qtfY benchmarks up for us and...

It isn't as bad as I thought...

We could be in a worst sport, honestly, I'd rather be "meh" than Power Reaper tier.

https://qtfy.eu/guildwars/engineer/power-holosmith/

In Fact the one who was gutted was poor Power Deadeye.

34k, which I think was about what was known already.

Looks like the rotation is "PF, spam 4 when available, otherwise autoattack and laser disk" followed by cycling through the most powerful attacks of rifle, nades, bomb, and lasergun when overheated.

Edit: Their discussion thread on reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/74b1ik/qt_path_of_fire_builds_and_benchmarks/?st=j8dlfqyl&sh=8d0bade1

Condition builds used Pinpoint Distribution. (roughly 3% - 3.5% dps increase depending on class [for example almost none on condi mesmer])We thought about removing this from realistic buffs since Engineer is quite below other Condi classes and might not be worth to take anymore but we decided to wait for the next balance patch to see if anything changes.

In other words, the whole class is in a bad state -- we're not likely to be anywhere near top or "middling" meta for fractals, raids, PvP, or WvW.

34 isn't good considering what everything above Holo can also bring to a group.

Keep in mind their standard boons still include pd, but not assassin's presence from rev. Which boosts Condi numbers a little unrealistically - they mention this in the reddit post, but understandably don't want to spend time retesting everything when balance patches could be nearby.

If you find a rev buddy, your subgroup should have very similar dps to one bringing 2x scourge

The more I look at it the more frustrated I become by this whole Holosmith balance situation...

Before PoF:3 builds/professions above Engi.

After PoF (which included a pure damage elite spec):6 professions ahead of Engineer, 7 builds (!)

And the last two professions? One is practically equal (but it's Condi so will generally be preferred in this meta, not to mention incredible utility potential) and the other will be in every raid anyways being a PS War!

Just about the only positive is two really close Engi builds. That sort of hollow when neither is great though, but it's nice to see.

Yeah, they're just benchmarks and it's not what you'll see in practice. But it's a scale that Engi has fallen far behind on. I mean come on, qT is looking at numbers showing even Pinpoint Distribution (3% to condi builds) isn't even worth taking an Engi for. That was supposed to be a nice buff to Engi utility not something that would be considered the only reason to bring Engi...

Anet dropped the ball badly on this one. I still believe it's easy to fix by tweaking numbers. But if the first post PoF balance patch doesn't address this I will be very disappointed.

"Salty Vindication". Kitten it all. Any ballpark estimate on the upcoming balance patch? All I heard was "Halloween", although I have several other games to play that won't irritate me anyway that are fresh and squeaky new.

@Adamantium.3682 said:Anet dropped the ball badly on this one. I still believe it's easy to fix by tweaking numbers. But if the first post PoF balance patch doesn't address this I will be very disappointed.

Knowing how their "balance team" works, we will see a nerf that gets touted as a buff.

Never forget Power engi nerf sold as an Explosion rework.

well.....you know...judging from our long-standing history of nerfs and discrimination against engi...should we at least be surprised that holosmith made the meta?
¯_(ツ)_/¯With simple rotation as well......Plus! if you look at the list, we are the only profession at the moment with a competitive power build against condi.We have...a power build that is better than...condi atmWhat!What!o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O!

I.....sense......progress...........ish.....(crosses all fingers and toes)

@Shoyoko.7309 said:well.....you know...judging from our long-standing history of nerfs and discrimination against engi...should we at least be surprised that holosmith made the meta?

¯_(ツ)_/¯With simple rotation as well......Plus! if you look at the list, we are the only profession at the moment with a competitive power build against condi.We have...a power build that is better than...condi atmWhat!What!o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O!

I.....sense......progress...........ish.....(crosses all fingers and toes)

I repeat, I'd rather be "trash tier" and inside the meta than being Power Reaper or Power Revenant levels of useless.

anet could give glass cannon a buff to 10% instead of 5% no pvper in there right mind is genna take that in spvp/wvw so its straight up a pve and yolosmith buff and yolosmith aint never genna be meta sadly

@Aldath.1275 said:

@Shoyoko.7309 said:well.....you know...judging from our long-standing history of nerfs and discrimination against engi...should we at least be surprised that holosmith made the meta?

¯_(ツ)_/¯With simple rotation as well......Plus! if you look at the list, we are the only profession at the moment with a competitive power build against condi.We have...a power build that is better than...condi atmWhat!What!o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O!

I.....sense......progress...........ish.....(crosses all fingers and toes)

Odd choice of words there, I'd love to be maining a Necro or Revenant right now.

@Aldath.1275 said:I repeat, I'd rather be "trash tier" and inside the meta than being Power Reaper or Power Revenant levels of useless.

At least you'd have the option to be something good instead.

So to illustrate the importance of support, let's try this... The benchmarks are approximately:Scourge: 39kRenegade: 37k + apHolosmith: 34k + pd

So how does this work in practice if we try some comps?Scourge + scourge - no pd means 1k less dps each.39k + 39k - 2k = 76k

Scourge + holosmith - pd means about 1.5k more from your Condi ps and Condi druid:39k + 34k + 1.5k = 74.5k

Revenant + holosmith - ap means +2k for holo, +1k for support and again, the +1.5k for your supports from pd37k + 34k + 2k + 3.5k = 76.5k

Now this comp does have disadvantages - the ranged dps and burst dps are not so high. It also has some advantages over scourge like more cc skills and the extensive range of utilities available to engineer. It's got tradeoffs, but power holo looks like it's in a decent place to me

@Toeofdoom.6152 said:If you find a rev buddy, your subgroup should have very similar dps to one bringing 2x scourge

Hah, I hadn't thought of this yet but it's super funny to me that power Holosmith buffs the Renegade and Renegade buffs the Holosmith.

could be worse, but still disappointed

It's not bad, it has quite simple rotation, could be worse. I still dislike that there's again prevalence of kits but it's getting better at least.

IMO if Anet reworked hard light arena to be used all the time and only as a boon sharing tool, might stacking engi could be a good option. Anyway with the current state IMO Holo could use a dmg buff when it brings basically nothing besides dmg.

@Adamantium.3682 said:

@Aldath.1275 said:

@Shoyoko.7309 said:well.....you know...judging from our long-standing history of nerfs and discrimination against engi...should we at least be surprised that holosmith made the meta?

¯_(ツ)_/¯With simple rotation as well......Plus! if you look at the list, we are the only profession at the moment with a competitive power build against condi.We have...a power build that is better than...condi atmWhat!What!o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O!

I.....sense......progress...........ish.....(crosses all fingers and toes)

Necros must be over the moon right now, used to be considered the worst to now the best. Sigh...holosmith...I would be okay for this if it wasn't for the high risk mechanism..

"Photonforge has good skills but they don’t scale properly with weapons strength"

/sigh

@Shoyoko.7309 said:

@Adamantium.3682 said:

@Aldath.1275 said:

@Shoyoko.7309 said:well.....you know...judging from our long-standing history of nerfs and discrimination against engi...should we at least be surprised that holosmith made the meta?

¯_(ツ)_/¯With simple rotation as well......Plus! if you look at the list, we are the only profession at the moment with a competitive power build against condi.We have...a power build that is better than...condi atmWhat!What!o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O!

I.....sense......progress...........ish.....(crosses all fingers and toes)

So you are okay with the DPS numbers it's the minor heat damage you have a problem with? Not being confrontational, Just asking, it seems like that is the point you're making.

I don't get that argument... Removing heat damage would put us on the same situation, on the outside of raid groups looking in. Notice how qT said nothing about the heat mechanic, except that with normal raid heals being thrown around you should be able to keep up Scholar just as much as anyone else.

Heat damage is a red herring, it has nothing to do with Engi's placement in the raid list... Giving heat so much attention takes away from the real problems IMO. It would be really frustrating if Holo damage wasn't touched but after all these complaints heat damage was reduced. That is not the problem.

Making the Forge scale with the equipped weapons could help us a lot IMO. If they are concerned about its dmg in pvp then whatever, split it from pvp and let it scale only for pve and wvw.

@Adamantium.3682 said:

@Shoyoko.7309 said:

@Adamantium.3682 said:

@Aldath.1275 said:

@Shoyoko.7309 said:well.....you know...judging from our long-standing history of nerfs and discrimination against engi...should we at least be surprised that holosmith made the meta?

¯_(ツ)_/¯With simple rotation as well......Plus! if you look at the list, we are the only profession at the moment with a competitive power build against condi.We have...a power build that is better than...condi atmWhat!What!o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O! o.O!

I.....sense......progress...........ish.....(crosses all fingers and toes)

meh... just saying.. I'm ok being at 34k with no risk or..having one of the top dps with risk.I get it that you want people to prioritise on holo damage to be buffed (and probably the whole of engi really) as our power and condi build are outdone by 7 professions but ¯_(ツ)_/¯

¯_(ツ)/¯¯_(ツ)/¯Like after 5 years of compulsory engi nerf breakfast it's like...¯_(ツ)/¯¯_(ツ)/¯

Of course I would want our dps to be higher but I am just a least a bit happy that our new elite spec do even as much as 34k... however I don't get the high risk high reward mechanism escpecially with these new results, all the more our damage should be buffed.

But... I get itJust.. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

And here I was, hoping that the sword could be a replacement for being married to the bomb auto. I guess in low quickness scenarios it'll be pretty good.

That new meta is so ridiculis. ANet prepared new specialisation to use sword and shield or pistol. And after that meta is rifle.I play engi since release, and this class realy mis range attack. So mayby it is good to still use rifle. The problem of xpack is it don't change fealing of this class.What is wrong with ANet?

Btw any fight that has a boss moving a bit or to much in general will screw over scourge in terms of its shade placement. Out of all the classes I honestly think Renegade is the beast especially considering mesmer clones don't interact properly with the summoning skills in the benchmarks so that's something to consider.