stance's to only grant might, fury, and swiftness while the boon duration increase is only 33%. This would still allow for a good burst of boons stacking but a lot less duration and not as many defensive boons.

    Oh ok yea how about we delete thief from the game as well and remove adrenaline from warriors while we're at it lmao

    None of these skills/traits are even your most powerful tools. Sic 'em and boon stacking is not what ranger is about. I run melee core ranger, no Sic 'em, and easily roll over Soulbeasts that run these builds, though boonbeast takes a while to take down. My point is Sic 'em is a gimmick and any ranger who knows what he's about wouldn't bother wasting a slot on it. Boonbeast is way to facetanky. Any profession/build that can take heavy pressure and apply heavy pressure at the same time is not good for gameplay. Druid should be our bunker/sidenoder/team support spec and soulbeast more of a duelist/roaming spec but instead soulbeast is pretty much just superior to core and druid in every way except team support.

    No longer playing the game due to PvP being abandon.

  • bigo.9037bigo.9037 Member ✭✭✭

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:
    I'd say just remove the damage buff from Sic 'em or just remove the skill all together. It's a waste of a slot honestly. Then half the duration of the boons on FR. Then change Moa Stance's to only grant might, fury, and swiftness while the boon duration increase is only 33%. This would still allow for a good burst of boons stacking but a lot less duration and not as many defensive boons.

    Oh ok yea how about we delete thief from the game as well and remove adrenaline from warriors while we're at it lmao

    None of these skills/traits are even your most powerful tools. Sic 'em and boon stacking is not what ranger is about. I run melee core ranger, no Sic 'em, and easily roll over Soulbeasts that run these builds, though boonbeast takes a while to take down. My point is Sic 'em is a gimmick and any ranger who knows what he's about wouldn't bother wasting a slot on it. Boonbeast is way to facetanky. Any profession/build that can take heavy pressure and apply heavy pressure at the same time is not good for gameplay. Druid should be our bunker/sidenoder/team support spec and soulbeast more of a duelist/roaming spec but instead soulbeast is pretty much just superior to core and druid in every way except team support.

    I both agree and disagree. I don't think sicem is waste of a slot. Unless you fight something that has too much CC and you need an additional stunbreaker.. well that is if you run slb and not core anyway. But yea core is basically on the same level as slb roamer/+1 spec but not as strong as boonbeast in spvp at least.

  • Zexanima.7851Zexanima.7851 Member ✭✭✭

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:
    I'd say just remove the damage buff from Sic 'em or just remove the skill all together. It's a waste of a slot honestly. Then half the duration of the boons on FR. Then change Moa Stance's to only grant might, fury, and swiftness while the boon duration increase is only 33%. This would still allow for a good burst of boons stacking but a lot less duration and not as many defensive boons.

    Oh ok yea how about we delete thief from the game as well and remove adrenaline from warriors while we're at it lmao

    None of these skills/traits are even your most powerful tools. Sic 'em and boon stacking is not what ranger is about. I run melee core ranger, no Sic 'em, and easily roll over Soulbeasts that run these builds, though boonbeast takes a while to take down. My point is Sic 'em is a gimmick and any ranger who knows what he's about wouldn't bother wasting a slot on it. Boonbeast is way to facetanky. Any profession/build that can take heavy pressure and apply heavy pressure at the same time is not good for gameplay. Druid should be our bunker/sidenoder/team support spec and soulbeast more of a duelist/roaming spec but instead soulbeast is pretty much just superior to core and druid in every way except team support.

    I both agree and disagree. I don't think sicem is waste of a slot. Unless you fight something that has too much CC and you need an additional stunbreaker.. well that is if you run slb and not core anyway. But yea core is basically on the same level as slb roamer/+1 spec but not as strong as boonbeast in spvp at least.

    Yeah, sic 'em isn't completely useless. If I did take it, it would be to counter something stealth heavy and not particularly for the damage buff. With the stupid amounts of hard CC that is just tossed around now days I find a stun break to be worth a lot more. Not dying is your number one priority after all. I end up playing my ranger kind of similar to S/D thief without the teleports. Just out sustain my opponent while my pet chips away at them, waiting for the opportune time to stealth maul them.

    I guess the point I'm getting at is that slb has to rely on some pretty gimmicky setups in those builds. If you survive their initial onslaught they have few tools other than kiting to sustain afterwards. There are a good handful of e-specs that have gimmicks like this and it looks like Anet knows this and is working to correct it by reworking things with more tradeoffs.

    No longer playing the game due to PvP being abandon.

  • bOTEB.1573bOTEB.1573 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @kiritsugu emeya.3962 said:
    facts:
    1) quotes by Twilight Tempest.7584 the guy who made the post "Just make condi-mirage viable (not OP) and rev is fine. No nerf needed"
    mirage is viable and it actually counters slb
    2) another quote "I hear a SLB just won in the last mAT. So I guess there goes that argument."
    no sicem soulbeast has ever come close to winning an mat. guess why? because sicem soulbeast doesnt fit in meta comps, it was only flandre on eu and he wasnt running sicem, but boonbeast before the nerf.
    3) another quote "At this rate mirage will be deleted before I even come close to gitting gud with it. :'( I've always avoided meta builds in order to not be too annoying with my mes"
    maybe stop "always" avoiding meta builds
    4) there are literally only 4-5 soulbeasts who run "sicem" in top 200 in na
    for eu there is like 1 druid and 1 soulbeast in top 50 not sure about 200
    5)I don't care if Soulbeast is not the most viable in the top 10% when it's over performing in the remaining 90%
    DID U JUST SAY over performing in the remaining 90% and used idc in the same sentence
    6)war/weaver/mirage all counter sicem soulbeast
    7) anet looks at how high the win ratio is for a spec inorder to nerf it or not, and incase of ranger its low
    8)hight tier players dont give a kitten about sicem, because its a meme
    9) apparently low tier players care
    "me new to game, me hate this skill, class, me go to forums QQ" :(
    done

    Oh well, we have been telling him these things in the last weeks/days but he just "doesn't care" nor accept these facts.
    The soulbeast should have some buffs and tweaks here and there but the overall performance of this espec should be increased.
    I don't know why he doesn't want to understand the situation.

    Wishlist:
    Everything that kills me should be nerfed
    Remove all time gates - I play more than some people yet I receive the same rewards per day/week (PvP/WvW tickets etc)
    ANET developments/events and everything else should be in a schedule with the time I play

  • @bOTEB.1573 said:
    Hey, I understand you - part of your reason for starting a separate SlB thread is to see if some people can collectively generate enough noise to get something done.
    Well, the noise also brings people that don't agree with you and you have to accept it.

    Where do you see that I'm against people disagreeing? Having a debate is not the same as being obstinate. No more than you debating with people in your thread.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @kiritsugu emeya.3962 said:
    facts:
    1) quotes by Twilight Tempest.7584 the guy who made the post "Just make condi-mirage viable (not OP) and rev is fine. No nerf needed"
    mirage is viable and it actually counters slb
    2) another quote "I hear a SLB just won in the last mAT. So I guess there goes that argument."
    no sicem soulbeast has ever come close to winning an mat. guess why? because sicem soulbeast doesnt fit in meta comps, it was only flandre on eu and he wasnt running sicem, but boonbeast before the nerf.
    3) another quote "At this rate mirage will be deleted before I even come close to gitting gud with it. :'( I've always avoided meta builds in order to not be too annoying with my mes"
    maybe stop "always" avoiding meta builds
    4) there are literally only 4-5 soulbeasts who run "sicem" in top 200 in na
    for eu there is like 1 druid and 1 soulbeast in top 50 not sure about 200
    5)I don't care if Soulbeast is not the most viable in the top 10% when it's over performing in the remaining 90%
    DID U JUST SAY over performing in the remaining 90% and used idc in the same sentence
    6)war/weaver/mirage all counter sicem soulbeast
    7) anet looks at how high the win ratio is for a spec inorder to nerf it or not, and incase of ranger its low
    8)hight tier players dont give a kitten about sicem, because its a meme
    9) apparently low tier players care
    "me new to game, me hate this skill, class, me go to forums QQ" :(
    done

    Oh well, we have been telling him these things in the last weeks/days but he just "doesn't care" nor accept these facts.
    The soulbeast should have some buffs and tweaks here and there but the overall performance of this espec should be increased.
    I don't know why he doesn't want to understand the situation.

    Lmao cuz that's not the situation? Boonbeast is still a great and strong build. If u build slb for a cheese broken OP one trick burst of course the build nor the one broken skill in question wont carry u against high skilled players. Doesnt mean the skill sic em isn't broken and too high of a dps modifier. Sic em is fine on pet but needs a 50% nerf when merged. 20% dps increase with movement and reveal is more than fine. Pets need buff when using druid and better ai pathing that's it. Of all ranger specs druid needs the love, so much wasted potential on a great theme.

  • Twilight Tempest.7584Twilight Tempest.7584 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 7, 2019

    @kiritsugu emeya.3962 said:
    facts:
    1) quotes by Twilight Tempest.7584 the guy who made the post "Just make condi-mirage viable (not OP) and rev is fine. No nerf needed"
    mirage is viable and it actually counters slb

    When your spec (SLB) is supposedly underrepresented it's weak and needs buffs. But when another is definitely underrepresented (condi-mirage), it's just fine. Okay.

    2) another quote "I hear a SLB just won in the last mAT. So I guess there goes that argument."
    no sicem soulbeast has ever come close to winning an mat. guess why? because sicem soulbeast doesnt fit in meta comps, it was only flandre on eu and he wasnt running sicem, but boonbeast before the nerf.

    So two Sic 'Ems in recent NA finals aren't even "close to winning an mat"? Okay. By the way, how many mirages have been in MATs lately?

    Never mind that the tired argument that "my spec isn't even in the top ___ or useful in meta comps" does not mean "my spec is perfectly fine, not OP in any way, and doesn't need nerfs, but in fact buffs."

    If that were the standard for whether something is broken or needs reworks, then mirage never would have been touched, based on its LB and MAT representation (lack thereof). I'm not saying Mirage didn't need nerfs, but that isn't because it was dominating the top of the LB/MATs (it wasn't).

    3) another quote "At this rate mirage will be deleted before I even come close to gitting gud with it. :'( I've always avoided meta builds in order to not be too annoying with my mes"
    maybe stop "always" avoiding meta builds

    Congrats. You dug all the way back to an early post of mine when I was just starting to play some PvP at a time condi-Mirage was at the height of forum QQ and hate, in the middle of a prolonged nerf-wave (which may still be ongoing).

    EDIT: Really, I pity the number of times you had to click "Next" on my comment history to get that far back in your search for damning posts of mine. And if this is the best you could come up with, well, guess that speaks for itself. :smile:

    Who says I haven't resorted to meta builds by now? Assume much? Not that there is a single "meta" mesmer build at the moment. Unlike rangers which have at least three meta SLB builds.

    4) there are literally only 4-5 soulbeasts who run "sicem" in top 200 in na
    for eu there is like 1 druid and 1 soulbeast in top 50 not sure about 200

    See #2 above, and #5 below for what I think of LB/MAT representation as being all there is to balance.

    5)another pathetic quote "I don't care if Soulbeast is not the most viable in the top 10% when it's over performing in the remaining 90%"
    DID U JUST SAY over performing in the remaining 90% and used idc in the same sentence

    I did. Not sure what you're saying. Be more clear when you're trying to denigrate me next time.

    6)war/weaver/mirage all counter sicem soulbeast

    That's nice. Thief, Scrapper, and Protection Holo all hard counter condi-mirage. Several others stall it out. What's your point?

    7) anet looks at how high the win ratio is for a spec inorder to nerf it or not, and incase of ranger its low

    If this were 100% all there is to it, then I repeat: Mesmer and its specs would never have been touched. But feel free to think that what applies to others doesn't apply to your spec in the same situation.

    8)hight tier players dont give a kitten about sicem, because its a meme

    Cool story bro.

    9) apparently low tier players care

    Not just low tier.

    "me new to game, me hate this skill, class, me go to forums QQ" :(
    done

    Yes, dismiss anything you don't like as pleb nonsense/silver struggles. Come back later when you get nerfed. ;) Good day.


    EDIT: I don't usually bother looking up someone's post history, but I took a quick look and it all makes sense now. You don't want your SLB roaming vids to die. :joy:

  • kiritsugu emeya.3962kiritsugu emeya.3962 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 7, 2019

    I'll reply when ur done editing 😂 ur so clueless jeesus

    [HCM] -jade quarry | Top 20 pvp
    youtube channel: https://goo.gl/LCoZL8

  • @kiritsugu emeya.3962 said:
    I'll reply when ur done editing 😂 ur so clueless jeesus

    Oh hey you responded! Sweet.

    Edit was an hour ago if you know how to check timestamps, so not sure why you think I'm still editing.

    Tell me how clueless I am oh mighty Youtuber. :smile:

  • bOTEB.1573bOTEB.1573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 7, 2019

    The point is that OP like the mesmer a lot, it got nerfed and now he want to nerf everything else in order to bring his favorite profession, more or less, to its previous state. Part of his arguments are: "it's ok for slb but its not ok for mesmer?", "if mesmer got nerf hammered, everything else should too" etc. etc
    Sorry, I agree with a guy from the previous posts:
    "Someone has been playing an over powered Condi Mesmer and now seeking revenge. Over hyped unnecessary nerf calls."

    Wishlist:
    Everything that kills me should be nerfed
    Remove all time gates - I play more than some people yet I receive the same rewards per day/week (PvP/WvW tickets etc)
    ANET developments/events and everything else should be in a schedule with the time I play

  • @bOTEB.1573 said:
    The point is that OP like the mesmer a lot, it got nerfed and now he want to nerf everything else in order to bring his favorite profession, more or less, to its previous state. Part of his arguments are: "it's ok for slb but its not ok for mesmer?", "if mesmer got nerf hammered, everything else should too" etc. etc
    Sorry, I agree with a guy from the previous posts:
    "Someone has been playing an over powered Condi Mesmer and now seeking revenge. Over hyped unnecessary nerf calls."

    If you know anything about the person who wrote that, you'd know they're practically a walking meme who says "nerf mesmer" in 99% of their posts to this day, and still thinks mesmer needs more nerfs even after receiving probably the most nerfs of anything in the game, or close to it. That's who you agree with. :joy:

    And being you, you probably conveniently ignored my response which completely discredited his accusation.

    Also, why dig up a weeks' old post that has nothing to do with anything, but ignore the question I asked you just above? What's the matter? Good at throwing accusations but not so good at backing them up? ;)

    You know you SLB mains are getting desperate when you have to comb for and cherry pick old posts to suit your narrative rather than discussing the topic at hand. The more you misfire at me, the more foolish you look. Smells like people desperately trying to defend their soon to be nerfed class. But by all means keep this thread at the top of the discussion board. No objections here. :smile:

  • bOTEB.1573bOTEB.1573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 7, 2019

    Just scroll up and look at your posts - you are the one who started linking older posts. And by the way a lot of people still think that mesmer should be further nerfed... again it is not only me - look at the poll thread.
    However, I agree with you that the thread should stay on top - the more you post, the more it looks like "Over hyped unnecessary nerf calls."
    Feel free to name the black color "white" as much as you want ;)

    Wishlist:
    Everything that kills me should be nerfed
    Remove all time gates - I play more than some people yet I receive the same rewards per day/week (PvP/WvW tickets etc)
    ANET developments/events and everything else should be in a schedule with the time I play

  • @bOTEB.1573 said:

    Just scroll up and look at your posts - you are the one who started linking older posts.

    I cite relevant posts for reference or to avoid repetition. You and another do it in a poor attempt to attack and discredit me. That's the difference.

    And by the way a lot of people still think that mesmer should be further nerfed... again it is not only me - look at the poll thread.

    Indeed, some people surely will never be satisfied unless mesmer is deleted from the game. But I ask you: Which spec is actually leading the poll, and by a lot? ;)

  • bOTEB.1573bOTEB.1573 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    Just scroll up and look at your posts - you are the one who started linking older posts.

    I cite relevant posts for reference or to avoid repetition. You and another do it in a poor attempt to attack and discredit me. That's the difference.

    And by the way a lot of people still think that mesmer should be further nerfed... again it is not only me - look at the poll thread.

    Indeed, some people surely will never be satisfied unless mesmer is deleted from the game. But I ask you: Which spec is actually leading the poll, and by a lot? ;)

    Indeed, even more people won't be satisfied (like you) unless the ranger is deleted from the game.
    Anyway, ANET will make balance change mostly based on the profession/spec performance in PvP, not based on your or my opinion.
    You can be 200% sure that the performance of the SLB in PvP is poor... :(
    Sorry bro - face the reality and move on.

    Wishlist:
    Everything that kills me should be nerfed
    Remove all time gates - I play more than some people yet I receive the same rewards per day/week (PvP/WvW tickets etc)
    ANET developments/events and everything else should be in a schedule with the time I play

  • @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    Just scroll up and look at your posts - you are the one who started linking older posts.

    I cite relevant posts for reference or to avoid repetition. You and another do it in a poor attempt to attack and discredit me. That's the difference.

    And by the way a lot of people still think that mesmer should be further nerfed... again it is not only me - look at the poll thread.

    Indeed, some people surely will never be satisfied unless mesmer is deleted from the game. But I ask you: Which spec is actually leading the poll, and by a lot? ;)

    Indeed, even more people won't be satisfied (like you) unless the ranger is deleted from the game.

    ^Proof-positive you didn't read the OP or any of my follow ups in this thread.

    Sorry bro - face the reality and move on.

    You as well. :)

  • bOTEB.1573bOTEB.1573 Member ✭✭✭✭

    You should probably make a thread "How to deal with SLB" or "How to win against SLB" where a lot of people will try to help you and you will have a lot more success. However, I am pretty sure you don't want an advice (you believe SLB is unbeatable because you have tried "everything" without success) - you want straight nerf just to feel better, which is sad, really. If I was a dev, I wouldn't dumb down the game for you.
    Just my 2 cents ;)

    Wishlist:
    Everything that kills me should be nerfed
    Remove all time gates - I play more than some people yet I receive the same rewards per day/week (PvP/WvW tickets etc)
    ANET developments/events and everything else should be in a schedule with the time I play

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    Just scroll up and look at your posts - you are the one who started linking older posts.

    I cite relevant posts for reference or to avoid repetition. You and another do it in a poor attempt to attack and discredit me. That's the difference.

    And by the way a lot of people still think that mesmer should be further nerfed... again it is not only me - look at the poll thread.

    Indeed, some people surely will never be satisfied unless mesmer is deleted from the game. But I ask you: Which spec is actually leading the poll, and by a lot? ;)

    Indeed, even more people won't be satisfied (like you) unless the MESMER is deleted from the game.

    ftfy

    Anyway, ANET will make balance change mostly NOT based on the profession/spec performance in PvP, based on your or my opinion.

    another fix

    you want straight nerf just to feel better, which is sad, really. If I was a dev, I wouldn't dumb down the game for you.

    Thats what everyone wanted, nerf memser so they can facesmash against keyboard and win, which is happened. Why soulbeast should escape the same fate?

    Sorry bro - face the reality and move on.

    Do that

  • bOTEB.1573bOTEB.1573 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    you want straight nerf just to feel better, which is sad, really. If I was a dev, I wouldn't dumb down the game for you.

    Thats what everyone wanted, nerf memser so they can facesmash against keyboard and win, which is happened. Why soulbeast should escape the same fate?

    Because Soulbeast is not viable at higher tiers, mesmer was and still is viable.
    That is why Soulbeast should not only escape the same fate but also receive buffs.

    Wishlist:
    Everything that kills me should be nerfed
    Remove all time gates - I play more than some people yet I receive the same rewards per day/week (PvP/WvW tickets etc)
    ANET developments/events and everything else should be in a schedule with the time I play

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 7, 2019

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    you want straight nerf just to feel better, which is sad, really. If I was a dev, I wouldn't dumb down the game for you.

    Thats what everyone wanted, nerf memser so they can facesmash against keyboard and win, which is happened. Why soulbeast should escape the same fate?

    Because Soulbeast is not viable at higher tiers, mesmer was and still is viable.
    That is why Soulbeast should not only escape the same fate but also receive buffs.

    High tiers? Do you mean boonbeast/sic em lb that flashing in monthly AT's ? Ignore facts as much as you like but dont be surprised when ranger get deserved nerfs :)
    Also they dont balance only around "high tiers" only, they nerfed DE despite it not being represented at high tiers,mesmer when their representation significantly dropped and power mesmer as well never been there. Mesmer viable - lol

  • bOTEB.1573bOTEB.1573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 7, 2019

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    you want straight nerf just to feel better, which is sad, really. If I was a dev, I wouldn't dumb down the game for you.

    Thats what everyone wanted, nerf memser so they can facesmash against keyboard and win, which is happened. Why soulbeast should escape the same fate?

    Because Soulbeast is not viable at higher tiers, mesmer was and still is viable.
    That is why Soulbeast should not only escape the same fate but also receive buffs.

    High tiers? Do you mean boonbeast/sic em lb that flashing in monthly AT's ? Ignore facts as much as you like but dont be surprised when ranger get deserved nerfs :)

    Yeah I mean the 4-5 SLBs (in total) that are in top 200 NA and the 2 that lost horribly at the mat final, where the 2 slbs lost them the game:)
    We can count the top 200 meta builds 1 by 1, together, if you want and compare them with the 4-5 SLBs... Will be fun to see how "many" people play this "OP" build at higher tiers, and post the data here ;)
    Let me know.

    Wishlist:
    Everything that kills me should be nerfed
    Remove all time gates - I play more than some people yet I receive the same rewards per day/week (PvP/WvW tickets etc)
    ANET developments/events and everything else should be in a schedule with the time I play

  • TorQ.7041TorQ.7041 Member ✭✭✭

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:
    So soulbeast mains don't think the class is overtuned? Who thinks it is overtuned?

    Those who have not yet deciphered and put to use the secret knowledge hidden in this meme.

    If you're so far out in the middle of no where you can't get behind some kind of geometry then you've done something wrong. LoS isn't just a "avoid ranger lb 2" thing, it's a sustain thing. Got to keep your positioning in mind at all times. To keep in the sprit of the memes, I probably avoid most of the damage I would take by doing this

    Travelling open areas between capture points?
    Already engaged on a capture point and SLB lb's from off screen out of stealth? (Don't say "but DE" because that had an obvious tell and was easily punished for failing.)

    Rapid Fire cast is often sped up by Quickness too.

    Using LoS is an important tactic, but isn't always possible.

    That's where skill at reading the map comes in. U are at mid. U see on mini map no ranger at far no ranger at home. He's not on respawn.. where else can he can.

    Or alternatively ranger is dead on respawn. Rest of team is busy. U know u lose to this ranger. Do u go far?

    Or u know u r even against this ranger. Do u position ur self to hit him first or do u go head on so he out ranges u?

    I means lots of scenerios.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 7, 2019

    THE ULTIMATE UNVEILING

    1. Every other game ever, that had ranged attacks in it, had ranged attacks that were dangerous. This is not unusual. What is unusual is that Guild Wars 2 experienced a complete disappearance of ranged attack play for too many years.
    2. GW2 in the beginning, had some dangerous ranged attacks from old school LB/GS Power Rangers, and even some Condi Shortbow. But it was nerfed and didn't last for very long. During the end of the core meta, Rangers disappeared almost entirely and I do mean entirely. During the end of core meta, there were no dangerous ranged attacks coming from any even semi-viable builds at all. The game had become close-range & mid-range bruisers, such as Cele-Rifle Engis, Cele D/D Eles, Burn Guards, ect ect.
    3. HoT meta was released, which even furthered the presence of a bunker meta. Literally the only ranged attacks that were in play were: Some Power Shattering if you consider it ranged, Limited Fresh Air play wasn't ever really viable and it was more mid-range anyway, Bad mid-range Grenadiers, Thief shortbows used for mobility, Bunker Druids with Longbows that had no damage, that were only using the Longbow for Decap pretty much, and then the superior ranged attacker the DH. Even the DH's True Shot and other LB attacks, were more of something to soften a player up before it pulled you into melee vs. trap & CC bursting. For the most part you could kite in the open vs. DH ranged and avoid any serious kill damage so long as you dodged the obvious tell of True Shot. The point being is that there was damage in the DH's ranged, but it was nothing like the original LB/GS Power Rangers in the times of Core Meta or what we have now in PoF meta. Ranged attacks were ridiculously kitten during the end of Core Meta & HoT Meta.
    4. The interesting thing here, and the most important point in this post, is that the HoT Bunker Meta went on for too loooooong. People had began to adapt their playstyles and ideal of "What GW2 should feel like" to the end of the Core Meta where there was no dangerous ranged, and the HoT Bunker Meta, where everyone had began to just walk directly into a node because everyone was a super tanky bruiser or bunker, humping their local Auramancer, and not even DH ranged was to be worried about at all. In fact, the DH WANTED to get into the team fight because that's where his serious kill potential was. So you have this HoT Meta going on where there is no advantageous reason to fight anywhere except on the node. In those days there was little reason to go off a node, unless it was to kite and survive, reset and come back. Every build was a team fighter then, save Theives & Power Mesmers for +ing, and Bunker Druid/Scrapper for side nodes. So the idea of "ranged attacks being very weak play in GW2" began to set in. The idea that "ranged attacks are just sort of supposed to be something to peck at a player, not really deal kill damage" set in. This expectation of how GW2 felt, shaped the way people played. So this meta results in players being able to almost entirely disregard ranged attackers. It also resulted in players completely overlooking and never learning about the importance of objects in maps, which were clearly designed with the original purpose to kite around, to create anti-LOS. Knowing LOS tactics at the end of the Core Meta and during the elongated HoT Meta, bode little to no importance at all. This effect was worsened by the fact that in GW2, melee goes through objects! So during this phase of Core/HoT Meta, where only bruiser/bunker play was active, learning about how to use objects for anti-LOS was almost completely disregarded by nearly 90% or greater of the player base. So the ideal sets in that "GW2 pvp is supposed to feel this certain way" because it DID feel that way, for waaaaaay too long, and aside from people saying they want new things, I've noticed that they really don't like large changes in how a game feels or plays, 5+ years in. In a way, I can't blame them for that.
    5. PoF is released with the reappearance of ranged attack play. Deadeyes are released along with Soulbeast, which brought back LB/GS threat. Everything about how conquest needs to be played changes. There is no more bumping chests against each other at mid without worrying about who's standing on the ledge with ranged attacks, and boy did that kitten off most of the player base on principle. But what principle are we talking about here that pissed them off? Are these ranged attacks really over powered as some claim, or are these players just not liking how it feels, because it doesn't feel like how the game used to always feel? Maybe these players are slow to adapt to the new conquest style, or maybe they are just reluctant to do so, and would rather see nerfs in place that would return a bruiser/bunker non-ranged meta only, because that is how the game is supposed to feel to them.

    All I know is that every good player I know, p1 p2 p3 w/e, are making statements in this forum, well explaining why these builds are easy to counter-play, and how to do it. They aren't lying, they aren't dEfeNdiNG-ThEiR-mAiN, they're being serious. And it doesn't require some god-tier pro gaming level skill to do it, it just requires letting go of these old ideals of how the game should be played. You've got to asks yourselves: "Is it really overpowered or am I doing something wrong?" "Am I just wanting the game to feel like the old metas again?"

    Hey, I'm not gonna tell you what's right or wrong. Just thought I'd throw this out there to think about. I just really want to point out again, that every other game ever, that ever had ranged attacks in it, had ranged attacks that were dangerous. Guild Wars 2 up until PoF has been a very weird exception. Why Should Guild Wars 2 be any different?

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