PvP match manipulation has gone too far. - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

PvP match manipulation has gone too far.

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  • Vieux P.1238Vieux P.1238 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Vieux P.1238 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Vieux P.1238 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Vieux P.1238 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @yanniell.1236 said:
    1) no more DuoQ;
    2) a player can't face the other 9 players of his/her last match for the next 5 matches.

    There you go. No more match manipulation and more diversity.

    Next problem.

    there you go, no more matches

    pvp population on a decent level is allready not impressive to say it polite

    you'd complelty gut it.
    you'd need 9 different players, per match for the next 5 matches or 45 players, per 5 matches... per player.

    that is 45*9, unless my math fails me

    Not to long ago there was a big hooblah about letting back team Q's in rank. Between the ones that want to match manipulate & the ones that already said it's been tried & it don't work. & that's why i really don't play much rank.

    The funny thing is that despite every player in the game using LFG for Dungeons, Fractals, Raids, Meta Trains, Achievements, and Automated Tournaments, Arenanet seems to believe that players wouldn't be capable of or want to use LFG for ranked exactly in the same way that they do for everything else? I mean they added a "join party" option for the players that were just in your match for a reason right?

    I dunno seems haphazard or fishy to me at the best.

    Point is Team Q is easy to match manipulate. Was done before & still is now with duo Q's. So stop asking Anet for 5 team Q's or any of it. At least until ...

    Please explain to me how someone is going to match manipulate my team of 5 players whom I know I can trust.

    No what your thinking of matchmanipulation is windtrading. I'm talking about stacking 5 man team Q's with friends (over advantage) vs team made of pugs in Rank. In the old day's It got to be such a problem that Anet removed Team Q's from rank. I feel i don't need to explain why. I think your smart anoth to understand why.

    What you're talking about isn't match manipulation my friend, it is simply a team of better players winning.

    Which is how the game is supposed to be.

    By all means..go ahead & cry after like last time

    Winter Nerf is coming!

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 26, 2019

    @Vieux P.1238 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Vieux P.1238 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Vieux P.1238 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @yanniell.1236 said:
    1) no more DuoQ;
    2) a player can't face the other 9 players of his/her last match for the next 5 matches.

    There you go. No more match manipulation and more diversity.

    Next problem.

    there you go, no more matches

    pvp population on a decent level is allready not impressive to say it polite

    you'd complelty gut it.
    you'd need 9 different players, per match for the next 5 matches or 45 players, per 5 matches... per player.

    that is 45*9, unless my math fails me

    Not to long ago there was a big hooblah about letting back team Q's in rank. Between the ones that want to match manipulate & the ones that already said it's been tried & it don't work. & that's why i really don't play much rank.

    The funny thing is that despite every player in the game using LFG for Dungeons, Fractals, Raids, Meta Trains, Achievements, and Automated Tournaments, Arenanet seems to believe that players wouldn't be capable of or want to use LFG for ranked exactly in the same way that they do for everything else? I mean they added a "join party" option for the players that were just in your match for a reason right?

    I dunno seems haphazard or fishy to me at the best.

    Point is Team Q is easy to match manipulate. Was done before & still is now with duo Q's. So stop asking Anet for 5 team Q's or any of it. At least until ...

    Please explain to me how someone is going to match manipulate my team of 5 players whom I know I can trust.

    No what your thinking of matchmanipulation is windtrading. I'm talking about stacking 5 man team Q's with friends (over advantage) vs team made of pugs in Rank. In the old day's It got to be such a problem that Anet removed Team Q's from rank. I feel i don't need to explain why. I think your smart anoth to understand why.

    They didnt remove team queue for those reasons..

    They removed team queue because players asked for solo queue because it was unfair that top teams were beating them.. Or it was unfair that they refused to make a team and got beaten by those who did.

    They got thier solo queue, top players still beat them so they quit playing and left us avid, enthusiastic gw2 team players in the dust.
    (This is where our population started to drop, they removed the ability for casual players to play together and each season we see it get worse since then. People cant play together, people now cant even get a fair match, win trading, match manipulation and a variety of other issues directly linked to the removal of team play.)

    Im with Trev, how does one wintrade and match manipulate in 5 man queue settings? I dont remember win trading and match manipulation being a thing during team queue...
    Truth be told when I solo queue, im plat. When I team queue or duo, because we play for fun my rank can be silver. All that matters is that im having fun while playing a video game, a concept lost in this game with season 5 onwards.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    06210311 251521 121512

  • Khalisto.5780Khalisto.5780 Member ✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Khalisto.5780 said:
    what rank is this. starting from bronze 3 now in gold 3 over 500 matches I think I've played max 5 matches I think were match manipulation or ppl really faked well. In lower ranks they are just toxic as I was, we lost mid fight, whole game is lost, afk. 1, 3, 1 in the start, afk. Teammates losing 2v1, afk. I didnt like your outfit, afk. Double thief, afk, and so on. Toxic ppl most of the time not wintraders. If you're talking about plat 2. and up you might be right.

    You're seeing it, you've probably just not played long enough to able to recognize what it is you're seeing.

    Unfortunately for newer players unto the scene, they have no ability to compare & contrast the monkey business going on nowadays vs. say 4 years ago, when population was much higher, f2p wasn't a thing, fewer players even knew how to perform win trading, and the ratio of match manipulations vs. clean matches was like 1/20 instead of 1/3. If you had played in year 1, 2, or 3 as example, you would be able to remember what a real match looks like, when players are actually trying hard, when everyone is on their main accounts, no one is smurfing, and no one is win trading or throwing for some misc. reason. The closest thing I can example to you, to explain what that felt like, is if you go to play in an AT now. If you play in ATs, even with an all gold 2 team, you'll see that the flow of the matches is NEVER suspicious.

    Let me further example this so you have a better idea of how to spot obvious match manipulation.

    In ATs matches generally flow like this. Remember that ATs are 5 man chosen teams, and the chances are virtually 0% for a match manipulation to happen:

    • Two teams are facing off and one team seems to be dominant after the initial split first rotation. Even though the Blue team knows it's going to lose, they still try hard in hopes that maybe the Red team might fumble a rotation and allow them a comeback. The match ends something like 500 to 400. But the "feel" of the mechanical skills of the players on both teams was consistent through the entire match. There were no moments where "ALL OF A SUDDEN The Red team comes back from the grave at 200 to 400 and magically begins mechanically outplaying the Blue team as if they suddenly pokemon like evolved from gold 1 players into plat 2+ players mid game and began dominating with a triple cap rampage that couldn't be broken." or "All of a sudden, some guy that was clearly outplaying everyone with superior mechanical combat skills, begins to walk onto nodes only spamming 1 and never using his heal, as if he were wanting the other team to farm him."
    • Sometimes a comeback can happen in an AT, but when it does, it isn't from bad players who were getting crunched mechanically in combat, suddenly pokemon evolving into plat 3 players half way through the match. Real comebacks in real matches, happen from clutch rotations or one team secures an important objective, or very rarely the dominant team makes a serious fumble or someone IRL actually DCs. The point being is that player's mechanical combat skill factors remain steady through the entire match.
    • Sometimes in ATs, the match is a slaughter. You get a Monthly AT worthy team going against some guys who just joined to get 5g. The match is going to end up being 500 to 0 or maybe 500 to 40 or something if the strong team is getting lazy and doing funny things instead of taking the match seriously. The point being is that during these kinds of matches, the mechanical skill factors of the players on each team remain exactly the same through the entire match as they were in the beginning.

    In Unranked, it is solo or duo or trio or quad or 5 man, yes. But there is no competitive incentive to perform match manipulations. The only incentive to perform a match manipulation in Unranked, is if you wanted to for some reason attempt to grind reward tracks? I assure you, no one is going out of their way to form organized win trading to grind reward tracks. If a person really wanted to grind loot, there are far far more lucrative places to do that in Guild Wars 2. Unranked matches flow like this:

    • You get some serious trollol builds joining in Unranked. People just having fun, or people practicing new things, doesn't matter. The point being is that in Unranked matches it generally has the same type of flow as AT matches. In fact it is so similar, that there is no reason but to make one asterisk here. The idea to keep in mind is that players are either winning or they are losing, and comebacks are rare, and they happen through clutch plays, not sudden evolvement or de-evolution of player's mechanical skill values. The players you are with or against are staying the same skill level, visually, clearly, tangibly when you fight them. You can tell people are actually trying at their actual skill levels.

    Old matches in Ranked from times past, when the population was high. They flowed like this:

    • Everything exampled in the above was even MORE true 4+ years ago. Now we have various teams of various skill levels going against each other in ATs, or in Unranked the hidden MMRs which function basically just like Ranked, we have 1700 level Unrankers getting teamed with and against 1400s or maybe even lower during off peak hours. But in matches 4+ years ago, those gaps in skill margins were less than half of what they are now. You had 1700s getting put with and against 1800s and maybe 1650s. Back then the 1750s would complain if they had a 1650 on their team ^^ Point being is that the games were actually quite a bit more balance than they are now. It was rare to see 500 to 100 blowouts or even 500 to 250 type situations. Generally about 8/10 matches back then looked more like 500 to 400. Again, it was even MORE true back then, about how you could clearly see the level in which every play was playing at, and that it did not suddenly change halfway through a match. The match quality was just better back then.

    Matches in Ranked now.... post S6, when the beans got spilled. What happened was that during S6, a particular popular streamer was suspended for win trading.
    Then some particular old pro players were suspended for other things. And then people began talking on Reddit & The Official Forum, about what exactly was win trading, and how were they doing it? Long story short, during S6, so much discussion was perked about this, that everyone learned how to do it. And by S7, when these people who were suspended or banned were allowed to come back and keep doing it while remaining safe while doing it with new types of methods, other players also saw how to do it safely, and that Arenanet either could not prove what they were doing, or possibly didn't care at all that it was happening. Here is how matches flow in Ranked today:

    • On an average day, about half of your matches will be clean. About half of your matches will look and feel like the matches I had described in previous examples, where there are no sudden evolutions or de-evolutions of player skill factors. The other half of your matches... well...
    • About 1/4th of your matches may feel generally lopsided the entire game, as if the algorithm were targeting you to make you lose. The game starts and you're immediately met with the realization that your team is going to lose after the initial split. Your team wipes 3v3 at mid in a little less than 20s. Your guy who pushed far didn't even hold long, got chopped nearly as fast as the guys at mid, and now you're standing at home finishing the cap, figuring out how you're going to survive and regroup from the snowball. You end up losing the match 250 to 500. Nothing looked suspicious so to say, but the match just felt like improper placement. Sometimes in those 1/4th of your matches you are the one who gets on the winning team of 500 to 250. But in these 1/4th of games, there is still no real sudden evolution or de-evolution of player mechanical skills. <- This is all effects of low population and general smurfing, players who play at plat 2+ levels who are on alts that are being placed in teams at 1400 levels. This is how these kind of games happen. No one is necessarily throwing or win trading.
    • The other 1/4th of your matches.. are completely botched and make no sense at all. Seriously at least 1/4th of Ranked games are like this nowadays.. You start off the match and your team is just smashing the other team. You end up with this lead of 350 to 150, and you're thinking: "Ok this is an easy match, we're going to win." You can clearly see that your team is mechanically outplaying the other team. As if your team were stacked with plat 2s and the other team had gold 2s. And then ALL OF A SUDDEN, you have a player or two on your team just randomly begin to play like complete utter garbage. They somehow were winning 1v2s halfway through the game, repeatedly, with clearly visually superior mechanical skills, but then devolve into a player who seemingly doesn't know his class, or role, or even where his buttons are. <- That is not normal, and that is not something we've seen like this in the previous 5 or 6 years of the game. This is a phenomenon that began trending after the secrets of win trading and alt throwing were unleashed into the community. I remember once I was on the losing team, and I wasn't even getting mad, but I was getting very serious about trying to give rotational intel into the /t chat, I was trying hard to get them to win. Then this guy from our team on an account I had never once seen before, whispers me and says: "We're good, just watch." and then ALL OFF A SUDDEN, the other team just sort of stopped trying. A couple of their players began doing very stupid things. Things that were too stupid to be real. My team was able to come back from the grave from like a 200 point difference and win the game. It didn't happen from a clutch play or rotation, or securing a clutch objective. It happened because the other team suddenly devolved into players who didn't know their class, job roles, or even where their buttons where. That's just one example of many many others I could give you, where there was a moment that I knew I was caught in the middle of some kind of a win trade or throw.

    So yeah, for those of you who weren't around in earlier years or who don't play ATs, to be able to see what real matches look like and feel like vs. the kitten we have going on in Ranked today, there is the difference for you, laid out for your enjoyment & recognition.

    There's a long text there, my opinion was based on my own actions, I've been acused of match manipulation quite a few times, but I was just being toxic, never doimg aome match manipulation or wintrading.

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Curennos.9307 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Curennos.9307 said:

    @Mbelch.9028 said:

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:
    You are more likely to get banned from the forums.

    Which is sad because players like these ruin the game.

    I remember when Anet was aggressive about cheating scum.

    They had the Dhuumban in GW1 and they even made at least one dudes character go naked and jump off the high bridge in Divinity's Reach.

    I miss THAT Anet.

    This.

    @risingeagle.7813 said:
    Numerous match manipulations as of late. This one was today. This is getting ridiculous:

    What on this SS screams MM to anybody? I'm not saying you're wrong, but the SS is a poor choice -- you are the one standing in base while your team is dying, and you've just rando-cuss-whispered two teammates. The heck?

    There's a certain level of effectiveness for some classes that you can achieve just by rolling your face across the keyboard, or rotating through skills with minimal knowledge. It takes five minutes, maybe less, to copy a warr build and figure out when you should use skills and how to mindlessly rotate through evades, weapon skills, and how to CC into burst skills/hundred blades.

    When people fail to even reach the level of effectiveness for a class you can achieve by rolling your face across the keyboard, there aren't a lot of other possibilities. I've had scrappers that die 1v1 to a warrior, necromancers that try to decap far while showing no movement utility skills slotted (?), support FBs that go everywhere BUT the teamfight, etc. I mean, it's still possible they could just be....really, really bad. But that's a very small chance, I think.

    Mind you, those are all scenarios that actually happened to me while I was in g3 throughout the past week. If a match is 100-500 or below, I generally assume some shenannigans are going on.

    How can you at one hand say that warrior is so kitten easy to learn that it facerolls everyone, and on the other hand say that its hard to lose as a scrapper against a warrior? It doesnt make sense buddy, just pointing that out

    No, you're strawmanning. Don't do that.

    You're adding on an 'everyone'. I made no reference to the warrior facerolling anyone - rather, their level of expected effectiveness even if the player has only picked up the class recently.

    Sorry, but the way you said it just sounded exactly like that... Not my fault shrug

  • pukish.5784pukish.5784 Member ✭✭

    When Team is losing, someone said "oh ----, my mom just arrived to house, see ya guys" and logged.
    That Sacrifice saved our ratings. Thanks PvP Community.
    Without Community, It's hard to keep your rating up with this random match making system. maybe.
    So, Join The PvP Community. You can ask someone to quit the match when you are losing.

  • pukish.5784pukish.5784 Member ✭✭

    But I will play manly. Without such Community.
    Being Dark Horse is so fun.

  • yanniell.1236yanniell.1236 Member ✭✭✭

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @yanniell.1236 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @yanniell.1236 said:
    1) no more DuoQ;
    2) a player can't face the other 9 players of his/her last match for the next 5 matches.

    There you go. No more match manipulation and more diversity.

    Next problem.

    there you go, no more matches

    pvp population on a decent level is allready not impressive to say it polite

    you'd complelty gut it.
    you'd need 9 different players, per match for the next 5 matches or 45 players, per 5 matches... per player.

    that is 45*9, unless my math fails me

    If you don't have 45 different players to play 5 matches in a row, your game is already doomed and this discussion makes no sense to begin with.

    that is 45 different players, per player

    you would need 5 matches with 45*9 new people before the 10 originals could be put together again

    which is nowhere realistic, as i said in my first post "pvp population on a decent level is allready not impressive to say it polite"

    keyword: decent, everything under plat 2 is not decent

    The point is the same. If 405 players is too much (LOL, R.I.P pvp), just make it 4, 3 or even 2 games in a row with that restriction. No matter the number here, that alone would make match manipulation REALLY difficult.

    Besides, that alone would also increase matches variety and make that we don't get that guy that afk after the first lost team battle on the next game.

  • Engal.6359Engal.6359 Member ✭✭✭

    Between botting and win trading it is almost impossible to climb back ok it of gold at the end of the season. I dropped from plat after hitting a few really good players (gods of pvp) in a row and have struggled to stay in g3 since. Gold is so full of bots and wintrading it's no wonder this game mode is dying. Cmon we can so better than this.

  • Azure The Heartless.3261Azure The Heartless.3261 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 28, 2019

    @Vieux P.1238 said:
    Point is Team Q is easy to match manipulate. Was done before & still is now with duo Q's. So stop asking Anet for 5 team Q's or any of it. At least until ...
    @Vieux P.1238 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Please explain to me how someone is going to match manipulate my team of 5 players whom I know I can trust.

    No what your thinking of matchmanipulation is windtrading. I'm talking about stacking 5 man team Q's with friends (over advantage) vs team made of pugs in Rank. In the old day's It got to be such a problem that Anet removed Team Q's from rank. I feel i don't need to explain why. I think your smart anoth to understand why.

    Don't play ranked with a pug, then.....?
    I'm trying to understand why ranked needs to be solo q only, or why a separate leaderboard cannot be generated to distinguish players who consistently perform well in unranked or something. I understand that being steamrolled by teams ain't a good feel. but this situation where someone can pay gold to have matches thrown until they get to top pvp titles is objectively worse, and if the mild stress of finding a group online when you are can resolve that, go for it.

    [Charr Noises]
    [Plays every class]
    [JUST GIT EVEN GUDDER ITS FINE]

  • Vieux P.1238Vieux P.1238 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

    @Vieux P.1238 said:
    Point is Team Q is easy to match manipulate. Was done before & still is now with duo Q's. So stop asking Anet for 5 team Q's or any of it. At least until ...
    @Vieux P.1238 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Please explain to me how someone is going to match manipulate my team of 5 players whom I know I can trust.

    No what your thinking of matchmanipulation is windtrading. I'm talking about stacking 5 man team Q's with friends (over advantage) vs team made of pugs in Rank. In the old day's It got to be such a problem that Anet removed Team Q's from rank. I feel i don't need to explain why. I think your smart anoth to understand why.

    Don't play ranked with a pug, then.....?
    I'm trying to understand why ranked needs to be solo q only, or why a separate leaderboard cannot be generated to distinguish players who consistently perform well in unranked or something.

    Yes! & we all know the spvp matchmaker is 100% reliable.

    Winter Nerf is coming!

  • Azure The Heartless.3261Azure The Heartless.3261 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 28, 2019

    @Vieux P.1238 said:

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

    @Vieux P.1238 said:
    Point is Team Q is easy to match manipulate. Was done before & still is now with duo Q's. So stop asking Anet for 5 team Q's or any of it. At least until ...
    @Vieux P.1238 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Please explain to me how someone is going to match manipulate my team of 5 players whom I know I can trust.

    No what your thinking of matchmanipulation is windtrading. I'm talking about stacking 5 man team Q's with friends (over advantage) vs team made of pugs in Rank. In the old day's It got to be such a problem that Anet removed Team Q's from rank. I feel i don't need to explain why. I think your smart anoth to understand why.

    Don't play ranked with a pug, then.....?
    I'm trying to understand why ranked needs to be solo q only, or why a separate leaderboard cannot be generated to distinguish players who consistently perform well in unranked or something.

    Yes! & we all know the spvp matchmaker is 100% reliable.

    I mean, it's not, but that doesn't mean matchups would be significantly worse than they are now, where people can pay someone on your team to throw or someone on your team could tank the team because they aren't dancing to his/her tune.

    [Charr Noises]
    [Plays every class]
    [JUST GIT EVEN GUDDER ITS FINE]

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