GW2's odd version of flying . . . Why can't your mount, like Just. Fly.?? - Page 4 — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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GW2's odd version of flying . . . Why can't your mount, like Just. Fly.??

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  • arielwind.8921arielwind.8921 Member ✭✭✭

    Skyscale can do too much. Since skyscale can skip EVERYTHING.
    I still think mount was mistake. Guild Wars 2 core map was fun to exploring, still HoT with glider was nice somehow. Worried about how Anet can make the terrain after the launch of this flying mount.
    So i hope there's a map where flying mounts are restricted, but know it won't happen because Anet selling mount skins for product.

  • @arielwind.8921 said:
    Skyscale can do too much. Since skyscale can skip EVERYTHING.
    I still think mount was mistake. Guild Wars 2 core map was fun to exploring, still HoT with glider was nice somehow. Worried about how Anet can make the terrain after the launch of this flying mount.
    So i hope there's a map where flying mounts are restricted, but know it won't happen because Anet selling mount skins for product.

    Dude, there isn't anything in the game we couldn't already skip long before the skybrick. Heck, you don't even need a gliding mount, just jump through on your raptor.

  • I could totally get behind a "real" flying mount if there were flying enemies to fight in the air as well. I think Anet has made turrets and "baddies" to combat free flying wherever you want but if we had a battle between wyverns in the air for example that would be just cool.

  • Warlord.9082Warlord.9082 Member ✭✭✭

    Well, that would be actually useful, OP. Can't be having that.

  • @vyncius.6105 said:

    @Kabuki Theatre.9752 said:
    And how Exactly
    would it "ruin the game."?
    Seems to me other MMOs have not been
    "ruined"
    by having flying mounts that act just like real birds.

    wow was ruined with introduction of flying mounts

    And that's why Blizzard had to close WoW down. Also I heard FFIV closed too when they added real flying.
    Who would have thought that adding something joyful that people dream about from their childhoods would destroy two large companies..

  • Flaming.1763Flaming.1763 Member ✭✭

    Wow is borderless, GW isnt. Thats it.
    No need to fly into the outer stratosphere.
    Dont know kitten you keep discussing this bs. Its af** fanatasy game.
    Looks like OP abandoned this thread days ago, bored of his owned stupid troll thread, which u can solve just by thinking 2min on your own about it.

    I know a little lore and discussing can be fun. But some aspects are just BS.

  • Klowdy.3126Klowdy.3126 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kabuki Theatre.9752 said:

    @ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

    @Kabuki Theatre.9752 said:

    @Trise.2865 said:
    Three words: "fly-over zones". You play WoW, so you know what that term means, and why GW2 should avoid it like the plague.

    Please explain to me in plain words,
    how a bird,
    behaving exactly like a real bird,
    is somehow artificial?

    By carrying a person on its back when it shouldn't be.

    And the mythical Griffon and Skyscale is being realistic by carrying people on its back?
    At least an Eagle can carry off a sheep with no problem at all.

    Have you ever tried carrying a person on you back while running? Not super easy, but doable. Definitely not going to be going as far as normal. How about one around your waist? Much more difficult. Sitting on/near the wings of a bird would greatly hinder their ability to fly.

    The way ANet has decided to implement mounts is the absolute best idea of any game I've played so far. Flying is not only not necessary, it would ruin things like map traversal, and jumping puzzles, by either making them far too easy, or creating no mount zones in way too many places.

  • @Kabuki Theatre.9752 said:
    Reading the following in another thread:

    "I just realized something. With the Skyscale, this is an infinite elevator though a slow one. Get to the highest point you can with the skyscale/springer, jump with the springer, Bound of Faith, glide, mount the Skyscale (that's the first mastery and works just like the Griffon). Use your new flight bar to go up, hover until Bound of Faith cools down, repeat. Unless you lose as much or more altitude gliding before you can re-mount, you could go as high as you wanted this way."

    Holy. Moly.

    In other MMOs, let's just say WoW for now, but there are numerous others,
    when you get a flying mount,

    It.
    Just.
    Flies.

    No gliding, climbing, launching, jumping, etc.

    Just.
    Like.
    An.
    Actual.
    Bird.
    You know, it just takes off, flies through the sky, and then lands wherever it feels like.
    Like an actual Eagle, Condor, Robin, Wren, Starling, Crow, or

    Pterodactyl.

    What gives?
    Flight by bird-like beings has been around for Billions of Years.

    Why complicate it so much?

    What EXACTLY is the point with flying mounts GW2 wants to make SO COMPLICATED???

    Here's why.
    1] Even birds can't fly forever. They get tired and land on stuff.
    2] Birds fly long distances in flocks and GW2 doesn't have a flock system.

  • Have you played WoW recently?

    Flying was obviously a mistake that the devs have been kicking themselves over.

  • Vincenzo.3145Vincenzo.3145 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 10, 2019

    Mounts in games like WoW and FFXIV are really generic, stale, boring, and uninspired. Mounts in this game CAN in fact fly. It takes practice, but it's viable. Skyscale up to a high elevation, park yourself on your springer, jump for additional height, bond of faith off and onto your griffon, dive and pull up then have fun as you work to maintain that height. It's basically a 3D MMO Metroidvania and personally I love it. Clearly you do not. Might I suggest playing something else instead of complaining about one of the things that makes this game so good and unique compared to everything else?

    Fun fact: Platforming is an integral part of GW2. Mounts not only need to be done this way, but they've been done in such a way that it synergizes with existing game elements.

    Just be happy you can actually fly with said mounts let alone use them in starting areas unlike most other games who won't do jack kitten with their's.

    Speaking of, I'm riding a dragon in FFXIV. I can fly in HW and SB areas. Why can't I fly it in ARR areas? What's so complicated? There are virtually no implications for anyone doing do other than hitting an invisible barrier. Oh so immersion breaking, it's almost as if the zones weren't small and empty enough to begin with. Especially compared to GW2 who has not only basically allowed players to go as far as breaking the game, but allowed them to do so however and wherever they wish for the sake of fun in zones that are actually full of things to do.

    Fun comes first. If you don't like fun, go back to those jobs people call "video games".

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @arielwind.8921 said:
    Skyscale can do too much. Since skyscale can skip EVERYTHING.
    I still think mount was mistake. Guild Wars 2 core map was fun to exploring, still HoT with glider was nice somehow. Worried about how Anet can make the terrain after the launch of this flying mount.
    So i hope there's a map where flying mounts are restricted, but know it won't happen because Anet selling mount skins for product.

    Please don't advocate for restricting other players' fun. Just because you find that mounts allow some players to skip over content does not mean that you must do so as well. One can still explore Core and HoT without mounts if one so chooses.

    If you don't approve or care for the mechanics that mounts bring to the game, then you needn't use them. HoT and PoF are expansions and not required to play GW2.

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • Fallesafe.5932Fallesafe.5932 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kabuki Theatre.9752 said
    What EXACTLY is the point with flying mounts GW2 wants to make SO COMPLICATED???

    No matter how ridiculous any aspect of this game is, there will always be vocal group of people on this board to passionately argue that it has to be EXACTLY that way, or the game would catastrophically collapse overnight. The real reason is because they released an entire expansion with four days of new gameplay. And it turns out that mounts actually WERE the expansion. So they need to string you along, for 2-3 years with new mounts, new mount skins, and new mount abilities, to fill in for all the alternative content that never was.

  • @Erasculio.2914 said:

    People would just skip the content if they could fly freely. It would break the game.

    Honestly, this falls within the category of "things players believe they want but that would hurt more than benefit the game".

    HOW exactly would it break the game? The Roller Beetle is in the game and it's not broken. You can zoom through a map in seconds with that mount and yet the game isn't broken. The Skyscale can basically do the same thing if you find a high point to start from so why not just make the kitten thing just FLY from any point? The mechanic is NOT fun, it's not challenging - it's annoying.

  • dodgerrule.8739dodgerrule.8739 Member ✭✭✭

    Being able to free fly ruins games. Games that once had that implemented stopped letting it happen because it kills content.

  • Xervite.5493Xervite.5493 Member ✭✭✭

    Fact is that there are no flying mounts in the game. No, double jump into gliding or hovering at a specific height is not flight. The reason flight isn't a thing because according to the community it will break the game and make other mounts obsolete. I personally don't understand this reasoning one bit, we already have invisible barriers around the maps and jumping puzzle areas are completely mount locked i.e, you cant mount there, so what exactly is flight breaking here? If its the issue of making other mounts obsolete then simply make the flying mount comparatively slower.

  • One way to handle skipping new content is to grant a flying stamina buff for each zone you have 100% completion on.

    This gives the best of both worlds, you cant skip new content/zones by flying over it until you have fully experienced the entire zone and once you have fully enjoyed all the content you can fly over it next time if you wish.

  • joneirikb.7506joneirikb.7506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Xervite.5493 said:
    Fact is that there are no flying mounts in the game. No, double jump into gliding or hovering at a specific height is not flight. The reason flight isn't a thing because according to the community it will break the game and make other mounts obsolete. I personally don't understand this reasoning one bit, we already have invisible barriers around the maps and jumping puzzle areas are completely mount locked i.e, you cant mount there, so what exactly is flight breaking here? If its the issue of making other mounts obsolete then simply make the flying mount comparatively slower.

    Just to clarify, what you're asking for is not actually "flying" either, it's actually "Levitation". Flying would be how a bird flies, including incapable of hover in the air or standing still, constantly in motion, and has to work for altitude, and watch out of air currents and warm air etc. So honestly the Griffon is pretty darn close.

    The kind of "flying" that WoW mounts etc got, would be better described as a helicopter, as it's the only thing I can think of that can "fly" that way. (Humming birds doesn't count, as the physical limitations they have to maintain in order to manage brief periods of hovering are pretty crazy).

  • ProtoGunner.4953ProtoGunner.4953 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @BlueJin.4127 said:
    One thing I want to comment on. Some posters are claiming that flying mounts creating problems for WoW is a fact. This, actually, is not a fact, but an opinion. I, too, am guilty of just passing off my comment as fact in my previous post, so I'm not making excuses. Just wanted to clear things up for those who may not have played WoW.

    Flying mounts in WoW let players skip some enemies on their way to their objectives. For players who believe being grounded results in just the right amount of combat and engagement, flying mounts are a problem. However, for players who believe that they're fighting too often while grounded, flying is a solution. For former players, yes, flying mounts are a problem. But flying mounts being a problem isn't a fact because it is these players' opinion that the amount of combat they encounter while grounded is acceptable and flying results in too little combat.

    To explain another way, imagine if they increased WoW's aggro range so that grounded players must fight all enemies within render distance. Would these players still think flying over these enemies is a problem? No. So if the aggro range is reduced little by little, at what point does flying over enemies go from a solution to a problem? That's an opinion that varies by player and no one player's opinion is any more right than another's.

    I'm sure some anti-fliers will say flying broke more than just skipping enemies in WoW. But again, that's just an opinion because for pro-fliers, flying created an immersive experience and new design that can't be mimicked by being grounded. No matter how some people claim their side as fact, it is not a fact.

    Well said, flying was just awesome in WoW and it should be in GW2. People just use a mount and pass enemies anyways, if they need to go to a certain location. It's such a null and void argument, it's unbearable.

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @arielwind.8921 said:
    Skyscale can do too much. Since skyscale can skip EVERYTHING.
    I still think mount was mistake. Guild Wars 2 core map was fun to exploring, still HoT with glider was nice somehow. Worried about how Anet can make the terrain after the launch of this flying mount.
    So i hope there's a map where flying mounts are restricted, but know it won't happen because Anet selling mount skins for product.

    Mounts allowed the devs to change their design philosophy with regards to maps. PoF maps have a fraction of the waypoints you saw in Core, and still less than HoT, as (I figure) the assumption was the mounts would help get you around faster, and therefore you don't need to port as often.

    I am also curious about how the skyscale will impact future maps. The Griffon certainly helped make the LW S4 maps easier to navigate, but I feel the Skyscale is even better at helping you deal with terrain, and had a chance to see this when I went back to pre-PoF stuff. The Skyscale made map completion on Ember Bay, Draconis Mons and Ember Bay a veritable joke. And Silverwastes? Lol, if you don't have the JP and the badge collections all done, just grab the skyscale as it can't get any easier.

    So now I wonder if ANET will design future maps with the assumption that everyone has the skyscale (which they really can't), or will it truly trivialize getting around as many are suggesting? Only time will tell.

  • Mounts are a gimmick in the game. Just like break-bars and ridiculous boss AoE patterns and cooldowns on skills. None of that makes much sense in the context of the game world. Why would you only be able to cast something every 30 or 40 seconds? Why would a monster throw down striated rings of damage? Why would a living mount with wings have to continually descend? It's all for the sake of adding things that take time and attention, which strikes you as tedium or fun depending on your predispositions. So you either enjoy it, put up with it, or give up on it.

  • ProtoGunner.4953ProtoGunner.4953 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @nosleepdemon.1368 said:

    @ProtoGunner.4953 said:

    @BlueJin.4127 said:
    One thing I want to comment on. Some posters are claiming that flying mounts creating problems for WoW is a fact. This, actually, is not a fact, but an opinion. I, too, am guilty of just passing off my comment as fact in my previous post, so I'm not making excuses. Just wanted to clear things up for those who may not have played WoW.

    Flying mounts in WoW let players skip some enemies on their way to their objectives. For players who believe being grounded results in just the right amount of combat and engagement, flying mounts are a problem. However, for players who believe that they're fighting too often while grounded, flying is a solution. For former players, yes, flying mounts are a problem. But flying mounts being a problem isn't a fact because it is these players' opinion that the amount of combat they encounter while grounded is acceptable and flying results in too little combat.

    To explain another way, imagine if they increased WoW's aggro range so that grounded players must fight all enemies within render distance. Would these players still think flying over these enemies is a problem? No. So if the aggro range is reduced little by little, at what point does flying over enemies go from a solution to a problem? That's an opinion that varies by player and no one player's opinion is any more right than another's.

    I'm sure some anti-fliers will say flying broke more than just skipping enemies in WoW. But again, that's just an opinion because for pro-fliers, flying created an immersive experience and new design that can't be mimicked by being grounded. No matter how some people claim their side as fact, it is not a fact.

    Well said, flying was just awesome in WoW and it should be in GW2. People just use a mount and pass enemies anyways, if they need to go to a certain location. It's such a null and void argument, it's unbearable.

    Null and void eh? So null and void that that is the very reason the developers don't want to add permanent flying - because it trivialises content, and why Blizzard regretted adding flying and now begrudgingly make it an unlock because pandora's box can't be shut.

    But okay, sure, Gary the Gaming Guru over here knows it's an unbearably boring argument.

    Sorry, but in my opinion: if someone wants to skip things, let them do it. It just makes stuff more accessible and let's face it, open world is trivial enough.

  • Maikimaik.1974Maikimaik.1974 Member ✭✭✭

    @ProtoGunner.4953 said:

    @nosleepdemon.1368 said:

    @ProtoGunner.4953 said:

    @BlueJin.4127 said:
    One thing I want to comment on. Some posters are claiming that flying mounts creating problems for WoW is a fact. This, actually, is not a fact, but an opinion. I, too, am guilty of just passing off my comment as fact in my previous post, so I'm not making excuses. Just wanted to clear things up for those who may not have played WoW.

    Flying mounts in WoW let players skip some enemies on their way to their objectives. For players who believe being grounded results in just the right amount of combat and engagement, flying mounts are a problem. However, for players who believe that they're fighting too often while grounded, flying is a solution. For former players, yes, flying mounts are a problem. But flying mounts being a problem isn't a fact because it is these players' opinion that the amount of combat they encounter while grounded is acceptable and flying results in too little combat.

    To explain another way, imagine if they increased WoW's aggro range so that grounded players must fight all enemies within render distance. Would these players still think flying over these enemies is a problem? No. So if the aggro range is reduced little by little, at what point does flying over enemies go from a solution to a problem? That's an opinion that varies by player and no one player's opinion is any more right than another's.

    I'm sure some anti-fliers will say flying broke more than just skipping enemies in WoW. But again, that's just an opinion because for pro-fliers, flying created an immersive experience and new design that can't be mimicked by being grounded. No matter how some people claim their side as fact, it is not a fact.

    Well said, flying was just awesome in WoW and it should be in GW2. People just use a mount and pass enemies anyways, if they need to go to a certain location. It's such a null and void argument, it's unbearable.

    Null and void eh? So null and void that that is the very reason the developers don't want to add permanent flying - because it trivialises content, and why Blizzard regretted adding flying and now begrudgingly make it an unlock because pandora's box can't be shut.

    But okay, sure, Gary the Gaming Guru over here knows it's an unbearably boring argument.

    Sorry, but in my opinion: if someone wants to skip things, let them do it. It just makes stuff more accessible and let's face it, open world is trivial enough.

    If it's trivial enough there's absolutely no reason to make it skippable.

  • Rico.6873Rico.6873 Member ✭✭✭

    It's fine the way it is, items, orbs could be added to improve the power of the skyscale at certain places but that's all what's needed

  • ProtoGunner.4953ProtoGunner.4953 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Maikimaik.1974 said:

    @ProtoGunner.4953 said:

    @nosleepdemon.1368 said:

    @ProtoGunner.4953 said:

    @BlueJin.4127 said:
    One thing I want to comment on. Some posters are claiming that flying mounts creating problems for WoW is a fact. This, actually, is not a fact, but an opinion. I, too, am guilty of just passing off my comment as fact in my previous post, so I'm not making excuses. Just wanted to clear things up for those who may not have played WoW.

    Flying mounts in WoW let players skip some enemies on their way to their objectives. For players who believe being grounded results in just the right amount of combat and engagement, flying mounts are a problem. However, for players who believe that they're fighting too often while grounded, flying is a solution. For former players, yes, flying mounts are a problem. But flying mounts being a problem isn't a fact because it is these players' opinion that the amount of combat they encounter while grounded is acceptable and flying results in too little combat.

    To explain another way, imagine if they increased WoW's aggro range so that grounded players must fight all enemies within render distance. Would these players still think flying over these enemies is a problem? No. So if the aggro range is reduced little by little, at what point does flying over enemies go from a solution to a problem? That's an opinion that varies by player and no one player's opinion is any more right than another's.

    I'm sure some anti-fliers will say flying broke more than just skipping enemies in WoW. But again, that's just an opinion because for pro-fliers, flying created an immersive experience and new design that can't be mimicked by being grounded. No matter how some people claim their side as fact, it is not a fact.

    Well said, flying was just awesome in WoW and it should be in GW2. People just use a mount and pass enemies anyways, if they need to go to a certain location. It's such a null and void argument, it's unbearable.

    Null and void eh? So null and void that that is the very reason the developers don't want to add permanent flying - because it trivialises content, and why Blizzard regretted adding flying and now begrudgingly make it an unlock because pandora's box can't be shut.

    But okay, sure, Gary the Gaming Guru over here knows it's an unbearably boring argument.

    Sorry, but in my opinion: if someone wants to skip things, let them do it. It just makes stuff more accessible and let's face it, open world is trivial enough.

    If it's trivial enough there's absolutely no reason to make it skippable.

    I made a mistake: I meant, since it is trivial anyways but annoying/boring lets skip some annoying irrelevant loot dropping enemies anyways since in GW2 does that everyone.

  • ProtoGunner.4953ProtoGunner.4953 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 23, 2019

    @derd.6413 said:

    @ProtoGunner.4953 said:

    @nosleepdemon.1368 said:

    @ProtoGunner.4953 said:

    @BlueJin.4127 said:
    One thing I want to comment on. Some posters are claiming that flying mounts creating problems for WoW is a fact. This, actually, is not a fact, but an opinion. I, too, am guilty of just passing off my comment as fact in my previous post, so I'm not making excuses. Just wanted to clear things up for those who may not have played WoW.

    Flying mounts in WoW let players skip some enemies on their way to their objectives. For players who believe being grounded results in just the right amount of combat and engagement, flying mounts are a problem. However, for players who believe that they're fighting too often while grounded, flying is a solution. For former players, yes, flying mounts are a problem. But flying mounts being a problem isn't a fact because it is these players' opinion that the amount of combat they encounter while grounded is acceptable and flying results in too little combat.

    To explain another way, imagine if they increased WoW's aggro range so that grounded players must fight all enemies within render distance. Would these players still think flying over these enemies is a problem? No. So if the aggro range is reduced little by little, at what point does flying over enemies go from a solution to a problem? That's an opinion that varies by player and no one player's opinion is any more right than another's.

    I'm sure some anti-fliers will say flying broke more than just skipping enemies in WoW. But again, that's just an opinion because for pro-fliers, flying created an immersive experience and new design that can't be mimicked by being grounded. No matter how some people claim their side as fact, it is not a fact.

    Well said, flying was just awesome in WoW and it should be in GW2. People just use a mount and pass enemies anyways, if they need to go to a certain location. It's such a null and void argument, it's unbearable.

    Null and void eh? So null and void that that is the very reason the developers don't want to add permanent flying - because it trivialises content, and why Blizzard regretted adding flying and now begrudgingly make it an unlock because pandora's box can't be shut.

    But okay, sure, Gary the Gaming Guru over here knows it's an unbearably boring argument.

    Sorry, but in my opinion: if someone wants to skip things, let them do it. It just makes stuff more accessible and let's face it, open world is trivial enough.

    because at that point you might as well just put a link to a let's play that give you all rewards for clicking on it

    Mate, I play hardcore games like Demon's/Dark Souls and Sekiro. But let's face it: in an MMO you play sometimes thousands of hours. I myself played this game since beta and for about 5k hours. So let me just skip some parts I visited dozens of times. It can be my decision not to skip it. What is your problem with it? Open world parts in MMOs should be easy/accessible and a lot of people do that for leisure and not for 'work'. You have fractals and raids for that.

  • @Kabuki Theatre.9752 said:

    @Sila.6748 said:

    @Kabuki Theatre.9752 said:

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @Kabuki Theatre.9752 said:
    And how Exactly
    would it "ruin the game."?

    Before mounts were introduced, the game had a set traveling mechanic: waypoints, plus by foot. If you could fly over everything just like that, not only would old means of traveling become obsolete, new maps would also no longer pose a challenge at all when it comes to map completion (as verticality would no longer matter). The point of map completion is to thoroughly explore a new map.

    I would like to ask you one simple question ---
    How is it that so many other MMOs
    have implemented flying creatures into their games,
    without completely destroying their creations?

    Is this not possible within the GW2 environment?
    OR

    is GW2 the great exception to the rule?

    Propose a flying mount in Guild Wars 2, and there’s an obvious challenge in that its content to date has been designed with players’ feet firmly on the ground.

    “We knew we had to be careful with how we went about tackling ‘flying’ in the game,” says Cronacher. “If we did free flight it would break a lot of content and invalidate the other mounts, which we didn’t want to do. We had to find a balance of feeling like the flight was natural and fun, but focused on player skill and manipulation, rather than free omnidirectional flight.”

    They dont WANT omnidirectional free flight. This is what they have chosen for their game. If you don't like it, this game is not for you.

    Again, yet another response of --

    If you don't like that game,
    pick your bat, ball, and gloves,
    and go somewhere else.

    Brilliant.
    Just Brilliant.

    Well...this is how Anet wants to do things and it is their game, and their rules.

    And as someone above said straight flying would invalidate the other mounts...and I happen to like the ways my Raptor, Springer, Skimmer, Jackel, and Skyscale work.

    WOW, City Of Heroes, and I don't know who else has free flight.. you could choose one of those for a flying fix.

    Lisa.

  • Julischka Bean.7491Julischka Bean.7491 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 23, 2019

    @nosleepdemon.1368 said:

    @ProtoGunner.4953 said:

    @nosleepdemon.1368 said:

    @ProtoGunner.4953 said:

    @BlueJin.4127 said:
    One thing I want to comment on. Some posters are claiming that flying mounts creating problems for WoW is a fact. This, actually, is not a fact, but an opinion. I, too, am guilty of just passing off my comment as fact in my previous post, so I'm not making excuses. Just wanted to clear things up for those who may not have played WoW.

    Flying mounts in WoW let players skip some enemies on their way to their objectives. For players who believe being grounded results in just the right amount of combat and engagement, flying mounts are a problem. However, for players who believe that they're fighting too often while grounded, flying is a solution. For former players, yes, flying mounts are a problem. But flying mounts being a problem isn't a fact because it is these players' opinion that the amount of combat they encounter while grounded is acceptable and flying results in too little combat.

    To explain another way, imagine if they increased WoW's aggro range so that grounded players must fight all enemies within render distance. Would these players still think flying over these enemies is a problem? No. So if the aggro range is reduced little by little, at what point does flying over enemies go from a solution to a problem? That's an opinion that varies by player and no one player's opinion is any more right than another's.

    I'm sure some anti-fliers will say flying broke more than just skipping enemies in WoW. But again, that's just an opinion because for pro-fliers, flying created an immersive experience and new design that can't be mimicked by being grounded. No matter how some people claim their side as fact, it is not a fact.

    Well said, flying was just awesome in WoW and it should be in GW2. People just use a mount and pass enemies anyways, if they need to go to a certain location. It's such a null and void argument, it's unbearable.

    Null and void eh? So null and void that that is the very reason the developers don't want to add permanent flying - because it trivialises content, and why Blizzard regretted adding flying and now begrudgingly make it an unlock because pandora's box can't be shut.

    But okay, sure, Gary the Gaming Guru over here knows it's an unbearably boring argument.

    Sorry, but in my opinion: if someone wants to skip things, let them do it. It just makes stuff more accessible and let's face it, open world is trivial enough.

    If someone wants to skip things, letting them do it is bad practice. Humans are really, really good at taking the easy way out and then training their minds to rely on this as a crutch. A great example is our reliance on quick dopamine hits from looking at our phones and seeing some likes on things we post. Once this becomes habit it is hard to break, and even worse, the reward is rather empty. Players should not be encouraged to play games using the most efficient, empty and exclusionary method possible. This is especially true of multiplayer games where player cooperation and a shared experience is essential. If you as a player wish to skip the entire game world to zip between discrete objectives there are two possibilities:

    1. The game world isn't engaging enough. Or...
    2. Perhaps you have out grown the game, and need a break.

    In either case, trivialising content even further so that you can reach your reward sooner, instead of enjoying the journey itself, is a really terrible game design rabbit hole to plunge down from which there is rarely any escape.

    I agree..with one exception.

    I am the worst Jumper you ever did see.

    I bought the Pungent Skyscale treats...but... because I knew they were there, that gave me confidence to go out and actually try to do the jumping puzzles.

    To my surprise, because of that, the Jumping Puzzles collection was the second of my best memories of the great Skyscale adventure...the first being the Rifts.

    So, sometimes, giving people something like the Pungent Treats is actually a good thing to do.

  • Sojourner.4621Sojourner.4621 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Julischka Bean.7491 said:

    @nosleepdemon.1368 said:

    @ProtoGunner.4953 said:

    @nosleepdemon.1368 said:

    @ProtoGunner.4953 said:

    @BlueJin.4127 said:
    One thing I want to comment on. Some posters are claiming that flying mounts creating problems for WoW is a fact. This, actually, is not a fact, but an opinion. I, too, am guilty of just passing off my comment as fact in my previous post, so I'm not making excuses. Just wanted to clear things up for those who may not have played WoW.

    Flying mounts in WoW let players skip some enemies on their way to their objectives. For players who believe being grounded results in just the right amount of combat and engagement, flying mounts are a problem. However, for players who believe that they're fighting too often while grounded, flying is a solution. For former players, yes, flying mounts are a problem. But flying mounts being a problem isn't a fact because it is these players' opinion that the amount of combat they encounter while grounded is acceptable and flying results in too little combat.

    To explain another way, imagine if they increased WoW's aggro range so that grounded players must fight all enemies within render distance. Would these players still think flying over these enemies is a problem? No. So if the aggro range is reduced little by little, at what point does flying over enemies go from a solution to a problem? That's an opinion that varies by player and no one player's opinion is any more right than another's.

    I'm sure some anti-fliers will say flying broke more than just skipping enemies in WoW. But again, that's just an opinion because for pro-fliers, flying created an immersive experience and new design that can't be mimicked by being grounded. No matter how some people claim their side as fact, it is not a fact.

    Well said, flying was just awesome in WoW and it should be in GW2. People just use a mount and pass enemies anyways, if they need to go to a certain location. It's such a null and void argument, it's unbearable.

    Null and void eh? So null and void that that is the very reason the developers don't want to add permanent flying - because it trivialises content, and why Blizzard regretted adding flying and now begrudgingly make it an unlock because pandora's box can't be shut.

    But okay, sure, Gary the Gaming Guru over here knows it's an unbearably boring argument.

    Sorry, but in my opinion: if someone wants to skip things, let them do it. It just makes stuff more accessible and let's face it, open world is trivial enough.

    If someone wants to skip things, letting them do it is bad practice. Humans are really, really good at taking the easy way out and then training their minds to rely on this as a crutch. A great example is our reliance on quick dopamine hits from looking at our phones and seeing some likes on things we post. Once this becomes habit it is hard to break, and even worse, the reward is rather empty. Players should not be encouraged to play games using the most efficient, empty and exclusionary method possible. This is especially true of multiplayer games where player cooperation and a shared experience is essential. If you as a player wish to skip the entire game world to zip between discrete objectives there are two possibilities:

    1. The game world isn't engaging enough. Or...
    2. Perhaps you have out grown the game, and need a break.

    In either case, trivialising content even further so that you can reach your reward sooner, instead of enjoying the journey itself, is a really terrible game design rabbit hole to plunge down from which there is rarely any escape.

    I agree..with one exception.

    I am the worst Jumper you ever did see.

    I bought the Pungent Skyscale treats...but... because I knew they were there, that gave me confidence to go out and actually try to do the jumping puzzles.

    To my surprise, because of that, the Jumping Puzzles collection was the second of my best memories of the great Skyscale adventure...the first being the Rifts.

    So, sometimes, giving people something like the Pungent Treats is actually a good thing to do.

    Yeah I only skipped four of the zones with pungent treats because the involved tasks didn't work well with my schedule (Shadow behemoth) or I just hate that particular JP (Griffonrook).

  • nosleepdemon.1368nosleepdemon.1368 Member ✭✭✭

    I'd say that the pungent treats aren't entirely the same, in that they help for a single task instead of being a game wide effect. If you could use them to complete any objective then that would be a closer comparison to WoW style flying.

    Glad that they helped you both, I've yet to get on the Skyscale train, but after I finish my legendary back piece I may get the Skyscale for slightly more convenient world completion, since I'll need to do it again to make more legendary items.

  • Etria.3642Etria.3642 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ProtoGunner.4953 said:

    @derd.6413 said:

    @ProtoGunner.4953 said:

    @nosleepdemon.1368 said:

    @ProtoGunner.4953 said:

    @BlueJin.4127 said:
    One thing I want to comment on. Some posters are claiming that flying mounts creating problems for WoW is a fact. This, actually, is not a fact, but an opinion. I, too, am guilty of just passing off my comment as fact in my previous post, so I'm not making excuses. Just wanted to clear things up for those who may not have played WoW.

    Flying mounts in WoW let players skip some enemies on their way to their objectives. For players who believe being grounded results in just the right amount of combat and engagement, flying mounts are a problem. However, for players who believe that they're fighting too often while grounded, flying is a solution. For former players, yes, flying mounts are a problem. But flying mounts being a problem isn't a fact because it is these players' opinion that the amount of combat they encounter while grounded is acceptable and flying results in too little combat.

    To explain another way, imagine if they increased WoW's aggro range so that grounded players must fight all enemies within render distance. Would these players still think flying over these enemies is a problem? No. So if the aggro range is reduced little by little, at what point does flying over enemies go from a solution to a problem? That's an opinion that varies by player and no one player's opinion is any more right than another's.

    I'm sure some anti-fliers will say flying broke more than just skipping enemies in WoW. But again, that's just an opinion because for pro-fliers, flying created an immersive experience and new design that can't be mimicked by being grounded. No matter how some people claim their side as fact, it is not a fact.

    Well said, flying was just awesome in WoW and it should be in GW2. People just use a mount and pass enemies anyways, if they need to go to a certain location. It's such a null and void argument, it's unbearable.

    Null and void eh? So null and void that that is the very reason the developers don't want to add permanent flying - because it trivialises content, and why Blizzard regretted adding flying and now begrudgingly make it an unlock because pandora's box can't be shut.

    But okay, sure, Gary the Gaming Guru over here knows it's an unbearably boring argument.

    Sorry, but in my opinion: if someone wants to skip things, let them do it. It just makes stuff more accessible and let's face it, open world is trivial enough.

    because at that point you might as well just put a link to a let's play that give you all rewards for clicking on it

    Mate, I play hardcore games like Demon's/Dark Souls and Sekiro. But let's face it: in an MMO you play sometimes thousands of hours. I myself played this game since beta and for about 5k hours. So let me just skip some parts I visited dozens of times. It can be my decision not to skip it. What is your problem with it? Open world parts in MMOs should be easy/accessible and a lot of people do that for leisure and not for 'work'. You have fractals and raids for that.

    So just waypoint?

  • BlueJin.4127BlueJin.4127 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 24, 2019

    I think a lot of people are misinterpreting ProtoGunner. He’s not saying something like, “I beat HoT on 10 characters so let all my future characters just get an auto story complete, auto level 80, full exotic gears, and Knight of the Thorn ascended weapons for free.” Rather, it’s more like, “I fought all these enemies on the way to an event countless times. Now, I just want to run past these enemies that have nothing to do with the event itself.”

    It’s not an unreasonable request at all. How many repliers fight every enemy in their path on their way to something? I bet nobody. Everybody already runs past and skips enemies they don’t need to fight, and have done so since before mounts were even introduced.

    And it’s not just running past enemies. Subsequent characters can skip story to get into new LWS maps with season teleport tomes. Players don’t have to do story dungeon before playing explorable dungeon, as long as somebody else has explorable unlocked. Players are not forced to play through HoT story before joining Dragonstand meta. The list goes on and on. Should all these be unskippable?

    Being able to skip some minor stuff is actually good for the game. Everybody just has their own preference on where they want to set the bar.

    ^^

  • derd.6413derd.6413 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 24, 2019

    @BlueJin.4127 said:
    I think a lot of people are misinterpreting ProtoGunner. He’s not saying something like, “I beat HoT on 10 characters so let my all my future characters just get an auto story complete, full exotic gears, and Knight of the Thorn ascended weapons for free.” Rather, it’s more like, “I fought all these enemies on the way to an event countless times. Now, I just want to run past these enemies that have nothing to do with the event itself.”

    It’s not an unreasonable request at all. How many repliers fight every enemy in their path on their way to something? I bet nobody. Everybody already runs past and skips enemies they don’t need to fight, and have done so since before mounts were even introduced.

    And it’s not just running past enemies. Subsequent characters can skip story to get into new LWS maps with season teleport tomes. Players don’t have to do story dungeon before playing explorable dungeon, as long as somebody else has explorable unlocked. Players are not forced to play through HoT story before joining Dragonstand meta. The list goes on and on. Should all these be unskippable?

    the thing your missing is that now you still require to interact with the environment, (plan your route and such or play the game) instead of flying over it like you're in minecraft's creative mode

    I Have No friends, so I Must pug

  • ProtoGunner.4953ProtoGunner.4953 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 24, 2019

    @Maikimaik.1974 said:

    @ProtoGunner.4953 said:

    @derd.6413 said:

    @ProtoGunner.4953 said:

    @nosleepdemon.1368 said:

    @ProtoGunner.4953 said:

    @BlueJin.4127 said:
    One thing I want to comment on. Some posters are claiming that flying mounts creating problems for WoW is a fact. This, actually, is not a fact, but an opinion. I, too, am guilty of just passing off my comment as fact in my previous post, so I'm not making excuses. Just wanted to clear things up for those who may not have played WoW.

    Flying mounts in WoW let players skip some enemies on their way to their objectives. For players who believe being grounded results in just the right amount of combat and engagement, flying mounts are a problem. However, for players who believe that they're fighting too often while grounded, flying is a solution. For former players, yes, flying mounts are a problem. But flying mounts being a problem isn't a fact because it is these players' opinion that the amount of combat they encounter while grounded is acceptable and flying results in too little combat.

    To explain another way, imagine if they increased WoW's aggro range so that grounded players must fight all enemies within render distance. Would these players still think flying over these enemies is a problem? No. So if the aggro range is reduced little by little, at what point does flying over enemies go from a solution to a problem? That's an opinion that varies by player and no one player's opinion is any more right than another's.

    I'm sure some anti-fliers will say flying broke more than just skipping enemies in WoW. But again, that's just an opinion because for pro-fliers, flying created an immersive experience and new design that can't be mimicked by being grounded. No matter how some people claim their side as fact, it is not a fact.

    Well said, flying was just awesome in WoW and it should be in GW2. People just use a mount and pass enemies anyways, if they need to go to a certain location. It's such a null and void argument, it's unbearable.

    Null and void eh? So null and void that that is the very reason the developers don't want to add permanent flying - because it trivialises content, and why Blizzard regretted adding flying and now begrudgingly make it an unlock because pandora's box can't be shut.

    But okay, sure, Gary the Gaming Guru over here knows it's an unbearably boring argument.

    Sorry, but in my opinion: if someone wants to skip things, let them do it. It just makes stuff more accessible and let's face it, open world is trivial enough.

    because at that point you might as well just put a link to a let's play that give you all rewards for clicking on it

    Mate, I play hardcore games like Demon's/Dark Souls and Sekiro. But let's face it: in an MMO you play sometimes thousands of hours. I myself played this game since beta and for about 5k hours. So let me just skip some parts I visited dozens of times. It can be my decision not to skip it. What is your problem with it? Open world parts in MMOs should be easy/accessible and a lot of people do that for leisure and not for 'work'. You have fractals and raids for that.

    Great. I'd love to skip the grind for my next legendary, it's MY decision to skip it, so I SHOULD have the option to skip it. Grinding is trivial and annoying enough, so just let me skip it.

    I made about 7 legendaries, so that's that... Also, I do not talk about skipping grind or skipping whole parts of content. It's a vast difference between skipping an annoying convoluted part of the world with a flying mount to skipping whole parts of collections to get a rare item. But as it seems you are all well trained in dialectics and love to turn around arguments.

    People won't play content that's easily skippable, because we always take the path of least resistance. It doesn't matter if the content is fun or annoying, if it's skippable, most people will skip it. That's why open world content should not be skippable by just flying over it, because nobody would play open world content anymore.

    And what does that say? You juts debunked your own argument: if there was permanent flying and all would just skip it, why force people to not skip it? And what means 'nobody would play open world content anymore'. That's just irrelevant arguing. If you need to kill enemies for certain drops you sure have to kill them on foot.

    You just all have the mindset of old and don't think out of the box. Just be cause 'perma flying' is labelled bad in MMOs you still think it's bad.

  • Ayakaru.6583Ayakaru.6583 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kabuki Theatre.9752 said:
    And how Exactly
    would it "ruin the game."?
    Seems to me other MMOs have not been
    "ruined"
    by having flying mounts that act just like real birds.

    People will skip content
    It will invalidate the challenge of exploration
    Getting anywhere would be a joke

    You played WoW, you should know flying killed that game

    To defeat the dragons, see the good in them.
    Zhaitan reunites lost ones, primordus creates fertile land, mordremoth spreads the green, and jormag..
    ..jormag? Who's that?

  • ProtoGunner.4953ProtoGunner.4953 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:

    @Kabuki Theatre.9752 said:
    And how Exactly
    would it "ruin the game."?
    Seems to me other MMOs have not been
    "ruined"
    by having flying mounts that act just like real birds.

    People will skip content
    It will invalidate the challenge of exploration
    Getting anywhere would be a joke

    You played WoW, you should know flying killed that game

    Except that flying has been introduced during BC and BC til Lich King was the most successful time for WoW. From like 7 mio to 12 mio active accounts. There were fewer during Vanilla (no flying) and fewer during times where you couldn't fly anymore (Draenor or what that was called). Your arguing is, again like from most people here, biased.

  • Ayakaru.6583Ayakaru.6583 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ProtoGunner.4953 said:

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:

    @Kabuki Theatre.9752 said:
    And how Exactly
    would it "ruin the game."?
    Seems to me other MMOs have not been
    "ruined"
    by having flying mounts that act just like real birds.

    People will skip content
    It will invalidate the challenge of exploration
    Getting anywhere would be a joke

    You played WoW, you should know flying killed that game

    Except that flying has been introduced during BC and BC til Lich King was the most successful time for WoW. From like 7 mio to 12 mio active accounts. There were fewer during Vanilla (no flying) and fewer during times where you couldn't fly anymore (Draenor or what that was called). Your arguing is, again like from most people here, biased.

    The lich king made the game great.
    Everyone played up to that point because of the lich king, and just kind of sticked around afterwards.
    Very few people argue that flying didn't kill wow.
    Biased, maybe, but it's a popular opinion, even among wow players

    To defeat the dragons, see the good in them.
    Zhaitan reunites lost ones, primordus creates fertile land, mordremoth spreads the green, and jormag..
    ..jormag? Who's that?