If Tyria were a real place... would Elonian griffons be the only rideable griffon variety?

This is something I would like a developer to comment on. Can other griffons be used like mount, or are the Elonian griffons, lore-wise, the only griffons that could potentially be used as such? Are no other griffons useable as a mount at all even though ogres, and possibly rangers (due to their capabilities of being able to tame things such as bears, saurians, plant creatures, wyverns, etc. to the point of companionship) have the potential to tame them?

A few people I know have been arguing about if other griffons could logically be used as mounts as well vs the Elonian griffons being the only ones. Once again, this is not being asked from a mechanics standpoint. This is being asked purely from the standpoint of someone who likes to imagine these things as if Tyria was a real place. :)

Arn't other griffons WAY smaller in comparison? Except maybe for champions...

I think the other griffins are roughly half the size of the mounts, no counting, of course, the way vets and champs are sized up. I've never seen the larger size of vet and champ mobs as a "lore" thing though, and always assumed it was there for gameplay convenience and visual readbility, kinda like the glowy effect on elites in GW1.

I'm not a developer (and it's unlikely you'll get an answer from one) but I could see it going either way.

The griffon mount we currently have access to, like all GW2 mounts, is not a wild animal - it comes from a ranch where it's been bred and trained from birth by humans. I'm not sure of the history but it's possible they've been domesticated - kept in captivity for several generations and selectively bred to have traits which make them better suited to being mounts (like less likely to kill their rider).

That would explain the size difference and the unique appearance. But that could also just be what this variety of griffon looks like.

It could be that it's not possible to tame a wild griffon to use as a mount. Even for a ranger - there's a big difference between convincing an animal to follow you and not attack you while otherwise doing what it does naturally and convincing one to let you sit on it and order it around. Alternatively it could be that the griffons are simply tamed and having learned the technique from the Elonians we can now go out and tame other griffons to use as mounts.

Or there could be a middle ground - maybe you have to take a wild griffon egg and hatch it yourself and raise the chick from birth, but you will then be able to ride that griffon rather than having to spend several generations breeding them first.

I suspect the answer will depend on if they want to make other types of griffon available in future, and how they're obtained. If they come from the gem store they may well have no explanation at all (like all the different gliders...not that there was much explanation for the default glider either), if they're available in-game but are simply purchased with gold or other currencies then they'll probably come from other griffon ranches. If they want to make it an achievement or a collection or something similar then we'll probably learn how to tame our own griffons and go out and find them.

I've assumed that the Veterans and the griffons like the ones from the hero points such as Razorwing could be considered to be full sized adult griffons.

@PopeUrban.2578 said:I think the other griffins are roughly half the size of the mounts, no counting, of course, the way vets and champs are sized up. I've never seen the larger size of vet and champ mobs as a "lore" thing though, and always assumed it was there for gameplay convenience and visual readbility, kinda like the glowy effect on elites in GW1.

if that were the case then humanoid sizes would be scaled up too, and centaurs, etc, but they aren't. obviously a champion cave troll who's ginormous is going to be more of a threat than one that's puny. any thing that is upscaled seems like it'd fit lore fine.

To back up what Danikat said, there's a significant difference between a "tame" animal and a "domesticated" animal. Rangers and Ogres "tame" animals, which is to cause wild animals to be safe/useful to humans, but mostly by doing things the animals already do, like attack prey. "domesticated" animals are bred over many generations to provide useful functions that are distinct from their natural behaviors, like to allow humans to ride them. I'm pretty sure that mechanically a human could ride a lion or tiger, but even in circus acts I don't think this is typically done. Bears, maybe. Anyway, truly wild animals, even if raised from young to be used by humans, have limits to how "comfortable" they can be around humans.

Here's an interesting video on the subject by Discovery, btw.

@Xbon.9086 said:

@PopeUrban.2578 said:I think the other griffins are roughly half the size of the mounts, no counting, of course, the way vets and champs are sized up. I've never seen the larger size of vet and champ mobs as a "lore" thing though, and always assumed it was there for gameplay convenience and visual readbility, kinda like the glowy effect on elites in GW1.

Humanoids ARE scaled up, champion asuras for example are way bigger than norn, and look at the bandit bosses from the current events, they're massive. No way that that is fitting in the lore.

If this were real, the Elonian Griffins would be the smallest because they live in a hot dessert. There would also be far fewer of them.

Everyone would also be using the same magic technology the Asura use because there is no reason why the other species wouldn't be able to build their own magic technology.

To go off on what Ohoni brought up, think about horses. There's your standard domesticated ones that have been bred for thousands of years to cater to human wants/needs, to have the right personality, and to be able to bond with humans. One specific example is draft horses were bred to be extremely chill because you don't want an animal that big and strong to be flighty, especially as horses are prey animals and will freak out over nothing. Literally. So domesticated horses, you can ride.

You can also ride mustangs. It takes work to get them human friendly and not freak out with a saddle (and some individuals won't allow a rider period), but mustangs are just feral domesticated horses. They still have all that breeding to make them ideal for human riding and use, and several generations of being feral can't erase that.

But zebras? They're wild animals, and though they look like a horse, they aren't a horse. Some can be tamed, some can even be taught to carry a rider, but most can't. At most they'll tolerate human presence because they're tame, not domesticated. Zebras can and will go to injure or kill people it sees as a threat because there's not thousands of years to breed away from that, and in fact being aggressive is strengthened because it helps with survival.

So think about the griffons that way. The griffon that's a mount would have been bred specifically to allow humans (and other races) to be able to safely ride it, as well as be strong and sound enough to be able to run and fly with a rider on its back. All the other griffons we've come across are wild, with no selective breeding. Some ogres and rangers may be able to tame them, but taming =/= domestication. And you sure as heck wouldn't want to sit on -- let alone ride -- something that may decide it wants to remove you for any little reason. Or no reason in particular.

And with griffons being predators, you also want to breed well away from them seeing riders and handlers as food. Think about dogs and wolves. We've spent tens of thousands of years breeding dogs to not see people as food, even though many are more than capable of killing us. But wolves? Even tame wolves you've raised since they were pups can't be fully trusted, since the instinct to kill is still there. Our griffon mounts are way bigger than dogs, so it wouldn't be a stretch at all to suggest they're really dang chill, sort of like a predatory version of draft horses I mentioned earlier.

There's also stuff about the specifics of breeding and how long it takes them to reproduce, but I've probably rambled on way too much already.