Astral weapons LUDICROUSLY out of cost balance — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Astral weapons LUDICROUSLY out of cost balance

Boogiepop Void.6473Boogiepop Void.6473 Member ✭✭✭
edited June 2, 2019 in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

We have two Exotic weapon sets this season and involved in the Vision collections, Astral and DragonBlood. Compare prices to unlock the vision collection steps:
Astral - 6 Weapons - 3000 Kralkarite ore + 3000 Powdered Rose Quartz
Dragonblood - 6 weapons - 360 Branded Masses
That's an 8 1/3 times larger price (in terms of map currency) for Astral vs Dragon blood. Now Kralk ore can be bought at vendors at 25/vend/day, whereas masses can be bought at 5/vend/day. Counting vendors, that's 75 kralk/day vs 20 masses/day. BUT you can get WAY MORE masses per day from Thunderhead by mining due to them being fixed nodes, and you can't get powdered quartz except from meteors, and at a much lower rate than Kralk ore, despite them being even in the recipe, which means your are gated by Powdered quartz, not kralk ore. I don't have exact values but the ratio based on my mining seems to be 4/1 kralk ore to powdered quartz. Dragonblood weapons require Exquisite Serpentine Jewels, but you need 18 total and can get about 4 per day from fixed timed events (total need time per day is only about .5-.75 hours for both meta events and the dwarf tombs), which is much less time invested than the powdered quartz.
So therefore it requires a MUCH higher effort to make Astral Weapons, despite both recipes yielding exotic weapons with equivalent collection value. And due to having a much more useful stat set, one could argue the Dragonblood weapons are higher in game value, despite being easier to make.

Items with nearly identical value should have nearly identical effort to obtain. I haven't even gone into if you want to craft all the Stellar weapons, which requires a ludicrous 10000 kralk ore, compare to only 2400 masses for all the heroic dragonblood weapons, which is again ludicrously out of balance for equivalent items (ignoring the fact that you will probably need to stat-swap the stellar weapons for most characters). We need to bring the price of Astral and Stellar weapons more in line with their value. The comparative effort needed to make these is far too out of balance.

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Comments

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    You also get 5 times the Kralkatite Ore just from a single heart. The only thing not in line is the rose quartz, but I wouldn't call it an issue.

    Bite me.

  • Boogiepop Void.6473Boogiepop Void.6473 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 2, 2019

    @Blocki.4931 said:
    You also get 5 times the Kralkatite Ore just from a single heart. The only thing not in line is the rose quartz, but I wouldn't call it an issue.

    I did note that in the op, but when compared to the required amounts, you get less total progress toward completing a weapon from these vendor purchases (ignoring that you also need the same amount of powder) despite the numerically larger amount of ore. It thus gives the APPEARANCE of a lot of progress while actually giving less progress toward a weapon than purchase of numerically fewer masses

  • preacher.9370preacher.9370 Member ✭✭✭

    and now i'm starting to see people not bother with the istan events and just wait around for the meteors

  • Hesacon.8735Hesacon.8735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    If I didn't craft stellar weapons, I'd have had enough materials for astral weapons. Alas, I'm far short of crafting the 5 more astral weapons I need. I sure do wish stellar weapons counted towards the achievement since they're similar skins and cost more.

  • Jayden Reese.9542Jayden Reese.9542 Member ✭✭✭

    Turn mirrors obelisks kick cages so hard for 50 in 4 min per char half the time a meteor pops for another 20/30 even thunder head the 1st heart is like 50 secs and the others are quick but yeah even w the serpetine rarity you will finish astral faster unless you refuse to spend gold on quartz. I think some could argue the dragon blood is more difficult and timegated because you cant alt your way thru in a couple days.

  • PervMonk.4891PervMonk.4891 Member ✭✭✭

    @Mil.3562 said:

    @PervMonk.4891 said:
    god ppl will complain and whine about everything, i had 0 ore and Powdered quartz
    farmed all 4k powder and 3k ore in like 3 days.
    do you just want everything thrown at you for no effort?
    and your math is wrong you do get more powder than ores from meteors

    I supposed this is liked a kind of personal RL achievement for you? Good for you. I hope.

    BUT, many players have very different lifestyles from you. Many are more committed to our social life, family, work, studies, etc. Gaming is just a casual thing in our life.

    Unlike OP and others like him, we don't have the luxury of spending hours for days in a game. But that doesn't mean we don't need the cool stuff in game or we spend less money in this game. All we ask for is to have consideration for this group of players.

    OP is giving a good feedback. Whining? I think the only whinning i see here are players who expect others to play games like the way they do. No options.

    " .....Depending on what you read, what Guild Wars 2 content you play and who you play it with, you’ll see a particular slice of the global community. Case in point, we’re now on the forums and not everyone participates here (but a lot of people do read them), meaning that the picture you paint of the community is incomplete..."

    This is indeed what is happening lately in this forum community. Lots of forum participants trying very hard to paint a incomplete picture of what the true community wants.

    i don't play gw2 that much, only 3-4 hrs a day
    if some1 can't afford to play 2 hrs a day then why bother playing at all

  • I made a reasoned, quantitative argument. A few posters responded by doing the same, and while I may not agree, I can appreciate actually taking time to think about and respond to the actual argument.

    The majority decided to not address the argument at all and just take umbrage that I would dare to even suggest that something might be a problem or need to be looked at, or to assume I am lazy or asking for a handout. Bravo for responding without reading or thinking at all.

    to Illconceived Was Na.9781: First, I would dispute "lots" as a characterization for meteor strikes. They came about once a half hour. In terms of rate comparison, I would have to do a lot more testing to be able to definitively compare meteor acquisition vs node acquisition (as you point out, you can get 0 masses from nodes). However what is indisputable is availability. Node harvest rate is limited only by the ability to get from node to node, so on average it should be greater than a once a half hour gather rate. And I would point out again that the main limiter is not Kralkarite ore (which you justifiably point out has many sources), but Powdered quartz, which comes from meteors only (yes, as Haleydawn.3764 states, you can buy on the store, but not all players have gold to burn, so I was talking about strictly harvesting and obtaining in game).

    Jayden Reese.9542 Again, the limiter is Powdered Quartz, not kralkarite, which you can't buy from the hearts. You will almost always have more Kralkarite than Quartz.

  • mindcircus.1506mindcircus.1506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Mil.3562 said:
    Unlikely OP and others like him, we don't have the luxury of spending hours for days in a game. But that doesn't mean we don't need the cool stuff in game or we spend less money in this game. All we ask for is to have consideration for this group of players.

    I find it strange that you comment about commitments outside the game and then characterize your desire for the Skyscale as a need.
    You don't need the Skyscale. No one does.
    It's a virtual item in a virtual word played for entertainment.
    It's not even required by the game. Not having it is not a progression blocker.

    Having less time to commit to the game doesn't preclude you from having any achievement in it. It just means it takes longer. There is no single part of the collections that is unreachable by anyone, regardless of how much time they have to spend playing GW2. People with an hour a day make legendaries. You see the reddit posts all the time.

    To say:

    All we ask for is to have consideration for this group of players.

    When there is absolutely no difference in acquisition for any group of players? When someone who has 1 hour a day to spend on the game has to take the exact same steps as someone who has 5?
    What kind of special consideration are you looking for?
    Are you asking for a flat out "purchase" option for the Skyscale for money? Because the last time I checked all factions in this community, hardcore and casual alike, were baby raging for more in-game earnables and less gemstore.

    This is indeed what is happening lately in this forum community. Lots of forum participants trying very hard to paint a incomplete picture of what the true community wants.

    I agree that something here is being misrepresented.

  • You will note that this was not my original argument. I was looking for parity of effort between two equivalent activities, not to play less.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 3, 2019

    @Boogiepop Void.6473 said:
    First, I would dispute "lots" as a characterization for meteor strikes. They came about once a half hour.

    It's every 15 minutes.

    but Powdered quartz, which comes from meteors only (yes, as Haleydawn.3764 states, you can buy on the store, but not all players have gold to burn,

    Why are they making a legendary then? I'd understand this reasoning if it was just for a regular achievement or weapon but the primary motivator behind this thread is to craft what is needed for the legendary. It's currently around 182G to get the six weapons that you need which isn't all that much compared to the rest of the cost of acquiring the legendary. That cost for the weapons will continue to drop as it's nearly 3 times cheaper than what it was a week ago.

  • Boogiepop Void.6473Boogiepop Void.6473 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 3, 2019

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    Why are they making a legendary then? I'd understand this reasoning if it was just for a regular achievement or weapon but the primary motivator behind this thread is to craft what is needed for the legendary. It's currently around 182G to get the six weapons that you need which isn't all that much compared to the rest of the cost of acquiring the legendary. That cost for the weapons will continue to drop as it's nearly 3 times cheaper than what it was a week ago.

    This isn't for the legendary. This is for the weapons. Are they PART of the legendary? yes. But the main imbalance is for the weapons, that HAPPEN to be part of the legendary. Things that are only for a legendary can and probably should be overpriced. Things that are separate but happen to also be part of a legendary should not.

  • Etria.3642Etria.3642 Member ✭✭✭✭

    In less than one hour I got 390 kralk and 465 powdered quartz. All from meteors, thanks to a multimap farm. At this rate it'll take me a week. The Dragonsblood ones took me much longer--there is no easy peasy way to get them other than hearts and events. And getting them included map comp on several characters.

  • Faaris.8013Faaris.8013 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Etria.3642 said:
    In less than one hour I got 390 kralk and 465 powdered quartz. All from meteors, thanks to a multimap farm. At this rate it'll take me a week. The Dragonsblood ones took me much longer--there is no easy peasy way to get them other than hearts and events. And getting them included map comp on several characters.

    I was able to craft the 6 Dragonsblood weapons within 4 days, but I'm not even able to buy the recipes for the Astral weapons yet. It takes a 7 day quest just to get started. Just yesterday we talked about this in guild chat and we all agreed that in comparison, the aquisition of Astral weapons is out of line. You need 500 kralk ore, 10 times more than Branded Masses. But you only get 5 times more from Heart vendors. Ok, I got a lot from mining meteors on multiple maps. But in comparison to Dragonsbloos weapons, it's a lot of standing around waiting for stuff. In Thunderhead Peaks, I used 13 characters to do the Gorrik Heart, which takes less than one minute to complete, and buy the item to get into the dungeon on the TP, for the gems. I think there was a quest for the recipes as well, but not time gated.

    For Astral weapons, I have to do a 7 day time gated quest and wait many hours for meteors. I will do this, but in comparison to the othher stuff you have to do for the collection, it's not equal. Maybe that was never the goal, but it's like that.

  • Krizek.5672Krizek.5672 Member ✭✭

    @Faaris.8013 said:

    @Etria.3642 said:
    In less than one hour I got 390 kralk and 465 powdered quartz. All from meteors, thanks to a multimap farm. At this rate it'll take me a week. The Dragonsblood ones took me much longer--there is no easy peasy way to get them other than hearts and events. And getting them included map comp on several characters.

    I was able to craft the 6 Dragonsblood weapons within 4 days, but I'm not even able to buy the recipes for the Astral weapons yet. It takes a 7 day quest just to get started. Just yesterday we talked about this in guild chat and we all agreed that in comparison, the aquisition of Astral weapons is out of line. You need 500 kralk ore, 10 times more than Branded Masses. But you only get 5 times more from Heart vendors. Ok, I got a lot from mining meteors on multiple maps. But in comparison to Dragonsbloos weapons, it's a lot of standing around waiting for stuff. In Thunderhead Peaks, I used 13 characters to do the Gorrik Heart, which takes less than one minute to complete, and buy the item to get into the dungeon on the TP, for the gems. I think there was a quest for the recipes as well, but not time gated.

    For Astral weapons, I have to do a 7 day time gated quest and wait many hours for meteors. I will do this, but in comparison to the othher stuff you have to do for the collection, it's not equal. Maybe that was never the goal, but it's like that.

    Its terrible, that game offers longterm activities. One more time, you DONT have to do it. Most of the activities are optional. So stop searching for problems, where they are not. If I may suggest search for bugs which are in some collections, much more meritorious.

  • Dami.5046Dami.5046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I actually need to farm some powered rose. around 1k of it. THE HORROR. I need to farm something. Quick better say i'm quitting/not logging in/ going to write 10 threads on the subject so it gets nerfed.
    Seriously what games have you lot been playing? Most I have played are leveling, farming to make gear/weapons and farming more to make my character even better.
    In aion I worked out with the time gates there in the arena, it would take me 100 days to get a weapon. 100 days!
    Imagine that in this game.
    A few daily time gates and everyone goes mad. A bit of farming and everyone goes mad.

  • Faaris.8013Faaris.8013 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Krizek.5672 said:

    @Faaris.8013 said:

    @Etria.3642 said:
    In less than one hour I got 390 kralk and 465 powdered quartz. All from meteors, thanks to a multimap farm. At this rate it'll take me a week. The Dragonsblood ones took me much longer--there is no easy peasy way to get them other than hearts and events. And getting them included map comp on several characters.

    I was able to craft the 6 Dragonsblood weapons within 4 days, but I'm not even able to buy the recipes for the Astral weapons yet. It takes a 7 day quest just to get started. Just yesterday we talked about this in guild chat and we all agreed that in comparison, the aquisition of Astral weapons is out of line. You need 500 kralk ore, 10 times more than Branded Masses. But you only get 5 times more from Heart vendors. Ok, I got a lot from mining meteors on multiple maps. But in comparison to Dragonsbloos weapons, it's a lot of standing around waiting for stuff. In Thunderhead Peaks, I used 13 characters to do the Gorrik Heart, which takes less than one minute to complete, and buy the item to get into the dungeon on the TP, for the gems. I think there was a quest for the recipes as well, but not time gated.

    For Astral weapons, I have to do a 7 day time gated quest and wait many hours for meteors. I will do this, but in comparison to the othher stuff you have to do for the collection, it's not equal. Maybe that was never the goal, but it's like that.

    Its terrible, that game offers longterm activities. One more time, you DONT have to do it. Most of the activities are optional. So stop searching for problems, where they are not. If I may suggest search for bugs which are in some collections, much more meritorious.

    My post was rather neutral, I don't see how you feel triggered to lecture me on how I'm supposed to play the game. I stated that the Astral weapons are more tedious to get than Dragonsblood and I said why. Do you have a different opinion on that?

  • PervMonk.4891PervMonk.4891 Member ✭✭✭

    @Faaris.8013 said:

    @Krizek.5672 said:

    @Faaris.8013 said:

    @Etria.3642 said:
    In less than one hour I got 390 kralk and 465 powdered quartz. All from meteors, thanks to a multimap farm. At this rate it'll take me a week. The Dragonsblood ones took me much longer--there is no easy peasy way to get them other than hearts and events. And getting them included map comp on several characters.

    I was able to craft the 6 Dragonsblood weapons within 4 days, but I'm not even able to buy the recipes for the Astral weapons yet. It takes a 7 day quest just to get started. Just yesterday we talked about this in guild chat and we all agreed that in comparison, the aquisition of Astral weapons is out of line. You need 500 kralk ore, 10 times more than Branded Masses. But you only get 5 times more from Heart vendors. Ok, I got a lot from mining meteors on multiple maps. But in comparison to Dragonsbloos weapons, it's a lot of standing around waiting for stuff. In Thunderhead Peaks, I used 13 characters to do the Gorrik Heart, which takes less than one minute to complete, and buy the item to get into the dungeon on the TP, for the gems. I think there was a quest for the recipes as well, but not time gated.

    For Astral weapons, I have to do a 7 day time gated quest and wait many hours for meteors. I will do this, but in comparison to the othher stuff you have to do for the collection, it's not equal. Maybe that was never the goal, but it's like that.

    Its terrible, that game offers longterm activities. One more time, you DONT have to do it. Most of the activities are optional. So stop searching for problems, where they are not. If I may suggest search for bugs which are in some collections, much more meritorious.

    My post was rather neutral, I don't see how you feel triggered to lecture me on how I'm supposed to play the game. I stated that the Astral weapons are more tedious to get than Dragonsblood and I said why. Do you have a different opinion on that?

    they are not difficult to get
    for dragons blood weapons you need 18 exquisite jewels and you can get 3-4 per day if your lucky to get 1 from the meta so that's 5-7 days
    the astral collection requires 7 days of simple tasks per day that wont take 5 mins and 3k powder and ores, and you farm those in 3 days easily with out farming hearts if you take 2-3 hrs per day to farm with a multi map squad. so they both take around 7 days to do and even the powder you can buy it from the tp and you cant buy the exquisite jewels and the plate will rise up in price when the map dies. im sorry but you are the one that chooses to see it more tedious and difficult when it's far easier than dragons blood, it's literally going in different maps press 2 then 3 then move to the next map and repeat until u hit the cap when the dragons blood one requires 2 successful metas which by time will die and no one will do them but the powder and ores you solo farm them if you want to get more loot then 5 ppl are enough not a full squad

  • Krizek.5672Krizek.5672 Member ✭✭

    @Faaris.8013 said:

    @Krizek.5672 said:

    @Faaris.8013 said:

    @Etria.3642 said:
    In less than one hour I got 390 kralk and 465 powdered quartz. All from meteors, thanks to a multimap farm. At this rate it'll take me a week. The Dragonsblood ones took me much longer--there is no easy peasy way to get them other than hearts and events. And getting them included map comp on several characters.

    I was able to craft the 6 Dragonsblood weapons within 4 days, but I'm not even able to buy the recipes for the Astral weapons yet. It takes a 7 day quest just to get started. Just yesterday we talked about this in guild chat and we all agreed that in comparison, the aquisition of Astral weapons is out of line. You need 500 kralk ore, 10 times more than Branded Masses. But you only get 5 times more from Heart vendors. Ok, I got a lot from mining meteors on multiple maps. But in comparison to Dragonsbloos weapons, it's a lot of standing around waiting for stuff. In Thunderhead Peaks, I used 13 characters to do the Gorrik Heart, which takes less than one minute to complete, and buy the item to get into the dungeon on the TP, for the gems. I think there was a quest for the recipes as well, but not time gated.

    For Astral weapons, I have to do a 7 day time gated quest and wait many hours for meteors. I will do this, but in comparison to the othher stuff you have to do for the collection, it's not equal. Maybe that was never the goal, but it's like that.

    Its terrible, that game offers longterm activities. One more time, you DONT have to do it. Most of the activities are optional. So stop searching for problems, where they are not. If I may suggest search for bugs which are in some collections, much more meritorious.

    My post was rather neutral, I don't see how you feel triggered to lecture me on how I'm supposed to play the game. I stated that the Astral weapons are more tedious to get than Dragonsblood and I said why. Do you have a different opinion on that?

    As you can see I do. We are talking about optional things. If you do them, you should accept terms. If you dont like it (too much grind in your opinion), still an option. Problem in general is, that you want it ASAP. One week or two weeks to complete those 6 weapons isnt too much time, considering that we will wait a long time until new content.

    And I definitely dont tell you how to play the game since we are talking about optional things. I still stand up that, if you put your energy into complaining about bugs rather than things that are already set and where isnt any problem.

  • Rasimir.6239Rasimir.6239 Member ✭✭✭✭

    On the subject of powdered rose quarz: It does drop in generous amounts off the home instance node. The people I know that farm their home instance fairly regularly all have an overflow of quarz in their material storage by know. I know I have about five or six stellar weapons unlocked because I've crafted one each time my 2k material storage was full of the stuff, so the quarz for more astral weapons will accumulate all by itself over time, without any farming involved.

  • Faaris.8013Faaris.8013 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 3, 2019

    @PervMonk.4891 said:
    they are not difficult to get
    ...so they both take around 7 days to do

    So how does it come I'm already done with the 6 Dragonsblood weapons but don't even have the recipes to craft Astral weapons? I started the same day. It's day 5 of the Brandstorm Research achievement for me, and it looks like tomorrow I'll be stuck because I see people complaining about the quest "Defend Akili while he recalibrates mirrors around the Astralarium". It looks like the quest is bugged and she's stuck in a loop.

    And who said it's difficult to get? Not me certainly.

    @Krizek.5672 said:

    Problem in general is, that you want it ASAP.

    How do you know I want it ASAP? I think you should re-read my post carefully because you are jumping to conclusions that cannot be found in my words. Dragonsblood weapons are cheaper and can be crafted faster than Astral weapons. That's all I'm saying.

    I'm not in a hurry, I crafted Bolt a day before the last episode arrived, and I don't have enough resources to craft a Mystic Tribute right now.

  • Rasimir.6239Rasimir.6239 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Faaris.8013 said:

    @PervMonk.4891 said:
    they are not difficult to get
    ...so they both take around 7 days to do

    So how does it come I'm already done with the 6 Dragonsblood weapons but don't even have the recipes to craft Astral weapons?

    You must've gotten extremely lucky with serpentite jewel drops if you've managed to craft 6 of those weapons in less than 5 days. That is, unless you circumvented the timegate on the dragonsblood weapons by collecting the daily resources beforehand.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭

    I don't have big worry to get that Vision, but I like this hype, and make 200+ gold from sell Rose powders on trading post.
    Don't see any issue if someone lazy to farm it few weeks. Always have for example way buy gems, transfer to gold, and buy my and other players rose powder

    Anyway this is LEGENDARY item, and the way to get it can be year, or two years, why not?
    Now then I see scary "I need farm week" - this is strange.
    Don't want ? so don't do. Take Istan wvw track, and go play. After 12 cycle tracks go and buy from TP powder and close that collection.
    Relax and play. (c)Fractal God

  • Krizek.5672Krizek.5672 Member ✭✭

    @Faaris.8013 said:

    @Krizek.5672 said:

    Problem in general is, that you want it ASAP.

    How do you know I want it ASAP? I think you should re-read my post carefully because you are jumping to conclusions that cannot be found in my words. Dragonsblood weapons are cheaper and can be crafted faster than Astral weapons. That's all I'm saying.

    I'm not in a hurry, I crafted Bolt a day before the last episode arrived, and I don't have enough resources to craft a Mystic Tribute right now.

    If you dont want it ASAP, where is the problem?

    You are still arguing that Astral weapons are more expensive than Dragonsblood weapons. Still dont see the problem. There are 2 sets of different weapons with different amount of required resources. It would be the same when I say that Kudzu is more expensive than Dreamer. Apples and oranges ...

    If I do simple math.
    For one Astral weapon you need 500 ore. One heart gives you 25 ore, that means do 20x heart. Also huge aspect is meteor farm. Daily cap is between 750 - 1000 ore (I believe its 750, but some says its more, because event meteors doesnt count) + you got some events like Paladawan, Great Hall and that champion pirate (maybe even more). For opening recipes you need to do achievement which is timegated but low requirements on recources. When you finnish that one, recipe cost 10 ore, which I believe is really low price.

    On the other hand for Dragonsblood weapon you need only 60 ore. One heart gives you 5, that means do12x heart. On the map you got limited ore nodes, 25 per day, which gives 0 - 3 ore (maybe I got bad luck, but lately from most of them I got 0 ore). You have two metas, which give 5 ore per event.

    And there comes different aproach. If you got multiple characters, so its much easier to do Dragonsblood weapon via just doing multiple hearts, but keep in mind that there are players who dont have a lot of them. I believe you can get 5 characters without gems.

    And if I go even futher. Those sets of weapons are pre-requisition for ascended ones. And there is situation much different. For one stellar weapon you need Irradiated vision crystal (500 ore, 1 rose quartz, 1 vision crystal and 10 ecto).
    For Heroic Dragonsblood weapon you need to buy one item which costs 50g + 100 ore and then craft it very similar as stellar weapon + achievement Chasing tales 5g + 100 ore per achievement. In total for one weapon 55g + 200 ore.

    As I said before dont mix two different things into one. It is as it is, accept it or leave it.

    So if you read this carefully what do you think?

  • kratan.4619kratan.4619 Member ✭✭✭

    @Etria.3642 said:
    In less than one hour I got 390 kralk and 465 powdered quartz. All from meteors, thanks to a multimap farm. At this rate it'll take me a week. The Dragonsblood ones took me much longer--there is no easy peasy way to get them other than hearts and events. And getting them included map comp on several characters.

    Don't forget there are 20+ dwarven chests that will give you a branded mass each once a day. Granted it can take a bit of time to reach all of them, but when the other options ran out i would look for these.

  • Eloc Freidon.5692Eloc Freidon.5692 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Astral - 6 Weapons - 3000 Kralkarite ore + 3000 Powdered Rose Quartz
    Dragonblood - 6 weapons - 360 Branded Masses

    Hearts that sell Kralk ore are in 25 while Branded masses are 3. On paper its about the same value. Of course the people designing this forgot all the other factors that really throw the process well out of proportion.

    The biggest issue is that the amount of materials is comparable to making the ascended ones aside from the ascended weapon pieces. The ore and powdered materials is just an insane grind compared to all the other collections.

    Lets also not forget that this really turned the trinket into an immense ecto dump. At least you only need 100 Funerary Insense.

  • PervMonk.4891PervMonk.4891 Member ✭✭✭

    @ZeroTheCat.2684 said:
    The elitism and arrogance from people in this thread is appalling... This community is really taking a turn downhill.

    elitism in open world pve, wow what a time to be alive

  • Etria.3642Etria.3642 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 3, 2019

    @Faaris.8013 said:

    @Etria.3642 said:
    In less than one hour I got 390 kralk and 465 powdered quartz. All from meteors, thanks to a multimap farm. At this rate it'll take me a week. The Dragonsblood ones took me much longer--there is no easy peasy way to get them other than hearts and events. And getting them included map comp on several characters.

    I was able to craft the 6 Dragonsblood weapons within 4 days, but I'm not even able to buy the recipes for the Astral weapons yet. It takes a 7 day quest just to get started. Just yesterday we talked about this in guild chat and we all agreed that in comparison, the aquisition of Astral weapons is out of line. You need 500 kralk ore, 10 times more than Branded Masses. But you only get 5 times more from Heart vendors. Ok, I got a lot from mining meteors on multiple maps. But in comparison to Dragonsbloos weapons, it's a lot of standing around waiting for stuff. In Thunderhead Peaks, I used 13 characters to do the Gorrik Heart, which takes less than one minute to complete, and buy the item to get into the dungeon on the TP, for the gems. I think there was a quest for the recipes as well, but not time gated.

    For Astral weapons, I have to do a 7 day time gated quest and wait many hours for meteors. I will do this, but in comparison to the othher stuff you have to do for the collection, it's not equal. Maybe that was never the goal, but it's like that.

    Ah sorry, we all did the quest part when the episode came out, but didn't care for the looks of the Astral weapons. Yeah, if you had not yet done that part, you're kind of in trouble, as in at least the maps I've seen, Akili is broken, so you can't progress anyway. The daughter who couldn't be bothered to do the quests with us has all the kralk and quartz she now needs but is stuck on Akili.

    So I'll agree that the time-gated part is irritating if you had not done it yet, but the materials are relatively easy(she didn't multimap either, just kept popping into the map. Akili is on day 5, so it took her less than 5 days to accumulate the 3k.
    And she is 25 with a full time job. So no, it isn't a case of school's out, much free time.

  • Etria.3642Etria.3642 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Krizek.5672 said:

    @Faaris.8013 said:

    @Krizek.5672 said:

    Problem in general is, that you want it ASAP.

    How do you know I want it ASAP? I think you should re-read my post carefully because you are jumping to conclusions that cannot be found in my words. Dragonsblood weapons are cheaper and can be crafted faster than Astral weapons. That's all I'm saying.

    I'm not in a hurry, I crafted Bolt a day before the last episode arrived, and I don't have enough resources to craft a Mystic Tribute right now.

    If you dont want it ASAP, where is the problem?

    You are still arguing that Astral weapons are more expensive than Dragonsblood weapons. Still dont see the problem. There are 2 sets of different weapons with different amount of required resources. It would be the same when I say that Kudzu is more expensive than Dreamer. Apples and oranges ...

    If I do simple math.
    For one Astral weapon you need 500 ore. One heart gives you 25 ore, that means do 20x heart. Also huge aspect is meteor farm. Daily cap is between 750 - 1000 ore (I believe its 750, but some says its more, because event meteors doesnt count) + you got some events like Paladawan, Great Hall and that champion pirate (maybe even more). For opening recipes you need to do achievement which is timegated but low requirements on recources. When you finnish that one, recipe cost 10 ore, which I believe is really low price.

    On the other hand for Dragonsblood weapon you need only 60 ore. One heart gives you 5, that means do12x heart. On the map you got limited ore nodes, 25 per day, which gives 0 - 3 ore (maybe I got bad luck, but lately from most of them I got 0 ore). You have two metas, which give 5 ore per event.

    And there comes different aproach. If you got multiple characters, so its much easier to do Dragonsblood weapon via just doing multiple hearts, but keep in mind that there are players who dont have a lot of them. I believe you can get 5 characters without gems.

    And if I go even futher. Those sets of weapons are pre-requisition for ascended ones. And there is situation much different. For one stellar weapon you need Irradiated vision crystal (500 ore, 1 rose quartz, 1 vision crystal and 10 ecto).
    For Heroic Dragonsblood weapon you need to buy one item which costs 50g + 100 ore and then craft it very similar as stellar weapon + achievement Chasing tales 5g + 100 ore per achievement. In total for one weapon 55g + 200 ore.

    As I said before dont mix two different things into one. It is as it is, accept it or leave it.

    So if you read this carefully what do you think?

    The Heroic Dragonsblood weapons--you will receive the 50g item from doing the achievement quest for that weapon and only need to buy the 50g item if you want to make a SECOND. It's still more expensive than a regular ascended, however. And the quests can be somewhat frustrating. I'm still working my way through them.

  • Jayden Reese.9542Jayden Reese.9542 Member ✭✭✭

    @Faaris.8013 said:

    @PervMonk.4891 said:
    they are not difficult to get
    ...so they both take around 7 days to do

    So how does it come I'm already done with the 6 Dragonsblood weapons but don't even have the recipes to craft Astral weapons? I started the same day. It's day 5 of the Brandstorm Research achievement for me, and it looks like tomorrow I'll be stuck because I see people complaining about the quest "Defend Akili while he recalibrates mirrors around the Astralarium". It looks like the quest is bugged and she's stuck in a loop.

    Yeah your example is slightly diff. You avoided a quest from Istan that's been out for 2 years and now you have that extra 7 days or more cause Akili is bugged but idk if its every map. That's why dragon blood was faster for you.

  • Krizek.5672Krizek.5672 Member ✭✭

    @Etria.3642 said:

    @Krizek.5672 said:

    @Faaris.8013 said:

    @Krizek.5672 said:

    Problem in general is, that you want it ASAP.

    How do you know I want it ASAP? I think you should re-read my post carefully because you are jumping to conclusions that cannot be found in my words. Dragonsblood weapons are cheaper and can be crafted faster than Astral weapons. That's all I'm saying.

    I'm not in a hurry, I crafted Bolt a day before the last episode arrived, and I don't have enough resources to craft a Mystic Tribute right now.

    If you dont want it ASAP, where is the problem?

    You are still arguing that Astral weapons are more expensive than Dragonsblood weapons. Still dont see the problem. There are 2 sets of different weapons with different amount of required resources. It would be the same when I say that Kudzu is more expensive than Dreamer. Apples and oranges ...

    If I do simple math.
    For one Astral weapon you need 500 ore. One heart gives you 25 ore, that means do 20x heart. Also huge aspect is meteor farm. Daily cap is between 750 - 1000 ore (I believe its 750, but some says its more, because event meteors doesnt count) + you got some events like Paladawan, Great Hall and that champion pirate (maybe even more). For opening recipes you need to do achievement which is timegated but low requirements on recources. When you finnish that one, recipe cost 10 ore, which I believe is really low price.

    On the other hand for Dragonsblood weapon you need only 60 ore. One heart gives you 5, that means do12x heart. On the map you got limited ore nodes, 25 per day, which gives 0 - 3 ore (maybe I got bad luck, but lately from most of them I got 0 ore). You have two metas, which give 5 ore per event.

    And there comes different aproach. If you got multiple characters, so its much easier to do Dragonsblood weapon via just doing multiple hearts, but keep in mind that there are players who dont have a lot of them. I believe you can get 5 characters without gems.

    And if I go even futher. Those sets of weapons are pre-requisition for ascended ones. And there is situation much different. For one stellar weapon you need Irradiated vision crystal (500 ore, 1 rose quartz, 1 vision crystal and 10 ecto).
    For Heroic Dragonsblood weapon you need to buy one item which costs 50g + 100 ore and then craft it very similar as stellar weapon + achievement Chasing tales 5g + 100 ore per achievement. In total for one weapon 55g + 200 ore.

    As I said before dont mix two different things into one. It is as it is, accept it or leave it.

    So if you read this carefully what do you think?

    The Heroic Dragonsblood weapons--you will receive the 50g item from doing the achievement quest for that weapon and only need to buy the 50g item if you want to make a SECOND. It's still more expensive than a regular ascended, however. And the quests can be somewhat frustrating. I'm still working my way through them.

    OK, my bad. I was misguided, personaly I m not crafting those asc ones yet.

  • Katastroff.1045Katastroff.1045 Member ✭✭✭

    Im gonna go ludicrously spend my time farming. As i write this, im only 1 astral weapon short of finishing the whole Vision 1 collection, cya in game.
    :p

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    I'll also add that I was averaging 30-50 powdered rose quartz per brandstone. Within a month, it'll be back down to around a silver each or 5G per weapon. Pretty reasonable.

    Within a month noone will be doing meteors anymore, again. And that reduces supply by a lot. Average brandstone gain per meteor is around 10 when not in farming zerg - every 15 minutes (or more than 15 minutes, if you happen to miss the meteor, which happens very frequently if you're the only person on the map looking for them).

    Meteors are balanced around assumption that there's a ton of people farming them. When that's not the case, they turn out to be a very, very poor replacement for nodes. This has been known since very first day people seen that mechanic, and the only reason people weren't as loud about it then was because astral weapons' appeal wasn't all that big. That's also the only reason why complains about astral weapons' cost went mostly unnoticed. Now, that Anet have added an additional thing dependant on those, peopl estarted to notice both of those things again.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 3, 2019

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    I'll also add that I was averaging 30-50 powdered rose quartz per brandstone. Within a month, it'll be back down to around a silver each or 5G per weapon. Pretty reasonable.

    Within a month noone will be doing meteors anymore, again. And that reduces supply by a lot. Average brandstone gain per meteor is around 10 when not in farming zerg - every 15 minutes (or more than 15 minutes, if you happen to miss the meteor, which happens very frequently if you're the only person on the map looking for them).

    Meteors are balanced around assumption that there's a ton of people farming them. When that's not the case, they turn out to be a very, very poor replacement for nodes. This has been known since very first day people seen that mechanic, and the only reason people weren't as loud about it then was because astral weapons' appeal wasn't all that big. That's also the only reason why complains about astral weapons' cost went mostly unnoticed. Now, that Anet have added an additional thing dependant on those, peopl estarted to notice both of those things again.

    Nobody had been doing brandstones for the past ~1.5 years since they nerfed them (assumption based on your assumption) and yet the supply of powdered rose quartz dropped to under a silver since then until a week ago. Players still farm home instances which will continue to add onto supply and demand will continue to fall over time as it has significantly happened over the past week.

    The map currency isn’t really an issue as doing the three hearts yields a lot and you can also get a bunch from doing either or both metas.

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 3, 2019

    when the episode come out i did astral/stellar greatsword for fun lolz, I would not have imagined it would serve in the future.
    lucky i had lot of these collections completed due to my "fashion wars" addiction.

    "It's a testament to the folly of the humans and their gods. They say Arah was sacred, but all I see is one big dragon nest."(Rytlock Brimstone)

  • FrizzFreston.5290FrizzFreston.5290 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Not everything needs to be the same effort. Simply because they are LW sets, doesnt mean they take the same time.

  • @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    I'll also add that I was averaging 30-50 powdered rose quartz per brandstone. Within a month, it'll be back down to around a silver each or 5G per weapon. Pretty reasonable.

    Within a month noone will be doing meteors anymore, again. And that reduces supply by a lot. Average brandstone gain per meteor is around 10 when not in farming zerg - every 15 minutes (or more than 15 minutes, if you happen to miss the meteor, which happens very frequently if you're the only person on the map looking for them).

    Meteors are balanced around assumption that there's a ton of people farming them. When that's not the case, they turn out to be a very, very poor replacement for nodes. This has been known since very first day people seen that mechanic, and the only reason people weren't as loud about it then was because astral weapons' appeal wasn't all that big. That's also the only reason why complains about astral weapons' cost went mostly unnoticed. Now, that Anet have added an additional thing dependant on those, peopl estarted to notice both of those things again.

    Nobody had been doing brandstones for the past ~1.5 years since they nerfed them (assumption based on your assumption) and yet the supply of powdered rose quartz dropped to under a silver since then until a week ago. Players still farm home instances which will continue to add onto supply and demand will continue to fall over time as it has significantly happened over the past week.

    The map currency isn’t really an issue as doing the three hearts yields a lot and you can also get a bunch from doing either or both metas.

    Demand has been increasing, not falling at all since the announcement (check Volume chart). But prices are stabilizing, yes.

    https://gw2efficiency.com/tradingpost?filter.search.term=Powdered Rose Quartz

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 3, 2019

    @pinguadoido.6581 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    I'll also add that I was averaging 30-50 powdered rose quartz per brandstone. Within a month, it'll be back down to around a silver each or 5G per weapon. Pretty reasonable.

    Within a month noone will be doing meteors anymore, again. And that reduces supply by a lot. Average brandstone gain per meteor is around 10 when not in farming zerg - every 15 minutes (or more than 15 minutes, if you happen to miss the meteor, which happens very frequently if you're the only person on the map looking for them).

    Meteors are balanced around assumption that there's a ton of people farming them. When that's not the case, they turn out to be a very, very poor replacement for nodes. This has been known since very first day people seen that mechanic, and the only reason people weren't as loud about it then was because astral weapons' appeal wasn't all that big. That's also the only reason why complains about astral weapons' cost went mostly unnoticed. Now, that Anet have added an additional thing dependant on those, peopl estarted to notice both of those things again.

    Nobody had been doing brandstones for the past ~1.5 years since they nerfed them (assumption based on your assumption) and yet the supply of powdered rose quartz dropped to under a silver since then until a week ago. Players still farm home instances which will continue to add onto supply and demand will continue to fall over time as it has significantly happened over the past week.

    The map currency isn’t really an issue as doing the three hearts yields a lot and you can also get a bunch from doing either or both metas.

    Demand has been increasing, not falling at all since the announcement (check Volume chart). But prices are stabilizing, yes.

    https://gw2efficiency.com/tradingpost?filter.search.term=Powdered Rose Quartz

    It’s been decreasing and will continue to do so well into the future unless Anet adds something else that requires them.

    I’m also hesitant to rely on the quantity on buy orders as ‘demand’ because of how easy it is to inflate those numbers. For example, I could play buy orders for 1,000,000 units at the minimum allowable price.

    When I said demand will decrease, I’m referring to people who complete the six weapons they need or abandon it altogether. Demand had been fairly low prior to last week so 99% of the increase was due to the legendary trinket. It’s pretty reasonable to expect demand to drop as they complete their six weapons.

  • @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @pinguadoido.6581 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    I'll also add that I was averaging 30-50 powdered rose quartz per brandstone. Within a month, it'll be back down to around a silver each or 5G per weapon. Pretty reasonable.

    Within a month noone will be doing meteors anymore, again. And that reduces supply by a lot. Average brandstone gain per meteor is around 10 when not in farming zerg - every 15 minutes (or more than 15 minutes, if you happen to miss the meteor, which happens very frequently if you're the only person on the map looking for them).

    Meteors are balanced around assumption that there's a ton of people farming them. When that's not the case, they turn out to be a very, very poor replacement for nodes. This has been known since very first day people seen that mechanic, and the only reason people weren't as loud about it then was because astral weapons' appeal wasn't all that big. That's also the only reason why complains about astral weapons' cost went mostly unnoticed. Now, that Anet have added an additional thing dependant on those, peopl estarted to notice both of those things again.

    Nobody had been doing brandstones for the past ~1.5 years since they nerfed them (assumption based on your assumption) and yet the supply of powdered rose quartz dropped to under a silver since then until a week ago. Players still farm home instances which will continue to add onto supply and demand will continue to fall over time as it has significantly happened over the past week.

    The map currency isn’t really an issue as doing the three hearts yields a lot and you can also get a bunch from doing either or both metas.

    Demand has been increasing, not falling at all since the announcement (check Volume chart). But prices are stabilizing, yes.

    https://gw2efficiency.com/tradingpost?filter.search.term=Powdered Rose Quartz

    It’s been decreasing and will continue to do so well into the future unless Anet adds something else that requires them.

    Your chart does not show Demand, only prices and supply. Demand is increasing over time, as gw2 efficiency shows.

    Check blue line. It's clear that there is a trend line going upwards for the demand.

  • I posted before your edit.

  • phs.6089phs.6089 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 3, 2019

    I dunno, Im person that gets along with farm/timegate etc as far as there is shiny I want at the end but I think 6 astral weapons are a bit overturned.
    I get it all that kralk is 25 per heart, that dragonblood ask laurels etc. Still isn't it bit much for Istan? Especially after heavy nerfs

    "There is always a lighthouse, there's always a man, there's always a city."

  • JDub.1530JDub.1530 Member ✭✭✭

    There is nothing that states the efforts of individual parts need be equal. Aurora had druid stones, which seemed to consume much greater time and effort than most other portions of that collection. But every Legendary seems to have 2 things in common: massive resource sink, and timegating. The timegating for PvP, WvW, and raids are pretty straightforward. Not so much for open world PvE, where they don't really have a strong setup for forcing you to play content for so long to get required items. Druid stones seems to be an ad hoc timegate for Aurora. Astral (and Dragonsblood) weapons seem to be the timegate for Vision. And it's a fairly soft timegate too, because (1) people could have already had them farmed from when those episodes released, and (2) there is no hard per day cap on materials. Druid stones were a per day account cap. But you can send any number of alts to Thunderhead and Istan to farm hearts. Map activities always drop the materials, reward tracks can be repeated, and while Branded Mass nodes have a daily account cap, meteor strikes don't.

    That's not to say it's not going to take time--I think it's supposed to. That not all maps require the same amount of large time dedication is what makes it appear the collections are imbalanced, when this is likely working as intended.

  • MetalGirl.2370MetalGirl.2370 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 3, 2019

    Of course that majority of the people will defend Anet no matter what.
    You people should be outraged at the fact that Anet has no care for your lives and the fact that they expect you to do only GW2 in all your free time.
    Say bye to your hundreds or thousands of games on Steam if you have only 2h after your work cuz you're bound to GW2.
    They don't care that you'd like to play GW2 AND other games.

    Let's say you got kids and only 2h after work. You'd have 0 time for GW2...or maybe you'd choose it over your kids... idk. But Anet certainly forces you to choose.

    STOP TELLING ME I'M NOT FORCED TO DO SOMETHING - I AM AN AP HUNTER SO YES, I HAVE TO DO IT
    ....AND GIVE HAIRSTYLES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Iris Ng.9845Iris Ng.9845 Member ✭✭✭

    It's like how people complain about the 10k drink requirement for Winter's Presence when it first came out, again. I remember people were doing maths, statistics, etc. and generally burst into outrage when the price of the drinks was like 10s /piece. After a year, it quickly dropped down to 3s, and now, 1s.

    The same thing happens for Rose Quartz. You have a steady supply, but a rush in demands will push people out to pay a premium for it - and they ain't happy. However, if it takes them time to farm it, they ain't happy either.

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