Remove Character Swap In Ranked — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Remove Character Swap In Ranked

Chilli.2976Chilli.2976 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited May 19, 2019 in PVP

We've all done it, for example - queuing as a Druid to force a high possibility to have a Druid on the enemy team, then swapping character at the last second to either counter that class or the team composition.

The other thing I've seen, is "top players" duo queuing as double Necromancer to force either one or two on the enemy team then swapping to double Revenant to counter and steamroll the game.
In a way this is kind of match manipulation as you're abusing how the matching making works.

Simple resolution, the class you queue as, is the class you play and are not allowed to swap once in the game.

Also double stacking classes should not be allowed to queue, unless ArenaNet fixes their algorithm.

Comments

  • Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @steki.1478 said:
    I never understood why character swapping is ok, but changing the build is not. One of the reasons I found pvp obnoxious compared to wvw.

    it would be nice to swap out some skills when you in respawn out of combat. but some say "this is the way its always been".....

    Soon™ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:

    @steki.1478 said:
    I never understood why character swapping is ok, but changing the build is not. One of the reasons I found pvp obnoxious compared to wvw.

    it would be nice to swap out some skills when you in respawn out of combat. but some say "this is the way its always been".....

    I honestly don't see why it's not possible to change the build inside base. Swapping utilities which are on cooldown is I think shared even among elite spec skills.

    Deso's favorite FROG
    Master of afk and kiting
    The God of Pips and Gud Deeps
    Froggo himself

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    yes to both.
    anet cmon already.

    you don't know till you know, ya know.

  • @Euthymias.7984 said:
    Nothing stops the enemy team's Druid from changing as well if they believe their team comp's not gonna work out.
    Nothing's stopping the team from adjusting rotations and strategy to swaps either if a situation arises beyond a lack of interest in adapting, too. Idk about you, but if I Q as one thing and see that my opponents have 2 or 3 specs that may hard counter what I'm playing, I'd rather change and potentially counter (or at least not get countered as hard) than to just have a game decided the moment we ended up matched.

    It's so scuffed though to the point where it's hard to tell if it was intended or not in the first place. Without an SSD people end up slowly swapping back and forth in a sort of weird game of rock paper scissors, and then there's the people who get really sweaty over it, who usually end up leaving their team down a player when the match starts.

    Like people have said, just being able to swap build would be good enough. The matchmaker is exclusively good at mirroring team comps, so it really only creates more issues that people are able to swap characters and abuse that.

    Remove Ranked DuoQ pls&ty

  • Khalisto.5780Khalisto.5780 Member ✭✭✭

    Matchmaking has a long way to go before something like that can be made.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @LolLookAtMyAP.8394 said:
    snips

    interesting.

    you don't know till you know, ya know.

  • Exedore.6320Exedore.6320 Member ✭✭✭

    So much misinformation in this thread.

    1. The classes/specs on your team have next to no influence on the enemy team's composition. The only tiny way it affects anything is that the matchmaker has an every so slight preference to not duplicate professions on a team. So you if you queue as a necro, another necro in the queue is slightly more likely to end up being your opponent than your teammate.

    2. You can change spec in ranked during the ready up period. You cannot change character or spec once the count-down has started in ranked. ATs allow character swapping during play (which should be fixed).

  • Snellibee.2761Snellibee.2761 Member ✭✭✭

    @Exedore.6320 said:
    So much misinformation in this thread.

    1. The classes/specs on your team have next to no influence on the enemy team's composition. The only tiny way it affects anything is that the matchmaker has an every so slight preference to not duplicate professions on a team. So you if you queue as a necro, another necro in the queue is slightly more likely to end up being your opponent than your teammate.

    2. You can change spec in ranked during the ready up period. You cannot change character or spec once the count-down has started in ranked. ATs allow character swapping during play (which should be fixed).

    This is false, Whenever me and a friend duo'd both as Revenants we kept getting double rev in the enemy team aswel. The moment we stopped doing that we'd never get double revenant in the enemy team anymore.

    The MM definitely mimicks your comp and tries to make the exact comp for the enemy team

  • So what happens if by chance you're at a complete disadvantage from the comp matchup? It's not like Dota where teams have turns to pick and can somewhat counterplay.
    "Just deal with it"?

  • Then you are out of luck. This is another problem with the integrity of pvp.

  • Chilli.2976Chilli.2976 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @steki.1478 said:

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:

    @steki.1478 said:
    I never understood why character swapping is ok, but changing the build is not. One of the reasons I found pvp obnoxious compared to wvw.

    it would be nice to swap out some skills when you in respawn out of combat. but some say "this is the way its always been".....

    I honestly don't see why it's not possible to change the build inside base. Swapping utilities which are on cooldown is I think shared even among elite spec skills.

    You can change your build before the match starts, but you should not be allowed to adjust your build while the game is running. It's time based and every second counts, some people might spend 2 minutes adjusting their build and by then you are 3 capped.

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Chilli.2976 said:

    @steki.1478 said:

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:

    @steki.1478 said:
    I never understood why character swapping is ok, but changing the build is not. One of the reasons I found pvp obnoxious compared to wvw.

    it would be nice to swap out some skills when you in respawn out of combat. but some say "this is the way its always been".....

    I honestly don't see why it's not possible to change the build inside base. Swapping utilities which are on cooldown is I think shared even among elite spec skills.

    You can change your build before the match starts, but you should not be allowed to adjust your build while the game is running. It's time based and every second counts, some people might spend 2 minutes adjusting their build and by then you are 3 capped.

    You can do it while being dead. Besides, it's another reason to focus on build templates.

    Deso's favorite FROG
    Master of afk and kiting
    The God of Pips and Gud Deeps
    Froggo himself

  • EmmetOtter.8542EmmetOtter.8542 Member ✭✭✭

    I haven't done gw2 pvp yet but from past experience in other games it sounds like the gw2 queue isn't anonymous and should be. Lock in your character when your queue, load into a pre-fight area where you can adjust your build to compliment your teammates, door opens and fight.

  • Madara.7435Madara.7435 Member ✭✭
    edited May 21, 2019

    since you dont seem to know about this or just dont remember...

    arenanet did a poll on profession locking in arena queue in 2017. since they switched the forums, unfortunately the old posts about this are gone. but i found a video about this on youtube, perhaps you want to check it out https://invidio.us/watch?v=u_2PoMHhbWQ
    as the video suggests, there was not just the poll but also quite some thought put into it at that time. anyway, players voted for leaving the system as is (means swapping is allowed and should stay) with 53%. thats what the guildnews article says about it (german): https://guildnews.de/update-arenanet-umfrage-klassenwechsel-sperre-im-pvp/
    if i remember correctly, people were very much afraid of skyhigh queue times. they wanted quantity over quality, so there you have it.

  • zoopop.5630zoopop.5630 Member ✭✭✭✭

    what I dont understand is Why are we allowed to Swap During At's but Not during Rank when a game has started ? I'm sure it's the same for Monthly? However this whole swapping back and forth in rank is pretty freaking dumb.

    I que as a necro expecting to play against other necros......nope doesn't work like that they'll just swap off necro to play Rev/SoulBeast or Holo. Forcing me to swap so I don't go against double Holo or Double Rev.

    I currently Stop caring if I lose rating at this point and decided Just to play necro no matter what the outcome is.

  • Megametzler.5729Megametzler.5729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Snellibee.2761 said:

    @Exedore.6320 said:
    So much misinformation in this thread.

    1. The classes/specs on your team have next to no influence on the enemy team's composition. The only tiny way it affects anything is that the matchmaker has an every so slight preference to not duplicate professions on a team. So you if you queue as a necro, another necro in the queue is slightly more likely to end up being your opponent than your teammate.

    2. You can change spec in ranked during the ready up period. You cannot change character or spec once the count-down has started in ranked. ATs allow character swapping during play (which should be fixed).

    This is false, Whenever me and a friend duo'd both as Revenants we kept getting double rev in the enemy team aswel. The moment we stopped doing that we'd never get double revenant in the enemy team anymore.

    The MM definitely mimicks your comp and tries to make the exact comp for the enemy team

    Yepp, you are right. It is probably not forced, but somewhat preferred by the matchmaker, see: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Matchmaking_Algorithm

    adjust score by profession counts
    for profession in allProfessions:
    # roster has none of these professions
    if roster.count(profession) == 0:
    continue

    (...)

    # favor matching professions between teams
    if team.count(profession) < otherTeam.count(profession):
    score += config.professions.matching

    We don't know exactly how this score works though. It also unlikely you can change the other team's composition - except by forcing fewer of your classes in your own team. That necro thing is totally possible, that druid thing only when it comes to preventing him on your own team. Might be he meant that.

  • Engal.6359Engal.6359 Member ✭✭

    @steki.1478 said:
    I never understood why character swapping is ok, but changing the build is not. One of the reasons I found pvp obnoxious compared to wvw.

    But you can change your build...

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Engal.6359 said:

    @steki.1478 said:
    I never understood why character swapping is ok, but changing the build is not. One of the reasons I found pvp obnoxious compared to wvw.

    But you can change your build...

    Not during the match.

    Deso's favorite FROG
    Master of afk and kiting
    The God of Pips and Gud Deeps
    Froggo himself

  • Khalisto.5780Khalisto.5780 Member ✭✭✭

    let's say this gets implemented, what we do when we're in a team with thw losing comp?

    I think the matchmaking flaws are bigger than the matchmaking exploiters for this to be done

    by now this is some sort of hotfix

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I have 32 toons and swap all the time..

    I swap from Celestial Tempest to Mender Tempest if we have no support.
    I swap from Menders Tempest to marauder Tempest if our team is too bunkery
    I swap from Marauder Temp to Celestial Temp if our team lacks side noders...

    ... and so on.

  • crepuscular.9047crepuscular.9047 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 22, 2019

    yeah... i raised the same topic just 2 months ago
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/71562/class-switching-is-getting-way-too-out-of-hand

    My view in the fairness and randomness of ranked, you shouldn't be able to swap class for ranked; you can change your build to compensate your team or provide some degree of counter to another class on the opposite team.

    With the variety of different builds a single class can be readjusted to, I don't see the need to class swap to be a valid reason

    There will be always those who are against it for reason such as 'the matchup algorithm suck kitten, therefore I'm entitled to swap' to 'I like for open world farm with another toon while queuing up'

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    ... til Aurene ate him for dessert 😭
  • Xcution.4768Xcution.4768 Member ✭✭

    @Chilli.2976 said:
    We've all done it, for example - queuing as a Druid to force a high possibility to have a Druid on the enemy team, then swapping character at the last second to either counter that class or the team composition.

    The other thing I've seen, is "top players" duo queuing as double Necromancer to force either one or two on the enemy team then swapping to double Revenant to counter and steamroll the game.
    In a way this is kind of match manipulation as you're abusing how the matching making works.

    Simple resolution, the class you queue as, is the class you play and are not allowed to swap once in the game.

    Also double stacking classes should not be allowed to queue, unless ArenaNet fixes their algorithm.

    Feels bad man when you use druid as an example ........i am druid main. I am sure you would like to fight vs stronlo / headcrowned when they are playing druid.

  • Chilli.2976Chilli.2976 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Xcution.4768 said:

    @Chilli.2976 said:
    We've all done it, for example - queuing as a Druid to force a high possibility to have a Druid on the enemy team, then swapping character at the last second to either counter that class or the team composition.

    The other thing I've seen, is "top players" duo queuing as double Necromancer to force either one or two on the enemy team then swapping to double Revenant to counter and steamroll the game.
    In a way this is kind of match manipulation as you're abusing how the matching making works.

    Simple resolution, the class you queue as, is the class you play and are not allowed to swap once in the game.

    Also double stacking classes should not be allowed to queue, unless ArenaNet fixes their algorithm.

    Feels bad man when you use druid as an example ........i am druid main. I am sure you would like to fight vs stronlo / headcrowned when they are playing druid.

    No offence intended, was just using Druid as an example as its the least played class in ranked at the moment, and usually the people that play it are not very good..

  • Ovark.2514Ovark.2514 Member ✭✭✭

    @steki.1478 said:
    I never understood why character swapping is ok, but changing the build is not. One of the reasons I found pvp obnoxious compared to wvw.

    Character swapping is ok because anet caters to PvE-ers. These players are probably farming on classes they enjoy in PvE while they switch to they preferred PvP class when the queue pops. It's what I do anyway. . . Why waste time standing around in the sPVP lobby?

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ovark.2514 said:

    @steki.1478 said:
    I never understood why character swapping is ok, but changing the build is not. One of the reasons I found pvp obnoxious compared to wvw.

    Character swapping is ok because anet caters to PvE-ers. These players are probably farming on classes they enjoy in PvE while they switch to they preferred PvP class when the queue pops. It's what I do anyway. . . Why waste time standing around in the sPVP lobby?

    Idk, some people don't see any value in farming pve lol

    Deso's favorite FROG
    Master of afk and kiting
    The God of Pips and Gud Deeps
    Froggo himself

  • Ganathar.4956Ganathar.4956 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ovark.2514 said:

    @steki.1478 said:
    I never understood why character swapping is ok, but changing the build is not. One of the reasons I found pvp obnoxious compared to wvw.

    Character swapping is ok because anet caters to PvE-ers. These players are probably farming on classes they enjoy in PvE while they switch to they preferred PvP class when the queue pops. It's what I do anyway. . . Why waste time standing around in the sPVP lobby?

    It doesn't have to be this way. MOBAs have a solution to this and they don't even have PvE. When a match is starting you can select the character that you want to play as and you can see what each member of your team selects in real time. Just make it so you have to select your character in a sPvP character select menu like MOBAs do, and that problem is gone.

  • dronte.3416dronte.3416 Member ✭✭

    @Chilli.2976 said:
    We've all done it, for example - queuing as a Druid to force a high possibility to have a Druid on the enemy team, then swapping character at the last second to either counter that class or the team composition.

    The other thing I've seen, is "top players" duo queuing as double Necromancer to force either one or two on the enemy team then swapping to double Revenant to counter and steamroll the game.
    In a way this is kind of match manipulation as you're abusing how the matching making works.

    Simple resolution, the class you queue as, is the class you play and are not allowed to swap once in the game.

    Also double stacking classes should not be allowed to queue, unless ArenaNet fixes their algorithm.

    I'm pretty sure that the algorythm takes professions into account but not elite specs. That means you can queue as a druid but there is an equal chance of having a core ranger or soulbeast on the enemy team. Which are basically entirely different specializations and you have no control over it. Add this to all other points listed in this topic, and you realize character swapping has a very slight effect on the actual team composition and outcome of the game.

  • zoopop.5630zoopop.5630 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Issue I have with Class Swapping :

    1: Class Stacking of the Same spec can be a BIG issue Because If players Don't Want a Necro on the team they'll Que as One and then swap off For something Like Rev or Holo.(this is big because the current power creep in the game makes it fairly easy to farm necro players if they aren't experience enough to defend themselves)

    2: Team Comp Could get A lot worse depending on what the player is planning to swap l(If we have a Spell Breaker or Scrapper already and they swap to another Spell Breaker that swap is already hurting the team due to the lack of dps role being filled)

    those are the 2 biggest issues i have with class swapping during a game....

  • Vieux P.1238Vieux P.1238 Member ✭✭✭✭

    To OP's ... This is not going to fix anything

  • Ovark.2514Ovark.2514 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ganathar.4956 said:

    @Ovark.2514 said:

    @steki.1478 said:
    I never understood why character swapping is ok, but changing the build is not. One of the reasons I found pvp obnoxious compared to wvw.

    Character swapping is ok because anet caters to PvE-ers. These players are probably farming on classes they enjoy in PvE while they switch to they preferred PvP class when the queue pops. It's what I do anyway. . . Why waste time standing around in the sPVP lobby?

    It doesn't have to be this way. MOBAs have a solution to this and they don't even have PvE. When a match is starting you can select the character that you want to play as and you can see what each member of your team selects in real time. Just make it so you have to select your character in a sPvP character select menu like MOBAs do, and that problem is gone.

    This is the logical solution. Anet doesn't care about sPVP so we don't get a logical solution. . . or any for that matter.

  • Chilli.2976Chilli.2976 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vieux P.1238 said:
    To OP's ... This is not going to fix anything

    Not "everything" but this is a start.

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