A high plead

Since we all can agree upon the fact Thief needs serious look into and we all can agree upon the fact that the changes done over the years didn't benefit it much. I say we ask Anet for lets say a disscussion thread that would happen sometime over weekend. One of the Devs would come to a game to sit with us Thieves 1 group in US and other in EU in PVP Arena made by Anet with a certain regulations to prevent text spamming etc. and we would show him in form of encounters with other proffesions how bad the situation rly is. Also we could finally get some feedback on weather it is okay with them or no if they are willing to share. I am going to tag this thread with @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 since it is the only person in PvP team that i heard of and I would like them to be aware of this poll. Also I would ask you Thief mains (Please if you dont play Thief at least 8 h a week dont vote so the demographic isnt affected by it) to come and vote in here weather you would like this to happen or no. Because lets be frank we all say Anet doesn't listen so lets ask them to listen so pls vote here Yes or No thank you.

can you please elaborate a bit more what you want to do? i mean just sitting in LA with the devs and spamm 'buff teef' for 2 hours seems to me a waste of time.

i would much more prefer communication in the forums where you can take your time to formulate a decent proposal. it would be nice for example if anet could tell us what roles we should be able to cover and what 'issues' they try to prevent so that we can give feedback on how we would handle that. optimally do that for all professions, not for us to actually vote on how it is done but to give them more ideas.a big problem i see is that many people talk mostly on how other professions shall be changed, wich not always has in mind to also keep that other profession/build viable. and even within a profession people try to change builds they dont play, in hopes that their own get buffed as compensation. this way its really hard for anet to actually see who has some expertise in the build they are talking about.now if anet did set a frame for suggestions in saying what role the specific build shall still fullfil and what issues need to be dealt with, we can give much better feedback and not just overbuffing/overnerfing. if needed use the forum messaging for 'hidden feedback' so people are not too much affected by what they read for the feedback but how they themselves think about it. i think they even got enough data to see if it is feedback from someone playing the specific build or profession enough or if it is feedback from an outside view (wich is still important to spot a precieved issue, but the suggestions often show a lack of understanding the build).

@MUDse.7623 said:can you please elaborate a bit more what you want to do? i mean just sitting in LA with the devs and spamm 'buff teef' for 2 hours seems to me a waste of time.

No not this. Dear god rly man? Okay let me adjust it a bit so ppl can understand it.Okay to explain it also in comment. We would have a PvP Anet Arena with a map on it (lets say Arena) Where we could come to discuss with a dev that would be in there. Some rules could be applied so ppl dont spam/talk over each other Maye put a mote like there is in Spirits watch and who has it can talk in chat. And we could debate / perform various skills Thief has atm to be able to messure the output of our dps in PvP so it is visible how bad the situation is AND so the Dev can see it for himself. Like for example if a DrD has problem with facing lb soulbeast cuz Swipe range is too short someone who could will bring in a Meta build of LB SB and to witness the issue Distance causes DrD would 1v1 sb with a standard rotation. (This is rly broad example it is only to show what i mean) There is many issues with certain builds such as is d/p so we could show that it hits like a wet noodle against lets say a Holo smith. De could present the issue with Stealth duration on dodge ETC.

EDIT

AlsoI understand the idea of them telling us what they would like to know we think is bad. The problem is they think everything is okay at least as far as we can see in patch notes and in amount of interaction so we need to come to them to tell them to look at certain stuff because it is just not cool. I udnerstand it would be a lot of data to process so we lets say can present only the builds that are main for the class. Anyway we rly dont have many of them d/d d/p p/d p/p s/d s/p staff and rifle that is 8 builds that can be both condi or power and only 2 of them are srsly condi oriented so major issue is power dps so we are going to deal with that one anyway

yes lets have some gold tier condi thief players give some suggestion on how to move forward

@bluri.2653 said:yes lets have some gold tier condi thief players give some suggestion on how to move forward

I mean some god tier tic toc Core thieves that werent affected by last patch can come say something to them as well I have never said otherwise. After all i will finally get that chance to put some Noodle traps under some unspecified feet there

EDITAlso if you want to be salty and pun-full dont type here it is a serious poll i am trying to find out how many thieves actually care about state of our class. The fact I am not in Legendary doesnt undermind the fact Thief in general is not doing well

I agree with @"bluri.2653". As much i would like to see something like this happening and even participate in it myself. There are way too many people suggesting way too many things. I mean there are already a lot of topics about "how to fix" or "things i would like to see/change". and again, everyone has their thought about what is right or wrong. Coming together with a dev with this amount wont do much because of that quantity. There for i believe that filtering it out, to say "top (x) players" or "situation x" will be more effective. And perhaps more importantly, split the balance between game modes.

@Jack Redline.5379 said:

@bluri.2653 said:yes lets have some gold tier condi thief players give some suggestion on how to move forward

Says the disrespectful guy who basically hates on every and any 1 who has a different view.

I played Thief for thousands of hours, thousands of matches, many years and have several tons of them, but lately didn't play it 8h a week at all... guess that rules me out from the poll...

@TorQ.7041 said:

@Jack Redline.5379 said:

@bluri.2653 said:yes lets have some gold tier condi thief players give some suggestion on how to move forward

yeah cus neither you or jack should be allowed anything near called balance

Just to sum it up for you:

Jack wants condi thief to be a thing and feels thief is in a bad state while hes playing 1 trap with dash and dagger/dagger #3 spamYou want thief to be able to be an assassin in conquest pvp to 1v1 classes due to some description in character screen.

Did i get it right?

you don't need to be a thief player to know that this is a waste of time (this would be a waste of time no matter the class)

and yes, i do play thief

@GWMO.4785 said:I agree with @"bluri.2653". As much i would like to see something like this happening and even participate in it myself. There are way too many people suggesting way too many things. I mean there are already a lot of topics about "how to fix" or "things i would like to see/change". and again, everyone has their thought about what is right or wrong. Coming together with a dev with this amount wont do much because of that quantity. There for i believe that filtering it out, to say "top (x) players" or "situation x" will be more effective. And perhaps more importantly, split the balance between game modes.

Okay filtering it according to a situation or encounter would be beneficial. But as i alraedy mentioned and I have changed it in the text as well since Mudse noted it as well. We would actually be only discussing encounters to collect Data. Dev would be there to see it for himself so he can evaluate it and present it to the rest of the Dev team. Ofc we will not be standing in a circle passing stick of speech and everyone will say what they think. And yea spliting it between modes would be good since WvW and PvP have little in common

@"bluri.2653" said:

Jack wants condi thief to be a thing and feels thief is in a bad state while hes playing 1 trap with dash and dagger/dagger #3 spamYou want thief to be able to be an assassin in conquest pvp to 1v1 classes due to some description in character screen.

Did i get it right?

Times have changed and you completely missed my build mateI can give you a link to it if it pleases. And the rotation I use has 3 spam only in case i am srsly overwhelmed by enemy = 2+ v meif i knew ppl I duel with and play with are here on forums i would ask them to come here to testify it I do not smap unless there is no way out and i need those extra 2 3 sec to reset my heal or DS or traphere is the build bare in mind effects of the runes are a bit altered and also the DrD traits are altered

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAoYVn8lCFOhtNB+OB0PhltiybCigLQLFDgyaO5f+pH-jJxBQBGc/BMcCAAwDAgilBAA

I am also altering it if there is many casters in other team so here is the other one

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAoYVn8lCNmitNB+OB0PhltiSLFDgyaO5f+p3bCqxLA-jJxBQBY4EAQxyAGc/BA8AAAA

From time to time i even go w/o improv and i equip Potent Poison

You think you know how much I suck and how much bad thief i am and how much i am not on your level but only fighting you so far had with me is on forum where we pull each other noses

Also Torq is right about the assassin type of a Thief it is a thief that attacks from stealth and backstabs ppl so power dmg should be adequate to that. In TF2 a spy insta kills ppl if he is disguised = enemies dont know he is enemy which basically equals stealth since they dont see it coming either so the idea of assasin thief isnt that deviated from the opportunity you get if your opponent doesnt know you are there

Also you darling play tic toc s/d core thief that atm cant One shot not even a thief. And your build is the actuall food for any type of Trap build class. So the fact you are up there in legendary ranks doesnt make you god himself it only means you dont spam #3 but you spam #2

@TorQ.7041 said:

as far as it comes to you I am not being disrespectful. Respect is earned. And nobody so far yuo think i am being disrespectful towards has earned mine respect yet since i think i dont even know those ppl or they simply never did anything that would be respect worthy that i would know of. I have never argued with you as far as i know i am trying to be nice but dayumn if you guys on here dont give me a rush then nobody in whole world does.

@Alatar.7364 said:I played Thief for thousands of hours, thousands of matches, many years and have several tons of them, but lately didn't play it 8h a week at all... guess that rules me out from the poll...

DUDE pls dont troll not you at least one person who actually makes sense in most of the threads pls just vote if you agree or no as you see i have enough salt here alreadyWhole poll is already going down the drain anyway just say something constructive pls

jack your build is nothing but terrible, thats the reason why you are at gold lad. I'd kill you with shortbow only.

just a fyi for anyone here, we used to discuss balance changes back when esl/pro leauge/lan existed, you think they listened then? no.and now you think anet will have a dev discussing with random gold players on how to balance?

hilarious.

Theres a discord already with a dev+ben in it where most top players already suggest balancing, the game is still going down the drain and no changes are made even thought its getting suggested

only guy on the forums so far that has good ideas that actually knows what needs to be done is @DeceiverX.8361

That is the funny thing actually about these forumsIf anyone tries to say something constructive or to tell others that he saw something was wrong or is confused you always see ppl flying down upon that dude and not talk about it sensibly but they start salting and making fun of what he she said and then we are suprised Anet doesnt do a thing to buff thief. OBV they dont only thing we do on here is argue about who can pp furhter and that the build someone uses is braindead and that he is rude and becky was naughty to me on sundays hat party. If i were Anet i would already shut down the forums or at least Thief subforum since this is all we do here. It is not a constructive criticism and it is not a discussion over what could be improved it is Kindergarten courtyard where kids fight over who gets to use bucket to build on the sand

@bluri.2653 said:jack your build is nothing but terrible, thats the reason why you are at gold lad. I'd kill you with shortbow only.

and why is my build terrible? i would srsly like to know this no cringe or sarcasm i would like to know this beacuse this is the only Trapper build out there and I made it and i play it for rly long and i did get to palt with it this season was simply ruined for me cuz of Swipe change so why do you think it is terrible

@Jack Redline.5379 said:

@"bluri.2653" said:jack your build is nothing but terrible, thats the reason why you are at gold lad. I'd kill you with shortbow only.

your build is a duelist build due to D/D and lotus, you have almost no cover condi's with your utilities which means you won't beat any class in 1v1. You try to roam around and play it as a +1 makes it slow cus u run lotus so no swiftness to move around map even tho u have sb5. D/D has no good follow up in a +1 so it ends up being terrible. teamfighting? yeah no.

Your build fills no purpose in conquest at the higher levels. Either you play it more towards what vallun showed in a recent video:

@bluri.2653 said:

but i can literally go to game and show you i can 1v1 absolutely anything and win it (maybe not in the first try yea stuff happens i can screw my rotation) but i have beat all the elites and classes with that build moreover I can beat a water based weaver with it I did I have like you are saying it cant 1v1 even tho i have milion times 1v1ed with it and wonYou gonna say it is cuz it is lower gold. Well no i am visiting 1v1 arenas and i am playing with high tiers as well and i can win against those as well. And as far as rotation of nodes goes it is performable you dont need that much speed and sb can cover it fast enough.i get it that maybe in lege ranks average game takes 2 minutes but that doesnt mean i cant 1v1 with that buildI know i can rely on that build that is why i keep playing it

EDITalso lol xD p/d rly? You think p/d can beat my build? xD loland also to that that you can beat me with sb i srsly dont think you could not while i have 2 legs and can kite

@Jack Redline.5379 said:

@"Alatar.7364" said:I played Thief for thousands of hours, thousands of matches, many years and have several tons of them, but lately didn't play it 8h a week at all... guess that rules me out from the poll...

I didn't mean to troll, but I can't vote either. I agree with the whole idea but not its execution, hence why I can't vote that its Waste of Time either. What you suggest would be more easily done on simple Forum thread with Dev present, which would at least allow regulation of spam and potential trolls, rather than literal in game meeting.Nonetheless I am too a bit sceptical for I know, as Sind says, that there have been attempts already established and yet nothing changes anyway. Of course that doesn't mean nothing should be attempted again because doing nothing while complaining that nothing changes is just dumb, like I said I am just a bit sceptical, maybe even "exhausted".

@Alatar.7364 said:

@Jack Redline.5379 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:I played Thief for thousands of hours, thousands of matches, many years and have several tons of them, but lately didn't play it 8h a week at all... guess that rules me out from the poll...

I mean as i already said, there is already a discord up with a dev present + ben with various "top players" suggesting balancing but nothing gets fixed anyway no matter how much you talk about it. I am not even in there cus its just a waste of time

No disrespect to anyone here but arenanet should be and should have already been listening to players like bluri and other players that have been maining thief in high level play for years. They would have the best idea how to incorporate thief changes to make them more competitive against the other classes especially if thief specs were to be changed to fill different roles like 1v1 instead of being a decapper slave.Unfortunately this thread is a waste though due to the fact that arenanet not only hasn't been listening to these players but hasn't been listening to any thief players over the years. The class has been molded by non thief players and seemingly clueless devs making changes leaving the long time competing thief players scratching their heads as to the intentions of the changes.

@"GWMO.4785" said:There for i believe that filtering it out, to say "top (x) players" will be more effective.

Sounds like a terrible idea, just because someone has a high PvP rank doesn't mean that he is capable of giving objective and unbiased feedback.

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:No disrespect to anyone here but arenanet should be and should have already been listening to players like bluri and other players that have been maining thief in high level play for years. They would have the best idea how to incorporate thief changes to make them more competitive against the other classes especially if thief specs were to be changed to fill different roles like 1v1 instead of being a decapper slave.

While I know exactly what you mean by the highlighted sentence, I think (definitely not alone in that) that one of the biggest factors in Thief balance is the actual balance of other professions among themselves.For Thief to be something else than just +1 all professions need to be de-powercrept and/or slightly redesigned, trimmed even. While I'd absolutely love for Thief to be able to 1v1 reliably (or for DD), it most likely can't be achieved by changing only Thief, however I came to believe that such changes to all will most likely never happen, hence my lasting skepticism, to me it just looks like that it's easier for Thieves to make/demand Anet change thief rather than change everything around and so they (us) do that, which inevitably results in not so much great changes at all. While this sounds as if I thought that Thief is a center of a galaxy it is not the point, I just think the game would be better of when all else would be close to Thief balance rather than equipping Thief to survive in current balance environment of other professions, it just happens to be Thief that I genuinely think is closest.

@Alatar.7364 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:No disrespect to anyone here but arenanet should be and should have already been listening to players like bluri and other players that have been maining thief in high level play for years. They would have the best idea how

to incorporate thief changes to make them more competitive against the other classes

especially if thief specs were to be changed to fill different roles like 1v1 instead of being a decapper slave.

I agree that it's not so much that thief is weak as it is the powercreep of other classes that are the bigger issue unfortunately arenanet are not in the habit of decrease powercreep in classes in any meaningful way, as the past has shown many times often just adding more powercreep to the game as a bandaid fix seems to be their prefered method. So if powercreep is never decreased enough among the classes to put thief in a good spot and or thief isn't powercrept itself than it stays in the position it's in.Even updating and bug fixing traps,venoms and other thief utilities might bring them up to a better position,add to that some qol things like cast time reductions etc but they dont even do that as thief traps are still a tiny strip that does little or a bugged mess. Think maybe we just gotta accept what the devs do and if cant just switch classes or games. Maybe they'll learn on their next project :)