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Soulbeast Needs Some Genuine Nerf Bat Love in the Next Balance Update


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I generally refrain from calling for outright nerfs, but it is beyond time for Soulbeast to have its turn with the nerf bat like everyone else.

I don't care if we're talking Boonbeast, Sic 'Em Sniper, or anything in between. Just far too much sustain for its level of output--period. Or far too much damage for its level of sustain, take your pick. Either way, far too effective for how safe it is to play.

LOS iS yOuR fRiEnd

I don't care if LOS can counter Longbow. You don't always have access to LOS every time they start blasting you with heavily boosted Rapid Fire from somewhere off screen. Many builds are left with a chunk of their health gone, and a dodge blown before even engaging thanks to a SlB mashing a few keys from [Edit] 1500+ 1800+ range while you're running or fighting someone else.

SnIpEr iS a RoLe

I don't care if Sic 'Em Sniper can be compared to how Deadeye was. Death's Judgment was way more telegraphed on a build that was as glass as it gets, and look what happened to it.

It'S nOt EvEn UsEd aT ToP LeVeL/mAt

I don't care if Soulbeast is not the most viable in the top 10% when it's over performing in the remaining 90%.

Reality Check

Even as Soulbeast escapes balance update after balance update untouched, it gets indirectly buffed when potential counters like Mesmer have most of their Reflection deleted. As it stands, Soulbeast is one of only a couple specs that have not seen real, build-altering nerfs since creation.

Way too many stacking damage modifiers, excessive unblockable, and trait synergies resulting in a literal beast of an overtuned spec. I'm looking at you: Unstoppable Union, Sic 'Em, Strength of the Pack, coupled with Maul, Worldy Impact, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Fire, etc.

Way too much sustain via access to stealth, mobility, protection + heal on dodge, boon spam, and invuln, and way too much damage relative to that amount of sustain--on all viable builds. Way too safe to play by dealing huge damage at max range, and way too forgiving thanks to pets and passives. Even if the Soulbeast messes up, even if it's downed, their self-res is best-in-game thanks to their pets. Speaking of pets, there are zero consequences for their pets dying since they're instantly revived after being merged and unmerged. It's the ultimate low-risk, high-reward, no trade-offs spec.

[Edit] If Soulbeast doesn't get hit, and hit hard, in the next major balance update, they are apparently immune to change, and a big part of why inter-class balance is so broken. All I want is for SLB damage to be toned down as part of a universal reverse power-creeping. However that is best accomplished, I trust to the profession experts.

Suggestions That Have Been Made:

  • Reduce Sic 'Em damage modifier from 40% to 20% (or less) in Beast Mode, or even remove it completely. Others have suggested leaving damage but cutting range from 2,000 to 1,000 (or less) to tone down long range snipes and shift the boost towards melee. Regardless, I would suggest only changing its interaction in Beat Mode in order not to punish core Ranger.
  • Make Unstoppable Union's unblockable effect apply only to the next [certain number of] attacks instead of for the next 4 seconds.
  • Generally tone down SLB's best-in-game damage multiplier stacking which can reach 82%!
  • As a trade off with core Ranger (currently there are none), limit SLB to one pet.
  • Trevor Boyer.6524's suggestions emphasizing reductions to Unblockable, halving Sic 'Em range, and more even damage distribution.

Follow-Ups:

05/17/19: My less-ranty opinion here.06/02/19: Yummy combat log screen here.

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it's called 'being aware of your surroundings', if i know there's a pew pew soulbeast in the enemy team ill make sure i know where he is and i also make sure i have access to LoS if need be.I also dont see it 'overperforming' in '90%' of the game, most games have 1-2 soulbeasts and I barely ever see 3-4 in 1 game so what you're saying is just false.

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Nothing currently S tier is going to get nerfs. Ever. Period.

Just on an objective mathematical perspective, Spellbreaker, Holosmith, Scrapper, Rev and Soulbeast have been the absolute best builds in ranked. For three balance patches in a row. Period. Literally everyone in the top 10 are playing one of those builds. By my personal count and estimate, based on the players I know and what builds they play, literally 90% of the top 100 main those five builds. And yet not only are they not seeing nerfs, they keep seeing buffs.

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@mortrialus.3062 said:Nothing currently S tier is going to get nerfs. Ever. Period. The only thing that matters is how annoyed people are by thieves and mesmers and nerfing them until no one ever plays them again.

I admit, part of my reason for starting a separate SlB thread is to see if they can collectively generate enough noise to get something done. It certainly worked on mesmer. The double standards may be insurmountable though.

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@praqtos.9035 said:

@FyzE.3472 said:See you next time you get killed by a soulbeast or deadeye then ;-)Worthless troll comment as usual, keep it up /s@Twilight Tempest.7584LOS iS yOuR fRiEndI don't care if LOS can counter Longbow. You don't always have access to LOS every time they start blasting you with heavily boosted Rapid Fire from somewhere off screen. Many builds are left with a chunk of their health gone, and a dodge blown before even engaging thanks to a SlB mashing a few keys from 1500+ range while you're running or fighting someone else.Exactly that. You wont even have chance to LoS since they start with lb4 and by the moment you fly away you alrdy lost around 50% of your health to some rapid-fire-onewolfpack shenanigans (they dont even need to go hard for the damage as zerk amulet/full dps traitlines). Range of the first three skills are ~1900 on the first three skills, 4 is 1500. All that with being unblockable. Much fun and counterplay.Thats only what I wanted to add to OP :)

Oh so soulbeast is next on your complain list? Nice to know. See if that helps you.

There are tons of ways to win vs everything you and others complain about. I feel like the only thing left to do is just joke.

Because, let's face it, you and other complainers do not want an advice on how to win. You want the devs to dumb down the game for you. So you can feel better. Telling you right now: if that happens, you will complain about how boring and easy the game is. But sure. You can just continue trying to disregard the stuff that I say.

Also am I a revenant main now? You probably already seen that I have a post made on rev forums when you were checking my message history in search of a way to discredit my opinion, that so hurts to understand, that it is just so much easier to ignore and continue your own pursuit of balance-that-will-be-fun-the-first-couple-of-minutes.

And you are calling my comments useless. Oh the irony. Yeah like complaining is so helpful.

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@Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:Nothing currently S tier is going to get nerfs. Ever. Period. The only thing that matters is how annoyed people are by thieves and mesmers and nerfing them until no one ever plays them again.

I admit, part of my reason for starting a separate SlB thread is to see if they can collectively generate enough noise to get something done. It certainly worked on mesmer. The double standards may be insurmountable though.

Make just the right amount of noise so as not to burn the class into Oblivion... Good luck :'(

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@FyzE.3472 said:

@FyzE.3472 said:See you next time you get killed by a soulbeast or deadeye then ;-)Worthless troll comment as usual, keep it up /s@"Twilight Tempest.7584"LOS iS yOuR fRiEndI don't care if LOS can counter Longbow. You don't always have access to LOS every time they start blasting you with heavily boosted Rapid Fire from somewhere off screen. Many builds are left with a chunk of their health gone, and a dodge blown before even engaging thanks to a SlB mashing a few keys from 1500+ range while you're running or fighting someone else.Exactly that. You wont even have chance to LoS since they start with lb4 and by the moment you fly away you alrdy lost around 50% of your health to some rapid-fire-onewolfpack shenanigans (they dont even need to go hard for the damage as zerk amulet/full dps traitlines). Range of the first three skills are ~1900 on the first three skills, 4 is 1500. All that with being unblockable. Much fun and counterplay.Thats only what I wanted to add to OP :)

Oh so soulbeast is next on your complain list? Nice to know. See if that helps you.Every OP spec/skill is on the list kido.There are tons of ways to win vs everything you and others complain about. I feel like the only thing left to do is just joke.Because, let's face it, you and other complainers do not want an advice on how to win. You want the devs to dumb down the game for you. So you can feel better. Telling you right now: if that happens, you will complain about how boring and easy the game is. But sure. You can just continue trying to disregard the stuff that I say.The same way YOU and others complain about most things on other classes you suck against, lots of ways to overcome but you prefer to endlessly QQ until it get smitersbooned and its worked . Trevor inspired me with his hypocrisy, lets roll now.IF something being more balanced and fair for the players means boring to you... I cant help it dude.Also am I a revenant main now? You probably already seen that I have a post made on rev forums when you were checking my message history in search of a way to discredit my opinion, that so hurts to understand, that it is just so much easier to ignore and continue your own pursuit of balance-that-will-be-fun-the-first-couple-of-minutes.I didnt watch as I dont care, all you do is whiteknight broken BS, let it be, same overused stupid comments "dodge,block,invul, pack endless reflects. find LoS where there is nowhere to LoS despite dying in 1 second or 1-2 hits" works only for anything they main,not something they hate. Everyone harrassed poor incissor for the same and now use exact same excuses to defend their precious OP classes, he could be biased but he wasnt stupid at all.And you are calling my comments useless. Oh the irony. Yeah like complaining is so helpful.Complaining about busted things is a sin ! As Twillight mentioned massive outcry about the mesmer helped to gut it. So it is.I play revenant myself now and its still broken despite the nerf and few other TOP revenants confirm that. I dare you ,disprove info that I posted about its range at least ;)You can just continue trying to disregard the stuff that I say.So much this dude...so much....
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@BadMed.3846 said:Someone has been playing an over powered Condi Mesmer and now seeking revenge. Over hyped unnecessary nerf calls.

This is cute coming from you. ;)

First off, I didn't play mes competitively until after it was gutted. I've only known the obliterated version.

Second, didn't you say you main Ranger, not Soulbeast?

@Crystal Paladin.3871 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:Nothing currently S tier is going to get nerfs. Ever. Period. The only thing that matters is how annoyed people are by thieves and mesmers and nerfing them until no one ever plays them again.

I admit, part of my reason for starting a separate SlB thread is to see if they can collectively generate enough noise to get something done. It certainly worked on mesmer. The double standards may be insurmountable though.

Make just the right amount of noise so as not to burn the class into Oblivion... Good luck :'(

For the record, I don't want Soulbeast--or anything--burned into oblivion. Unlike some, I just want remaining PoF and other outliers reigned in with those who've already been toned down.

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I generally refrain from calling for outright nerfs, but it is beyond time for PP Thief to have its turn with the nerf bat like everyone else.

I don't care if we're talking PP Deadeye, PP Core, or anything in between. Just far too much sustain for its level of output--period. Or far too much damage for its level of sustain, take your pick. Either way, far too effective for how safe it is to play.

LOS iS yOuR fRiEnd

I don't care if LOS can counter pistol. You don't always have access to LOS every time they start blasting you with heavily boosted Unload from somewhere off screen. Many builds are left with a chunk of their health gone, and a dodge blown before even engaging thanks to a Thief mashing one key from 900+ range while you're running or fighting someone else.

SnIpEr iS a RoLe

I don't care if PP Thief can be compared to how Deadeye was. Death's Judgment was way more telegraphed on a build that was as glass as it gets, and look what happened to it.

It'S nOt EvEn UsEd aT ToP LeVeL/mAt

I don't care if PP Thief is not the most viable in the top 10% when it's over performing in the remaining 90%.

Reality Check

Even as PeePee Thief escapes balance update after balance update untouched, it gets indirectly buffed when potential counters like Mesmer have most of their Reflection deleted. As it stands, PP Deadeye is one of only a couple specs that have not seen real, build-altering nerfs since creation.

Way too many stacking damage modifiers, excessive might stacking, and trait synergies resulting in a literal beast of an overtuned spec. I'm looking at you: Pistol 3.

Way too much sustain via access to stealth, mobility, boon spam, and invuln, and way too much damage relative to that amount of sustain--on all viable builds. Way too safe to play by dealing huge damage at max range, and way too forgiving thanks to stealth and passives. Even if the PP Thief messes up, even if it's downed, their stomp immunity is best-in-game thanks to stealth. Speaking of stealth, there are zero consequences for their messing up since u are instantly stealthed after using the elite skill. It's the ultimate low-risk, high-reward, no trade-offs spec.

If PeePee Thief doesn't get hit, and hit hard, in the next major balance update, they are apparently immune to change, and a big part of why inter-class balance is so broken.

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@beatthedown.2651 said:I generally refrain from calling for outright nerfs, but it is beyond time for PP Thief to have its turn with the nerf bat like everyone else.

I don't care if we're talking PP Deadeye, PP Core, or anything in between. Just far too much sustain for its level of output--period. Or far too much damage for its level of sustain, take your pick. Either way, far too effective for how safe it is to play.

LOS iS yOuR fRiEnd

I don't care if LOS can counter pistol. You don't always have access to LOS every time they start blasting you with heavily boosted Unload from somewhere off screen. Many builds are left with a chunk of their health gone, and a dodge blown before even engaging thanks to a Thief mashing one key from 900+ range while you're running or fighting someone else.

SnIpEr iS a RoLe

I don't care if PP Thief can be compared to how Deadeye was. Death's Judgment was way more telegraphed on a build that was as glass as it gets, and look what happened to it.

It'S nOt EvEn UsEd aT ToP LeVeL/mAt

I don't care if PP Thief is not the most viable in the top 10% when it's over performing in the remaining 90%.

Reality Check

Even as PeePee Thief escapes balance update after balance update untouched, it gets indirectly buffed when potential counters like Mesmer have most of their Reflection deleted. As it stands, PP Deadeye is one of only a couple specs that have not seen real, build-altering nerfs since creation.

Way too many stacking damage modifiers, excessive might stacking, and trait synergies resulting in a literal beast of an overtuned spec. I'm looking at you: Pistol 3.

Way too much sustain via access to stealth, mobility, boon spam, and invuln, and way too much damage relative to that amount of sustain--on all viable builds. Way too safe to play by dealing huge damage at max range, and way too forgiving thanks to stealth and passives. Even if the PP Thief messes up, even if it's downed, their stomp immunity is best-in-game thanks to stealth. Speaking of stealth, there are zero consequences for their messing up since u are instantly stealthed after using the elite skill. It's the ultimate low-risk, high-reward, no trade-offs spec.

If PeePee Thief doesn't get hit, and hit hard, in the next major balance update, they are apparently immune to change, and a big part of why inter-class balance is so broken.

Ummm.. no?

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@"praqtos.9035" said:Some text

Yeah, well, I multi-class that's why I ask how to play X vs Y.Also that helps me to see the bigger picture, not just complain about stuff I have trouble with.I admit, I was one of the people who was complaining about mirage. But then I thought "Hey, this does not help me at all! Let me try and actually listen to the advice other mirages give on how to outplay one." You know what? Worked like a charm! I even asked a couple of people to duel me so I can practice. Never got trouble with mirage ever since (even before it was gutted).

The greatest thing is: after all of that when I give advice on how to play vs something, people are just too spiteful to listen. Calling it "useless comments" lol. Well, if you did not quote me I would be just playing the game the way it is. And just joke on forums because no one here needs advice, they are here to vent. So that's what I do now. Just joke around, having a good time and a few laughs here and there. Just because people won't listen even if you say how to deal with certain builds. They will more likely just start hating on you and saying that your comments are useless without even trying to take at least one advice from other people.

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@FyzE.3472 said:The greatest thing is: after all of that when I give advice on how to play vs something, people are just too spiteful to listen. Calling it "useless comments" lol.You know what is useless/spiteful comment ?

@FyzE.3472 said:See you next time you get killed by a soulbeast or deadeye then ;-)Well, if you did not quote me I would be just playing the game the way it is. And just joke on forums because no one here needs advice, they are here to vent. So that's what I do now. Just joke around, having a good time and a few laughs here and there. Just because people won't listen even if you say how to deal with certain builds. They will more likely just start hating on you and saying that your comments are useless without even trying to take at least one advice from other people.You didnt help anyone . As I said , this stupid comments like JUST DODGE arent advice. Such builds like sic em lack counter play and its highly unfun to play against. You burn both evades for lb4/rapid fire if you notice it in time, you have no time to LoS it as it goes with quickness fast. You cant block it , so next take down is going to be lethal for you if you didnt die to over 30k damage from rapid fire coupled with OWP. Sic em is and unstoppable union is dumb and must be heavily nerfed.

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@"praqtos.9035" said:"answer"If you actually read my comment, it said "now I'm here to have fun, and have a few laughs here and there" or something. Try and read what I typed, please. And, as always, ignore the most important part. Guess you're just cool like that.

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@"praqtos.9035" said:You didnt help anyone . As I said , this stupid comments like JUST DODGE arent advice. Such builds like sic em lack counter play and its highly unfun to play against. You burn both evades for lb4/rapid fire if you notice it in time, you have no time to LoS it as it goes with quickness fast. You cant block it , so next take down is going to be lethal for you if you didnt die to over 30k damage from rapid fire coupled with OWP. Sic em is and unstoppable union is dumb and must be heavily nerfed.

OK but serious talk for a second here. Did you just said "if you burn your dodge on lb4 -> lb2, you will then get lb4d -> lb2d"?

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Longbow won't be viable without unstoppable union. At least without the unstoppable part. Do that, force rangers to run signet of the hunt for 6 seconds of unblockable with a 40 second cooldown. Scrapper will basically render Soulbeast useless in teamfights. Sounds like you just want longbow removed. From a Ranger.

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@"beatthedown.2651" said:I generally refrain from calling for outright nerfs, but it is beyond time for PP Thief to have its turn with the nerf bat like everyone else.

I don't care if we're talking PP Deadeye, PP Core, or anything in between. Just far too much sustain for its level of output--period. Or far too much damage for its level of sustain, take your pick. Either way, far too effective for how safe it is to play.

LOS iS yOuR fRiEnd

I don't care if LOS can counter pistol. You don't always have access to LOS every time they start blasting you with heavily boosted Unload from somewhere off screen. Many builds are left with a chunk of their health gone, and a dodge blown before even engaging thanks to a Thief mashing one key from 900+ range while you're running or fighting someone else.

SnIpEr iS a RoLe

I don't care if PP Thief can be compared to how Deadeye was. Death's Judgment was way more telegraphed on a build that was as glass as it gets, and look what happened to it.

It'S nOt EvEn UsEd aT ToP LeVeL/mAt

I don't care if PP Thief is not the most viable in the top 10% when it's over performing in the remaining 90%.

Reality Check

Even as PeePee Thief escapes balance update after balance update untouched, it gets indirectly buffed when potential counters like Mesmer have most of their Reflection deleted. As it stands, PP Deadeye is one of only a couple specs that have not seen real, build-altering nerfs since creation.

Way too many stacking damage modifiers, excessive might stacking, and trait synergies resulting in a literal beast of an overtuned spec. I'm looking at you: Pistol 3.

Way too much sustain via access to stealth, mobility, boon spam, and invuln, and way too much damage relative to that amount of sustain--on all viable builds. Way too safe to play by dealing huge damage at max range, and way too forgiving thanks to stealth and passives. Even if the PP Thief messes up, even if it's downed, their stomp immunity is best-in-game thanks to stealth. Speaking of stealth, there are zero consequences for their messing up since u are instantly stealthed after using the elite skill. It's the ultimate low-risk, high-reward, no trade-offs spec.

If PeePee Thief doesn't get hit, and hit hard, in the next major balance update, they are apparently immune to change, and a big part of why inter-class balance is so broken.

Even if this is sarcasm P/P thief has been nerfed in PvP and WvW. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unload

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@mortrialus.3062 said:Nothing currently S tier is going to get nerfs. Ever. Period.

Just on an objective mathematical perspective, Spellbreaker, Holosmith, Scrapper, Rev and Soulbeast have been the absolute best builds in ranked. For three balance patches in a row. Period. Literally everyone in the top 10 are playing one of those builds. By my personal count and estimate, based on the players I know and what builds they play, literally 90% of the top 100 main those five builds. And yet not only are they not seeing nerfs, they keep seeing buffs.

I don't think it's fair to assume that because good players main a certain class that it must be because the class is overperforming. A lot of it is just personal preference as I myself would never be able to play Soulbeast or Holosmith because I just don't like the way they work. However there will always be top classes in every game. I honestly can't think of a game where all classes are as good as the other. This is mainly because in gw2 spvp we have one fucking competitive gamemode. Some classes just work better for the structure conquest has to offer. I want to bet that if there would be more gamemodes like pure TDM or King of the Hill that some other classes that don't work in conquest would become more viable.

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Sic Em Soulbeast is definitely not overperforming in high ranks or ATs. It is really punishing against bad players with no awareness, though, so I can understand why this forum is filled with Soulbeast complaint threads.

As for Boonbeast, it's already been nerfed hard and has fallen out of the meta. It's barely even better than Druid at this point.

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@kin korn karn.9023 said:Sic Em Soulbeast is definitely not overperforming in high ranks or ATs. It is really punishing against bad players with no awareness, though, so I can understand why this forum is filled with Soulbeast complaint threads.

As for Boonbeast, it's already been nerfed hard and has fallen out of the meta. It's barely even better than Druid at this point.

I wish people would stop using this useless arguement,condi mirages used it before their nerf lol. High level teams are dictated by the meta TEAM comps is it not? So because sic em build doesnt fit into that it's not OP? Lmao ok. It is blatently OP. If any other class did the unblockable dps sic em etc can do at 1500 range while having access to the sustain it has u wouldn't call it OP? Ofcourse u would u just arnt now cuz its ur class and it's obvious and embarrassing lol.i love soulbeast but it is definitely powercrept along with slb,holo and fb and needs toned down. I mean it was OP to have a giant pulsating glowing red blob above ur head before being hit a class that gets 2 shot by any skill by any class and it was nerfed so.... c'mon lol. Soulbeast is a crap zerg class yet because one build based off one skill and modifiers has made it so popular in wvw that every third player I see lately is soulbeast

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