FireSage Build - [PvP] [P3] [Video] — Guild Wars 2 Forums

FireSage Build - [PvP] [P3] [Video]

Ragnar.4257Ragnar.4257 Member ✭✭✭
edited May 30, 2019 in Guardian

Hi All,

My interest in this game is crafting builds that break away from the meta. The most recent result is this, which I've not seen anyone else using (at least in EU).

This is a random assortment of stuff from Ranked/Unranked/AT over the last 2 months. Its random because I usually forget to start recording >.< So its not necessarily all the best bits, its just stuff.

This post is about letting people know "hey, this thing exists, it works, you can use it", not about bragging (because I'm a pretty mediocre player), but for those who need to see "credentials", I have used this build for 100% of the last season, stayed pretty consistently in Plat-3, and finished at rank 42 (this is shown in the video). Not that top-50 means what it maybe once did, but what I'm saying is that this build has been tried and tested against players in EU P2/P3/Leg, and has been proven to be viable (at least in Ranked PvP). It is not a joke build that only works against Silvers.

The build is this:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQRAnd5ensAD1BjNCD+7AkCjF+Bb/i2RPpYBgZQRIrClj6QA-jJhAQBd4kAIxyAA4JAQo9HAA

The aim is to fulfill multiple roles at once. It is part-support, part-team-nuker, part-duelist. The idea is that if you bring 60% of the support of a dedicated healer, and 60% of the damage of a dedicated DPS, then you're bringing 120% of either of those alone. I honestly find this easier to queue with, since you're not dependent on your team-mates in the same way as you are on full-support. You can make plays in team-fights, you can take 1v1s, and you can still keep your necro alive, but you're not chained to them.

So the build has:

  • Good team support. It doesn't have the same healing output as full Menders, but it still provides the same stability, aegis, protection, cleanses, and the healing isn't terrible.
  • Good AoE damage. With Permeating Wrath and stacking symbols, you can easily get 20+ stacks of burning going in a team-fight, even without Radiance traits, Torch, Purging Flames, etc.
  • Good duelist. Honestly, I was surprised at how good this thing is at dueling. I'll list my experience with matchups further down, but it beats alot of meta builds 1v1.

Downsides:

  • No ability to escape a fight. If you don't read the map properly, and get caught in a 1v3, you're dead.
  • No invulns, evades, blinks etc. In a 4v4, if all 4 enemy focus you, it can be difficult to not insta-die if your team aren't on the ball with counter-pressure
  • Endless, endless crying from team-mates about "Y NO HEEL"

Play-style, the build centers around Permeating Wrath. The key to this is to maximize how many times you hit. It doesn't matter much how hard those hits are, just that there's alot. Symbols help with making lots of hits, as does axe #1. Part of what makes the build viable right now is that we're in a power meta and most people aren't running much cleanse. It was alot tougher to play when spellbreakers were running FC-resistance and holos were running protection-conversion.

I'd be interested to see if there are more competent players than me who can make this work at legendary/mAT level.

On a side-note, this build is 100% not viable in WvW. Permeating Wrath trait is nerfed 50%, and since there are no capture-points, its much harder to force fights inside your symbols.

1v1 Matchups (FB Win / Lose)

  • Spellbreaker - 100 / 0 - Spellbreaker can literally do nothing. I have not lost a single 1v1 to spellbreaker all season.
  • Berserker - 90 / 10 - Berserker can occasionally fluke a 1-shot
  • Core Guard - 80 / 20 - If you do everything right they can't win. Just don't fall asleep.
  • Herald (Power) - 60 / 40 - Herald is weak to Condi, but, FB is weak to Herald. Usually close.
  • Herald (Hybrid) - 30 / 70 - The hybrid herald build, I'm not sure if its actually a counter, or if its just the only people I see playing this are really good players.
  • Sic'Em Soulbeast - 80 / 20 - Easy win provided you don't get 1-shot out of stealth.
  • Boonbeast - 40 / 60 - Boonbeast will probably win eventually, unless you can force them to screw up quite bad.
  • Holosmith - 70 / 30 - I tend to win, but its not guaranteed. Not sure if this is just that there are alot of bad Holos out there.
  • Scrapper - Stalemate - Yawn
  • Thief - 80 / 20 - Nasty if they +1, but not an issue in a straight 1v1
  • Deadeye - 40 / 60 - Difficult, can never get close enough to finish them, so they can retry until they get you
  • Mirage - 50 / 50 - Before mirage nerfs this was a guarunteed loss. Now its still difficult, but can be won. Reason its hard is all the clones eating up your Aegis.
  • Chrono - 30 / 70 - The Chrono really has to screw up to lose.
  • Sword Weaver - Stalemate - Be careful though, the burning they can put out can definitely kill if you don't manage cooldowns properly.
  • FA Ele - 80 / 20 - Lol, no.
  • Scourge - 30 / 70 - Nasty, they can continually cleanse burns, or throw them back in your face.
  • Reaper - 70 / 30 - Fairly straight forward, as long as you don't get 1-shot by the spin-to-win

Comments

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    interest. many interest.
    reaper 70/30 tho? they not bring cleanses/ have low lf or somethin?

    Te lazla otstra.
    nerf list

  • Ragnar.4257Ragnar.4257 Member ✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    interest. many interest.
    reaper 70/30 tho? they not bring cleanses/ have low lf or somethin?

    Its more that they can't effectively damage you back. You have alot of CC to screw them around, and also alot of weakness/blind.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I play a variant of this build, with a bit more support. Solid solo build. Probably best guardian dps build currently in sPvP. It has issues though with focus fire and condi damage. It has issues as well on underperforming teams.

  • Ragnar.4257Ragnar.4257 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 6, 2019

    So, continued playing this this season, but swapped out mace for sword.

    Finished #12 on EU leaderboard, everyone still wants to tell me this is trash build and plz swap support ^^ When honestly this is the strongest solo build for guardian right now.

    https://i.imgur.com/77tl5nc.jpg

  • Chiral.8915Chiral.8915 Member ✭✭

    I like sword a lot better as well for the mobility which is the only thing i feel this build lacks. I'm a gold player so don't take my advice as anything serious :)

  • RisenHowl.2419RisenHowl.2419 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Sw/she and axe/f works really well, lets you apply a lot of pressure for a build with this much support.

    Only changes I'd suggest are mercy sig for save yourselves (because it is crazy powerful and can turn fights around while upping your sustain) and sigil of agility instead of energy on axe (lets you land the burst more reliably)

    Nice job on the top slot man!

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ragnar.4257 said:
    So, continued playing this this season, but swapped out mace for sword.

    Finished #12 on EU leaderboard, everyone still wants to tell me this is trash build and plz swap support ^^ When honestly this is the strongest solo build for guardian right now.

    https://i.imgur.com/77tl5nc.jpg

    I have not been playing ranked, but this is what I have been primarily playing as of late. It is the strongest guardian dps build by a large margin.

    @RisenHowl.2419 said:
    Sw/she and axe/f works really well, lets you apply a lot of pressure for a build with this much support.

    Only changes I'd suggest are mercy sig for save yourselves (because it is crazy powerful and can turn fights around while upping your sustain) and sigil of agility instead of energy on axe (lets you land the burst more reliably)

    Nice job on the top slot man!

    I use contemplation of purity most of the time. Gives me an edge against mirages and scourges (since condi is the build biggest weakness). And good counter if you are hit with multiple dilberting condis. However, this utility slot is pretty flexible. For once as a guardian we have utility option..

  • RisenHowl.2419RisenHowl.2419 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I had someone request a build/gameplay guide for it, so i put one together. All credit goes to Ragnar for the build though =D

  • Pretty solid build.
    @Ragnar, what are the reasons for using Save Yourselves? For me that Skill does not fit well, but maybe I overlook something.
    SoM I do not like, does not fit in the flow for me. CoP is fine. JI is better I think. Gives some urgent required mobility.

  • Virtuality.8351Virtuality.8351 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 17, 2019

    Irrelevant to the topic but I just want to come in and say that scimitar and the Prophecies look so b/a/d/a/s/s on the Charr lol

    Edit: Freaking forum profanity block kept changing 'b/a/d/a/s/s' into 'kitten'. I mean just for kitten's sake, it is a freaking compliment, .

  • Ragnar.4257Ragnar.4257 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 17, 2019

    @RisenHowl.2419 Great guide, cheers for the mention.

    @Virtuality.8351 bad kitten indeed

    @Lejero.4168 Save Yourselves I take, because it is always useful in all situations. Other utilities are only useful in some, but not others. Contemplation of Purity is great if you're against a scourge/mirage, but totally useless against holosmith/herald/spellbreaker/soulbeast/thief.

    Look at what it gives you; Stunbreak, 12s Protection, Vigor, Fury, Swiftness, Regen, 15s Retal, 2s Resistance. 12s of Protection is a seriously long duration for a boon that powerful. If you're getting jumped by power builds, 12s of Protection, plus vigor, retal, regen, can really help. If you're against a condi class, the 2 seconds of resistance can be a real life-saver. It gives you enough time to either get into F2 Tome, or use some charges of cleanse mantra, or simply just wait-out the worst of the condi-bomb. And it's an extra stunbreak, which is really nice, 'cos I don't like relying just on elite mantra for stunbreak. And it has a support aspect, allowing you to pull conditions from allies.

    Signet of Mercy I don't like, as by taking that you're effectively giving up your ability to 1v1, and committing fully to team-fight / support. I prefer to have the ability to take pretty much any 1v1 with a reasonable chance of success.

    IMO, the main problem this build faces is staying alive when being focused by 2 or more hostiles, so the 3rd utility should be something that helps you survive, and not an offensive pick. So things like Smite Condition, Mantra of Flame, Signet of Wrath, these are all bad picks. I can see why Judges Intervention would be a tempting pick, it could be the difference between securing a kill and watching the enemy disengage. But I would rather take something that helps survival. So either Save Yourselves, or Signet of Judgement, or Stand Your Ground, or Contemplation of Purity.

  • I love this build ! Thanks a lot to Ragnar and to RIsenHowl !

    By the way, do you think it would be possible to adapt this build for roaming in WvW ?
    Here is an attempt to mimic the sage stats :
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PWABc2x/lRwiYSsJmJmWXevaA-zRRYLRJ2NyYlRCVQmpg8DA-e

    I wonder though if the absence of capture points (like in the pvp arenas) will make this build useless, as players will simply maybe kite the symbols ?

    Thanks for your possible advices and thoughts :)

  • Ragnar.4257Ragnar.4257 Member ✭✭✭

    @gandaar.4567 said:
    I love this build ! Thanks a lot to Ragnar and to RIsenHowl !

    By the way, do you think it would be possible to adapt this build for roaming in WvW ?
    Here is an attempt to mimic the sage stats :
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PWABc2x/lRwiYSsJmJmWXevaA-zRRYLRJ2NyYlRCVQmpg8DA-e

    I wonder though if the absence of capture points (like in the pvp arenas) will make this build useless, as players will simply maybe kite the symbols ?

    Thanks for your possible advices and thoughts :)

    In PvP, VoJ/PermeatingWrath is 4s burn, in PvE/WvW it is 2s burn. So this build is quite literally half as effective in WvW. It could maybe be viable as part of a 5 man roaming team, but it isn't at all viable as a solo roamer / dueler.

  • thank you for your quick reply ! the length of the burn does not show on gw2skills but it does in the game... nice observation skills ;)

  • @Ragnar.4257 Thank you for your explanation. I tried it through the last two days extensively and have to confirm your arguments. Save Yourselves is really always a viable pick and can be used everywhere and not only situational.

  • Vallenous.2179Vallenous.2179 Member ✭✭
    edited August 27, 2019

    So I have to say as a vet with thousands of games, this firesage build does rock. On paper it doesn't seam worth it but if you know how to play a decent firebrand and can handle a mantra heavy build, this will do wonders for you. I switch between this and a fb GS menders symbolic zeal hybrid that helps with scourge and chronos more, where the firesage build counters engis wars and lots of other builds that power cant deal with. I want to thank you Ragnar (DW4 or vikings shoutout?) for posting such a comprehensive explanation of your awesome well thought out build. Risen, thanks for showing those combos in motion, simple but so effective. Pulling it off in game constantly and its ridiculously fun lol.

    This is the GS menders symbolbrand build i also use:
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PWwAEd7lRwkYPsImJO0TrvaA-z5AXKZGBRXAdHCtnAyPA

    Ragnars build and my GS build play very similar, with their own strengths and weaknesses. Having the extra 240 power for a rotation of F1 aoe's can roll a team just like a burn build, but also having more healing and hi damaging symbols that put stacks of vuln on targets. Ragnars build outputs more damage and has some great sustain options from the virtues tree. Not positive which is stronger, but I would most likely say Ragnars at the highest level, as power can be countered a little bit easier. They both CC ridiculously hard, and can 1v1 excellent in most matchups. The space control is something I have always dreamed of having with a symbol build and both of these build really can control and wipe points. I am actually enjoying my options, and am enjoying pvp again since a long time. This patch needs a bit more balance with some of the bs but its fun for now and thats nice.

    I appreciate the work that both of you did with this build, good luck to you in your future games.

  • Riptide.5617Riptide.5617 Member
    edited August 29, 2019

    N1 build. TY

  • Riptide.5617Riptide.5617 Member
    edited August 29, 2019

    I am relatively new to pvp in gw2 and I like this build. Can someone help me and link a guide with an overview when to use which tome?
    ty guys

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Riptide.5617 said:
    I am relatively new to pvp in gw2 and I like this build. Can someone help me and link a guide with an overview when to use which tome?
    ty guys

    Original poster had a link for the build in his post.

    In sPvP you do need exp to get to know when to use tomes. Short version:

    Tome of Courage, anytime you need to provide team damage reduction/blocking, when you are getting focused fired by more than 1 enemies and solo if the enemy are on high offense (like warrior rampage).

    Tome of justice, I usually use it after I land a successful axe pull+axe symbol + mantra of truth. Do not start any fight with it. It is slow, low range and easy to avoid.

    Tome of resolve, this is the weakest tome for the build. Generally speaking, if you use this while being attacked, you will lose more HP than you can heal, unless you are playing full support (which is not this build). You want to use it if you can maintain distance or break line of sigh. You can also use it to heal an ally being focused fire. Though it takes lower priority over Tome of Courage and CC.

  • I would say the quickness mantra is mandatory, in place of Save Yourselves. It provides 150 toughness, power, and condition damage while active (passive trait), and increases your hits by 33%, effectively a 40% buff to your damage when you’re running quickness.

    I would also use sword in place of mace. The teleport is too good to pass up.

  • Been trying lots of variant hybrid builds with sage and menders. Sagebolic?

  • Ralkuth.1456Ralkuth.1456 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 21, 2019

    @Caine.8204 The quickness probably doesn’t work on the pulse intervals of symbols though. I also believe he said he switched to Sword from Mace in the OP, though I think I read that backwards initially. You sure you won’t have a use for the Protection for power spikes, or a quick stunbreak into Resistance when you’re getting Condi-bombed by a Scourge or Condi DrD, from Save Yourselves?

    Player of distinguishing mediocrity (S5: G3, S6: P1, S17: P1).
    Carrying enemy team since 2012.
    "Multiclass implies you can actually play the class" - A Certain Royalty, on Twitch

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