GW2's odd version of flying . . . Why can't your mount, like Just. Fly.?? — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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GW2's odd version of flying . . . Why can't your mount, like Just. Fly.??

Reading the following in another thread:

"I just realized something. With the Skyscale, this is an infinite elevator though a slow one. Get to the highest point you can with the skyscale/springer, jump with the springer, Bound of Faith, glide, mount the Skyscale (that's the first mastery and works just like the Griffon). Use your new flight bar to go up, hover until Bound of Faith cools down, repeat. Unless you lose as much or more altitude gliding before you can re-mount, you could go as high as you wanted this way."

Holy. Moly.

In other MMOs, let's just say WoW for now, but there are numerous others,
when you get a flying mount,

It.
Just.
Flies.

No gliding, climbing, launching, jumping, etc.

Just.
Like.
An.
Actual.
Bird.
You know, it just takes off, flies through the sky, and then lands wherever it feels like.
Like an actual Eagle, Condor, Robin, Wren, Starling, Crow, or

Pterodactyl.

What gives?
Flight by bird-like beings has been around for Billions of Years.

Why complicate it so much?

What EXACTLY is the point with flying mounts GW2 wants to make SO COMPLICATED???

<1345

Comments

  • @Trise.2865 said:
    Three words: "fly-over zones". You play WoW, so you know what that term means, and why GW2 should avoid it like the plague.

    Please explain to me in plain words,
    how a bird,
    behaving exactly like a real bird,
    is somehow artificial?

  • @Airdive.2613 said:

    @Kabuki Theatre.9752 said:

    @Trise.2865 said:
    Three words: "fly-over zones". You play WoW, so you know what that term means, and why GW2 should avoid it like the plague.

    Please explain to me in plain words,
    how a bird,
    behaving exactly like a real bird,
    is somehow artificial?

    If we're talking pure realism, real birds aren't even used as mounts.
    Personally, I have no idea if they can fly at all with a noticeable additional load (a rider) on their back.

    Actual predator birds have been known to carry up to 150% of their weight in their talons.
    It is not a far stretch at all to imagine they could carry the same weight on their backs.
    My question still remains:

    Please explain to me in plain words,
    how a bird,
    behaving exactly like a real bird,
    is somehow artificial?

    And why is GW2 so very reluctant to replicate that?

  • @ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

    @Kabuki Theatre.9752 said:

    @Trise.2865 said:
    Three words: "fly-over zones". You play WoW, so you know what that term means, and why GW2 should avoid it like the plague.

    Please explain to me in plain words,
    how a bird,
    behaving exactly like a real bird,
    is somehow artificial?

    By carrying a person on its back when it shouldn't be.

    And the mythical Griffon and Skyscale is being realistic by carrying people on its back?
    At least an Eagle can carry off a sheep with no problem at all.

  • @ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

    @Kabuki Theatre.9752 said:

    @ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

    @Kabuki Theatre.9752 said:

    @Trise.2865 said:
    Three words: "fly-over zones". You play WoW, so you know what that term means, and why GW2 should avoid it like the plague.

    Please explain to me in plain words,
    how a bird,
    behaving exactly like a real bird,
    is somehow artificial?

    By carrying a person on its back when it shouldn't be.

    And the mythical Griffon and Skyscale is being realistic by carrying people on its back?
    At least an Eagle can carry off a sheep with no problem at all.

    You asked how a bird in this game, behaving like a real bird, is artificial.

    It's artificial because it's carrying a person on its back. When a real bird that can take flight carries a person on its back let me know.

    It is artificial because it is a false construct.
    Birds do not going through a false discombobulation of jumping, leaping, gliding, and caterwauling
    Just.
    Simply.
    To.
    Fly.

    It is an artificial construct by GW2 to imagine a flying creature that does not even
    begin to mimic nature.
    Something that would be so easy to do.

  • @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @Kabuki Theatre.9752 said:
    how a bird,
    behaving exactly like a real bird,
    is somehow artificial?

    No one is making that argument.
    Because (a) a Griffon is not a bird, (b) a Griffon doesn't exist in our world, (c) and everything in GW2 is artificial in some way besides the obvious.


    There are, however, lots of reasons why it would be bad for Guild Wars 2, and fine for other games.

    • GW2 already allows skipping zones by use of waypoints; mount travel is slower.
    • Other games tend to have more stuff that people want to skip; generally, all zones in GW2 have potentially interesting areas.
    • Everything in GW2 is balanced (theoretically). Each mount is setup to have their own niche, to be less useful in some arenas. Each is setup to have advantages/disadvantages compared to 'walking'.

    In the end, it's a design choice: it's more fun this way (in ANet's opinion, and that of many players).

    Actually, it seems otherwise . . .
    GW2 wants you to spend the time, energy, blood, sweat, tears and
    (not insignificantly)
    GOLD,
    to acquire a half-dozen or more mounts to accomplish the same thing
    that two
    would easily accomplish:
    A land-based creature,
    and a Bird.

  • @EmmetOtter.8542 said:
    When you think of a magical flying beast strong enough to carry a fully armored Knight into battle, you do expect that it magically has unlimited stamina capable of soaring into the stratosphere and flying around the entire globe.

    Skyscale falls way short of that.

    If 8 tiny wingless reindeer can pull a fat man's sled around the world non-stop in 1 night, you'd think a dragon could do a little better.

    Well, you have a point.

    The Raptor mount is a perfectly realistic example of
    a prehistoric animal, pretty much portrayed realistically in
    "Jurassic Park" movie.
    It was at least based on archeological evidence unearthed by scientists.
    based on skeletal reconstruction.
    I can accept that perfectly.
    AND, very well done.

    There are MANY animals in GW2 that are realistic portrayals of nature and
    existing animals. I don't need to list them all here.

    However, the Griffon is a totally false construct. Totally. Completely. Unrepentantly.
    And then to say "Well, it's artificial
    Well, how do you relate it to the other Completely Accurate reconstructions of Earthly animals?

    It's An Utterly False Construct.

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The game was not built to have true flying in it and thank god it isn't. Flying would make every other mount 100% useless and exploring becomes boring as hell. They'd have to introduce even more invisible barriers or mechanics that stop you from just flying into areas you're not supposed to get into. Which is another point: WoW is enormous open areas, GW2 has many instanced maps that aren't connected without a loading screen. You can't just have one gigantic load zone around maps either.

    I rather choose death.

  • EmmetOtter.8542EmmetOtter.8542 Member ✭✭✭

    It's a fantasy roleplaying computer game. They can do whatever they want. Anet could have made it look like a paper bag and called it flying, as long as it actually transported me through the air for as long as I wanted to be in the air.

    Right now we got an undersized, asthmatic, out of shape, "dragon" that's gasping for breath and needs a break after like 200 yards.

    When dragons picked teams for Dragon Ball, this guy wouldn't get picked until last and then they were all like "I don't want Gilbert, you take him" and "Naw man, I got him last time". This is what we got for a flyer.

    And sadly, it's the best we got so yeah I'm going to bust my but getting him.

  • @Erasculio.2914 said:

    @Kabuki Theatre.9752 said:
    Well, you have a point.

    The Raptor mount is a perfectly realistic example of
    a prehistoric animal

    Not really. For a raptor to be a perfectly realistic example of a dinossaur, it would need to have feathers.

    The fossil evidence is still out on that.
    Most paleontologists are divided on that issue.
    There are peer-reviewed journal research articles that come down on either side of that viewpoint.

  • @EmmetOtter.8542 said:
    It's a fantasy roleplaying computer game. They can do whatever they want. Anet could have made it look like a paper bag and called it flying, as long as it actually transported me through the air for as long as I wanted to be in the air.

    Right now we got an undersized, asthmatic, out of shape, "dragon" that's gasping for breath and needs a break after like 200 yards.

    When dragons picked teams for Dragon Ball, this guy wouldn't get picked until last and then they were all like "I don't want Gilbert, you take him" and "Naw man, I got him last time". This is what we got for a flyer.

    And sadly, it's the best we got so yeah I'm going to bust my but getting him.

    I know.
    And my point still is . . .
    The GW2 team tried to put a completely discombobulated false, artificial, construct
    of a mount into place.
    And they failed.
    Why?

    BECAUSE IT MIMICS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING IN REAL LIFE!

    At least the Raptor is believable.
    It seems like a real animal.
    It moves, shimmies, sits, rises, scratches itself,
    does sooo many things a REAL animal would do.

    If you have a pet, you will know exactly what I am saying.

    The Griffon and Skyscale mimic absolutely NOTHING in real life.
    That is why they FEEL false,
    feel like a mockery of real animals,
    and that is why they fail.

  • @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kabuki Theatre.9752 said:

    Also please stop typing with a new line after every word, is obnoxious.

    Our writing styles differ.
    Are you the English Professor on this forum,
    who has the ability to critique others who do not follow your dictates?

    Get a grip.

    No I am not the English Professor on this forum, but I do have the ability to critique others as do everybody else. You are allowed to listen or not, it doesn't matter as I am not your mother. But it would help to at least try to hear what other people thinks, especially when you are trying to voice an opinion on a topic.

    But you criticized my writing style,

    I was not so crude to criticize yours.

    I don't have to resort to petty ad hominem attacks, based on writing styles.

  • EmmetOtter.8542EmmetOtter.8542 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kabuki Theatre.9752 said:
    If you have a pet, you will know exactly what I am saying.

    The Griffon and Skyscale mimic absolutely NOTHING in real life.
    That is why they FEEL false,
    feel like a mockery of real animals,
    and that is why they fail.

    I do not care about that. Skyscale is advertised as a flying mount and it flies, for an absurdly short distance. Like a car capable of a max speed of 30 mph that quits after 5 blocks and you have to wait until it rolls to a slow stop before starting it again and driving for another 5 blocks.

    It barely qualifies. And the limitation is intended. And it's annoying. But since the game really doesn't have anything better...

  • @TheGrill.4896 said:

    @Kabuki Theatre.9752 said:

    @Erasculio.2914 said:

    @Kabuki Theatre.9752 said:
    Well, you have a point.

    The Raptor mount is a perfectly realistic example of
    a prehistoric animal

    Not really. For a raptor to be a perfectly realistic example of a dinossaur, it would need to have feathers.

    The fossil evidence is still out on that.
    Most paleontologists are divided on that issue.
    There are peer-reviewed journal research articles that come down on either side of that viewpoint.

    I suppose you haven’t seen the fossils for Yutyrannus, Microraptor, or Archeopteryx but that’s besides the point here.

    I simply do not accept or believe that false analogy "game balance" as
    the be all and end all excuse for "anything goes and nothing is impossible"
    mentality for MMOs.

    You can't have your cake and eat it too.

  • @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @Kabuki Theatre.9752 said:
    And how Exactly
    would it "ruin the game."?

    Before mounts were introduced, the game had a set traveling mechanic: waypoints, plus by foot. If you could fly over everything just like that, not only would old means of traveling become obsolete, new maps would also no longer pose a challenge at all when it comes to map completion (as verticality would no longer matter). The point of map completion is to thoroughly explore a new map.

    I would like to ask you one simple question ---
    How is it that so many other MMOs
    have implemented flying creatures into their games,
    without completely destroying their creations?

    Is this not possible within the GW2 environment?
    OR

    is GW2 the great exception to the rule?

  • Zaklex.6308Zaklex.6308 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kabuki Theatre.9752 said:

    @ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

    @Kabuki Theatre.9752 said:

    @ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

    @Kabuki Theatre.9752 said:

    @Trise.2865 said:
    Three words: "fly-over zones". You play WoW, so you know what that term means, and why GW2 should avoid it like the plague.

    Please explain to me in plain words,
    how a bird,
    behaving exactly like a real bird,
    is somehow artificial?

    By carrying a person on its back when it shouldn't be.

    And the mythical Griffon and Skyscale is being realistic by carrying people on its back?
    At least an Eagle can carry off a sheep with no problem at all.

    You asked how a bird in this game, behaving like a real bird, is artificial.

    It's artificial because it's carrying a person on its back. When a real bird that can take flight carries a person on its back let me know.

    It is artificial because it is a false construct.
    Birds do not going through a false discombobulation of jumping, leaping, gliding, and caterwauling
    Just.
    Simply.
    To.
    Fly.

    It is an artificial construct by GW2 to imagine a flying creature that does not even
    begin to mimic nature.
    Something that would be so easy to do.

    Actually, if you did some research you would find that there are real birds that do some of the above before taking flight, they may not do all 4 together but there are birds that do 1 of those things before it takes off...so it's not really artificial at all. No, I will not find them for you, if it's that important to you then look it up yourself, or you can just believe I've watched enough nature programs to know better.

    Yes...no...maybe...what do you want, can't you see I'm busy saving the world...AGAIN!

  • @joneirikb.7506 said:

    • It's a Design decision. The developers didn't want players to have a mount that "just flies". (For several reasons we can guess at, but only they can confirm, and it doesn't really matter since it's their choice anyways).
    • Realism in a video game is whatever the developers says it is.
    • How many birds have you seen carry a fully grown man on its back, and for how long ?

    Realism:

    We have a game where we kill dragons with circus-toy-weapons, run around in costumes so dumb looking even a Disney princess wouldn't be seen in it, where npc's hail the biggest murder-hobo in the world that goes around seeing ghosts, talking to the air, murdering random critters out of random, sits by and watch as centaurs slaughter them, as the great savior commander of the world. I'm fairly confident that the Player Character acting the way they do would have gotten hung at any part of history prior to 1900, and put in an asylum at any period after, if we where going to be realistic.

    And lets not get into the topic of hover-crafting lazer great-swords with purple glows and rainbows!

    Oh, and we can walk on illusions projected by light from Asura machines. Go physics!

    I mean if we're going to get realistic then start adding: Stamina bars that deplete constantly while mounted and more if rushing, the need to buy new saddles, horse-shoes (or similar), constantly feed, train, deal with bad days as the mount refuses to out in rain or snow, panicking at all the monsters around in the world, running away while you're mining a node, and refusing to jump out that cliffs edge throwing you off instead. So much fun.


    TLDR: Don't mix realism with game mechanics/design, the game is supposed to be fun and "gamey". Making each mount have different but limited movement abilities is a way to give gamers some new gamey ways to deal with situations in new ways.

    THIS!!!
    This is by far

    BY FAR

    the most intelligent,
    succinct
    and having the most Bravado
    of any response on this thread so far!!

    Excellent, Sir or Madame!!

  • Graymalkyn.8076Graymalkyn.8076 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 4, 2019

    Well, at the risk of sounding flippant...it's because it's Tyria...not Earth. Maybe the gravity is too strong for extended flight, or the air too thin. Within the game, it really is up to you to come up with your own reason. IRL, the folks at Anet have actually stated they did this for reasons mentioned above: they don't want people simply flying over everything. The way points already allow you to bypass most of the content...I guess they want us to enjoy the rest.

    BTW, irl a chicken has wings, and can launch itself off the ground, but cannot fly. 'Course, can't hover either.

    We are what we write; our language defines us.

  • @TheGrill.4896 said:

    @Kabuki Theatre.9752 said:

    @TheGrill.4896 said:

    @Kabuki Theatre.9752 said:

    @Erasculio.2914 said:

    @Kabuki Theatre.9752 said:
    Well, you have a point.

    The Raptor mount is a perfectly realistic example of
    a prehistoric animal

    Not really. For a raptor to be a perfectly realistic example of a dinossaur, it would need to have feathers.

    The fossil evidence is still out on that.
    Most paleontologists are divided on that issue.
    There are peer-reviewed journal research articles that come down on either side of that viewpoint.

    I suppose you haven’t seen the fossils for Yutyrannus, Microraptor, or Archeopteryx but that’s besides the point here.

    I simply do not accept or believe that false analogy "game balance" as
    the be all and end all excuse for "anything goes and nothing is impossible"
    mentality for MMOs.

    You can't have your cake and eat it too.

    This game is not WoW and it won’t be like it when it comes to mounts. I don’t know what else to tell you.

    I certainly don't expect it to be anything like WoW,
    nor would I want it to be, at all.

    However, the bird mounts in WoW are far
    more realistic than GW2,
    because they don't impose these artificial constructs where they do not need to exist.
    They just behave
    like real birds.

  • notebene.3190notebene.3190 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The type of flying you are talking about is more akin to swimming in the sky. I really enjoy their implementation for the most part, and admire the direction they took.

    In the event I don't get a chance, thank you all for the company and help when I needed it from time to time.

  • @yusayu.3629 said:
    In WoW mounts are glorified speedboosts. It's one of the amazing designs in GW2, that all the mounts feel different, and you actually have to do something to stay in the air (the griffon can permanently stay in the air with all the masteries). WoW mounts are incredibly boring.

    WoW mounts are boring to those who have not mastered them.

  • @yusayu.3629 said:
    In WoW mounts are glorified speedboosts. It's one of the amazing designs in GW2, that all the mounts feel different, and you actually have to do something to stay in the air (the griffon can permanently stay in the air with all the masteries). WoW mounts are incredibly boring.

    WoW mounts are only incredibly boring to people that have not totally mastered them.
    If you spend the time, energy, sweat, and purpose, they are exceedingly resourceful adjuncts.
    Worth every penny of time spent, and flamboyantly desirable possessions.
    Beyond belief if you get a Really, Really Good One.

  • @Sila.6748 said:

    @Kabuki Theatre.9752 said:

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @Kabuki Theatre.9752 said:
    And how Exactly
    would it "ruin the game."?

    Before mounts were introduced, the game had a set traveling mechanic: waypoints, plus by foot. If you could fly over everything just like that, not only would old means of traveling become obsolete, new maps would also no longer pose a challenge at all when it comes to map completion (as verticality would no longer matter). The point of map completion is to thoroughly explore a new map.

    I would like to ask you one simple question ---
    How is it that so many other MMOs
    have implemented flying creatures into their games,
    without completely destroying their creations?

    Is this not possible within the GW2 environment?
    OR

    is GW2 the great exception to the rule?

    Propose a flying mount in Guild Wars 2, and there’s an obvious challenge in that its content to date has been designed with players’ feet firmly on the ground.

    “We knew we had to be careful with how we went about tackling ‘flying’ in the game,” says Cronacher. “If we did free flight it would break a lot of content and invalidate the other mounts, which we didn’t want to do. We had to find a balance of feeling like the flight was natural and fun, but focused on player skill and manipulation, rather than free omnidirectional flight.”

    They dont WANT omnidirectional free flight. This is what they have chosen for their game. If you don't like it, this game is not for you.

    Again, yet another response of --

    If you don't like that game,
    pick your bat, ball, and gloves,
    and go somewhere else.

    Brilliant.
    Just Brilliant.