[Benchmarks] Benchmarks Posted by [qT]

Interesting. Renegade runes recommended. Also, why does thief have like 5 different build benchmarks? From what I have been reading here Power Reaper and Power Scourge are around where the low end Thief benchmarks are. I'll never understand why people take these guys as gospel. Discuss.

https://qtfy.eu/guildwars/benchmarks-path-of-fire/

Edit: Also, they tested Firebrand with Viper because the tester was too poor to get Grieving and does not have Legendary according to their reddit posting.

It's just personal bias really, each of the ppl that post the builds post what they feel is important or not while 2 of those thief builds are pretty meh they work for what its attached to. Like you stated though ppl shouldn't take everything as gospel large portion of the time ppl will use a suggested build and not use it to its full capacity to the point where something like power reaper or power scourge could surpass it.

All around though its honestly good they do this if anyone remembers why the berserk meta was a thing in dungeons was because you would have like 3-4 ppl in a group with a bunch of pure toughness vit stats and no damage because that's what they used in open world and made them feel safe aka face tank stuff. It even happens in your basic pug group stuff today ppl go into raids with heavy toughness vit or some other non important stat thinking they can fulfill the role of "dps" just based on the class and not the gear. What's great now though is pretty much every single class has something they can play as dps now and pass fights at a healthy pace. Now they just need to work on breaking the double chrono druid and ps warrior set up lol!

Also hooray for condi scourge being awesome dps

7 mesmer becnhmarks. They do love their mesmers...

Hurray for DPS though. Inb4 nerfs.

QT made a divine pronouncement in favor of us? Isn't that the 7th sign of the apocalypse or something? Can we raid with the cool kids now? Can I join a Fractal group without getting kicked now for being a necto? Dare I hope?

@Exqq.7451 said:Interesting. Renegade runes recommended. Also, why does thief have like 5 different build benchmarks? From what I have been reading here Power Reaper and Power Scourge are around where the low end Thief benchmarks are. I'll never understand why people take these guys as gospel. Discuss.

https://qtfy.eu/guildwars/benchmarks-path-of-fire/

Edit: Also, they tested Firebrand with Viper because the tester was too poor to get Grieving and does not have Legendary according to their reddit posting.

I'd like to see them re-run that with Nightmare/Trapper, personally. I'm not sure the additional 100 condition damage +7% is worth the 25% duration loss on burns, torment, and poison (and 5% on bleeds).

@Exqq.7451 said:Interesting. Renegade runes recommended. Also, why does thief have like 5 different build benchmarks? From what I have been reading here Power Reaper and Power Scourge are around where the low end Thief benchmarks are. I'll never understand why people take these guys as gospel. Discuss.

https://qtfy.eu/guildwars/benchmarks-path-of-fire/

Edit: Also, they tested Firebrand with Viper because the tester was too poor to get Grieving and does not have Legendary according to their reddit posting.

in true fight, scourge will low then soulbeast

Ok, question for the mathheads about that line: "has a bunch of traits which increase condi duration allowing it to use renegade runes."

"Bunch of traits" seems to be Sand Sage, which fluctuates around A LOT since we aren't able to keep even 2 shades at permanent basis. Fell Beacon generally works, but then there's Lingering Curse, with common misconception about it (launched by Qt themselves IIRC) that is helps us achieve max duation, when it simply scales both duration AND maximum duration for Scepter.

So, is that statement true? FB and bonus from 1 shade is enough to cap duration in full Viper?

@Wintermute.5408 said:Ok, question for the mathheads about that line: "has a bunch of traits which increase condi duration allowing it to use renegade runes."

"Bunch of traits" seems to be Sand Sage, which fluctuates around A LOT since we aren't able to keep even 2 shades at permanent basis. Fell Beacon generally works, but then there's Lingering Curse, with common misconception about it (launched by Qt themselves IIRC) that is helps us achieve max duation, when it simply scales both duration AND maximum duration for Scepter.

So, is that statement true? FB and bonus from 1 shade is enough to cap duration in full Viper?

Full Viper, 4 Nightmare/2 Trapper, Malice sigil, +100 Expertise food and a Furious tuning crystal with Fell Beacon will net you 100.5% condition duration with 1 shade up.

With Renegade runes, you don't even hit 100% on bleeding, let alone anything else.

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@Wintermute.5408 said:Ok, question for the mathheads about that line: "has a bunch of traits which increase condi duration allowing it to use renegade runes."

"Bunch of traits" seems to be Sand Sage, which fluctuates around A LOT since we aren't able to keep even 2 shades at permanent basis. Fell Beacon generally works, but then there's Lingering Curse, with common misconception about it (launched by Qt themselves IIRC) that is helps us achieve max duation, when it simply scales both duration AND maximum duration for Scepter.

So, is that statement true? FB and bonus from 1 shade is enough to cap duration in full Viper?

Is such setup better then? This way we do lose 75 condi damage, 7% further increase and ferocity, whatever it does to the build. Some folks have been saying it scales nicely with F skills.

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@Exqq.7451 said:Interesting. Renegade runes recommended. Also, why does thief have like 5 different build benchmarks? From what I have been reading here Power Reaper and Power Scourge are around where the low end Thief benchmarks are. I'll never understand why people take these guys as gospel. Discuss.

https://qtfy.eu/guildwars/benchmarks-path-of-fire/

Edit: Also, they tested Firebrand with Viper because the tester was too poor to get Grieving and does not have Legendary according to their reddit posting.

I would like to see this as well. Based off their Firebrand being based off Viper and not Grieving (according to their reddit post; because no money), I'm convinced the setup you say would be better and they went with what they did so as not to clear a few dungeons to get runes. But would have to see the math.

Considering my vague testing had Burning and Torment as a HUGE portion of DPS, leaving them behind like this seems... odd.

@Exqq.7451 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@Exqq.7451 said:Interesting. Renegade runes recommended. Also, why does thief have like 5 different build benchmarks? From what I have been reading here Power Reaper and Power Scourge are around where the low end Thief benchmarks are. I'll never understand why people take these guys as gospel. Discuss.

https://qtfy.eu/guildwars/benchmarks-path-of-fire/

Edit: Also, they tested Firebrand with Viper because the tester was too poor to get Grieving and does not have Legendary according to their reddit posting.

Bleeding is still our top Condition Damage wise. I don't see how Renegade wouldn't be more DPS. We can't maintain super high stacks of Torment and Burning. We basically just do Burst application of the two, then it falls off, and we rinse and repeat. If we could maintain them like we do Bleeding, then I could see Trapper and Nightmare being better.

@Kam.4092 said:

@Exqq.7451 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@Exqq.7451 said:Interesting. Renegade runes recommended. Also, why does thief have like 5 different build benchmarks? From what I have been reading here Power Reaper and Power Scourge are around where the low end Thief benchmarks are. I'll never understand why people take these guys as gospel. Discuss.

https://qtfy.eu/guildwars/benchmarks-path-of-fire/

Edit: Also, they tested Firebrand with Viper because the tester was too poor to get Grieving and does not have Legendary according to their reddit posting.

We can maintain ~10 stacks of Torment average with ease once you factor Alacrity, so I would call that "significant." Burning we average another 2-4 stacks on average, so that shouldn't be ignored either.

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@Wintermute.5408 said:Ok, question for the mathheads about that line: "has a bunch of traits which increase condi duration allowing it to use renegade runes."

"Bunch of traits" seems to be Sand Sage, which fluctuates around A LOT since we aren't able to keep even 2 shades at permanent basis. Fell Beacon generally works, but then there's Lingering Curse, with common misconception about it (launched by Qt themselves IIRC) that is helps us achieve max duation, when it simply scales both duration AND maximum duration for Scepter.

So, is that statement true? FB and bonus from 1 shade is enough to cap duration in full Viper?

Actually, with 2 shades up (average of 1,9) you should be at 85% condi and 105% bleed, without anything your raid could bring you.

From the other scourge build there was around, it's about the same dps in full viper renegade than 1 piece sinister nightmare/trapper. It's probably so close it doesn't really matter.

Nightmare runes are a pain to get though, so that's that.

@Ktk.5107 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@Wintermute.5408 said:Ok, question for the mathheads about that line: "has a bunch of traits which increase condi duration allowing it to use renegade runes."

"Bunch of traits" seems to be Sand Sage, which fluctuates around A LOT since we aren't able to keep even 2 shades at permanent basis. Fell Beacon generally works, but then there's Lingering Curse, with common misconception about it (launched by Qt themselves IIRC) that is helps us achieve max duation, when it simply scales both duration AND maximum duration for Scepter.

So, is that statement true? FB and bonus from 1 shade is enough to cap duration in full Viper?

Not sure where you're getting those numbers.

Allies can't help you out at all on condition duration.

For reference, 4 Nightmare/2 Trapper full Vipers, yada yada gives 84.26% general condition duration with no shades (before accounting for food, which only adds 9.93% for either rune set). Renegade runes is 24.65% lower for a maximum general condition duration of 69.54%+5%/shade. You don't quite hit the duration cap for Bleeding with only 2 shades, let alone anything else.

I'm looking at that build editor thing and it's not taking into account the 7% condi dmg as expertise, so I just did the math myself, and I got those numbers, if you have a better build editor which will demonstrate more clearly the amount of duration you get then please introduce me to it.

@Wintermute.5408 said:7 mesmer becnhmarks. They do love their mesmers...

Hurray for DPS though. Inb4 nerfs.

They're condi and power variants of chrono, condi variant of mirage, and power mesmer. All of which are used builds. What build other than scourge or condi reaper is a necro build used in raids?

You have some nerve to be complaining when you got an apex elite dps spec with utility and godly cleave, while the mesmer's mirage is just a garbage single target ramp up version that does 4k less DPS than you, doesn't cleave, and offers zero utility.

Mesmer is the single class thus far without a competitive DPS build for a raid.

So the best raid class, the best wpvp class, the best spvp class.

Yeah, Arenanet is comming with a butcher's knife. It will be swift.

Yet Power Reaper is still a steaming pile of crap.

I'm really not sure that runes of renegade are better then berserker runes. The additional power and 5% power damage is surely more then 2% condi damage...no?PS: OP I also don't care about this "pro meta ****" builds, but as a person who raids with pugs I'm pulled into the herd...

@mazut.4296 said:I'm really not sure that runes of renegade are better then berserker runes. The additional power and 5% power damage is surely more then 2% condi damage...no?PS: OP I also don't care about this "pro meta ****" builds, but as a person who raids with pugs I'm pulled into the herd...

Scepter has shit power damage, like 5% does nothing on it really. But the differences are not that big that you could not run berserker runes and do good damage.

@mazut.4296 said:I'm really not sure that runes of renegade are better then berserker runes. The additional power and 5% power damage is surely more then 2% condi damage...no?PS: OP I also don't care about this "pro meta ****" builds, but as a person who raids with pugs I'm pulled into the herd...

Looking at the logs about 17% percent of the damage is power and the rest (83%) is condi.

@Aceofsppades.6873 said:

@mazut.4296 said:I'm really not sure that runes of renegade are better then berserker runes. The additional power and 5% power damage is surely more then 2% condi damage...no?PS: OP I also don't care about this "pro meta ****" builds, but as a person who raids with pugs I'm pulled into the herd...

So are Berserker Runes worth it then?

@Substatic.6958 said:So the best raid class, the best wpvp class, the best spvp class.

Yeah, Arenanet is comming with a butcher's knife. It will be swift.

TODAY AT ANET HEADQUARTERS SECRET STAFFING BUNKER{Staffing Leader} Team, welcome back from your weekend. I hope you all enjoy yourselves.{Team} It was great!{Staffing Leader} So we have a packed schedule today but none of that matters right now. We have something far more important to discuss as I'm sure most of you are aware.{Team} Umm... What happened?{Staffing Leader} As I am sure all of you have seen, [qT] posted their new benchmarks for the community. While I enjoy the community engagement this recent review by them brings to light an absolute failure on our part during the development of this content. Anyone know what I'm talking about?{Team} Necromancer is posting high results.{Staffing Leader} Who was responsible for this?{Team} Jerry was responsible, Sir.{Staffing Leader} Jerry, get your SHIT AND GET OUT OF THE FUCKING BUILDING!{Staffing Leader} Now, it isn't too late. Can we fix this?{Team} YES, SIR!

@Ktk.5107 said:I'm looking at that build editor thing and it's not taking into account the 7% condi dmg as expertise, so I just did the math myself, and I got those numbers, if you have a better build editor which will demonstrate more clearly the amount of duration you get then please introduce me to it.

Yeah, that build editor factors the condition damage you get from Target the Weak and Lingering Curse into the Fell Beacon conversion, which doesn't happen in-game. Fell Beacon only converts based on gear stats.

It actually adds too much Expertise.

@Ktk.5107 said:I'm looking at that build editor thing and it's not taking into account the 7% condi dmg as expertise, so I just did the math myself, and I got those numbers, if you have a better build editor which will demonstrate more clearly the amount of duration you get then please introduce me to it.

Those 7% condi dmg don't provide expertise because 7% is added directly to your skill base dmg and not to your condition damage stat number. You get expertise from your stats condition damage, not total condition damage.

Renegade vs Trapper/Nightmare runes are about the same on static target but Trapper/Nightmare will yield more DPS on moving target because of uptime of applied conditions, same goes for mechanics in encounters. Also for shorter encounters Renegade is probably better because of higher bursting potential (QT kills fast, so for them Renegade runes are better). If you and your party play on QT level go for Renegade runes, if not go for Trapper/Nightmare combo. :)