Lonecap.4105 Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 It seems these weapons get neglected and never updated. Anyone looking at offhand Mace and Sword can see these weapons are just god awful. Firstly, Mace 5 seems like it could be nice, but the cooldown is WAY too high, it should be 15 seconds untraited. It should also NOT be a projectile and function like CoR, and the radius should be far wider. If given this treatment, it would become a decent offhand option for Spellbreakers in WvW. Mace 4 is underwhelming too and honestly could use a total rework.Off-hand sword is perhaps EVEN worse, and I'm just really confused by this weapon. NO build uses this weapon. There is literally 0 place for it. I think both Sword 4 and 5 need a total rework, and have completely different effects to what they do now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 You are correct on Sword, but wrong on Mace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitman.5829 Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 I am a warrior main and I have been playing only warrior since 2012.I have never used mace in offhand.I have used sword in offhand only for about 1 year before the nerf to impale when we could throw the sword back.Its true, those two weapons need a rework in their offhand. Also, mace needs a complete rework offhand and main hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonecap.4105 Posted May 19, 2019 Author Share Posted May 19, 2019 @"Hitman.5829" said:I am a warrior main and I have been playing only warrior since 2012.I have never used mace in offhand.I have used sword in offhand only for about 1 year before the nerf to impale when we could throw the sword back.Its true, those two weapons need a rework in their offhand. Also, mace needs a complete rework offhand and main hand.I think it would be nice if Tremor was a low-damage hard CC version of CoR for mace, and maybe Mace 4 could also become a non-projectile shockwave, applying vulnerability.For offhand sword, I'm not sure but I think a suped up Sword 5 could be nice, with a really hard hitting Riposte if triggered (similar to final thrust >50% dmg levels). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 Mace 5 is a strong knockdown. Both the wave and the mace swing deal damage. Mace 4 hits hard. Mace OH is the OH of choice for power builds that do not need the AOE of Whirling Axe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonecap.4105 Posted May 19, 2019 Author Share Posted May 19, 2019 @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:Mace 5 is a strong knockdown. Both the wave and the mace swing deal damage. Mace 4 hits hard. Mace OH is the OH of choice for power builds that do not need the AOE of Whirling Axe.I'm guessing you're saying this from a PvE perspective? I can see why Mace 5 would seem fine from this perspective. It is even used in core bannerslave builds. However for WvW, it is useless. Being a projectile, hard to land and a huge cooldown makes this skill unusable. The changes I suggested (making it non-projectile like CoR) would make it playable and wouldn't affect PvE negatively. The CC wouldn't change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancho.8750 Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 Mace 5 should probably work like the Revenant Hammer 2 to be good for WvW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 I> @ProverbsofHell.2307 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:Mace 5 is a strong knockdown. Both the wave and the mace swing deal damage. Mace 4 hits hard. Mace OH is the OH of choice for power builds that do not need the AOE of Whirling Axe.I'm guessing you're saying this from a PvE perspective? I can see why Mace 5 would seem fine from this perspective. It is even used in core bannerslave builds. However for WvW, it is useless. Being a projectile, hard to land and a huge cooldown makes this skill unusable. The changes I suggested (making it non-projectile like CoR) would make it playable and wouldn't affect PvE negatively. The CC wouldn't change.I’ve actually used to use mace 5 to set up kill shot or 100b. You still can, just use it at point blank range and don’t be a noob about it. Could even be a set up for Arc Divider or Decapitate now.Just because you don’t like it does not mean it is ineffective or outdated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonecap.4105 Posted May 20, 2019 Author Share Posted May 20, 2019 @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:I> @ProverbsofHell.2307 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:Mace 5 is a strong knockdown. Both the wave and the mace swing deal damage. Mace 4 hits hard. Mace OH is the OH of choice for power builds that do not need the AOE of Whirling Axe.I'm guessing you're saying this from a PvE perspective? I can see why Mace 5 would seem fine from this perspective. It is even used in core bannerslave builds. However for WvW, it is useless. Being a projectile, hard to land and a huge cooldown makes this skill unusable. The changes I suggested (making it non-projectile like CoR) would make it playable and wouldn't affect PvE negatively. The CC wouldn't change.I’ve actually used to use mace 5 to set up kill shot or 100b. You still can, just use it at point blank range and don’t be a noob about it. Could even be a set up for Arc Divider or Decapitate now.Just because you don’t like it does not mean it is ineffective or outdated.Nah dude you aint setting up shit with that. Mace 5 > 100b? Only an old lady would die to this and perhaps not even then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 @ProverbsofHell.2307 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:I> @ProverbsofHell.2307 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:Mace 5 is a strong knockdown. Both the wave and the mace swing deal damage. Mace 4 hits hard. Mace OH is the OH of choice for power builds that do not need the AOE of Whirling Axe.I'm guessing you're saying this from a PvE perspective? I can see why Mace 5 would seem fine from this perspective. It is even used in core bannerslave builds. However for WvW, it is useless. Being a projectile, hard to land and a huge cooldown makes this skill unusable. The changes I suggested (making it non-projectile like CoR) would make it playable and wouldn't affect PvE negatively. The CC wouldn't change.I’ve actually used to use mace 5 to set up kill shot or 100b. You still can, just use it at point blank range and don’t be a noob about it. Could even be a set up for Arc Divider or Decapitate now.Just because you don’t like it does not mean it is ineffective or outdated.Nah dude you aint setting up kitten with that. Mace 5 > 100b? Only an old lady would die to this and perhaps not even then.And yet I've done it in the past and killed people. People used and still use Flurry -> 100b as well. Bull's charge helps as well, particularly if they break stun immediately. Killed lots of people in WvW that way. Granted now I just Headbutt them and kill them with Arc Divider even post nerf.Mace OH is fine, any changes to it would overpower it. Sword MH and OH both need a rework though. They are hybrids from an era when hybrid was passable, but now its either full power or full condi, and sword is neither. Grieving might work with a sw/sw warrior, but there are still parts of sword that need updating, namely the self root on Flurry. Impale and Riposte were slightly buffed last October, so its not like they aren't paying attention to sword OH. They may buff them further if they still do not see more OH sword play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonecap.4105 Posted May 20, 2019 Author Share Posted May 20, 2019 @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@ProverbsofHell.2307 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:I> @ProverbsofHell.2307 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:Mace 5 is a strong knockdown. Both the wave and the mace swing deal damage. Mace 4 hits hard. Mace OH is the OH of choice for power builds that do not need the AOE of Whirling Axe.I'm guessing you're saying this from a PvE perspective? I can see why Mace 5 would seem fine from this perspective. It is even used in core bannerslave builds. However for WvW, it is useless. Being a projectile, hard to land and a huge cooldown makes this skill unusable. The changes I suggested (making it non-projectile like CoR) would make it playable and wouldn't affect PvE negatively. The CC wouldn't change.I’ve actually used to use mace 5 to set up kill shot or 100b. You still can, just use it at point blank range and don’t be a noob about it. Could even be a set up for Arc Divider or Decapitate now.Just because you don’t like it does not mean it is ineffective or outdated.Nah dude you aint setting up kitten with that. Mace 5 > 100b? Only an old lady would die to this and perhaps not even then.And yet I've done it in the past and killed people. People used and still use Flurry -> 100b as well. Bull's charge helps as well, particularly if they break stun immediately. Killed lots of people in WvW that way. Granted now I just Headbutt them and kill them with Arc Divider even post nerf.Mace OH is fine, any changes to it would overpower it. Sword MH and OH both need a rework though. They are hybrids from an era when hybrid was passable, but now its either full power or full condi, and sword is neither. Grieving might work with a sw/sw warrior, but there are still parts of sword that need updating, namely the self root on Flurry. Impale and Riposte were slightly buffed last October, so its not like they aren't paying attention to sword OH. They may buff them further if they still do not see more OH sword play.Sword main-hand is great and gets play in both raids (Condi) and WvW/PvP (Power). Meanwhile nobody is using off-hand Mace and you're saying my changes would make it overpowered. Well you're wrong. Actually, why am I bothering to reply to this troll post. Literally "any chances to offhand Mace would overpower it". So it's the perfect weaponset? I'm done here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 @ProverbsofHell.2307 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@ProverbsofHell.2307 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:I> @ProverbsofHell.2307 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:Mace 5 is a strong knockdown. Both the wave and the mace swing deal damage. Mace 4 hits hard. Mace OH is the OH of choice for power builds that do not need the AOE of Whirling Axe.I'm guessing you're saying this from a PvE perspective? I can see why Mace 5 would seem fine from this perspective. It is even used in core bannerslave builds. However for WvW, it is useless. Being a projectile, hard to land and a huge cooldown makes this skill unusable. The changes I suggested (making it non-projectile like CoR) would make it playable and wouldn't affect PvE negatively. The CC wouldn't change.I’ve actually used to use mace 5 to set up kill shot or 100b. You still can, just use it at point blank range and don’t be a noob about it. Could even be a set up for Arc Divider or Decapitate now.Just because you don’t like it does not mean it is ineffective or outdated.Nah dude you aint setting up kitten with that. Mace 5 > 100b? Only an old lady would die to this and perhaps not even then.And yet I've done it in the past and killed people. People used and still use Flurry -> 100b as well. Bull's charge helps as well, particularly if they break stun immediately. Killed lots of people in WvW that way. Granted now I just Headbutt them and kill them with Arc Divider even post nerf.Mace OH is fine, any changes to it would overpower it. Sword MH and OH both need a rework though. They are hybrids from an era when hybrid was passable, but now its either full power or full condi, and sword is neither. Grieving might work with a sw/sw warrior, but there are still parts of sword that need updating, namely the self root on Flurry. Impale and Riposte were slightly buffed last October, so its not like they aren't paying attention to sword OH. They may buff them further if they still do not see more OH sword play.Sword main-hand is great and gets play in both raids (Condi) and WvW/PvP (Power). Meanwhile nobody is using off-hand Mace and you're saying my changes would make it overpowered. Well you're wrong. Actually, why am I bothering to reply to this troll post. Literally "any chances to offhand Mace would overpower it". So it's the perfect weaponset? I'm done here.Don't get offended just because you got disagreed with. Mace OH is fine, you just don't like it or aren't good at using it. Stop trolling yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitman.5829 Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@ProverbsofHell.2307 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@ProverbsofHell.2307 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:I> @ProverbsofHell.2307 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:Mace 5 is a strong knockdown. Both the wave and the mace swing deal damage. Mace 4 hits hard. Mace OH is the OH of choice for power builds that do not need the AOE of Whirling Axe.I'm guessing you're saying this from a PvE perspective? I can see why Mace 5 would seem fine from this perspective. It is even used in core bannerslave builds. However for WvW, it is useless. Being a projectile, hard to land and a huge cooldown makes this skill unusable. The changes I suggested (making it non-projectile like CoR) would make it playable and wouldn't affect PvE negatively. The CC wouldn't change.I’ve actually used to use mace 5 to set up kill shot or 100b. You still can, just use it at point blank range and don’t be a noob about it. Could even be a set up for Arc Divider or Decapitate now.Just because you don’t like it does not mean it is ineffective or outdated.Nah dude you aint setting up kitten with that. Mace 5 > 100b? Only an old lady would die to this and perhaps not even then.And yet I've done it in the past and killed people. People used and still use Flurry -> 100b as well. Bull's charge helps as well, particularly if they break stun immediately. Killed lots of people in WvW that way. Granted now I just Headbutt them and kill them with Arc Divider even post nerf.Mace OH is fine, any changes to it would overpower it. Sword MH and OH both need a rework though. They are hybrids from an era when hybrid was passable, but now its either full power or full condi, and sword is neither. Grieving might work with a sw/sw warrior, but there are still parts of sword that need updating, namely the self root on Flurry. Impale and Riposte were slightly buffed last October, so its not like they aren't paying attention to sword OH. They may buff them further if they still do not see more OH sword play.Sword main-hand is great and gets play in both raids (Condi) and WvW/PvP (Power). Meanwhile nobody is using off-hand Mace and you're saying my changes would make it overpowered. Well you're wrong. Actually, why am I bothering to reply to this troll post. Literally "any chances to offhand Mace would overpower it". So it's the perfect weaponset? I'm done here.Don't get offended just because you got disagreed with. Mace OH is fine, you just don't like it or aren't good at using it. Stop trolling yourself.It would be fun to have a war vs war duel in WvW you use mace and I don'tDeal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 Alas, I do not think our servers are matched up, nor do I have any desire to transfer. Why don't you play more with Mace OH on your own and figure out for yourself why Anet hasn't felt the need to update it like other offhands? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opopanax.1803 Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@ProverbsofHell.2307 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@ProverbsofHell.2307 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:I> @ProverbsofHell.2307 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:Mace 5 is a strong knockdown. Both the wave and the mace swing deal damage. Mace 4 hits hard. Mace OH is the OH of choice for power builds that do not need the AOE of Whirling Axe.I'm guessing you're saying this from a PvE perspective? I can see why Mace 5 would seem fine from this perspective. It is even used in core bannerslave builds. However for WvW, it is useless. Being a projectile, hard to land and a huge cooldown makes this skill unusable. The changes I suggested (making it non-projectile like CoR) would make it playable and wouldn't affect PvE negatively. The CC wouldn't change.I’ve actually used to use mace 5 to set up kill shot or 100b. You still can, just use it at point blank range and don’t be a noob about it. Could even be a set up for Arc Divider or Decapitate now.Just because you don’t like it does not mean it is ineffective or outdated.Nah dude you aint setting up kitten with that. Mace 5 > 100b? Only an old lady would die to this and perhaps not even then.And yet I've done it in the past and killed people. People used and still use Flurry -> 100b as well. Bull's charge helps as well, particularly if they break stun immediately. Killed lots of people in WvW that way. Granted now I just Headbutt them and kill them with Arc Divider even post nerf.Mace OH is fine, any changes to it would overpower it. Sword MH and OH both need a rework though. They are hybrids from an era when hybrid was passable, but now its either full power or full condi, and sword is neither. Grieving might work with a sw/sw warrior, but there are still parts of sword that need updating, namely the self root on Flurry. Impale and Riposte were slightly buffed last October, so its not like they aren't paying attention to sword OH. They may buff them further if they still do not see more OH sword play.Sword main-hand is great and gets play in both raids (Condi) and WvW/PvP (Power). Meanwhile nobody is using off-hand Mace and you're saying my changes would make it overpowered. Well you're wrong. Actually, why am I bothering to reply to this troll post. Literally "any chances to offhand Mace would overpower it". So it's the perfect weaponset? I'm done here.Don't get offended just because you got disagreed with. Mace OH is fine, you just don't like it or aren't good at using it. Stop trolling yourself.Disagree. Mace OH would be fine if they changed the targeting to be like GS 3. It aims wrong way too often right now. Fix that and I think itd be useful and used far more often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 @Opopanax.1803 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@ProverbsofHell.2307 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@ProverbsofHell.2307 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:I> @ProverbsofHell.2307 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:Mace 5 is a strong knockdown. Both the wave and the mace swing deal damage. Mace 4 hits hard. Mace OH is the OH of choice for power builds that do not need the AOE of Whirling Axe.I'm guessing you're saying this from a PvE perspective? I can see why Mace 5 would seem fine from this perspective. It is even used in core bannerslave builds. However for WvW, it is useless. Being a projectile, hard to land and a huge cooldown makes this skill unusable. The changes I suggested (making it non-projectile like CoR) would make it playable and wouldn't affect PvE negatively. The CC wouldn't change.I’ve actually used to use mace 5 to set up kill shot or 100b. You still can, just use it at point blank range and don’t be a noob about it. Could even be a set up for Arc Divider or Decapitate now.Just because you don’t like it does not mean it is ineffective or outdated.Nah dude you aint setting up kitten with that. Mace 5 > 100b? Only an old lady would die to this and perhaps not even then.And yet I've done it in the past and killed people. People used and still use Flurry -> 100b as well. Bull's charge helps as well, particularly if they break stun immediately. Killed lots of people in WvW that way. Granted now I just Headbutt them and kill them with Arc Divider even post nerf.Mace OH is fine, any changes to it would overpower it. Sword MH and OH both need a rework though. They are hybrids from an era when hybrid was passable, but now its either full power or full condi, and sword is neither. Grieving might work with a sw/sw warrior, but there are still parts of sword that need updating, namely the self root on Flurry. Impale and Riposte were slightly buffed last October, so its not like they aren't paying attention to sword OH. They may buff them further if they still do not see more OH sword play.Sword main-hand is great and gets play in both raids (Condi) and WvW/PvP (Power). Meanwhile nobody is using off-hand Mace and you're saying my changes would make it overpowered. Well you're wrong. Actually, why am I bothering to reply to this troll post. Literally "any chances to offhand Mace would overpower it". So it's the perfect weaponset? I'm done here.Don't get offended just because you got disagreed with. Mace OH is fine, you just don't like it or aren't good at using it. Stop trolling yourself.Disagree. Mace OH would be fine if they changed the targeting to be like GS 3. It aims wrong way too often right now. Fix that and I think itd be useful and used far more often.Then fix the tracking code itself. As for the manual aiming: drop target and face where you want the wave to travel before using it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcopaul.2156 Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 I don't know, you guise.. but almost every complaint that "this or that sucks" seems like fake news to me coz I usually find them epic.and those that i think suck, you find it awesome.how come? is there a reason for this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 Off hand mace used to be meta in PvE, however it's not as necessary as it used to be since PvE was more about 5 man content than 10 man content at that time. The skills are still pretty usefull in PvE context, thought since a quick access to vuln and hard CC is always welcome.Off hand sword was just made outdated by torch when Berserker was introduced, otherwise it used to be (and is still) a good weapon to solo content in PvE. Nowaday, conditions aren't really effective in PvP so the weapon is somehow unpopular there as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 @Dadnir.5038 said:Off hand mace used to be meta in PvE, however it's not as necessary as it used to be since PvE was more about 5 man content than 10 man content at that time. The skills are still pretty usefull in PvE context, thought since a quick access to vuln and hard CC is always welcome.Off hand sword was just made outdated by torch when Berserker was introduced, otherwise it used to be (and is still) a good weapon to solo content in PvE. Nowaday, conditions aren't really effective in PvP so the weapon is somehow unpopular there as well.This sums it up. Mace OH is solid single target DPS with a hard CC. OH Sword needs work. That or some Arms traits need reworking to make OH Sword decent by proxy. IMHO I'd like to see either Opportunist or Leg Specialist apply either bleeding, poison, or torment whenever you immobilize a foe. That would make Sword stronger (albeit MH sword though). I suppose you can throw cripple onto Sword 4 or 5 as well to work with what I just mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.5684 Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 Add off hand dagger to the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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