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The only reason poeple complain about soulbeast is because it has a chance to dismount them


Anput.4620

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Bunkers are still the best 1v1 specs right now and soulbeast can't do anything to stop them, if you run full glass then you are toast as soon as they evade your burst, the balanced build is better. Like really bring the oh-so broken soulbeast against a mirage, chrono, berserker, protection holo or boonbeast, or a good hybrid guardian, no chance.

Many specs are way better than soulbeast for 1v1, but it sounds like this is not about balance in fights but the fact that soulbeast may have a chance of dismounting someone, unlike those even more broken builds, so poeple come complain about soulbeast and not those others as they just walk past those.

Sicc Em isn't even a mandatory inclusion as boonbeast doesn't even use it which shows it isn't undeniably OP, which is a way better build than regular soulbeast, but no one complains about that build, or these other duelist builds which are better than soulbeast for 1v1s, why? They don't shoot you off your mount, even though being a better duelist by miles.

The only poeple that die to the glassbeast, which isn't a good build even(the balanced build with some survivability is a better duelist), are bad squishies that just try to run instead of fight. Heck, berserker arc divider burst still hits for twice as much as a rapid fire yet no one complains about that anymore after the nerf, because it doesn't shoot you off your mount.

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@noot.8641 said:Seems to me that you don’t want your broken build to get nerfed.

How is the build broken compared to the others i listed? How is sicc em broken when it isn't a mandatory inclusion? Provide some arguments with valid comparisons next time.

I'd 1v1 a ranger over a mesmer any time.

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It’s not about 1v1’s.. in 1v1 they arent that strong, it’s about when u are running around in wvw and some retard sickem comes along and 1 bursts you from 2000 range, there is nothing u can do except find a spot out of LoS, but by that time your already dead. It’s about the powercreep. This much dmg from range is just silly.

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@noot.8641 said:It’s not about 1v1’s.. in 1v1 they arent that strong, it’s about when u are running around in wvw and some kitten sickem comes along and 1 bursts you from 2000 range, there is nothing u can do except find a spot out of LoS, but by that time your already dead. It’s about the powercreep. This much dmg from range is just silly.

Yes, it is about dismounting just like you just said. other builds can do as much, and even more damage. Also, you can just pop an evade or dodge, then LOS. If they are glass they have no followup at all. If you are a mesmer you can just TP and oneshot them, same with guardian or a thief. Also the situation you described IS 1v1?

Other classes can do this too, except not if you are on your mount, sounds like a dismounting complaint to me. Pre-mount no one cared and it was all about thieves and mesmers and holos.

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Lol dude, if a ranger dismounts me with rapid fire, they are fucked anyways. So no, i rly don’t care about the dismounting, i am even happy when someone tried it, because then i have a fight, something u almost don’t get anymore because of the mounts. I rly dunno where u get this idea from.I am talking mainly when u are fighting someone and they come out of nowhere, you have 2 seconds to react or ur dead. If i have shadowstep up its easy to get away, but otherwise their burst is unblockable, and AA’s do like 5 to 6k dmg.What i am talking about is that the build is too strong for just pressing 2 buttons.

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The only reason poeple complain about soulbeast is because it has a chance to dismount them

If that would be so, then answer me why there was so much hate towards rangers (SB) even before mount release?

Thank you, nice discuss, we should have another one in the future.Have a good day.

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Of course! Obviously being dismounted is the problem. Not at all the fact, that you're assaulted by someone, who has a good chance to kill you without (quite some builds) having a chance to even reach the assaulter.Hell, you might be dismounted and subsequently killed. Clearly the "being dismounted" part is the reason people are annoyed.

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wich profession is better in an isolated 1 vs 1 doesnt matter in roaming, as most fights in roaming are not isolated. boonbeast is trash compared to sic em ranger for roaming. it might be better in a limited space 1 vs 1, but else it will just be kited and/or ignored. and thats basically for all the tankier builds, they cannot force a fight, they cannot finish a fight against a target that doesnt want to, while they still can be bursted down by some burst and run builds if they dont react fast enough or have everything ready, such a situation can easily be made.

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It's not about being dismounted, it's about being killed while you're still in the air, in the process of dismounting, when you still don't have access to skills.

If you didnt see complaints about soulbeast before mounts then you haven't been paying attention.

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@MUDse.7623 said:wich profession is better in an isolated 1 vs 1 doesnt matter in roaming, as most fights in roaming are not isolated. boonbeast is trash compared to sic em ranger for roaming. it might be better in a limited space 1 vs 1, but else it will just be kited and/or ignored. and thats basically for all the tankier builds, they cannot force a fight, they cannot finish a fight against a target that doesnt want to, while they still can be bursted down by some burst and run builds if they dont react fast enough or have everything ready, such a situation can easily be made.

More or less this.

In a duel in WvW I would rather go vs a one shot SB than a bruiser build. However if I play my more bruiser built DH, vs a good player on glass SB, I am still in range of being 1 hit, if I block or dodge it, I still have LOTS of trouble trying to kill them, as their range and kiting or straight running ability is quite strong. Most in WvW however who you see on SB are not good at all, and are just face rolling, so they are easy enough kills even on my bruiser build. Builds that can hit that hard and that hard from stealth can make for some frustrating game play and are not good for the game mode.

I understand why more people are running it however, or running more burst over all....The mount. If you want fights, you HAVE to be able to burst and often has to be range burst, so SB and Rev are common for this. Outside of that, you are not going to get fights and spend your time running around trying to herd cats. WvW isn't PvP anymore, its Cat Herding Simulator.

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Its a problem that a Soulbeast can, from 2000 range, drop a target from mounted to downed before that person can react. It would be a problem regardless of the perpetrator. But, as others of said Soulbeast has been a problem before mounts. Sic'em itself should not be +40% while merged, 20% would be fine though.

I mostly roam on my Reaper, and frankly BoonBeasts are free bags. They typically do not carry an unblockable utility, and Corrosive Poison Cloud nerfs their damage. Most rangers never notice the cloud destroying their arrows FYI.

Arc Divider, you at least have get into melee range, get full adrenaline or pop a utility for it, initiate a mode that has a cast time that can be interrupted, and then you can use your burst. SB: buff at 2500 range while closing, quickly tap F5 + any useful utility, LB2, pew pew.

Ranger Longbow kind of needs AA and Rapid Fire damage nerfs to compensate for the range. To much reward for the level (lack) of risk involved.

Soulbeast drawback theory: One pet, half benefit from pet skills like Sic'em while merged, Beast Mode will have a 1s cast time.Honestly that would reign them in fine without have to touch LB damage.

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@Anput.4620 said:Bunkers are still the best 1v1 specs right now and soulbeast can't do anything to stop them, if you run full glass then you are toast as soon as they evade your burst, the balanced build is better. Like really bring the oh-so broken soulbeast against a mirage, chrono, berserker, protection holo or boonbeast, or a good hybrid guardian, no chance.

Many specs are way better than soulbeast for 1v1, but it sounds like this is not about balance in fights but the fact that soulbeast may have a chance of dismounting someone, unlike those even more broken builds, so poeple come complain about soulbeast and not those others as they just walk past those.

Sicc Em isn't even a mandatory inclusion as boonbeast doesn't even use it which shows it isn't undeniably OP, which is a way better build than regular soulbeast, but no one complains about that build, or these other duelist builds which are better than soulbeast for 1v1s, why? They don't shoot you off your mount, even though being a better duelist by miles.

The only poeple that die to the glassbeast, which isn't a good build even(the balanced build with some survivability is a better duelist), are bad squishies that just try to run instead of fight. Heck, berserker arc divider burst still hits for twice as much as a rapid fire yet no one complains about that anymore after the nerf, because it doesn't shoot you off your mount.

How do you lose against berserker?

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@RedShark.9548 said:

@Anput.4620 said:Bunkers are still the best 1v1 specs right now and soulbeast can't do anything to stop them, if you run full glass then you are toast as soon as they evade your burst, the balanced build is better. Like really bring the oh-so broken soulbeast against a mirage, chrono, berserker, protection holo or boonbeast, or a good hybrid guardian, no chance.

Many specs are way better than soulbeast for 1v1, but it sounds like this is not about balance in fights but the fact that soulbeast may have a chance of dismounting someone, unlike those even more broken builds, so poeple come complain about soulbeast and not those others as they just walk past those.

Sicc Em isn't even a mandatory inclusion as boonbeast doesn't even use it which shows it isn't undeniably OP, which is a way better build than regular soulbeast, but no one complains about that build, or these other duelist builds which are better than soulbeast for 1v1s, why? They don't shoot you off your mount, even though being a better duelist by miles.

The only poeple that die to the glassbeast, which isn't a good build even(the balanced build with some survivability is a better duelist), are bad squishies that just try to run instead of fight. Heck, berserker arc divider burst still hits for twice as much as a rapid fire yet no one complains about that anymore after the nerf, because it doesn't shoot you off your mount.

How do you lose against berserker?

Warrior can still get close enough to even just do that - arc devider

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@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@"Anput.4620" said:Bunkers are still the best 1v1 specs right now and soulbeast can't do anything to stop them, if you run full glass then you are toast as soon as they evade your burst, the balanced build is better. Like really bring the oh-so broken soulbeast against a mirage, chrono, berserker, protection holo or boonbeast, or a good hybrid guardian, no chance.

Many specs are way better than soulbeast for 1v1, but it sounds like this is not about balance in fights but the fact that soulbeast may have a chance of dismounting someone, unlike those even more broken builds, so poeple come complain about soulbeast and not those others as they just walk past those.

Sicc Em isn't even a mandatory inclusion as boonbeast doesn't even use it which shows it isn't undeniably OP, which is a way better build than regular soulbeast, but no one complains about that build, or these other duelist builds which are better than soulbeast for 1v1s, why? They don't shoot you off your mount, even though being a better duelist by miles.

The only poeple that die to the glassbeast, which isn't a good build even(the balanced build with some survivability is a better duelist), are bad squishies that just try to run instead of fight. Heck, berserker arc divider burst still hits for twice as much as a rapid fire yet no one complains about that anymore after the nerf, because it doesn't shoot you off your mount.

How do you lose against berserker?

Warrior can still get close enough to even just do that - arc devider

And soulbeast can still use dodge, block, blind, use one of his movement skills to avoid it, arc divider is so easy to see. And the ony "good" thing that berserker has. Especially that he has nothing when hes not in berserker.

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@Widmo.3186 said:

The only reason poeple complain about soulbeast is because it has a chance to dismount them

If that would be so, then answer me why there was so much hate towards rangers (SB) even before mount release?

Thank you, nice discuss, we should have another one in the future.Have a good day.

Why is there so much ranger hate now while all the mesmer/holo/thief hate has died down?

@noot.8641 said:Lol dude, if a ranger dismounts me with rapid fire, they are kitten anyways. So no, i rly don’t care about the dismounting, i am even happy when someone tried it, because then i have a fight, something u almost don’t get anymore because of the mounts. I rly dunno where u get this idea from.I am talking mainly when u are fighting someone and they come out of nowhere, you have 2 seconds to react or ur dead. If i have shadowstep up its easy to get away, but otherwise their burst is unblockable, and AA’s do like 5 to 6k dmg.What i am talking about is that the build is too strong for just pressing 2 buttons.

A ton of classes can do that, eg mesmer and thief.

@Dawdler.8521 said:This is the same argument about roamers in general pre-mount, thieves, mesmers.

Clearly they should never have had any skill nerfs since the ranger doesnt have any OP skills by the same definition.

How is it OP when it isn't even a mandatory inclusion in every good build?

@MUDse.7623 said:wich profession is better in an isolated 1 vs 1 doesnt matter in roaming, as most fights in roaming are not isolated. boonbeast is trash compared to sic em ranger for roaming. it might be better in a limited space 1 vs 1, but else it will just be kited and/or ignored. and thats basically for all the tankier builds, they cannot force a fight, they cannot finish a fight against a target that doesnt want to, while they still can be bursted down by some burst and run builds if they dont react fast enough or have everything ready, such a situation can easily be made.

Boonbeast has enough damage and mobility to finish fights, the only thing holding them back now is mounts.

@RedShark.9548 said:

@"Anput.4620" said:Bunkers are still the best 1v1 specs right now and soulbeast can't do anything to stop them, if you run full glass then you are toast as soon as they evade your burst, the balanced build is better. Like really bring the oh-so broken soulbeast against a mirage, chrono, berserker, protection holo or boonbeast, or a good hybrid guardian, no chance.

Many specs are way better than soulbeast for 1v1, but it sounds like this is not about balance in fights but the fact that soulbeast may have a chance of dismounting someone, unlike those even more broken builds, so poeple come complain about soulbeast and not those others as they just walk past those.

Sicc Em isn't even a mandatory inclusion as boonbeast doesn't even use it which shows it isn't undeniably OP, which is a way better build than regular soulbeast, but no one complains about that build, or these other duelist builds which are better than soulbeast for 1v1s, why? They don't shoot you off your mount, even though being a better duelist by miles.

The only poeple that die to the glassbeast, which isn't a good build even(the balanced build with some survivability is a better duelist), are bad squishies that just try to run instead of fight. Heck, berserker arc divider burst still hits for twice as much as a rapid fire yet no one complains about that anymore after the nerf, because it doesn't shoot you off your mount.

How do you lose against berserker?

Warrior can still get close enough to even just do that - arc devider

And soulbeast can still use dodge, block, blind, use one of his movement skills to avoid it, arc divider is so easy to see. And the ony "good" thing that berserker has. Especially that he has nothing when hes not in berserker.

I compared general use, not a straight matchup, also other classes can also evade soulbeast by that logic. When a soulbeast pewpews my ele ill just use one of mu 7 evades and it's no prob.

@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:wich profession is better in an isolated 1 vs 1 doesnt matter in roaming, as most fights in roaming are not isolated. boonbeast is trash compared to sic em ranger for roaming. it might be better in a limited space 1 vs 1, but else it will just be kited and/or ignored. and thats basically for all the tankier builds, they cannot force a fight, they cannot finish a fight against a target that doesnt want to, while they still can be bursted down by some burst and run builds if they dont react fast enough or have everything ready, such a situation can easily be made.

More or less this.

In a duel in WvW I would rather go vs a one shot SB than a bruiser build. However if I play my more bruiser built DH, vs a good player on glass SB, I am still in range of being 1 hit, if I block or dodge it, I still have LOTS of trouble trying to kill them, as their range and kiting or straight running ability is quite strong. Most in WvW however who you see on SB are not good at all, and are just face rolling, so they are easy enough kills even on my bruiser build. Builds that can hit that hard and that hard from stealth can make for some frustrating game play and are not good for the game mode.

I understand why more people are running it however, or running more burst over all....The mount. If you want fights, you HAVE to be able to burst and often has to be range burst, so SB and Rev are common for this. Outside of that, you are not going to get fights and spend your time running around trying to heard cats. WvW isn't PvP anymore, its Cat Harding Simulator.

Exactly what you said, you are basically forced to play this or a rev.

Also funny how poeple say boonbeast has no mobility when it has as much, if not more than soulbeast.

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@Anput.4620 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:wich profession is better in an isolated 1 vs 1 doesnt matter in roaming, as most fights in roaming are not isolated. boonbeast is trash compared to sic em ranger for roaming. it might be better in a limited space 1 vs 1, but else it will just be kited and/or ignored. and thats basically for all the tankier builds, they cannot force a fight, they cannot finish a fight against a target that doesnt want to, while they still can be bursted down by some burst and run builds if they dont react fast enough or have everything ready, such a situation can easily be made.

Boonbeast has enough damage and mobility to finish fights, the only thing holding them back now is mounts.if you think so, guess thats why even before the mounts they were pretty much non existent in WvW roaming.

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@MUDse.7623 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:wich profession is better in an isolated 1 vs 1 doesnt matter in roaming, as most fights in roaming are not isolated. boonbeast is trash compared to sic em ranger for roaming. it might be better in a limited space 1 vs 1, but else it will just be kited and/or ignored. and thats basically for all the tankier builds, they cannot force a fight, they cannot finish a fight against a target that doesnt want to, while they still can be bursted down by some burst and run builds if they dont react fast enough or have everything ready, such a situation can easily be made.

Boonbeast has enough damage and mobility to finish fights, the only thing holding them back now is mounts.if you think so, guess thats why even before the mounts they were pretty much non existent in WvW roaming.

They really weren't, boonbeast has 2 dashes too, and often sits in snow owl while soulbeast has to go out of smokescale and wait 10 seconds before they have 2 dashes. I mainly played boonbeast pre-mount and i can tell you it's way better.

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@RedShark.9548 said:

@"Anput.4620" said:Bunkers are still the best 1v1 specs right now and soulbeast can't do anything to stop them, if you run full glass then you are toast as soon as they evade your burst, the balanced build is better. Like really bring the oh-so broken soulbeast against a mirage, chrono, berserker, protection holo or boonbeast, or a good hybrid guardian, no chance.

Many specs are way better than soulbeast for 1v1, but it sounds like this is not about balance in fights but the fact that soulbeast may have a chance of dismounting someone, unlike those even more broken builds, so poeple come complain about soulbeast and not those others as they just walk past those.

Sicc Em isn't even a mandatory inclusion as boonbeast doesn't even use it which shows it isn't undeniably OP, which is a way better build than regular soulbeast, but no one complains about that build, or these other duelist builds which are better than soulbeast for 1v1s, why? They don't shoot you off your mount, even though being a better duelist by miles.

The only poeple that die to the glassbeast, which isn't a good build even(the balanced build with some survivability is a better duelist), are bad squishies that just try to run instead of fight. Heck, berserker arc divider burst still hits for twice as much as a rapid fire yet no one complains about that anymore after the nerf, because it doesn't shoot you off your mount.

How do you lose against berserker?

Warrior can still get close enough to even just do that - arc devider

And soulbeast can still use dodge, block, blind, use one of his movement skills to avoid it, arc divider is so easy to see. And the ony "good" thing that berserker has. Especially that he has nothing when hes not in berserker.

And a warrior doesn't have gap closers or ranged secondary weapon sets, condi cleanses, immobilizes, and unblockables? Gunflame and Decapitate make the second and third good things Berserkers have. Bloody Roar makes four.

My point is all the ways you mentioned to counter a Berserker, a Berserker can counter play. Arc Divider is easy to see only because Berserk Mode has to precede it. What you may not see coming however, is Headbutt. The only thing saving you then is any passive invuln procs.

TLDR; How do you lose to a Berserker? Be in melee range and get CC'd even once.

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A class/spec can have a skill,trait or a single burst type that's OP and needs to be nerfed while retaining a semblance of balance throughout the rest of the class. The problem with sic em slb builds is the potential to do things that no class should be able to do. For example ur in wvw and see one of ur allies in a fight and from 1500 range merge,pop sic em and and either point blank shot followed by rapid or just use rapid and literally one out right kill opponent or atleast drop 90% of their health. They didnt dodge cuz they were focused on the fight or have used their dodges all while ur attack was unblockable and done without even joking the fight. Way too much reward for risk. I've used sic em alot in wvw and DE also and I can assure u as both are very trolly atleast DE is very clunky to use in comparison. I'd feel far more competent on a ranger if fight turned into a 1v1 though both are able to disengage easily. Stating that soulbeast builds arnt OP due to other aspects of the spec does not negate that sic em damage modifier is to high and not in line with other classes as any that existed were nerfed,look at guard RI. Also stating that the burst isn't useful in high AT's also doesnt mean that it's not OP on it's own.The fact that a skill can easily be made unblock able while achieving a 40% + damage through traits and and utility skills is enough for it to be considered op let alone at 1800 range. Its incredible it has lasted this long as it is.I've been running on my mount and got dismounted and downed in a single sic em burst as I have also done the same to others. I've never seen a single class do the same. U mention thief,I dont run DE and my sb sure as heck isn't dismounting anyone and if I port and try dismounting through melee I've got nothing left when the fight happens lol but usually mounted players can easily about being dismounted by a non DE thief by running forward lol.

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