So....Anet's professions balance patches in a nutshell? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

So....Anet's professions balance patches in a nutshell?

Ultramex.1506Ultramex.1506 Member ✭✭✭
edited May 19, 2019 in Professions

I'm not a competitive type so i'm not sure if Anet's changes to professions skills/mechanic are good or bad but some changes i really like such as banner and gyro. But i wanted to know the typical behavior of Anet when it come to balance and these are how i see it, correct me if i'm wrong

  • Any skill that work as intended but too effective will get nerfed and became useless?
  • Skills that people have asked to nerf are instead either buffed or ignored? Or Vice versa
  • Changing profession mechanic with 50/50 chances of upsetting people (Daredevil's steal changed to Swipe with shorter range)?
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Comments

  • Ultramex.1506Ultramex.1506 Member ✭✭✭

    @serialkicker.5274 said:
    This is my first and only mmorpg that I have played more than 30 hours. I have come to conclusion that developers, probably goes for all mmos, don't even want to balance the game. It's probably intentionally that they put in bunch of random changes in order to keep things cough interesting and forcing people to keep adapting, grinding new gear, changing builds, switching classes and so on, in order to give them something to do and not quit the game 2 days after new episode release.
    I can't find any other explanation on how it would otherwise be possible to not be able to balance bunch of skills in 6 years, changing same skills 50x in over the years and still have unbalanced game.
    It doesn't even feel like my character is progressing and getting better, because same skill changes so much and so many times, it doesn't even feel like my character can control his abilities.

    That's sound logical

  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭

    Balanced RPGs aren't fun, everything should be overpowered(except turrets/pets/scrapper)

  • LolLookAtMyAP.8394LolLookAtMyAP.8394 Member ✭✭✭

    Thanos would be displeased for sure.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    What are you guys talking about? Balance is great in this game.
    Tanky high sustain classes keep getting buffed burst damage and sustain and glassy classes keep getting dps nerfs
    Cant get anymore balanced than that lol

  • Auburner.6945Auburner.6945 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 17, 2019

    I mean, if you change Fire Shield to Fire Aura and have an e-spec completely shut down for 21 days because traits weren't set to proc with the new name, I guess you already know my answer for the rest.

    Killing fire with fire, that's what I am seeing, but as far as I remember, fire wasn't in the extinguishing triangle. While adding few water drops to the sea to make it less salty, but does it? And when things get out of hand, you let chaos consume itself before you drop the hammer and now 'order' rules for a few more centuries, forgetting there once was a source of chaos.

    Middle ground? What's that?

    Pull the strings. Watch them dance.

  • Buran.3796Buran.3796 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @serialkicker.5274 said:
    This is my first and only mmorpg that I have played more than 30 hours. I have come to conclusion that developers, probably goes for all mmos, don't even want to balance the game. It's probably intentionally that they put in bunch of random changes in order to keep things cough interesting and forcing people to keep adapting, grinding new gear, changing builds, switching classes and so on, in order to give them something to do and not quit the game 2 days after new episode release.

    Fortunately (fortunately?) some classes never change their viable build. You can back in time to any moment in the last 3.5 years and you will find the same Rev build (power Herald with Shiro/Glint and staff/sword) used in PvP, and essentially the same hammer build for WvW team fights.

  • ZeteCommander.4937ZeteCommander.4937 Member ✭✭✭

    PVP WvW balance of GW 2 is suitable for discussion in toilets

  • DemonSeed.3528DemonSeed.3528 Member ✭✭✭✭

    There is no real balance, it is a seasonal tide of adaptation treadmills. It's like "look what washed up on the beach" to see what either got buffed/nerfed. I'm way past complaining about it - for now I just try to see it in a different light, never ending challenges that I have to overcome. I have become the decrepid, old, cynical adventurer. Actually, nah, I'm more like the look in my avatar right now XD

  • Aigleborgne.2981Aigleborgne.2981 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    • There are still tooltips to fix even after 6 years and a half.

    LOL, you made my day! I am thinking that same thing each time I read a patch notes. Some of them even have more tooltip changes than real changes. Seriously, there would be plenty of skills/traits to balance but it seems tooltips have a greater priority :anguished:
    I suppose they are more focus on new stuff than balance. Without any communication with players, I can't see any positive outcome.

  • Dirame.8521Dirame.8521 Member ✭✭
    edited May 24, 2019

    @otto.5684 said:
    All condi builds, except scourge, are not PvP viable.
    Most support builds except FB are not PvP viable.
    Overall, instead of having elites being a sidegrade, they are a complete upgrade. Core was supposed to fulfill all three roles. Most classes can only play 1-2 roles max, even with 2 elites.

    Game is balanced in open world PvE. Group PvE, limited builds. PvP, where balance is most important, vast majority of builds do not work at all.

    Anet devs constantly make explanations for changes that are completely out of sync with the changes results. There are changes that clearly indicate however made them never played that class before or have an idea how it the class works.

    If there is one thing I have come to find from playing MMOs all these years, it's that the players are the ones who don't know how to balance.

    When a build is powerful, instead of trying to figure out another set-up to counter it, they just all jump on the same bandwagon and then complain that the build is OP.
    Seen it happen so many times. And it hasn't stopped.
    (That being said, Mirage WAS pretty stupidly OP. I admit that.)

  • getalifeturd.8139getalifeturd.8139 Member ✭✭✭

    Extreme roles are bad because it becomes a counter vs counter battle. If somebody is running full zerker damage set then you need to either be zerker too or bunker up or condition them. The damage mitigation just isn’t enough to outlast the dps in this game. This means the fights don’t last very long unless you’re in a huge zerg (wvw) but even then pro guilds will wipe pugs every time.

    Also base stats like toughness and health are different across professions. Stability, condition removal, healing, crowd control and dps is unevenly spread across them too. This means that some professions are more suited to “tank” roles. While others are more suited to “condition spam”. Then there are others suited to “zerker” burst dps.

    This makes the game very difficult to balance because it is unbalanced to begin with. While yes it is true every profession can be any role some are more suited to it than others. The game can not be balanced except by numbers it seems.

    There is many lessons to be taken from gw1 such as all professions having the same base health. Also healing being much more effective than it currently is. Then the pvp in this game might be more than just spamming of conditions and dps. There would be a true counter rather than just damage avoidance.

    I think the biggest problem is balancing for different skill levels. Because some players have better reflexes or more experience playing a profession. This means that it is not even the professions that are unbalanced but the actual players themselves.

    So what I have seen Arenanet do is make very easy builds like condition bunkers that everyone can use. Then there’s zerker thieves, elementalists, bunker guards, etc, that take a bit more skill. The main problem as discussed in Sirlin’s book is balancing for skill.

    This is very difficult and he said that by giving easier options that can work, but don’t work as well as something which requires more skill. That is balance and I think Arenanet know this and what we have is a game balanced for different skill levels.

    That seems to be the logical way of thinking about the metas of this game in pvp and wvw. And to me it does seem balanced and if people complain they simply need to “learn to play”. But that does not mean that builds that require much more skill should faceroll everybody either.

    So in conclusion Balance is very subjective but if you balance for different skill levels it becomes much easier. And that is why a game can not ever be truly balanced. Because players and people have so many different skill levels.

    The way we experience competition is by winning or losing. But also I understand that by being too subjective in our opinions of balance is bad feedback. By making the pvp combat challenging but also not too hard to learn creates a diverse pvp community.

    The problem is when the game is objectively balanced completely without any player feedback then it becomes very unpopular quickly. This is why Balance is subjective because players who pvp want to have fun which is highly subjective. This is just my opinions of course because I’m sure that general balance is much harder than it seems.

    Let's use the conquest meta as an example. We fight each other on small circles. And we have to hold these circles to win the game.

    It’s not just the power creep that is the reason these 1-shot classes are the best. It’s simply the fact that everything else that could counter the Conquest Meta has been nerfed by Arenanet to make way for Esports.

    Instead of a power based twitch reaction time meta we have an abundance of 1-shot DPS and passive gameplay. We have area of effect skills ticking away on a point. We have Bunker Specs putting out enough damage to kill players.

    Why is this? Because Arenanet has removed tanky amulets and replaced active damage mitigation with passive invulnerabilities. Now instead of dodging power based attacks with well timed evades we have classes running max 1-shot DPS.

    These 1-shot DPS classes are dominating because other classes cannot bring enough sustain to compete with them. They are kings of DPS and 1-shots at the same time with the best ability to stack boons.

    You want to know why this game isn’t an ESport Arenanet? Because you catered too much to casuals and made this game too simple. If we had Monks they at least could heal the other classes without sustain directly instead of them slowly dying to AOE and conditions.

    I call this game Gank Wars 2 and there’s a simple reason why. Immobilise stacking, Stun/Daze chaining and CC spam is neverending and only certain classes have enough Stability or condition removals to escape.

    There is a general lack of sustain and too much dps (both conditions and power). What is the counter to DPS? Nothing…but in GuildWars 1 it was a Monk and that is why this game lacks depth. Dodge rolls aren’t a replacement for healing and protection that a monk class would offer.

    I find it funny when people assume GW1 was only theorycrafting builds and counters. The combat was just as if not more active than GW2. The fact is it had interrupts and hexes (based around punishing enemy for spamming). Proper protection and healing spells (able to almost full heal from a spike of dps). Along with Conditions, Melee and kiting, Aoes, block skills/spells and teleports. Also I probably need to mention you couldn’t just spam skills either. They were reliant on energy which you had a supply of and when you ran out it had to regenerate.

    ^ There’s an example of what is possible with monks. Also here’s a list of monk spells in gw1: “Monks…with their unparalleled gift for keeping their allies alive” http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/List_of_monk_skills

    Just some ideas and my opinion about the different builds. Since the meta seems to be either extreme conditions bunker or burst spike with not much room in the middle. I’m hoping healing support can be made more viable instead of people just seeing green numbers but not getting any loot.

    Bunker and support do very little damage unless they’re a hybrid to do conditions but you generally need some healing power to be a good support player.

    Arenanet are buffing support healing and I am glad for it. Problem is most of the full zerker burst spike damage just cannot be outhealed. There’s not much you can do to mitigate the damage either apart from your main heal, dodges, blocks, invulns and evades.

    A full zerker amulet player will die in a couple of hits yet can 1-shot other players, while a full on bunker such as a guardian can tank hits from multiple players. Also the condition guys in the middle cant really be blamed either since he needs to tank and do some dps through the toughness of the bunkers.

    Even Monks can die and be pressured from burst damage as seen in the video but most importantly it gives a real counter to spamming of dps (either conditions or power damage). Right now it’s just a race to see who can spam and avoid the most damage to win hence we have all these “passive” condition builds and burst spikes that rely on being invulnerable.

    Boons run out and can be stripped not to mention if the player isn’t in bunker gear they won’t be enough usually unless they have a good amount of toughness. Healing and condition removal is what keeps you alive in an actual fight and it seems to only work in wvw with lots of players running support.

    Evades/dodges, condition removal, block and invulnerable skills all have cooldowns meanwhile the damage just keeps coming from autoattacks and aoes. This is why I think this game would benefit from having a monk, to counter the insane burst damage.

    What I want simply is a game with monks like gw1 had where fights can actually last longer than a couple of minutes. But apparently Arenanet decided that healers are boring and everyone should just kill each other with dps. Healing and Damage Mitigation needs a real buff if this game wants to have any chance at being competitive and balanced.

    Fights lasting longer hones skills and teamwork with players. The best example I can use in gw2 is wvw where there is enough support and the aoe limit of 5 prevents players being bursted down instantly if they make a mistake. The stacking zerg meta is there for a reason and all zerker and condition damage does is make it even more needed.

    Remember gw1 we had so many skills and different builds and they could all be used because they countered each other. But that didn’t mean that some builds weren’t better than others for certain things. There is too many players complaining that 1 build is too powerful but in my opinion its all based on skill level. Burst can 1-shot bunker or condis but they have more defense making it harder.

    Do you guys want a game with no “Overpowered” skills and everything the same and boring? Half the fun of games is to have fun and in gw1 I sure had fun in pve with my shadow form tank lol. So in all honesty maybe try different classes more and try to learn all the different skills and how they can be countered. There is no reason for nerfs because you guys refuse to adapt to the meta.

    I played gw1 had fun but this combat system is more dynamic being able to actively dodge and every class having their own heals. I just get bored of the whole dps wins everything while damage mitigation and healing is not even considered. I think gw2 lacks depth and with a monk it could easily have it.

    Maybe I’m just the type of player that likes when I’m needed such as Shadow Form tanks in gw1. There are many other players that I think want to be able to feel like they can help the party and be useful instead of just another player. This is why I love healing and damage mitigation and tanking is so fun.

    I truly believe Thief's burst meta with bunker Guardian’s tankiness and Warrior’s Healing Signet and Revenant's invuln balance each other out. Also Engineer’s, Necromancer's and Elementalist’s Aoe damage controls conquest points. Meanwhile Ranger's pets and long distance damage can take out these targets from a distance. Mesmer’s spamming of clones also allows them to easily confuse an enemy long enough for them to burst them down. This is truly the best meta we can get and if you don’t like it experiment with builds and kill the passive no skill builds as you call them.

    If some builds don’t have a counter then reroll to them since they’re obviously so overpowered and never die. Maybe try playing as a team instead of trying to 1v1 everything. Burst/zerker will die quickly that’s a fact. Would you prefer the meta to be bunkers and conditions only?

    This is the state of the meta and Arenanet will not change it because it attracts the most players. Do you think that there is more skill to playing your build and everything else is cheese? This is called not playing to win and making excuses.

    Everybody plays for or against a profession and thinks it is Overpowered. Well I am simply going to say that is your opinion. There is no balance when everything is “overpowered”.

    Arenanet will not listen to your complaints obviously biased against certain professions. Because all you want is for them to be nerfed and your own profession buffed. I will link “Playing to win” by Sirlin now.

    http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub

  • Ultramex.1506Ultramex.1506 Member ✭✭✭

    @getalifeturd.8139 said:
    Extreme roles are bad because it becomes a counter vs counter battle. If somebody is running full zerker damage set then you need to either be zerker too or bunker up or condition them. The damage mitigation just isn’t enough to outlast the dps in this game. This means the fights don’t last very long unless you’re in a huge zerg (wvw) but even then pro guilds will wipe pugs every time.

    http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub

    Annnnndddd i've read from start to finish

  • Auburner.6945Auburner.6945 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dirame.8521 said:

    To both you lovely gentlemen. I have done this dance, this exact topic, this exact discussion too many times. It always ends the same. The proof is in my experience with this specific playerbase.
    Riot games, fortunately for them, has a large playerbase of COMPETITIVE PLAYERS whilst GW2 just doesn't have that large a playerbase of COMPETITIVE PLAYERS. So Riot has a better chance of balancing their game properly than GW2 does.

    Competitive players will always try the most insane 1,000,000 iQ builds whilst others will just follow. GW2 is largely made up of more followers than innovators. This is why the situation we always have is people complaining more than they innovate.

    When people complained about Staff Evasion thief, Necros could've run spectral Wall and Guardians could've used their rings to mess them up but very few (if any) did, when people complained about Boon spam Mesmers, Necros could have run more boon corruption skills but did they? When people complained about Dragonhunter, all those players could have run some sort of reflect to annoy them. But in each case, instead of countering it, many people just played those same classes they called OP, making the situation look worse than it actually was.

    In each case in the complaining meta, there has always been a counter that people just completely did not want to utilize because they were too rigid in their thinking.(apart from Mirage. Mirage was definitely OP) And if most players would just step outside the box of "meta builds" for about 2 seconds, they would find a myriad of builds ranging from hilarious to high-skilled.

    Well, I kind of agree, the idea of what a hard counter means and how I barely see it in this game, but here is a difference between MOBAs allowing one player to play many characters while in MMOs there is a lack of such to let players do so. For example, you can fill in the middle lane in a MOBA, there are 20+ to play in mid, 4-5 of them are meta with which your selection pool rotates around and you don't focus much on playing the champion, but rather on playing the game, which isn't the case in GW2, where some classes are harder to master than others even if those others are the hard counters to such meta... to solve this, at least 2-3 of the classes should have a stumbling block to a certain meta with which the class that has such block will become meta, even if it was 1 in a squad of 50 (Veil bot is a good example) and given that they are 2-3 classes with this ability, it's easier to get into the hard counter idea, but that's not always the case - sometimes there are no counters, other times it's a counter that not all players can play given their playstyle. Now let's say this issue of the lack of counters didn't exist, then I would get my 70%ish agree to a 100% agree as the resources exist, leaving the it to the players to decide - this is pretty clear as of Chrono vs Alacrigade/Quickbrand meta, though the duo is considered better in certain scenarios than 2 Chronos as of now, Chrono still rules, and thus Chrono shouldn't see nerfs anymore as a Boonmancer.

    Another point would be the prolonged periods of stale metas, like how long Staff Weaver was top DPS by miles away, like Firebrand that's a must-have pick in WvW, like Chrono's 3+ years of ruling the PvE meta, etc. The way of which the meta barely changes causes frustration, which leads to many complaints, be it right or wrong. Though I am not justifying the act of putting out wrong ones, but the one with the power should also be held responsible if they followed the wrong that were mainly caused by the lack of change, and there has been classes' playstyles that got thrown out of the meta/viable zone.

    Since the game has PvX, when both PvE and PvP/WvW meet, the probability of incorrect changes/complaints would go higher, be it only 1 'X', this wouldn't have existed, yet the weight shouldn't always lie on the player's shoulder but on the ones in charge too, and if the ones in charge would do what's actually right or listen to the good ones, then those with incorrect suggestions would surely agree when things go live.

    Pull the strings. Watch them dance.

  • Auburner.6945Auburner.6945 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 25, 2019

    @Ensign.2189 said:

    This is absolutely true, but the problem is that the players who are in the know about the impact of any particular change are not the same players from patch to patch or change to change. A balance team can in no way out-think a player base of thousands; collectively the players know a lot more than a few people working on balance!

    The problem of course is how to distinguish feedback from those in the know from those who are clueless in real time. The majority are usually not right, after all, and bandwagons are formed by those who are persuasive, not necessarily those who are right.

    I mean, it falls on the balance team to come out with many polls before the patches drop, and discuss what would happen if such change occurred, while for the playerbase to look at how to fix the over/under-powered class rather than creating a beast or obliterating them.

    The devs should be more open with why the meta is as such and what should be done to fix , so the idea won't come as of 5 minds, but 5 + the players , but that's not a thing.

    My point is that not just one side is to hold account, but both.

    And in the end, it's a normal discussion not a heated one, it's a game we speaking of, that raging when fixing means nothing.

    Pull the strings. Watch them dance.

  • Ensign.2189Ensign.2189 Member ✭✭✭

    @Auburner.6945 said:
    I mean, it falls on the balance team to come out with many polls before the patches drop, and discuss what would happen if such change occurred, while for the playerbase to look at how to fix the over/under-powered class rather than creating a beast or obliterating them.

    I don't know that polls would be all that useful. The median respondent has pretty poor understanding of balance, and having them vote on changes wouldn't really tell you a whole lot.

    Similarly asking the playerbase how to fix a balance issue isn't going to get you a whole lot. Outside of very simple numeric changes (which often aren't even easy to identify!) players generally have little sense of how balance changes fit affect interactions between characters and for into the game as a whole. Like players suggesting balance changes, there are often a couple valuable nuggets to work with if you sort through all the slag.

    I do think A.Net would benefit from being more transparent earlier in the process. The place players are most useful is in catching when a change is going to miss the mark badly. That is the main benefit of a PBE - not that players can play on it, but that players can see changes very early on and keep you from going off the rails.

    The devs should be more open with why the meta is as such and what should be done to fix , so the idea won't come as of 5 minds, but 5 + the players , but that's not a thing.

    We would definitely benefit a lot from statements of vision for the different parts of the game. While I think they have done a good job of getting balance to a pretty good place for raids, when it comes to sPvP or especially WvW it is really unclear kitten they are trying to accomplish. sPvP in particular has been running in circles since they got skill splits, playing whack a mile with whatever people complain about a given season but not altering any fundamentals.

  • Dirame.8521Dirame.8521 Member ✭✭
    edited May 26, 2019

    @otto.5684 said:
    To summarize:

    GW2 player base is bad, unintelligent and unskilled, but every other game players base are the opposite.
    There are so many hidden meta builds but no one uses them, cuz people are dumb.
    Anet devs wisdom is beyond question.

    Get the kitten out of here.

    Not what I am saying at all. Anet makes mistakes. Mirage. Berserker Skull Grind Nerfs. Nerfing out confusion from the arms line (or wherever they removed it). Not making Medkit worth using for engies. Hyping Spvp at launch but not having anything solid, instead of just allowing it to develop organically (which is how GW1 developed it's PvP scene) and a host of other mistakes.

    That said, to absolve the playerbase of any blame, would also be a mistake. There ARE many good builds that people just don't use. This is the truth.

    Just to emphasize my point in the whole idea of Dev vs Playerbase thing. I just used the example of Teldo and the Engie in a different topic. The thing is, before Teldo played engie on stream in a tournament setting, Engie was the worst class that no one played. But as soon as people saw Teldo 2v1ing people with is bomb kit build at the time... woaw... Engies were EVERYWHERE!!! But before that, do you know how many "ENGIE IS THE WERST" threads there were?

    But let me ask you a question; do you think Bomb kit is viable today?

  • dceptaconroy.7928dceptaconroy.7928 Member ✭✭✭

    Balance patch day - Hope for the best expect the worst. Correction..abandon hope expect the worst. Understand they rotate nerf ferocity to encourage extended play through class diversity and bandwagon hoppers get some action.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @dceptaconroy.7928 said:
    Balance patch day - Hope for the best expect the worst. Correction..abandon hope expect the worst. Understand they rotate nerf ferocity to encourage extended play through class diversity and bandwagon hoppers get some action.

    Was it confirmed any balance changes were being made? Last one had a preview for build theory crafting. The patch if there is one will prob be bug fixes etc.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @dceptaconroy.7928 said:
    Balance patch day - Hope for the best expect the worst. Correction..abandon hope expect the worst. Understand they rotate nerf ferocity to encourage extended play through class diversity and bandwagon hoppers get some action.

    I do not think there will be a patch today, cuz yesterday was a holiday. Maybe next week, but There was no word about it either.

  • dceptaconroy.7928dceptaconroy.7928 Member ✭✭✭

    I wasn't saying there was going to be a balance patch, just rather what to expect. I wouldn't expect one any time soon.

  • bluri.2653bluri.2653 Member ✭✭✭

    Theres one thing that really frustrates me and that is following: Once they do a change and realizes it might not have been the best it takes way too long (if ever) to revert the change, they just never go back on these things which is frustrating. Or other things like "one spec is overperforming, lets nerf the core profession!" these things is just a big no no

    www.twitch.tv/sindrener - Rank 55 Dragons/Orange Logo/Team Aggression

  • bOTEB.1573bOTEB.1573 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ultramex.1506 said:

    • Skills that people have asked to nerf are instead either buffed or ignored? Or Vice versa
    • Changing profession mechanic with 50/50 chances of upsetting people (Daredevil's steal changed to Swipe with shorter range)?

    Umm yeah, because players are not specialized in balancing + the build/profession favoritism is real, you know? All 12 years old players want their favorite build/profession to be the strongest, but should ANET do it? These players demand it and they won't tolerate any other profession up there. Why should ANET listen to these people? I think you see it right and I hope you see it as the right behavior. Just because you don't like a change or it is upsetting you, doesn't mean it shouldn't happen.

    Wishlist:
    Everything that kills me should be nerfed
    Remove all time gates - I play more than some people yet I receive the same rewards per day/week (PvP/WvW tickets etc)
    ANET developments/events and everything else should be in a schedule with the time I play

  • Stalkingwolf.6035Stalkingwolf.6035 Member ✭✭✭

    @bluri.2653 said:
    Theres one thing that really frustrates me and that is following: Once they do a change and realizes it might not have been the best it takes way too long (if ever) to revert the change, they just never go back on these things which is frustrating. Or other things like "one spec is overperforming, lets nerf the core profession!" these things is just a big no no

    i think they have not enough time/manpower. Its not only class balance, its the entire game.
    balance is broken in every game aspect. features added that dont really work takes month or even years to get fixed.

    but you can still have fun in this game and its free.

    He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster

  • Solori.6025Solori.6025 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    I could be wrong but it really seems like the team that does the balancing lacks the experience and knowledge to properly balance each class. Yes perfect balance is impossible but the balance changes over last few years have been unacceptably poorly thought out and implemented. This is the balance teams job and they took on the responsibility so if that means playing each class in each game mode on a regular basis to get a firm grasp on its build states and how they interact and fit into each game mode than so be it. If they dont want to invest the time to do so than than arenet needs to find a team that will. Balance will always be poor unless the people doing the changes kno each class in and out and judging by the last few years this team doesn't just going by simple over sights that have happened let alone changes that have been poorly thought out impacting classes and their builds that were clearly not intended but occurred due to poorly thought our or rushed changes. We all have to do things and commit our time to things at our jobs we don't enjoy to perform our best at it,game devs are no different. It is also very frustrating when changes that clearly were rushed or have a far more reaching impact on a class than intended wont get reverted, I dont know if its embarrassment or the fact they think if they dont revert it and just bandaid fix it that the players will think it's intended. A company willing to admit their mistakes and make changes to properly resolve them will garnish far more respect and loyalty from its playerbase.

    facts and well said.

    Tingle my stingleberry

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 I think the balance changes in the end of HoT were solid. However, PoF started with many broken builds, yet Anet was so kitten slow to react. It took almost 6 month to nerf scourge, which was ridiculous at lunch.

    However, around end of last year almost every patch made the balance worse.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    most of the dislike with gw2 balance is ppl over reacting.
    the other bit is anet being incompetent, plain and simple.

    Te lazla otstra.
    nerf list

  • Ensign.2189Ensign.2189 Member ✭✭✭

    As much as you might want to lump game balance together you really have to break it out by mode, especially after the big structural changes that happened during the first sPvP seasons.

    For instance sPvP balance is...not good in no spall part because there have been too many cooks in the kitchen. Besides the balance team you've had community people and programmers pushing their own changes, so it should be no surprise that it is an incoherent mess. When everyone is involved, no one is responsible, and it shows.

    WvW has the opposite problem where there is only token attention, due in part to widespread disagreements about what the goals of WvW balance should even be and a status quo bias from the community.

    PvE balance is actually pretty good. There's a mix of objectives between raids, fractals, and open world but those are weighed pretty well against each other and there's more variety in these metas than there has ever been. Granted, PvE balance is way easier than competitive balance, but their main mode is in pretty good shape.

  • Skiravor.1257Skiravor.1257 Member ✭✭
    edited June 1, 2019

    This topic is the exact topic in every game since ever.

    edit: same with the answers lol

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 1, 2019

    @otto.5684 said:
    I think the balance changes in the end of HoT were solid.

    Lolwat. The reaper DC buff 8 months or so before PoF wrecked havoc on WvW and created the most toxic meta we have ever seen. It literally forced Anet to rebalance the entire game for more counters against condition damage and it still wasnt enough.

    Then when PoF was realeased, everyone dumped reaper for the superior scourge... And two weeks or so later Anet FINALLY nerfed the reaper. Really. When no one was playing it anymore. After 8 months.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @otto.5684 said:
    I think the balance changes in the end of HoT were solid.

    Lolwat. The reaper DC buff 8 months or so before PoF wrecked havoc on WvW and created the most toxic meta we have ever seen. It literally forced Anet to rebalance the entire game for more counters against condition damage and it still wasnt enough.

    Then when PoF was realeased, everyone dumped reaper for the superior scourge... And two weeks or so later Anet FINALLY nerfed the reaper. Really. When no one was playing it anymore. After 8 months.

    I was going primarily with sPvP. But which WvW meta was not extremely toxic 😝? It is always spam fest zergs and roaming is mostly stealth and one shot combat.

    Unless Anet merges WvW and sPvP stats, WvW will never resemble anything that is remotely closed to balanced combat.

  • Ultramex.1506Ultramex.1506 Member ✭✭✭

    @otto.5684 said:

    mostly stealth and one shot combat.

    Yes....gotta love how a mesmer burst my necro with high toughness (Rabid) in only 2 secs same goes for warrior and ele, it make me think that if you deal dmg faster than the Flash himself, it will bypass the toughness :/

  • voltaicbore.8012voltaicbore.8012 Member ✭✭✭

    @Strider.7849 said:
    I feel that the balancing can be summed up using the ranger as an example:

    Many complaints that Soulbeast is overperforming.

    They proceed to nerf Druid

    The biggest issue overall for me is not the nerfing per say, it's that they completely kill specs so that it's virtually unplayable in all content. I call it constant "Yo-Yo" balancing. The result is many of the casuals they seem to cater the game to grind and work hard towards gear for a character they enjoy playing, and the class gets so radically changed or nerfed - then you need to grind and save for a totally different set or class altogether.

    As sad as I am to be saying this, the above is precisely why my ranger will reap the biggest long-term benefit from holding onto the one set of legendary armor I've been able to put together so far. I used to main druid in all forms of content, but that's steadily been nerfed out of the picture. At least with legendary weapons/armor, I don't have to reinvest when weird "balance" changes obsolesce an entire specialization.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Devs pet classes is how balancing works atm.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • TheBravery.9615TheBravery.9615 Member ✭✭✭

    it is rather disappointing to see the system team shift their focus on stupid kitten like a racial elite and made no real meaningful impact, meanwhile there's a wealth of overperforming skill/straits and underperforming skills/traits to be found literally everywhere.

  • Samuel.4812Samuel.4812 Member ✭✭✭

    Honestly everything feels balanced atm in spvp except for boonbeast and warrior. It would be nice to have more viable builds though as what they have said is true in terms of limited options available per profession.

  • Derdzvero.7051Derdzvero.7051 Member ✭✭✭

    Heavy Armour class being squishier than half-naked silk-dressed one. Legendaries with no extra/special skills/trait synergy. Nerfs/Buffs just for the sake of changes.. 90% fps drops due to skin effects..
    GW2 in a nutshell- a joke. Every 5€ arpg does things 1000 times better..

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