Kralkatorrik, The Wealdwood, and Tyria's Gold [Spoilers for War Eternal]

On the northern shores of Malchor's Leap, at the heart of the Pyrite Peninsula, we can find a golden orb of energy turning the land around it to gold. I posit that the orb is the Heart of Kralkatorrik's mother, that she was responsible for much of the gold we find around Tyria, that she influenced Orrian culture, and that her legacy lives on in her descendants.

1) The Nature of the Orb

The Pyrite Peninsula is a subregion of northern Malchor's Leap on the coast of Orr. A golden orb floats high above, gilding the land and its elementals. Nearby Inquest - a group known for their research into draconic energies at the Thaumanova Reactor, Infinity Coil Reactor, and Rata Primus - maintain a base of operations nearby, for the purposes of researching and harnessing the golden orb. During the event "Drive off the Inquest before channelers drain the orb's energy", the Inquest Overseer remarks "Look at this gilded flotsam. The corruption can't touch it.". Given that the Orrian corruption is coming from Zhaitan, this implies that the orb is draconic in nature. Dragons cannot generally interact with one another's corruption, barring recent events that postdate this event.

While the orb has yet to play a role in any primary story, it has had interactions added since launch. With Heart of Thorns came Legendary Weapon Collections, and the collections for The Bifrost, Zap, and H.O.P.E. all bring players to the Wealdwood. For Zap, this involves overcharging a Charged Quartz Crystal into Metallically Overcharged Quartz, and for H.O.P.E. this involves a Case of Corrupted Crystalline Phials. The Bifrost goes a step further and has the player provide:

• Crystal Lodestone
• Ruby Crystal
• Opal Crystal
• Beryl Crystal
• Charged Quartz Crystal
• Mystic Crystal
• Emerald Crystal
• Sapphire Crystal
• Potent Mastery Tuning Crystal

for upgrading. Evidently, the Wealdwood has an affinity for crystals. Later still, on May 12, 2016, players became able to empower a Pile of Coarse Sand at the location, and receive a Pile of Golden Sand. As of yet, this item has no purpose.

Given the orb's draconic nature, and its relationship to sand, crystals, and the local earth elementals, it seems fairly safe to guess that the Wealdwood is related to Kralkatorrik. More specifically, the Wealdwood is the Heart of the 'Mother' that Kralkatorrik thought of as he died.

2) Fool's Gold

Tyria's gold nodes are strange. They are modeled far more sharply than the other standard nodes, with only Mithril and Orichalcum (one fantasy, one historical/incorrect) coming close. It bears a much closer resemblance, then, to Tyria's more fantastical nodes than to its mundane ones. In fact, gold nodes look more like Pyrite than standard gold.

Heart of Thorns added Aurillum, and Aurillium Nodes (for the home instance) that more closely resemble the low-tier nodes and real-life manifestations of gold, than the standard gold nodes. A real-life geologist would likely identify Aurillium as gold, and would see 'gold' as pyrite, or something alien entirely.

As Kralkatorrik was active last dragonrise, it is likely that his mother died over twenty thousand years ago. Her influence and corruption has faded, leaving only the gold nodes that we mine today.

3) Where Dragons Lie

In 'Everyday Magic in Orr', found among the Orrian History Scrolls, an Ascalonian merchant from Foible's Fair wrote, "For the Orrians, magic is like any other tool, to be used at whim and with little concern.", after describing the many magical feats the Orrians employed within their everyday lives. This level of ambient magic can be attributed to Zhaitan, and the sleeping dragon almost assuredly contributed, but this level of magic is strange even for this scenario. The other dragon sites were capable of powering magical constructs, as shown by the asura using Primordus' magical radiation to power the Central Transfer Chamber, but even they were not shown to use magic so frivolously as the humans of Orr.

If Zhaitan were sleeping beneath Orr and regions of the kingdom were being bathed in residual magic from Kralkatorrik's mother, this could further explain why the people there were so magically inclined. The entire land would have been awash in enough ambient magic to empower even the lowliest spellcaster to reach great heights.

Additionally, the golden dragon's presence on Orr would explain a few things about the nation. Its name, Orr, is a homophone for Aur-, a prefix denoting gold. Orrians seem to employ 'memetic architecture': their towers are based on the rings that fell from high above (as stated in 'Strange Ring Structures'). If the land were corrupted by a golden influence, that would explain the land's golden architecture: our glimpse of Pre-Cataclysm Orr via the Displaced Towers showcases a golden version of the Vizier's Tower.

4) Legacy

This hypothetical gold dragon's influence lives on in her descendants. Her presumed gold pallet would explain Vlast, an anomalous yellow-gold amidst the blues and purples of his family. This revelation would also cast Glint's cities in a new light: Kesho and Tarir are both massive, golden, monuments, and could imply some measure of fondness on Glint's behalf for her grandmother.

Aurene is named for aurene glass, which generally comes in two varieties: blue and gold. Aur, as stated above, is a prefix denoting gold. If Aurene's great grandmother were a dragon of gold, this adds a new dimension to her name. Her hatchplace of Auric Basin also becomes quite fitting in this situation.

Closing Thoughts:

The Pile of Golden Sand was added to the game 4 months before Aurene was, during the time that Rising Flames was being worked on. This implies that the Wealdwood may have been on the developer's minds in relationship to Aurene. While the developers stated that the 'mother' line was a hook for future stories, I don't think that precludes the possibility of core assets being integrated. The story of Kralkatorrik's mother is almost entirely untouched, and explaining that an asset from the core game is related to her does not make the entirety of the story 'something from the past'.

As for community beliefs about the Wealdwood being related to the Exalted, these two things do not have to be mutually exclusive. As servants of Glint and her Legacy, the Exalted could very well be tapping into whatever modicum of her grandmother's power Glint is channeling. We see similarities in their magic as is, with both commanding some measure of power over sand.

(Many thanks to https://littleantler.tumblr.com/ for pointing out the aberrant nature of Tyria's gold, and for bouncing ideas back and forth)

In the general sense of trying to connect the Wealdwood to the Elder Dragons, I'm just going to restate what I recently posted in your other thread of near identical nature:

The Wealdwood feels heavily tied to the Forgotten and Exalted. In The Mystery Cave of Season 2, there are plants and sand which are turned gold in a similar manner to the Wealdwood, and both the Exalted and the Wealdwood are immune to dragon corruption (like other Forgotten magic). Unless they do a second case of "but they were dragon minions all along!" I doubt there will be any connection between the Wealdwood and the Elder Dragons.

Seems more likely there could be a connection between the Wealdwood and the Rite of the Great Dwarf which turned the dwarves from flesh into stone that, similarly, seems incorruptible (by Primordus).

On specific parts of your post:

@"PanBelacqua.9058" said:Nearby Inquest - a group known for their research into draconic energies at the Thaumanova Reactor, Infinity Coil Reactor, and Rata Primus - maintain a base of operations nearby, for the purposes of researching and harnessing the golden orb.

While it is true that the Inquest - particularly those under Kudu, Belka, and later Kuda - are interested in studying the Elder Dragons, it must be stressed that they look into studying everything. Literally, their goal is to fully comprehend the Eternal Alchemy aka the multiverse and everything in it.

They're not just a group researching draconic energies. They're studying everything of note.

Dragons cannot generally interact with one another's corruption, barring recent events that postdate this event.

This is an incorrect statement as the very group you literally just previously mentioned have proven. Subject Alpha and Kudu's Monster - which predate the event in Malchor's Leap - very much prove that dragons can interact with one another's corruption.

The entire basis of this false pronunciation comes from the sylvari being Elder Dragons and "immune" (in that they immediately die when exposed) to Elder Dragon corruptions. The irony is that the notion of their immunity was initially presented to be argued as evidence for the sylvari being dragon minions, despite the entire and total lack of any actual proof of it. In the end, the entire "dragon minions cannot be corrupted by other dragons" originates from literal nothingness, originally used to argue why sylvari are immune to explain their origins, then using sylvari's origins to explain their immunity!

All that said, we know it is false not just because of Subject Alpha outright blatantly proving it is false (if Season 3 events do not as well), but in Season 2 and Heart of Thorns, it is told to us repeatedly that the sylvari's immunity is not due to their nature as Elder Dragons, but instead due to their protection from the Pale Tree - protection that could only be from the Dream of Dreams.

Besides all that, the things changed by the Wealdwood do not have the same false immunity that sylvari have. When sylvari are exposed to corrupting magic, they die. No minion is born, but the sylvari does not survive. However, the Pyrite Elementals do survive. Not only that, but the corrupted landscape itself is turned to gold - the Wealdwood doesn't just create an immunity to corruption, it overrides corruption!

Thus, the Wealdwood doesn't function like sylvari immunity, but rather like the Forgotten's immunity. The Forgotten hold magic that the Elder Dragons can neither consume nor corrupt, and have developed rituals that convert things into a false gold - pyrite, to be exact. These rituals are called exalting rituals, and they're part of what made Tarir, the Gilded Hollow, and the Exalted, whom are immune to dragon corruption.

Evidently, the Wealdwood has an affinity for crystals.

I don't think that really speaks of much. It's crystals because those are minerals that aren't metals and are materials.

Given the orb's draconic nature, and its relationship to sand, crystals, and the local earth elementals, it seems fairly safe to guess that the Wealdwood is related to Kralkatorrik. More specifically, the Wealdwood is the Heart of the 'Mother' that Kralkatorrik thought of as he died.

You're making the same mistake as the over-believed mistake of "dragon minions are immune to other dragons' corruption". You proclaim the orb has a draconic nature, because of a false notion its has traits which only things in draconic nature hold (Inquest interest and dragon corruption immunity). But both traits are not draconic in any way, so the orb has no draconic nature.

Heart of Thorns added Aurillum, and Aurillium Nodes (for the home instance) that more closely resemble the low-tier nodes and real-life manifestations of gold, than the standard gold nodes. A real-life geologist would likely identify Aurillium as gold, and would see 'gold' as pyrite, or something alien entirely.

Gold Ore nodes and Aurilium nodes are literally the same model. Except that the latter has a golden dust aura to it.

Curiously, the wiki seems to use a rich node for the image of a normal gold ore node. But if you go into the home instance, it should be plain as day.

Additionally, the golden dragon's presence on Orr would explain a few things about the nation. Its name, Orr, is a homophone for Aur-, a prefix denoting gold. Orrians seem to employ 'memetic architecture': their towers are based on the rings that fell from high above (as stated in 'Strange Ring Structures'). If the land were corrupted by a golden influence, that would explain the land's golden architecture: our glimpse of Pre-Cataclysm Orr via the Displaced Towers showcases a golden version of the Vizier's Tower.

I believe Orr's etymology actually originates with Ur, an ancient Sumarian city-state of mesopotamia. It would lie in the same general area that Arabic would be spoken, and in GW1, many Orrian names held Arabic origins or sounds as if they did.

And wouldn't it be far less of a stretch to presume that the highly religious kingdom that held the city of the gods as its capital and center would naturally seek out the most resplentant of metals to fashion their structures out of? It seems logical, then, that Orr would utilize gold. Not out of any hypothetical fading corruption that would have died out by 20,000 years before the first structure was erected (let alone burned away when Balthazar covered the peninsula in flames or covered when Melandru regrew the peninsula's forestry from the ashes upon their arrivals to the world).

This hypothetical gold dragon's influence lives on in her descendants. Her presumed gold pallet would explain Vlast, an anomalous yellow-gold amidst the blues and purples of his family.

Fun fact: Vlast's model is actually green crystals. Which is the same as the original designs of Kralkatorrik, who had emerald green blood and eyes in the Edge of Destiny novel.

This revelation would also cast Glint's cities in a new light: Kesho and Tarir are both massive, golden, monuments, and could imply some measure of fondness on Glint's behalf for her grandmother.

[...]

As for community beliefs about the Wealdwood being related to the Exalted, these two things do not have to be mutually exclusive. As servants of Glint and her Legacy, the Exalted could very well be tapping into whatever modicum of her grandmother's power Glint is channeling. We see similarities in their magic as is, with both commanding some measure of power over sand.

They're gold because the Forgotten made them. They're gold because the Hall of Ascension and the Hall of Heroes are gold. Tarir and Kesho are made in their image. Like The Ascension is. The similarity is most evident in the egg chamber of Tarir.

The golden designs of the Forgotten are allusions, references, callbacks, and/or extensions of the Hall of Ascension which, in turn, is such towards the Hall of Heroes itself. Which holds its origins in only the Six Gods and their servants (the Forgotten), and not the Tyrian-bound (until events of PoF) Elder Dragons or their scions.

So yes, it is mutually exclusive for something to be either connected to the Elder Dragons or connected to the Forgotten/Six Gods. For one is Tyrian, and the other not.

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:In the general sense of trying to connect the Wealdwood to the Elder Dragons, I'm just going to restate what I recently posted in your other thread of near identical nature:

The Wealdwood feels heavily tied to the Forgotten and Exalted. In The Mystery Cave of Season 2, there are plants and sand which are turned gold in a similar manner to the Wealdwood, and both the Exalted and the Wealdwood are immune to dragon corruption (like other Forgotten magic). Unless they do a second case of "but they were dragon minions all along!" I doubt there will be any connection between the Wealdwood and the Elder Dragons.

Seems more likely there could be a connection between the Wealdwood and the Rite of the Great Dwarf which turned the dwarves from flesh into stone that, similarly, seems incorruptible (by Primordus).

On specific parts of your post:

@"PanBelacqua.9058" said:Nearby Inquest - a group known for their research into draconic energies at the Thaumanova Reactor, Infinity Coil Reactor, and Rata Primus - maintain a base of operations nearby, for the purposes of researching and harnessing the golden orb.

Dragons cannot generally interact with one another's corruption, barring recent events that postdate this event.

Evidently, the Wealdwood has an affinity for crystals.

Given the orb's draconic nature, and its relationship to sand, crystals, and the local earth elementals, it seems fairly safe to guess that the Wealdwood is related to Kralkatorrik. More specifically, the Wealdwood is the Heart of the 'Mother' that Kralkatorrik thought of as he died.

Heart of Thorns added Aurillum, and Aurillium Nodes (for the home instance) that more closely resemble the low-tier nodes and real-life manifestations of gold, than the standard gold nodes. A real-life geologist would likely identify Aurillium as gold, and would see 'gold' as pyrite, or something alien entirely.

Additionally, the golden dragon's presence on Orr would explain a few things about the nation. Its name, Orr, is a homophone for Aur-, a prefix denoting gold. Orrians seem to employ 'memetic architecture': their towers are based on the rings that fell from high above (as stated in 'Strange Ring Structures'). If the land were corrupted by a golden influence, that would explain the land's golden architecture: our glimpse of Pre-Cataclysm Orr via the Displaced Towers showcases a golden version of the Vizier's Tower.

This hypothetical gold dragon's influence lives on in her descendants. Her presumed gold pallet would explain Vlast, an anomalous yellow-gold amidst the blues and purples of his family.

This revelation would also cast Glint's cities in a new light: Kesho and Tarir are both massive, golden, monuments, and could imply some measure of fondness on Glint's behalf for her grandmother.

[...]

As for community beliefs about the Wealdwood being related to the Exalted, these two things do not have to be mutually exclusive. As servants of Glint and her Legacy, the Exalted could very well be tapping into whatever modicum of her grandmother's power Glint is channeling. We see similarities in their magic as is, with both commanding some measure of power over sand.

a direct quote from anet:

Dragon Minions cannot be corrupted by other dragons. That's why the Sylvari are immune to Zhaitan's magic in Orr. At the time they just thought they were special or something, but by Season 2 it's revealed to be because they were already technically minions of Mordremoth. Dragon's Watch (and mortals in general) have very little insight into the dragons' motivations or thought process to deduce why they tend to not overlap. (Though as a side note, if I recall correctly, when Mordremoth got all riled up he did mess up some waypoints in maps that other minions exist in.)

Destroyers are forged by Primordus rather than being existing creatures that are corrupted. Some are forged in shapes of existing creatures, but they are hand-made by Primordus. He is a special snowflake (a giant, lava snowflake) in that regard.

kudu's monster, subject alpha and beta are special cases caused by inquest tampering rather then regular corruption

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

The Wealdwood feels heavily tied to the Forgotten and Exalted. In The Mystery Cave of Season 2, there are plants and sand which are turned gold in a similar manner to the Wealdwood, and both the Exalted and the Wealdwood are immune to dragon corruption (like other Forgotten magic). Unless they do a second case of "but they were dragon minions all along!" I doubt there will be any connection between the Wealdwood and the Elder Dragons.

@"PanBelacqua.9058" said:Dragons cannot generally interact with one another's corruption, barring recent events that postdate this event.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/66164/dragon-corruptionAndrew Gray refutes this here.

@Andrew Gray.5816 said:Dragon Minions cannot be corrupted by other dragons. That's why the Sylvari are immune to Zhaitan's magic in Orr. At the time they just thought they were special or something, but by Season 2 it's revealed to be because they were already technically minions of Mordremoth.

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:You're making the same mistake as the over-believed mistake of "dragon minions are immune to other dragons' corruption". You proclaim the orb has a draconic nature, because of a false notion its has traits which only things in draconic nature hold (Inquest interest and dragon corruption immunity). But both traits are not draconic in any way, so the orb has no draconic nature.

I think Andrew's comment pretty succinctly addresses the "You're making the same mistake as the over-believed mistake of "dragon minions are immune to other dragons' corruption". " problem. This plainly states that dragon minions cannot be corrupted by other dragons. If the developer is to be believed, you are wrong, and dragons are not generally capable of corrupting one another's minions. External forces like the Inquest can engineer hybrid minions, and recent breakdowns in the once-solid rules have caused the situation to change, but this is still the general rule. If it were not, Taimi would have no reason to be surprised by Vine/Death-Touched Destroyers in Season 3, like you alluded to. This is new, we can still rely on "dragons can't corrupt one another's minions" in historical situations.

Evidently, the Wealdwood has an affinity for crystals.

I was wrong about the gold, my bad. As you said, the wiki uses a peculiar image. This said, I think you dismiss the crystal affinity too easily: the only items we bring to the Wealdwood are crystalline or sand-themed, both of which have strong connections to the Crystal Dragon lineage. Given that the Wealdwood is capable of corrupting other materials, like the earth surrounding it, the crystal obsession (added in 2015, 3+ years after Core's launch) seems noteworthy. Why not bring it a bunch of metals?

This hypothetical gold dragon's influence lives on in her descendants. Her presumed gold pallet would explain Vlast, an anomalous yellow-gold amidst the blues and purples of his family.

Yeah, this is legit. I would have to reread Edge of Destiny, but isn't Kralkatorrik described as having golden breath while forging the Dragonbrand? The wiki states this, though I can't back this up with a page source right now.

This revelation would also cast Glint's cities in a new light: Kesho and Tarir are both massive, golden, monuments, and could imply some measure of fondness on Glint's behalf for her grandmother.

[...]

As for community beliefs about the Wealdwood being related to the Exalted, these two things do not have to be mutually exclusive. As servants of Glint and her Legacy, the Exalted could very well be tapping into whatever modicum of her grandmother's power Glint is channeling. We see similarities in their magic as is, with both commanding some measure of power over sand.

You've connected the Wealdwood to the Forgotten and their architecture (including the Mystery Cave in Point of No Return). There are definite similarities, in that all are gold. However, if we look at the GW1 timeline, we see the note "Serpents arrive on Tyria" in 1769BE. While some major shadows of doubt can be cast on this by GW2's revelations regarding their ancient history, we have to wonder how much of what we've been told with regards to the Forgotten and the gods is actually true. If Glint's grandmother were gold-themed, then the Forgotten could have created their architecture in the Mists in its image, allowing for Kesho and Tarir to be descended both from the Hall of Ascension, and Glint's grandmother.

As for the Hall of Heroes, that is curious. I don't readily have any answers prepared for that, barring "Tyrians are capable of limited Mists-engineering now, the Hall of Heroes could have been constructed by mortals". Granted, the ghosts there tore Lord Odran apart, but that's explained away via him not being an architect of the place easily enough.

The Forgotten have history that spans both Tyria and the Mists, so the bit about

So yes, it is mutually exclusive for something to be either connected to the Elder Dragons or connected to the Forgotten/Six Gods. For one is Tyrian, and the other not.Seems somewhat flawed. Sure, the Six Gods are from beyond Tyria, but the Forgotten straddle that line. If the gods were not the original architects of the Hall of Heroes, then Glint's inherited gold affinity could have influenced the Forgotten's architecture. The Hall of Heroes, Hall of Ascension, Kesho, and Tarir would all be descendants of this.

The gods routinely overstated their own accomplishments. For instance, "[Glint] was said to have been the first creature on Tyria, sent here by the Gods over 3,000 years ago to act as the world's guardian during its shaping, and was later given servants—the Forgotten—to aid her in this task." from GW1. Of course these situations were retcons, but I think we have to abide by the spirit of "GW2 is pulling back the curtains on the extent to which the gods forged the world". The most concrete links between the gods and the Hall of Heroes are (as far as I can see) the presence of statues and avatars there. It's easy enough to construct something in the Mists though, if you have enough energy.

So, to go back over it...1) Dragons can't touch other dragons' energies. Hybridization only comes about through external forces, or breakdowns in the governing system like we're seeing now.2) We still only bring crystal and sand to the Wealdwood. There is nothing stating that we couldn't bring other items there for the other Legendary Collections, so this strikes me as noteworthy.3) Etymology still ties Aurene to gold, she was hatched in a map called Auric Basin, etc. It may be overreaching, but this would make for a nice way to subtly evoke gold surrounding her.4) The Hall of Heroes' origins are dubious, and the earliest record of it (851AE) is late enough that it could very well have been built in the Rift by the Forgotten. We've seen that it is possible to build in the Mists (Dessa, Arkk, the Fractal lounge), and the Forgotten have historically had major presences within the Mists (many within the Realm of Torment, and the pre-GW1 timeline mentions they came from the Mists).

Not gonna deny that Orr/Aur- isn't a stretch: it totally is. But it's a stretch that would thematically connect the two. It's less 'evidence', and more 'would be fantastic retroactive foreshadowing'.

@derd.6413 said:a direct quote from anet:

Dragon Minions cannot be corrupted by other dragons.

That's why the Sylvari are immune to Zhaitan's magic in Orr. At the time they just thought they were special or something, but by Season 2 it's revealed to be because they were already technically minions of Mordremoth. Dragon's Watch (and mortals in general) have very little insight into the dragons' motivations or thought process to deduce why they tend to not overlap. (Though as a side note, if I recall correctly, when Mordremoth got all riled up he did mess up some waypoints in maps that other minions exist in.)

Destroyers are forged by Primordus rather than being existing creatures that are corrupted. Some are forged in shapes of existing creatures, but they are hand-made by Primordus. He is a special snowflake (a giant, lava snowflake) in that regard.

Thank you, PanBelacqua for providing the source.

However, he doesn't even bring up the very obvious cases of Subject Alpha and Kudu's Monster - which, I might add, we see the Inquest create by mere exposure to draconic energies meaning they did jack shit special - or the Pale Tree and Ogden outright stating that the sylvari's immunity comes from the Pale Tree's protection (a phrase which is used on Mordremoth himself) and we see that Mordremoth does not corrupt the sylvari while [at the same time Kralkatorrik does]() corrupt Glint's "branded" minions - all leads me to bet that Andrew doesn't know or forgot all of what lore the devs had established.

Which wouldn't be a first. Angel McCoy, Matthew Medina, Scott McGough, even Bobby Stein have been caught forgetting certain things established in the game and creating unintentional retcons. For example, one major case, was in Season 2 when The Newly Awakened had a line of dialogue that proclaimed Riannoc still lived, but Malomedies was already taken and experimented upon by the asura, yet it was established that Riannoc had died before Malomedies was returned. They ended up fixing this unintentional retcon a patch or so later.

On top of that, we have Aurene branding Caithe, which he doesn't bring up either. ArenaNet devs said in Guild Chat multiple times it's branding. That's the same as saying dragon corruption. So they've pretty much said the counter to that Andrew Grey's statement.

Even if a dev says otherwise, what they established in-game is pretty obvious that dragon minions can be corrupted by other Elder Dragons. As Bobby Stein and other devs have said a few times: What's in-game is more canon than what devs say, because developers can forget some details.

Not to mention that he's also wrong in his statement that Primordus is a "special snowflake" since he hand-makes minions instead of corrupting living beings. For two reasons: 1) Kralkatorrik also hand-forged certain minions (as Andrew Grey himself said!), as does the deep sea dragon (out of water). 2) Primordus was confirmed to be capable of corrupting living beings, and it's heavily implied that we see one such situation in the game itself, but even then we see the Inquest making destroyers by exposing living beings to dragon corruption in CoE story.

@"PanBelacqua.9058" said:I think Andrew's comment pretty succinctly addresses the "You're making the same mistake as the over-believed mistake of "dragon minions are immune to other dragons' corruption". " problem. This plainly states that dragon minions cannot be corrupted by other dragons. If the developer is to be believed, you are wrong, and dragons are not generally capable of corrupting one another's minions. External forces like the Inquest can engineer hybrid minions, and recent breakdowns in the once-solid rules have caused the situation to change, but this is still the general rule. If it were not, Taimi would have no reason to be surprised by Vine/Death-Touched Destroyers in Season 3, like you alluded to. This is new, we can still rely on "dragons can't corrupt one another's minions" in historical situations.

Regardless of the accuracy of Andrew Grey's comment that outright contradicts other developer comments and in-game lore and even his own comments in that very same week, you're still making a fallacy in logic as we know one simple fact:

Dragon minions are not the only things shown to have resistance to Elder Dragon corruption.

Forgotten magic, Six Gods' magic, and a whole ton of shit related to Orr have shown immune to dragon corruption, especially Zhaitan's.

Your argument is basically proclaiming:

A: the Wealdwood cannot be corrupted by Elder DragonsB: Only Elder Dragon corruption cannot be corrupted by Elder DragonsTherefore, C: the Wealdwood must be Elder Dragon corruption.

But B in this case is incorrect, since there are other things untouchable by Elder Dragon corruption than another Elder Dragon's corruption, thus, C is false.

@"PanBelacqua.9058" said:I was wrong about the gold, my bad. As you said, the wiki uses a peculiar image. This said, I think you dismiss the crystal affinity too easily: the only items we bring to the Wealdwood are crystalline or sand-themed, both of which have strong connections to the Crystal Dragon lineage. Given that the Wealdwood is capable of corrupting other materials, like the earth surrounding it, the crystal obsession (added in 2015, 3+ years after Core's launch) seems noteworthy. Why not bring it a bunch of metals?

Mostly I dismiss it because of the legendary collections themselves. They're thematic, but entirely lacking in lore almost explicitly. I mean, Kraitkin's first collection is basically "TENTACLES!" which has absolutely nothing to do with Kraitkin.

In the case of Bifrost, the theme was "observing and testing colors". The step was to take a Jade Maw Lense (crafted from a kraken's eye) and observe the color changing effects of bringing variously colored gemstones to the Wealdwood that changes things to gold. There's no relation between the Wealdwood and those crystals except for what we, the crafter of Bifrost instigated.

It'd be like proclaiming a connection between trolls and charr, just because we can witness in CoE story, the Inquest zapping a bunch of innocents and turning them into dragon minions, and the imprisoned charr happens to turn into a destroyer troll.

@"PanBelacqua.9058" said:Yeah, this is legit. I would have to reread Edge of Destiny, but isn't Kralkatorrik described as having golden breath while forging the Dragonbrand? The wiki states this, though I can't back this up with a page source right now.

You are correct, when Kralk wakes up, he has a golden gale of breath, and uses red lightning. Neither notion makes it into the game, however, not even in concept art cinematics like Kralkatorrik's green appearance. But that's gold in color, basically bright yellow. Like the Sun, which I think is tied to his second domain (that I theorize to be Sky due to the prevailance of wind, lightning, fire, and Glint's Aspects of wind, lightning, and sun) since ArenaNet has yet to tell us his second domain (or any ED other than Mordy and Zhaitan, despite telling us all ED have two domains).

@"PanBelacqua.9058" said:You've connected the Wealdwood to the Forgotten and their architecture (including the Mystery Cave in Point of No Return). There are definite similarities, in that all are gold. However, if we look at the GW1 timeline, we see the note "Serpents arrive on Tyria" in 1769BE. While some major shadows of doubt can be cast on this by GW2's revelations regarding their ancient history, we have to wonder how much of what we've been told with regards to the Forgotten and the gods is actually true. If Glint's grandmother were gold-themed, then the Forgotten could have created their architecture in the Mists in its image, allowing for Kesho and Tarir to be descended both from the Hall of Ascension, and Glint's grandmother.

As for the Hall of Heroes, that is curious. I don't readily have any answers prepared for that, barring "Tyrians are capable of limited Mists-engineering now, the Hall of Heroes could have been constructed by mortals". Granted, the ghosts there tore Lord Odran apart, but that's explained away via him not being an architect of the place easily enough.

The Forgotten have history that spans both Tyria and the Mists, so the bit about

There's no question about the Forgotten's loyalty and reverence to the Six Gods. We see it first hand throughout Nightfall, they cannot retcon that. And, in fact, they do not. Nor do they retcon the Forgotten's origins of being non-Tyrian:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Forgotten_Not_Forgotten

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crystalline_Memories

Both of these remain to connect the Forgotten to the Six Gods, and the former reaffirm their origins lying in the Mists.

The only things brought into question is whether or not that date is accurate. Mursaat and Priory proclaim it's false, but one's ignorant and the others are pathological liars, while it remains matching to Glint's own history.

@"PanBelacqua.9058" said:The gods routinely overstated their own accomplishments. For instance, "[Glint] was said to have been the first creature on Tyria, sent here by the Gods over 3,000 years ago to act as the world's guardian during its shaping, and was later given servants—the Forgotten—to aid her in this task." from GW1. Of course these situations were retcons, but I think we have to abide by the spirit of "GW2 is pulling back the curtains on the extent to which the gods forged the world". The most concrete links between the gods and the Hall of Heroes are (as far as I can see) the presence of statues and avatars there. It's easy enough to construct something in the Mists though, if you have enough energy.

That lie is actually created not by the Six, but by Glint herself. She's the one who lied about her origins, to hide her connection to Kralkatorrik. Similarly, humans were the ones who propogated the false history of the Six Gods creating magic and the Bloodstones. The Six never lied themselves, except to cover up Abaddon's existence (since he gained power from people knowing about him, being the god of knowledge), the Six merely never corrected anyone who spread lies.

That orb is likely just lingering divine magic in some form, which we know can't be corrupted or, presumably, eaten by Elder Dragons.

And like Konig said, the Gods themselves have never actually lied about their origins or actions with the sole exception of suppressing Abaddon worshippers for a pretty good reason really, It was others doing the lying/incorrect retelling.

I would also point out once more Glint's quote RE. the Forgotten and the Gods, she supposes that the Forgotten might have shared more with the Gods, or vice versa, than has been shared with her.

"Glint: The Forgotten told me much, but not everything... What did they tell the Six? What do the gods know that I do not?"

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Regardless of the accuracy of Andrew Grey's comment that outright contradicts other developer comments and in-game lore and even his own comments in that very same week, you're still making a fallacy in logic as we know one simple fact:

Dragon minions are not the only things shown to have resistance to Elder Dragon corruption.

Forgotten magic, Six Gods' magic, and a whole ton of kitten related to Orr have shown immune to dragon corruption, especially Zhaitan's.

Your argument is basically proclaiming:

A: the Wealdwood cannot be corrupted by Elder DragonsB: Only Elder Dragon corruption cannot be corrupted by Elder DragonsTherefore, C: the Wealdwood must be Elder Dragon corruption.

But B in this case is incorrect, since there are other things untouchable by Elder Dragon corruption than another Elder Dragon's corruption, thus, C is false.

It's more correct to say that C is unproven rather than that C is false.

However, another consideration is that gold/pyrite is closely associated with the Forgotten, magic linked to the Forgotten is well known to be able to resist or even cleanse dragon corruption and to repel dragon minions, and it's well known that a lot of Forgotten artifacts ended up in Orr. So the simplest explanation is that the orb is a Forgotten artifact and that's all there is to it.