Ranger changes May 28th (Shouts) — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Ranger changes May 28th (Shouts)

Dragana.1497Dragana.1497 Member ✭✭✭
edited May 28, 2019 in Ranger

Rangers' shouts have always been significantly different from what standard shouts are, as they've largely been focused on interplay with your pet rather than bolstering your allies. As such, ranger shout skills have been reclassified as command skills rather than shout skills. They're keeping their voice callouts and all their pre-existing functionality, but they won't be affected by the Rune of the Trooper or Rune of the Reaper.

  • Resounding Timbre: This trait now affects command skills rather than shout skills.
  • Entangle: Fixed a bug that caused this skill to inflict vulnerability and display a lower immobilization than intended. Entangle will correctly display its 2 seconds per pulse immobilization duration, and it will no longer inflict vulnerability.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/77925/game-update-notes-may-28-2019#latest

"I'm not quite what I thought I was but then again I'm maybe more"

<1

Comments

  • Durzlla.6295Durzlla.6295 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I have a feeling "Commands" are going to be a type of skill for an espec or they want to give rangers shouts... but either way it'd be nice if we could for the love of god get a Resounding Timbre nerf reversal in PvP now that they don't even have the potential to clear conditions.

    "But my children sing to me. Listen. They sing dark, delicious notes about power and family. As their mother, I have to grant them their wish."

  • Ashkew.6584Ashkew.6584 Member ✭✭

    so basicly nerf to "shouts" and losing the (garbage) condi cleanse some builds used

  • Sandzibar.5134Sandzibar.5134 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 3, 2019

    kitten is a command skill?

    the link on the wiki for resounding timber for commands goes to a number of guardian skills. this is now updated to list the ranger "commands".

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Resounding_Timbre

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Command

  • DemonSeed.3528DemonSeed.3528 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Are we going to get a rune that synergizes with this new command skill? I got a build or two that just got killed by this change XD

  • matthewr.3980matthewr.3980 Member ✭✭

    I used Runes of the Trooper specifically with my Ranger because of his shouts. You've now removed that functionality. What compensation does my character get for an unanticipated core change? You already made runes so much more expensive to craft. I'm very upset.

  • Sandzibar.5134Sandzibar.5134 Member ✭✭✭

    @matthewr.3980 said:
    I used Runes of the Trooper specifically with my Ranger because of his shouts. You've now removed that functionality. What compensation does my character get for an unanticipated core change? You already made runes so much more expensive to craft. I'm very upset.

    You wont get anything Im afraid duder.

  • beatthedown.2651beatthedown.2651 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ashkew.6584 said:
    so basicly nerf to "shouts" and losing the (garbage) condi cleanse some builds used

    Finally the highly requested sic em nerfs <3

  • matthewr.3980matthewr.3980 Member ✭✭

    Rangers should at least get a trait that offers the same functionality of condition removal on shout/command skill use.

  • @matthewr.3980 said:
    Rangers should at least get a trait that offers the same functionality of condition removal on shout/command skill use.

    I don't think they should, that ability came from a rune set in the first place, why would we get an extra benefit out of this change when the other classes don't? It's not like we do not have better condi cleanses ourselves as rangers or anything. Would agree with some new rune that interacts with said new command skill type, but i get the feeling that this change was not only due to making sense when it comes to its type name but also due to future content ahead like the next elite specs.

  • Buuuh! Bad change! :angry:
    I thought, this games balance was about synergy. Now, they removed a big one. Do we not see on the basis of the Revenant, how bad non-synergy effects are for a profession?
    And it took so long for all Ranger shouts, to finally work with this rune!

  • @Sandzibar.5134 said:
    kitten is a command skill?

    the link on the wiki for resounding timber for commands goes to a number of guardian skills.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Resounding_Timbre

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Command

    It’s a new skill type they’re adding. Currently only exists on rangers. Wiki has not been updated yet because the patch dropped like an hour ago.

  • Eurantien.4632Eurantien.4632 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 28, 2019

    Noooooooooooo!!!!!! What the kitten. How the hell are we supposed to Condi clear without Wilderness Survival!?!! Idiots.

    RIP diversity. Now we are all pidgeon-holed into Wilderness Survival even more. kitten that broken traitline. (For PvP).

  • matthewr.3980matthewr.3980 Member ✭✭

    I'll be honest, I didn't know of this trait in Wilderness Survival called Wilderness Knowledge. I'll miss using Shouts but at least Survival Skills can be used to remove conditions.

  • We should shout out and make them reverse this change! Just like they tried to change Smokescale.
    Those skills were shouts, they are and they will be shouts!

  • Redemer.2601Redemer.2601 Member ✭✭

    search and rescue is still classed as a shout but I think that only because they missed it xD

  • So everyone complaining about losing a synergy that removes a singular condition on a shout, forgetting things such as bear stance, healing spring, Druid clear, weapon swap sigils, resistance from pets, all on top on wilderness survival synergy?

  • jcbroe.4329jcbroe.4329 Member ✭✭✭

    @Eurantien.4632 said:
    Noooooooooooo!!!!!! What the kitten. How the hell are we supposed to Condi clear without Wilderness Survival!?!! Idiots.

    RIP diversity. Now we are all pidgeon-holed into Wilderness Survival even more. kitten that broken traitline. (For PvP).

    What's scarier is that this change very likely is not a change that is just happening out of the blue, and Ranger changes are very rarely ever good changes.

    Jroh | Former SOAC Ranger Podcaster | Top 100 PvP
    https://www.youtube.com/user/JRoeboat
    www.twitch.tv/itsJROH

  • CETheLucid.3964CETheLucid.3964 Member ✭✭✭

    Eh. Fair. Not so secret builds. It was going to happen eventually. People talk too much. Pretty crazy solution though. I'm curious if this is a prelude to new skills or just a new classification for ranger specific shouts? Could go either way.

  • kappa.2036kappa.2036 Member ✭✭✭

    The changes makes sense. Ranger's shouts were mostly focused on interplay with your pet rather than buffing allies/debuffing enemies.
    Maybe we will get a full skillset of shouts with the next E-spec to compensate? We'll see.

  • @Eurantien.4632 said:

    @AlexndrTheGreat.8310 said:
    So everyone complaining about losing a synergy that removes a singular condition on a shout, forgetting things such as bear stance, healing spring, Druid clear, weapon swap sigils, resistance from pets, all on top on wilderness survival synergy?

    For PvP Druid isn't viable. Core isn't really viable. Because the pet dies too easily with the amount of damage in the game (especially with the stat nerf on Druid). The problem is build diversity and viability. To be viable we need some Condi clear, you can't have none and expect to be in plat 2 or maybe even play 1. That means we can run what you say or wilderness survival. This is where diversity comes into play too...

    If I run wilderness survival, I get Condi clear and survival skills and get rugged growth and arguably rangers best heal, troll ungüent, due to the sustain it gives. The sustain from WS is amazing.

    On the other hand, If i want to run without survival skills and WS. Then I have bear stance, healing spring, evasive purity, or something like leadership runes, and signet of renewal.

    These two heals simply do not provide enough healing to sustain in the current game with the amount of damages out there. If I need to save my heal for Condi clear... i am in trouble. That means If i want to sustain and use these heals? I need WS for rugged growth... which nullifies the point in using these heals. +healing spring doesn't cleanse fast enough. A scourge can insta put 4 condis on you, now what? You cant afford to stay in that area in your spring in PvP.

    Runes and signet of renewal? Both have too high cool downs (60s) to be able to be effective for Condi clear. There just too much reapplication for that to be viable. + signet of renewal can easily fail, or kitten up your merge and unmerge since it doesn't work while merged.

    Evasive purity? Not enough.

    Why is this a big deal? Shouts gave just enough reactive Condi clear that you could get by. It wasn't optimal but it was viable. Something that these other cleanses just aren't.

    What this means?
    Now for PvP we have to run soulbeast. We have to run wilderness survival. Then what? The next traitline with the most synergy is beastmastery. We now have one build. With shouts... we could at least run MM or NM instead of WS.

    So that's the problem. Changing this kills build diversity because other cleanse skills arent good enough to compensate for this change. We should not be forced to run wilderness survival.

    So you’re telling me a single rune build that allows you to cleanse one condition per skill is keeping these builds afloat? Really? I find this quite hard to believe.

  • Eurantien.4632Eurantien.4632 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 28, 2019

    @AlexndrTheGreat.8310 said:

    @Eurantien.4632 said:

    @AlexndrTheGreat.8310 said:
    So everyone complaining about losing a synergy that removes a singular condition on a shout, forgetting things such as bear stance, healing spring, Druid clear, weapon swap sigils, resistance from pets, all on top on wilderness survival synergy?

    For PvP Druid isn't viable. Core isn't really viable. Because the pet dies too easily with the amount of damage in the game (especially with the stat nerf on Druid). The problem is build diversity and viability. To be viable we need some Condi clear, you can't have none and expect to be in plat 2 or maybe even play 1. That means we can run what you say or wilderness survival. This is where diversity comes into play too...

    If I run wilderness survival, I get Condi clear and survival skills and get rugged growth and arguably rangers best heal, troll ungüent, due to the sustain it gives. The sustain from WS is amazing.

    On the other hand, If i want to run without survival skills and WS. Then I have bear stance, healing spring, evasive purity, or something like leadership runes, and signet of renewal.

    These two heals simply do not provide enough healing to sustain in the current game with the amount of damages out there. If I need to save my heal for Condi clear... i am in trouble. That means If i want to sustain and use these heals? I need WS for rugged growth... which nullifies the point in using these heals. +healing spring doesn't cleanse fast enough. A scourge can insta put 4 condis on you, now what? You cant afford to stay in that area in your spring in PvP.

    Runes and signet of renewal? Both have too high cool downs (60s) to be able to be effective for Condi clear. There just too much reapplication for that to be viable. + signet of renewal can easily fail, or kitten up your merge and unmerge since it doesn't work while merged.

    Evasive purity? Not enough.

    Why is this a big deal? Shouts gave just enough reactive Condi clear that you could get by. It wasn't optimal but it was viable. Something that these other cleanses just aren't.

    What this means?
    Now for PvP we have to run soulbeast. We have to run wilderness survival. Then what? The next traitline with the most synergy is beastmastery. We now have one build. With shouts... we could at least run MM or NM instead of WS.

    So that's the problem. Changing this kills build diversity because other cleanse skills arent good enough to compensate for this change. We should not be forced to run wilderness survival.

    So you’re telling me a single rune build that allows you to cleanse one condition per skill is keeping these builds afloat? Really? I find this quite hard to believe.

    Some of them, yes. Here's why, if I run heal, sic em, and protect me that is 3 condis cleared every about 24s. I also get my elite. If a random burn guard jumps me I can survive by actively reacting with a cleanse. If a reaper chills me, same thing. If a mesmer condi loads me up maybe I can cleanse the confusion or torment and live and get away. If i need to, i can spam all 3 or 4 depending on whats available to get the cleanse i need. It's not optimal for me to run shouts. But it can work because im trading a severe weakness to condis for more dmg by dropping WS. Without cleanse, any of these things and more would kill me. Sigils aren't enough. Runes for elite cleanse aren't enough. And like I said the other heal options aren't enough sustain. So dropping soldier rune for ranger makes anything with condis (even power classes) much more likely to kill me as even cripple becomes dangerous now.

    I solo queued to rank 26 last season without WS... that would have been significantly harder and maybe even impossible without soldier runes.

    Again, this worked because of a trade off. I dropped the amazing sustainability of WS for the extra damage of MM. Even then MM is still lackluster in comparison and something that can be bolstered with Sic Em and We Heal as One. Sic Em with the bonus damage that is pretty much meta for ranger atm and We Heal as One because of the might stacking - both of these adding even more damage to MM. On top of that, I was able to synergize well the with the utility of Protect Me and interrupt/CC traits. Nevertheless, these skills are a little lackluster (besides sic em) without these synergies. Their synergy with soldier runes (and that stats from soldier runes) helped make up for the deficit of giving up WS and their being weaker than survival skills.

    I'll do what I can to see what I can make work... but this is a huge blow to diversity. And I'm extremely disappointed we are getting pigeon-holed even deeper than we already are into WS.

  • Wondrouswall.7169Wondrouswall.7169 Member ✭✭✭

    Rangers' shouts have always been significantly different from what standard shouts are, as they've largely been focused on interplay with your pet rather than bolstering your allies. As such, ranger shout skills have been reclassified as command skills rather than shout skills.

    Really, Anet? Even though the uniqueness of Ranger shouts were using the pet as part of supporting allies when Irenio went through the trouble of updating most of them to reflect this.

    Search & Rescue sending the pet to revive allies, Protect Me also breaking stuns for nearby allies while redirecting an attacker's focus to alleviate pressure, and Guard using the pet to redirect a portion of damage off allies wasn't bolstering allies?

    So, once again, instead of doing the right thing and putting in the work to revamp Strength of the Pack, Heal as One, and Sic 'Em to be in line with the design philosophy of bolstering allies while keeping the flavor of Ranger by incorporating the pet as part of delivering this support, you took the easy way out and re-categorized them while reducing build diversity.

    By the way, Stance sharing is a thing. Let that sink it. Such kittens.

    PET PRECISION & DPS DATA (DPS outdated)
    Back in Black... Desert Online.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Unnecessary.

  • EnderzShadow.2506EnderzShadow.2506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Hoping this makes sense with future patches/changes. Nothing ever does.

    -2 patches in a row Ranger gets these changes.
    First with Druid pet
    and now with Shouts.

    mhm, ok, sure, whatever you say, no after you, I insist, no really, please, be my guest,

  • Substance E.4852Substance E.4852 Member ✭✭✭

    An entirely pointless nerf for quasi lore reasons

    Thank you Anet, very cool!

  • Substance E.4852Substance E.4852 Member ✭✭✭

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:
    Hoping this makes sense with future patches/changes. Nothing ever does.

    -2 patches in a row Ranger gets these changes.
    First with Druid pet
    and now with Shouts.

    It won't. The framing they're giving means our shouts are now special pet reliant versions. Unless necro is getting some minion master spec that boosts their own minions with "commands" this isn't new skill type for a new Espec wave.

    The alternative is we get regular shouts with the next Espec which sounds incredibly boring and not even worth buying.

  • Miellyn.6847Miellyn.6847 Member ✭✭✭

    Most likely just the preparation of a new Elite Specialisation.

    But druid needs finally buffs for PvP. Just put Celestial Shadow and Druid's Clarity in master traits instead of one being adapt trait and almost all complains from early HoT and after are fixed. Then we can buff accordingly. Also buffs for all pets as druid pets are weaker anyway now.

  • Euthymias.7984Euthymias.7984 Member ✭✭✭

    This change seems unnecessary when there's nothing to make use of the new skill archetype....
    It could have waited until such a time if they really wanted to do this.

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Hope they will change the ranger runes subsequently to this. So you get a specific bonus when using a command.
    This could also tie into future necro e-specs.
    I just hope we don't get shouts as a new utility. That would be lame.

  • LughLongArm.5460LughLongArm.5460 Member ✭✭✭

    @Eurantien.4632 said:

    @AlexndrTheGreat.8310 said:

    @Eurantien.4632 said:

    @AlexndrTheGreat.8310 said:
    So everyone complaining about losing a synergy that removes a singular condition on a shout, forgetting things such as bear stance, healing spring, Druid clear, weapon swap sigils, resistance from pets, all on top on wilderness survival synergy?

    For PvP Druid isn't viable. Core isn't really viable. Because the pet dies too easily with the amount of damage in the game (especially with the stat nerf on Druid). The problem is build diversity and viability. To be viable we need some Condi clear, you can't have none and expect to be in plat 2 or maybe even play 1. That means we can run what you say or wilderness survival. This is where diversity comes into play too...

    If I run wilderness survival, I get Condi clear and survival skills and get rugged growth and arguably rangers best heal, troll ungüent, due to the sustain it gives. The sustain from WS is amazing.

    On the other hand, If i want to run without survival skills and WS. Then I have bear stance, healing spring, evasive purity, or something like leadership runes, and signet of renewal.

    These two heals simply do not provide enough healing to sustain in the current game with the amount of damages out there. If I need to save my heal for Condi clear... i am in trouble. That means If i want to sustain and use these heals? I need WS for rugged growth... which nullifies the point in using these heals. +healing spring doesn't cleanse fast enough. A scourge can insta put 4 condis on you, now what? You cant afford to stay in that area in your spring in PvP.

    Runes and signet of renewal? Both have too high cool downs (60s) to be able to be effective for Condi clear. There just too much reapplication for that to be viable. + signet of renewal can easily fail, or kitten up your merge and unmerge since it doesn't work while merged.

    Evasive purity? Not enough.

    Why is this a big deal? Shouts gave just enough reactive Condi clear that you could get by. It wasn't optimal but it was viable. Something that these other cleanses just aren't.

    What this means?
    Now for PvP we have to run soulbeast. We have to run wilderness survival. Then what? The next traitline with the most synergy is beastmastery. We now have one build. With shouts... we could at least run MM or NM instead of WS.

    So that's the problem. Changing this kills build diversity because other cleanse skills arent good enough to compensate for this change. We should not be forced to run wilderness survival.

    So you’re telling me a single rune build that allows you to cleanse one condition per skill is keeping these builds afloat? Really? I find this quite hard to believe.

    Some of them, yes. Here's why, if I run heal, sic em, and protect me that is 3 condis cleared every about 24s. I also get my elite. If a random burn guard jumps me I can survive by actively reacting with a cleanse. If a reaper chills me, same thing. If a mesmer condi loads me up maybe I can cleanse the confusion or torment and live and get away. If i need to, i can spam all 3 or 4 depending on whats available to get the cleanse i need. It's not optimal for me to run shouts. But it can work because im trading a severe weakness to condis for more dmg by dropping WS. Without cleanse, any of these things and more would kill me. Sigils aren't enough. Runes for elite cleanse aren't enough. And like I said the other heal options aren't enough sustain. So dropping soldier rune for ranger makes anything with condis (even power classes) much more likely to kill me as even cripple becomes dangerous now.

    I solo queued to rank 26 last season without WS... that would have been significantly harder and maybe even impossible without soldier runes.

    Again, this worked because of a trade off. I dropped the amazing sustainability of WS for the extra damage of MM. Even then MM is still lackluster in comparison and something that can be bolstered with Sic Em and We Heal as One. Sic Em with the bonus damage that is pretty much meta for ranger atm and We Heal as One because of the might stacking - both of these adding even more damage to MM. On top of that, I was able to synergize well the with the utility of Protect Me and interrupt/CC traits. Nevertheless, these skills are a little lackluster (besides sic em) without these synergies. Their synergy with soldier runes (and that stats from soldier runes) helped make up for the deficit of giving up WS and their being weaker than survival skills.

    I'll do what I can to see what I can make work... but this is a huge blow to diversity. And I'm extremely disappointed we are getting pigeon-holed even deeper than we already are into WS.

    I used soldier runes as the main condi clear on my dazer druid build(MM/BM/Druid). The build suffered many nerfs over time, and I kept on adjusting. No Adjustment room left, RIP . No excuse to this change other than they are developing a new specialization or something that involves shouts.

  • aymnad.9023aymnad.9023 Member ✭✭
    edited May 29, 2019

    Some interactions are now missing (I was only using it it during core days and sometimes druid in pvp) but I am more curious about the future runes which will affect commands.
    I think the theme of "command" will fit nicely necro or revenant. Too bad I expect a 1 year period before seeing what they do with that :anguished:

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @aymnad.9023 said:
    I think the theme of "command" will fit nicely necro or revenant. Too bad I expect a 1 year period before seeing what they do with that :anguished:

    Necromancer? Maybe. Revenant? Their skills ain't "classified".

    I'd say that mesmers would have huge potential (100% chance to be OP) with commands affecting their clones. Engineer could give command to some mechanical thing (yeah, another minion spec...). Elementalist could probably end up as a summoner with an elemental minion and some command which would be somehow in line with an already existing gameplay involving glyphs. Guardian could also create an minion out of their "light" element affinity.

    So all in all from my point of view mesmer, elementalist, (guardian), engineer and necromancer could end up with an e-spec involving "commands".

  • moonstarmac.4603moonstarmac.4603 Member ✭✭✭

    @Sandzibar.5134 said:
    kitten is a command skill?

    the link on the wiki for resounding timber for commands goes to a number of guardian skills.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Resounding_Timbre

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Command

    So essentially all Ranger skills that used to be classified as shouts are now commands. Makes sense as they are pet command skills. And here I was thinking my entire build was going to get ripped.

    Wolf Moonstar
    Dragon Council, Third Seat: Jade Sea Haven (Jade) of Ehmry Bay
    My Ryzen Rig

  • Soilder.3607Soilder.3607 Member ✭✭✭

    I haven't touched this game since December but anyone serious about condition removal used Runes of the Revenant or Runes of Resistance. Runes of the Trooper have not been meta for any content for years.

    Removing one condition at a time has not been viable since pre-HoT. All the whining in this thread is standard fare whenever Anet updates ranger, hence why they've learned to ignore this forum.

  • LughLongArm.5460LughLongArm.5460 Member ✭✭✭

    @Soilder.3607 said:
    I haven't touched this game since December but anyone serious about condition removal used Runes of the Revenant or Runes of Resistance. Runes of the Trooper have not been meta for any content for years.

    Removing one condition at a time has not been viable since pre-HoT. All the whining in this thread is standard fare whenever Anet updates ranger, hence why they've learned to ignore this forum.

    Ya, it is much better to take the opinion of someone who is not even playing the game.
    Trooper runes was not meta but it was great for some niche builds. It worked great on one of my builds. It also got buffed several mouths ago.
    The change had no balance purpose, shouts are a victim for some future development plans, because we don't know what they are we can only react to what we know at the present, Another strange and unnecessary nerf. Hope it will be worth it.

  • Loki.4871Loki.4871 Member ✭✭

    Bit of a strange thing to change perhaps, I hope that rune of the ranger gets tweaked to buff commands down the line, or somesuch.

  • aymnad.9023aymnad.9023 Member ✭✭
    edited May 29, 2019

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @aymnad.9023 said:
    I think the theme of "command" will fit nicely necro or revenant. Too bad I expect a 1 year period before seeing what they do with that :anguished:

    Necromancer? Maybe. Revenant? Their skills ain't "classified".

    I'd say that mesmers would have huge potential (100% chance to be OP) with commands affecting their clones. Engineer could give command to some mechanical thing (yeah, another minion spec...). Elementalist could probably end up as a summoner with an elemental minion and some command which would be somehow in line with an already existing gameplay involving glyphs. Guardian could also create an minion out of their "light" element affinity.

    So all in all from my point of view mesmer, elementalist, (guardian), engineer and necromancer could end up with an e-spec involving "commands".

    Oh right engi can work too ! I thought about mesmers but since they "destroy" the clones I do not see how to make this work without giving them a huge burst. (or maybe give a single long lasting clone ). For guards maybe spirit weapons will enter this categorie or something new.

  • voltaicbore.8012voltaicbore.8012 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 29, 2019

    @Soilder.3607 said:
    I haven't touched this game since December but anyone serious about condition removal used Runes of the Revenant or Runes of Resistance. Runes of the Trooper have not been meta for any content for years.

    Removing one condition at a time has not been viable since pre-HoT. All the whining in this thread is standard fare whenever Anet updates ranger, hence why they've learned to ignore this forum.

    Eurantien (one of the best players in EU, as far as I know) put it best earlier in the thread - Runes of the Soldier are certainly not meta, but you could make it work if you wanted to drop Wilderness Survival. In fact, that cleanse-on-shout was the last remaining workable alternative to WS, and now it's gone... and we get nothing in return. Until this change, I actually switched into Solider runes occasionally in spvp if the enemy team comp looked right for it. Just not possible anymore.

    As for your later point about whining in the ranger subforum, there are times where I'd be inclined to agree, but this is not one of them. There really seems to be a lack of vision about what they want ranger to do, and it shows in a series of plain un-useful and damaging changes that have come non-stop in recent months.

  • DuckDuckBOOM.4097DuckDuckBOOM.4097 Member ✭✭✭

    I really hope that this is a sign that elite specs are coming a lot sooner that I expected. Otherwise, why couldn't they just make this change when the new elite spec came out? If that's not the case, then they thought these runes were so OP for only ranger. I cant believe that.

    @Eurantien.4632 said:

    @AlexndrTheGreat.8310 said:
    So everyone complaining about losing a synergy that removes a singular condition on a shout, forgetting things such as bear stance, healing spring, Druid clear, weapon swap sigils, resistance from pets, all on top on wilderness survival synergy?

    For PvP Druid isn't viable. Core isn't really viable. Because the pet dies too easily with the amount of damage in the game (especially with the stat nerf on Druid). The problem is build diversity and viability. To be viable we need some Condi clear, you can't have none and expect to be in plat 2 or maybe even play 1. That means we can run what you say or wilderness survival. This is where diversity comes into play too...

    If I run wilderness survival, I get Condi clear and survival skills and get rugged growth and arguably rangers best heal, troll ungüent, due to the sustain it gives. The sustain from WS is amazing.

    On the other hand, If i want to run without survival skills and WS. Then I have bear stance, healing spring, evasive purity, or something like leadership runes, and signet of renewal.

    These two heals simply do not provide enough healing to sustain in the current game with the amount of damages out there. If I need to save my heal for Condi clear... i am in trouble. That means If i want to sustain and use these heals? I need WS for rugged growth... which nullifies the point in using these heals. +healing spring doesn't cleanse fast enough. A scourge can insta put 4 condis on you, now what? You cant afford to stay in that area in your spring in PvP.

    Runes and signet of renewal? Both have too high cool downs (60s) to be able to be effective for Condi clear. There just too much reapplication for that to be viable. + signet of renewal can easily fail, or kitten up your merge and unmerge since it doesn't work while merged.

    Evasive purity? Not enough.

    Why is this a big deal? Shouts gave just enough reactive Condi clear that you could get by. It wasn't optimal but it was viable. Something that these other cleanses just aren't.

    What this means?
    Now for PvP we have to run soulbeast. We have to run wilderness survival. Then what? The next traitline with the most synergy is beastmastery. We now have one build. With shouts... we could at least run MM or NM instead of WS.

    So that's the problem. Changing this kills build diversity because other cleanse skills arent good enough to compensate for this change. We should not be forced to run wilderness survival.

    I've been having a lot of success with rune of antitoxin in WvW for condi clear. If a stun break clears taunt or fear, extra condi cleared. Dolyak stance, if it stun breaks a fear or taunt or clears chill, cripple or immob also clears another condi. This works great vs necro condi spikes. Same for merged F3... and as I type I realize that I don't think they are available in PvP =/.

    Only other weird combo I could think of is rune of (any that reduces condi duration), emphatic bond and natural stride. Without WvW food, still probably meh.

    I think I was around plat 1 with just bear and dolyak stance + sigil of escape/cleansing + rune of leadership. Also not traited lighting reflexes vs immob fear etc. That was MM/BM/SB zerker sic'em glass.

    I'm just rambling at this point. I hope you find something that works for you. I've never relied on that combo but this change sucks.

  • Strider.7849Strider.7849 Member ✭✭

    I already don't play my druid anymore except for in fractals - it was my main class forever (check my tagged image!!). Now again they go and nerf it.

    Last patches druid changes made it so we got:

    • Heavy nerf to our pets; damage is somewhat okay when you stack it with 25 stacks of might but they die incredibly fast.
    • Our overall damage makes open world PvE boring - speccing for more damage requires a big investment into it, while losing our ability to heal to any noticeable effect.
    • Glyph of empowerment - less team support on our nerfed damage.
    • New elite Glyph of stars, is really bad. I've tried so hard to make any use of this through both PvE and WvW - it's just unusable.
    • Previous changes to our spirits have made their boons tedious and unreliable - even spamming the spirits on cooldown to keep them near get them instantly wiped as mobs focus them rather than me or my pet.

    Now they nerf a couple extra builds that mostly only druid made use of, with shouts.

    I was optimistic at first, but over time of trying anything to make my druid fun again - it's just simply boring and not as effective anywhere outside of raids and fractals. I've tried and tried and tried, to find any way to make it both effective and fun for me - especially since it's my toon I've got near 100% completion on every single map in the game, I've also got the start of working on legendary armor on him which I now just want a refund for so I can put it towards a new main.

    I'm still trying to find a new main that was as fun as my druid used to be to me; I've made an Elementalist but I'm not sure if it's completely filling my druid void. I'm sorry for any reading this seeing it as "whining", it's just I was attached to that toon and this constant "Yo-Yo" balance that completes changes the feel of characters; sometimes outright destroying them is really pushing me away from the game that I've loved so much.

  • Levetty.1279Levetty.1279 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 29, 2019

    @AlexndrTheGreat.8310 said:

    @Eurantien.4632 said:

    @AlexndrTheGreat.8310 said:
    So everyone complaining about losing a synergy that removes a singular condition on a shout, forgetting things such as bear stance, healing spring, Druid clear, weapon swap sigils, resistance from pets, all on top on wilderness survival synergy?

    For PvP Druid isn't viable. Core isn't really viable. Because the pet dies too easily with the amount of damage in the game (especially with the stat nerf on Druid). The problem is build diversity and viability. To be viable we need some Condi clear, you can't have none and expect to be in plat 2 or maybe even play 1. That means we can run what you say or wilderness survival. This is where diversity comes into play too...

    If I run wilderness survival, I get Condi clear and survival skills and get rugged growth and arguably rangers best heal, troll ungüent, due to the sustain it gives. The sustain from WS is amazing.

    On the other hand, If i want to run without survival skills and WS. Then I have bear stance, healing spring, evasive purity, or something like leadership runes, and signet of renewal.

    These two heals simply do not provide enough healing to sustain in the current game with the amount of damages out there. If I need to save my heal for Condi clear... i am in trouble. That means If i want to sustain and use these heals? I need WS for rugged growth... which nullifies the point in using these heals. +healing spring doesn't cleanse fast enough. A scourge can insta put 4 condis on you, now what? You cant afford to stay in that area in your spring in PvP.

    Runes and signet of renewal? Both have too high cool downs (60s) to be able to be effective for Condi clear. There just too much reapplication for that to be viable. + signet of renewal can easily fail, or kitten up your merge and unmerge since it doesn't work while merged.

    Evasive purity? Not enough.

    Why is this a big deal? Shouts gave just enough reactive Condi clear that you could get by. It wasn't optimal but it was viable. Something that these other cleanses just aren't.

    What this means?
    Now for PvP we have to run soulbeast. We have to run wilderness survival. Then what? The next traitline with the most synergy is beastmastery. We now have one build. With shouts... we could at least run MM or NM instead of WS.

    So that's the problem. Changing this kills build diversity because other cleanse skills arent good enough to compensate for this change. We should not be forced to run wilderness survival.

    So you’re telling me a single rune build that allows you to cleanse one condition per skill is keeping these builds afloat? Really? I find this quite hard to believe.

    .

    @Soilder.3607 said:
    I haven't touched this game since December but anyone serious about condition removal used Runes of the Revenant or Runes of Resistance. Runes of the Trooper have not been meta for any content for years.

    Removing one condition at a time has not been viable since pre-HoT. All the whining in this thread is standard fare whenever Anet updates ranger, hence why they've learned to ignore this forum.

    I'm glad you've come in here to look down at everybody and tell them Anet can do no wrong because you have accidently raised a bigger problem. If this wasn't to nerf a build (which it probably wasn't since trooper runes/shouts were niche nowadays and only used for fun) then the change has no reason, they have wasted resources for literally no reason.

  • Eurantien.4632Eurantien.4632 Member ✭✭✭

    @Soilder.3607 said:
    I haven't touched this game since December but anyone serious about condition removal used Runes of the Revenant or Runes of Resistance. Runes of the Trooper have not been meta for any content for years.

    Removing one condition at a time has not been viable since pre-HoT. All the whining in this thread is standard fare whenever Anet updates ranger, hence why they've learned to ignore this forum.

    You're out of touch. Revenant and resistance were meta because of boon share on boonbeast. Boonbeast isn't meta anymore. Lb/gs is more meta now and there are the WS version and the MM version at high tiers. MM was higher risk for faster kills and required soldier runes for its Condi clear. The range, the extra stealth, the higher damage, and low prevalence of Condi classes allows for the one Condi clears of soldier runes to work again. This nerf kills that build and any others that potentially wanted to move away from WS and that's the problem. Even more of a reliance on WS and less build diversity

  • Xaylin.1860Xaylin.1860 Member ✭✭✭

    @Durzlla.6295 said:
    I have a feeling "Commands" are going to be a type of skill for an espec or they want to give rangers shouts... but either way it'd be nice if we could for the love of god get a Resounding Timbre nerf reversal in PvP now that they don't even have the potential to clear conditions.

    I agree that there must be a reason for this we don't know yet. Otherwise they won't spend time on it.

    Three things I can think of:

    • The next e-spec gets Shouts (as Durzlla said)
    • A different e-spec gets Commands and they thought this category was more fitting for Ranger Shouts
    • They are working on a way to nerf Sic'Em on SB which possibly affected external Shouts

    Or a mixture of this.

    The nerfed interaction with Runes of the Trooper is a pitty but I feel that Rangers got plenty other options for condition removal.

  • EnderzShadow.2506EnderzShadow.2506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Xaylin.1860 said:

    @Durzlla.6295 said:
    I have a feeling "Commands" are going to be a type of skill for an espec or they want to give rangers shouts... but either way it'd be nice if we could for the love of god get a Resounding Timbre nerf reversal in PvP now that they don't even have the potential to clear conditions.

    I agree that there must be a reason for this we don't know yet. Otherwise they won't spend time on it.

    Three things I can think of:

    • The next e-spec gets Shouts (as Durzlla said)
    • A different e-spec gets Commands and they thought this category was more fitting for Ranger Shouts
    • They are working on a way to nerf Sic'Em on SB which possibly affected external Shouts

    Or a mixture of this.

    The nerfed interaction with Runes of the Trooper is a pity but I feel that Rangers have plenty of other options for condition removal.

    -It's not for an upcoming e-spec. Need an expansion for that.

    -It's not to nerf sicem. They can do that without any games.

    If they planned on changing a spec to fit in 'commands' instead of shouts, then why wouldn't they just do this all at once?

    *Maybe New Runes? Or maybe they are changing Runes

    @the bolded part, read Euranteins comments on this.

    mhm, ok, sure, whatever you say, no after you, I insist, no really, please, be my guest,

  • Pedro Sequeira.3198Pedro Sequeira.3198 Member ✭✭
    edited May 29, 2019

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:

    -It's not for an upcoming e-spec. Need an expansion for that.

    Expansion definitely no longer required for this, on their roadmap they restated they will try to add xpac like features on more normal patches such as in LW episodes and whatnot.

  • Xaylin.1860Xaylin.1860 Member ✭✭✭

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:
    @the bolded part, read Euranteins comments on this.

    I disagree on this part. ;)
    Plenty of classes with way worse condition removal even when not picking WS.

  • Soilder.3607Soilder.3607 Member ✭✭✭

    @Eurantien.4632 said:

    @Soilder.3607 said:
    I haven't touched this game since December but anyone serious about condition removal used Runes of the Revenant or Runes of Resistance. Runes of the Trooper have not been meta for any content for years.

    Removing one condition at a time has not been viable since pre-HoT. All the whining in this thread is standard fare whenever Anet updates ranger, hence why they've learned to ignore this forum.

    You're out of touch. Revenant and resistance were meta because of boon share on boonbeast. Boonbeast isn't meta anymore. Lb/gs is more meta now and there are the WS version and the MM version at high tiers. MM was higher risk for faster kills and required soldier runes for its Condi clear. The range, the extra stealth, the higher damage, and low prevalence of Condi classes allows for the one Condi clears of soldier runes to work again. This nerf kills that build and any others that potentially wanted to move away from WS and that's the problem. Even more of a reliance on WS and less build diversity

    No Eurantien, I'm not out of touch. This entire subforum is out of touch.

    Do you people mean to tell me that you don't remember, for the three years after Guild Wars 2 launched, how ranger was one of the buggiest, least desired, and most of all, NOT meta profession for all content in the game? You people seriously forget that?

    And then what happened when Heart of Thorns launched? Druid became supermeta. It was needed in raids, desired in fractals, OP in PvP, the strongest roamer in WvW for a long time, though remaining unviable in zergs.

    And then what happened when Path of Fire launched? Soulbeast was a buggy mess actually. But then it received much needed bugfixing and fine tuning. And then what did it become? Supermeta! OP in PvP, one of the strongest WvW roamers, though again unviable in zergs; Meta in most PvE content as both power and condition.

    This class is NOT the red headed step child accusation that I see thrown around in nearly every balance patch discussion thread. We've received our fair shared of buffs and nerfs that every class has received. But this subforum remains the same, and with every balance patch comes overwhelming negativity, regardless of the rights or wrongs arenanet puts out.

    I have no idea what the hell arenanet is trying to accomplish with this balance change (if it could be called that). But pretending that this minor change "pigeon holes" rangers and "kills viability"? No my friend, that's out of touch.

    I will probably have something to say again in six months.

  • Eurantien.4632Eurantien.4632 Member ✭✭✭

    @Soilder.3607 said:

    @Eurantien.4632 said:

    @Soilder.3607 said:
    I haven't touched this game since December but anyone serious about condition removal used Runes of the Revenant or Runes of Resistance. Runes of the Trooper have not been meta for any content for years.

    Removing one condition at a time has not been viable since pre-HoT. All the whining in this thread is standard fare whenever Anet updates ranger, hence why they've learned to ignore this forum.

    You're out of touch. Revenant and resistance were meta because of boon share on boonbeast. Boonbeast isn't meta anymore. Lb/gs is more meta now and there are the WS version and the MM version at high tiers. MM was higher risk for faster kills and required soldier runes for its Condi clear. The range, the extra stealth, the higher damage, and low prevalence of Condi classes allows for the one Condi clears of soldier runes to work again. This nerf kills that build and any others that potentially wanted to move away from WS and that's the problem. Even more of a reliance on WS and less build diversity

    No Eurantien, I'm not out of touch. This entire subforum is out of touch.

    Do you people mean to tell me that you don't remember, for the three years after Guild Wars 2 launched, how ranger was one of the buggiest, least desired, and most of all, NOT meta profession for all content in the game? You people seriously forget that?

    And then what happened when Heart of Thorns launched? Druid became supermeta. It was needed in raids, desired in fractals, OP in PvP, the strongest roamer in WvW for a long time, though remaining unviable in zergs.

    And then what happened when Path of Fire launched? Soulbeast was a buggy mess actually. But then it received much needed bugfixing and fine tuning. And then what did it become? Supermeta! OP in PvP, one of the strongest WvW roamers, though again unviable in zergs; Meta in most PvE content as both power and condition.

    This class is NOT the red headed step child accusation that I see thrown around in nearly every balance patch discussion thread. We've received our fair shared of buffs and nerfs that every class has received. But this subforum remains the same, and with every balance patch comes overwhelming negativity, regardless of the rights or wrongs arenanet puts out.

    I have no idea what the hell arenanet is trying to accomplish with this balance change (if it could be called that). But pretending that this minor change "pigeon holes" rangers and "kills viability"? No my friend, that's out of touch.

    I will probably have something to say again in six months.

    I don't think ranger is being treated unfairly compared to other professions and would criticize anyone who said otherwise. That being said, the things you mentioned can still be true AND this change can still pigeon hole ranger even more, limit build diversity, and kill viability in some "non-meta" builds that do work.

    It's not that ranger isn't viable, because it is viable. It's that only one kind of ranger is viable. In a game supposedly about build diversity and play the way you want (understandably that won't mean optimal for every playstyle/build - but should be effective with enough skill (within reason)) these changes are a stark contrast.

    Imo, it's Anet that's out of touch. This change very likely wasn't done with the balance team but with the flavor team. Moreover, the balance team seems to lack the understanding/scope/vision to balance properly. The fact is. Ranger needs viable (underpowered could still mean viable) forms of Condi clear beyond WS.

  • EnderzShadow.2506EnderzShadow.2506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Xaylin.1860 said:

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:
    @the bolded part, read Euranteins comments on this.

    I disagree on this part. ;)
    Plenty of classes with way worse condition removal even when not picking WS.

    You can say what you want, but without the experience or a solid argument....

    @Pedro Sequeira.3198 said:

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:

    -It's not for an upcoming e-spec. Need an expansion for that.

    Expansion definitely no longer required for this, on their roadmap they restated they will try to add xpac like features on more normal patches such as in LW episodes and whatnot.

    Thanks Pedro, I did not know that.

    @Soilder.3607 said:

    @Eurantien.4632 said:

    @Soilder.3607 said:
    I haven't touched this game since December but anyone serious about condition removal used Runes of the Revenant or Runes of Resistance. Runes of the Trooper have not been meta for any content for years.

    Removing one condition at a time has not been viable since pre-HoT. All the whining in this thread is standard fare whenever Anet updates ranger, hence why they've learned to ignore this forum.

    You're out of touch. Revenant and resistance were meta because of boon share on boonbeast. Boonbeast isn't meta anymore. Lb/gs is more meta now and there are the WS version and the MM version at high tiers. MM was higher risk for faster kills and required soldier runes for its Condi clear. The range, the extra stealth, the higher damage, and low prevalence of Condi classes allows for the one Condi clears of soldier runes to work again. This nerf kills that build and any others that potentially wanted to move away from WS and that's the problem. Even more of a reliance on WS and less build diversity

    No Eurantien, I'm not out of touch. This entire subforum is out of touch.
    I will probably have something to say again in six months

    If the season was still going, then yes at the top tiers of pvp, it pigeon holes rangers and kill viability.

    lol this isn't your 'every 6 month' vent spot.

    mhm, ok, sure, whatever you say, no after you, I insist, no really, please, be my guest,

©2010–2018 ArenaNet, LLC. All rights reserved. Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2, Heart of Thorns, Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire, ArenaNet, NCSOFT, the Interlocking NC Logo, and all associated logos and designs are trademarks or registered trademarks of NCSOFT Corporation. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.