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Engineer Alchemy Trait Line


Ghos.1326

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Hello, I'm back again for some changes to the Alchemy trait line. These changes will be listed in a "notes" style of writing, to reflect the reasoning of the change taking place.Lets start by talking about Alchemy to begin with. Alchemy is a trait line that focuses on gaining boons, and mitigating/manipulating conditions and condition damage. A couple focuses in terms of utility skills would be the medkit and elixir gun, and elixirs themselves. I feel that the gaining boons aspect of the trait line is in top shape: it does it extremely well, thanks to things like hidden flask and transmute. However, I also feel that Transmute has too long of a cooldown, seeing as the cooldown for the elixirs are usually really long (active Elixir B + C, U is fine where it is currently). These changes will focus on how I feel some things can be adjusted and even fully changed to better capture the whole theme of the trait line, specifically Transmute, Backpack Regenerator, and Purity of Purpose.

Transmute - CURRENT: Drink a Lesser Elixir C to Convert conditions to boons when you reach a certain condition threshold. Cooldown = 60sIf the active Elixir C will continue to keep its cooldown at 40s, then this trait should come down to a cooldown of 30s. This would also help the condition to boon theme shine much more. If this trait keeps its 60s cooldown, then the active Elixir C should have its cooldown reduced from 40s to 30-35s, to promote active cleansing rather than passive cleansing ( and would be a much better feeling condition management choice for core Engineer). Also, four score and 7 years ago (not really), the tooltip for active Elixir C stated that, after you used Elixir C, incoming conditions would continue to convert to boons for a small amount of time. I think instead of continuing to convert incoming conditions to boons after use, it should instead grant Resistance for 3s after use. The toss Elixir C toolbelt skill shouldn't be touched, and should remain the same.

Backpack Regenerator - CURRENT: Recover health while wielding an Engineering kit.NEW: When swapping to an Engineering kit, recover health over a period of time.Health recovery per second: 117uptime: 5sICD: 10sSince this trait line isn't supposed to be about healing, I think this would be a good change. This way, no crazy amounts of healing could come out of kit camping on things like Medkit to get insane amounts of healing coupled with the healing from the Inventions trait line (using a hypothetical scenario that my suggested changed for Inventions were implemented). Also, this could also be good for the Engineer, since they are kit swapping often, and don't really want to stay in a single kit for too long (outside of the current Juggernaut, which I think should see a change too. See my other posts for Juggernaut changes elsewhere). A great balance for adding a little extra healing for a small amount of time for the Engineer when coupled with the Inventions trait line.

Compounding Chemicals - CURRENT: When you grant boons to allies, they heal for a small amount.NEW: Compounding Chemicals and Purity of Purpose have been merged. This trait is now called Master of Alchemy.Master of Alchemy - When using a condition clearing skill, conditions cleared are now converted to boons instead. Gain increased Concentration.ICD: 15sConcentration Increase: 240Healing effect granted per boon is now removed.How this skill would work, is it would proc the condition convert to boons while the effect of the clearing skill is in play. So for example, if it's an instant clear (healing turret), the 2 conditions cleared from its overcharge is converted to boons instead, and then the Master of Alchemy effect ends. If the clear skill is a prolonged skill, the Master of Alchemy effect lasts for the duration for the clear skill (Purge Gyro as an example, 5 conditions cleared = 5 condis converted to boons). This would make it to where the trait is not invalidated from clearing only 1 condition when using a skill like purge gyro, but being locked behind an ICD so that you can't chain condition conversion so it's not over the top powerful. Also, would fit the theme of the trait line, condition manipulation/mitigation and boon application.

NEW GRANDMASTER TRAIT: Refined ElixirsElixirs consumed now remove conditions from you.Conditions removed: 2Toss Elixirs are not affected by this traitThis trait could be a competing choice between the other 2 Grandmaster traits: HGH and Iron Blooded. This way, Elixirs won't be used together clearing conditions and granting offensive progress. Instead, you would have to choose between either being offensive with Elixirs, being defensive with boon granting Elixirs (Iron Blooded), or this trait, being the anti-condition choice (flat condition removal). Also, removing the Toss Elixir toolbelts from being affected by this trait ensures that condition removal won't be too strong. In my humblest opinion, a solid change. On the fence on whether or not the passive Elixirs should be affected by this trait, as it would provide great synergy, but the possibility of it being too strong because of this could be bad for the game's health. I'm leaning more on the passive Elixirs wouldn't be affected by this trait.

These changes could have great synergy together, and really push for its theme, bringing a better balance to core Engineer, as well as its Elite Specialization counterparts. Feel free to leave comments, suggestions, and constructive feedback, my fellow players.

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@"Ghos.1326" said:Hello, I'm back again for some changes to the Alchemy trait line. These changes will be listed in a "notes" style of writing, to reflect the reasoning of the change taking place.Lets start by talking about Alchemy to begin with. Alchemy is a trait line that focuses on gaining boons, and mitigating/manipulating conditions and condition damage. A couple focuses in terms of utility skills would be the medkit and elixir gun, and elixirs themselves. I feel that the gaining boons aspect of the trait line is in top shape: it does it extremely well, thanks to things like hidden flask and transmute. However, I also feel that Transmute has too long of a cooldown, seeing as the cooldown for the elixirs are usually really long (active Elixir B + C, U is fine where it is currently). These changes will focus on how I feel some things can be adjusted and even fully changed to better capture the whole theme of the trait line, specifically Transmute, Backpack Regenerator, and Purity of Purpose.

Transmute - CURRENT: Drink a Lesser Elixir C to Convert conditions to boons when you reach a certain condition threshold. Cooldown = 60sIf the active Elixir C will continue to keep its cooldown at 40s, then this trait should come down to a cooldown of 30s. This would also help the condition to boon theme shine much more. If this trait keeps its 60s cooldown, then the active Elixir C should have its cooldown reduced from 40s to 30-35s, to promote active cleansing rather than passive cleansing ( and would be a much better feeling condition management choice for core Engineer). Also, four score and 7 years ago (not really), the tooltip for active Elixir C stated that, after you used Elixir C, incoming conditions would continue to convert to boons for a small amount of time. I think instead of continuing to convert incoming conditions to boons after use, it should instead grant Resistance for 3s after use. The toss Elixir C toolbelt skill shouldn't be touched, and should remain the same.

Are you insane? This trait is already passive lifesaving garbage that should be removed from the game. I'm not sure if you're aware how ridiculously difficult it is to play a condi build right now due to stuff like this but it 100% does NOT need to activate more often. The game needs fewer traits like this and with longer cooldowns. Elixir C is fine as it is. If anything, this trait should be deleted. Adding resistance to it? No. Just no.

Backpack Regenerator - CURRENT: Recover health while wielding an Engineering kit.NEW: When swapping to an Engineering kit, recover health over a period of time.Health recovery per second: 117uptime: 5sICD: 10sSince this trait line isn't supposed to be about healing, I think this would be a good change. This way, no crazy amounts of healing could come out of kit camping on things like Medkit to get insane amounts of healing coupled with the healing from the Inventions trait line (using a hypothetical scenario that my suggested changed for Inventions were implemented). Also, this could also be good for the Engineer, since they are kit swapping often, and don't really want to stay in a single kit for too long (outside of the current Juggernaut, which I think should see a change too. See my other posts for Juggernaut changes elsewhere). A great balance for adding a little extra healing for a small amount of time for the Engineer when coupled with the Inventions trait line.

This is fine. Kit swapping should be encouraged. Kit camping is bad gameplay anyway.

Compounding Chemicals - CURRENT: When you grant boons to allies, they heal for a small amount.NEW: Compounding Chemicals and Purity of Purpose have been merged. This trait is now called Master of Alchemy.Master of Alchemy - When using a condition clearing skill, conditions cleared are now converted to boons instead. Gain increased Concentration.ICD: 15sConcentration Increase: 240Healing effect granted per boon is now removed.How this skill would work, is it would proc the condition convert to boons while the effect of the clearing skill is in play. So for example, if it's an instant clear (healing turret), the 2 conditions cleared from its overcharge is converted to boons instead, and then the Master of Alchemy effect ends. If the clear skill is a prolonged skill, the Master of Alchemy effect lasts for the duration for the clear skill (Purge Gyro as an example, 5 conditions cleared = 5 condis converted to boons). This would make it to where the trait is not invalidated from clearing only 1 condition when using a skill like purge gyro, but being locked behind an ICD so that you can't chain condition conversion so it's not over the top powerful. Also, would fit the theme of the trait line, condition manipulation/mitigation and boon application.

Again, this is already too strong. Combining 3 ridiculously OP things into one trait only makes it even more mandatory for PvP. If anything, Purity of Purpose needs to be deleted. Adding an ICD is nice, but not enough to compensate for the trait doing way too much.

NEW GRANDMASTER TRAIT: Refined ElixirsElixirs consumed now remove conditions from you.Conditions removed: 2Toss Elixirs are not affected by this traitThis trait could be a competing choice between the other 2 Grandmaster traits: HGH and Iron Blooded. This way, Elixirs won't be used together clearing conditions and granting offensive progress. Instead, you would have to choose between either being offensive with Elixirs, being defensive with boon granting Elixirs (Iron Blooded), or this trait, being the anti-condition choice (flat condition removal). Also, removing the Toss Elixir toolbelts from being affected by this trait ensures that condition removal won't be too strong. In my humblest opinion, a solid change. On the fence on whether or not the passive Elixirs should be affected by this trait, as it would provide great synergy, but the possibility of it being too strong because of this could be bad for the game's health. I'm leaning more on the passive Elixirs wouldn't be affected by this trait.

Sigh.. Think about this. With your proposed changes, how would a condi build EVER be able to do ANY damage to an engineer running the Alchemy line?

If you think these changes will help, I suggest you try playing condi engi and fighting a current meta build conversion holo. You will lose, badly. You will barely do any damage to them at all, and that is with the current Alchemy/Inventions combo. With your proposed changes, it'd be even worse.

Overall 1/10. Terrible suggestions. Sorry.

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@coro.3176 said:

@"Ghos.1326" said:Hello, I'm back again for some changes to the Alchemy trait line. These changes will be listed in a "notes" style of writing, to reflect the reasoning of the change taking place.Lets start by talking about Alchemy to begin with. Alchemy is a trait line that focuses on gaining boons, and mitigating/manipulating conditions and condition damage. A couple focuses in terms of utility skills would be the medkit and elixir gun, and elixirs themselves. I feel that the gaining boons aspect of the trait line is in top shape: it does it extremely well, thanks to things like hidden flask and transmute. However, I also feel that Transmute has too long of a cooldown, seeing as the cooldown for the elixirs are usually really long (active Elixir B + C, U is fine where it is currently). These changes will focus on how I feel some things can be adjusted and even fully changed to better capture the whole theme of the trait line, specifically Transmute, Backpack Regenerator, and Purity of Purpose.

Transmute - CURRENT: Drink a Lesser Elixir C to Convert conditions to boons when you reach a certain condition threshold. Cooldown = 60sIf the active Elixir C will continue to keep its cooldown at 40s, then this trait should come down to a cooldown of 30s. This would also help the condition to boon theme shine much more. If this trait keeps its 60s cooldown, then the active Elixir C should have its cooldown reduced from 40s to 30-35s, to promote active cleansing rather than passive cleansing ( and would be a much better feeling condition management choice for core Engineer). Also, four score and 7 years ago (not really), the tooltip for active Elixir C stated that, after you used Elixir C, incoming conditions would continue to convert to boons for a small amount of time. I think instead of continuing to convert incoming conditions to boons after use, it should instead grant Resistance for 3s after use. The toss Elixir C toolbelt skill shouldn't be touched, and should remain the same.

Are you insane? This trait is already passive lifesaving garbage that should be removed from the game. I'm not sure if you're aware how ridiculously difficult it is to play a condi build right now due to stuff like this but it 100% does NOT need to activate more often. The game needs fewer traits like this and with longer cooldowns. Elixir C is fine as it is. If anything, this trait should be deleted. Adding resistance to it? No. Just no.

Backpack Regenerator - CURRENT: Recover health while wielding an Engineering kit.NEW: When swapping to an Engineering kit, recover health over a period of time.Health recovery per second: 117uptime: 5sICD: 10sSince this trait line isn't supposed to be about healing, I think this would be a good change. This way, no crazy amounts of healing could come out of kit camping on things like Medkit to get insane amounts of healing coupled with the healing from the Inventions trait line (using a hypothetical scenario that my suggested changed for Inventions were implemented). Also, this could also be good for the Engineer, since they are kit swapping often, and don't really want to stay in a single kit for too long (outside of the current Juggernaut, which I think should see a change too. See my other posts for Juggernaut changes elsewhere). A great balance for adding a little extra healing for a small amount of time for the Engineer when coupled with the Inventions trait line.

This is fine. Kit swapping should be encouraged. Kit camping is bad gameplay anyway.

Compounding Chemicals - CURRENT: When you grant boons to allies, they heal for a small amount.NEW: Compounding Chemicals and Purity of Purpose have been merged. This trait is now called Master of Alchemy.Master of Alchemy - When using a condition clearing skill, conditions cleared are now converted to boons instead. Gain increased Concentration.ICD: 15sConcentration Increase: 240Healing effect granted per boon is now removed.How this skill would work, is it would proc the condition convert to boons while the effect of the clearing skill is in play. So for example, if it's an instant clear (healing turret), the 2 conditions cleared from its overcharge is converted to boons instead, and then the Master of Alchemy effect ends. If the clear skill is a prolonged skill, the Master of Alchemy effect lasts for the duration for the clear skill (Purge Gyro as an example, 5 conditions cleared = 5 condis converted to boons). This would make it to where the trait is not invalidated from clearing only 1 condition when using a skill like purge gyro, but being locked behind an ICD so that you can't chain condition conversion so it's not over the top powerful. Also, would fit the theme of the trait line, condition manipulation/mitigation and boon application.

Again, this is already too strong. Combining 3 ridiculously OP things into one trait only makes it even more mandatory for PvP. If anything, Purity of Purpose needs to be deleted. Adding an ICD is nice, but not enough to compensate for the trait doing way too much.

NEW GRANDMASTER TRAIT: Refined ElixirsElixirs consumed now remove conditions from you.Conditions removed: 2Toss Elixirs are not affected by this traitThis trait could be a competing choice between the other 2 Grandmaster traits: HGH and Iron Blooded. This way, Elixirs won't be used together clearing conditions and granting offensive progress. Instead, you would have to choose between either being offensive with Elixirs, being defensive with boon granting Elixirs (Iron Blooded), or this trait, being the anti-condition choice (flat condition removal). Also, removing the Toss Elixir toolbelts from being affected by this trait ensures that condition removal won't be too strong. In my humblest opinion, a solid change. On the fence on whether or not the passive Elixirs should be affected by this trait, as it would provide great synergy, but the possibility of it being too strong because of this could be bad for the game's health. I'm leaning more on the passive Elixirs wouldn't be affected by this trait.

Sigh.. Think about this. With your proposed changes, how would a condi build EVER be able to do ANY damage to an engineer running the Alchemy line?

If you think these changes will help, I suggest you try playing condi engi and fighting a current meta build conversion holo. You will lose, badly. You will barely do any damage to them at all, and that is with the current Alchemy/Inventions combo. With your proposed changes, it'd be even worse.

Overall 1/10. Terrible suggestions. Sorry.

These changes are meant to be in tandum with my proposed changes to Inventions (as stated in the post as well). It also looks at everything as a whole. There are also some nerfs suggested in the Inventions trait line post to both Bulwark Gyro, and Hard Light Arena.

Alchemy is supposed to be condition mitigation/manipulation as well. It's supposed to be the purpose of the trait line. As it is now, you HAVE to take both Inventions and Alchemy to be decently survivable. Alchemy is supposed to be anti-condition.

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So, Condi Engi's main burst skill, Blowtorch, is on a 12 second cooldown. Your proposed change to Transmute ALONE negates 1/3 of all landed Blowtorches and turns them into boons. That's not counting blocks or blinds or evades or invulns or any of the other ways you can defend against blowtorch. If you fail to do any of that, fully 1 out of every 3 blowtorches just vanishes and becomes boons thanks to that trait. That is madness. Can you imagine if you could pick a trait that just automatically turned 1/3 rapid fires into healing? or 1/3 phase smashes into stability or 1/3 backstabs into protection? People would riot .. and rightly so! It's passive gameplay that requires you to do nothing skillful.

Then you could run active Elixir C, which comes with its toolbelt Toss Elixir C and you've already got boatloads of cleanse. Then you could add Elixir Gun, Elixir B, your other proposed cleanse trait, and you're cleansing multiple condi basically every few seconds. It's too much!

How do I know that is too much cleanse? I play with exactly ONE cleanse - Healing Turret. It cleanses 2 condi on a 15-20s cooldown. (also, rocket boots for immob/cripple/chill) and I can fight the current condi builds just fine. I struggle a bit vs condi chrono, but aside from that 2 cleanse per 20s is absolutely enough.

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@coro.3176 said:So, Condi Engi's main burst skill, Blowtorch, is on a 12 second cooldown. Your proposed change to Transmute ALONE negates 1/3 of all landed Blowtorches and turns them into boons. That's not counting blocks or blinds or evades or invulns or any of the other ways you can defend against blowtorch. If you fail to do any of that, fully 1 out of every 3 blowtorches just vanishes and becomes boons thanks to that trait. That is madness. Can you imagine if you could pick a trait that just automatically turned 1/3 rapid fires into healing? or 1/3 phase smashes into stability or 1/3 backstabs into protection? People would riot .. and rightly so! It's passive gameplay that requires you to do nothing skillful.

Then you could run active Elixir C, which comes with its toolbelt Toss Elixir C and you've already got boatloads of cleanse. Then you could add Elixir Gun, Elixir B, your other proposed cleanse trait, and you're cleansing multiple condi basically every few seconds. It's too much!

How do I know that is too much cleanse? I play with exactly ONE cleanse - Healing Turret. It cleanses 2 condi on a 15-20s cooldown. (also, rocket boots for immob/cripple/chill) and I can fight the current condi builds just fine. I struggle a bit vs condi chrono, but aside from that 2 cleanse per 20s is absolutely enough.

not every few seconds, every 15s the conditions that you do cleanse is converted into boons. but it only works for one skill usage. The example given was healing turret, which has instant cleanse. the 2 condis you would cleanse, is turned into boons instead. no extra cleanse added. Not sure where you see extra cleanse added.

The only extra cleanse you would get is from the new trait, which only works for consuming elixirs, not counting passive elixir procs from C or B, and not counting throwing elixirs. really, nothing would have changed, besides every 15s, the condis that you do cleanse from skills and other sources already present and instead turned into boons.

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@Ghos.1326 said:

@coro.3176 said:So, Condi Engi's main burst skill, Blowtorch, is on a 12 second cooldown. Your proposed change to Transmute
ALONE
negates 1/3 of all landed Blowtorches and turns them into boons. That's not counting blocks or blinds or evades or invulns or any of the other ways you can defend against blowtorch. If you fail to do any of that, fully 1 out of every 3 blowtorches just vanishes and becomes boons thanks to that trait. That is
madness
. Can you imagine if you could pick a trait that just automatically turned 1/3 rapid fires into healing? or 1/3 phase smashes into stability or 1/3 backstabs into protection? People would riot .. and rightly so! It's passive gameplay that requires you to do nothing skillful.

Then you could run active Elixir C, which comes with its toolbelt Toss Elixir C and you've already got boatloads of cleanse. Then you could add Elixir Gun, Elixir B, your other proposed cleanse trait, and you're cleansing multiple condi basically every few seconds. It's too much!

How do I know that is too much cleanse? I play with exactly ONE cleanse - Healing Turret. It cleanses 2 condi on a 15-20s cooldown. (also, rocket boots for immob/cripple/chill) and I can fight the current condi builds just fine. I struggle a bit vs condi chrono, but aside from that 2 cleanse per 20s is absolutely enough.

not every few seconds, every 15s the conditions that you do cleanse is converted into boons. but it only works for one skill usage. The example given was healing turret, which has instant cleanse. the 2 condis you would cleanse, is turned into boons instead. no extra cleanse added. Not sure where you see extra cleanse added.

The only extra cleanse you would get is from the new trait, which only works for consuming elixirs, not counting passive elixir procs from C or B, and not counting throwing elixirs. really, nothing would have changed, besides every 15s, the condis that you do cleanse from skills and other sources already present and instead turned into boons.

I'm saying the combination of the existing cleanse skills + traits in addition to your suggested changes are too much. It's already at a pretty extreme level if we take something like conversion holo or support scrapper. Adding even more cleanse (eg. by nearly halving the ICD of Transmute or adding cleanse-on-elixir-skills) just puts it so far over the top, it would be effectively immune to all condi damage.

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@coro.3176 said:

@coro.3176 said:So, Condi Engi's main burst skill, Blowtorch, is on a 12 second cooldown. Your proposed change to Transmute
ALONE
negates 1/3 of all landed Blowtorches and turns them into boons. That's not counting blocks or blinds or evades or invulns or any of the other ways you can defend against blowtorch. If you fail to do any of that, fully 1 out of every 3 blowtorches just vanishes and becomes boons thanks to that trait. That is
madness
. Can you imagine if you could pick a trait that just automatically turned 1/3 rapid fires into healing? or 1/3 phase smashes into stability or 1/3 backstabs into protection? People would riot .. and rightly so! It's passive gameplay that requires you to do nothing skillful.

Then you could run active Elixir C, which comes with its toolbelt Toss Elixir C and you've already got boatloads of cleanse. Then you could add Elixir Gun, Elixir B, your other proposed cleanse trait, and you're cleansing multiple condi basically every few seconds. It's too much!

How do I know that is too much cleanse? I play with exactly ONE cleanse - Healing Turret. It cleanses 2 condi on a 15-20s cooldown. (also, rocket boots for immob/cripple/chill) and I can fight the current condi builds just fine. I struggle a bit vs condi chrono, but aside from that 2 cleanse per 20s is absolutely enough.

not every few seconds, every 15s the conditions that you do cleanse is converted into boons. but it only works for one skill usage. The example given was healing turret, which has instant cleanse. the 2 condis you would cleanse, is turned into boons instead. no extra cleanse added. Not sure where you see extra cleanse added.

The only extra cleanse you would get is from the new trait, which only works for consuming elixirs, not counting passive elixir procs from C or B, and not counting throwing elixirs. really, nothing would have changed, besides every 15s, the condis that you do cleanse from skills and other sources already present and instead turned into boons.

I'm saying the combination of the existing cleanse skills + traits in addition to your suggested changes are too much. It's already at a pretty extreme level if we take something like conversion holo or support scrapper. Adding even more cleanse (eg. by nearly halving the ICD of Transmute or adding cleanse-on-elixir-skills) just puts it so far over the top, it would be effectively immune to all condi damage.

if, hypothetically, the changes I suggested for bulwark gyro and hard light arena listed in the Inventions trait line post were to also be implemented, then it would actually be ok. conversion holo is strong for one reason and one reason only: hard light arena. it's 12 procs of protection, each lasting 2s, more with boon duration. this is of course at 50% heat or higher. even without the heat threshold, it's still an 8s uptime, proccing prot 8 times, each lasting 2s. my change for it suggests nerfing this, regular uptime being at 5s, each prot proc only lasting 1s, with 7s being above 50% heat. keep the cd the same on it, it doesn't need to change as it's strong already.

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