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I like how awful this class is every time I tried to come back to it


LazySummer.2568

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I went to play some other classes such as rev, thief, engi, ranger, and mesmer.

In PvE, I felt useful with other classes by providing bunch of important boons to allies, removing enemies' boons, and ccing while doing good dps or heals at the same time. Then I come back to this class, and it only do a single thing depending on build (dps/heal/basic boon bitch) and never everything at once like everyone else. On top of that it goes down easily if I was careless.

In PvP/WvW, I felt effective with other classes by just learning their skills in a week and figuring out matchups. I get to spam skills or facetank brainlessly when playing other classes, then I tried similar bs with ele and instantly die even though I'm supposedly playing a bunker build. It also feels nice to get an upper hand in a fight but can't ever actually finish an enemy off because they can simply run around to wait for their cd and sometimes even turn it all around by bursting me thanks to the toothpick ranged, snail paced animation mage theme. Or I'll land a cc on someone then try to go in for follow-up damage only to be out-traded by the person with his face on the floor because everyone else can instant cast spam. Let's also not forget putting down a well placed Meteor Shower only to cry for help from supports because retaliation destroyed my health bar while enemies just run around freely inside the meteor's AoE because barriers and protection.

And of course, there's a balance team that will nerf the class every time while simultaneously giving away all its unique effects/skills/traits to other classes & runes.

Ele is truely the best class for masochists.

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@"LazySummer.2568" said:Let's also not forget putting down a well placed Meteor Shower only to cry for help from supports because retaliation destroyed my health bar while enemies just run around freely inside the meteor's AoE because barriers and protection.

Happens a lot !Remember once with "no downstate", instant suicide :#

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Worst class in game and has been for some time HoT was the real down fall the adding of the high armor mid hp 2 atument wepon swap ele (rev) was the real death of the class. Now its just a "zombly" class that gets updates that are comply distracted from the reality of the ele class and what other classes have.

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Only ele build that works in wvw is the old dd ele for me. You can win any 1v1 if you don't do any mistakes and you can hold your own in a zerg if you know how to hit-and-run.

or you can choose a rev and press hammer 2, and do x4 dmg without risking yourself.

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Elementalist has always been a mess. Back in the day, everyone else had other problems, so we kinda went unnoticed. Then the nerfs started piling up more and more, and while the others improved, we sank deeper and deeper.

Too many players on denial never helped either. Oh, elementalist, it's been meta for so long! Yeah, first because of the fiery greatsword, then the ice bow, then lava font, and then nothing. At least banner slaves contribute to the whole party, and can do other things on their own, but elementalists? The flashy spam of useless attacks can only conceal the low numbers and poor design for so long.

Over time, the truth has become undeniable. Been saying it for years, elementalist is the worst profession of the game. Once my main, nowadays barely more than a mule.

Feel free to hang out around here if you wanna talk about potential redesign ideas, just for fun.

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@"Lonami.2987" said:Elementalist has always been a mess. Back in the day, everyone else had other problems, so we kinda went unnoticed. Then the nerfs started piling up more and more, and while the others improved, we sank deeper and deeper.

Too many players on denial never helped either. Oh, elementalist, it's been meta for so long! Yeah, first because of the fiery greatsword, then the ice bow, then lava font, and then nothing. At least banner slaves contribute to the whole party, and can do other things on their own, but elementalists? The flashy spam of useless attacks can only conceal the low numbers and poor design for so long.

Over time, the truth has become undeniable. Been saying it for years, elementalist is the worst profession of the game. Once my main, nowadays barely more than a mule.

Feel free to hang out around here if you wanna talk about potential redesign ideas, just for fun.

Most ele in game miss understand what the ele has and what the effects are doing to the point of thinking something is much stronger then it realty is. Most tempest players think the tempest protection it give out as support is 40% but its not only self protective is 40% for the tempest. There so much self made misinformation for the player base of ele in game (that never read these forms or realy do any thing but look at raw numbers on there screen) that you dont see massive out crys when there are nerfs for the ele class.

This is on anet and the bad wording of the ele effect / skill tool tips and bad feed back of what going on in game.

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@"Lonami.2987" said:Elementalist has always been a mess. Back in the day, everyone else had other problems, so we kinda went unnoticed. Then the nerfs started piling up more and more, and while the others improved, we sank deeper and deeper.

Too many players on denial never helped either. Oh, elementalist, it's been meta for so long! Yeah, first because of the fiery greatsword, then the ice bow, then lava font, and then nothing. At least banner slaves contribute to the whole party, and can do other things on their own, but elementalists? The flashy spam of useless attacks can only conceal the low numbers and poor design for so long.

Over time, the truth has become undeniable. Been saying it for years, elementalist is the worst profession of the game. Once my main, nowadays barely more than a mule.

Feel free to hang out around here if you wanna talk about potential redesign ideas, just for fun.

Sadly it has always been like that for this class...where elite players winners of world tournaments , can go and state in the dev's face how bad the ele design is...you get some who claim otherwise , confident in their "skills" with the healbot build.

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@"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:You know, I remember when weaver first came out, it was doing nearly 50k DPS.

Ele isn't in the best spot currently, but I can't pretend that the class has always been doomed to failure and obscurity.

The game isn't just instanced PvE. The class actually got hurt a lot because of instanced PvE.

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@"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:You know, I remember when weaver first came out, it was doing nearly 50k DPS.

Ele isn't in the best spot currently, but I can't pretend that the class has always been doomed to failure and obscurity.

You shouldn't have to pretend because the past doesn't justify the present state of the profession. If that was the case then guardian should have been nerfed into obscurity forevermore in WvW, because it has defined the meta since day 1. Every profession has been broken at something at some point, but that's no excuse for destroying the class and then taking years to bring it back up again.

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@Ganathar.4956 said:

@"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:You know, I remember when weaver first came out, it was doing nearly
.

Ele isn't in the best spot currently, but I can't pretend that the class has always been doomed to failure and obscurity.

You shouldn't have to pretend because the past doesn't justify the present state of the profession. If that was the case then guardian should have been nerfed into obscurity forevermore in WvW, because it has defined the meta since day 1. Every profession has been broken at something at some point, but that's no excuse for destroying the class and then taking years to bring it back up again.

You guys are lamenting that Ele has always been some underpowered and neglected profession. It wasn't. Hell, in PVE it isn't that bad even now. 35k DPS is nothing to scoff at, and it isn't that hard to play. I don't do PVP much, but from what I've seen on the thief forum, apparently weavers are this super-invulnerable monstrosity with unlimited sustain and explosive damage.

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@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:You know, I remember when weaver first came out, it was doing nearly
.

Ele isn't in the best spot currently, but I can't pretend that the class has always been doomed to failure and obscurity.

You shouldn't have to pretend because the past doesn't justify the present state of the profession. If that was the case then guardian should have been nerfed into obscurity forevermore in WvW, because it has defined the meta since day 1. Every profession has been broken at something at some point, but that's no excuse for destroying the class and then taking years to bring it back up again.

You guys are lamenting that Ele has always been some underpowered and neglected profession. It wasn't. Hell, in PVE it isn't that bad even now. 35k DPS is nothing to scoff at, and it isn't that hard to play. I don't do PVP much, but from what I've seen on the thief forum, apparently weavers are this super-invulnerable monstrosity with unlimited sustain and explosive damage.

And in WvW, staff weavers have become crap. All that sword nonsense is irrelevant. We want staff to be good again.

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@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:You know, I remember when weaver first came out, it was doing nearly
.

Ele isn't in the best spot currently, but I can't pretend that the class has always been doomed to failure and obscurity.

You shouldn't have to pretend because the past doesn't justify the present state of the profession. If that was the case then guardian should have been nerfed into obscurity forevermore in WvW, because it has defined the meta since day 1. Every profession has been broken at something at some point, but that's no excuse for destroying the class and then taking years to bring it back up again.

You guys are lamenting that Ele has always been some underpowered and neglected profession. It wasn't. Hell, in PVE it isn't that bad even now. 35k DPS is nothing to scoff at, and it isn't that hard to play. I don't do PVP much, but from what I've seen on the thief forum, apparently weavers are this super-invulnerable monstrosity with unlimited sustain and explosive damage.

The op doesn't really say that as far as I can tell. It's mostly talking about the state of ele in the last year or so. It's not bad in PvE but it is definitely outclassed. It is the squishiest class with terrible CC and no support, and yet it doesn't have top damage either. Thieves have seen endless nerfs recently, so it's not surprising if they are struggling. But having lots of sustain and damage at the same time is literally impossible for ele, so idk what those thieves are saying. Both damage and sustain on ele are incredibly stat and trait dependent. There is no way to have both, unlike classes like spellbreaker and holosmith.

It is pretty commonly accepted that ele has had no meta builds in PvP since PoF launched. It has only recently got a somewhat decent build that doesn't rely on exclusively tanking damage. However this fire weaver build is a pretty gimmick build because it relies on burning and any decent player has the minimal amount of cleansing required to avoid the burst.

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There many examples where it seems anet did not think things though with nerf and buff with ele in mind.

Stab update back in the day is a good example of this ele use to only give a 2 sec stab that would stop all hard cc but now its a 2 sec stab that only stops 1 hard cc its a joke and show anet did not even remotely have ele in mind at all during it. Now that there is so much projectile hate in the game skills that are very weak dmg effects such as water 1 staff and earth 1 staff that where used for the added effects now are often comply negated though out a full fight. The ideal of passive condi pressure is now more harmful then good as the ele main condi types are flip into very powerful boons for the other team and ele with out any real counter to boons left comply out in the cold for being helpful to the other team more then there own.

Ele is a profoundly out dated class and is best used for a "hard" mood in any type of game with out any reward for doing it.

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@"Ganathar.4956" said:

The op doesn't really say that as far as I can tell. It's mostly talking about the state of ele in the last year or so. It's not bad in PvE but it is definitely outclassed. It is the squishiest class with terrible CC and no support, and yet it doesn't have top damage either. Thieves have seen endless nerfs recently, so it's not surprising if they are struggling. But having lots of sustain and damage at the same time is literally impossible for ele, so idk what those thieves are saying. Both damage and sustain on ele are incredibly stat and trait dependent. There is no way to have both, unlike classes like spellbreaker and holosmith.

It is pretty commonly accepted that ele has had no meta builds in PvP since PoF launched. It has only recently got a somewhat decent build that doesn't rely on exclusively tanking damage. However this fire weaver build is a pretty gimmick build because it relies on burning and any decent player has the minimal amount of cleansing required to avoid the burst.

Now normally I don't provide an example, specifically to avoid calling out people, because when I do it just leads to hostility. But, since nobody believes me, I'll have to get into it.

1: Title. "Every time I..." means he's done it more than once. Unless the OP has only played in the specific times where Ele wasn't good, he's making a deliberate statement here.

2:

@"Lonami.2987" said:Elementalist has always been a mess. Back in the day, everyone else had other problems, so we kinda went unnoticed. Then the nerfs started piling up more and more, and while the others improved, we sank deeper and deeper.

Always? So when it was the bunker meta, or part of GWEN in WvW, or when it was top tier DPS in PVE for both HoT and PoF? Those don't count for some reason. People "deny it" because it plainly isn't true. Yes, there are a few select skills that put ele in the meta. That's how every other class works, too.

3:

@"Jski.6180" said:Worst class in game and has been for some time HoT was the real down fall the adding of the high armor mid hp 2 atument wepon swap ele (rev) was the real death of the class. Now its just a "zombly" class that gets updates that are comply distracted from the reality of the ele class and what other classes have.

See, it has been my understanding that Elementalists have been in and out of the meta for awhile now. Fresh Air overload had to be nerfed a few times just to let other specs compete in PVE. In WvW the overloads were a life saver, because now the Ele had a stun break on command. Tempests were a good support class with their auras, water/earth overload, static field, and unsteady ground. All revs did was make it so eles didn't have to spam windborne speed and blast finishers in fire fields.

4:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:

Sadly it has always been like that for this class...where elite players winners of world tournaments , can go and state in the dev's face how bad the ele design is...you get some who claim otherwise , confident in their "skills" with the healbot build.

It really hasn't always been like this. I remember when double ele comps were the meta for competitive PVP because of how good they were. This was before the change that limited class choices. Look, if you want the engineer perspective, Engi was "underpowered" for awhile because Grouch was epic with it, and they balanced around Grouch. I put "underpowered" into quotes, because it is all a matter of perspective. To epic level players, engi was fine. We've seen similar things happen with ele, too.


Three makes a trend. I count four different people. I'm not going to get into the nitty gritty details of balance (though in PVE the sword weaver is definitely not lacking in CC). I have my own misgivings. It is also... not what I was talking about. Throwing a pity party where you rewrite history to exaggerate everything isn't going to accomplish anything. It'll just make the devs dismiss what you have to say outright.

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@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

@"Ganathar.4956" said:

The op doesn't really say that as far as I can tell. It's mostly talking about the state of ele in the last year or so. It's not
bad
in PvE but it is definitely outclassed. It is the squishiest class with terrible CC and no support, and yet it doesn't have top damage either. Thieves have seen endless nerfs recently, so it's not surprising if they are struggling. But having lots of sustain and damage at the same time is literally impossible for ele, so idk what those thieves are saying. Both damage and sustain on ele are incredibly stat and trait dependent. There is no way to have both, unlike classes like spellbreaker and holosmith.

It is pretty commonly accepted that ele has had no meta builds in PvP since PoF launched. It has only recently got a somewhat decent build that doesn't rely on exclusively tanking damage. However this fire weaver build is a pretty gimmick build because it relies on burning and any decent player has the minimal amount of cleansing required to avoid the burst.

Now normally I don't provide an example, specifically to avoid calling out people, because when I do it just leads to hostility. But, since nobody believes me, I'll have to get into it.

1: Title. "Every time I..." means he's done it more than once. Unless the OP has only played in the specific times where Ele wasn't good, he's making a deliberate statement here.

2:

@"Lonami.2987" said:Elementalist has always been a mess. Back in the day, everyone else had other problems, so we kinda went unnoticed. Then the nerfs started piling up more and more, and while the others improved, we sank deeper and deeper.

Always? So when it was the bunker meta, or part of GWEN in WvW, or when it was top tier DPS in PVE for both HoT and PoF? Those don't count for some reason. People "deny it" because it plainly isn't true. Yes, there are a few select skills that put ele in the meta. That's how every other class works, too.

3:

@"Jski.6180" said:Worst class in game and has been for some time HoT was the real down fall the adding of the high armor mid hp 2 atument wepon swap ele (rev) was the real death of the class. Now its just a "zombly" class that gets updates that are comply distracted from the reality of the ele class and what other classes have.

See, it has been my understanding that Elementalists have been in and out of the meta for awhile now. Fresh Air overload had to be nerfed a few times just to let other specs compete in PVE. In WvW the overloads were a life saver, because now the Ele had a stun break on command. Tempests were a good support class with their auras, water/earth overload, static field, and unsteady ground. All revs did was make it so eles didn't have to spam windborne speed and blast finishers in fire fields.

4:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:

Sadly it has always been like that for this class...where elite players winners of world tournaments , can go and state in the dev's face how bad the ele design is...you get some who claim otherwise , confident in their "skills" with the healbot build.

It really hasn't always been like this. I remember when double ele comps were the meta for competitive PVP because of how good they were. This was before the change that limited class choices. Look, if you want the engineer perspective, Engi was "underpowered" for awhile because Grouch was epic with it, and they balanced around Grouch. I put "underpowered" into quotes, because it is all a matter of perspective. To epic level players, engi was fine. We've seen similar things happen with ele, too.

Three makes a trend. I count four different people. I'm not going to get into the nitty gritty details of balance (though in PVE the sword weaver is definitely
not
lacking in CC). I have my own misgivings. It is also... not what I was talking about. Throwing a pity party where you rewrite history to exaggerate everything isn't going to accomplish anything. It'll just make the devs dismiss what you have to say outright.

I only mentioned the OP because that is who I was assuming that you were replying to since you didn't quote anyone. "every time I tried to come back to it" to me implies that the OP left the class at some point, and then every time he tried to come back to it since then it hasn't been good. It really does not strike me as a post that refers to anything regarding ele's state pre-PoF, but maybe that's just me. It is true that there is some over-reacting here in general, but Anet hasn't been doing anything substantially positive for the class since PoF released.

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@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

@"Ganathar.4956" said:

The op doesn't really say that as far as I can tell. It's mostly talking about the state of ele in the last year or so. It's not
bad
in PvE but it is definitely outclassed. It is the squishiest class with terrible CC and no support, and yet it doesn't have top damage either. Thieves have seen endless nerfs recently, so it's not surprising if they are struggling. But having lots of sustain and damage at the same time is literally impossible for ele, so idk what those thieves are saying. Both damage and sustain on ele are incredibly stat and trait dependent. There is no way to have both, unlike classes like spellbreaker and holosmith.

It is pretty commonly accepted that ele has had no meta builds in PvP since PoF launched. It has only recently got a somewhat decent build that doesn't rely on exclusively tanking damage. However this fire weaver build is a pretty gimmick build because it relies on burning and any decent player has the minimal amount of cleansing required to avoid the burst.

Now normally I don't provide an example, specifically to avoid calling out people, because when I do it just leads to hostility. But, since nobody believes me, I'll have to get into it.

1: Title. "Every time I..." means he's done it more than once. Unless the OP has only played in the specific times where Ele wasn't good, he's making a deliberate statement here.

2:

@"Lonami.2987" said:Elementalist has always been a mess. Back in the day, everyone else had other problems, so we kinda went unnoticed. Then the nerfs started piling up more and more, and while the others improved, we sank deeper and deeper.

Always? So when it was the bunker meta, or part of GWEN in WvW, or when it was top tier DPS in PVE for both HoT and PoF? Those don't count for some reason. People "deny it" because it plainly isn't true. Yes, there are a few select skills that put ele in the meta. That's how every other class works, too.

3:

@"Jski.6180" said:Worst class in game and has been for some time HoT was the real down fall the adding of the high armor mid hp 2 atument wepon swap ele (rev) was the real death of the class. Now its just a "zombly" class that gets updates that are comply distracted from the reality of the ele class and what other classes have.

See, it has been my understanding that Elementalists have been in and out of the meta for awhile now. Fresh Air overload had to be nerfed a few times just to let other specs compete in PVE. In WvW the overloads were a life saver, because now the Ele had a stun break on command. Tempests were a good support class with their auras, water/earth overload, static field, and unsteady ground. All revs did was make it so eles didn't have to spam windborne speed and blast finishers in fire fields.

4:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:

Sadly it has always been like that for this class...where elite players winners of world tournaments , can go and state in the dev's face how bad the ele design is...you get some who claim otherwise , confident in their "skills" with the healbot build.

It really hasn't always been like this. I remember when double ele comps were the meta for competitive PVP because of how good they were. This was before the change that limited class choices. Look, if you want the engineer perspective, Engi was "underpowered" for awhile because Grouch was epic with it, and they balanced around Grouch. I put "underpowered" into quotes, because it is all a matter of perspective. To epic level players, engi was fine. We've seen similar things happen with ele, too.

Three makes a trend. I count four different people. I'm not going to get into the nitty gritty details of balance (though in PVE the sword weaver is definitely
not
lacking in CC). I have my own misgivings. It is also... not what I was talking about. Throwing a pity party where you rewrite history to exaggerate everything isn't going to accomplish anything. It'll just make the devs dismiss what you have to say outright.

I fail to remember when exactly engi was underpowered...before HoT we had cele rifle...before that we had grenade burst...before that it was decapping turret who everybody abused and before that it was that HG insta burst from stealth ( before got nerfed).

I do remember a "small dark period" for engi years ago..but that was a great exageration ofc, your class always had the tools to excel in several field be it burst or be tank or support...not the first choice maybe but not that far beyond , your class always managed to land on its feet regardless of the nerfs received and what about ele?

As @Jski.6180 correctly stated the class is a design mess, he is not trying to be a drama queen like forum goers like to assume...he's telling the hard truth ; all it took for ele to be deleted from pvp literally were a couple of nerfs to Cleansing water and Signet of restoration...the class was gone..so gone that devs got forced to backtrack their nerfs, it was 2014 and this has never been done with any other profession.

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@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:You guys are lamenting that Ele has always been some underpowered and neglected profession. It wasn't. Hell, in PVE it isn't that bad even now. 35k DPS is nothing to scoff at, and it isn't that hard to play. I don't do PVP much, but from what I've seen on the thief forum, apparently weavers are this super-invulnerable monstrosity with unlimited sustain and explosive damage.

There is group PVE and solo PVE. The former gives you all necessary buffs and a tank so you can mindlessly focus on dps.While it's a lot more difficult on the later! On full dps build, you can be downed in no time while not putting out more dps than any other profession that will have solid built-in degenses with that same dps build.But yeah, it's not so bad in pve!

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@Aigleborgne.2981 said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:You guys are lamenting that Ele has always been some underpowered and neglected profession. It wasn't. Hell, in PVE it isn't that bad even now. 35k DPS is nothing to scoff at, and it isn't that hard to play. I don't do PVP much, but from what I've seen on the thief forum, apparently weavers are this super-invulnerable monstrosity with unlimited sustain and explosive damage.

There is group PVE and solo PVE. The former gives you all necessary buffs and a tank so you can mindlessly focus on dps.While it's a lot more difficult on the later! On full dps build, you can be downed in no time while not putting out more dps than any other profession that will have solid built-in degenses with that same dps build.But yeah, it's not so bad in pve!

I spend most of my time in Solo PVE. The weaver can melt most things before they can do a significant amount of damage, even in groups. In the opening combo, most enemies don't live longer than Quantum Strike -> Pyro Vortex, and if they do then they're dead after Flame Uprising. I have no problems wandering around the overworld in every map, killing everything short of a champion with ease, even while outnumbered. Even then, I can solo many champions on a full glass sword/dagger weaver.

It's not that bad at all.

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