Sword 2 in WvW

So i'd like to raise this topic, about the difference between rev's damage in WvW and PvP. This of course refers to small scale WvW fights and not zerging (large scale) as revs tend to use hammer in those scenarios.Basically, all these nerfs that have been applied to rev in the past, have all been targeted to PvP and none of them affect WvW. What we have now because of that, is almost instant 25 might stack revs just pressing 2 buttons and downing someone. Now idk about you, but I personally don't much approve of this, as putting in basically no effort for a kill is not in the least satisfying. Sure, against actual good players, you will get challenging fights, but against not so great players it's entirely possible to press 2 buttons and down them. A while back i converted my dps rev to full time support, in large part because it just felt kinda dumb (and i also kinda like support rev ofc but yeah).I believe some nerfs to the damage a S/S rev outputs in WvW are in order, the most obvious one to me being sword 2. Just apply the PvP version of that skill to WvW as well.When you add in the differences of sword 2, staff 5, incensed response, it's like dps rev in PvP and WvW are completely different classes.Keep the crazy might stacks ok, but at least shave some dmg of this 5s cd attack that basically costs no energy.Curious to see what other wvw rev players think, maybe you just love killing folks with 2 button presses, maybe you think it's perfectly fine to have god mode cheats too... Anyway bring your arguments.

WvW already has built-in damage reduction in the form of every supply depot, flag pole, and random invisible object splitting up the attack.

The only saving grace this ability has is its potential to do a decent amount of damage, the key word being "potential." As @Clownmug.8357 already mentioned, there's some weird targeting issues which will not be resolved in its current state - ever. Even being near a flag pole, wall, medical kit, a box, etc. decreases the damage of sword 2 by at least 33% and it's something no other class has to deal with. Moreover, it's only really strong if you manage to isolate your target so all three bolts will hit it instead of being split up among multiple enemies, that also counts things like necro minions, ranger pets, and mesmer clones (two of these can rip boons off you again and again; have fun building up those might stacks). How often do you find people running solo in wvw these days?

Sword 2 can hit hard, but it's very unreliable. The only way I could see a nerf being justified is if sword 2 was redesigned, something I really hope anet doesn't do with their track record of rev skill changes, to somehow sidestep the whole targeting issue it has right now.

@Scrib.9207 said:So i'd like to raise this topic, about the difference between rev's damage in WvW and PvP. This of course refers to small scale WvW fights and not zerging (large scale) as revs tend to use hammer in those scenarios.Basically, all these nerfs that have been applied to rev in the past, have all been targeted to PvP and none of them affect WvW. What we have now because of that, is almost instant 25 might stack revs just pressing 2 buttons and downing someone. Now idk about you, but I personally don't much approve of this, as putting in basically no effort for a kill is not in the least satisfying. Sure, against actual good players, you will get challenging fights, but against not so great players it's entirely possible to press 2 buttons and down them. A while back i converted my dps rev to full time support, in large part because it just felt kinda dumb (and i also kinda like support rev ofc but yeah).I believe some nerfs to the damage a S/S rev outputs in WvW are in order, the most obvious one to me being sword 2. Just apply the PvP version of that skill to WvW as well.When you add in the differences of sword 2, staff 5, incensed response, it's like dps rev in PvP and WvW are completely different classes.Keep the crazy might stacks ok, but at least shave some dmg of this 5s cd attack that basically costs no energy.Curious to see what other wvw rev players think, maybe you just love killing folks with 2 button presses, maybe you think it's perfectly fine to have god mode cheats too... Anyway bring your arguments.

It’s wvw people should expect higher damage abilities and not run full glass. And if you are running full glass expect to get blown the fuck up. And a lot of people in WVW, especially solo, seem to run that glass gear and/or are just so bad they stand there and let you combo them with Deathstrike/shackling wave/precision strike. WvW Skill balance shouldn’t be tuned around the lowest common denominator and probably shouldn’t be tuned around small scale fights, either.

And just to go back to my first point, it’s not just Revenant that has differences between wvw and pvp. The rule set is completely different as well; there are stat combos that don’t exist in pvp and some rune sets that are really strong for certain classes that have either been removed from pvp and/or altered (Rune of the Adventurer for example is better in wvw and strong for mirage). With other classes having access to stronger abilities and better gear sets as well, I don’t think rev needs to be toned down in this regard; a rev needs to run high damage gear anyway if they want to make full use of this ability, which limits the inherent design possibilities in terms of what gear you can run and how survivable you are.

Just gonna leave this here...

The rev damage, especially from Sword 2, isnt really that high, compared to other bursts from classes like warrior or mesmer. If someone runs full glass cannon, then ofc this person does a lot of damage, even more to another glass cannon. Thats a reason why someone should play with vitality/toughness or protection. Even more nerfs to the Revenant,which is already not the best option, are completely wrong.

I hate those people that complain about getting problems with classes that one-shot someone because there are only glass cannons in the game...

@Arkaile.5604 said:Even being near a flag pole, wall, medical kit, a box, etc. decreases the damage of sword 2 by at least 33% and it's something no other class has to deal with.

I wish revenants would play something else to learn that it does indeed affect other classes besides them poor little selves.

Rev damage is toned way up in WvW but so are defenses, in terms of raw toughness numbers being high, better access to passive traits that have been nerfed in PvP, longer boon durations, and now the simple fact that you can run with your mount. So if you're going to run full glass expect to get hit like full glass.

In addition, rev damage is far from the most ridiculous damage in WvW. Soulbeast can one-pump you from 1800 range regardless of your toughness. If you're glassier, rifle warrior can hit you for 3/4 of your health when you're least expecting it- deadeye can do the same from range. Arc divider can one-pump most classes without passives even after the nerfs. Fresh air ele can one-combo. Eat a reaper shroud 4 and you're dead. Power mes can still one-shot burst easily if you're caught unaware.

In PvP toughness is nearly useless on most classes, before I stopped regularly playing PvP I didn't even notice that great of a difference between demo and mara amulets. I actually have found it easier to kill targets in PvP despite the far lower numbers on all skills ranging from sword 2, sword autos, staff 5, long cd on warding rift, trash incensed response, trash roiling mists, trash shared empowerment.

The culprit is then obviously not precision strike. It's off hand sword. This trash designed weapon is the same damage-wise in WvW and PvP and is the only thing keeping rev in the PvP meta. I've been saying it a lot, nerf off hand sword and buff axe and shield. Maybe nerfing this will allow the ridiculous pressure to go away, and maybe buffing other weapons will allow rev to have some utility rather than being a one-shot bot.

@Scrib.9207 said:

I believe some nerfs to the damage a S/S rev outputs in WvW are in order, the most obvious one to me being sword 2. Just apply the PvP version of that skill to WvW as well.

Curious to see what other wvw rev players think, maybe you just love killing folks with 2 button presses, maybe you think it's perfectly fine to have god mode cheats too... Anyway bring your arguments.

They removed Brutal Momentum from the game because was an unpredictable hard hitting attack. But then why stealth still exists in the game? Before erasing an attack which has a 1.25 second cast (ant not near 1 as the tooltip says) and which is pretty damn telegraphed I would like to see stealth skills nuked from the game. That would be fair. That's my argument.

@"ventusthunder.5067" said:Rev damage is toned way up in WvW but so are defenses, in terms of raw toughness numbers being high, better access to passive traits that have been nerfed in PvP, longer boon durations, and now the simple fact that you can run with your mount. So if you're going to run full glass expect to get hit like full glass.

In addition, rev damage is far from the most ridiculous damage in WvW. Soulbeast can one-pump you from 1800 range regardless of your toughness. If you're glassier, rifle warrior can hit you for 3/4 of your health when you're least expecting it- deadeye can do the same from range. Arc divider can one-pump most classes without passives even after the nerfs. Fresh air ele can one-combo. Eat a reaper shroud 4 and you're dead. Power mes can still one-shot burst easily if you're caught unaware.

In PvP toughness is nearly useless on most classes, before I stopped regularly playing PvP I didn't even notice that great of a difference between demo and mara amulets. I actually have found it easier to kill targets in PvP despite the far lower numbers on all skills ranging from sword 2, sword autos, staff 5, long cd on warding rift, trash incensed response, trash roiling mists, trash shared empowerment.

The culprit is then obviously not precision strike. It's off hand sword. This trash designed weapon is the same damage-wise in WvW and PvP and is the only thing keeping rev in the PvP meta. I've been saying it a lot, nerf off hand sword and buff axe and shield. Maybe nerfing this will allow the ridiculous pressure to go away, and maybe buffing other weapons will allow rev to have some utility rather than being a one-shot bot.

Rev is the most redicuclous dmg in game? what about mesmer,one shots (condi & power), 30k hits from warriors and soulbeasts or do u remember the hammer one-shot build from guardian? its still there too. and looked at holos/thiefs and scourges, The rev damage is extremely low.

If u say its ridicoulus, what is the damage of other classes then?

These threads are fucking cringe. Why don't you also complain that infuse the light is too long (3 seconds comparing to 4s of same shit we copypasted from warriors) or it's hard to hear or notice huh

Roflcopter combo starts with shadostep which has animation, pretty long one, even for pre-competitive lvls and easily dodged. I know 48 years old roamer that can dodge and predict this easily in small scale, why can't you idc. It's not like full zerk lvl can do the same sort of ridiculous bullshit CORE MESMER can pull on you. Like oneshotting your bunker friend, stomping him (while also CCing you lel) and then running away if there is a need for that all.Sic em cancer can kill you with a single LB2 and then play hard to get with you for days or until you make a mistake and they maul you for 19k.

But yeah let's complain about revenant's melee burst and nerf it's only meta build till this class becomes a meme like elementalist. Another class that is not allowed to have powecreep

Anet created rev without a proper balance in mind. The class synergy in traits is clunky at best and only thing a class can do really good seems to be dealing damage. Ofcourse therr are really good players like obelix that can pull an outnumbered rev but i feel he would be 10x better if he used another profession.

Only thing rev is left with is to deal dmg. And the class itself is not that stong. İt has a good burst but in my opinion that is all. The bugs, underpowered talents, and bad weapon balance are all problems. Dmg wise revs hammer is really overpowered. Stupidly strong and hard to see in a zerg fight.

And one more thing, people tend to play min max. They put everything into a single job. Try celestial rev for example. Works ok, fun to play (hard to control the ventari but that is my lack of skill) and you can combine different legends with ease.

Ps: shortbow sux.

@Virdo.1540 said:

@"ventusthunder.5067" said:Rev damage is toned way up in WvW but so are defenses, in terms of raw toughness numbers being high, better access to passive traits that have been nerfed in PvP, longer boon durations, and now the simple fact that you can run with your mount. So if you're going to run full glass expect to get hit like full glass.

In addition, rev damage is far from the most ridiculous damage in WvW. Soulbeast can one-pump you from 1800 range regardless of your toughness. If you're glassier, rifle warrior can hit you for 3/4 of your health when you're least expecting it- deadeye can do the same from range. Arc divider can one-pump most classes without passives even after the nerfs. Fresh air ele can one-combo. Eat a reaper shroud 4 and you're dead. Power mes can still one-shot burst easily if you're caught unaware.

In PvP toughness is nearly useless on most classes, before I stopped regularly playing PvP I didn't even notice that great of a difference between demo and mara amulets. I actually have found it easier to kill targets in PvP despite the far lower numbers on all skills ranging from sword 2, sword autos, staff 5, long cd on warding rift, trash incensed response, trash roiling mists, trash shared empowerment.

The culprit is then obviously not precision strike. It's off hand sword. This trash designed weapon is the same damage-wise in WvW and PvP and is the only thing keeping rev in the PvP meta. I've been saying it a lot, nerf off hand sword and buff axe and shield. Maybe nerfing this will allow the ridiculous pressure to go away, and maybe buffing other weapons will allow rev to have some utility rather than being a one-shot bot.

I'm a herald main and I'm specifically not saying it's ridiculous, I'm mentioning other sources of far more damage in WvW just like you did. I am also stating that rev's high burst and the reason it is extremely strong in pvp is because of offhand sword, not precision strike (which this thread is about).

It is impossible to argue that rev's damage is not very high in wvw, because it is quite high. But as I said, and as you actually corroborated my point, the damage of other classes is also much higher.

@"ventusthunder.5067" said:

@Virdo.1540 said:

@"ventusthunder.5067" said:Rev damage is toned way up in WvW but so are defenses, in terms of raw toughness numbers being high, better access to passive traits that have been nerfed in PvP, longer boon durations, and now the simple fact that you can run with your mount. So if you're going to run full glass expect to get hit like full glass.

In addition, rev damage is far from the most ridiculous damage in WvW. Soulbeast can one-pump you from 1800 range regardless of your toughness. If you're glassier, rifle warrior can hit you for 3/4 of your health when you're least expecting it- deadeye can do the same from range. Arc divider can one-pump most classes without passives even after the nerfs. Fresh air ele can one-combo. Eat a reaper shroud 4 and you're dead. Power mes can still one-shot burst easily if you're caught unaware.

In PvP toughness is nearly useless on most classes, before I stopped regularly playing PvP I didn't even notice that great of a difference between demo and mara amulets. I actually have found it easier to kill targets in PvP despite the far lower numbers on all skills ranging from sword 2, sword autos, staff 5, long cd on warding rift, trash incensed response, trash roiling mists, trash shared empowerment.

The culprit is then obviously not precision strike. It's off hand sword. This trash designed weapon is the same damage-wise in WvW and PvP and is the only thing keeping rev in the PvP meta. I've been saying it a lot, nerf off hand sword and buff axe and shield. Maybe nerfing this will allow the ridiculous pressure to go away, and maybe buffing other weapons will allow rev to have some utility rather than being a one-shot bot.

Precision strike in wvw hits about as hard as the offhand sword skills with a much shorter cd, lower energy cost, much shorter cast time than sword 4, and arguably easier to use due to not needing to face target. I think it is silly to say sword offhand skills are more busted in wvw than precision strike. Of course I don't think any of it is busted compared to numerous other roaming builds that are much stronger than their pvp counterparts or are simply more suited for a wvw small-scale.

@ArthurDent.9538 said:

@"ventusthunder.5067" said:

@Virdo.1540 said:

@"ventusthunder.5067" said:Rev damage is toned way up in WvW but so are defenses, in terms of raw toughness numbers being high, better access to passive traits that have been nerfed in PvP, longer boon durations, and now the simple fact that you can run with your mount. So if you're going to run full glass expect to get hit like full glass.

In addition, rev damage is far from the most ridiculous damage in WvW. Soulbeast can one-pump you from 1800 range regardless of your toughness. If you're glassier, rifle warrior can hit you for 3/4 of your health when you're least expecting it- deadeye can do the same from range. Arc divider can one-pump most classes without passives even after the nerfs. Fresh air ele can one-combo. Eat a reaper shroud 4 and you're dead. Power mes can still one-shot burst easily if you're caught unaware.

In PvP toughness is nearly useless on most classes, before I stopped regularly playing PvP I didn't even notice that great of a difference between demo and mara amulets. I actually have found it easier to kill targets in PvP despite the far lower numbers on all skills ranging from sword 2, sword autos, staff 5, long cd on warding rift, trash incensed response, trash roiling mists, trash shared empowerment.

The culprit is then obviously not precision strike. It's off hand sword. This trash designed weapon is the same damage-wise in WvW and PvP and is the only thing keeping rev in the PvP meta. I've been saying it a lot, nerf off hand sword and buff axe and shield. Maybe nerfing this will allow the ridiculous pressure to go away, and maybe buffing other weapons will allow rev to have some utility rather than being a one-shot bot.

Sword 4 has been appropriately nerfed already. My issue is that 12k deathstrikes are not healthy for the game, let's not kid ourselves. Shackle is fine in wvw, but deathstrike is the problem since it casts so fast especially with quickness- not to mention that you can hit it from slightly outside the 600 range threshold.

@Vasdamas Anklast.1607 said:These threads are kitten cringe. Why don't you also complain that infuse the light is too long (3 seconds comparing to 4s of same kitten we copypasted from warriors) or it's hard to hear or notice huh

Roflcopter combo starts with shadostep which has animation, pretty long one, even for pre-competitive lvls and easily dodged. I know 48 years old roamer that can dodge and predict this easily in small scale, why can't you idc. It's not like full zerk lvl can do the same sort of ridiculous kitten CORE MESMER can pull on you. Like oneshotting your bunker friend, stomping him (while also CCing you lel) and then running away if there is a need for that all.Sic em cancer can kill you with a single LB2 and then play hard to get with you for days or until you make a mistake and they maul you for 19k.

But yeah let's complain about revenant's melee burst and nerf it's only meta build till this class becomes a meme like elementalist. Another class that is not allowed to have powecreep

Thank god we have another voice of reason on these forums... Sometimes I feel like I'm taking crazy pills reading some of this stuff.

@narcx.3570 said:

@"Vasdamas Anklast.1607" said:These threads are kitten cringe. Why don't you also complain that infuse the light is too long (3 seconds comparing to 4s of same kitten we copypasted from warriors) or it's hard to hear or notice huh

Roflcopter combo starts with shadostep which has animation, pretty long one, even for pre-competitive lvls and easily dodged. I know 48 years old roamer that can dodge and predict this easily in small scale, why can't you idc. It's not like full zerk lvl can do the same sort of ridiculous kitten CORE MESMER can pull on you. Like oneshotting your bunker friend, stomping him (while also CCing you lel) and then running away if there is a need for that all.Sic em cancer can kill you with a single LB2 and then play hard to get with you for days or until you make a mistake and they maul you for 19k.

But yeah let's complain about revenant's melee burst and nerf it's only meta build till this class becomes a meme like elementalist. Another class that is not allowed to have powecreep

Reality of this game's balance as is. Bullshit pussy oneshot classes with abundance of access to cheesy shadowsteps, stealth or invulnerability which they can use WHILE USING OFFENSIVE SKILLS are OK because majority loves the professions they played since 2012. But then we got revenant, a wannabe warrior-thief with no access to stealth, passive stability and only invulnerability skill is HERALD ONLY and it lasts 3 seconds. Also, eeeeey you downed those 3 guys on your own? Good like stomping them because your class got no safe stomps.

It's not like ArenaNet is intending to play their game soon too. A couple days ago I caught a reaper entering stealth alone which I know is not possible anymore (no traps and iniltration runes got changed) recorded it and they told me it's Spectral Walk aaaaay lmao Whole fight took place on some cliff with size of your typical spvp node. So no, abandon all reason

@"ventusthunder.5067" said:

@ArthurDent.9538 said:

@"ventusthunder.5067" said:

@Virdo.1540 said:

@"ventusthunder.5067" said:Rev damage is toned way up in WvW but so are defenses, in terms of raw toughness numbers being high, better access to passive traits that have been nerfed in PvP, longer boon durations, and now the simple fact that you can run with your mount. So if you're going to run full glass expect to get hit like full glass.

In addition, rev damage is far from the most ridiculous damage in WvW. Soulbeast can one-pump you from 1800 range regardless of your toughness. If you're glassier, rifle warrior can hit you for 3/4 of your health when you're least expecting it- deadeye can do the same from range. Arc divider can one-pump most classes without passives even after the nerfs. Fresh air ele can one-combo. Eat a reaper shroud 4 and you're dead. Power mes can still one-shot burst easily if you're caught unaware.

In PvP toughness is nearly useless on most classes, before I stopped regularly playing PvP I didn't even notice that great of a difference between demo and mara amulets. I actually have found it easier to kill targets in PvP despite the far lower numbers on all skills ranging from sword 2, sword autos, staff 5, long cd on warding rift, trash incensed response, trash roiling mists, trash shared empowerment.

The culprit is then obviously not precision strike. It's off hand sword. This trash designed weapon is the same damage-wise in WvW and PvP and is the only thing keeping rev in the PvP meta. I've been saying it a lot, nerf off hand sword and buff axe and shield. Maybe nerfing this will allow the ridiculous pressure to go away, and maybe buffing other weapons will allow rev to have some utility rather than being a one-shot bot.

It’s a 600 range teleport not a 600 range skill.....the range of the skill itself is obviously melee which means it obviously hits outside of the 600 range.... ??? like come on...

Also if you’re getting hit by deathstrike, even with quickness (which btw usually makes the animation chain even more obvious since most revs get their quickness from PT) you’re not paying enough attention. That’s a l2p issue not a “deathstrike is too powerful” issue. Same thing with getting hit by thief backstab.