Soulbeast Needs Some Genuine Nerf Bat Love in the Next Balance Update - Page 7 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Soulbeast Needs Some Genuine Nerf Bat Love in the Next Balance Update

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  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 9, 2019

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    @mortrialus.3062
    @praqtos.9035

    I've learned not to engage in longer discussions with people I can't reason/have a constructive conversation with. So, I didn't read your last posts.

    Instead, here's a clip from the Naru's stream (the necro for Team USA). Watch from the timestamp for the next two minutes until the 2 hr 30 min mark.

    Since Naru has won nearly every single monthly on NA, it's obvious that he has a well-informed opinion on class balance, game knowledge, and mechanics for PvP. You can also read his chat to see his viewers weigh in on the topic.

    If an established necro main (the class ranger counters the hardest) has no issue dealing with sic em longbow soulbeast... that says a lot about the people (mesmer players in particular) that have been crying for nerfs.

    Top players in games are well-known for not having good opinions and being biased.

    edit: fixed my abomination of a sentence

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 8, 2019

    @Shiyo.3578 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    @mortrialus.3062
    @praqtos.9035

    I've learned not to engage in longer discussions with people I can't reason/have a constructive conversation with. So, I didn't read your last posts.

    Instead, here's a clip from the Naru's stream (the necro for Team USA). Watch from the timestamp for the next two minutes until the 2 hr 30 min mark.

    Since Naru has won nearly every single monthly on NA, it's obvious that he has a well-informed opinion on class balance, game knowledge, and mechanics for PvP. You can also read his chat to see his viewers weigh in on the topic.

    If an established necro main (the class ranger counters the hardest) has no issue dealing with sic em longbow soulbeast... that says a lot about the people (mesmer players in particular) that have been crying for nerfs.

    Top players and games are well-known for not having good opinions and being biased.

    Top players in any game didn't get to where they are because of luck. Whether or not they're biased, their standings are proof that they have more mechanical skill and game knowledge than the wide majority of the population. With that being said, being able to properly articulate the reasons behind their opinions is a skill. As such, you rarely see the upper echelon debating in balance discussions because 99.9% of the playerbase isn't operating at the same level. It's like trying to teach rocket science to a four year old, it all flies over their heads.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Shiyo.3578 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    @mortrialus.3062
    @praqtos.9035

    I've learned not to engage in longer discussions with people I can't reason/have a constructive conversation with. So, I didn't read your last posts.

    Instead, here's a clip from the Naru's stream (the necro for Team USA). Watch from the timestamp for the next two minutes until the 2 hr 30 min mark.

    Since Naru has won nearly every single monthly on NA, it's obvious that he has a well-informed opinion on class balance, game knowledge, and mechanics for PvP. You can also read his chat to see his viewers weigh in on the topic.

    If an established necro main (the class ranger counters the hardest) has no issue dealing with sic em longbow soulbeast... that says a lot about the people (mesmer players in particular) that have been crying for nerfs.

    Top players and games are well-known for not having good opinions and being biased.

    Top players in any game didn't get to where they are because of luck. Whether or not they're biased, their standings are proof that they have more mechanical skill and game knowledge than the wide majority of the population. With that being said, being able to properly articulate the reasons behind their opinions is a skill. As such, you rarely see the upper echelon debating in balance discussions because 99.9% of the playerbase isn't operating at the same level. It's like trying to teach rocket science to a four year old, it all flies over their heads.

    If you're going to make a big point about how you don't want to engage with me stop @ing me and clogging up my notifications.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Shiyo.3578 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    @mortrialus.3062
    @praqtos.9035

    I've learned not to engage in longer discussions with people I can't reason/have a constructive conversation with. So, I didn't read your last posts.

    Instead, here's a clip from the Naru's stream (the necro for Team USA). Watch from the timestamp for the next two minutes until the 2 hr 30 min mark.

    Since Naru has won nearly every single monthly on NA, it's obvious that he has a well-informed opinion on class balance, game knowledge, and mechanics for PvP. You can also read his chat to see his viewers weigh in on the topic.

    If an established necro main (the class ranger counters the hardest) has no issue dealing with sic em longbow soulbeast... that says a lot about the people (mesmer players in particular) that have been crying for nerfs.

    Top players and games are well-known for not having good opinions and being biased.

    Top players in any game didn't get to where they are because of luck. Whether or not they're biased, their standings are proof that they have more mechanical skill and game knowledge than the wide majority of the population. With that being said, being able to properly articulate the reasons behind their opinions is a skill. As such, you rarely see the upper echelon debating in balance discussions because 99.9% of the playerbase isn't operating at the same level. It's like trying to teach rocket science to a four year old, it all flies over their heads.

    what build are you running?

    Soon™ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    If you're going to make a big point about how you don't want to engage with me stop @ing me and clogging up my notifications.

    Shiyo tagged you. I responded to them.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Shiyo.3578 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    @mortrialus.3062
    @praqtos.9035

    I've learned not to engage in longer discussions with people I can't reason/have a constructive conversation with. So, I didn't read your last posts.

    Instead, here's a clip from the Naru's stream (the necro for Team USA). Watch from the timestamp for the next two minutes until the 2 hr 30 min mark.

    Since Naru has won nearly every single monthly on NA, it's obvious that he has a well-informed opinion on class balance, game knowledge, and mechanics for PvP. You can also read his chat to see his viewers weigh in on the topic.

    If an established necro main (the class ranger counters the hardest) has no issue dealing with sic em longbow soulbeast... that says a lot about the people (mesmer players in particular) that have been crying for nerfs.

    Top players and games are well-known for not having good opinions and being biased.

    Top players in any game didn't get to where they are because of luck. Whether or not they're biased, their standings are proof that they have more mechanical skill and game knowledge than the wide majority of the population. With that being said, being able to properly articulate the reasons behind their opinions is a skill. As such, you rarely see the upper echelon debating in balance discussions because 99.9% of the playerbase isn't operating at the same level. It's like trying to teach rocket science to a four year old, it all flies over their heads.

    what build are you running?

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQJATRjUqQLLWyCOsAXLG+Dq91zgA4Tjf4o7U423hSk+bA-jJxHAB+/AAA4SAYx+DffEAAA

    Amulet changes depending on preference.

  • Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Shiyo.3578 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    @mortrialus.3062
    @praqtos.9035

    I've learned not to engage in longer discussions with people I can't reason/have a constructive conversation with. So, I didn't read your last posts.

    Instead, here's a clip from the Naru's stream (the necro for Team USA). Watch from the timestamp for the next two minutes until the 2 hr 30 min mark.

    Since Naru has won nearly every single monthly on NA, it's obvious that he has a well-informed opinion on class balance, game knowledge, and mechanics for PvP. You can also read his chat to see his viewers weigh in on the topic.

    If an established necro main (the class ranger counters the hardest) has no issue dealing with sic em longbow soulbeast... that says a lot about the people (mesmer players in particular) that have been crying for nerfs.

    Top players and games are well-known for not having good opinions and being biased.

    Top players in any game didn't get to where they are because of luck. Whether or not they're biased, their standings are proof that they have more mechanical skill and game knowledge than the wide majority of the population. With that being said, being able to properly articulate the reasons behind their opinions is a skill. As such, you rarely see the upper echelon debating in balance discussions because 99.9% of the playerbase isn't operating at the same level. It's like trying to teach rocket science to a four year old, it all flies over their heads.

    what build are you running?

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQJATRjUqQLLWyCOsAXLG+Dq91zgA4Tjf4o7U423hSk+bA-jJxHAB+/AAA4SAYx+DffEAAA

    Amulet changes depending on preference.

    thanks

    Soon™ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    If you're going to make a big point about how you don't want to engage with me stop @ing me and clogging up my notifications.

    Shiyo tagged you. I responded to them.

    And I've been polite enough to deliberately untag you since then.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    If you're going to make a big point about how you don't want to engage with me stop @ing me and clogging up my notifications.

    Shiyo tagged you. I responded to them.

    And I've been polite enough to deliberately untag you since then.

    Yeah I didn't check the first time. I will untag going forward.

  • @Solori.6025 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

    1. Not true. Pet automatically retarget on real mesmer as soon you he lose stealth and ignore clones, pet always know who is real mesmer.

    It is true. I highly doubt every ranger is instasighted me among all clones and gave it an order to attack me,especially behind I'm behind a pillar

    Maybe something that can be tested?

    Found random theif, ordered pet to attack him, he goes stealth,pet attack random ppl, thief lose stealth, pet goes to attack thief without me doing anything. The same happened with a memser: he spawned 3 clones,I told pet to attack mesmer,after he lost stealth pet rushed to attack real one. Is this dude really play ranger as main ? I noticed this behaviour loooooooooooooooooooooong ago

    That's because you have your pet set to Guard. This means your pet will attack anyone you attack or foes that attack you. However, this does not mean the pet tracks through stealth. Instead, it means you hit the pet before your clones did after stealthing.

    This setting is bad because it will keep running towards AoEs even after being called back by the player. Good rangers keep their pets on Avoid Combat for better pet control.

    You're misinformed and ignorant. Yes, I am a ranger main.

    So me and a guildie just tested this.

    1. When you set your pet to attack. No matter if you stealth OR detarget the pet will retarget you instantly. I wasn't sure if that had changed since last this was mentioned as I thought this was just a feature rangers enjoyed. The ability for a pet to track a target after they stealth OR drop target is still present. The pet is basically a permanent target beacon. This was tested in both the guild hall and Spvp arena.

    2. Smoke Assault does in fact drop target. ( this was tested exclusively in the GH arena) I never honestly noticed this because the skill drops you in melee range. But yea. It is an undocumented detarget and probably a bug.

    Thanks for testing it. Praqtos did as well, with both Mes and Thief, and found the pet automatically retargated with neither any action on the ranger's part, nor the target attacking the pet after stealth. Like an all-seeing-eye the pet just resumes attacking the real player. This has been my general experience as well, which is one reason why I'm given to griping about ranger pets. Unless I'm missing something, it pretty handily counters all of Mes's stealth and detargeting.

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    Smoke Assault is 100% a detarget even if the skill tool tip doesn't list that fact.

    "Smoke Assault (soulbeast): Conceal yourself and lash out at nearby foes. Gain might each time you damage a foe."

    I think the detarget is inherent to the stealth, like any other stealth.

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 9, 2019

    (sorry Rangers) as i said previously; no professions including specifically Warriors should be excluded by the excessive amount of Toxicity that the toxic balancing has brought
    'ONE SHOT ranger (Soul beast) Guild Wars 2 GW2 | PvP Highlights' by
    Special Snowflake

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 9, 2019

    @Burnfall.9573

    If that video was to display how overpowered a Soulbeast is, there are a couple things that need to be pointed out about that video:

    1. There was not a single person in any of those clips, on his team or against him, that had a single pvp title. No Ruthless, Relentless, Unyielding, No Gods Of PvP or Best of Bestest, there weren't even any old legend titles either AKA - Indominatable, Primordial, ect ect. That video is full of bellow the bell curve Gold 1 & Gold 2 play. In other words, he is noob stomping around with a 1HKO build, which can be done with literally any build that is rocking PvE'ish level DPS. A great Ele player as example, could make a Berserker Staff Ele look amazing in a Gold 1 game. But the truth is that it is in no way viable in Plat tiers, even when wielded by amazing players.
    2. The build he is running is the most gimmick of all gimmicks I've seen since Harsh Master's true 1HKO. Builds like that are in no way functional in even semi competitive play. Look at his weapon sets and utilities. He has literally nothing defensive on his bar, nothing. He isn't even using protection and he has only 1 stun break. The only mobility he has is GS 3. The guy has raw damage, that's it. He isn't even using condi clears, and he isn't even using a Longbow... This guy has "2 dodge rolls" and that's it. A normal Reaper could chase this Ranger and single use of Shroud 4 on it, and he'd be dead, with no way to cleanse chill/cripple, only 1 stunbreak vs. the multiple CCs on Reaper, and simply just no way to disengage such an attacker. His build would get crushed in seconds by any player on any class, that was around 1550+ and I do mean in seconds.

    Although I do enjoy this youtube user's videos, we shouldn't use them as example of Soulbeast balance. Again, any good player using any class could load up a full DPS build like that, and go around noob smashing. Like I could load in as a Power DH Raid Build and tear apart Gold 1 players, but of course we all know DH builds are just inexcusably bad right now.

  • Gamble.4580Gamble.4580 Member ✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    @mortrialus.3062
    @praqtos.9035

    I've learned not to engage in longer discussions with people I can't reason/have a constructive conversation with. So, I didn't read your last posts.

    Instead, here's a clip from the Naru's stream (the necro for Team USA). Watch from the timestamp for the next two minutes until the 2 hr 30 min mark.

    Since Naru has won nearly every single monthly on NA, it's obvious that he has a well-informed opinion on class balance, game knowledge, and mechanics for PvP. You can also read his chat to see his viewers weigh in on the topic.

    If an established necro main (the class ranger counters the hardest) has no issue dealing with sic em longbow soulbeast... that says a lot about the people (mesmer players in particular) that have been crying for nerfs.

    Thnx for narus link there it helped me out allot. I have never learnt rng or their combos but do fight them allot and always save my burst for the bear lol the revel as a sign will help me out allot as never put that with the burst incoming xx

  • bOTEB.1573bOTEB.1573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 9, 2019

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    @Burnfall.9573

    If that video was to display how overpowered a Soulbeast is, there are a couple things that need to be pointed out about that video:

    1. There was not a single person in any of those clips, on his team or against him, that had a single pvp title. No Ruthless, Relentless, Unyielding, No Gods Of PvP or Best of Bestest, there weren't even any old legend titles either AKA - Indominatable, Primordial, ect ect. That video is full of bellow the bell curve Gold 1 & Gold 2 play. In other words, he is noob stomping around with a 1HKO build, which can be done with literally any build that is rocking PvE'ish level DPS. A great Ele player as example, could make a Berserker Staff Ele look amazing in a Gold 1 game. But the truth is that it is in no way viable in Plat tiers, even when wielded by amazing players.
    2. The build he is running is the most gimmick of all gimmicks I've seen since Harsh Master's true 1HKO. Builds like that are in no way functional in even semi competitive play. Look at his weapon sets and utilities. He has literally nothing defensive on his bar, nothing. He isn't even using protection and he has only 1 stun break. The only mobility he has is GS 3. The guy has raw damage, that's it. He isn't even using condi clears, and he isn't even using a Longbow... This guy has "2 dodge rolls" and that's it. A normal Reaper could chase this Ranger and single use of Shroud 4 on it, and he'd be dead, with no way to cleanse chill/cripple, only 1 stunbreak vs. the multiple CCs on Reaper, and simply just no way to disengage such an attacker. His build would get crushed in seconds by any player on any class, that was around 1550+ and I do mean in seconds.

    Although I do enjoy this youtube user's videos, we shouldn't use them as example of Soulbeast balance. Again, any good player using any class could load up a full DPS build like that, and go around noob smashing. Like I could load in as a Power DH Raid Build and tear apart Gold 1 players, but of course we all know DH builds are just inexcusably bad right now.

    I truly enjoy your unbiased opinions all over the forum but you gotta be careful here. Using too much logic may result in arguing and/or "We don't care, nerf the OP SLB" statements. As OP stated - he doesn't care if this SLB isn't viable in higher tiers, as long as it is viable in lower tiers it deserves a nerf.

    Wishlist:
    Everything that kills me should be nerfed
    Remove all time gates - I play more than some people yet I receive the same rewards per day/week (PvP/WvW tickets etc)
    ANET developments/events and everything else should be in a schedule with the time I play

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

    1. Not true. Pet automatically retarget on real mesmer as soon you he lose stealth and ignore clones, pet always know who is real mesmer.

    It is true. I highly doubt every ranger is instasighted me among all clones and gave it an order to attack me,especially behind I'm behind a pillar

    Maybe something that can be tested?

    Found random theif, ordered pet to attack him, he goes stealth,pet attack random ppl, thief lose stealth, pet goes to attack thief without me doing anything. The same happened with a memser: he spawned 3 clones,I told pet to attack mesmer,after he lost stealth pet rushed to attack real one. Is this dude really play ranger as main ? I noticed this behaviour loooooooooooooooooooooong ago

    That's because you have your pet set to Guard. This means your pet will attack anyone you attack or foes that attack you. However, this does not mean the pet tracks through stealth. Instead, it means you hit the pet before your clones did after stealthing.

    This setting is bad because it will keep running towards AoEs even after being called back by the player. Good rangers keep their pets on Avoid Combat for better pet control.

    You're misinformed and ignorant. Yes, I am a ranger main.

    So me and a guildie just tested this.

    1. When you set your pet to attack. No matter if you stealth OR detarget the pet will retarget you instantly. I wasn't sure if that had changed since last this was mentioned as I thought this was just a feature rangers enjoyed. The ability for a pet to track a target after they stealth OR drop target is still present. The pet is basically a permanent target beacon. This was tested in both the guild hall and Spvp arena.

    2. Smoke Assault does in fact drop target. ( this was tested exclusively in the GH arena) I never honestly noticed this because the skill drops you in melee range. But yea. It is an undocumented detarget and probably a bug.

    Okay. So I could be wrong about the first point, but I really don't believe that's the case. The wiki states "Pets set to guard will attack enemies that its owner attacks, and will defend its owner if it's attacked by an enemy by attacking that enemy." I just tested it myself and my pet runs back to me after the enemy stealths. It resumes attacking if the enemy deals any damage after leaving stealth. Also, it will continue attacking if the ranger attacks/changes target back onto them.

    As for Smoke Assault dropping target, I just tested it myself and rewatched some old vod footage. I never realized it before, but yes, you're correct. This is not listed on the wiki nor the tooltip so I never would've assumed it functioned like that. It's probably a bug.

    I fight outnumbered in every single match I play. This means I'm usually 1v2+ for a good portion of my games. As such, I'm used to tab targetting really quickly between multiple players and AI and it's just muscle memory to retarget someone nearly instantly if I lose that target. Because of this and the lack of information on the tooltip, I didn't know there was detargetting on this skill.

    @praqtos.9035 You're right about the detarget, but I'm not sure about Guard yet. My pet runs back to me unless some sort of damage is dealt by the opponent after exiting stealth.

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 9, 2019

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

    1. Not true. Pet automatically retarget on real mesmer as soon you he lose stealth and ignore clones, pet always know who is real mesmer.

    It is true. I highly doubt every ranger is instasighted me among all clones and gave it an order to attack me,especially behind I'm behind a pillar

    Maybe something that can be tested?

    Found random theif, ordered pet to attack him, he goes stealth,pet attack random ppl, thief lose stealth, pet goes to attack thief without me doing anything. The same happened with a memser: he spawned 3 clones,I told pet to attack mesmer,after he lost stealth pet rushed to attack real one. Is this dude really play ranger as main ? I noticed this behaviour loooooooooooooooooooooong ago

    That's because you have your pet set to Guard. This means your pet will attack anyone you attack or foes that attack you. However, this does not mean the pet tracks through stealth. Instead, it means you hit the pet before your clones did after stealthing.

    This setting is bad because it will keep running towards AoEs even after being called back by the player. Good rangers keep their pets on Avoid Combat for better pet control.

    You're misinformed and ignorant. Yes, I am a ranger main.

    So me and a guildie just tested this.

    1. When you set your pet to attack. No matter if you stealth OR detarget the pet will retarget you instantly. I wasn't sure if that had changed since last this was mentioned as I thought this was just a feature rangers enjoyed. The ability for a pet to track a target after they stealth OR drop target is still present. The pet is basically a permanent target beacon. This was tested in both the guild hall and Spvp arena.

    2. Smoke Assault does in fact drop target. ( this was tested exclusively in the GH arena) I never honestly noticed this because the skill drops you in melee range. But yea. It is an undocumented detarget and probably a bug.

    Okay. So I could be wrong about the first point, but I really don't believe that's the case. The wiki states "Pets set to guard will attack enemies that its owner attacks, and will defend its owner if it's attacked by an enemy by attacking that enemy." I just tested it myself and my pet runs back to me after the enemy stealths. It resumes attacking if the enemy deals any damage after leaving stealth. Also, it will continue attacking if the ranger attacks/changes target back onto them.

    As for Smoke Assault dropping target, I just tested it myself and rewatched some old vod footage. I never realized it before, but yes, you're correct. This is not listed on the wiki nor the tooltip so I never would've assumed it functioned like that. It's probably a bug.

    I fight outnumbered in every single match I play. This means I'm usually 1v2+ for a good portion of my games. As such, I'm used to tab targetting really quickly between multiple players and AI and it's just muscle memory to retarget someone nearly instantly if I lose that target. Because of this and the lack of information on the tooltip, I didn't know there was detargetting on this skill.

    @praqtos.9035 You're right about the detarget, but I'm not sure about Guard yet. My pet runs back to me unless some sort of damage is dealt by the opponent after exiting stealth.

    I did test myself. Pet rushes towards un-stealthed target as soon as it lost stealth. If control bothers you, why dont you use f3, even if you take damage or pet, this wont do anything. If you play at avoid combat, doesnt mean other rangers too OR that pet behaviour doesnt happen at all.
    About breaking target... Its not a bug,thats anet giving away mesmer unique things to every class. Even more description says "conceal yourself". Jaunt still has "3 charges" for example. Before insult anyone you could test it as I did (I knew it before but double checked)

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @praqtos.9035 said:
    I did test myself. Pet rushes towards un-stealthed target as soon as it lost stealth. If control bothers you, why dont you use f3, even if you take damage or pet, this wont do anything. If you play at avoid combat, doesnt mean other rangers too OR that pet behaviour doesnt happen at all.
    About breaking target... Its not a bug,thats anet giving away mesmer unique things to every class. Even more description says "conceal yourself". Jaunt still has "3 charges" for example. Before insult anyone you could test it as I did (I knew it before but double checked)

    Yeah I tell any rangers I teach to keep their pet on avoid combat instead of guard. Guard is a horrible setting. Any sort of damage from the player/enemy will trigger the pet to run back into all of the AoEs on a node. This will end up killing your pet very frequently and cause the ranger to spam f3 so the pet doesn't keep running into damage. But yeah, when I tested it again the pet runs back to me when the enemy stealths and only attacks if it/I get attacked again, I order it to attack, or I attack the enemy.

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 9, 2019

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:
    I did test myself. Pet rushes towards un-stealthed target as soon as it lost stealth. If control bothers you, why dont you use f3, even if you take damage or pet, this wont do anything. If you play at avoid combat, doesnt mean other rangers too OR that pet behaviour doesnt happen at all.
    About breaking target... Its not a bug,thats anet giving away mesmer unique things to every class. Even more description says "conceal yourself". Jaunt still has "3 charges" for example. Before insult anyone you could test it as I did (I knew it before but double checked)

    Yeah I tell any rangers I teach to keep their pet on avoid combat instead of guard. Guard is a horrible setting. Any sort of damage from the player/enemy will trigger the pet to run back into all of the AoEs on a node. This will end up killing your pet very frequently and cause the ranger to spam f3 so the pet doesn't keep running into damage. But yeah, when I tested it again the pet runs back to me when the enemy stealths and only attacks if it/I get attacked again, I order it to attack, or I attack the enemy.

    I dont get it, on what option did you test it, avoid combat? I had guard and it did attack the guy who was unstealthed(same with mesmer)
    When I play ranger for memes "spam f3" is not a problem for me. Also a lot of times pet like scripted interrupt key abilities on enemies or mine, like heal, when evade ends I get perfectly stunned by pet, coincidence or not i'm not sure but pretty annoying. Another ranger main friend said the same.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:
    I did test myself. Pet rushes towards un-stealthed target as soon as it lost stealth. If control bothers you, why dont you use f3, even if you take damage or pet, this wont do anything. If you play at avoid combat, doesnt mean other rangers too OR that pet behaviour doesnt happen at all.
    About breaking target... Its not a bug,thats anet giving away mesmer unique things to every class. Even more description says "conceal yourself". Jaunt still has "3 charges" for example. Before insult anyone you could test it as I did (I knew it before but double checked)

    Yeah I tell any rangers I teach to keep their pet on avoid combat instead of guard. Guard is a horrible setting. Any sort of damage from the player/enemy will trigger the pet to run back into all of the AoEs on a node. This will end up killing your pet very frequently and cause the ranger to spam f3 so the pet doesn't keep running into damage. But yeah, when I tested it again the pet runs back to me when the enemy stealths and only attacks if it/I get attacked again, I order it to attack, or I attack the enemy.

    I dont get it, on what option did you test it, avoid combat? I had guard and it did attack the guy who was unstealthed(same with mesmer)
    When I play ranger for memes "spam f3" is not a problem for me. Also a lot of times pet like scripted interrupt key abilities on enemies or mine, like heal, when evade ends I get perfectly stunned by pet, coincidence or not i'm not sure but pretty annoying. Another ranger main friend said the same.

    No. I tested the pet on guard. My pet runs back to me without any input if the target stealths. It only resumes attacking if any damage is dealt from either party.

    Also, pets follow a relatively predictable skill order. As such, a ranger who has spent a long period of time learning how to control their pet properly will be able to stow cc abilities in order to save them for key interrupts. However, against the majority of rangers who do not do this, those interrupts are "random."

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 9, 2019

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:
    I did test myself. Pet rushes towards un-stealthed target as soon as it lost stealth. If control bothers you, why dont you use f3, even if you take damage or pet, this wont do anything. If you play at avoid combat, doesnt mean other rangers too OR that pet behaviour doesnt happen at all.
    About breaking target... Its not a bug,thats anet giving away mesmer unique things to every class. Even more description says "conceal yourself". Jaunt still has "3 charges" for example. Before insult anyone you could test it as I did (I knew it before but double checked)

    Yeah I tell any rangers I teach to keep their pet on avoid combat instead of guard. Guard is a horrible setting. Any sort of damage from the player/enemy will trigger the pet to run back into all of the AoEs on a node. This will end up killing your pet very frequently and cause the ranger to spam f3 so the pet doesn't keep running into damage. But yeah, when I tested it again the pet runs back to me when the enemy stealths and only attacks if it/I get attacked again, I order it to attack, or I attack the enemy.

    I dont get it, on what option did you test it, avoid combat? I had guard and it did attack the guy who was unstealthed(same with mesmer)
    When I play ranger for memes "spam f3" is not a problem for me. Also a lot of times pet like scripted interrupt key abilities on enemies or mine, like heal, when evade ends I get perfectly stunned by pet, coincidence or not i'm not sure but pretty annoying. Another ranger main friend said the same.

    No. I tested the pet on guard. My pet runs back to me without any input if the target stealths. It only resumes attacking if any damage is dealt from either party.

    Also, pets follow a relatively predictable skill order. As such, a ranger who has spent a long period of time learning how to control their pet properly will be able to stow cc abilities in order to save them for key interrupts. However, against the majority of rangers who do not do this, those interrupts are "random."

    I can tell these rangers arent intentionally made their pets interrupt you xD .
    I have no idea how u test it. I just brought a friend-thief. I press on pet F1 on him, he goes stealth, pet comes to me, he lose stealth,pet runs to hit him again, nobody hit me or I order pet to attack him again. How does it work for me and doesnt for you?
    I just tested with avoid combat, LOL, pet still goes to attack thief after he lost stealth. How it doesnt work for you LOL

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 9, 2019

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:
    I did test myself. Pet rushes towards un-stealthed target as soon as it lost stealth. If control bothers you, why dont you use f3, even if you take damage or pet, this wont do anything. If you play at avoid combat, doesnt mean other rangers too OR that pet behaviour doesnt happen at all.
    About breaking target... Its not a bug,thats anet giving away mesmer unique things to every class. Even more description says "conceal yourself". Jaunt still has "3 charges" for example. Before insult anyone you could test it as I did (I knew it before but double checked)

    Yeah I tell any rangers I teach to keep their pet on avoid combat instead of guard. Guard is a horrible setting. Any sort of damage from the player/enemy will trigger the pet to run back into all of the AoEs on a node. This will end up killing your pet very frequently and cause the ranger to spam f3 so the pet doesn't keep running into damage. But yeah, when I tested it again the pet runs back to me when the enemy stealths and only attacks if it/I get attacked again, I order it to attack, or I attack the enemy.

    I dont get it, on what option did you test it, avoid combat? I had guard and it did attack the guy who was unstealthed(same with mesmer)
    When I play ranger for memes "spam f3" is not a problem for me. Also a lot of times pet like scripted interrupt key abilities on enemies or mine, like heal, when evade ends I get perfectly stunned by pet, coincidence or not i'm not sure but pretty annoying. Another ranger main friend said the same.

    No. I tested the pet on guard. My pet runs back to me without any input if the target stealths. It only resumes attacking if any damage is dealt from either party.

    Also, pets follow a relatively predictable skill order. As such, a ranger who has spent a long period of time learning how to control their pet properly will be able to stow cc abilities in order to save them for key interrupts. However, against the majority of rangers who do not do this, those interrupts are "random."

    I can tell these rangers arent intentionally made their pets interrupt you xD .
    I have no idea how u test it. I just brought a friend-thief. I press on pet F1 on him, he goes stealth, pet comes to me, he lose stealth,pet runs to hit him again, nobody hit me or I order pet to attack him again. How does it work for me and doesnt for you?
    I just tested with avoid combat, LOL, pet still goes to attack thief after he lost stealth. How it doesnt work for you LOL

    Yeah idk

    I f1 and f3 a lot depending on what's happening because I don't want my pet to take unnecessary damage and so I don't have to deal with my pet running back in and proccing things like Full Counter or counterattacks. Maybe the tooltips are wrong and the ways the pets work were changed at some point.

  • Solori.6025Solori.6025 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:
    I did test myself. Pet rushes towards un-stealthed target as soon as it lost stealth. If control bothers you, why dont you use f3, even if you take damage or pet, this wont do anything. If you play at avoid combat, doesnt mean other rangers too OR that pet behaviour doesnt happen at all.
    About breaking target... Its not a bug,thats anet giving away mesmer unique things to every class. Even more description says "conceal yourself". Jaunt still has "3 charges" for example. Before insult anyone you could test it as I did (I knew it before but double checked)

    Yeah I tell any rangers I teach to keep their pet on avoid combat instead of guard. Guard is a horrible setting. Any sort of damage from the player/enemy will trigger the pet to run back into all of the AoEs on a node. This will end up killing your pet very frequently and cause the ranger to spam f3 so the pet doesn't keep running into damage. But yeah, when I tested it again the pet runs back to me when the enemy stealths and only attacks if it/I get attacked again, I order it to attack, or I attack the enemy.

    I dont get it, on what option did you test it, avoid combat? I had guard and it did attack the guy who was unstealthed(same with mesmer)
    When I play ranger for memes "spam f3" is not a problem for me. Also a lot of times pet like scripted interrupt key abilities on enemies or mine, like heal, when evade ends I get perfectly stunned by pet, coincidence or not i'm not sure but pretty annoying. Another ranger main friend said the same.

    No. I tested the pet on guard. My pet runs back to me without any input if the target stealths. It only resumes attacking if any damage is dealt from either party.

    Also, pets follow a relatively predictable skill order. As such, a ranger who has spent a long period of time learning how to control their pet properly will be able to stow cc abilities in order to save them for key interrupts. However, against the majority of rangers who do not do this, those interrupts are "random."

    I can tell these rangers arent intentionally made their pets interrupt you xD .
    I have no idea how u test it. I just brought a friend-thief. I press on pet F1 on him, he goes stealth, pet comes to me, he lose stealth,pet runs to hit him again, nobody hit me or I order pet to attack him again. How does it work for me and doesnt for you?
    I just tested with avoid combat, LOL, pet still goes to attack thief after he lost stealth. How it doesnt work for you LOL

    Yeah idk

    I f1 and f3 a lot depending on what's happening because I don't want my pet to take unnecessary damage and so I don't have to deal with my pet running back in and proccing things like Full Counter or counterattacks. Maybe the tooltips are wrong and the ways the pets work were changed at some point.

    Pets have always behaved this way. I noticed this way back when they fixed some of the pathing issues (2012?)
    You can also test this in the FFA area if you message a thief or mes sitting there usually you find a kind enough person willing to help.

    Tingle my stingleberry

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 9, 2019

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:
    I did test myself. Pet rushes towards un-stealthed target as soon as it lost stealth. If control bothers you, why dont you use f3, even if you take damage or pet, this wont do anything. If you play at avoid combat, doesnt mean other rangers too OR that pet behaviour doesnt happen at all.
    About breaking target... Its not a bug,thats anet giving away mesmer unique things to every class. Even more description says "conceal yourself". Jaunt still has "3 charges" for example. Before insult anyone you could test it as I did (I knew it before but double checked)

    Yeah I tell any rangers I teach to keep their pet on avoid combat instead of guard. Guard is a horrible setting. Any sort of damage from the player/enemy will trigger the pet to run back into all of the AoEs on a node. This will end up killing your pet very frequently and cause the ranger to spam f3 so the pet doesn't keep running into damage. But yeah, when I tested it again the pet runs back to me when the enemy stealths and only attacks if it/I get attacked again, I order it to attack, or I attack the enemy.

    I dont get it, on what option did you test it, avoid combat? I had guard and it did attack the guy who was unstealthed(same with mesmer)
    When I play ranger for memes "spam f3" is not a problem for me. Also a lot of times pet like scripted interrupt key abilities on enemies or mine, like heal, when evade ends I get perfectly stunned by pet, coincidence or not i'm not sure but pretty annoying. Another ranger main friend said the same.

    No. I tested the pet on guard. My pet runs back to me without any input if the target stealths. It only resumes attacking if any damage is dealt from either party.

    Also, pets follow a relatively predictable skill order. As such, a ranger who has spent a long period of time learning how to control their pet properly will be able to stow cc abilities in order to save them for key interrupts. However, against the majority of rangers who do not do this, those interrupts are "random."

    I can tell these rangers arent intentionally made their pets interrupt you xD .
    I have no idea how u test it. I just brought a friend-thief. I press on pet F1 on him, he goes stealth, pet comes to me, he lose stealth,pet runs to hit him again, nobody hit me or I order pet to attack him again. How does it work for me and doesnt for you?
    I just tested with avoid combat, LOL, pet still goes to attack thief after he lost stealth. How it doesnt work for you LOL

    Yeah idk

    I f1 and f3 a lot depending on what's happening because I don't want my pet to take unnecessary damage and so I don't have to deal with my pet running back in and proccing things like Full Counter or counterattacks. Maybe the tooltips are wrong and the ways the pets work were changed at some point.

    Pets have always behaved this way. I noticed this way back when they fixed some of the pathing issues (2012?)
    You can also test this in the FFA area if you message a thief or mes sitting there usually you find a kind enough person willing to help.

    Yeah I only used Guard during the first days after release when I started playing ranger. I prefer to have more control over my pet during combat, which I achieve though keeping them on Avoid Combat.

    I'm not one to fire and forget with my pet so I guess I could be wrong about them tracking through stealth. Out of all of the years I've played (7000+ hours alone on my main) I haven't noticed it because of my playstyle.

  • Shadow Order.7258Shadow Order.7258 Member ✭✭✭

    Leave these soul beast players alone. We need a spec for those with 'limitations'.

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:
    I did test myself. Pet rushes towards un-stealthed target as soon as it lost stealth. If control bothers you, why dont you use f3, even if you take damage or pet, this wont do anything. If you play at avoid combat, doesnt mean other rangers too OR that pet behaviour doesnt happen at all.
    About breaking target... Its not a bug,thats anet giving away mesmer unique things to every class. Even more description says "conceal yourself". Jaunt still has "3 charges" for example. Before insult anyone you could test it as I did (I knew it before but double checked)

    Yeah I tell any rangers I teach to keep their pet on avoid combat instead of guard. Guard is a horrible setting. Any sort of damage from the player/enemy will trigger the pet to run back into all of the AoEs on a node. This will end up killing your pet very frequently and cause the ranger to spam f3 so the pet doesn't keep running into damage. But yeah, when I tested it again the pet runs back to me when the enemy stealths and only attacks if it/I get attacked again, I order it to attack, or I attack the enemy.

    I dont get it, on what option did you test it, avoid combat? I had guard and it did attack the guy who was unstealthed(same with mesmer)
    When I play ranger for memes "spam f3" is not a problem for me. Also a lot of times pet like scripted interrupt key abilities on enemies or mine, like heal, when evade ends I get perfectly stunned by pet, coincidence or not i'm not sure but pretty annoying. Another ranger main friend said the same.

    No. I tested the pet on guard. My pet runs back to me without any input if the target stealths. It only resumes attacking if any damage is dealt from either party.

    Also, pets follow a relatively predictable skill order. As such, a ranger who has spent a long period of time learning how to control their pet properly will be able to stow cc abilities in order to save them for key interrupts. However, against the majority of rangers who do not do this, those interrupts are "random."

    I can tell these rangers arent intentionally made their pets interrupt you xD .
    I have no idea how u test it. I just brought a friend-thief. I press on pet F1 on him, he goes stealth, pet comes to me, he lose stealth,pet runs to hit him again, nobody hit me or I order pet to attack him again. How does it work for me and doesnt for you?
    I just tested with avoid combat, LOL, pet still goes to attack thief after he lost stealth. How it doesnt work for you LOL

    Yeah idk

    I f1 and f3 a lot depending on what's happening because I don't want my pet to take unnecessary damage and so I don't have to deal with my pet running back in and proccing things like Full Counter or counterattacks. Maybe the tooltips are wrong and the ways the pets work were changed at some point.

    Pets have always behaved this way. I noticed this way back when they fixed some of the pathing issues (2012?)
    You can also test this in the FFA area if you message a thief or mes sitting there usually you find a kind enough person willing to help.

    Yeah I only used Guard during the first days after release when I started playing ranger. I prefer to have more control over my pet during combat, which I achieve though keeping them on Avoid Combat.

    I'm not one to fire and forget with my pet so I guess I could be wrong about them tracking through stealth. Out of all of the years I've played (7000+ hours alone on my main) I haven't noticed it because of my playstyle.

    Or because you never played mesmer/thief. Worth the insults tho? ;)

  • EnderzShadow.2506EnderzShadow.2506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

    1. Not true. Pet automatically retarget on real mesmer as soon you he lose stealth and ignore clones, pet always know who is real mesmer.

    It is true. I highly doubt every ranger is instasighted me among all clones and gave it an order to attack me,especially behind I'm behind a pillar

    Maybe something that can be tested?

    Found random theif, ordered pet to attack him, he goes stealth,pet attack random ppl, thief lose stealth, pet goes to attack thief without me doing anything. The same happened with a memser: he spawned 3 clones,I told pet to attack mesmer,after he lost stealth pet rushed to attack real one. Is this dude really play ranger as main ? I noticed this behaviour loooooooooooooooooooooong ago

    That's because you have your pet set to Guard. This means your pet will attack anyone you attack or foes that attack you. However, this does not mean the pet tracks through stealth. Instead, it means you hit the pet before your clones did after stealthing.

    This setting is bad because it will keep running towards AoEs even after being called back by the player. Good rangers keep their pets on Avoid Combat for better pet control.

    You're misinformed and ignorant. Yes, I am a ranger main.

    So me and a guildie just tested this.

    1. When you set your pet to attack. No matter if you stealth OR detarget the pet will retarget you instantly. I wasn't sure if that had changed since last this was mentioned as I thought this was just a feature rangers enjoyed. The ability for a pet to track a target after they stealth OR drop target is still present. The pet is basically a permanent target beacon. This was tested in both the guild hall and Spvp arena.

    2. Smoke Assault does in fact drop target. ( this was tested exclusively in the GH arena) I never honestly noticed this because the skill drops you in melee range. But yea. It is an undocumented detarget and probably a bug.

    Thanks for testing it. Praqtos did as well, with both Mes and Thief, and found the pet automatically retargated with neither any action on the ranger's part, nor the target attacking the pet after stealth. Like an all-seeing-eye the pet just resumes attacking the real player. This has been my general experience as well, which is one reason why I'm given to griping about ranger pets. Unless I'm missing something, it pretty handily counters all of Mes's stealth and detargeting.

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    Smoke Assault is 100% a detarget even if the skill tool tip doesn't list that fact.

    "Smoke Assault (soulbeast): Conceal yourself and lash out at nearby foes. Gain might each time you damage a foe."

    I think the detarget is inherent to the stealth, like any other stealth.

    TLDR Clones do the same thing that Ranger pets do after a stealth.
    Complaints about Mesmers on the forums did not cause the nerf.
    Your 'complaint' will not cause a nerf.
    ALL Mesmers in Gold 2 up to Plat 2 were overperforming based on actual numbers that ANET sees.
    This was mentioned by a Dev, although not here.

    So you think it's unfair that the Ranger pet will retarget and attack a mesmer, with clones around, after they unstealth?
    It happens the same way for a Ranger fighting a Mesmer. Ranger Stealths, while clones are up and as soon as the Ranger is unstealthed, behind a pillar, completely breaking any line of site or targetability.

    Look at that, I can have the same exact complaint that you have. All Rangers know, through years of their own testing that , Mesmers Clones automatically retarget with neither any action on the Mesmers part, nor the target attacking the Clones after stealth. Like All-Seeing-Eye-Balls the Clones just resume attacking the Ranger. This has been my general experience as well, but I don't go to the forums to ask for nerfs on Mesmer Clones Targeting.

    Unless I'm missing something, it pretty handily counters Any classes that have stealthed.

    Time would of been better spent playing Ranger/Druid/Soulbeast the class in Ranked PvP.

    The bat swings for everyone at some time. Over a period of almost 7 years, this has became apparently clear.

    mhm, ok, sure, whatever you say, no after you, I insist, no really, please, be my guest,

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 9, 2019

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:
    Lots of words that make no sense and are irrelevant

    So clones are so dangerous? Or you mean shatter or phantasms? If you are stealthed shatters self explode on the spot, phantasm either self destruct or attack anything that nearby and dont wait until the main target come out of stealth and thats been forever. Is ranger pet suddenly dies to heart attack if mesmer goes stealth? I dont think so

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 9, 2019

    @praqtos.9035 said:
    Or because you never played mesmer/thief. Worth the insults tho? ;)

    Mesmer is my third highest played class and I play thief as well.

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:
    Or because you never played mesmer/thief. Worth the insults tho? ;)

    Mesmer is my third highest played class and I play thief as well.

    Then you could notice this as this happen all the time,at least to me

  • @EnderzShadow.2506 said:

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

    1. Not true. Pet automatically retarget on real mesmer as soon you he lose stealth and ignore clones, pet always know who is real mesmer.

    It is true. I highly doubt every ranger is instasighted me among all clones and gave it an order to attack me,especially behind I'm behind a pillar

    Maybe something that can be tested?

    Found random theif, ordered pet to attack him, he goes stealth,pet attack random ppl, thief lose stealth, pet goes to attack thief without me doing anything. The same happened with a memser: he spawned 3 clones,I told pet to attack mesmer,after he lost stealth pet rushed to attack real one. Is this dude really play ranger as main ? I noticed this behaviour loooooooooooooooooooooong ago

    That's because you have your pet set to Guard. This means your pet will attack anyone you attack or foes that attack you. However, this does not mean the pet tracks through stealth. Instead, it means you hit the pet before your clones did after stealthing.

    This setting is bad because it will keep running towards AoEs even after being called back by the player. Good rangers keep their pets on Avoid Combat for better pet control.

    You're misinformed and ignorant. Yes, I am a ranger main.

    So me and a guildie just tested this.

    1. When you set your pet to attack. No matter if you stealth OR detarget the pet will retarget you instantly. I wasn't sure if that had changed since last this was mentioned as I thought this was just a feature rangers enjoyed. The ability for a pet to track a target after they stealth OR drop target is still present. The pet is basically a permanent target beacon. This was tested in both the guild hall and Spvp arena.

    2. Smoke Assault does in fact drop target. ( this was tested exclusively in the GH arena) I never honestly noticed this because the skill drops you in melee range. But yea. It is an undocumented detarget and probably a bug.

    Thanks for testing it. Praqtos did as well, with both Mes and Thief, and found the pet automatically retargated with neither any action on the ranger's part, nor the target attacking the pet after stealth. Like an all-seeing-eye the pet just resumes attacking the real player. This has been my general experience as well, which is one reason why I'm given to griping about ranger pets. Unless I'm missing something, it pretty handily counters all of Mes's stealth and detargeting.

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    Smoke Assault is 100% a detarget even if the skill tool tip doesn't list that fact.

    "Smoke Assault (soulbeast): Conceal yourself and lash out at nearby foes. Gain might each time you damage a foe."

    I think the detarget is inherent to the stealth, like any other stealth.

    TLDR Clones do the same thing that Ranger pets do after a stealth.
    Complaints about Mesmers on the forums did not cause the nerf.

    You have no way of knowing this. But if one were to speculate, it's hard to imagine that months on end of multiple "mesmer OP" threads a day which culminated in a super thread of merged threads, had no effect whatsoever on the nerfs that followed.

    Your 'complaint' will not cause a nerf.

    You have no way of knowing this.

    So you think it's unfair that the Ranger pet will retarget and attack a mesmer, with clones around, after they unstealth?
    It happens the same way for a Ranger fighting a Mesmer. Ranger Stealths, while clones are up and as soon as the Ranger is unstealthed, behind a pillar, completely breaking any line of site or targetability.

    Look at that, I can have the same exact complaint that you have. All Rangers know, through years of their own testing that , Mesmers Clones automatically retarget with neither any action on the Mesmers part, nor the target attacking the Clones after stealth. Like All-Seeing-Eye-Balls the Clones just resume attacking the Ranger. This has been my general experience as well, but I don't go to the forums to ask for nerfs on Mesmer Clones Targeting.

    Unless I'm missing something, it pretty handily counters Any classes that have stealthed.

    It's flattering that you're mimicking my language. But the use is inapposite.

    Mesmer, the class of deception and trickery, relies heavily on detargets and stealths to briefly escape focus among clones (and in turn lacks defenses other professions rely more on). It is much more impactful that pets act as "permanent target beacons" (to borrow @Solori.6025's term), effectively bypassing Mesmer's signature defense: deception. When a Ranger or a Thief stealths or detargets, there's no element of "which one's the real player?" They can be immediately retargeted by their opponent anyway because there's only one of them.

    With Mesmers, for AIs to 100% always retarget the real player following detarget, breaks one of Mesmer's basic profession mechanics. AIs act as a big huge sign telling their owner: "This one! This one's the real Mesmer!" As a Ranger, when the enemy Mesmer stealths/breaks target, just wait until your pet zeros in on one of the "clones." That's the real one.

    Basically, even if all AIs automatically retarget, this behavior is much more detrimental to the Mesmer playstyle than to any other spec with stealth or detargets.

    Not to mention this:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:
    Lots of words that make no sense and are irrelevant

    So clones are so dangerous? Or you mean shatter or phantasms? If you are stealthed shatters self explode on the spot, phantasm either self destruct or attack anything that nearby and dont wait until the main target come out of stealth and thats been forever. Is ranger pet suddenly dies to heart attack if mesmer goes stealth? I dont think so

    .

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:
    The bat swings for everyone at some time. Over a period of almost 7 years, this has became apparently clear.

    Indeed. It has already swung for Mesmers for over a year. But other specs are long past due, including SLB. :smile:

  • Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Outside the boonfart Sb cheese, a hardhitting slb is one of the classes I consider balanced and fun to duel.

    Actually most rangers are fun to fight as a thief, because it can go either way if we mess up.

    I don't get mad when i get 100-0 by Soulbeast if he catch me off guard.

    I am more mad that traits for scourge say burn on shroud 1 but apply it on all shroud skills....

    see https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dhuumfire

    and https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Scourge_-_Shadefire usage

    DE is useless so I am glad when a ranger keeps a scourge in the respawn.

    tired of faceroll kitten in this game

    Soon™ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

  • EnderzShadow.2506EnderzShadow.2506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

    1. Not true. Pet automatically retarget on real mesmer as soon you he lose stealth and ignore clones, pet always know who is real mesmer.

    It is true. I highly doubt every ranger is instasighted me among all clones and gave it an order to attack me,especially behind I'm behind a pillar

    Maybe something that can be tested?

    Found random theif, ordered pet to attack him, he goes stealth,pet attack random ppl, thief lose stealth, pet goes to attack thief without me doing anything. The same happened with a memser: he spawned 3 clones,I told pet to attack mesmer,after he lost stealth pet rushed to attack real one. Is this dude really play ranger as main ? I noticed this behaviour loooooooooooooooooooooong ago

    That's because you have your pet set to Guard. This means your pet will attack anyone you attack or foes that attack you. However, this does not mean the pet tracks through stealth. Instead, it means you hit the pet before your clones did after stealthing.

    This setting is bad because it will keep running towards AoEs even after being called back by the player. Good rangers keep their pets on Avoid Combat for better pet control.

    You're misinformed and ignorant. Yes, I am a ranger main.

    So me and a guildie just tested this.

    1. When you set your pet to attack. No matter if you stealth OR detarget the pet will retarget you instantly. I wasn't sure if that had changed since last this was mentioned as I thought this was just a feature rangers enjoyed. The ability for a pet to track a target after they stealth OR drop target is still present. The pet is basically a permanent target beacon. This was tested in both the guild hall and Spvp arena.

    2. Smoke Assault does in fact drop target. ( this was tested exclusively in the GH arena) I never honestly noticed this because the skill drops you in melee range. But yea. It is an undocumented detarget and probably a bug.

    Thanks for testing it. Praqtos did as well, with both Mes and Thief, and found the pet automatically retargated with neither any action on the ranger's part, nor the target attacking the pet after stealth. Like an all-seeing-eye the pet just resumes attacking the real player. This has been my general experience as well, which is one reason why I'm given to griping about ranger pets. Unless I'm missing something, it pretty handily counters all of Mes's stealth and detargeting.

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    Smoke Assault is 100% a detarget even if the skill tool tip doesn't list that fact.

    "Smoke Assault (soulbeast): Conceal yourself and lash out at nearby foes. Gain might each time you damage a foe."

    I think the detarget is inherent to the stealth, like any other stealth.

    TLDR Clones do the same thing that Ranger pets do after a stealth.
    Complaints about Mesmers on the forums did not cause the nerf.

    You have no way of knowing this. But if one were to speculate, it's hard to imagine that months on end of multiple "mesmer OP" threads a day which culminated in a super thread of merged threads, had no effect whatsoever on the nerfs that followed.

    Your 'complaint' will not cause a nerf.

    You have no way of knowing this.

    So you think it's unfair that the Ranger pet will retarget and attack a mesmer, with clones around, after they unstealth?
    It happens the same way for a Ranger fighting a Mesmer. Ranger Stealths, while clones are up and as soon as the Ranger is unstealthed, behind a pillar, completely breaking any line of site or targetability.

    Look at that, I can have the same exact complaint that you have. All Rangers know, through years of their own testing that , Mesmers Clones automatically retarget with neither any action on the Mesmers part, nor the target attacking the Clones after stealth. Like All-Seeing-Eye-Balls the Clones just resume attacking the Ranger. This has been my general experience as well, but I don't go to the forums to ask for nerfs on Mesmer Clones Targeting.

    Unless I'm missing something, it pretty handily counters Any classes that have stealthed.

    It's flattering that you're mimicking my language. But the use is inapposite.

    Mesmer, the class of deception and trickery, relies heavily on detargets and stealths to briefly escape focus among clones (and in turn lacks defenses other professions rely more on). It is much more impactful that pets act as "permanent target beacons" (to borrow @Solori.6025's term), effectively bypassing Mesmer's signature defense: deception. When a Ranger or a Thief stealths or detargets, there's no element of "which one's the real player?" They can be immediately retargeted by their opponent anyway because there's only one of them.

    With Mesmers, for AIs to 100% always retarget the real player following detarget, breaks one of Mesmer's basic profession mechanics. AIs act as a big huge sign telling their owner: "This one! This one's the real Mesmer!" As a Ranger, when the enemy Mesmer stealths/breaks target, just wait until your pet zeros in on one of the "clones." That's the real one.

    Basically, even if all AIs automatically retarget, this behavior is much more detrimental to the Mesmer playstyle than to any other spec with stealth or detargets.

    Not to mention this:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:
    Lots of words that make no sense and are irrelevant

    So clones are so dangerous? Or you mean shatter or phantasms? If you are stealthed shatters self explode on the spot, phantasm either self destruct or attack anything that nearby and dont wait until the main target come out of stealth and thats been forever. Is ranger pet suddenly dies to heart attack if mesmer goes stealth? I dont think so

    .

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:
    The bat swings for everyone at some time. Over a period of almost 7 years, this has became apparently clear.

    Indeed. It has already swung for Mesmers for over a year. But other specs are long past due, including SLB. :smile:

    By your public admission you've played the game a little over a year.
    You're saying that Mesmers have been in a bad place the whole year in Ranked PvP. Sure thing, believe whatever you like.

    Stealth for Mesmers is the same as stealth for Rangers.
    Clones attack after stealth
    Ranger pet attacks after stealth.
    But mesmers deserve special coding because of Lore....
    Every class could claim that, for every specialization. Reality check, complete coding overhall isn't going to happen for stealth o

    You are literally asking for special treatment and it has nothing to do with Rangers Pets or Soulbeast. Poor mesmers :(

    @praqtos.9035
    You didn't understand what I was saying, but you replied to me anyways...ok.

    mhm, ok, sure, whatever you say, no after you, I insist, no really, please, be my guest,

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 10, 2019

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:
    @praqtos.9035
    You didn't understand what I was saying, but you replied to me anyways...ok.

    I did. You wanted to compare clones and pets as they go after re-stealthed target?
    Why wont I mention it doesnt beak your class as it does for the mesmer? Unleash pet range is like 1900 range when clones and phantasms die on 1200 ?
    Its easy to understand mesmer player frustration because how unfair it is that ranger dont have to do anything to find real one, that is the most important part what player must do.

    Clones attack after stealth
    Ranger pet attacks after stealth.
    But mesmers deserve special coding because of Lore....

    Mesmer mechanics that being screwed because of stealth deserve a special coding for sure.

  • bOTEB.1573bOTEB.1573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 10, 2019

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:
    If the gimmick SLB build is not viable in high tiers, then those players won't miss it (like Shadowpass).

    You know you can't tell who will miss it or who won't. Maybe there are higher tier players who are trying to play soulbeast but they find it difficult because it is not viable there.

    The fact that it's so easy to "noob stomp" with such a build within the vast majority of the playerbase is unhealthy. That's why I don't care if it's not used at the top.

    The fact that it's so easy to "noob stomp" with such build makes it not UNHEALTHY but L2P issue, the keyword here is NOOB.

    How many times do people have to point to even less egregious things that were also useless at the top, but got nerfed, before you accept that your spec is not entitled to special treatment?

    How many times do people have to point even more egregious things that were absolutely OP at the top, but didn't get nerfed, before you accept that SLB is not entitled to special treatment, but needs it because it is not viable?

    How many times do people have to tell you, across multiple threads, that balance is not made around the few at the top (nor should it be)?

    I can't stop laugh! Balance should and is made mostly around the top, where you can eliminate a little more the L2P issue. You suggest that we should balance the game around the noob tiers, where people don't even know what their skills are doing. Good job! Hahaha, WOW!

    We know this because we've seen it. With multiple builds that were nerfed not because they were dominating the top (they weren't), but because they were unhealthy for the game.

    You didn't see anything. You probably started playing PvP 2017, 2018 maybe? Tell me what have you seen because I can tell you countless of examples where we see the nerfs based on dominating the top.

    Literally stop going around saying SLB is weak/not viable just because it doesn't have top-tier rep (which isn't even true as some have shown).

    As long as there are people that are "crying" about unnecessary nerfs that would directly affect my gameplay, I will go around and say the truth, supported with facts and logic.
    By the way, are you saying now that the SLB is ok even in top tiers? xD

    Just stop with the propaganda already.

    What exactly is misleading in my point of view? Is the SLB overperforming at top tiers? People, across multiple threads, told you already that it is very far from overperforming (several times), yet you can't accept it.

    P.S. Stop using interventions and ignore the opinion of those that do not agree with you - they are many and you look silly by doing so. For example, I know that there are people who agree with you but you have to realize that there are people that agree with me. Ignoring them and suggesting that I am the only one defending soulbeast is just ridiculous. If you are going to lie about the facts across multiple threads and just wasting everyone's time, I suggest you to find another hobby, because being a person who makes a deliberately offensive or provocative online post isn't pleasant for the rest of us. Either show some logic or evidence or stop using your misleading opinion as hard data, supported by facts.

    Wishlist:
    Everything that kills me should be nerfed
    Remove all time gates - I play more than some people yet I receive the same rewards per day/week (PvP/WvW tickets etc)
    ANET developments/events and everything else should be in a schedule with the time I play

  • @EnderzShadow.2506 said:

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

    1. Not true. Pet automatically retarget on real mesmer as soon you he lose stealth and ignore clones, pet always know who is real mesmer.

    It is true. I highly doubt every ranger is instasighted me among all clones and gave it an order to attack me,especially behind I'm behind a pillar

    Maybe something that can be tested?

    Found random theif, ordered pet to attack him, he goes stealth,pet attack random ppl, thief lose stealth, pet goes to attack thief without me doing anything. The same happened with a memser: he spawned 3 clones,I told pet to attack mesmer,after he lost stealth pet rushed to attack real one. Is this dude really play ranger as main ? I noticed this behaviour loooooooooooooooooooooong ago

    That's because you have your pet set to Guard. This means your pet will attack anyone you attack or foes that attack you. However, this does not mean the pet tracks through stealth. Instead, it means you hit the pet before your clones did after stealthing.

    This setting is bad because it will keep running towards AoEs even after being called back by the player. Good rangers keep their pets on Avoid Combat for better pet control.

    You're misinformed and ignorant. Yes, I am a ranger main.

    So me and a guildie just tested this.

    1. When you set your pet to attack. No matter if you stealth OR detarget the pet will retarget you instantly. I wasn't sure if that had changed since last this was mentioned as I thought this was just a feature rangers enjoyed. The ability for a pet to track a target after they stealth OR drop target is still present. The pet is basically a permanent target beacon. This was tested in both the guild hall and Spvp arena.

    2. Smoke Assault does in fact drop target. ( this was tested exclusively in the GH arena) I never honestly noticed this because the skill drops you in melee range. But yea. It is an undocumented detarget and probably a bug.

    Thanks for testing it. Praqtos did as well, with both Mes and Thief, and found the pet automatically retargated with neither any action on the ranger's part, nor the target attacking the pet after stealth. Like an all-seeing-eye the pet just resumes attacking the real player. This has been my general experience as well, which is one reason why I'm given to griping about ranger pets. Unless I'm missing something, it pretty handily counters all of Mes's stealth and detargeting.

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    Smoke Assault is 100% a detarget even if the skill tool tip doesn't list that fact.

    "Smoke Assault (soulbeast): Conceal yourself and lash out at nearby foes. Gain might each time you damage a foe."

    I think the detarget is inherent to the stealth, like any other stealth.

    TLDR Clones do the same thing that Ranger pets do after a stealth.
    Complaints about Mesmers on the forums did not cause the nerf.

    You have no way of knowing this. But if one were to speculate, it's hard to imagine that months on end of multiple "mesmer OP" threads a day which culminated in a super thread of merged threads, had no effect whatsoever on the nerfs that followed.

    Your 'complaint' will not cause a nerf.

    You have no way of knowing this.

    So you think it's unfair that the Ranger pet will retarget and attack a mesmer, with clones around, after they unstealth?
    It happens the same way for a Ranger fighting a Mesmer. Ranger Stealths, while clones are up and as soon as the Ranger is unstealthed, behind a pillar, completely breaking any line of site or targetability.

    Look at that, I can have the same exact complaint that you have. All Rangers know, through years of their own testing that , Mesmers Clones automatically retarget with neither any action on the Mesmers part, nor the target attacking the Clones after stealth. Like All-Seeing-Eye-Balls the Clones just resume attacking the Ranger. This has been my general experience as well, but I don't go to the forums to ask for nerfs on Mesmer Clones Targeting.

    Unless I'm missing something, it pretty handily counters Any classes that have stealthed.

    It's flattering that you're mimicking my language. But the use is inapposite.

    Mesmer, the class of deception and trickery, relies heavily on detargets and stealths to briefly escape focus among clones (and in turn lacks defenses other professions rely more on). It is much more impactful that pets act as "permanent target beacons" (to borrow @Solori.6025's term), effectively bypassing Mesmer's signature defense: deception. When a Ranger or a Thief stealths or detargets, there's no element of "which one's the real player?" They can be immediately retargeted by their opponent anyway because there's only one of them.

    With Mesmers, for AIs to 100% always retarget the real player following detarget, breaks one of Mesmer's basic profession mechanics. AIs act as a big huge sign telling their owner: "This one! This one's the real Mesmer!" As a Ranger, when the enemy Mesmer stealths/breaks target, just wait until your pet zeros in on one of the "clones." That's the real one.

    Basically, even if all AIs automatically retarget, this behavior is much more detrimental to the Mesmer playstyle than to any other spec with stealth or detargets.

    Not to mention this:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:
    Lots of words that make no sense and are irrelevant

    So clones are so dangerous? Or you mean shatter or phantasms? If you are stealthed shatters self explode on the spot, phantasm either self destruct or attack anything that nearby and dont wait until the main target come out of stealth and thats been forever. Is ranger pet suddenly dies to heart attack if mesmer goes stealth? I dont think so

    .

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:
    The bat swings for everyone at some time. Over a period of almost 7 years, this has became apparently clear.

    Indeed. It has already swung for Mesmers for over a year. But other specs are long past due, including SLB. :smile:

    By your public admission you've played the game a little over a year.
    You're saying that Mesmers have been in a bad place the whole year in Ranked PvP.

    When did I say this? Really not sure what you're getting at other than trying the usual "but mesmer" derail.

    Stealth for Mesmers is the same as stealth for Rangers.
    Clones attack after stealth
    Ranger pet attacks after stealth.

    You completely missed my point. I suggest you re-read what I said if you really want to discuss this.

    But mesmers deserve special coding because of Lore....

    Never said this.

    Every class could claim that, for every specialization. Reality check, complete coding overhall isn't going to happen for stealth o

    Never asked for one.

    You are literally asking for special treatment and it has nothing to do with Rangers Pets or Soulbeast. Poor mesmers :(

    No, I'm not.

  • @bOTEB.1573 said:
    P.S. Stop using interventions and ignore the opinion of those that do not agree with you - they are many and you look silly by doing so.

    You should really heed your own advice.

    For example, I know that there are people who agree with you but you have to realize that there are people that agree with me. Ignoring them and suggesting that I am the only one defending soulbeast is just ridiculous.

    From what I've seen in this and other discussions, there are far more that think SLB needs nerfs (my opinion) than needs buffs (your opinion).

  • EnderzShadow.2506EnderzShadow.2506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:
    @praqtos.9035
    You didn't understand what I was saying, but you replied to me anyways...ok.

    I did. You wanted to compare clones and pets as they go after re-stealthed target?
    Why wont I mention it doesnt beak your class as it does for the mesmer? Unleash pet range is like 1900 range when clones and phantasms die on 1200 ?
    Its easy to understand mesmer player frustration because how unfair it is that ranger dont have to do anything to find real one, that is the most important part what player must do.

    Clones attack after stealth
    Ranger pet attacks after stealth.
    But mesmers deserve special coding because of Lore....

    Mesmer mechanics that being screwed because of stealth deserve a special coding for sure.

    I kindly suggest both of you start a thread in the Ranger forum, asking Rangers what they think about their pets.

    @praqtos.9035 My comments came from this paragraph,
    "Praqtos did as well, with both Mes and Thief, and found the pet automatically retargated with neither any action on the ranger's part, nor the target attacking the pet after stealth. Like an all-seeing-eye the pet just resumes attacking the real player. This has been my general experience as well, which is one reason why I'm given to griping about ranger pets. Unless I'm missing something, it pretty handily counters all of Mes's stealth and detargeting."- @Twilight Tempest.7584

    What do you want twilight? You said a Ranger pet handily counters all of Mes's stealth and detargeting. So what do you want for Mes?
    If you want it changed so that a Rangers pet doesn't attack Mesmers after stealth, then that is asking for something special for your class only.

    And Praqtos, from that paragraph, I see this, "it's not fair that a Ranger Pet retargets me after stealth."
    Mesmers clones do the same thing.

    the rest you mention about the range of a Ranger pet and the range of Mesmers clones, apples and oranges.
    It's class differences.

    mhm, ok, sure, whatever you say, no after you, I insist, no really, please, be my guest,

  • @EnderzShadow.2506 said:
    What do you want twilight? You said a Ranger pet handily counters all of Mes's stealth and detargeting. So what do you want for Mes?
    If you want it changed so that a Rangers pet doesn't attack Mesmers after stealth, then that is asking for something special for your class only.

    I'm not asking for this change. Just pointing out that AI auto-retargeting affects Mesmers more than others because it directly counters their unique "hide among clones" profession concept.

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 10, 2019

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:
    And Praqtos, from that paragraph, I see this, "it's not fair that a Ranger Pet retargets me after stealth."
    Mesmers clones do the same thing.

    Clones yada yada. Clones with 0 damage scares you that much? Or how does this affect any other class other than mesmer, its the only mesmer survivability depends how fast you find the real one.
    While I dont want to take unnecessary hits from pocket rev or even worse, oneshotting Bambi. Exposing mesmer to the ranger player that must locate real one himself,thats his job,not the AI should do it for him.

    the rest you mention about the range of a Ranger pet and the range of Mesmers clones, apples and oranges.
    It's class differences.

    Its not class differences, its how poorly thought and made clones/phantasms/shatters and their behaviour when someone goes stealth. But thats you started to compare clones and pets.

    I kindly suggest both of you start a thread in the Ranger forum, asking Rangers what they think about their pets.

    You want me to ask rangers what they think about pets? Ask mesmers what they think about phantasms, lets laugh together !

  • EnderzShadow.2506EnderzShadow.2506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

    1. Not true. Pet automatically retarget on real mesmer as soon you he lose stealth and ignore clones, pet always know who is real mesmer.

    It is true. I highly doubt every ranger is instasighted me among all clones and gave it an order to attack me,especially behind I'm behind a pillar

    Maybe something that can be tested?

    Found random theif, ordered pet to attack him, he goes stealth,pet attack random ppl, thief lose stealth, pet goes to attack thief without me doing anything. The same happened with a memser: he spawned 3 clones,I told pet to attack mesmer,after he lost stealth pet rushed to attack real one. Is this dude really play ranger as main ? I noticed this behaviour loooooooooooooooooooooong ago

    That's because you have your pet set to Guard. This means your pet will attack anyone you attack or foes that attack you. However, this does not mean the pet tracks through stealth. Instead, it means you hit the pet before your clones did after stealthing.

    This setting is bad because it will keep running towards AoEs even after being called back by the player. Good rangers keep their pets on Avoid Combat for better pet control.

    You're misinformed and ignorant. Yes, I am a ranger main.

    So me and a guildie just tested this.

    1. When you set your pet to attack. No matter if you stealth OR detarget the pet will retarget you instantly. I wasn't sure if that had changed since last this was mentioned as I thought this was just a feature rangers enjoyed. The ability for a pet to track a target after they stealth OR drop target is still present. The pet is basically a permanent target beacon. This was tested in both the guild hall and Spvp arena.

    2. Smoke Assault does in fact drop target. ( this was tested exclusively in the GH arena) I never honestly noticed this because the skill drops you in melee range. But yea. It is an undocumented detarget and probably a bug.

    Thanks for testing it. Praqtos did as well, with both Mes and Thief, and found the pet automatically retargated with neither any action on the ranger's part, nor the target attacking the pet after stealth. Like an all-seeing-eye the pet just resumes attacking the real player. This has been my general experience as well, which is one reason why I'm given to griping about ranger pets. Unless I'm missing something, it pretty handily counters all of Mes's stealth and detargeting.

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    Smoke Assault is 100% a detarget even if the skill tool tip doesn't list that fact.

    "Smoke Assault (soulbeast): Conceal yourself and lash out at nearby foes. Gain might each time you damage a foe."

    I think the detarget is inherent to the stealth, like any other stealth.

    TLDR Clones do the same thing that Ranger pets do after a stealth.
    Complaints about Mesmers on the forums did not cause the nerf.

    You have no way of knowing this. But if one were to speculate, it's hard to imagine that months on end of multiple "mesmer OP" threads a day which culminated in a super thread of merged threads, had no effect whatsoever on the nerfs that followed.

    Your 'complaint' will not cause a nerf.

    You have no way of knowing this.

    So you think it's unfair that the Ranger pet will retarget and attack a mesmer, with clones around, after they unstealth?
    It happens the same way for a Ranger fighting a Mesmer. Ranger Stealths, while clones are up and as soon as the Ranger is unstealthed, behind a pillar, completely breaking any line of site or targetability.

    Look at that, I can have the same exact complaint that you have. All Rangers know, through years of their own testing that , Mesmers Clones automatically retarget with neither any action on the Mesmers part, nor the target attacking the Clones after stealth. Like All-Seeing-Eye-Balls the Clones just resume attacking the Ranger. This has been my general experience as well, but I don't go to the forums to ask for nerfs on Mesmer Clones Targeting.

    Unless I'm missing something, it pretty handily counters Any classes that have stealthed.

    It's flattering that you're mimicking my language. But the use is inapposite.

    Mesmer, the class of deception and trickery, relies heavily on detargets and stealths to briefly escape focus among clones (and in turn lacks defenses other professions rely more on). It is much more impactful that pets act as "permanent target beacons" (to borrow @Solori.6025's term), effectively bypassing Mesmer's signature defense: deception. When a Ranger or a Thief stealths or detargets, there's no element of "which one's the real player?" They can be immediately retargeted by their opponent anyway because there's only one of them.

    With Mesmers, for AIs to 100% always retarget the real player following detarget, breaks one of Mesmer's basic profession mechanics. AIs act as a big huge sign telling their owner: "This one! This one's the real Mesmer!" As a Ranger, when the enemy Mesmer stealths/breaks target, just wait until your pet zeros in on one of the "clones." That's the real one.

    Basically, even if all AIs automatically retarget, this behavior is much more detrimental to the Mesmer playstyle than to any other spec with stealth or detargets.

    Not to mention this:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:
    Lots of words that make no sense and are irrelevant

    So clones are so dangerous? Or you mean shatter or phantasms? If you are stealthed shatters self explode on the spot, phantasm either self destruct or attack anything that nearby and dont wait until the main target come out of stealth and thats been forever. Is ranger pet suddenly dies to heart attack if mesmer goes stealth? I dont think so

    .

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:
    The bat swings for everyone at some time. Over a period of almost 7 years, this has became apparently clear.

    Indeed. It has already swung for Mesmers for over a year. But other specs are long past due, including SLB. :smile:

    By your public admission you've played the game a little over a year.
    You're saying that Mesmers have been in a bad place the whole year in Ranked PvP.

    When did I say this? Really not sure what you're getting at other than trying the usual "but mesmer" derail.

    Stealth for Mesmers is the same as stealth for Rangers.
    Clones attack after stealth
    Ranger pet attacks after stealth.

    You completely missed my point. I suggest you re-read what I said if you really want to discuss this.

    But mesmers deserve special coding because of Lore....

    Never said this.

    Every class could claim that, for every specialization. Reality check, complete coding overhall isn't going to happen for stealth o

    Never asked for one.

    You are literally asking for special treatment and it has nothing to do with Rangers Pets or Soulbeast. Poor mesmers :(

    No, I'm not.

    Funny, you didn't own up to how long you've been playing or even correct me.
    Has it even been a year?
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/59449/newish-player-thoughts-on-mesmer-op#latest
    November 2, 2018

    Some curious points you make, which you've already contradicted in this thread alone

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:
    GW2 is my first MMO, and I've only been playing since earlier this year. I've been reading a lot of the "mesmer OP, need nerf" threads and they've prompted me to make my first post. My first, and still main, character is a Mesmer. I had no clue what playing it would be like. I was simply drawn to the unique concept and pretty effects.
    I completely agree that mesmer in general can be challenging for inexperienced opponents or anyone who doesn't know how the class works. That's because the abilities are so unconventional. The class is unique to GW and one has to do some homework to see what it's about. This probably explains many of the "I tried mes for 5 mins and dominated, therefore it's OP" stories. Against those who don't know how to counter it, it takes no prisoners.

    But I'm certainly not about to get on the forums to accuse professions I know little about of being OP, let alone advocating nerfs.

    How long did it take for that to change?

    mhm, ok, sure, whatever you say, no after you, I insist, no really, please, be my guest,

  • bOTEB.1573bOTEB.1573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 10, 2019

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:
    From what I've seen in this and other discussions, there are far more that think SLB needs nerfs (my opinion) than needs buffs (your opinion).

    If you are satisfied with your internet connection do you send grateful letters/mails to your internet provider? It is more likely to call and write them if you are unsatisfied with it, no?
    It is only natural for the unsatisfied players to complain a lot more. Why would the players that are satisfied with their current position would waste their time here?
    This simply means that you can't judge which players are more based on a forum post.
    But here I am, again, trying to put some logic and facts which you won't agree with, because 2+2=7 ;)

    Wishlist:
    Everything that kills me should be nerfed
    Remove all time gates - I play more than some people yet I receive the same rewards per day/week (PvP/WvW tickets etc)
    ANET developments/events and everything else should be in a schedule with the time I play

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:
    From what I've seen in this and other discussions, there are far more that think SLB needs nerfs (my opinion) than needs buffs (your opinion).

    If you are satisfied with your internet connection do you send grateful letters/mails to your internet provider?

    Yes.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • bOTEB.1573bOTEB.1573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 10, 2019

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:
    From what I've seen in this and other discussions, there are far more that think SLB needs nerfs (my opinion) than needs buffs (your opinion).

    If you are satisfied with your internet connection do you send grateful letters/mails to your internet provider?

    Yes.

    Proof or it didn't happen.
    You are looking good with these answers, keep them, please - let everyone see ;)

    Wishlist:
    Everything that kills me should be nerfed
    Remove all time gates - I play more than some people yet I receive the same rewards per day/week (PvP/WvW tickets etc)
    ANET developments/events and everything else should be in a schedule with the time I play

  • EnderzShadow.2506EnderzShadow.2506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:
    And Praqtos, from that paragraph, I see this, "it's not fair that a Ranger Pet retargets me after stealth."
    Mesmers clones do the same thing.

    Clones yada yada. Clones with 0 damage scares you that much? Or how does this affect any other class other than mesmer, its the only mesmer survivability depends how fast you find the real one.
    While I dont want to take unnecessary hits from pocket rev or even worse, oneshotting Bambi. Exposing mesmer to the ranger player that must locate real one himself,thats his job,not the AI should do it for him.

    the rest you mention about the range of a Ranger pet and the range of Mesmers clones, apples and oranges.
    It's class differences.

    Its not class differences, its how poorly thought and made clones/phantasms/shatters and their behaviour when someone goes stealth. But thats you started to compare clones and pets.

    I kindly suggest both of you start a thread in the Ranger forum, asking Rangers what they think about their pets.

    You want me to ask rangers what they think about pets? Ask mesmers what they think about phantasms, lets laugh together !

    /cheers
    This is pointless.
    Everyone thinks their class is fine when it's overpowered.
    And as soon as a class isn't meta they think it's underpowered.

    mhm, ok, sure, whatever you say, no after you, I insist, no really, please, be my guest,

  • EnderzShadow.2506EnderzShadow.2506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:
    What do you want twilight? You said a Ranger pet handily counters all of Mes's stealth and detargeting. So what do you want for Mes?
    If you want it changed so that a Rangers pet doesn't attack Mesmers after stealth, then that is asking for something special for your class only.

    I'm not asking for this change. Just pointing out that AI auto-retargeting affects Mesmers more than others because it directly counters their unique "hide among clones" profession concept.

    Good, counters are good for the game.

    /Cheers

    mhm, ok, sure, whatever you say, no after you, I insist, no really, please, be my guest,

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:
    And Praqtos, from that paragraph, I see this, "it's not fair that a Ranger Pet retargets me after stealth."
    Mesmers clones do the same thing.

    Clones yada yada. Clones with 0 damage scares you that much? Or how does this affect any other class other than mesmer, its the only mesmer survivability depends how fast you find the real one.
    While I dont want to take unnecessary hits from pocket rev or even worse, oneshotting Bambi. Exposing mesmer to the ranger player that must locate real one himself,thats his job,not the AI should do it for him.

    the rest you mention about the range of a Ranger pet and the range of Mesmers clones, apples and oranges.
    It's class differences.

    Its not class differences, its how poorly thought and made clones/phantasms/shatters and their behaviour when someone goes stealth. But thats you started to compare clones and pets.

    I kindly suggest both of you start a thread in the Ranger forum, asking Rangers what they think about their pets.

    You want me to ask rangers what they think about pets? Ask mesmers what they think about phantasms, lets laugh together !

    /cheers
    This is pointless.

    I agree, a lost cause.

    Everyone thinks their class is fine when it's overpowered.

    You have the point here, I would put so many people under this category!

    And as soon as a class isn't meta they think it's underpowered.

    Except this is true for the most classes/builds

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