My Heals Are Bad — Guild Wars 2 Forums

My Heals Are Bad

After years of mesmering, I've come to the conclusion that my heals are bad.

Technically, I already knew this since I've used various means of supporting it (food, for instance) but it wasn't until recently I realized that there was something seriously lacking to begin with in the core profession.

Why are they bad? Very simply put, between managing clones and wells and aoes, I rarely have the time to heal up as well. So the reason I fail is almost always not being able to pull off a heal when it's needed, which is constantly unless we're talking low-level mobs and they're never a concern anyway.

The thief profession handles this much, much better; you can add plenty of sustain with heals on using initiative, heals on crits, heals on attack, heals on evade, heals on struck with low health.... you can find the level you want easily and actually focus on playing. Elementalists have a much better balance too, I find, and these are the professions I would compare with with a similar high mobility squishiness playstyle.

All I've got is the crappy Ether Feast and random chance. Avoid being hit? Good in theory, in practice this is the reason why playing mesmer well is difficult, especially since it's all about the shatter these days. We can't all be mirages, you know. Being hard to master is one of the things that drew me to the profession, but y'know what? Artificial difficulty isn't what it should be like. Yes, you can be pretty godlike provided that you have the time to git gud and maybe I'll get there too but that's irrelevant because it applies to everything.

The point is that few of us have that much time to put in and that's what leaves mesmer a crappy class for everyone beginner to moderate. Very simply put, the class should require less micromanaging and thus less elitist so that we may be enjoyed by everyone. Balancing is the name of the game.

Comments

  • flog.3485flog.3485 Member ✭✭✭

    You do realize you also invulnerability frames? On demand f4 distortion ? Blocks ? Teleports? And stealth? Actually like a thief to some extent, except you have a higher health pool.

    You obviously can’t rely exclusively on heals to sustain yourself.

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @flog.3485 said:
    You do realize you also invulnerability frames? On demand f4 distortion ? Blocks ? Teleports? And stealth? Actually like a thief to some extent, except you have a higher health pool.

    You obviously can’t rely exclusively on heals to sustain yourself.

    That doesnt make bad heals any better, the only good heal I would call is mirage heal

  • Ansau.7326Ansau.7326 Member ✭✭✭

    @flog.3485 said:
    You do realize you also invulnerability frames? On demand f4 distortion ? Blocks ? Teleports? And stealth? Actually like a thief to some extent, except you have a higher health pool.

    You obviously can’t rely exclusively on heals to sustain yourself.

    Like mesmer were the only ones with access to invulnerability frames.
    In fact, even in such department mesmer are in the worst places possible, considering most other professions have heals with INBUILT invulnerabilities.

    Still, it doesn't change the fact mesmer heals are on the bottom of healing list, pared with conditional performance making them harder to throw their already limited potential.

  • LolLookAtMyAP.8394LolLookAtMyAP.8394 Member ✭✭✭

    Core mesmer is bad, Chronomancer can be extremely tanky and Mirage can be extremely evasive.

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @LolLookAtMyAP.8394 said:
    Core mesmer is bad, Chronomancer can be extremely tanky and Mirage can be extremely evasive.

    A lot of other classes outevade mesmer without a sweat. Chronomancer is "tanky" only because of signet-distortion trait, if you are looking for tanky build you should look after scrapper

  • Zexanima.7851Zexanima.7851 Member ✭✭✭

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @LolLookAtMyAP.8394 said:
    Core mesmer is bad, Chronomancer can be extremely tanky and Mirage can be extremely evasive.

    A lot of other classes outevade mesmer without a sweat. Chronomancer is "tanky" only because of signet-distortion trait, if you are looking for tanky build you should look after scrapper

    You also have continuum split, echo of memory, blurred frenzy, invisibility, and blinks. It may not be able to face tank like a scrapper or warrior but they are still pretty good at mitigating damage. A well played chrono can be hard as hell to kill.

    No longer playing the game due to PvP being abandon.

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 21, 2019

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @LolLookAtMyAP.8394 said:
    Core mesmer is bad, Chronomancer can be extremely tanky and Mirage can be extremely evasive.

    A lot of other classes outevade mesmer without a sweat. Chronomancer is "tanky" only because of signet-distortion trait, if you are looking for tanky build you should look after scrapper

    You also have continuum split, echo of memory, blurred frenzy, invisibility, and blinks. It may not be able to face tank like a scrapper or warrior but they are still pretty good at mitigating damage. A well played chrono can be hard as hell to kill.

    What the point of having such chrono which is the only thing he can do is try to not die ?

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @LolLookAtMyAP.8394 said:
    Core mesmer is bad, Chronomancer can be extremely tanky and Mirage can be extremely evasive.

    A lot of other classes outevade mesmer without a sweat. Chronomancer is "tanky" only because of signet-distortion trait, if you are looking for tanky build you should look after scrapper

    You also have continuum split, echo of memory, blurred frenzy, invisibility, and blinks. It may not be able to face tank like a scrapper or warrior but they are still pretty good at mitigating damage. A well played chrono can be hard as hell to kill.

    What the point of having such chrono which is the only thing he can do is try to not die ?

    They can do decent enough damage. They also provide excellent utility and group support. The point I'm getting at is you don't have to heal if you don't take the damage in the first place.

    Yet, you have to present such build as I dont know any chrono build that can facetank as good and do damage in same time. Last time I dueled top10 mesmer friend with a warrior, I trashed his chrono bunker/power chrono/mirage power/mirage condi with 1 hand

  • flog.3485flog.3485 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 21, 2019

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @LolLookAtMyAP.8394 said:
    Core mesmer is bad, Chronomancer can be extremely tanky and Mirage can be extremely evasive.

    A lot of other classes outevade mesmer without a sweat. Chronomancer is "tanky" only because of signet-distortion trait, if you are looking for tanky build you should look after scrapper

    You also have continuum split, echo of memory, blurred frenzy, invisibility, and blinks. It may not be able to face tank like a scrapper or warrior but they are still pretty good at mitigating damage. A well played chrono can be hard as hell to kill.

    What the point of having such chrono which is the only thing he can do is try to not die ?

    They can do decent enough damage. They also provide excellent utility and group support. The point I'm getting at is you don't have to heal if you don't take the damage in the first place.

    Yet, you have to present such build as I dont know any chrono build that can facetank as good and do damage in same time. Last time I dueled top10 mesmer friend with a warrior, I trashed his chrono bunker/power chrono/mirage power/mirage condi with 1 hand

    that is because warrior rampage is just overtuned. It has nothing to do with how weak mesmer heal is.
    Edit: And frankly, if mesmer heals were so good to the point where you got high heals with high damages, it would become unbalanced and OP as hell.

  • Solori.6025Solori.6025 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @LolLookAtMyAP.8394 said:
    Core mesmer is bad, Chronomancer can be extremely tanky and Mirage can be extremely evasive.

    A lot of other classes outevade mesmer without a sweat. Chronomancer is "tanky" only because of signet-distortion trait, if you are looking for tanky build you should look after scrapper

    You also have continuum split, echo of memory, blurred frenzy, invisibility, and blinks. It may not be able to face tank like a scrapper or warrior but they are still pretty good at mitigating damage. A well played chrono can be hard as hell to kill.

    What the point of having such chrono which is the only thing he can do is try to not die ?

    They can do decent enough damage. They also provide excellent utility and group support. The point I'm getting at is you don't have to heal if you don't take the damage in the first place.

    I would love to see that build. So far it has
    Great dps, personal and group utility, is tanky, and has good heals.
    If this build exist ( it doesn't)makes you wonder why people are complaining about holo and not mes right?

    Tingle my stingleberry

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 21, 2019

    @flog.3485 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @LolLookAtMyAP.8394 said:
    Core mesmer is bad, Chronomancer can be extremely tanky and Mirage can be extremely evasive.

    A lot of other classes outevade mesmer without a sweat. Chronomancer is "tanky" only because of signet-distortion trait, if you are looking for tanky build you should look after scrapper

    You also have continuum split, echo of memory, blurred frenzy, invisibility, and blinks. It may not be able to face tank like a scrapper or warrior but they are still pretty good at mitigating damage. A well played chrono can be hard as hell to kill.

    What the point of having such chrono which is the only thing he can do is try to not die ?

    They can do decent enough damage. They also provide excellent utility and group support. The point I'm getting at is you don't have to heal if you don't take the damage in the first place.

    Yet, you have to present such build as I dont know any chrono build that can facetank as good and do damage in same time. Last time I dueled top10 mesmer friend with a warrior, I trashed his chrono bunker/power chrono/mirage power/mirage condi with 1 hand

    that is because warrior rampage is just overtuned. It has nothing to do with how weak mesmer heal is.
    Edit: And frankly, if mesmer heals were so good to the point where you got high heals with high damages, it would become unbalanced and OP as hell.

    Never used rampage in any of the duels. It was suddenly about "great facetanksmer chrono'
    Mesmer healing skill is high tier garbage.
    Healing skill doesnt do damage unless its revenant shiro heal. Which healing skill does damage aside this?
    Would you like to explain yourself ?

  • flog.3485flog.3485 Member ✭✭✭

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @flog.3485 said:
    You do realize you also invulnerability frames? On demand f4 distortion ? Blocks ? Teleports? And stealth? Actually like a thief to some extent, except you have a higher health pool.

    You obviously can’t rely exclusively on heals to sustain yourself.

    That doesnt make bad heals any better, the only good heal I would call is mirage heal

    And yet, you don't need to heal that much if you have so many ways to evade/mitigate damages.

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 21, 2019

    @flog.3485 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @flog.3485 said:
    You do realize you also invulnerability frames? On demand f4 distortion ? Blocks ? Teleports? And stealth? Actually like a thief to some extent, except you have a higher health pool.

    You obviously can’t rely exclusively on heals to sustain yourself.

    That doesnt make bad heals any better, the only good heal I would call is mirage heal

    And yet, you don't need to heal that much if you have so many ways to evade/mitigate damages.

    As good example of GREAT damage and GREAT heal in same time you dont need to walk too far, holosmith - healing turret,AED .
    As I said , mesmer evades got gudded through nerfing core weapons that had block/evasion, vigor access lowered to necromancer/guardian level. Many classes has more evades than mesmer as they have not just vigor but special traits that boost it beyond normal vigor endurance gain.
    More questions ?

  • flog.3485flog.3485 Member ✭✭✭

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @flog.3485 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @LolLookAtMyAP.8394 said:
    Core mesmer is bad, Chronomancer can be extremely tanky and Mirage can be extremely evasive.

    A lot of other classes outevade mesmer without a sweat. Chronomancer is "tanky" only because of signet-distortion trait, if you are looking for tanky build you should look after scrapper

    You also have continuum split, echo of memory, blurred frenzy, invisibility, and blinks. It may not be able to face tank like a scrapper or warrior but they are still pretty good at mitigating damage. A well played chrono can be hard as hell to kill.

    What the point of having such chrono which is the only thing he can do is try to not die ?

    They can do decent enough damage. They also provide excellent utility and group support. The point I'm getting at is you don't have to heal if you don't take the damage in the first place.

    Yet, you have to present such build as I dont know any chrono build that can facetank as good and do damage in same time. Last time I dueled top10 mesmer friend with a warrior, I trashed his chrono bunker/power chrono/mirage power/mirage condi with 1 hand

    that is because warrior rampage is just overtuned. It has nothing to do with how weak mesmer heal is.
    Edit: And frankly, if mesmer heals were so good to the point where you got high heals with high damages, it would become unbalanced and OP as hell.

    Never used rampage in any of the duels. It was suddenly about "great facetanksmer chrono'
    Mesmer healing skill is high tier garbage.
    Healing skill doesnt do damage unless its revenant shiro heal. Which healing skill does damage aside this?
    Would like like to explain yourself ?

    Sorry for the confusion. I never wanted to say that mesmer heals were doing damages, I was only trying to say that good damages paired with high heals is unbalanced, especially when you get so many ways to mitigate/evade damages.
    I would also like to add 1v1 balance should never be taken consideration since the only mode you have is 5v5.

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 21, 2019

    @flog.3485 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @flog.3485 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @LolLookAtMyAP.8394 said:
    Core mesmer is bad, Chronomancer can be extremely tanky and Mirage can be extremely evasive.

    A lot of other classes outevade mesmer without a sweat. Chronomancer is "tanky" only because of signet-distortion trait, if you are looking for tanky build you should look after scrapper

    You also have continuum split, echo of memory, blurred frenzy, invisibility, and blinks. It may not be able to face tank like a scrapper or warrior but they are still pretty good at mitigating damage. A well played chrono can be hard as hell to kill.

    What the point of having such chrono which is the only thing he can do is try to not die ?

    They can do decent enough damage. They also provide excellent utility and group support. The point I'm getting at is you don't have to heal if you don't take the damage in the first place.

    Yet, you have to present such build as I dont know any chrono build that can facetank as good and do damage in same time. Last time I dueled top10 mesmer friend with a warrior, I trashed his chrono bunker/power chrono/mirage power/mirage condi with 1 hand

    that is because warrior rampage is just overtuned. It has nothing to do with how weak mesmer heal is.
    Edit: And frankly, if mesmer heals were so good to the point where you got high heals with high damages, it would become unbalanced and OP as hell.

    Never used rampage in any of the duels. It was suddenly about "great facetanksmer chrono'
    Mesmer healing skill is high tier garbage.
    Healing skill doesnt do damage unless its revenant shiro heal. Which healing skill does damage aside this?
    Would like like to explain yourself ?

    Sorry for the confusion. I never wanted to say that mesmer heals were doing damages, I was only trying to say that good damages paired with high heals is unbalanced, especially when you get so many ways to mitigate/evade damages.

    Holosmith out-evading poor mesmers with ease, take adrenal implant which is pretty much taken by everyone, what this 6 seconds of quickness when you evade spam like you are daredevil and cooling forge to never be in danger for overheat ? 3 seconds block that can do 10k damage to you ? Invul? Their healing skill can be safely blasted to get 10-12k heals on 20s cd. Stealth on toolbelt for 6s.
    Have you ever seen holos or only mesmers?

  • flog.3485flog.3485 Member ✭✭✭

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @flog.3485 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @flog.3485 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @LolLookAtMyAP.8394 said:
    Core mesmer is bad, Chronomancer can be extremely tanky and Mirage can be extremely evasive.

    A lot of other classes outevade mesmer without a sweat. Chronomancer is "tanky" only because of signet-distortion trait, if you are looking for tanky build you should look after scrapper

    You also have continuum split, echo of memory, blurred frenzy, invisibility, and blinks. It may not be able to face tank like a scrapper or warrior but they are still pretty good at mitigating damage. A well played chrono can be hard as hell to kill.

    What the point of having such chrono which is the only thing he can do is try to not die ?

    They can do decent enough damage. They also provide excellent utility and group support. The point I'm getting at is you don't have to heal if you don't take the damage in the first place.

    Yet, you have to present such build as I dont know any chrono build that can facetank as good and do damage in same time. Last time I dueled top10 mesmer friend with a warrior, I trashed his chrono bunker/power chrono/mirage power/mirage condi with 1 hand

    that is because warrior rampage is just overtuned. It has nothing to do with how weak mesmer heal is.
    Edit: And frankly, if mesmer heals were so good to the point where you got high heals with high damages, it would become unbalanced and OP as hell.

    Never used rampage in any of the duels. It was suddenly about "great facetanksmer chrono'
    Mesmer healing skill is high tier garbage.
    Healing skill doesnt do damage unless its revenant shiro heal. Which healing skill does damage aside this?
    Would like like to explain yourself ?

    Sorry for the confusion. I never wanted to say that mesmer heals were doing damages, I was only trying to say that good damages paired with high heals is unbalanced, especially when you get so many ways to mitigate/evade damages.

    Holosmith out-evading poor mesmers with ease, take adrenal implant which is pretty much taken by everyone, what this 6 seconds of quickness when you evade spam like you are daredevil and cooling forge to never be in danger for overheat ? 3 seconds block that can do 10k damage to you ? Invul? Their healing skill can be safely blasted to get 10-12k heals on 20s cd. Stealth on toolbelt for 6s.
    Have you ever seen holos or only mesmers?

    Yes we all know this. And obviously, the good solution here is not to powercreep mesmer to the level of holosmith but rather to tone down the high uptime on dodges and heal paired with good damages.

  • Zexanima.7851Zexanima.7851 Member ✭✭✭

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @flog.3485 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @flog.3485 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @LolLookAtMyAP.8394 said:
    Core mesmer is bad, Chronomancer can be extremely tanky and Mirage can be extremely evasive.

    A lot of other classes outevade mesmer without a sweat. Chronomancer is "tanky" only because of signet-distortion trait, if you are looking for tanky build you should look after scrapper

    You also have continuum split, echo of memory, blurred frenzy, invisibility, and blinks. It may not be able to face tank like a scrapper or warrior but they are still pretty good at mitigating damage. A well played chrono can be hard as hell to kill.

    What the point of having such chrono which is the only thing he can do is try to not die ?

    They can do decent enough damage. They also provide excellent utility and group support. The point I'm getting at is you don't have to heal if you don't take the damage in the first place.

    Yet, you have to present such build as I dont know any chrono build that can facetank as good and do damage in same time. Last time I dueled top10 mesmer friend with a warrior, I trashed his chrono bunker/power chrono/mirage power/mirage condi with 1 hand

    that is because warrior rampage is just overtuned. It has nothing to do with how weak mesmer heal is.
    Edit: And frankly, if mesmer heals were so good to the point where you got high heals with high damages, it would become unbalanced and OP as hell.

    Never used rampage in any of the duels. It was suddenly about "great facetanksmer chrono'
    Mesmer healing skill is high tier garbage.
    Healing skill doesnt do damage unless its revenant shiro heal. Which healing skill does damage aside this?
    Would like like to explain yourself ?

    Sorry for the confusion. I never wanted to say that mesmer heals were doing damages, I was only trying to say that good damages paired with high heals is unbalanced, especially when you get so many ways to mitigate/evade damages.

    Holosmith out-evading poor mesmers with ease, take adrenal implant which is pretty much taken by everyone, what this 6 seconds of quickness when you evade spam like you are daredevil and cooling forge to never be in danger for overheat ? 3 seconds block that can do 10k damage to you ? Invul? Their healing skill can be safely blasted to get 10-12k heals on 20s cd.

    Kite, wait for them to deactivate photon forge then pressure them. If you just jump a holosmith and role your face across the keyboard then yeah, they are going to blow you up. I'm really at a loss to see what the point you're trying to make is. I really just think this is a l2p issue.

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @LolLookAtMyAP.8394 said:
    Core mesmer is bad, Chronomancer can be extremely tanky and Mirage can be extremely evasive.

    A lot of other classes outevade mesmer without a sweat. Chronomancer is "tanky" only because of signet-distortion trait, if you are looking for tanky build you should look after scrapper

    You also have continuum split, echo of memory, blurred frenzy, invisibility, and blinks. It may not be able to face tank like a scrapper or warrior but they are still pretty good at mitigating damage. A well played chrono can be hard as hell to kill.

    What the point of having such chrono which is the only thing he can do is try to not die ?

    They can do decent enough damage. They also provide excellent utility and group support. The point I'm getting at is you don't have to heal if you don't take the damage in the first place.

    I would love to see that build. So far it has
    Great dps, personal and group utility, is tanky, and has good heals.
    If this build exist ( it doesn't)makes you wonder why people are complaining about holo and not mes right?

    Where did I say they can do all that in one build? That's the tools they have available to them and you have to build yourself for what you plan on doing. The OP was addressing core mesmer's lack of a good heal. It's good that mesmer doesn't have a strong heal since they already have so many tools to mitigate damage. Could you imagine the kind of monster mesmer would be if it had something like healing signet, consume conditions, or withdraw? I'm not saying mesmer is easy, I'm just saying you shouldn't be relying on your heal to keep you alive.

    No longer playing the game due to PvP being abandon.

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 21, 2019

    @Zexanima.7851 said:
    I'm just saying you shouldn't be relying on your heal to keep you alive

    What a pile of BS did I just read...?

    That's the tools they have available to them

    Classic argument "but but ... you have it ! Doesnt matter that you cant pack everything in one build, this will make my argument looks better!"

  • Zexanima.7851Zexanima.7851 Member ✭✭✭

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @flog.3485 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @flog.3485 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @LolLookAtMyAP.8394 said:
    Core mesmer is bad, Chronomancer can be extremely tanky and Mirage can be extremely evasive.

    A lot of other classes outevade mesmer without a sweat. Chronomancer is "tanky" only because of signet-distortion trait, if you are looking for tanky build you should look after scrapper

    You also have continuum split, echo of memory, blurred frenzy, invisibility, and blinks. It may not be able to face tank like a scrapper or warrior but they are still pretty good at mitigating damage. A well played chrono can be hard as hell to kill.

    What the point of having such chrono which is the only thing he can do is try to not die ?

    They can do decent enough damage. They also provide excellent utility and group support. The point I'm getting at is you don't have to heal if you don't take the damage in the first place.

    Yet, you have to present such build as I dont know any chrono build that can facetank as good and do damage in same time. Last time I dueled top10 mesmer friend with a warrior, I trashed his chrono bunker/power chrono/mirage power/mirage condi with 1 hand

    that is because warrior rampage is just overtuned. It has nothing to do with how weak mesmer heal is.
    Edit: And frankly, if mesmer heals were so good to the point where you got high heals with high damages, it would become unbalanced and OP as hell.

    Never used rampage in any of the duels. It was suddenly about "great facetanksmer chrono'
    Mesmer healing skill is high tier garbage.
    Healing skill doesnt do damage unless its revenant shiro heal. Which healing skill does damage aside this?
    Would like like to explain yourself ?

    Sorry for the confusion. I never wanted to say that mesmer heals were doing damages, I was only trying to say that good damages paired with high heals is unbalanced, especially when you get so many ways to mitigate/evade damages.

    Holosmith out-evading poor mesmers with ease, take adrenal implant which is pretty much taken by everyone, what this 6 seconds of quickness when you evade spam like you are daredevil and cooling forge to never be in danger for overheat ? 3 seconds block that can do 10k damage to you ? Invul? Their healing skill can be safely blasted to get 10-12k heals on 20s cd.

    Kite, wait for them to deactivate photon forge then pressure them. If you just jump a holosmith and role your face across the keyboard then yeah, they are going to blow you up. I'm really at a loss to see what the point you're trying to make is. I really just think this is a l2p issue.

    So I have to outplay them hard and they can jump on me, roll their face across the keyboard and win its fine.
    Why everyone didnt L2P and cry about cmirage all the time? Not just even mirage, mesmer in general. Scepter3 did 10k on demolisher amulet with 2.25 cast time, why didnt everyone just l2p ?
    In fact I listen that holosmith is overtuned and has too much of everything and best great healing skills , this has nothing to do with "l2p"

    What are you even going on about? I just came here to say that mesmer doesnt really need a stronger heal because they have plenty of damage mitigation and now you're whinging about holosmith. You do you though.

    No longer playing the game due to PvP being abandon.

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 21, 2019

    @flog.3485 said:
    Yes we all know this. And obviously, the good solution here is not to powercreep mesmer to the level of holosmith but rather to tone down the high uptime on dodges and heal paired with good damages.

    Apparently this special snowflake doesnt. What you talking about, really? After all nerf its hard to find any mesmer in ranked/ good AT team.
    I dont understand how this would suddenly "break" mesmer if they would have slightly better healing skill.
    Tbh thats pretty much kitten to see this community devolved to level "you dont need healing skill,just dodge".

  • Solori.6025Solori.6025 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 21, 2019

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @flog.3485 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @flog.3485 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @LolLookAtMyAP.8394 said:
    Core mesmer is bad, Chronomancer can be extremely tanky and Mirage can be extremely evasive.

    A lot of other classes outevade mesmer without a sweat. Chronomancer is "tanky" only because of signet-distortion trait, if you are looking for tanky build you should look after scrapper

    You also have continuum split, echo of memory, blurred frenzy, invisibility, and blinks. It may not be able to face tank like a scrapper or warrior but they are still pretty good at mitigating damage. A well played chrono can be hard as hell to kill.

    What the point of having such chrono which is the only thing he can do is try to not die ?

    They can do decent enough damage. They also provide excellent utility and group support. The point I'm getting at is you don't have to heal if you don't take the damage in the first place.

    Yet, you have to present such build as I dont know any chrono build that can facetank as good and do damage in same time. Last time I dueled top10 mesmer friend with a warrior, I trashed his chrono bunker/power chrono/mirage power/mirage condi with 1 hand

    that is because warrior rampage is just overtuned. It has nothing to do with how weak mesmer heal is.
    Edit: And frankly, if mesmer heals were so good to the point where you got high heals with high damages, it would become unbalanced and OP as hell.

    Never used rampage in any of the duels. It was suddenly about "great facetanksmer chrono'
    Mesmer healing skill is high tier garbage.
    Healing skill doesnt do damage unless its revenant shiro heal. Which healing skill does damage aside this?
    Would like like to explain yourself ?

    Sorry for the confusion. I never wanted to say that mesmer heals were doing damages, I was only trying to say that good damages paired with high heals is unbalanced, especially when you get so many ways to mitigate/evade damages.

    Holosmith out-evading poor mesmers with ease, take adrenal implant which is pretty much taken by everyone, what this 6 seconds of quickness when you evade spam like you are daredevil and cooling forge to never be in danger for overheat ? 3 seconds block that can do 10k damage to you ? Invul? Their healing skill can be safely blasted to get 10-12k heals on 20s cd.

    Kite, wait for them to deactivate photon forge then pressure them. If you just jump a holosmith and role your face across the keyboard then yeah, they are going to blow you up. I'm really at a loss to see what the point you're trying to make is. I really just think this is a l2p issue.

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @LolLookAtMyAP.8394 said:
    Core mesmer is bad, Chronomancer can be extremely tanky and Mirage can be extremely evasive.

    A lot of other classes outevade mesmer without a sweat. Chronomancer is "tanky" only because of signet-distortion trait, if you are looking for tanky build you should look after scrapper

    You also have continuum split, echo of memory, blurred frenzy, invisibility, and blinks. It may not be able to face tank like a scrapper or warrior but they are still pretty good at mitigating damage. A well played chrono can be hard as hell to kill.

    What the point of having such chrono which is the only thing he can do is try to not die ?

    They can do decent enough damage. They also provide excellent utility and group support. The point I'm getting at is you don't have to heal if you don't take the damage in the first place.

    I would love to see that build. So far it has
    Great dps, personal and group utility, is tanky, and has good heals.
    If this build exist ( it doesn't)makes you wonder why people are complaining about holo and not mes right?

    Where did I say they can do all that in one build? That's the tools they have available to them and you have to build yourself for what you plan on doing. The OP was addressing core mesmer's lack of a good heal. It's good that mesmer doesn't have a strong heal since they already have so many tools to mitigate damage. Could you imagine the kind of monster mesmer would be if it had something like healing signet, consume conditions, or withdraw? I'm not saying mesmer is easy, I'm just saying you shouldn't be relying on your heal to keep you alive.

    . . . . .
    So this was one of the poor constructed arguments a lot of people had to deal with like 5 months ago. With people listing tools and being like " here you go, you have everything you need" While not putting those tools together in a working build. Their was already an egotistic streamer that tried this, please learn from his mistakes. I could go on to list every tool out of the wiki every class has to make it seem like it works and is present in every working build 100% of the time. When reality is much much different.
    When you begin to list things a class can do, I and others expect you to have a build ( or something at least )that showcases exactly what you are claiming.

    They can do decent enough damage. They also provide excellent utility and group support. The point I'm getting at is you don't have to heal if you don't take the damage in the first place.

    You also have continuum split, echo of memory, blurred frenzy, invisibility,

    ^ show me a build that can do what you claim, that has what you listed.

    IF you can't provide evidence that can back up the claims you make then you are A) Lying about it OR B.) talking about something you have no clue about.

    It's like if I said Warriors have a bunker build - List a bunch of traits and utilities- Then claim they have all the tools to 1v5 and it's up to the warrior mains to figure it out.

    Telling a class to play like other classes is a non-argument and a little bit silly. "You should kite and not die" is literally what everyone has to do. That type of argument holds literally no ground when talking about a singular aspect of the class. In this case, the healing.
    ALSO funny you should mention mesmer being a monster. If the damage was anything close to monstrous you would know, because everyone on the forums would be up in arms about how monstrous it is. It already happened, it already got nerfed. So you are late with that claim. By a good 5+ months.

    Tingle my stingleberry

  • ButcherofMalakir.4067ButcherofMalakir.4067 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I will tell you about my heals as a chrono main. I use mostly signet of ether and i use it for damage. In openworld basicaly everything dies before it reaches me to my phantasms. If something reaches me i have many blocks and evades.

    Mesmer doesnt need healing. It would be much wiser to give better heals to ele for example.

    During trio raid encounter on last boss you can chain block/evade/distortion bedorethe boss dies to its burning. Where is the need for heals?

  • Ansau.7326Ansau.7326 Member ✭✭✭

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    I will tell you about my heals as a chrono main. I use mostly signet of ether and i use it for damage. In openworld basicaly everything dies before it reaches me to my phantasms. If something reaches me i have many blocks and evades.

    Mesmer doesnt need healing. It would be much wiser to give better heals to ele for example.

    During trio raid encounter on last boss you can chain block/evade/distortion bedorethe boss dies to its burning. Where is the need for heals?

    In PvP and WvW where you have brains fighting you instead of AI?

  • ButcherofMalakir.4067ButcherofMalakir.4067 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ansau.7326 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    I will tell you about my heals as a chrono main. I use mostly signet of ether and i use it for damage. In openworld basicaly everything dies before it reaches me to my phantasms. If something reaches me i have many blocks and evades.

    Mesmer doesnt need healing. It would be much wiser to give better heals to ele for example.

    During trio raid encounter on last boss you can chain block/evade/distortion bedorethe boss dies to its burning. Where is the need for heals?

    In PvP and WvW where you have brains fighting you instead of AI?

    In pvp/wvw almost noone would use another heal because soe provide burst. It doesnt matter if your target have brain or not. Blocks are not racist and work either way

  • Didn't ya know? Anet's favorite child isn't allowed to heal. We have evades for days remember? /s

    Seriously, it's no wonder I've never gotten the healing top stat and my percent of team healing is always low or lowest. Even when using Sage amulet for the +healing and Chaos traitline. Healing? What's that?

  • ReaverKane.7598ReaverKane.7598 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I haven't played mesmer in a while, but unless Arena NEt fundamentally changed the class in the last 6-8 months, which being Arena Net, they might, Minstrel's Chronomancer was pretty much built around being able to be used not only has a support tank but a off-healer as well...

  • Zexanima.7851Zexanima.7851 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 22, 2019

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @flog.3485 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @flog.3485 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @LolLookAtMyAP.8394 said:
    Core mesmer is bad, Chronomancer can be extremely tanky and Mirage can be extremely evasive.

    A lot of other classes outevade mesmer without a sweat. Chronomancer is "tanky" only because of signet-distortion trait, if you are looking for tanky build you should look after scrapper

    You also have continuum split, echo of memory, blurred frenzy, invisibility, and blinks. It may not be able to face tank like a scrapper or warrior but they are still pretty good at mitigating damage. A well played chrono can be hard as hell to kill.

    What the point of having such chrono which is the only thing he can do is try to not die ?

    They can do decent enough damage. They also provide excellent utility and group support. The point I'm getting at is you don't have to heal if you don't take the damage in the first place.

    Yet, you have to present such build as I dont know any chrono build that can facetank as good and do damage in same time. Last time I dueled top10 mesmer friend with a warrior, I trashed his chrono bunker/power chrono/mirage power/mirage condi with 1 hand

    that is because warrior rampage is just overtuned. It has nothing to do with how weak mesmer heal is.
    Edit: And frankly, if mesmer heals were so good to the point where you got high heals with high damages, it would become unbalanced and OP as hell.

    Never used rampage in any of the duels. It was suddenly about "great facetanksmer chrono'
    Mesmer healing skill is high tier garbage.
    Healing skill doesnt do damage unless its revenant shiro heal. Which healing skill does damage aside this?
    Would like like to explain yourself ?

    Sorry for the confusion. I never wanted to say that mesmer heals were doing damages, I was only trying to say that good damages paired with high heals is unbalanced, especially when you get so many ways to mitigate/evade damages.

    Holosmith out-evading poor mesmers with ease, take adrenal implant which is pretty much taken by everyone, what this 6 seconds of quickness when you evade spam like you are daredevil and cooling forge to never be in danger for overheat ? 3 seconds block that can do 10k damage to you ? Invul? Their healing skill can be safely blasted to get 10-12k heals on 20s cd.

    Kite, wait for them to deactivate photon forge then pressure them. If you just jump a holosmith and role your face across the keyboard then yeah, they are going to blow you up. I'm really at a loss to see what the point you're trying to make is. I really just think this is a l2p issue.

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @LolLookAtMyAP.8394 said:
    Core mesmer is bad, Chronomancer can be extremely tanky and Mirage can be extremely evasive.

    A lot of other classes outevade mesmer without a sweat. Chronomancer is "tanky" only because of signet-distortion trait, if you are looking for tanky build you should look after scrapper

    You also have continuum split, echo of memory, blurred frenzy, invisibility, and blinks. It may not be able to face tank like a scrapper or warrior but they are still pretty good at mitigating damage. A well played chrono can be hard as hell to kill.

    What the point of having such chrono which is the only thing he can do is try to not die ?

    They can do decent enough damage. They also provide excellent utility and group support. The point I'm getting at is you don't have to heal if you don't take the damage in the first place.

    I would love to see that build. So far it has
    Great dps, personal and group utility, is tanky, and has good heals.
    If this build exist ( it doesn't)makes you wonder why people are complaining about holo and not mes right?

    Where did I say they can do all that in one build? That's the tools they have available to them and you have to build yourself for what you plan on doing. The OP was addressing core mesmer's lack of a good heal. It's good that mesmer doesn't have a strong heal since they already have so many tools to mitigate damage. Could you imagine the kind of monster mesmer would be if it had something like healing signet, consume conditions, or withdraw? I'm not saying mesmer is easy, I'm just saying you shouldn't be relying on your heal to keep you alive.

    . . . . .
    So this was one of the poor constructed arguments a lot of people had to deal with like 5 months ago. With people listing tools and being like " here you go, you have everything you need" While not putting those tools together in a working build. Their was already an egotistic streamer that tried this, please learn from his mistakes. I could go on to list every tool out of the wiki every class has to make it seem like it works and is present in every working build 100% of the time. When reality is much much different.
    When you begin to list things a class can do, I and others expect you to have a build ( or something at least )that showcases exactly what you are claiming.

    They can do decent enough damage. They also provide excellent utility and group support. The point I'm getting at is you don't have to heal if you don't take the damage in the first place.

    You also have continuum split, echo of memory, blurred frenzy, invisibility,

    ^ show me a build that can do what you claim, that has what you listed.

    IF you can't provide evidence that can back up the claims you make then you are A) Lying about it OR B.) talking about something you have no clue about.

    It's like if I said Warriors have a bunker build - List a bunch of traits and utilities- Then claim they have all the tools to 1v5 and it's up to the warrior mains to figure it out.

    Telling a class to play like other classes is a non-argument and a little bit silly. "You should kite and not die" is literally what everyone has to do. That type of argument holds literally no ground when talking about a singular aspect of the class. In this case, the healing.
    ALSO funny you should mention mesmer being a monster. If the damage was anything close to monstrous you would know, because everyone on the forums would be up in arms about how monstrous it is. It already happened, it already got nerfed. So you are late with that claim. By a good 5+ months.

    Okie dokie, here we go

    Build

    Damage
    Interrupting your opponent is key, you specifically want to go for their heal skill if you can. Why is this so important? Interrupting your opponent will:

    1. Proc Power Block which will increase the cool down of an opponents skill. To get the most out of this you need to have a lot of game knowledge. You need to be able to identify the build your opponent is running, the skills that are key for them to land for that build and the animations of that skill. If you don't know that, just try to interrupt their heal or burst.
    2. Between Illusion of Vulnerability and Dazzling you will get an instant stack of 8 vulnerability on your opponent. With the trait Fragility This gives you an extra 12% damage against them so put that to use ASAP before it's cleansed.
    3. Chaotic Interruption. Gives you might and a boon and them some condi. Not huge but just applies more pressure on your interrupts.

    One example of opening combo you could do would look something like this. You would want to pull it off as fast as possible, it shouldn't take you much longer than 1 second after you break stealth.

    1. Mass Invisibility. Super speed to close the gap and catch your opponent off guard.
    2. Phantasmal Mage. For the interrupts. Try to avoid landing the damage on this, you just want to summon the phantasm, not break stealth.
    3. Weapon Swap
    4. Phantasmal Berserker.
    5. Mirror Blade
    6. Power Spike. More vulnerability.
    7. Diversion. Your opponent might be registering your attack at this point and trying to respond. Interrupt them. Also strips boons
    8. Mind Wrack. Big damage, more boons strip
    9. Cry of Frustration If they are not dead by this point for a little extra damage. The confusion will hinder them trying to use skills to recover from you attack.

    Sustain

    There is lots of sustain in this build. Most of your sustain will come from damage avoidance. Here is a break down.

    • Blurred Frenzy. This is on an 8 second cool down. That's an evade every 8 seconds. Every time you swap to sword this will be up. It's very strong if you use it right. It avoid warrior burst attack, thief steal, or revenant chaotic release. It also provides a fair amount of damage for counter pressure. This is best used when an opponent is about to engage melee range burst or try an CC you. You can avoid a lot of damage with this.
    • The Prestige. Invisibility. I shouldn't have to tell you how strong this is. Also removes a condition and blinds the enemy. Over all a solid defensive skill.
    • Blink. This is an a fairly short 24 second cool down. It provides you with a stun break and a way to escape. Do not use it to engage unless you are 10000% sure you don't need it. It's a super strong defensive skill with the potential to deny your opponent all damage. This is best used as a last defensive option because if you use it early in the fight chances are your opponent will still have a gap closer off cool down.
    • Mirror. Super speed, healing, projectile reflection. Do not use this in melee range. It has a long cast time. Make sure you are well out of range, LoS, or invisible before you try to pop it. This really goes for any long cast healing skill on any profession.
    • Mass Invisibility. You shouldn't try to pop this when under pressure. This is good for helping you get some cool downs back. If you've burned a lot of your cool downs, LoS then Mass Invisibility and kite. This should buy you close to enough time to setup another burst.
    • Illusionary Wave. This can be used to interrupt an opponents burst or put some distance between you and them. Pretty straight forward.
    • Distortion. Your "oh kitten" panic button. Damage and condition immunity.
    • Desperate Decoy. If you're caught off guard or miss avoiding a burst. This will save you from at least one mistake per fight giving you a little bit of a buffer for error. It will not save you from channeled attacks like rapid fire so don't depend on it for that.
    • Auspicious Anguish. More distortion and defensive boons, enough said.
    • Metaphysical Rejuvenation and Illusionary Membrane will add a tiny bit of passive sustain. Nothing to depend on but isn't bad to have.
    • Superspeed, there are 3 sources of it in this build on defensive type skills. Use it to create distance and kite and LoS. If they cant catch you they cant do damage.
    • #justdodge Seriously though, don't waste your dodges pointlessly. This has to be like 80% of the reason I see people die. I cant tell you how many times I'll just walk towards a player spamming 1 and watch them blow both their dodges for no reason at all. You have decent vigor up time and sigil of energy on sword/torch so you should have plenty of dodges.
    • Sigil of Cleansing is really your only dependable condi cleanse in this build, unfortunately.
    • Use your clones! You can use them to intercept attacks or confuse your opponent. Lots of people (not everyone) still fall prey to wasting big skills on a clone.

    Utility

    There is a lot to cover here and I'm not going to be covering skills I already covered in the damage and sustain sections unless I think they have special relevance to utility as well. I'll first go over the utility in the build and then options for what to fill your 3rd utility slot with (I intentionally left this empty).

    • Sword 1 provides you with vulnerability and boons strip. In all honesty though you shouldn't be using this much. The most common case might be to cleave downs when you don't want to waste cool downs.
    • Illusionary Leap. This provides you with a gap closer, immobilize, and clone production on a 9 1/2 second cool down. Can be used to setup small burst or escape by targeting NPCs.
    • Blink. You can kite with this, you can engage with this, you can break stuns with it. Smart use of blink can turn a fight.
    • F1-4. I wont cover then individually again but they provide you with damage, stun, and an evade. If used at the right time they can also turn a fight.

    What should you choose in the last slot? Well, this is your true "utility" slot that you need to swap depending on the fight. When you're just traveling I would keep something defensive if place just incase you get jumped but if you have time before the fight you should swap this depending on who your opponent is.

    Defensive options:

    • Arcane Thievery. Superspeed, quickness, boonstrip, condi cleanse. You might pick this up if you are determined to fight a condi build. It wont carry you but can save you in a pinch.
    • Portal. Great for kiting melee professions like warrior.
    • Feedback If you're anticipating a lot of ranged pressure.
    • Null_Field This is kind of offensive/defensive. A combination of well of corruption and well of power without the damage. Good for zoning in team fights.
    • Decoy. Solid defense, I would run this while out of combat just incase I get caught off guard.
    • Mantra of Concentration. I would run this against warriors specifically but you'll benefit against any high CC profession.
    • Signet of Midnight. Stun break, stealth, and blind. It's a second "oh kitten" button more or less.
    • Signet of Illusions. Can be used to recharge Distortion in a pinch. The extra clones will help to make sure your shatters are capped.

    ...there are more here but I think you get the point. This is already a long post.

    Damage options if you're feeling brave:

    • Mantra of Distraction The extra daze and vulnerability is nice. Can be used both defensively and offensively
    • Mimic Another of the defensive/offensive options. You can use it with blink to disengage completely or swap your damage utility and do crazy stuff.

    You can also swap weapons depending on what you need. Most notably I would swap torch for focus in team fights so for the pulls and projectile hate.

    Do's and Dont's

    Do
    ... kite. You have good mobility and stealth in this build, use it. Kiting is the best form of damage mitigation.
    ... practice your burst. It's not the easiest burst in the game but it'll get the job done if you practice it.
    ... learn about other profession and the map. This profession and build rely heavily on game knowledge.

    Do Not
    ... stand in stupid. Kiting, dodging, and using LoS are the best forms of damage mitigation. This is not profession specific but the lack of use of these will make any profession seem weak.
    ... fight condi builds. You can but you're at a disadvantage. Every build for ever profession has their disadvantages, condi is this one's. Necro will specifically ruin your day if they keep hitting you with corrupts.
    ... fight if you have Detected!. You rely on stealth a fair bit and you will be kitten if you can't use it.
    ... fight a spellbreaker if you can help it. You can beat them if you're really good or they are really bad but odds are not in your favor.

    EDIT:
    Example video
    This is not me and they are not running the build I gave to my knowledge. I'm not saying they are the best or are fighting the best. I just post this video to show it's possible to run core mesmer successfully.

    No longer playing the game due to PvP being abandon.

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Not going to wvw since memeclaw (and completely dont care about wvw, balance there is split for many classes) but claim this core mesmer build is a chrono with:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:
    They can do decent enough damage. They also provide excellent utility and group support.
    @Zexanima.7851 said:
    You also have continuum split, echo of memory, blurred frenzy, invisibility, and blinks. It may not be able to face tank like a scrapper or warrior but they are still pretty good at mitigating damage. A well played chrono can be hard as hell to kill.

    Then trying to sell core meme build as outstandingly OP build...
    Outside just telling exact what mesmer skill has ... he suggest to rely on people stupidity and basically hope you are fighting infinitely worse people, great job.

    Use your clones! You can use them to intercept attacks or confuse your opponent. Lots of people (not everyone) still fall prey to wasting big skills on a clone.

  • Zexanima.7851Zexanima.7851 Member ✭✭✭

    @praqtos.9035 said:
    Not going to wvw since memeclaw (and completely dont care about wvw, balance there is split for many classes) but claim this core mesmer build is a chrono with:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:
    They can do decent enough damage. They also provide excellent utility and group support.
    @Zexanima.7851 said:
    You also have continuum split, echo of memory, blurred frenzy, invisibility, and blinks. It may not be able to face tank like a scrapper or warrior but they are still pretty good at mitigating damage. A well played chrono can be hard as hell to kill.

    Then trying to sell core meme build as outstandingly OP build...

    I'm not trying to sell anything as OP, don't try to put words in my mouth. Chrono and Mirage are both stronger than core though. If it can be done on core it can be done on those two as well. "Meme build" is just a salty way of saying strong build. It's far from a one trick pony if that's what you're suggesting.

    Outside just telling exact what mesmer skill has ... he suggest to rely on people stupidity and basically hope you are fighting infinitely worse people, great job.

    What, now you want me to provide a commentary and break down video or something? I have a feeling you just want to be right and don't really care about discussing the topic at hand.

    Use your clones! You can use them to intercept attacks or confuse your opponent. Lots of people (not everyone) still fall prey to wasting big skills on a clone.

    I like how you just exclude the numerous paragraphs of information I provided and just laser focused on this one sentence like it was the whole post. Taking advantage of your opponents stupidity is a valid and useful strategy.

    No longer playing the game due to PvP being abandon.

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 22, 2019

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:
    Not going to wvw since memeclaw (and completely dont care about wvw, balance there is split for many classes) but claim this core mesmer build is a chrono with:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:
    They can do decent enough damage. They also provide excellent utility and group support.
    @Zexanima.7851 said:
    You also have continuum split, echo of memory, blurred frenzy, invisibility, and blinks. It may not be able to face tank like a scrapper or warrior but they are still pretty good at mitigating damage. A well played chrono can be hard as hell to kill.

    Then trying to sell core meme build as outstandingly OP build...

    I'm not trying to sell anything as OP, don't try to put words in my mouth. Chrono and Mirage are both stronger than core though. If it can be done on core it can be done on those two as well. "Meme build" is just a salty way of saying strong build. It's far from a one trick pony if that's what you're suggesting.

    Its soooooo strong that still not on metabattle even. Except for attempts to burst from stealth this build cant do anything. What a strong build with high utility and support :joy:
    Thats you who should have presented a build that have everything you mention, not me.

    Outside just telling exact what mesmer skill has ... he suggest to rely on people stupidity and basically hope you are fighting infinitely worse people, great job.

    What, now you want me to provide a commentary and break down video or something? I have a feeling you just want to be right and don't really care about discussing the topic at hand.

    So to "prove" your build is really strong as you claim is enough list every single skill and a trait and add some description on it ?
    If its really that strong, why its not a thing in ranked, why its not a thing in AT's ?

    Use your clones! You can use them to intercept attacks or confuse your opponent. Lots of people (not everyone) still fall prey to wasting big skills on a clone.

    I like how you just exclude the numerous paragraphs of information I provided and just laser focused on this one sentence like it was the whole post. Taking advantage of your opponents stupidity is a valid and useful strategy.

    So, this build supposed to work only on these who cant find the real one aka not experienced players ?
    A better player would beat a worse player, even if a better player would have worse build ! You are really surprised me...

  • Zexanima.7851Zexanima.7851 Member ✭✭✭

    I pretty sure you're just trolling at this point but whatever, I have time.

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:
    Not going to wvw since memeclaw (and completely dont care about wvw, balance there is split for many classes) but claim this core mesmer build is a chrono with:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:
    They can do decent enough damage. They also provide excellent utility and group support.
    @Zexanima.7851 said:
    You also have continuum split, echo of memory, blurred frenzy, invisibility, and blinks. It may not be able to face tank like a scrapper or warrior but they are still pretty good at mitigating damage. A well played chrono can be hard as hell to kill.

    Then trying to sell core meme build as outstandingly OP build...

    I'm not trying to sell anything as OP, don't try to put words in my mouth. Chrono and Mirage are both stronger than core though. If it can be done on core it can be done on those two as well. "Meme build" is just a salty way of saying strong build. It's far from a one trick pony if that's what you're suggesting.

    Its soooooo strong that still not on metabattle even. Except for attempts to burst from stealth this build cant do anything. What a strong build with high utility and support :joy:

    Outside just telling exact what mesmer skill has ... he suggest to rely on people stupidity and basically hope you are fighting infinitely worse people, great job.

    What, now you want me to provide a commentary and break down video or something? I have a feeling you just want to be right and don't really care about discussing the topic at hand.

    So to "prove" your build is really strong as you claim is enough list every single skill and a trait and add some description on it ?
    If its really that strong, why its not a thing in ranked, why its not a thing in AT's ?

    You asked for a build and I gave a build AND how to use it. It's not in ranked or AT's because it's not meta. Just because it's not meta doesn't mean it's bad or that it can't be played effectively.

    Use your clones! You can use them to intercept attacks or confuse your opponent. Lots of people (not everyone) still fall prey to wasting big skills on a clone.

    I like how you just exclude the numerous paragraphs of information I provided and just laser focused on this one sentence like it was the whole post. Taking advantage of your opponents stupidity is a valid and useful strategy.

    So, this build supposed to work only on these who cant find the real one aka not experienced players ?

    I never said that, you just making things up at this point.

    A better player would beat a worse player, even if a better player would have worse build ! You are really surprised me...

    I've provided a plethora of information and examples for my argument. All you've done so far is stawman, provide ad hominems and false dilemmas.

    No longer playing the game due to PvP being abandon.

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @LolLookAtMyAP.8394 said:
    Core mesmer is bad, Chronomancer can be extremely tanky and Mirage can be extremely evasive.

    A lot of other classes outevade mesmer without a sweat. Chronomancer is "tanky" only because of signet-distortion trait, if you are looking for tanky build you should look after scrapper

    You also have continuum split, echo of memory, blurred frenzy, invisibility, and blinks. It may not be able to face tank like a scrapper or warrior but they are still pretty good at mitigating damage. A well played chrono can be hard as hell to kill.

    What the point of having such chrono which is the only thing he can do is try to not die ?

    I ask the same thing about scrapper. :tongue:

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @LolLookAtMyAP.8394 said:
    Core mesmer is bad, Chronomancer can be extremely tanky and Mirage can be extremely evasive.

    A lot of other classes outevade mesmer without a sweat. Chronomancer is "tanky" only because of signet-distortion trait, if you are looking for tanky build you should look after scrapper

    You also have continuum split, echo of memory, blurred frenzy, invisibility, and blinks. It may not be able to face tank like a scrapper or warrior but they are still pretty good at mitigating damage. A well played chrono can be hard as hell to kill.

    What the point of having such chrono which is the only thing he can do is try to not die ?

    I ask the same thing about scrapper. :tongue:

    At least he doesnt lose the point as soon he try to use his heal/utility :D

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 22, 2019

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @LolLookAtMyAP.8394 said:
    Core mesmer is bad, Chronomancer can be extremely tanky and Mirage can be extremely evasive.

    A lot of other classes outevade mesmer without a sweat. Chronomancer is "tanky" only because of signet-distortion trait, if you are looking for tanky build you should look after scrapper

    You also have continuum split, echo of memory, blurred frenzy, invisibility, and blinks. It may not be able to face tank like a scrapper or warrior but they are still pretty good at mitigating damage. A well played chrono can be hard as hell to kill.

    What the point of having such chrono which is the only thing he can do is try to not die ?

    I ask the same thing about scrapper. :tongue:

    At least he doesnt lose the point as soon he try to use his heal/utility :D

    True, but it's so booooooooring to play, and just as boring to fight against

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 22, 2019

    @Zexanima.7851 said:
    I pretty sure you're just trolling at this point but whatever, I have time.

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:
    Not going to wvw since memeclaw (and completely dont care about wvw, balance there is split for many classes) but claim this core mesmer build is a chrono with:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:
    They can do decent enough damage. They also provide excellent utility and group support.
    @Zexanima.7851 said:
    You also have continuum split, echo of memory, blurred frenzy, invisibility, and blinks. It may not be able to face tank like a scrapper or warrior but they are still pretty good at mitigating damage. A well played chrono can be hard as hell to kill.

    Then trying to sell core meme build as outstandingly OP build...

    I'm not trying to sell anything as OP, don't try to put words in my mouth. Chrono and Mirage are both stronger than core though. If it can be done on core it can be done on those two as well. "Meme build" is just a salty way of saying strong build. It's far from a one trick pony if that's what you're suggesting.

    Its soooooo strong that still not on metabattle even. Except for attempts to burst from stealth this build cant do anything. What a strong build with high utility and support :joy:

    Outside just telling exact what mesmer skill has ... he suggest to rely on people stupidity and basically hope you are fighting infinitely worse people, great job.

    What, now you want me to provide a commentary and break down video or something? I have a feeling you just want to be right and don't really care about discussing the topic at hand.

    So to "prove" your build is really strong as you claim is enough list every single skill and a trait and add some description on it ?
    If its really that strong, why its not a thing in ranked, why its not a thing in AT's ?

    You asked for a build and I gave a build AND how to use it. It's not in ranked or AT's because it's not meta. Just because it's not meta doesn't mean it's bad or that it can't be played effectively.

    You just making things up at this point. Reapers and other non-meta builds are being played in ranked even within 1500-1800. Even sic em ranger that people claim to be "meme" build was played in finals and won yesterday at prime time, not some morning when everyone are sleeping.

    Use your clones! You can use them to intercept attacks or confuse your opponent. Lots of people (not everyone) still fall prey to wasting big skills on a clone.

    I like how you just exclude the numerous paragraphs of information I provided and just laser focused on this one sentence like it was the whole post. Taking advantage of your opponents stupidity is a valid and useful strategy.

    So, this build supposed to work only on these who cant find the real one aka not experienced players ?

    I never said that, you just making things up at this point.

    If they willing to blow "big skills" at clones they are clearly bad/unexperienced which is obvious?

    A better player would beat a worse player, even if a better player would have worse build ! You are really surprised me...

    I've provided a plethora of information and examples for my argument. All you've done so far is stawman, provide ad hominems and false dilemmas.

    I can just list ever skill and give a short info about it and claim the build is good, not meta but still good.

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 22, 2019

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @LolLookAtMyAP.8394 said:
    Core mesmer is bad, Chronomancer can be extremely tanky and Mirage can be extremely evasive.

    A lot of other classes outevade mesmer without a sweat. Chronomancer is "tanky" only because of signet-distortion trait, if you are looking for tanky build you should look after scrapper

    You also have continuum split, echo of memory, blurred frenzy, invisibility, and blinks. It may not be able to face tank like a scrapper or warrior but they are still pretty good at mitigating damage. A well played chrono can be hard as hell to kill.

    What the point of having such chrono which is the only thing he can do is try to not die ?

    I ask the same thing about scrapper. :tongue:

    At least he doesnt lose the point as soon he try to use his heal/utility :D

    True, but it's so booooooooring to play, and just as boring to fight against

    Sadly, you are 100% right here. Its too boring to play and too annoying to fight against. Just like scrappers tbh...

  • Zexanima.7851Zexanima.7851 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 22, 2019

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:
    I pretty sure you're just trolling at this point but whatever, I have time.

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:
    Not going to wvw since memeclaw (and completely dont care about wvw, balance there is split for many classes) but claim this core mesmer build is a chrono with:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:
    They can do decent enough damage. They also provide excellent utility and group support.
    @Zexanima.7851 said:
    You also have continuum split, echo of memory, blurred frenzy, invisibility, and blinks. It may not be able to face tank like a scrapper or warrior but they are still pretty good at mitigating damage. A well played chrono can be hard as hell to kill.

    Then trying to sell core meme build as outstandingly OP build...

    I'm not trying to sell anything as OP, don't try to put words in my mouth. Chrono and Mirage are both stronger than core though. If it can be done on core it can be done on those two as well. "Meme build" is just a salty way of saying strong build. It's far from a one trick pony if that's what you're suggesting.

    Its soooooo strong that still not on metabattle even. Except for attempts to burst from stealth this build cant do anything. What a strong build with high utility and support :joy:

    Outside just telling exact what mesmer skill has ... he suggest to rely on people stupidity and basically hope you are fighting infinitely worse people, great job.

    What, now you want me to provide a commentary and break down video or something? I have a feeling you just want to be right and don't really care about discussing the topic at hand.

    So to "prove" your build is really strong as you claim is enough list every single skill and a trait and add some description on it ?
    If its really that strong, why its not a thing in ranked, why its not a thing in AT's ?

    You asked for a build and I gave a build AND how to use it. It's not in ranked or AT's because it's not meta. Just because it's not meta doesn't mean it's bad or that it can't be played effectively.

    You just making things up at this point. Reapers and other non-meta builds are being played in ranked even within 1500-1800.

    You're not even making sense...

    Use your clones! You can use them to intercept attacks or confuse your opponent. Lots of people (not everyone) still fall prey to wasting big skills on a clone.

    I like how you just exclude the numerous paragraphs of information I provided and just laser focused on this one sentence like it was the whole post. Taking advantage of your opponents stupidity is a valid and useful strategy.

    So, this build supposed to work only on these who cant find the real one aka not experienced players ?

    I never said that, you just making things up at this point.

    If they willing to blow "big skills" at clones they are clearly bad/unexperienced which is obvious?

    Okay, I'll conceed that one point for the sake of getting you unglued from it. What about the rest of the information I provided AND (big 'and' here you keep ignoring, don't miss reading this part) how to use it.

    A better player would beat a worse player, even if a better player would have worse build ! You are really surprised me...

    I've provided a plethora of information and examples for my argument. All you've done so far is stawman, provide ad hominems and false dilemmas.

    I can just list ever skill and give a short info about it and claim the build is good, not meta but still good.

    I would like to point out you're also taking my post in context of sPvP when I'm very clearly talking about WvW.

    No longer playing the game due to PvP being abandon.

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 22, 2019

    @Zexanima.7851 said:
    I would like to point out you're also taking my post in context of sPvP when I'm very clearly talking about WvW.

    I'm playing PvP and not WvW for a reason. Quality of players there ...ehem... isnt the best, me and my friend killed 8 people at once and it wasnt even funny. Thats why you can see a lot of youtubers stamp lots of these videos.
    I have seen enough of speedhackers to never bother with this game mode.

    What about the rest of the information I provided AND (big and here you keep ignoring, don't miss reading this part) how to use it.

    I know every mesmer skill and from your listing of mesmer skills I was reading, I can tell you GS5 is biggest joke of a skill relative to its cd,damage,effect in entire guild wars,that occupy 5th weapon skill. Sw3 is unreliable, love to bug aka dont teleport and clone is oneshottable with one auto attack.
    Still cant find "how to use it" written by you ,except for 1 example of burst, giving away your intention to burst by casting torch5, oh about torch5 ,this phantasm is another joke that experienced player knows, its stretching his hands so long so you can walk behind it as many times as you want before its finally hits you. Not sure if you knew about it.
    And what interested me the most is build against equally good opponents and its viability for the the game (not running around in stealth for 10+ minutes trying to finally land perfect burst after ~10 times it didnt work, DE will do this in 1 hit), build you present... its might be good for certain 1x1's and if people actually not willing to kite or use surrounding to their advantage(or just simply cant), many classes would straight delete you for your any mistake or these who have reveal, like engi has 2 from utility skill,sic em, tether,DH.
    I mean... I could add to description of this skills but for who? Mesmer mains for sure know it without my help. Okay some, here we go:
    A lot of utilities I wouldnt recommend to use with it, mantra of distraction is a must if you trait for CI, mantra of distraction is a must when you trait for new CS.
    Desperate decoy hurt more than help, experienced mesmers prefer to avoid it. self interrupting your abilities, may be you dont know... PF for the damage.
    Mainhand sword is pretty much worthless, why would you take a sword trait if it doesnt do anything? Its bonus is locked behind 10 melee hits. Even f2 blind is a better choice, literally terrible, but still better than nothing which sword trait offer.
    DE is ...what for in this build ? I dont know... I would rather take more damage since obviously I will try to interrupt-boopshit immobilized enemy...
    Blurred frenzy is bad... sure with might vulns its start to do the damage,but 8 hits into retal is really really hurt, especially when there is more targets than 1.

  • Solori.6025Solori.6025 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @flog.3485 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @flog.3485 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @LolLookAtMyAP.8394 said:
    Core mesmer is bad, Chronomancer can be extremely tanky and Mirage can be extremely evasive.

    A lot of other classes outevade mesmer without a sweat. Chronomancer is "tanky" only because of signet-distortion trait, if you are looking for tanky build you should look after scrapper

    You also have continuum split, echo of memory, blurred frenzy, invisibility, and blinks. It may not be able to face tank like a scrapper or warrior but they are still pretty good at mitigating damage. A well played chrono can be hard as hell to kill.

    What the point of having such chrono which is the only thing he can do is try to not die ?

    They can do decent enough damage. They also provide excellent utility and group support. The point I'm getting at is you don't have to heal if you don't take the damage in the first place.

    Yet, you have to present such build as I dont know any chrono build that can facetank as good and do damage in same time. Last time I dueled top10 mesmer friend with a warrior, I trashed his chrono bunker/power chrono/mirage power/mirage condi with 1 hand

    that is because warrior rampage is just overtuned. It has nothing to do with how weak mesmer heal is.
    Edit: And frankly, if mesmer heals were so good to the point where you got high heals with high damages, it would become unbalanced and OP as hell.

    Never used rampage in any of the duels. It was suddenly about "great facetanksmer chrono'
    Mesmer healing skill is high tier garbage.
    Healing skill doesnt do damage unless its revenant shiro heal. Which healing skill does damage aside this?
    Would like like to explain yourself ?

    Sorry for the confusion. I never wanted to say that mesmer heals were doing damages, I was only trying to say that good damages paired with high heals is unbalanced, especially when you get so many ways to mitigate/evade damages.

    Holosmith out-evading poor mesmers with ease, take adrenal implant which is pretty much taken by everyone, what this 6 seconds of quickness when you evade spam like you are daredevil and cooling forge to never be in danger for overheat ? 3 seconds block that can do 10k damage to you ? Invul? Their healing skill can be safely blasted to get 10-12k heals on 20s cd.

    Kite, wait for them to deactivate photon forge then pressure them. If you just jump a holosmith and role your face across the keyboard then yeah, they are going to blow you up. I'm really at a loss to see what the point you're trying to make is. I really just think this is a l2p issue.

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @LolLookAtMyAP.8394 said:
    Core mesmer is bad, Chronomancer can be extremely tanky and Mirage can be extremely evasive.

    A lot of other classes outevade mesmer without a sweat. Chronomancer is "tanky" only because of signet-distortion trait, if you are looking for tanky build you should look after scrapper

    You also have continuum split, echo of memory, blurred frenzy, invisibility, and blinks. It may not be able to face tank like a scrapper or warrior but they are still pretty good at mitigating damage. A well played chrono can be hard as hell to kill.

    What the point of having such chrono which is the only thing he can do is try to not die ?

    They can do decent enough damage. They also provide excellent utility and group support. The point I'm getting at is you don't have to heal if you don't take the damage in the first place.

    I would love to see that build. So far it has
    Great dps, personal and group utility, is tanky, and has good heals.
    If this build exist ( it doesn't)makes you wonder why people are complaining about holo and not mes right?

    Where did I say they can do all that in one build? That's the tools they have available to them and you have to build yourself for what you plan on doing. The OP was addressing core mesmer's lack of a good heal. It's good that mesmer doesn't have a strong heal since they already have so many tools to mitigate damage. Could you imagine the kind of monster mesmer would be if it had something like healing signet, consume conditions, or withdraw? I'm not saying mesmer is easy, I'm just saying you shouldn't be relying on your heal to keep you alive.

    . . . . .
    So this was one of the poor constructed arguments a lot of people had to deal with like 5 months ago. With people listing tools and being like " here you go, you have everything you need" While not putting those tools together in a working build. Their was already an egotistic streamer that tried this, please learn from his mistakes. I could go on to list every tool out of the wiki every class has to make it seem like it works and is present in every working build 100% of the time. When reality is much much different.
    When you begin to list things a class can do, I and others expect you to have a build ( or something at least )that showcases exactly what you are claiming.

    They can do decent enough damage. They also provide excellent utility and group support. The point I'm getting at is you don't have to heal if you don't take the damage in the first place.

    You also have continuum split, echo of memory, blurred frenzy, invisibility,

    ^ show me a build that can do what you claim, that has what you listed.

    IF you can't provide evidence that can back up the claims you make then you are A) Lying about it OR B.) talking about something you have no clue about.

    It's like if I said Warriors have a bunker build - List a bunch of traits and utilities- Then claim they have all the tools to 1v5 and it's up to the warrior mains to figure it out.

    Telling a class to play like other classes is a non-argument and a little bit silly. "You should kite and not die" is literally what everyone has to do. That type of argument holds literally no ground when talking about a singular aspect of the class. In this case, the healing.
    ALSO funny you should mention mesmer being a monster. If the damage was anything close to monstrous you would know, because everyone on the forums would be up in arms about how monstrous it is. It already happened, it already got nerfed. So you are late with that claim. By a good 5+ months.

    Okie dokie, here we go

    Build

    Damage
    Interrupting your opponent is key, you specifically want to go for their heal skill if you can. Why is this so important? Interrupting your opponent will:

    1. Proc Power Block which will increase the cool down of an opponents skill. To get the most out of this you need to have a lot of game knowledge. You need to be able to identify the build your opponent is running, the skills that are key for them to land for that build and the animations of that skill. If you don't know that, just try to interrupt their heal or burst.
    2. Between Illusion of Vulnerability and Dazzling you will get an instant stack of 8 vulnerability on your opponent. With the trait Fragility This gives you an extra 12% damage against them so put that to use ASAP before it's cleansed.
    3. Chaotic Interruption. Gives you might and a boon and them some condi. Not huge but just applies more pressure on your interrupts.

    Oh goodie. I had a feeling you would try and link a build similair to this, though a lot of your trait choices are ....questionable.....
    Starting with this.
    To take advantage of powerblock and chaotic interruption you need to be running mantra of distraction. So this build has no condi clear with that combination of traits.
    You can run mimic, but this build loses trait synergy and damage.
    For the sake of completion and trait choices though, distraction is your final utility slot. That makes more sense.

    One example of opening combo you could do would look something like this. You would want to pull it off as fast as possible, it shouldn't take you much longer than 1 second after you break stealth.

    1. Mass Invisibility. Super speed to close the gap and catch your opponent off guard.
    2. Phantasmal Mage. For the interrupts. Try to avoid landing the damage on this, you just want to summon the phantasm, not break stealth.
    3. Weapon Swap
    4. Phantasmal Berserker.

    This is the step that not only will destealth you, but makes anyone aware of your presence.
    It's easier to say this entire opener for burst is just wrong.

    And you would know this if you played this build you listed against competent people.

    • Blink. This is an a fairly short 24 second cool down. It provides you with a stun break and a way to escape. Do not use it to engage unless you are 10000% sure you don't need it. It's a super strong defensive skill with the potential to deny your opponent all damage. This is best used as a last defensive option because if you use it early in the fight chances are your opponent will still have a gap closer off cool down.

    Unfortunately, unless you are fighting an opponenet who is oblivious this skill is mainly used for engagement. Thus this comes down to an opponent based suggestion.
    Do you need to use this skill vs a low skilled opponent that doesn't pay attention. No
    Do you need to use this skill vs an opponent that is aware of their surrounding. Yes. Otherwise you wont land the chunck of your damage that comes from the shatter combo. And will be left to try and sustain counterpressure with abilities as predictable as a warrior running the old hammer longbow.
    It wont work in your favor.
    Another reason why this build doesn't see serious play, outside of WvW meme's

    • Mirror. Super speed, healing, projectile reflection. Do not use this in melee range. It has a long cast time. Make sure you are well out of range, LoS, or invisible before you try to pop it. This really goes for any long cast healing skill on any profession.

    SOoooooooooo basically to use this skill you need to be away from the heat of battle.

    ^THIS is the root of the issue and the reason for the thread.
    Please try and remember that.

    • Mass Invisibility. You shouldn't try to pop this when under pressure. This is good for helping you get some cool downs back. If you've burned a lot of your cool downs, LoS then Mass Invisibility and kite. This should buy you close to enough time to setup another burst.

    If you used this on engage then by the time the fight ends you have either won, ran away, or are dead.

    • Illusionary Wave. This can be used to interrupt an opponents burst or put some distance between you and them. Pretty straight forward.

    This doesn't even really demand a response as anyone who has played mes knows this skill is unreliable from the amount of times it bugs and simply doesn't do anything.

    • Distortion. Your "oh kitten" panic button. Damage and condition immunity.

    ONLY if you have resources.
    Resources that die in a single AA
    It can be good. It can also be Really REALLY bad.
    Again only non-mesmer players think this is the greatest thing ever. Everyone else realizes this is par.

    • Desperate Decoy. If you're caught off guard or miss avoiding a burst. This will save you from at least one mistake per fight giving you a little bit of a buffer for error. It will not save you from channeled attacks like rapid fire so don't depend on it for that.

    This trait isn't taken by the majority of people because it can ( and in many cases for mesmer players has) kill you.

    Passive prot for 3 seconds?! and regen, that's not a very good shining example of sustain. This looks like you are reaching.

    • Superspeed, there are 3 sources of it in this build on defensive type skills. Use it to create distance and kite and LoS. If they cant catch you they cant do damage.

    You shouldn't have even listed this.
    This falls under the thing I was talking about. You list things and don't have any clue of how they work in reality. You have to LoS to use your heal to get the superspeed. You use Mass invis to defensively but you also need to use it to engage. ( Big Thonk?). You need to use blink to either engage, run away and kite, or break stun.

    Like that's 2/3 of your defensive utility being used to engage and land burst and the remaining 1/3 cant be used unless you LoS, kite away cause it's casting time.

    • Sigil of Cleansing is really your only dependable condi cleanse in this build, unfortunately.
    • Use your clones! You can use them to intercept attacks or confuse your opponent. Lots of people (not everyone) still fall prey to wasting big skills on a clone.

    In WvW sure ( though I would think most people talking about pvp wouldn't use the most unbalanced game mode to try and make a point) in Spvp. This doesn't work. This is beyond poor.
    And for using your clones.
    If the only people you play against are people that just stated playing an hour ago this works.
    For everyone else with a brain, a core mesmer confusing someone with clones is beyond laughable. Please for the sake of all of our intelligence never suggest that people that have played the game get confused by clones.

    There is a lot to cover here and I'm not going to be covering skills I already covered in the damage and sustain sections unless I think they have special relevance to utility as well. I'll first go over the utility in the build and then options for what to fill your 3rd utility slot with (I intentionally left this empty).

    • Sword 1 provides you with vulnerability and boons strip. In all honesty though you shouldn't be using this much. The most common case might be to cleave downs when you don't want to waste cool downs.

    If you think melee chain with sword is a reliable way to boon strip classes then we have been pvp'ing against people on very opposite ends of the spectrum. I can't think of anyone that has ever sat through a sword melee chain.

    • Illusionary Leap. This provides you with a gap closer, immobilize, and clone production on a 9 1/2 second cool down. Can be used to setup small burst or escape by targeting NPCs.

    ...........
    ...............................
    Like I can't take this seriously honestly. I wont even begin to list the issues with this skill.
    Again. It is glaring that you either don't play mesmer, havent tried the build you listed or both.

    What should you choose in the last slot? Well, this is your true "utility" slot that you need to swap depending on the fight. When you're just traveling I would keep something defensive if place just incase you get jumped but if you have time before the fight you should swap this depending on who your opponent is.

    Defensive options:

    • Arcane Thievery. Superspeed, quickness, boonstrip, condi cleanse. You might pick this up if you are determined to fight a condi build. It wont carry you but can save you in a pinch.
    • Portal. Great for kiting melee professions like warrior.
    • Feedback If you're anticipating a lot of ranged pressure.
    • Null_Field This is kind of offensive/defensive. A combination of well of corruption and well of power without the damage. Good for zoning in team fights.
    • Decoy. Solid defense, I would run this while out of combat just incase I get caught off guard.
    • Mantra of Concentration. I would run this against warriors specifically but you'll benefit against any high CC profession.
    • Signet of Midnight. Stun break, stealth, and blind. It's a second "oh kitten" button more or less.
    • Signet of Illusions. Can be used to recharge Distortion in a pinch. The extra clones will help to make sure your shatters are capped.

    ...there are more here but I think you get the point. This is already a long post.

    Again. Listing things from the wiki and thinking they work .
    is the exact same thing as me saying Banner warriors can tank because they get extra stats and regen.
    It doesn't work like you think it does.

    You fall under category B.
    Not only did you link an edited video from WvW showing the good highlights. ( I gave it a thumbs up always nice to see a player trying out WvW)
    You linked a build with little personal utility. a Far cry from the GREAT you listed
    Virtually no group utility.
    Damage only inside of one combo. otherwise it's non existent.
    You linked a heal which is EXACTLY what the OP was talking with little to no combat funtionality ( you said yourself you gotta LoS or kite away to even use it)

    You need to play this class. I haven't seen someone wiki make a build, throwing everything they could into it, then try and sell it as effective for a while so thanks for that. Good to see people like you are still around.
    You should really test things outside of WvW. Try climbing the ranked ladder with the build you listed and then come back to this discussion.

    Tingle my stingleberry

  • Solori.6025Solori.6025 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 23, 2019

    I cannot stress enough. If you are going to claim a class can do something. At least play it and come back knowing what you are talking about. Wiki only tells you so much.
    Here is an example of what is trying to be done. Let me make an outragoues claim.
    Core thief can perma evade-do damage- can sustain longer than mes- stealths for longer and has blinks. Has blinds and those are basically invuln cause they make you take no damage. AND has better heals that don't require you to leave the fight.

    Now I can go to wiki, and find every utility,( for the sake of arguement I am going to link the theif wiki as I am not trying to honestly make a try hard post) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_thief_skills

    Now I can link you a build and claim.
    " See thief has all this evasion AND even the heal is an evasion, not like they will need it cause they can just evade and stealth."

    Random Meme Build

    -Insert wiki analysis with wrong openings and glorified unnatural situations in which the build plays perfectly-

    --insert a list of traits and utility skills to prove this build works and is effective--

    --Insert list complete list of utility skills and try and make a case that all of them are worth taking --

    Oh youtube vid to try and drive my point home
    https://youtu.be/kJZ9hntli7w

    ^Thats what basically just happened
    And any one that plays the class would eviscerate me.

    Tingle my stingleberry

  • Ansau.7326Ansau.7326 Member ✭✭✭

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Ansau.7326 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    I will tell you about my heals as a chrono main. I use mostly signet of ether and i use it for damage. In openworld basicaly everything dies before it reaches me to my phantasms. If something reaches me i have many blocks and evades.

    Mesmer doesnt need healing. It would be much wiser to give better heals to ele for example.

    During trio raid encounter on last boss you can chain block/evade/distortion bedorethe boss dies to its burning. Where is the need for heals?

    In PvP and WvW where you have brains fighting you instead of AI?

    In pvp/wvw almost noone would use another heal because soe provide burst. It doesnt matter if your target have brain or not. Blocks are not racist and work either way

    Do you realize you agree with me and OP?
    As you said, it is better to choose SoE because of its non-healing mechanic, which exemplifies how kitten mesmer healing skills are at healing.

    Also people here, as usual, missundertands this claim as if now mesmer needs a healing to selfcarry this profession.
    What it is in discussion is why everybody else also has invulns, block, evades, skills and traits that heal... And yet only for mesmers it's an excuse to have such bad healing barely worth 2-3 AA.

  • ButcherofMalakir.4067ButcherofMalakir.4067 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ansau.7326 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Ansau.7326 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    I will tell you about my heals as a chrono main. I use mostly signet of ether and i use it for damage. In openworld basicaly everything dies before it reaches me to my phantasms. If something reaches me i have many blocks and evades.

    Mesmer doesnt need healing. It would be much wiser to give better heals to ele for example.

    During trio raid encounter on last boss you can chain block/evade/distortion bedorethe boss dies to its burning. Where is the need for heals?

    In PvP and WvW where you have brains fighting you instead of AI?

    In pvp/wvw almost noone would use another heal because soe provide burst. It doesnt matter if your target have brain or not. Blocks are not racist and work either way

    Do you realize you agree with me and OP?
    As you said, it is better to choose SoE because of its non-healing mechanic, which exemplifies how kitten mesmer healing skills are at healing.

    Also people here, as usual, missundertands this claim as if now mesmer needs a healing to selfcarry this profession.
    What it is in discussion is why everybody else also has invulns, block, evades, skills and traits that heal... And yet only for mesmers it's an excuse to have such bad healing barely worth 2-3 AA.

    Rly? You mean like berzerker heal? Chronomancer have a great heal if you play style that requires you to use heals. With mistrel your well of eternity heals for ~12k. I know that it is not imidiate but if you play tanky then dieing to oneshot is not supposed to happen (in combination with your blocks).
    I am not interested in pvp/wvw so my knowkage there is limited but if something is dead it cannot kill you. Signet of ether provides burst. If anet buffed any heal it wouldnt metter because only signet of ether provide damage.

    Even if that is true for pvp/wvw op was also talking about pve. In pve i almost never use any healskill on any proffesion unless it provides damage. Generaly for me openworld is easiest for me as mesmer then any other proffesion because i can never die and also everything dies way quicker with boons i give myself

  • Zexanima.7851Zexanima.7851 Member ✭✭✭

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @flog.3485 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @flog.3485 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @LolLookAtMyAP.8394 said:
    Core mesmer is bad, Chronomancer can be extremely tanky and Mirage can be extremely evasive.

    A lot of other classes outevade mesmer without a sweat. Chronomancer is "tanky" only because of signet-distortion trait, if you are looking for tanky build you should look after scrapper

    You also have continuum split, echo of memory, blurred frenzy, invisibility, and blinks. It may not be able to face tank like a scrapper or warrior but they are still pretty good at mitigating damage. A well played chrono can be hard as hell to kill.

    What the point of having such chrono which is the only thing he can do is try to not die ?

    They can do decent enough damage. They also provide excellent utility and group support. The point I'm getting at is you don't have to heal if you don't take the damage in the first place.

    Yet, you have to present such build as I dont know any chrono build that can facetank as good and do damage in same time. Last time I dueled top10 mesmer friend with a warrior, I trashed his chrono bunker/power chrono/mirage power/mirage condi with 1 hand

    that is because warrior rampage is just overtuned. It has nothing to do with how weak mesmer heal is.
    Edit: And frankly, if mesmer heals were so good to the point where you got high heals with high damages, it would become unbalanced and OP as hell.

    Never used rampage in any of the duels. It was suddenly about "great facetanksmer chrono'
    Mesmer healing skill is high tier garbage.
    Healing skill doesnt do damage unless its revenant shiro heal. Which healing skill does damage aside this?
    Would like like to explain yourself ?

    Sorry for the confusion. I never wanted to say that mesmer heals were doing damages, I was only trying to say that good damages paired with high heals is unbalanced, especially when you get so many ways to mitigate/evade damages.

    Holosmith out-evading poor mesmers with ease, take adrenal implant which is pretty much taken by everyone, what this 6 seconds of quickness when you evade spam like you are daredevil and cooling forge to never be in danger for overheat ? 3 seconds block that can do 10k damage to you ? Invul? Their healing skill can be safely blasted to get 10-12k heals on 20s cd.

    Kite, wait for them to deactivate photon forge then pressure them. If you just jump a holosmith and role your face across the keyboard then yeah, they are going to blow you up. I'm really at a loss to see what the point you're trying to make is. I really just think this is a l2p issue.

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @LolLookAtMyAP.8394 said:
    Core mesmer is bad, Chronomancer can be extremely tanky and Mirage can be extremely evasive.

    A lot of other classes outevade mesmer without a sweat. Chronomancer is "tanky" only because of signet-distortion trait, if you are looking for tanky build you should look after scrapper

    You also have continuum split, echo of memory, blurred frenzy, invisibility, and blinks. It may not be able to face tank like a scrapper or warrior but they are still pretty good at mitigating damage. A well played chrono can be hard as hell to kill.

    What the point of having such chrono which is the only thing he can do is try to not die ?

    They can do decent enough damage. They also provide excellent utility and group support. The point I'm getting at is you don't have to heal if you don't take the damage in the first place.

    I would love to see that build. So far it has
    Great dps, personal and group utility, is tanky, and has good heals.
    If this build exist ( it doesn't)makes you wonder why people are complaining about holo and not mes right?

    Where did I say they can do all that in one build? That's the tools they have available to them and you have to build yourself for what you plan on doing. The OP was addressing core mesmer's lack of a good heal. It's good that mesmer doesn't have a strong heal since they already have so many tools to mitigate damage. Could you imagine the kind of monster mesmer would be if it had something like healing signet, consume conditions, or withdraw? I'm not saying mesmer is easy, I'm just saying you shouldn't be relying on your heal to keep you alive.

    . . . . .
    So this was one of the poor constructed arguments a lot of people had to deal with like 5 months ago. With people listing tools and being like " here you go, you have everything you need" While not putting those tools together in a working build. Their was already an egotistic streamer that tried this, please learn from his mistakes. I could go on to list every tool out of the wiki every class has to make it seem like it works and is present in every working build 100% of the time. When reality is much much different.
    When you begin to list things a class can do, I and others expect you to have a build ( or something at least )that showcases exactly what you are claiming.

    They can do decent enough damage. They also provide excellent utility and group support. The point I'm getting at is you don't have to heal if you don't take the damage in the first place.

    You also have continuum split, echo of memory, blurred frenzy, invisibility,

    ^ show me a build that can do what you claim, that has what you listed.

    IF you can't provide evidence that can back up the claims you make then you are A) Lying about it OR B.) talking about something you have no clue about.

    It's like if I said Warriors have a bunker build - List a bunch of traits and utilities- Then claim they have all the tools to 1v5 and it's up to the warrior mains to figure it out.

    Telling a class to play like other classes is a non-argument and a little bit silly. "You should kite and not die" is literally what everyone has to do. That type of argument holds literally no ground when talking about a singular aspect of the class. In this case, the healing.
    ALSO funny you should mention mesmer being a monster. If the damage was anything close to monstrous you would know, because everyone on the forums would be up in arms about how monstrous it is. It already happened, it already got nerfed. So you are late with that claim. By a good 5+ months.

    Okie dokie, here we go

    Build

    Damage
    Interrupting your opponent is key, you specifically want to go for their heal skill if you can. Why is this so important? Interrupting your opponent will:

    1. Proc Power Block which will increase the cool down of an opponents skill. To get the most out of this you need to have a lot of game knowledge. You need to be able to identify the build your opponent is running, the skills that are key for them to land for that build and the animations of that skill. If you don't know that, just try to interrupt their heal or burst.
    2. Between Illusion of Vulnerability and Dazzling you will get an instant stack of 8 vulnerability on your opponent. With the trait Fragility This gives you an extra 12% damage against them so put that to use ASAP before it's cleansed.
    3. Chaotic Interruption. Gives you might and a boon and them some condi. Not huge but just applies more pressure on your interrupts.

    Oh goodie. I had a feeling you would try and link a build similair to this, though a lot of your trait choices are ....questionable.....
    Starting with this.
    To take advantage of powerblock and chaotic interruption you need to be running mantra of distraction. So this build has no condi clear with that combination of traits.
    You can run mimic, but this build loses trait synergy and damage.
    For the sake of completion and trait choices though, distraction is your final utility slot. That makes more sense.

    One example of opening combo you could do would look something like this. You would want to pull it off as fast as possible, it shouldn't take you much longer than 1 second after you break stealth.

    1. Mass Invisibility. Super speed to close the gap and catch your opponent off guard.
    2. Phantasmal Mage. For the interrupts. Try to avoid landing the damage on this, you just want to summon the phantasm, not break stealth.
    3. Weapon Swap
    4. Phantasmal Berserker.

    This is the step that not only will destealth you, but makes anyone aware of your presence.
    It's easier to say this entire opener for burst is just wrong.

    And you would know this if you played this build you listed against competent people.

    • Blink. This is an a fairly short 24 second cool down. It provides you with a stun break and a way to escape. Do not use it to engage unless you are 10000% sure you don't need it. It's a super strong defensive skill with the potential to deny your opponent all damage. This is best used as a last defensive option because if you use it early in the fight chances are your opponent will still have a gap closer off cool down.

    Unfortunately, unless you are fighting an opponenet who is oblivious this skill is mainly used for engagement. Thus this comes down to an opponent based suggestion.
    Do you need to use this skill vs a low skilled opponent that doesn't pay attention. No
    Do you need to use this skill vs an opponent that is aware of their surrounding. Yes. Otherwise you wont land the chunck of your damage that comes from the shatter combo. And will be left to try and sustain counterpressure with abilities as predictable as a warrior running the old hammer longbow.
    It wont work in your favor.
    Another reason why this build doesn't see serious play, outside of WvW meme's

    • Mirror. Super speed, healing, projectile reflection. Do not use this in melee range. It has a long cast time. Make sure you are well out of range, LoS, or invisible before you try to pop it. This really goes for any long cast healing skill on any profession.

    SOoooooooooo basically to use this skill you need to be away from the heat of battle.

    ^THIS is the root of the issue and the reason for the thread.
    Please try and remember that.

    • Mass Invisibility. You shouldn't try to pop this when under pressure. This is good for helping you get some cool downs back. If you've burned a lot of your cool downs, LoS then Mass Invisibility and kite. This should buy you close to enough time to setup another burst.

    If you used this on engage then by the time the fight ends you have either won, ran away, or are dead.

    • Illusionary Wave. This can be used to interrupt an opponents burst or put some distance between you and them. Pretty straight forward.

    This doesn't even really demand a response as anyone who has played mes knows this skill is unreliable from the amount of times it bugs and simply doesn't do anything.

    • Distortion. Your "oh kitten" panic button. Damage and condition immunity.

    ONLY if you have resources.
    Resources that die in a single AA
    It can be good. It can also be Really REALLY bad.
    Again only non-mesmer players think this is the greatest thing ever. Everyone else realizes this is par.

    • Desperate Decoy. If you're caught off guard or miss avoiding a burst. This will save you from at least one mistake per fight giving you a little bit of a buffer for error. It will not save you from channeled attacks like rapid fire so don't depend on it for that.

    This trait isn't taken by the majority of people because it can ( and in many cases for mesmer players has) kill you.

    Passive prot for 3 seconds?! and regen, that's not a very good shining example of sustain. This looks like you are reaching.

    • Superspeed, there are 3 sources of it in this build on defensive type skills. Use it to create distance and kite and LoS. If they cant catch you they cant do damage.

    You shouldn't have even listed this.
    This falls under the thing I was talking about. You list things and don't have any clue of how they work in reality. You have to LoS to use your heal to get the superspeed. You use Mass invis to defensively but you also need to use it to engage. ( Big Thonk?). You need to use blink to either engage, run away and kite, or break stun.

    Like that's 2/3 of your defensive utility being used to engage and land burst and the remaining 1/3 cant be used unless you LoS, kite away cause it's casting time.

    • Sigil of Cleansing is really your only dependable condi cleanse in this build, unfortunately.
    • Use your clones! You can use them to intercept attacks or confuse your opponent. Lots of people (not everyone) still fall prey to wasting big skills on a clone.

    In WvW sure ( though I would think most people talking about pvp wouldn't use the most unbalanced game mode to try and make a point) in Spvp. This doesn't work. This is beyond poor.
    And for using your clones.
    If the only people you play against are people that just stated playing an hour ago this works.
    For everyone else with a brain, a core mesmer confusing someone with clones is beyond laughable. Please for the sake of all of our intelligence never suggest that people that have played the game get confused by clones.

    There is a lot to cover here and I'm not going to be covering skills I already covered in the damage and sustain sections unless I think they have special relevance to utility as well. I'll first go over the utility in the build and then options for what to fill your 3rd utility slot with (I intentionally left this empty).

    • Sword 1 provides you with vulnerability and boons strip. In all honesty though you shouldn't be using this much. The most common case might be to cleave downs when you don't want to waste cool downs.

    If you think melee chain with sword is a reliable way to boon strip classes then we have been pvp'ing against people on very opposite ends of the spectrum. I can't think of anyone that has ever sat through a sword melee chain.

    • Illusionary Leap. This provides you with a gap closer, immobilize, and clone production on a 9 1/2 second cool down. Can be used to setup small burst or escape by targeting NPCs.

    ...........
    ...............................
    Like I can't take this seriously honestly. I wont even begin to list the issues with this skill.
    Again. It is glaring that you either don't play mesmer, havent tried the build you listed or both.

    What should you choose in the last slot? Well, this is your true "utility" slot that you need to swap depending on the fight. When you're just traveling I would keep something defensive if place just incase you get jumped but if you have time before the fight you should swap this depending on who your opponent is.

    Defensive options:

    • Arcane Thievery. Superspeed, quickness, boonstrip, condi cleanse. You might pick this up if you are determined to fight a condi build. It wont carry you but can save you in a pinch.
    • Portal. Great for kiting melee professions like warrior.
    • Feedback If you're anticipating a lot of ranged pressure.
    • Null_Field This is kind of offensive/defensive. A combination of well of corruption and well of power without the damage. Good for zoning in team fights.
    • Decoy. Solid defense, I would run this while out of combat just incase I get caught off guard.
    • Mantra of Concentration. I would run this against warriors specifically but you'll benefit against any high CC profession.
    • Signet of Midnight. Stun break, stealth, and blind. It's a second "oh kitten" button more or less.
    • Signet of Illusions. Can be used to recharge Distortion in a pinch. The extra clones will help to make sure your shatters are capped.

    ...there are more here but I think you get the point. This is already a long post.

    Again. Listing things from the wiki and thinking they work .
    is the exact same thing as me saying Banner warriors can tank because they get extra stats and regen.
    It doesn't work like you think it does.

    You fall under category B.
    Not only did you link an edited video from WvW showing the good highlights. ( I gave it a thumbs up always nice to see a player trying out WvW)
    You linked a build with little personal utility. a Far cry from the GREAT you listed
    Virtually no group utility.
    Damage only inside of one combo. otherwise it's non existent.
    You linked a heal which is EXACTLY what the OP was talking with little to no combat funtionality ( you said yourself you gotta LoS or kite away to even use it)

    You need to play this class. I haven't seen someone wiki make a build, throwing everything they could into it, then try and sell it as effective for a while so thanks for that. Good to see people like you are still around.
    You should really test things outside of WvW. Try climbing the ranked ladder with the build you listed and then come back to this discussion.

    I was roaming with this last night in WvW on suboptimal gear and was pretty successful even considering I haven't practiced it. I'll even record some clips of kills and deaths for you if you really want. I did swap pain for distraction though. The only professions I had trouble with where thief and spellbreaker and pure bunker builds but that's to be expected. I've already mentioned I don't play sPvP so I don't know why everyone is taking it in context of that.

    Everyone acts like you're going to be fighting the top 10 players 99% of the time you're playing. You're not though. This is a casual MMO and most the people you'll see are running whatever build they feel like and are only use to fighting metabattle builds. Yeah, this build would get destroyed in high ranked sPvP but I'll iterate again that I wasn't addressing that. I'm fairly sure by this point no matter what information I provide you're going to find fault with it because you're just determined on me being wrong.

    This whole thing has gotten off topic though. The original point I was making is that mesmer doesn't need a stronger heal, their's works just fine. Matter in fact I was having a great time running Mirror last night with all the LB rangers and rifle berserkers I've been seeing. If you're tying to pop a heal mid fight right in front of me then yeah, I'm going to punish you for it. I don't care what profession you're playing. You should always stealth/LoS/kite before trying to heal when you have a cast time.

    No longer playing the game due to PvP being abandon.

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 23, 2019

    Anet when they removed mesmer retaliation access : "mesmers aren't supposed to be hit...."
    Cough cough...
    Players when mesmers can't be hit : "We can't hit them, nerf nerf !"
    Cough cough...

  • Solori.6025Solori.6025 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @viquing.8254 said:
    Anet when they removed mesmer retaliation access : "mesmers aren't supposed to be hit...."
    Cough cough...
    Players when mesmers can't be hit : "We can't hit them, nerf nerf !"
    Cough cough...

    Right!

    Tingle my stingleberry

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 17, 2019

    try this>
    'Guild Wars 2 - "Mesmeric Medic" Chrono Healing Build l Gameplay 2019 l' by Kroof
    Please! (Respect all Guild Wars 2 video streamers-Thank You!)

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @LolLookAtMyAP.8394 said:
    Core mesmer is bad, Chronomancer can be extremely tanky and Mirage can be extremely evasive.

    It really comes down to the above. Ya, mirage can evade significant amount of damage (particularly using staff in PvE) and chrono has blocks, and using inspiration, can do decent self heal. But core mesmer healing is pathetic and it impacts your heal capacity if your not playing chrono bunker. It is one of the reasons mesmer has no viable (to a certain value of viability lol) PvP power builds except shatter.

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