Where Is The Rest of The Walls "Change"?
Svarty.8019
Member ✭✭✭✭
Raymond has stated on multiple Twitch livestreams that the Tier 2 and 3 wall nerf was part of a larger project and that the other parts were to [EDIT]increase decrease "time to entry".
Please can we get a timetable on;
1. Situational appraisal and,
2. Implementation for the other stages of the project?
[I edited increase to decrease AFTER the below posts, so they correctly point out that it should be decrease, apologies to all for the confusion]
Also, this is regarding:
"Gates and walls have had their damage mitigation normalized to the damage levels done to tier 1 (wood). All walls and gates should now take the same amount of damage from a siege attack."
Source: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/73321/game-update-notes-april-9-2019
This post contains my opinion.
Comments
I would speculate and hope that they are waiting to see gameplay implications of their changes for a while prior to making more changes.
As much as people complain about balance changes, many of the changes over the last year have been more tweaks to balance instead of hammering things into the ground.
Now, I tend to view things through more rosy glasses than some? But... I can hope.
Thank You for the {MEME}
I agree that it's important to take one's time over such a thing and I'm aware that they're appraising the situation because they've stated as much on the livestream.
I'd like to know how long this appraisal period will persist, and when we can expect the implementation of the important and missing follow up work. Meanwhile, I know people who want to play but aren't doing so because they perceive that the strategy layer has been stripped away from WvW.
This post contains my opinion.
There are many reasons people stop playing:
Those haven’t changed either which, in many of the cases, many want them to have changed yesterday.
I guess my point is, I don’t think the loss of strategic play has markedly impacted the population enough where that would be an issue for them.
Thank You for the {MEME}
No. The people I know are people I know - they quit for the reason I know and stated above.
This post contains my opinion.
I won’t dispute that..
It just hasn’t dented the population enough to rise to the attention of the developers wanting to intervene.
Thank You for the {MEME}
Umm... what?
They wanted to DECREASE time to entry, and they did just that. Now Blobgate can flip a T3 tower before you can even get defenders to be aware of it. Keeps are not much longer.
How many times we gotta tell you GRIND IS NOT CONTENT there ANet?
Leader of Tyrian Adventure Corp [TACO], member of [RaW][TACO][Owls][HELL] Alliance, Kaineng.
You mean the T3 towers which has basicly had perma watchtower on them since tactivators where released? Yeah its real easy to sneak those.
gaggle - /ˈɡaɡ(ə)l/ - noun
A disorderly group of Asura.
"The gaggle of Asura tried to agree on whether a phase-shifted thermonuclear energy matrix was sufficiently powerful for a device capable of heating bread"
It's not just Blackgate, it's every server we've been paired against. The biggest blob wins.
They've killed strategy in WVW. Siege is practically useless. It's no longer fun to roam or defend. There is no longer any thought required. It's just blob vs blob and lagging to death....just like it was at the beginning of the game. Anet killed server loyalty years ago with the mega-servers for pve. Now, people just switch servers without hesitation.
Fewer and fewer long time WVWers are bothering to play regularly...including me.
Wouldnt this imply there was strategy to begin with?
WvW hasnt changed at all. People keep looking back at the exact same blobs, the exact same karma trains, the exact same flaws and go... "oooh it was better in the past uhum yep. Now get off my lawn you spellbreaker hippie!"
gaggle - /ˈɡaɡ(ə)l/ - noun
A disorderly group of Asura.
"The gaggle of Asura tried to agree on whether a phase-shifted thermonuclear energy matrix was sufficiently powerful for a device capable of heating bread"
Walls change was so bad. Previously when karma train was training around you could notice that T3 keep is contested, run there, scout 40 enemies, then ally commander WP to the nearest wp and gives nice human fight instead of just k-trainig and fighting NPCs.
Now most of the time you need to be inside keep to scout enemies in time, and sometimes EWP needs to be used anyway. I wont even say a thing about melting T3 towers.
I still remember that to some servers most disgraceful thing was to cap their garri. Atm its just like that
-we are Green
-fighting somewhere in the south of the map
-oh, Garri turned blue, capped by 6 ppl
-well, happens
But i guess thats what they call evolution, the future is now, old man
Dont mind me, I just randomly spam 35 skill-buttons
25.02.2020 edit - Nevermind, now I spam only 29 skill-buttons
Me too. Having this game since launch, WvW is the only mode I played regularly since two years ago and ANet is slowly killing it for me with the recent defence nerfs and Warclaw nerfs and also, due to their unbalanced balance patch, the ONLY META CLASS ARE WELCOME IN SQUAD cancer has already spread to many commanders. Many of my guild mates and friends seldom login these past months too, not like before when I used to see them every day, even though we are in different servers.
At this deteriorating rate, is it even viable for ANet to continue with the Alliance project, which btw I believe is still at its infant stage? Only time can tell.
No its called having to be more active instead of relying on passive defense, young man.
You know, like WvW was in the good old days without sentries, tactivators and nowhere near as strong objectives.
gaggle - /ˈɡaɡ(ə)l/ - noun
A disorderly group of Asura.
"The gaggle of Asura tried to agree on whether a phase-shifted thermonuclear energy matrix was sufficiently powerful for a device capable of heating bread"
Because it was better in the past for those who liked actual fights and tactics.
Capping a T3 keep was serious work, our guild planed out raids hours before hand, I was one of the main roamers that would flip camps to starve supply for 2 hours before raids, I would build a golem in each and WP it back to spawn, about 30mins before start, two mes would get on and double portal me to locations around the map so I could place golems, in the trees south of water gate, in the rocks of the cliff by Hills, and in the water by Bay. You had to be fast and sneaky because T3 was very hard and took a while to get into, and back then a single AC would melt a whole zerg of golems before you got a outer gate to 80%. And when you got into inner, be ready for hours long fights.
We had training on tactics every week, we had dedicated finishers, because back then Quickness actually worked on stomps. We had a main tag and a targeted tag, main tag was the hammer train, target was the range bomb tag, 3rd unmarked was a party of 5 that ganked back line DPS, while 2-3 thieves would quickness finish their downs. When someone missed their rotation or call out, EVERYONE felt it, and it was hard to recover from and often meant a wipe.
A few years after this they started to soften everything about WvW, people who were standing and being called out by tag mind you to get out of the huge red circles, but didn't because they were casuals and were not in coms no matter how many times it was spammed, cried and cried for nerfs, so they did. They then wanted to cap faster, so masteries and cata/ram buffs came in. Then passive buffs like tactics, and watchtower, we used to have dedicated scouts in each keep, don't want to spend time sweeping keep for a mes because it slows down your ktrain? Oh here, lets mark everything in or around a structure after flipping. Then the new expansions brought in even larger amounts of skill spam, along with power creep. Now we have nerfs to structures to again decrease time to get into one, and mounts that protect anyone who doesn't want to fight, or used for spam resetting of fights on stealth classes, or used for spam tapping keeps and WPs, now it's impossible to catch them doing it.
If someone from back then who left the game came into WvW today, they would not even recognize it.
Everything has focused on passives, less interactions, less fighting, less skill. It used to be serious talk about how to break up zergs and get them to spread out, now it seems they do everything they can to support and encourage a bigger and bigger blob.
"When you power creep the game and make it so that spam gameplay is nearly as effective as deep knowledge and nuance, the quality of players will decrease." -Exedore
I miss the old upgrades...
it was really satisfying running yaks and protecting them to towers that you were currently paying for upgrades on, sieging it perfectly so it wasnt lost and having guild towers, where guildies would log in and scout and defend for said tower.
it gave a sense of importance to protect objectives as well and commanders would recognize the work and gold players put in to accomplish such things so they would actually make an effort to protect such investments.
RIP [RUN] Tower, Mendons.
^x100
The cost just shifted to guild halls and tactivators.
But granted I do think we should have kept the manual upgrading and forked the paths for different options so that the towers could be a little more varied (or have a more modular tactivator system where the passive upgrades are slotted at a cost of regular tactivators).
gaggle - /ˈɡaɡ(ə)l/ - noun
A disorderly group of Asura.
"The gaggle of Asura tried to agree on whether a phase-shifted thermonuclear energy matrix was sufficiently powerful for a device capable of heating bread"
@ TinkTinkPOOF.9201
Nothing but truth. I remember when you actually had to combo fields for boons or actively scout an objective for the enemy. Let alone pre-megaservers when you had callouts in PvE maps to come help out WvW for your server. Now it's all on auto-pilot mode, fire and forget. Almost every structure pings you on map now... so much for the little groups, better go and join the blob... WvW - Big Brother is watching you.
Ha, I remember the first few weeks after mega servers, which is one of the WORST things to happen to WvW, were people map chatting in PvE for people to help Garri, and lots of other people in map telling them to pound sand because it was people from all sorts of other servers, and such was the death of people caring and server pride. It was great to do these callouts back in the day and have an instant map queue to come save Garri, hell with time to cap these days, it wouldn't work, as they would be on lord before the first person ported into the BL.
"When you power creep the game and make it so that spam gameplay is nearly as effective as deep knowledge and nuance, the quality of players will decrease." -Exedore
And without megaservers PvE would have been dead many years ago and WvW along with it. I still remember the time just before megaservers - running around on nearly empty maps unable to do any major event simply because the population had dropped that much from launch.
It was only a matter of time until critical mass would be reached. It had to be done and it kept GW2 going.
gaggle - /ˈɡaɡ(ə)l/ - noun
A disorderly group of Asura.
"The gaggle of Asura tried to agree on whether a phase-shifted thermonuclear energy matrix was sufficiently powerful for a device capable of heating bread"
I still had no problem finding lots of people in WvW, and honestly more people than now on off hours, and I was on a mid tier server. They didn't need mega servers to do this as they could have combined servers, or the lowest population servers could have been given one free transfer to any server that was going to remain. Mega servers was a choice for PvE alone with no thought of impact to WvW.
"When you power creep the game and make it so that spam gameplay is nearly as effective as deep knowledge and nuance, the quality of players will decrease." -Exedore
You must be pretty bad at WvW if you don't know how to open a tower without getting into watchtower range... And as soon as you see the flood of red dots running inside it's mostly already too late.
... I have literally never seen a commander capable of hiding his zerg while fiddling around with "secretive" sieges. They walk up to the door slap down 6-8 rams and take it. A treb siege or cata siege from outside balloon range takes alot longer and for the former cost alot more. And if defenders fail to notice that 50+ are on the border taking their buffer camps/towers objectives well then it doesnt matter how fast they then take major objectives, defenders have already lost.
gaggle - /ˈɡaɡ(ə)l/ - noun
A disorderly group of Asura.
"The gaggle of Asura tried to agree on whether a phase-shifted thermonuclear energy matrix was sufficiently powerful for a device capable of heating bread"
Do not need to sneak them - just wander up, slap some seige down and be on Lord before defenders have finished typing "20 reds at garri - 4 rams, 2 golems, need help!"
I do wonder if you actually play wvw or if you just like the sound of your own voice
As shown in your next comment - which I really do not understand "I have literally never seen a commander capable of hiding his zerg while fiddling around with "secretive" sieges. They walk up to the door slap down 6-8 rams and take it. A treb siege or cata siege from outside balloon range takes alot longer and for the former cost alot more. And if defenders fail to notice that 50+ are on the border taking their buffer camps/towers objectives well then it doesnt matter how fast they then take major objectives, defenders have already lost."
Unless you are agreeing with us - that new thin walls and gates have changed the gameplay to the point of many people not wanting to take part in wvw anymore because objectives CANNOT be defended
Oh I most surely do not. Because objectives are defended on a daily basis.
Does defense always happen as soon as enemies look at the gates? No. Yesterday we had 40ish greens spotted on inner garri (T1), outmanned border. They breeched the outer door before we could act (rams +golems) because of course they timed the outmanned tick. But we called it out, a commander that was just gathering came (like less than 10 in squad) and we clouded them around the lord for maybe 10m before we brought them down.
Then also yesterday we had 2 guilds on another border plus randoms. We said outer T1 bay approaching T2 is going down, 20ish greens. No one respond. We say inner bay is going down. No one respond. We are 2 people available to defend. We say they are through inner. 5 minutes or so from first call, they cap it... with one of the guilds failing to enter the south door.
Just because people have the reaction time of a soggy banana doesnt mean the objectives are broken. If either of these scenarios arent easily recognizable and could swing either way in defense I also question whether you play WvW. Arguing that you shouldnt need to be active to play WvW is about as reasonable as arguing that you need to do too much PvE for certain PvE collections.
gaggle - /ˈɡaɡ(ə)l/ - noun
A disorderly group of Asura.
"The gaggle of Asura tried to agree on whether a phase-shifted thermonuclear energy matrix was sufficiently powerful for a device capable of heating bread"
... still waiting for information on the rest of the walls change ... Can we please have an update, Raymond? Ben? Anybody?
This post contains my opinion.
Raymond mentioned it again last week... or was it the week before? Anyway, I just wanted you to know that I'm still thinking of you. Here is the original quote:
43 mins into this video... https://twitch.tv/videos/402656725
"time to entry is something that we're really trying to adjust because we think the fun is trying to push back the attack and then once everyone's inside and able to fight, that's where a lot of the fun begins"
This post contains my opinion.
So break down walls and gates faster before defenders can rally is suppose to help? Maybe he's talking about fighting in and around lords room, which they probably don't even remember that part of keeping that fight going was bannering the lord which they took out. Also numbers, which reset has a lot of to make those fights fun for 2 hours, rest of the week, some servers have it, a lot don't.
Those huge long fights in garrison are some of the best in the game, but it doesn't happen a whole lot other than reset night for a whole host of reasons. So now you get ghost cap keeps or laggy smc lord fights to contend with.
No one wants to bother defending a paper keep, they might show up for an upgraded keep, but then no one wants to attack an upgraded keep unless they get little resistance. So maybe they should make all walls one general level like eotm and bring back lord banners if they want the fights to be more inside focused. Still doesn't really solve the numbers problem for the "once everyone's inside and able to fight, that's where a lot of the fun begins" part, like getting your stuff run over by t1 blobs isn't "fun".
^ Another derailing post - Anet
Perma stealth is needed to outrun zergs. - Thieves
/Stomps Mirage-Scourge-Warclaw, boon ball balance! - Anet
No expansion money as long as Mesmers are trash. - Me
Yet oddly, therein lies most of the gameplay. PPT has never been about fights and blobbing has never been about good gameplay. The most successful servers hardly see a good fight. In fact, fighting players is mostly counterproductive.
[HUNT] the predatory instinct
Which is inherently true. Problem is, there is no other option with WvW stats for smaller engagements that are geared towards the fight.
5’s
10’s
15’s or bigger
Hell even 2’s.
So people try to create their own within the confines of others that wish for a different experience.
Thank You for the {MEME}
It's about six months since Tier 2 and 3 walls were nerfed. I wonder if we can get an update on the progress of the rest of this project, please?
This post contains my opinion.
Don't worry. Whenever there are calls to nerf something, ANet's Nerf Team welcomes them with open arms and eventually they will be nerfed deep into the ground... and beyond.
But if you ask for a buff or improvement or fun in this game... Gooood luck.
No.
Because the other stages of the project was denial.
gaggle - /ˈɡaɡ(ə)l/ - noun
A disorderly group of Asura.
"The gaggle of Asura tried to agree on whether a phase-shifted thermonuclear energy matrix was sufficiently powerful for a device capable of heating bread"
I've been wondering about this too. Yet another "second part" that never happens.
Perish [FLEE] YouTube
Best thing on this matter is adjust siegecap by 1 piece and 50% on range since IT nerves Both attackers and defenders, buffing gate health can Just bring on another siege wars
I'm really curious as to what they're doing here. I missed the announcement (if there was one?) about the first part, though I did notice that wall health was lower. 6 months is a long time--what could they possible have in store that can't even be mentioned in that time frame?
Also, apparently they don't have any fun fighting to open structures...which is not a great look when designing a territory control game. They should seriously consider hiring a non-zergling...
I've edited your quote, so that an Arenanet employee could read it more clearly.
I concur with your opinion and would very much like to see what would happen if such an employee were to appear.
It seems to me that there are many things that could be tried in terms of wall adjustments in order to make the capturing process more interesting. I believe we're currently in a situation where the game favours a specific types of attacker (giant group, aka zerg) - especially now that pulls and other crowd control abilities are way more common than their counters (such as Stability).
The knock-on effect is that the traditional counters to siege, i.e. disablers and counter-siege are themselves death-traps - countering big groups is now too difficult.
I posit that Just because you bring a giant group, doesn't NECESSARILY mean you should get a free cap (effortless capture). -we're losing players because it appears that Arenanet don't agree.
Why bother trying to defend anymore?
This post contains my opinion.
wait do I smell more forgotten future plans?
Generally if you want to counter a big group, you should bring a big group of your own.
If you can't be bothered to cohesively work together to stop the enemy, you deserve to lose the structure.
If you don't have enough people to form a big group, that is a different problem that doesn't have to do with wall health or territory control.
If an Anet employee hasnt read it in 2 years, why would they want to read it more clearly now?
gaggle - /ˈɡaɡ(ə)l/ - noun
A disorderly group of Asura.
"The gaggle of Asura tried to agree on whether a phase-shifted thermonuclear energy matrix was sufficiently powerful for a device capable of heating bread"
As much as I like this game mode (wvw only) for many years, I stopped pve at HoT. There’s just no point to bash your head against the wall of silence regarding meaningful changes to our favoured game mode anymore. I salute those who try, but there’s other things to potentially spend your money and more importantly time on.
There will always be more profit in mass pve modes, events etc so that’s where resources go. And tbh after a few weeks I don’t really miss it as all but a few guildies and friends have long since left for other (not necessarily) greener pastures.
Without any acknowledgement whatsoever, we can only assume that it was too opaque for said people to comprehend the first time around.
This post contains my opinion.