Damage is just way too high — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Damage is just way too high

Edge.8724Edge.8724 Member ✭✭✭

I just played a few PvP matches after a long time in PvE and I'm not sure what to think. Once we are in a fight, it ends in like what, 1 or 2 seconds? Simply put, everyone deals too much damage.

There is no place to react, it's just a race of who will burst who the fastest way possible.

Now I know there are some "bunker" builds too but these are the other extreme and isn't healthy neither. (I rarely see those though...)

Why not beeing in the middle? I mean some reasonable fight duration. I can't see how this can be fun to always be "insta killed" without having any time to react.

<1

Comments

  • Azure The Heartless.3261Azure The Heartless.3261 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 23, 2019

    Be careful with that. specify exactly who is too high or else we will very quickly return to bunker meta.

    Please specify classes that are overperforming and why, so that we dont get blanket reductions and return to what killed GW2 esports. pvp that time when people were interested.

    "The middle" is ideal, yes, but damage output can scale based on how telegraphed/risky it is to deliver.

    [Charr Noises]
    [Plays every class]
    [JUST GIT EVEN GUDDER ITS FINE]

  • Edge.8724Edge.8724 Member ✭✭✭

    @Safandula.8723 said:
    Just dodge

    Sure... I never though about that. How about posting something constructive and useful next time?
    A post like this is extremely useless and unneeded.

  • Edge.8724Edge.8724 Member ✭✭✭

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:
    Be careful with that. specify exactly who is too high or else we will very quickly return to bunker meta.

    Please specify classes that are overperforming and why, so that we dont get blanket reductions and return to what killed GW2 esports. pvp that time when people were interested.

    "The middle" is ideal, yes, but damage output can scale based on how telegraphed/risky it is to deliver.

    I really don't support the bunker meta and honestly hope they won't do that mistake.

    Honestly, I can't think of any class that aren't overperforming right now, except maybe elementalist and guardian. In general, everyone can build to insta kill anyone without any real risk to be punished. More precisely, the "time to kill" is too short. At this point, even some professions can be quite tanky and do some ridiculous amount of damage.

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 23, 2019

    @Safandula.8723 said:
    I'm first with the following!
    Just dodge

    It's a shame that toxic behaviors like this goes unpunished

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 23, 2019

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:
    I'm first with the following!
    Just dodge

    It's a shame that toxicity like this goes unpunished

    It's shame that non of u didn't spot irony in my post.
    "just dodge" is already a meme, and this topic was touched shiton of times. It's obvious that dmg in the game is way to high, and it's not gonna be changed i guess. The magic of pve based game

    Well the meme is discouraging, shaming, hostile, insulting=Toxic to the well being of all players and viewers alike who read the thread.

    ( You do not really have to post what others posts just because Toxicity is given full green light to run rampant in the game)

    You are better than that Safandula :)

  • Edge.8724Edge.8724 Member ✭✭✭

    I have some trouble discerning serious from sarcasms sometimes. Weakness spotted, I know.

    I'm usually very direct and straightforward toward people, so I tend to make that mistake quite often.

  • @Safandula.8723 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:
    I'm first with the following!
    Just dodge

    It's a shame that toxicity like this goes unpunished

    It's shame that non of u didn't spot irony in my post.
    "just dodge" is already a meme, and this topic was touched shiton of times. It's obvious that dmg in the game is way to high, and it's not gonna be changed i guess. The magic of pve based game

    I heard your sarcasm, but since tone is difficult to convey in text, a lot of people put "/s" after a sarcastic comment. You might also like to read about "Poe's Law". :)

  • Edge.8724Edge.8724 Member ✭✭✭

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Edge.8724 said:
    I just played a few PvP matches after a long time in PvE and I'm not sure what to think.

    I spot the problem.

    You are coming into a much more challenging game mode from a very easy mode and expect in a few matches to be killing everyone. The fact you are dying in "1 or 2 seconds" is exaggeration or you are standing still and face tanking.

    First, builds have a lot to do with PvP, not only do you need to have a good one, but you also need to know how it works and how to use it, and to be good you need to know other classes and their builds and uses, you need to know timing, animations, counter, rotations, map knowledge, porting areas, LOS, etc etc. You can't be critical of people poking at your post as you come in with maybe an hour of PvP play with generic and vague ideas, you don't even point to a class or skill you think is overtuned. When asked you just said "everything", which is not the right or even a good answer.

    Find someone who does PvP to help you, fight some rounds with you and give you pointers. What class and build are you playing? Do you have videos or screens of any of this?

    There are a few builds that are overtuned for sure, but sweeping statements don't help. Be specific about the class, skills and traits you think need working.

    I passed the last 3 years almost exclusively in PvP. My time in PvE was a sort of break (but at the same time I needed to catch what I missed.)

    Long time, more precisely around 5 months maybe... Things are just really worse than before and this was a big part of why I sort of left PvP before.

    Thanks for your advices, though I honestly didn't learn anything :/

    I won't dismiss the fact that I don't really have any PvP friends or guilds.

    I refuse to believe that the problem is only on my side though... I just have to go back into time and It was a lot more manageable, if not easier. Even when I had less experience.

  • Mbelch.9028Mbelch.9028 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Edge.8724 said:
    I just played a few PvP matches after a long time in PvE and I'm not sure what to think.

    I spot the problem.

    You are coming into a much more challenging game mode from a very easy mode and expect in a few matches to be killing everyone. The fact you are dying in "1 or 2 seconds" is exaggeration or you are standing still and face tanking.

    First, builds have a lot to do with PvP, not only do you need to have a good one, but you also need to know how it works and how to use it, and to be good you need to know other classes and their builds and uses, you need to know timing, animations, counter, rotations, map knowledge, porting areas, LOS, etc etc. You can't be critical of people poking at your post as you come in with maybe an hour of PvP play with generic and vague ideas, you don't even point to a class or skill you think is overtuned. When asked you just said "everything", which is not the right or even a good answer.

    Find someone who does PvP to help you, fight some rounds with you and give you pointers. What class and build are you playing? Do you have videos or screens of any of this?

    There are a few builds that are overtuned for sure, but sweeping statements don't help. Be specific about the class, skills and traits you think need working.

    ^ Constructive and accurate. PvE is ezpz compared to circlequest.

  • saerni.2584saerni.2584 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Edge.8724

    PvP wise the best advice I can give is:

    Build yourself for a role. Conquest is very role dependent and many people aren’t built properly for a role or understand that role when they start out.

    Fights are over in seconds when people don’t play around their role or are new enough that their ability to play as say, a bunker, isn’t good enough to perform that role.

    • Example 1: A bruiser runs onto mid with no support.
    • Example 2: A bunker who dies easily to a plus 1.
    • Example 3: A side noder who stays in team fights the whole game.
    • Example 4: A bruiser attempts to decap far and dies without decapping.

    There are oneshot builds out there. There are some overperforming builds that are a bit too survivable for the damage that they deal. However most people are not running pure glass.

    When you see pure glass your team needs to focus that person first. When they respawn you need to watch out so they don’t gank someone. Glass can swing team fights in either direction.

    I realize this isn’t super helpful because you are just one player. If you want advice about a specific profession and how to pvp as or against it the profession forums may be more helpful.

    I agree with you that damage is too high. But I would specify certain skill/trait combinations. I don’t play a oneshot build and I’m fairly squishy. I wouldn’t want some general damage reduction to make me unable to secure kills while the former high damage builds chunk everyone’s health bar for “only” 10k instead of 20k in a half second.

    Northern Shiverpeaks (NSP)
    Deadeye (Thief)
    Commandant of P/D and Apex Predator

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    if you don't have stab, prot, weakness, decent sustain, stun breakers, mobility, and low cd damage skills you are not meta.

    you don't know till you know, ya know.

  • TinkTinkPOOF.9201TinkTinkPOOF.9201 Member ✭✭✭

    @Edge.8724 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Edge.8724 said:
    I just played a few PvP matches after a long time in PvE and I'm not sure what to think.

    I spot the problem.

    You are coming into a much more challenging game mode from a very easy mode and expect in a few matches to be killing everyone. The fact you are dying in "1 or 2 seconds" is exaggeration or you are standing still and face tanking.

    First, builds have a lot to do with PvP, not only do you need to have a good one, but you also need to know how it works and how to use it, and to be good you need to know other classes and their builds and uses, you need to know timing, animations, counter, rotations, map knowledge, porting areas, LOS, etc etc. You can't be critical of people poking at your post as you come in with maybe an hour of PvP play with generic and vague ideas, you don't even point to a class or skill you think is overtuned. When asked you just said "everything", which is not the right or even a good answer.

    Find someone who does PvP to help you, fight some rounds with you and give you pointers. What class and build are you playing? Do you have videos or screens of any of this?

    There are a few builds that are overtuned for sure, but sweeping statements don't help. Be specific about the class, skills and traits you think need working.

    I passed the last 3 years almost exclusively in PvP. My time in PvE was a sort of break (but at the same time I needed to catch what I missed.)

    Long time, more precisely around 5 months maybe... Things are just really worse than before and this was a big part of why I sort of left PvP before.

    Thanks for your advices, though I honestly didn't learn anything :/

    I won't dismiss the fact that I don't really have any PvP friends or guilds.

    I refuse to believe that the problem is only on my side though... I just have to go back into time and It was a lot more manageable, if not easier. Even when I had less experience.

    If you have done lots of PvP before then you know that not everything is OP. Also, to get anything fixed, you need to give specific data sets, also if you spent much time in PvP you also know that can come down to a single trait that just has to much synergy with everything else for it's investment. If you feel everything is OP, list them out, what class, the build and traits that are overtuned, only then can we have a discussion, as we need to know what we are taking about first.

    This is a problem anet has done in the past, people complain about given builds/classes without a solid understanding of what causes it, and rather than fixing or changing that one trait, they nerf all sorts of things that sure, often times fixes the overtuned build, but then destroys just about any other build options for the class as the nerfs affected far more than that single build.

    "When you power creep the game and make it so that spam gameplay is nearly as effective as deep knowledge and nuance, the quality of players will decrease." -Exedore

  • Snellibee.2761Snellibee.2761 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 23, 2019

    If you die in mere seconds it's because you just don't know how to play and stay alive, idk what else to tell you. Whilst damage is really high that's true, sustain is just as high.

    Sometimes I get annoyed that a FA ele one shots me from nowhere, but I know that's because I lacked awareness at that time because they don't have much defense so they're not hard to kill.

    Just saying that in no way you should die in a couple seconds unless it is your own fault.

  • iKeostuKen.2738iKeostuKen.2738 Member ✭✭✭

    Yeah. I remember this issue when I came back around HoT after the celestial amulet removal to everything just being out of control.

    Atleast back then there was counter play and a choice of either doing damage and dieing or doing no damage and dieing very slowly. This burst emta has really killed the pvp community, no one wants a bunker meta but that was literally when the game was at its pvp peak.

    I really would like to go back to those times, bunker meta was healthy, the balancing on it wasnt. Instead of buffing damage accross the board it should have never happened at all. Now we have the issue of high damage plus to much screen clutter with no real thought on if something is balanced or not. To instantly obtaining 5+ unique conditions in less then 2 seconds or being bursted down with unnecessary trait the game will never be fixed and its only worse in WvW.

    Even worse now that there was a massive layoff so the game wont be getting any better anytime soon.

  • @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:
    This is a problem anet has done in the past, people complain about given builds/classes without a solid understanding of what causes it, and rather than fixing or changing that one trait, they nerf all sorts of things that sure, often times fixes the overtuned build, but then destroys just about any other build options for the class as the nerfs affected far more than that single build.

    You're talking about condi-Mirage, right? Because this fits what happened there to a tee. :wink:

  • @Snellibee.2761 said:
    If you die in mere seconds it's because you just don't know how to play and stay alive, idk what else to tell you. Whilst damage is really high that's true, sustain is just as high.

    Sometimes I get annoyed that a FA ele one shots me from nowhere, but I know that's because I lacked awareness at that time because they don't have much defense so they're not hard to kill.

    Just saying that in no way you should die in a couple seconds unless it is your own fault.

    Sorry, but unless I'm missing something, I sense a bit of contradiction here (italicized bolds). On one hand you're telling OP he has no excuse to die in seconds because "sustain is just as high" as damage. But then you immediately use an example about a squishy build that's "not hard to kill." How do you know OP isn't playing one of those "not hard to kill" builds?

    We have pretty much one build that's a viable bunker, and we have a number of builds with one-shot potential. Everything else falls in between and does get one-shot from time to time, and also can't kill the bunker.

  • Snellibee.2761Snellibee.2761 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 23, 2019

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

    @Snellibee.2761 said:
    If you die in mere seconds it's because you just don't know how to play and stay alive, idk what else to tell you. Whilst damage is really high that's true, sustain is just as high.

    Sometimes I get annoyed that a FA ele one shots me from nowhere, but I know that's because I lacked awareness at that time because they don't have much defense so they're not hard to kill.

    Just saying that in no way you should die in a couple seconds unless it is your own fault.

    Sorry, but unless I'm missing something, I sense a bit of contradiction here (italicized bolds). On one hand you're telling OP he has no excuse to die in seconds because "sustain is just as high" as damage. But then you immediately use an example about a squishy build that's "not hard to kill." How do you know OP isn't playing one of those "not hard to kill" builds?

    We have pretty much one build that's a viable bunker, and we have a number of builds with one-shot potential. Everything else falls in between and does get one-shot from time to time, and also can't kill the bunker.

    What I'm getting at is that unless you play a glass cannon and you're meant to die quickly, theres no reason to go down in seconds unless it's your own fault. i don't think it's that hard to understand.

    Even FA ele doesn't die instantly by the way, they still have plenty of skills to stay alive.

    it's just funny to me that when people build and trait for maximum dps output other people cry that they're doing too much damage. It's like even though they're fully traited and sacrifice all defensive traits and amulets etc, that they should do mediocre damage. I think a lot of people do not know what a game based on builds is supposed to function like. Builds require sacrifice to be good in one thing, if the enemy you're facing is doing high damage to you, you should know that he won't be able to handle pressure himself.

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:
    Be careful with that. specify exactly who is too high or else we will very quickly return to bunker meta.

    Please specify classes that are overperforming and why, so that we dont get blanket reductions and return to what killed GW2 esports. pvp that time when people were interested.

    "The middle" is ideal, yes, but damage output can scale based on how telegraphed/risky it is to deliver.

    Like how Firegrab was designed... slow and hard hitting but now its just slow.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    06210311 251521 121512

  • Aza.2105Aza.2105 Member ✭✭✭

    I spend most of my time build crafting. My observation is that we either have very high damage or very high sustain. The is never any middle ground. Guild wars 2 could use a minimum and maximum for damage and healing. Just like gw1. Right now gw2 just continues to scale infinitely. Its why damage and sustain is so high. In addition to that gw2 suffers from over tuned skills.

  • Yannir.4132Yannir.4132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    If you mean collateral psychological damage from toxicness, I'd say you're correct.

  • Darth.7623Darth.7623 Member ✭✭

    Too much passive aoe and condi builds non existent minus brainless scourge. Power attacks are dealing 3x more damage INSTANTLY when compared to a condi attack doing it's damage over it's entire duration, which just gets removed passively anyway.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 24, 2019

    Game needs more iteration from Anet devs, still don’t forget high damage output will help players stay due the high numbers placebo on screen.

    A lot of mechanics in this game feel it’s from a beta state game.
    Pvp also needs more map types than node control.

    6 years of that... gets old way to fast it doesn’t help.

  • Khalisto.5780Khalisto.5780 Member ✭✭✭

    @Aeolus.3615 said:

    Pvp also needs more map types than node control.

    6 years of that... gets old way to fast it doesn’t help.

    oh well, they failed miserably with the mobalike mechanics.

    I think node control is fine, but all of em being a v5. -.-

    But I kinda see the reason they keep it this way.

    Having a v1 match will make one stronger duelist rise as the complaint s about on forums

    Having v2s, we already seeing the nerf fb/scourge now, imagine with a v2 arena.

    Lets say a v8, dmg balance here would definitely be a problem.

    they're already having issues balancing a 7 years old mode, imagine adding new ones.

  • Falan.1839Falan.1839 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 24, 2019

    It's easy to say that damage is too high across the board, and indeed the meta is very bursty, but if damage is really nerfed across the board, then a lot of either things would have to be reduced aswell. Not just bunkerishness of Scrapper, sustain and support on FB, but also res cheese like Blood Nec, Scrapper Gyro or Signet of Mercy. The mobility creep is also real, barely any teamfight is done without port engages.

    It's always easy to say nerf "X, Y and Z" but the overall picture is a lot more complicated, because you will automatically promote hitherto second tier builds to a new overperforming top tier if you seriously gut all meta builds. It's not that hard to imagine to have builds like Reaper or Power Chrono (both very high dps build) dominating when you completely gut Rev, Holo, FB, Scourge and Soulbeast for example.

    Falásya / Caissech

    "When you say it's gonna happen "now"
    When exactly do you mean?
    See I've already waited too long
    And all my hope is gone"
    The Smiths about Balance and PvP changes

  • bladezero.9470bladezero.9470 Member ✭✭✭

    Damage is fine. L2P and queue with support.

  • ArthurDent.9538ArthurDent.9538 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:
    Be careful with that. specify exactly who is too high or else we will very quickly return to bunker meta.

    Please specify classes that are overperforming and why, so that we dont get blanket reductions and return to what killed GW2 esports. pvp that time when people were interested.

    "The middle" is ideal, yes, but damage output can scale based on how telegraphed/risky it is to deliver.

    Like how Firegrab was designed... slow and hard hitting but now its just slow.

    It's got a 2.8 power modifier against burning foes which is very strong for a 3/4 second cast. Even 1.75 to non burning is the same as ranger maul (no sic 'em though). Then there is quantum strike with an absurd 3.9 modifier on a 3/4 sec cast and no prerequisite for the damage, this would be heavily nerfed on any other class. The thing is though, ele baseline defenses are just way too garbage so they all run around with an extremely defensive trait setups and a healing amulet thinking their damage is tash when it would be top tier if they wouldn't get smooshed so easily when they actually build for DPS. The low hp classes need base hp brought up to 14k as 11k is way too susceptible to spike, ele needs larger base heals with lower scaling to be able to move away from healing power amulets viably. Then reducing Weaver attunement cd by 1 sec would allow faster transitions between offense and defense.

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ArthurDent.9538 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:
    Be careful with that. specify exactly who is too high or else we will very quickly return to bunker meta.

    Please specify classes that are overperforming and why, so that we dont get blanket reductions and return to what killed GW2 esports. pvp that time when people were interested.

    "The middle" is ideal, yes, but damage output can scale based on how telegraphed/risky it is to deliver.

    Like how Firegrab was designed... slow and hard hitting but now its just slow.

    It's got a 2.8 power modifier against burning foes which is very strong for a 3/4 second cast. Even 1.75 to non burning is the same as ranger maul (no sic 'em though). Then there is quantum strike with an absurd 3.9 modifier on a 3/4 sec cast and no prerequisite for the damage, this would be heavily nerfed on any other class. The thing is though, ele baseline defenses are just way too garbage so they all run around with an extremely defensive trait setups and a healing amulet thinking their damage is tash when it would be top tier if they wouldn't get smooshed so easily when they actually build for DPS. The low hp classes need base hp brought up to 14k as 11k is way too susceptible to spike, ele needs larger base heals with lower scaling to be able to move away from healing power amulets viably. Then reducing Weaver attunement cd by 1 sec would allow faster transitions between offense and defense.

    Im a Tempest main and I agree with your concept but can't I have a bit of fun and poke at my class?

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    06210311 251521 121512

  • @sephiroth.4217 said:
    Im a Tempest main and I agree with your concept but can't I have a bit of fun and poke at my class?

    What is this HERESY-
    No fun is allowed here.

    [Charr Noises]
    [Plays every class]
    [JUST GIT EVEN GUDDER ITS FINE]

  • luzonophir.7134luzonophir.7134 Member ✭✭
    edited May 24, 2019

    too kitten high, without even smoking weed.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    if you don't have stab, prot, weakness, decent sustain, stun breakers, mobility, and low cd damage skills you are not meta.

    Lol. But true 🙁

  • @Falan.1839 said:
    It's easy to say that damage is too high across the board, and indeed the meta is very bursty, but if damage is really nerfed across the board, then a lot of either things would have to be reduced aswell. Not just bunkerishness of Scrapper, sustain and support on FB, but also res cheese like Blood Nec, Scrapper Gyro or Signet of Mercy. The mobility creep is also real, barely any teamfight is done without port engages.

    It's always easy to say nerf "X, Y and Z" but the overall picture is a lot more complicated, because you will automatically promote hitherto second tier builds to a new overperforming top tier if you seriously gut all meta builds. It's not that hard to imagine to have builds like Reaper or Power Chrono (both very high dps build) dominating when you completely gut Rev, Holo, FB, Scourge and Soulbeast for example.

    Don't "gut all meta builds." Reign them in so that they're on par with the "second tier". Similarly, pull under performers up.

    In a perfect world, there would be only one tier and everything would be unique but equally viable. Of course, we don't live in a perfect world, and never will, but that's still the place to strive for.

  • Ashimmu.4219Ashimmu.4219 Member ✭✭

    Needless to say that one-shooting is not as fun as "3-5-shooting" - if to compare with EVE online - its frigate PVP vs battleship PVP.
    The more HP buffer players have the more interesting the engagements - simply because its more 'space' to build longer action sequences and roll back if a tactical mistake was made.
    Yes, instant deaths can be outplayed by player's awareness in most cases but overall feel of squishiness is omnipresent (unless one use dedicated tank buld).
    So, +1 to do something with damage/HP pool or smth.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Truth be told, the damage is as high as the damage mitigation is.

    Reality is that when a glass canon encounter a bunker he come here to complain about the bunker being to resilient (scisor complaining about rock), when a support or another glass canon encounter a glass canon they come here to say that damage is to high (Paper and scisor complaining about scisor).

    Players want builds that excel at everything and ultimately ANet ended up giving so many boons and "soft" conditions (debuff) for free that it is what we have right now. If there is a problem it's just that, not the damages in themself. Scisor have the right to exist, just like rock and paper, there is no point in asking ANet to send both scisor and rock in the well in order for paper to only have to cover the well and be the last one standing.

  • Faux Play.6104Faux Play.6104 Member ✭✭✭

    @Edge.8724 said:
    I just played a few PvP matches after a long time in PvE and I'm not sure what to think. Once we are in a fight, it ends in like what, 1 or 2 seconds? Simply put, everyone deals too much damage.

    There is no place to react, it's just a race of who will burst who the fastest way possible.

    Now I know there are some "bunker" builds too but these are the other extreme and isn't healthy neither. (I rarely see those though...)

    Why not beeing in the middle? I mean some reasonable fight duration. I can't see how this can be fun to always be "insta killed" without having any time to react.

    If damage wasn't high, then people would never die. It would be the bunker meta where you win a match at time limit 30-27

  • Faux Play.6104Faux Play.6104 Member ✭✭✭

    @Rehk.6574 said:
    I tend to agree with the OP.
    TTK just always felt a little too fast in this game's PvP for me. I think that mainly comes from the fact that some burst combos just do what feels like an extraordinary amount of damage for the HP pools we have. I've often thought that increasing HP, decreasing damage, or some combination of both so that the fastest TTK on a Glass Cannon vs another Glass cannon should at least allow for enough reaction time to pop a ccbreak and use a heal skill and potentially drag it out to another rotation instead of just going poof would help tremendously.

    so you think someone should be able to run a glass build, and be able to face tank multiple 3-5 second bursts from another glass class?

  • Aza.2105Aza.2105 Member ✭✭✭

    @Rehk.6574 said:
    I tend to agree with the OP.
    TTK just always felt a little too fast in this game's PvP for me. I think that mainly comes from the fact that some burst combos just do what feels like an extraordinary amount of damage for the HP pools we have. I've often thought that increasing HP, decreasing damage, or some combination of both so that the fastest TTK on a Glass Cannon vs another Glass cannon should at least allow for enough reaction time to pop a ccbreak and use a heal skill and potentially drag it out to another rotation instead of just going poof would help tremendously.

    Damage is tuned for raid bosses who have hp beyond what a player has. Anet for whatever reason has kept damage roughly the same for pvp.

  • JTGuevara.9018JTGuevara.9018 Member ✭✭✭

    @Rehk.6574 said:

    @Faux Play.6104 said:

    @Rehk.6574 said:
    I tend to agree with the OP.
    TTK just always felt a little too fast in this game's PvP for me. I think that mainly comes from the fact that some burst combos just do what feels like an extraordinary amount of damage for the HP pools we have. I've often thought that increasing HP, decreasing damage, or some combination of both so that the fastest TTK on a Glass Cannon vs another Glass cannon should at least allow for enough reaction time to pop a ccbreak and use a heal skill and potentially drag it out to another rotation instead of just going poof would help tremendously.

    so you think someone should be able to run a glass build, and be able to face tank multiple 3-5 second bursts from another glass class?

    Not exactly. I wish one glass build would be able to kill another in 3-5 seconds if they don't react, and at minimum 6-10 if they do react at least reasonably effectively. I'd prefer any 1v1 matchup to be a little more of a thinking man's game where you outsmart and outplay the enemy to win, not just land a lucky burst and it's simply over before it (any type of player against player competition) begins. I just don't find any fight in which the enemy (or I) is over without so much as any time to react....fun.

    Of course my opinion on what's "best" has been shaped by games that don't really share a similar combat system, but all I can say is that my best PvP experiences were from games with a slower pace (DAoC, WAR, certain periods of WoW, Wildstar, certain periods of ESO, FF, etc).

    Yeah, it's gotten way too fast-paced. I like the thinking man's game approach. Although I'll increase your baseline glass cannon burst to 5 seconds!

  • ArthurDent.9538ArthurDent.9538 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @JTGuevara.9018 said:

    @Rehk.6574 said:

    @Faux Play.6104 said:

    @Rehk.6574 said:
    I tend to agree with the OP.
    TTK just always felt a little too fast in this game's PvP for me. I think that mainly comes from the fact that some burst combos just do what feels like an extraordinary amount of damage for the HP pools we have. I've often thought that increasing HP, decreasing damage, or some combination of both so that the fastest TTK on a Glass Cannon vs another Glass cannon should at least allow for enough reaction time to pop a ccbreak and use a heal skill and potentially drag it out to another rotation instead of just going poof would help tremendously.

    so you think someone should be able to run a glass build, and be able to face tank multiple 3-5 second bursts from another glass class?

    Not exactly. I wish one glass build would be able to kill another in 3-5 seconds if they don't react, and at minimum 6-10 if they do react at least reasonably effectively. I'd prefer any 1v1 matchup to be a little more of a thinking man's game where you outsmart and outplay the enemy to win, not just land a lucky burst and it's simply over before it (any type of player against player competition) begins. I just don't find any fight in which the enemy (or I) is over without so much as any time to react....fun.

    Of course my opinion on what's "best" has been shaped by games that don't really share a similar combat system, but all I can say is that my best PvP experiences were from games with a slower pace (DAoC, WAR, certain periods of WoW, Wildstar, certain periods of ESO, FF, etc).

    Yeah, it's gotten way too fast-paced. I like the thinking man's game approach. Although I'll increase your baseline glass cannon burst to 5 seconds!

    I don't think you realize how much every single damage skill of every single weapon (and damage dealing utilities) of every single class would have to be nerfed in order for no builds to be able to kill an afk berserker ele in less than 5 seconds.

  • Moona.6327Moona.6327 Member ✭✭

    Time to Live(TTL) was never a consideration in this game by the developers, other companies have obvious solutions. But it would require a huge amount of code and testing, something Anet is obviously not interested in doing. It seems most of their efforts are towards their cash shop and living world episodes which also boost their cash shop. I give you an example, some games have implemented pvp specific stats, ie. resilience for world of warcraft, toughness for games like Rift. Gw2 has no pvp stat to mitigate pve skill damage from players. Which is why I've stayed away from pvp, its stun->dead, all in less than two seconds. Its not fun, and quite silly actually, but it'll come down to the developers to implement specific core stats for pvp that will separate it from pve.

  • Moona.6327Moona.6327 Member ✭✭

    Anyone calling for any specific class to be nerfed to adjust TTL has never played games with core pvp stats that separate pve from pvp, if you want pvp to be adjusted for the better, then start a petition calling for core pvp stats. Obviously this will require a whole new set of armor/weapons to be implemented in the game for players to acquire, and force a ton of work onto the developers, but if this issue wont ever be addressed, then you'll know the dev's treat pvp as an after thought.

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