GW2's odd version of flying . . . Why can't your mount, like Just. Fly.?? - Page 3 — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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GW2's odd version of flying . . . Why can't your mount, like Just. Fly.??

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  • LucianDK.8615LucianDK.8615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Well said, its probably one of the best arguments for that the gw2 model of flying is far superior to wow's.

  • kurfu.5623kurfu.5623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @BlueJin.4127 said:

    @kurfu.5623 said:
    That's not flying, it's falling with style.

    I upvoted you. Are we old?

    Heh... I was already old when that movie was released.

    This is my signature. It is not very exciting.

  • derd.6413derd.6413 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @BlueJin.4127 said:

    @kurfu.5623 said:
    That's not flying, it's falling with style.

    I upvoted you. Are we old?

    no, just past our childhood

    I Have No friends, so I Must pug

  • BlueJin.4127BlueJin.4127 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 4, 2019

    First of all, I was talking about WoW in the post you quoted. I agree, I'd prefer not to have flying in current GW2 maps. But, again, I'm not talking about GW2. :smile:

    Second, again, you're comment about flying is not a fact. Flying is not a design flaw. It is not an issue to level design. It's not a redundancy. Flying is no more of a flaw than a 3D game is a flaw compared to 2D games. Flying simply results in different types of game design and experience. A game world designed with flying is not redundant because of flying. It creates an experience that simply cannot be mimicked by just being grounded.

    While WoW didn't have much gameplay mechanics that took advantage of flying, it still created an experience for some players that cannot be mimicked by being grounded all the time. Also, players could already skip enemies* in WoW without flying. Flying simply increased what players could skip. Flying was a flaw in the opinion of players who believed that you should only be able to bypass (to use number as a scale) 2, but it was a solution to others who wanted to bypass 4. Neither side is right, neither is a fact. They just have different preferences on the same scale.

    *I don't think WoW had any actual mechanics you could skip with flying. It simply allowed you to skip more enemies than you would if grounded, and let you move around faster. I think they do have some jumping puzzles and stuff now, though.

    ^^

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    And in other games, like WoW, every expansion after TBC which introduced the flying mount, the developer has sought to restrict if not remove flying completely.

    You're not going to get the answer you want here. If you want a pure flying mount, uninstall GW2 and move back to WoW.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Since you are talking about making mounts behave like real birds, I'll give you one reason why GW2 mounts do not fly: biology.
    Birds that fly (gracefully) have massive wings, compared to their body size, which is why they can fly as they do. In contrast, the Griffon and the Skyscale have very large bodies compared to their wingspans, making it realistically impossible for them to be able to fly like birds. Furthermore, real birds have aerodynamic bodies, developed over millions of years to excel at flying. The Griffon and the Skyscale aren't built for flight, they have huge legs that can cause lots of drag.

    I don't care how most WoW mounts look like, but if they fly like birds while looking like our GW2 mounts, then they should be using magic, because realistically they shouldn't be able to fly, only glide.

  • I agree with earlier posters that realism isn't that important here, but I do think it's interesting to compare the flight we have in game with what would be realistic - inasmuch as that's possible, given that griffons and skyscales don't really exist. (Also the OP's main objection to flight in GW2 seems to be related to 'realism', not gameplay.)

    Contrary to what the OP seems to believe, birds are not actually capable of unrestricted flight. Hummingbirds appear to come close, but they're pretty unusual, and other birds have much greater restrictions on what they can do. Added to which, birds really do fly through a combination of flapping and gliding (and, in the case of smaller birds, bounding - folding their wings against their bodies to make themselves more aerodynamic) - there's not really such a thing as "just flying".

    I haven't played WoW since well before they introduced flying mounts, so I watched some videos, and it seems to me that the WoW devs have simply taken their flying mechanics in the opposite direction from ANet. Neither of them is 'wrong' (unless your criterion for being wrong is 'doesn't resemble actual bird flight with 100% accuracy', in which case they're both wrong), they're just different. Implementing 'realistic' flight isn't really possible (and, arguably, not even meaningful), and the WoW devs have opted for a flight system that is (way) less restricted than actual bird flight, whereas ANet have opted for a flight system that is more restricted.

    Personally, I actually find the GW2 flight mechanics more convincing than the WoW ones, particularly those of the griffon since the way flapping and gliding work seems to correspond to actual physics (which is not to say that it's realistic, as such) - but of course, 'convincingness' is subjective, and clearly someone else (such as the OP) might find flight in WoW more convincing.

    On the subject of whether a flying mount could carry a rider, here's a photograph of a weasel flying on the back of a woodpecker! A green woodpecker weighs about 180-220g, whereas a weasel can weigh up to 250g (although they're often much lighter than that) - so it's possible that this woodpecker was carrying more than double its own body weight.

    @Kabuki Theatre.9752 said:
    Flight by bird-like beings has been around for Billions of Years.

    While I realise this isn't relevant to your argument... birds have been around for about 121 million years - much less than a billion, let alone billions. Pterosaurs came into existence around 228 million years ago, and in fact, animals have only existed for 665 million years! (Sources: the obvious Wikipedia pages.)

    The Raptor mount is a perfectly realistic example of
    a prehistoric animal, pretty much portrayed realistically in
    "Jurassic Park" movie.
    It was at least based on archeological evidence unearthed by scientists.
    based on skeletal reconstruction.
    I can accept that perfectly.
    AND, very well done.

    The raptor mount doesn't actually resemble real raptors very closely at all...

  • AlexxxDelta.1806AlexxxDelta.1806 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 4, 2019

    @BlueJin.4127 said:

    Second, again, you're comment about flying is not a fact. Flying is not a design flaw. It is not an issue to level design. It's not a redundancy. Flying is no more of a flaw than a 3D game is a flaw compared to 2D games. Flying simply results in different types of game design and experience. A game world designed with flying is not redundant because of flying. It creates an experience that simply cannot be mimicked by just being grounded.

    Someone posted a Polygon interview above, with the then lead designer of WoW, detailing the reasons for flight being absent from WoD. Here is an a expert :

    "Having looked at how flying has played out in the old world in the last couple of expansions, we realized that while we were doing it out of this ingrained habit after we introduced flying in The Burning Crusade, it actually detracted from gameplay in a whole lot of ways.
    While there was certainly convenience in being able to completely explore the world in three dimensions, that also came at the expense of gameplay like targeted exploration, like trying to figure out what’s in that cave on top of a hill and how do I get up there."

    Granted they had to go back at it, because you can't introduce convenience and then take it back, it never works that way. Although they made sure it was behind a huge grind wall.

    The interesting part though, is that if you now go and watch the GW2 guild chat part, where our devs are commenting on unlimited flight, you will see many similarities. There is a pattern in how the devs of these games see flight affecting the worlds they make.

    You could still dismiss these, as simple points of view, albeit a developer's this time. Is it really though? When the people who create these worlds, and have all the metrics detailing player behavior in-game , are telling you this is not good for the game, that might as well be a fact.

    Edit : Castlemanic's comment, which I agree 100%, appeared after refresh.

  • BlueJin.4127BlueJin.4127 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 4, 2019

    @castlemanic.3198 said:
    Snip

    This is their current direction as a team. However, not all devs on their team agree with this because “flying being an issue from a design point” is not a fact. It’s an opinion. Some devs wanted to take advantage of flying by designing around flying. Devs at Blizzard. Devs working on WoW. These devs just cannot individually say this out in public because they’re not allowed to say so.

    ^^

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 4, 2019

    @BlueJin.4127 said:

    @castlemanic.3198 said:
    Snip

    This is their current direction as a team. However, not all devs on their team agree with this because “flying being an issue from a design point” is not a fact. It’s an opinion. Some devs wanted to take advantage of flying by designing around flying. Devs at Blizzard. Devs working on WoW. These devs just cannot individually say this out in public because they’re not allowed to say so.

    Fair enough, but even some developers seeing issues with a feature makes their opinion more of a fact then the blank statements that flying causes no issues.

    Wanting to build around a mechanic is not the same as the mechanic causing no issues. The very fact that you have to create content around something IS the issue.

    For everything else, the Polygon Article as well as the summary of the WoW issue was posted by me further up.

  • castlemanic.3198castlemanic.3198 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @BlueJin.4127 said:
    This is their current direction as a team. However, not all devs on their team agree with this because “flying being an issue from a design point” is not a fact. It’s an opinion. Some devs wanted to take advantage of flying by designing around flying. Devs at Blizzard. Devs working on WoW. These devs just cannot individually say this out in public because they’re not allowed to say so.

    Can you provide evidence of this? If you have an article or something where the devs have stated that they don't think flying is an issue please share it.

    Whataboutism is disingenuous at best. If you join a debate and provide little to no proof when the other side provides lots of evidence, you can't then declare yourself the winner of that debate. I won't engage with bad faith arguments.

  • coso.9173coso.9173 Member ✭✭✭✭

    as much as I'd love to have actual free flying, I can understand the reason to no have it. many times i participate in events just because i happen to find them around while walk, id i was flying I'd probably skip them, unless it was an event I'm actively looking for. this would mean a lot of people would get less help in events they need because most people would also only participate in events they are interested in, and less participation in random events. also I feel ike flying already makes maps a bit too easy to travel. free flyin would just mean to be able to safely and quickly traverse them without any issues, and that could make some people bored.

  • Diak Atoli.2085Diak Atoli.2085 Member ✭✭✭

    @EmmetOtter.8542 said:
    When you think of a magical flying beast strong enough to carry a fully armored Knight into battle, you do expect that it magically has unlimited stamina capable of soaring into the stratosphere and flying around the entire globe.

    Skyscale falls way short of that.

    If 8 tiny wingless reindeer can pull a fat man's sled around the world non-stop in 1 night, you'd think a dragon could do a little better.

    Actually... If you assume certain aspects of mythology to be true, and consider Santa Claus to be Fae, he'd totally kick a dragon's kitten in a race.

  • EmmetOtter.8542EmmetOtter.8542 Member ✭✭✭

    @Diak Atoli.2085 said:
    Actually... If you assume certain aspects of mythology to be true, and consider Santa Claus to be Fae, he'd totally kick a dragon's kitten in a race.

    Dude would have a Ho-Ho-Heart attack if he tried

  • ShadowGryphon.6257ShadowGryphon.6257 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ashantara.8731 said:
    Have you tried the Griffon? No? It flies. (gasp) ;)

    Okay, I get you. It does not launch from the ground, like the Skyscale. They devided a bird's abilities between the two, it seems. But I believe it is for the better, as otherwise no one would use any of the other means of traversing maps anymore, and it could ruin the game.

    Sorry but gliding does not equal flying.
    To take flight implies the ability to gain altitude. The Gryphon is simply a long distance glider.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ShadowGryphon.6257 said:
    To take flight implies the ability to gain altitude. The Gryphon is simply a long distance glider.

    No, it is not... quite. You can dive with super speed and gain an incredible amount of altitude.

  • DeWolfe.2174DeWolfe.2174 Member ✭✭✭

    @Trise.2865 said:
    Three words: "fly-over zones". You play WoW, so you know what that term means, and why GW2 should avoid it like the plague.

    Every zone is a "fly-over zone" when you can simply way point to a specific area and way point back out again.

  • BlueJin.4127BlueJin.4127 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 5, 2019

    @castlemanic.3198 said:
    Can you provide evidence of this? If you have an article or something where the devs have stated that they don't think flying is an issue please share it.

    No, I cannot. Like I said, employees are not allowed to say certain things out in public. Even without inside info, I’m sure everybody knows that not everybody on the same team agrees with a design.

    Also, I recommend taking articles with a grain of salt. I used to work at a game company and had some connections to other companies, as well. Sometimes, game publishers push complete lies as facts to the public, and I’m not making it sound dramatic or exaggerating. Some of the stuff I know is just... disgusting... Not saying that this particular article people are referencing is BS. Just a general advice. I’m sure this isn’t specific to the game industry.

    ^^

  • Substance E.4852Substance E.4852 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @BlueJin.4127 said:

    @castlemanic.3198 said:
    Can you provide evidence of this? If you have an article or something where the devs have stated that they don't think flying is an issue please share it.

    No, I cannot. Like I said, employees are not allowed to say certain things out in public. Even without inside info, I’m sure everybody knows that not everybody on the same team agrees with a design.

    Also, I recommend taking articles with a grain of salt. I used to work at a game company and had some connections to other companies, as well. Sometimes, game publishers push complete lies as facts to the public, and I’m not making it sound dramatic or exaggerating. Some of the stuff I know is just... disgusting... Not saying that this particular article people are referencing is BS. Just a general advice. I’m sure this isn’t specific to the game industry.

    So in other words, nothing to back up what you said other than that we take your word on it?

    It's also an easily observable fact that having to travel by land involves a level of risk and navigation that is often completely negated by flight.

    Moving across maps in WoW while flying is basically you pointing yourself in the direction you want to go, hitting auto run, and then tabbing out to get a drink and watch some netflix

  • runeblade.7514runeblade.7514 Member ✭✭✭

    @DeWolfe.2174 said:

    @Trise.2865 said:
    Three words: "fly-over zones". You play WoW, so you know what that term means, and why GW2 should avoid it like the plague.

    Every zone is a "fly-over zone" when you can simply way point to a specific area and way point back out again.

    You got to find the waypoint first. Which you can fly over the zones to get to with a true flying mount.

    6x warrior/5xRanger/6x Revenant/6x Mesmer/5x Guardian/6x Thief/5x Engineer/5x Necromancer/5x Elementalist

  • Vyrulisse.1246Vyrulisse.1246 Member ✭✭✭

    People are dancing around it but the fact of the matter is it's because Anet is obsessed with being "different". A lot of the times it's a good thing but sometimes it's just a head scratcher.

  • Ygdrasill.9135Ygdrasill.9135 Member ✭✭✭

    I really haven't found anywhere I can't get to that actually allows mounts and I don't even have the skyscale yet. Keep in mind that mounts were part of WoW from the initial game design so the game space was designed with them in mind. Even so, they've more and more put in artifical limits to using the flying mounts with each new expansion. We should be glad mounts even work in the earlier maps at all. I will flat out admit that the first thing I did when I started playing earlier this year was get Path of Fire, use my level 80 boost (if you do this, don't do it on an Elementalist, trust me) and went for the mounts. I've since run two other characters through the base story, but it was FAR easier than it was probably designed to be because I could move much faster and get to areas much more easily. The Springer is bad enough for breaking what should be difficult to do. The Griffon just turns a lot of things into a face roll. The Skyscale promises to do the same for certain things. Need Volatile magic? Forget Dragonfall, just go to Thunderhead Peak and get it all there. No more having to use the springer and griffon with at least a little finesse.

  • FrizzFreston.5290FrizzFreston.5290 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The mounts in GW2 cant truly fly in order to provide more use to the other mounts. If it could truly fly you wouldnt need the bunny, the skimmer, raptor or jackal, or even the griffon.

    Its a game, not a fantasy flightsimulator. Certain features are limited so other features can shine more.

  • ShadowGryphon.6257ShadowGryphon.6257 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 5, 2019

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @ShadowGryphon.6257 said:
    To take flight implies the ability to gain altitude. The Gryphon is simply a long distance glider.

    No, it is not... quite. You can dive with super speed and gain an incredible amount of altitude.

    Let me reiterate: when a plane is in flight it can gain altitude by either adding power to the engines or using a dive to gain enough speed to then climb.
    The Gryphon's can, at best, maintain a level flight path for a short distance but then they slowly glide towards the ground. And, unless I've missed something, I have yet to have my Gryphon gain altitude on a long glide.
    Putting a Gryphon into a dive and then "pulling up" does not actually lead to a gain in altitude just an increase in speed.

  • ShadowGryphon.6257ShadowGryphon.6257 Member ✭✭✭

    @Airdive.2613 said:

    @ShadowGryphon.6257 said:

    @Ashantara.8731 said:
    Have you tried the Griffon? No? It flies. (gasp) ;)

    Okay, I get you. It does not launch from the ground, like the Skyscale. They devided a bird's abilities between the two, it seems. But I believe it is for the better, as otherwise no one would use any of the other means of traversing maps anymore, and it could ruin the game.

    Sorry but gliding does not equal flying.
    To take flight implies the ability to gain altitude. The Gryphon is simply a long distance glider.

    I mean, if we're really doing this, here's what I find on the internet:

    "Flight is the process by which an object moves through an atmosphere (or beyond it, as in the case of spaceflight) without contact with the surface." - Wikipedia.

    "[to fly]
    a : to move in or pass through the air with wings
    b : to move through the air or before the wind or through outer space
    c : to float, wave, or soar in the air" - Merriam-Webster dictionary.

    Sure, these are just some of possible meanings, but the point is our mounts in GW 2 are technically flying.

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/glide
    glide verb
    \ ˈglīd
    \
    glided; gliding
    intransitive verb
    1 : to move smoothly, continuously, and effortlessly
    2 : to go or pass imperceptibly
    3a of an airplane : to descend gradually in controlled flight
    b : to fly in a glider
    4 : to produce a glide (as in music or speech)

    Gryphons in GW2 are glorified gliders. They do not/ cannot gain altitude when gliding over a long distance. And putting one into a dive simply kicks in the booster at a lower altitude when you "pull up".
    And I'll concede the point about flight as that was a poor choice of words on my part, but my argument is still the same.

  • @ShadowGryphon.6257 said:

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @ShadowGryphon.6257 said:
    To take flight implies the ability to gain altitude. The Gryphon is simply a long distance glider.

    No, it is not... quite. You can dive with super speed and gain an incredible amount of altitude.

    Let me reiterate: when a plane is in flight it can gain altitude by either adding power to the engines or using a dive to gain enough speed to then climb.
    The Gryphon's can, at best, maintain a level flight path for a short distance but then they slowly glide towards the ground. And, unless I've missed something, I have yet to have my Gryphon gain altitude on a long glide.
    Putting a Gryphon into a dive and then "pulling up" does not actually lead to a gain in altitude just an increase in speed.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=Pi7n46C8Gss

    At around 19 seconds in, the person on their griffon uses their super speed, or whatever it's called, to climb to a much higher altitude than it was currently gliding at, and then doing another dive to regain super speed, so that they could climb to a higher altitude again if they wanted/needed to, but in this instance they finished the course, so climbing again isn't necessary. Assuming that a person's reflexes are good enough, and there's plenty of space below you, I believe it should be possible to keep a griffon in the air indefinitely with the dive/super speed/climb mechanics.

  • Mithos.9023Mithos.9023 Member ✭✭✭

    Now to get things out of the way first, I have to say your writing style is really hard to read and feels strange. Therefore, I can understand why many find it obnoxious. But what irritates me more is why all your comments are so incredible passive aggressive? They often read really rude. Do you hate the others so much for stating their opinion? Even your appraisal of some comments sounds rather wrong actually.

    But be it as it is, to add something new, I have an idea that might solve the free flight problem. To not repeat everything said already, the trick might be to work around the limiting factor of the skyskale to not invalidate the older mounts. This can only be achieved in a new environment, a new map therefore. Free flight might be a new feature for a new map. That way everything else stays as relevant as it is.

    A few more ideas here:

    • I have the idea/wish of a floating map in my mind now, for at least a year. A map that might be larger than 3 or 4 pof maps combined with a lot of small islands floating around. A map that would invite to a lot of exploration in all 3 axis. A little like the world from skyward sword. And if you fall you "fall" into the maps below. Might be resource draining on arenanets site, having a map so large but it would not need a ceiling or bottom and the overall landmass might not be needed to be much bigger than in the current maps, just that it is more spread out and has more small things to do in between the islands.

    • Other option might be a map with the current size, being a float as well, but having a big central mass with extreme high z verticality.

    • Or a map with a giant Mountain that can have a lot ov z verticality and exploration as well.

    So while I am on arenanets with the current mount design, by limiting it to zones free flight could definitiv be a thing.
    To go a little wild here, how about a zone as large as the current world above the ground that would let you flight from one point in the world to another? Might just be a little empty.

  • DeWolfe.2174DeWolfe.2174 Member ✭✭✭

    @runeblade.7514 said:

    @DeWolfe.2174 said:

    @Trise.2865 said:
    Three words: "fly-over zones". You play WoW, so you know what that term means, and why GW2 should avoid it like the plague.

    Every zone is a "fly-over zone" when you can simply way point to a specific area and way point back out again.

    You got to find the waypoint first. Which you can fly over the zones to get to with a true flying mount.

    You have to find the way point once, 6 years and thousands of hours later.....

  • runeblade.7514runeblade.7514 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 6, 2019

    @DeWolfe.2174 said:

    @runeblade.7514 said:

    @DeWolfe.2174 said:

    @Trise.2865 said:
    Three words: "fly-over zones". You play WoW, so you know what that term means, and why GW2 should avoid it like the plague.

    Every zone is a "fly-over zone" when you can simply way point to a specific area and way point back out again.

    You got to find the waypoint first. Which you can fly over the zones to get to with a true flying mount.

    You have to find the way point once, 6 years and thousands of hours later.....

    I like how this post assumes ANet doesn't add new maps.

    Did I miss the memo that ANet announced no more new maps ever again?

    6x warrior/5xRanger/6x Revenant/6x Mesmer/5x Guardian/6x Thief/5x Engineer/5x Necromancer/5x Elementalist

  • DeWolfe.2174DeWolfe.2174 Member ✭✭✭

    For the Skyscale, even if the devs don't want it to fly high over the zones, it should be able to fly just off the ground. Like right now what I would modify on the Skyscale is also allowing it to maintain a low flying height off the ground or water like the Skimmer. For the Skimmer, I'd keep it mostly as is but, increase the land speed slightly and make it able to dive and swim in the water.

  • DeWolfe.2174DeWolfe.2174 Member ✭✭✭

    @runeblade.7514 said:

    @DeWolfe.2174 said:

    @runeblade.7514 said:

    @DeWolfe.2174 said:

    @Trise.2865 said:
    Three words: "fly-over zones". You play WoW, so you know what that term means, and why GW2 should avoid it like the plague.

    Every zone is a "fly-over zone" when you can simply way point to a specific area and way point back out again.

    You got to find the waypoint first. Which you can fly over the zones to get to with a true flying mount.

    You have to find the way point once, 6 years and thousands of hours later.....

    I like how this post assumes ANet doesn't add new maps.

    Did I miss the memo that ANet announced no more new maps ever again?

    It's always going to be the same, you only have to find it once.

  • runeblade.7514runeblade.7514 Member ✭✭✭

    @DeWolfe.2174 said:

    @runeblade.7514 said:

    @DeWolfe.2174 said:

    @runeblade.7514 said:

    @DeWolfe.2174 said:

    @Trise.2865 said:
    Three words: "fly-over zones". You play WoW, so you know what that term means, and why GW2 should avoid it like the plague.

    Every zone is a "fly-over zone" when you can simply way point to a specific area and way point back out again.

    You got to find the waypoint first. Which you can fly over the zones to get to with a true flying mount.

    You have to find the way point once, 6 years and thousands of hours later.....

    I like how this post assumes ANet doesn't add new maps.

    Did I miss the memo that ANet announced no more new maps ever again?

    It's always going to be the same, you only have to find it once.

    Good thing Skyscale without true flight won't ruin that one time experience then.

    6x warrior/5xRanger/6x Revenant/6x Mesmer/5x Guardian/6x Thief/5x Engineer/5x Necromancer/5x Elementalist

  • runeblade.7514runeblade.7514 Member ✭✭✭

    @DeWolfe.2174 said:
    For the Skyscale, even if the devs don't want it to fly high over the zones, it should be able to fly just off the ground. Like right now what I would modify on the Skyscale is also allowing it to maintain a low flying height off the ground or water like the Skimmer. For the Skimmer, I'd keep it mostly as is but, increase the land speed slightly and make it able to dive and swim in the water.

    Your wish is granted. It can already fly off from the ground. And I am talking about the skimmer-mode skyscale you want. Once you land and run out of flight juice, you instantly regain all flight juice allowing you to fly off the ground immediately.

    6x warrior/5xRanger/6x Revenant/6x Mesmer/5x Guardian/6x Thief/5x Engineer/5x Necromancer/5x Elementalist

  • Leo G.4501Leo G.4501 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kabuki Theatre.9752 said:

    @Airdive.2613 said:

    @Kabuki Theatre.9752 said:

    @Trise.2865 said:
    Three words: "fly-over zones". You play WoW, so you know what that term means, and why GW2 should avoid it like the plague.

    Please explain to me in plain words,
    how a bird,
    behaving exactly like a real bird,
    is somehow artificial?

    If we're talking pure realism, real birds aren't even used as mounts.
    Personally, I have no idea if they can fly at all with a noticeable additional load (a rider) on their back.

    Actual predator birds have been known to carry up to 150% of their weight in their talons.
    It is not a far stretch at all to imagine they could carry the same weight on their backs.
    My question still remains:

    Please explain to me in plain words,
    how a bird,
    behaving exactly like a real bird,
    is somehow artificial?

    And why is GW2 so very reluctant to replicate that?

    Are you sure about that?

    I wouldn't call it "carrying up", more like guided descent. Even if a large bird carried up weight into the air, they likely did so with a maneuver that required building up speed first. Frankly, arguing realism is foolish to begin with when you're talking about a video game. Why not take off your outrage cap and ask yourself, if you were making a game, what considerations you'd need to make to facilitate 100% flight and what it'd do to the core of your game.

    Not saying flight is a death knell for an MMO, it's just different games have different vibes and goals. I bet the individuals that derided the idea of mounts in GW2 are chuckling to themselves thinking, "yup, there's your slippery slope. enjoy the ride as your game loses all mystery or sense of scale".

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kabuki Theatre.9752 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @Kabuki Theatre.9752 said:
    how a bird,
    behaving exactly like a real bird,
    is somehow artificial?

    No one is making that argument.
    Because (a) a Griffon is not a bird, (b) a Griffon doesn't exist in our world, (c) and everything in GW2 is artificial in some way besides the obvious.


    There are, however, lots of reasons why it would be bad for Guild Wars 2, and fine for other games.

    • GW2 already allows skipping zones by use of waypoints; mount travel is slower.
    • Other games tend to have more stuff that people want to skip; generally, all zones in GW2 have potentially interesting areas.
    • Everything in GW2 is balanced (theoretically). Each mount is setup to have their own niche, to be less useful in some arenas. Each is setup to have advantages/disadvantages compared to 'walking'.

    In the end, it's a design choice: it's more fun this way (in ANet's opinion, and that of many players).

    Actually, it seems otherwise . . .
    GW2 wants you to spend the time, energy, blood, sweat, tears and
    (not insignificantly)
    GOLD,
    to acquire a half-dozen or more mounts to accomplish the same thing
    that two
    would easily accomplish:
    A land-based creature,
    and a Bird.

    For a lot of people flying mount ruined WOW. But this game is different from WoW where pretty much everything in the open world can be soloed and you never go back to it once you've leveled and done it once. Empty zones are a complaint I've heard about even in the mid levels of WoW the most popular MMO of all time. How so then would it be in a game with group events.

    Anet is quite correct in not introducing mounts that allow you to ignore entire zones. If you want to go somewhere fast, use a waypoint. The total amount of gold for all the mounts put together is minuscule for the number of mounts you get. You seem to think long term goals shouldn't require player investment in time. I think you're wrong about that.

    But without gold sinks, what happens to any game is the economy spirals out of control, new players can never catch up and you place a barrier to anyone starting that game, which is terrible for the game. Gold sinks are vital to the health of the game.

    The idea that the gold sink is just so Anet can make more money is a conspiracy theory of the highest order, because virtually every decent MMO has gold sinks, for good reason.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Seems ele can fly in this world because of magic but for what ever reason you cant use magic out side of killing things in this game.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.