Where Is The Rest of The Walls "Change"? — Guild Wars 2 Forums
Home WvW

Where Is The Rest of The Walls "Change"?

Svarty.8019Svarty.8019 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited July 11, 2020 in WvW

Raymond has stated on multiple Twitch livestreams that the Tier 2 and 3 wall nerf was part of a larger project and that the other parts were to [EDIT]increase decrease "time to entry".

Please can we get a timetable on;
1. Situational appraisal and,
2. Implementation for the other stages of the project?

[I edited increase to decrease AFTER the below posts, so they correctly point out that it should be decrease, apologies to all for the confusion]

Also, this is regarding:

"Gates and walls have had their damage mitigation normalized to the damage levels done to tier 1 (wood). All walls and gates should now take the same amount of damage from a siege attack."

Source: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/73321/game-update-notes-april-9-2019

This post contains my opinion.

Comments

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I would speculate and hope that they are waiting to see gameplay implications of their changes for a while prior to making more changes.

    As much as people complain about balance changes, many of the changes over the last year have been more tweaks to balance instead of hammering things into the ground.

    Now, I tend to view things through more rosy glasses than some? But... I can hope.

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • Svarty.8019Svarty.8019 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I agree that it's important to take one's time over such a thing and I'm aware that they're appraising the situation because they've stated as much on the livestream.

    I'd like to know how long this appraisal period will persist, and when we can expect the implementation of the important and missing follow up work. Meanwhile, I know people who want to play but aren't doing so because they perceive that the strategy layer has been stripped away from WvW.

    This post contains my opinion.

  • Svarty.8019Svarty.8019 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    I guess my point is, I don’t think the loss of strategic play has markedly impacted the population enough where that would be an issue for them.

    No. The people I know are people I know - they quit for the reason I know and stated above.

    This post contains my opinion.

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Svarty.8019 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    I guess my point is, I don’t think the loss of strategic play has markedly impacted the population enough where that would be an issue for them.

    No. The people I know are people I know - they quit for the reason I know and stated above.

    I won’t dispute that..

    It just hasn’t dented the population enough to rise to the attention of the developers wanting to intervene.

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kylden Ar.3724 said:
    Now Blobgate can flip a T3 tower before you can even get defenders to be aware of it.

    You mean the T3 towers which has basicly had perma watchtower on them since tactivators where released? Yeah its real easy to sneak those.

    gaggle - /ˈɡaɡ(ə)l/ - noun
    A disorderly group of Asura.
    "The gaggle of Asura tried to agree on whether a phase-shifted thermonuclear energy matrix was sufficiently powerful for a device capable of heating bread"

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 28, 2019

    @Doll Mistress.9267 said:
    They've killed strategy in WVW.

    Wouldnt this imply there was strategy to begin with?

    WvW hasnt changed at all. People keep looking back at the exact same blobs, the exact same karma trains, the exact same flaws and go... "oooh it was better in the past uhum yep. Now get off my lawn you spellbreaker hippie!"

    gaggle - /ˈɡaɡ(ə)l/ - noun
    A disorderly group of Asura.
    "The gaggle of Asura tried to agree on whether a phase-shifted thermonuclear energy matrix was sufficiently powerful for a device capable of heating bread"

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Widmo.3186 said:
    But i guess thats what they call evolution, the future is now, old man

    No its called having to be more active instead of relying on passive defense, young man.

    You know, like WvW was in the good old days without sentries, tactivators and nowhere near as strong objectives.

    gaggle - /ˈɡaɡ(ə)l/ - noun
    A disorderly group of Asura.
    "The gaggle of Asura tried to agree on whether a phase-shifted thermonuclear energy matrix was sufficiently powerful for a device capable of heating bread"

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 29, 2019

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Widmo.3186 said:
    But i guess thats what they call evolution, the future is now, old man

    No its called having to be more active instead of relying on passive defense, young man.

    You know, like WvW was in the good old days without sentries, tactivators and nowhere near as strong objectives.

    I miss the old upgrades...

    it was really satisfying running yaks and protecting them to towers that you were currently paying for upgrades on, sieging it perfectly so it wasnt lost and having guild towers, where guildies would log in and scout and defend for said tower.

    it gave a sense of importance to protect objectives as well and commanders would recognize the work and gold players put in to accomplish such things so they would actually make an effort to protect such investments.

    RIP [RUN] Tower, Mendons.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @sephiroth.4217 said
    it was really satisfying running yaks and protecting them to towers that you were currently paying for upgrades on, sieging it perfectly so it wasnt lost and having guild towers, where guildies would log in and scout and defend for said tower.

    it gave a sense of importance to protect objectives as well and commanders would recognize the work and gold players put in to accomplish such things so they would actually make an effort to protect such investments.

    The cost just shifted to guild halls and tactivators.

    But granted I do think we should have kept the manual upgrading and forked the paths for different options so that the towers could be a little more varied (or have a more modular tactivator system where the passive upgrades are slotted at a cost of regular tactivators).

    gaggle - /ˈɡaɡ(ə)l/ - noun
    A disorderly group of Asura.
    "The gaggle of Asura tried to agree on whether a phase-shifted thermonuclear energy matrix was sufficiently powerful for a device capable of heating bread"

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Zephyra.4709 said:
    @ TinkTinkPOOF.9201

    Nothing but truth. I remember when you actually had to combo fields for boons or actively scout an objective for the enemy. Let alone pre-megaservers when you had callouts in PvE maps to come help out WvW for your server. Now it's all on auto-pilot mode, fire and forget. Almost every structure pings you on map now... so much for the little groups, better go and join the blob... WvW - Big Brother is watching you.

    Ha, I remember the first few weeks after mega servers, which is one of the WORST things to happen to WvW, were people map chatting in PvE for people to help Garri, and lots of other people in map telling them to pound sand because it was people from all sorts of other servers, and such was the death of people caring and server pride. It was great to do these callouts back in the day and have an instant map queue to come save Garri, hell with time to cap these days, it wouldn't work, as they would be on lord before the first person ported into the BL.

    And without megaservers PvE would have been dead many years ago and WvW along with it. I still remember the time just before megaservers - running around on nearly empty maps unable to do any major event simply because the population had dropped that much from launch.

    It was only a matter of time until critical mass would be reached. It had to be done and it kept GW2 going.

    gaggle - /ˈɡaɡ(ə)l/ - noun
    A disorderly group of Asura.
    "The gaggle of Asura tried to agree on whether a phase-shifted thermonuclear energy matrix was sufficiently powerful for a device capable of heating bread"

  • TinkTinkPOOF.9201TinkTinkPOOF.9201 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Zephyra.4709 said:
    @ TinkTinkPOOF.9201

    Nothing but truth. I remember when you actually had to combo fields for boons or actively scout an objective for the enemy. Let alone pre-megaservers when you had callouts in PvE maps to come help out WvW for your server. Now it's all on auto-pilot mode, fire and forget. Almost every structure pings you on map now... so much for the little groups, better go and join the blob... WvW - Big Brother is watching you.

    Ha, I remember the first few weeks after mega servers, which is one of the WORST things to happen to WvW, were people map chatting in PvE for people to help Garri, and lots of other people in map telling them to pound sand because it was people from all sorts of other servers, and such was the death of people caring and server pride. It was great to do these callouts back in the day and have an instant map queue to come save Garri, hell with time to cap these days, it wouldn't work, as they would be on lord before the first person ported into the BL.

    And without megaservers PvE would have been dead many years ago and WvW along with it. I still remember the time just before megaservers - running around on nearly empty maps unable to do any major event simply because the population had dropped that much from launch.

    It was only a matter of time until critical mass would be reached. It had to be done and it kept GW2 going.

    I still had no problem finding lots of people in WvW, and honestly more people than now on off hours, and I was on a mid tier server. They didn't need mega servers to do this as they could have combined servers, or the lowest population servers could have been given one free transfer to any server that was going to remain. Mega servers was a choice for PvE alone with no thought of impact to WvW.

    "When you power creep the game and make it so that spam gameplay is nearly as effective as deep knowledge and nuance, the quality of players will decrease." -Exedore

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 29, 2019

    @volpenvieh.3201 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Kylden Ar.3724 said:
    Now Blobgate can flip a T3 tower before you can even get defenders to be aware of it.

    You mean the T3 towers which has basicly had perma watchtower on them since tactivators where released? Yeah its real easy to sneak those.

    You must be pretty bad at WvW if you don't know how to open a tower without getting into watchtower range... And as soon as you see the flood of red dots running inside it's mostly already too late.

    ... I have literally never seen a commander capable of hiding his zerg while fiddling around with "secretive" sieges. They walk up to the door slap down 6-8 rams and take it. A treb siege or cata siege from outside balloon range takes alot longer and for the former cost alot more. And if defenders fail to notice that 50+ are on the border taking their buffer camps/towers objectives well then it doesnt matter how fast they then take major objectives, defenders have already lost.

    gaggle - /ˈɡaɡ(ə)l/ - noun
    A disorderly group of Asura.
    "The gaggle of Asura tried to agree on whether a phase-shifted thermonuclear energy matrix was sufficiently powerful for a device capable of heating bread"

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 31, 2019

    @Nora.9207 said:
    Unless you are agreeing with us - that new thin walls and gates have changed the gameplay to the point of many people not wanting to take part in wvw anymore because objectives CANNOT be defended

    Oh I most surely do not. Because objectives are defended on a daily basis.

    Does defense always happen as soon as enemies look at the gates? No. Yesterday we had 40ish greens spotted on inner garri (T1), outmanned border. They breeched the outer door before we could act (rams +golems) because of course they timed the outmanned tick. But we called it out, a commander that was just gathering came (like less than 10 in squad) and we clouded them around the lord for maybe 10m before we brought them down.

    Then also yesterday we had 2 guilds on another border plus randoms. We said outer T1 bay approaching T2 is going down, 20ish greens. No one respond. We say inner bay is going down. No one respond. We are 2 people available to defend. We say they are through inner. 5 minutes or so from first call, they cap it... with one of the guilds failing to enter the south door.

    Just because people have the reaction time of a soggy banana doesnt mean the objectives are broken. If either of these scenarios arent easily recognizable and could swing either way in defense I also question whether you play WvW. Arguing that you shouldnt need to be active to play WvW is about as reasonable as arguing that you need to do too much PvE for certain PvE collections.

    gaggle - /ˈɡaɡ(ə)l/ - noun
    A disorderly group of Asura.
    "The gaggle of Asura tried to agree on whether a phase-shifted thermonuclear energy matrix was sufficiently powerful for a device capable of heating bread"

  • Svarty.8019Svarty.8019 Member ✭✭✭✭

    ... still waiting for information on the rest of the walls change ... Can we please have an update, Raymond? Ben? Anybody?

    This post contains my opinion.

  • Svarty.8019Svarty.8019 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Raymond mentioned it again last week... or was it the week before? Anyway, I just wanted you to know that I'm still thinking of you. Here is the original quote:

    43 mins into this video... https://twitch.tv/videos/402656725

    "time to entry is something that we're really trying to adjust because we think the fun is trying to push back the attack and then once everyone's inside and able to fight, that's where a lot of the fun begins"

    This post contains my opinion.

  • LetoII.3782LetoII.3782 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 8, 2019

    @XenesisII.1540 said:
    getting your stuff run over by t1 blobs isn't "fun".

    Yet oddly, therein lies most of the gameplay. PPT has never been about fights and blobbing has never been about good gameplay. The most successful servers hardly see a good fight. In fact, fighting players is mostly counterproductive.

    [HUNT] the predatory instinct

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @LetoII.3782 said:

    @XenesisII.1540 said:
    getting your stuff run over by t1 blobs isn't "fun".

    Yet oddly, therein lies most of the gameplay. PPT has never been about fights and blobbing has never been about good gameplay. The most successful servers hardly see a good fight. In fact, fighting players is mostly counterproductive.

    Which is inherently true. Problem is, there is no other option with WvW stats for smaller engagements that are geared towards the fight.

    5’s
    10’s
    15’s or bigger
    Hell even 2’s.

    So people try to create their own within the confines of others that wish for a different experience.

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • Svarty.8019Svarty.8019 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It's about six months since Tier 2 and 3 walls were nerfed. I wonder if we can get an update on the progress of the rest of this project, please?

    This post contains my opinion.

  • Mil.3562Mil.3562 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Don't worry. Whenever there are calls to nerf something, ANet's Nerf Team welcomes them with open arms and eventually they will be nerfed deep into the ground... and beyond.

    But if you ask for a buff or improvement or fun in this game... Gooood luck.

  • Luranni.9470Luranni.9470 Member ✭✭✭

    I've been wondering about this too. Yet another "second part" that never happens.

  • L A T I O N.8923L A T I O N.8923 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Svarty.8019 said:
    Raymond mentioned it again last week... or was it the week before? Anyway, I just wanted you to know that I'm still thinking of you. Here is the original quote:

    43 mins into this video... https://twitch.tv/videos/402656725

    "time to entry is something that we're really trying to adjust because we think the fun is trying to push back the attack and then once everyone's inside and able to fight, that's where a lot of the fun begins"

    Best thing on this matter is adjust siegecap by 1 piece and 50% on range since IT nerves Both attackers and defenders, buffing gate health can Just bring on another siege wars

  • Sviel.7493Sviel.7493 Member ✭✭✭

    I'm really curious as to what they're doing here. I missed the announcement (if there was one?) about the first part, though I did notice that wall health was lower. 6 months is a long time--what could they possible have in store that can't even be mentioned in that time frame?

    Also, apparently they don't have any fun fighting to open structures...which is not a great look when designing a territory control game. They should seriously consider hiring a non-zergling...

  • Svarty.8019Svarty.8019 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 9, 2021

    @Sviel.7493 said:
    I'm really curious as to what they're doing here. I missed the announcement (if there was one?) about the first part, though I did notice that wall health was lower. 6 months is a long time--what could they possible have in store that can't even be mentioned in that time frame?

    Also, apparently they don't have any fun fighting to open structures...which is not a great look when designing a territory control game. They should seriously consider hiring [someone who knows how the territory control game works]

    I've edited your quote, so that an Arenanet employee could read it more clearly.

    I concur with your opinion and would very much like to see what would happen if such an employee were to appear.

    It seems to me that there are many things that could be tried in terms of wall adjustments in order to make the capturing process more interesting. I believe we're currently in a situation where the game favours a specific types of attacker (giant group, aka zerg) - especially now that pulls and other crowd control abilities are way more common than their counters (such as Stability).

    The knock-on effect is that the traditional counters to siege, i.e. disablers and counter-siege are themselves death-traps - countering big groups is now too difficult.

    I posit that Just because you bring a giant group, doesn't NECESSARILY mean you should get a free cap (effortless capture). -we're losing players because it appears that Arenanet don't agree.

    Why bother trying to defend anymore?

    This post contains my opinion.

  • Valelutra.9128Valelutra.9128 Member ✭✭✭

    wait do I smell more forgotten future plans?

  • God.2708God.2708 Member ✭✭✭

    @Svarty.8019 said:

    @Sviel.7493 said:
    I'm really curious as to what they're doing here. I missed the announcement (if there was one?) about the first part, though I did notice that wall health was lower. 6 months is a long time--what could they possible have in store that can't even be mentioned in that time frame?

    Also, apparently they don't have any fun fighting to open structures...which is not a great look when designing a territory control game. They should seriously consider hiring [someone who knows how the territory control game works]

    I've edited your quote, so that an Arenanet employee could read it more clearly.

    I concur with your opinion and would very much like to see what would happen if such an employee were to appear.

    It seems to me that there are many things that could be tried in terms of wall adjustments in order to make the capturing process more interesting. I believe we're currently in a situation where the game favours a specific types of attacker (giant group, aka zerg) - especially now that pulls and other crowd control abilities are way more common than their counters (such as Stability).

    The knock-on effect is that the traditional counters to siege, i.e. disablers and counter-siege are themselves death-traps - countering big groups is now too difficult.

    I posit that Just because you bring a giant group, doesn't NECESSARILY mean you should get a free cap (effortless capture). -we're losing players because it appears that Arenanet don't agree.

    Why bother trying to defend anymore?

    Generally if you want to counter a big group, you should bring a big group of your own.

    If you can't be bothered to cohesively work together to stop the enemy, you deserve to lose the structure.

    If you don't have enough people to form a big group, that is a different problem that doesn't have to do with wall health or territory control.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Svarty.8019 said:
    I've edited your quote, so that an Arenanet employee could read it more clearly.

    If an Anet employee hasnt read it in 2 years, why would they want to read it more clearly now?

    gaggle - /ˈɡaɡ(ə)l/ - noun
    A disorderly group of Asura.
    "The gaggle of Asura tried to agree on whether a phase-shifted thermonuclear energy matrix was sufficiently powerful for a device capable of heating bread"

  • As much as I like this game mode (wvw only) for many years, I stopped pve at HoT. There’s just no point to bash your head against the wall of silence regarding meaningful changes to our favoured game mode anymore. I salute those who try, but there’s other things to potentially spend your money and more importantly time on.

    There will always be more profit in mass pve modes, events etc so that’s where resources go. And tbh after a few weeks I don’t really miss it as all but a few guildies and friends have long since left for other (not necessarily) greener pastures.

  • Svarty.8019Svarty.8019 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Svarty.8019 said:
    I've edited your quote, so that an Arenanet employee could read it more clearly.

    If an Anet employee hasnt read it in 2 years, why would they want to read it more clearly now?

    Without any acknowledgement whatsoever, we can only assume that it was too opaque for said people to comprehend the first time around.

    This post contains my opinion.