seriously kitten everything two shot everything, ok nerf every passive trait was a good idea because it was so kitten but pls nerf a bit all damage of every class
@Lala.8752 said:
seriously kitten everything two shot everything, ok nerf every passive trait was a good idea because it was so kitten but pls nerf a bit all damage of every class
@Lala.8752 said:
seriously kitten everything two shot everything, ok nerf every passive trait was a good idea because it was so kitten but pls nerf a bit all damage of every class
@Lala.8752 said:
seriously kitten everything two shot everything, ok nerf every passive trait was a good idea because it was so kitten but pls nerf a bit all damage of every class
Stop using squishy amulets
But he won't be able to 2 shot things if he don't use a squishy amulet.
Anyway, in one thread people point out the damage and in the other people point out the defense. Somehow I guess this mean that overall damage and defense are balanced.
@Lala.8752 said:
seriously kitten everything two shot everything, ok nerf every passive trait was a good idea because it was so kitten but pls nerf a bit all damage of every class
Stop using squishy amulets
But he won't be able to 2 shot things if he don't use a squishy amulet.
Anyway, in one thread people point out the damage and in the other people point out the defense. Somehow I guess this mean that overall damage and defense are balanced.
No. The extreme ends of defense are OP cus they can't die to 1 player at all if they know how to kite. FB can live forever against 1 player running full glass if both are good. 2 medium dmg classes also can't kill 1 FB. That's why more people play straight up DPS so they have a better chance vs bunker builds. But more ppl running builds with 0 toughness also means they get 2shot by other players with the same build.
2shotting and 1shots have been possible since 2013 and probably even before, but that's when I started getting into the game.
Back then, we would just tell ppl complaining about getting 2shot/1shot that they needed to add toughness to their build, and that would solve the problem. Nowadays, people don't want to listen, but it's also because you need this crazy dmg to kill bunker builds.
@DanAlcedo.3281 said:
I wonder what would happen if we reduce the amount of stats amulets give by 20%.
Really they should probably shave down some damage multipliers by as much as half instead.
Stats are additive and something everyone has a choice in, multipliers are multiplicative and something that some classes have as much as 2 times more than others filling the same role.
@DanAlcedo.3281 said:
I wonder what would happen if we reduce the amount of stats amulets give by 20%.
Really they should probably shave down some damage multipliers by as much as half instead.
Stats are additive and something everyone has a choice in, multipliers are multiplicative and something that some classes have as much as 2 times more than others filling the same role.
Only if they also reduce healing from healing skills by the same amount. Cus toughness + healing / condiclear on bunker builds have the same multiplicative problem.
@bigo.9037 said:
Only if they also reduce healing from healing skills by the same amount. Cus toughness + healing / condiclear on bunker builds have the same multiplicative problem.
@DanAlcedo.3281 said:
I wonder what would happen if we reduce the amount of stats amulets give by 20%.
Really they should probably shave down some damage multipliers by as much as half instead.
Stats are additive and something everyone has a choice in, multipliers are multiplicative and something that some classes have as much as 2 times more than others filling the same role.
From there? Well when it comes down to high DPS side-noders and going strictly by the multiplier traits i'd say Holo, Herald, and SLB are the decidedly better side-noders. Holo and SLB's are just always there, and that's building off of great kits to begin with. Herald because they have so many, but more importantly; A power shatter mesmer sort of measures up the same way when trying to build for max damage, only you'd get more as Herald, and you'd get no LoS ports that give unblockables and even more damage on top of that.
I wouldn't put too much value on my opinion, as i'm certainly no professional, and not really all that concerned with balance to begin with, but; to briefly categorize the side-noders as I see them:
In GW1, a monk (healer) could outheal the most damage dealers, sometimes 2 to 4 vs 1.
In GW2, high-damage builds don't even give time to attempt to do any healing.
@Lala.8752 said:
seriously kitten everything two shot everything, ok nerf every passive trait was a good idea because it was so kitten but pls nerf a bit all damage of every class
Stop using squishy amulets
But he won't be able to 2 shot things if he don't use a squishy amulet.
Anyway, in one thread people point out the damage and in the other people point out the defense. Somehow I guess this mean that overall damage and defense are balanced.
Rock paper scissors is balanced. Flipping a coin is balanced. Would you do either of those things for fun?
"Balance" does not matter when every meta build is so overpowered that the game feels like a button mashing competition
@Lala.8752 said:
seriously kitten everything two shot everything, ok nerf every passive trait was a good idea because it was so kitten but pls nerf a bit all damage of every class
Stop using squishy amulets
But he won't be able to 2 shot things if he don't use a squishy amulet.
Anyway, in one thread people point out the damage and in the other people point out the defense. Somehow I guess this mean that overall damage and defense are balanced.
Rock paper scissors is balanced. Flipping a coin is balanced. Would you do either of those things for fun?
"Balance" does not matter when every meta build is so overpowered that the game feels like a button mashing competition
Decrease game speed slightly on some classes could be a thing to, this way macros would have more dificult to execute, and Anet could notice players that hack trough package editing.
@Lala.8752 said:
seriously kitten everything two shot everything, ok nerf every passive trait was a good idea because it was so kitten but pls nerf a bit all damage of every class
Stop using squishy amulets
But he won't be able to 2 shot things if he don't use a squishy amulet.
Anyway, in one thread people point out the damage and in the other people point out the defense. Somehow I guess this mean that overall damage and defense are balanced.
Rock paper scissors is balanced. Flipping a coin is balanced. Would you do either of those things for fun?
"Balance" does not matter when every meta build is so overpowered that the game feels like a button mashing competition
Sure who mashes the right buttons at the right time in the right place... That's the question. Every game is just mashing buttons, at least on pc anyway.
Just no.... If you said that 1.5 seasons ago (so AT LEAST 3 balance patches ago) I would have agreed because all the meta was burst. It has been toned down so my guess is the same as everyone else, whatever you play you lack of defensiv options or it is your awereness on a situation that leads you to a quick death.
You also have defensive "passiv traits" and defensive options/builds on different classes.
Rock paper scissors is balanced. Flipping a coin is balanced. Would you do either of those things for fun?
"Balance" does not matter when every meta build is so overpowered that the game feels like a button mashing competition
Every class/build should not/cannot be ready for a 1V1 VS everything. I have to disagree with you because most of those meta builds also have a weakness that an other meta build can exploit making teamfight and positioning also important. It is also possible to adapt your build (and recommended in solo queue) depending on the ennemy team.
@Lala.8752 said:
seriously kitten everything two shot everything, ok nerf every passive trait was a good idea because it was so kitten but pls nerf a bit all damage of every class
Stop using squishy amulets
But he won't be able to 2 shot things if he don't use a squishy amulet.
Anyway, in one thread people point out the damage and in the other people point out the defense. Somehow I guess this mean that overall damage and defense are balanced.
Rock paper scissors is balanced. Flipping a coin is balanced. Would you do either of those things for fun?
"Balance" does not matter when every meta build is so overpowered that the game feels like a button mashing competition
Sure who mashes the right buttons at the right time in the right place... That's the question. Every game is just mashing buttons, at least on pc anyway.
In good games you have to think about every action. In GW2, it mostly comes down to spamming as hard as you can. I don't think you understand how dumbed down the game has gotten since the HoT days... A bronze league player from those days could easily reach platinum now because skill is hardly a factor anymore.
Most of the former ESL players have quit the game and/or come out vocally about how faceroll the meta has become. This is not even a debate. This is common knowledge to anyone who knows what they are talking about. I know you casuals AKA GW2's target audience in 2019 like being able to roll your faces on your keyboards to win, but that is not how competitive games are supposed to work.
@Elementalist Owner.7802 said:
In good games you have to think about every action. In GW2, it mostly comes down to spamming as hard as you can. I don't think you understand how dumbed down the game has gotten since the HoT days... A bronze league player from those days could easily reach platinum now because skill is hardly a factor anymore.
Most of the former ESL players have quit the game and/or come out vocally about how faceroll the meta has become. This is not even a debate. This is common knowledge to anyone who knows what they are talking about. I know you casuals AKA GW2's target audience in 2019 like being able to roll your faces on your keyboards to win, but that is not how competitive games are supposed to work.
Some hours have passed and maybe you had time to consider what you wrote. I am right and if you disagree you are bad is what comes out of it.
In good games you have to think about every action. In GW2, it mostly comes down to spamming as hard as you can : The game has gone faster, so what? Can you really spam all you want? Can you really stay in range and sustain when so many classes have teleport/rush abilities? Can you really rush in on every class and take someone down before dying? Do you not care about the timing for stunbreaks or the positioning of aoe fields? I can think of some examples were I agree and miss the core days, like traps on ranger were thieves would not stand a chance (then with daredevil they walked in like it was nothing) but it also enabled different playstyles on the classes (like after Pof were reaper got a full rework for power builds [yes should have been like this at the start]). Also were all the meta fast? I do remember a lot of slow periods filled with bunkers (and it was boring).
A bronze league player from those days could easily reach platinum now because skill is hardly a factor anymore. : Sounds like everybody is plat or has reached it (which is false). Someone can reach plat once by playing the “strongest” of the meta (because yes it definitely happened) but will they stay plat every season? I am also sure everybody who was bronze back then and reached plat now could have improved or just played more than during core days. Also since you use plat/bronze as a reference how would you classify the ranking before the seasons were introduced (so during hot days)? I know a lot of people (including myself) who barely cared before that.
@Lala.8752 said:
seriously kitten everything two shot everything, ok nerf every passive trait was a good idea because it was so kitten but pls nerf a bit all damage of every class
Stop using squishy amulets
But he won't be able to 2 shot things if he don't use a squishy amulet.
Anyway, in one thread people point out the damage and in the other people point out the defense. Somehow I guess this mean that overall damage and defense are balanced.
Rock paper scissors is balanced. Flipping a coin is balanced. Would you do either of those things for fun?
"Balance" does not matter when every meta build is so overpowered that the game feels like a button mashing competition
Sure who mashes the right buttons at the right time in the right place... That's the question. Every game is just mashing buttons, at least on pc anyway.
In good games you have to think about every action. In GW2, it mostly comes down to spamming as hard as you can. I don't think you understand how dumbed down the game has gotten since the HoT days... A bronze league player from those days could easily reach platinum now because skill is hardly a factor anymore.
Most of the former ESL players have quit the game and/or come out vocally about how faceroll the meta has become. This is not even a debate. This is common knowledge to anyone who knows what they are talking about. I know you casuals AKA GW2's target audience in 2019 like being able to roll your faces on your keyboards to win, but that is not how competitive games are supposed to work.
Hahaha bronze reaching plat hahah yea no.
I'd agree there's more button pressing cus there's more abilities and the cooldowns are slightly lower but other than that it's basically just the powercreep, which is NOT good but it doesn't mean that just anybody can be top dawg facerolling. If you just press as many buttons as fast as possible you're not gonna win a fight, you're gonna blow your defense and big impact skills on nothing.
@Lala.8752 said:
seriously kitten everything two shot everything, ok nerf every passive trait was a good idea because it was so kitten but pls nerf a bit all damage of every class
Stop using squishy amulets
But he won't be able to 2 shot things if he don't use a squishy amulet.
Anyway, in one thread people point out the damage and in the other people point out the defense. Somehow I guess this mean that overall damage and defense are balanced.
Rock paper scissors is balanced. Flipping a coin is balanced. Would you do either of those things for fun?
"Balance" does not matter when every meta build is so overpowered that the game feels like a button mashing competition
Sure who mashes the right buttons at the right time in the right place... That's the question. Every game is just mashing buttons, at least on pc anyway.
In good games you have to think about every action. In GW2, it mostly comes down to spamming as hard as you can. I don't think you understand how dumbed down the game has gotten since the HoT days... A bronze league player from those days could easily reach platinum now because skill is hardly a factor anymore.
Most of the former ESL players have quit the game and/or come out vocally about how faceroll the meta has become. This is not even a debate. This is common knowledge to anyone who knows what they are talking about. I know you casuals AKA GW2's target audience in 2019 like being able to roll your faces on your keyboards to win, but that is not how competitive games are supposed to work.
It definitely has become more dumbed down, without a doubt, but pretty sure as I've said somewhere else, if you pitted the best players against mediocre or even high tier players with exactly the same build in a duel you'd quite easily see a world of difference. Same thing with a 5 man team in a game.
"Mostly comes down to spamming as hard as you can." is a bit disingenuous.
@Lala.8752 said:
seriously kitten everything two shot everything, ok nerf every passive trait was a good idea because it was so kitten but pls nerf a bit all damage of every class
Stop using squishy amulets
But he won't be able to 2 shot things if he don't use a squishy amulet.
Anyway, in one thread people point out the damage and in the other people point out the defense. Somehow I guess this mean that overall damage and defense are balanced.
Rock paper scissors is balanced. Flipping a coin is balanced. Would you do either of those things for fun?
"Balance" does not matter when every meta build is so overpowered that the game feels like a button mashing competition
Sure who mashes the right buttons at the right time in the right place... That's the question. Every game is just mashing buttons, at least on pc anyway.
In good games you have to think about every action. In GW2, it mostly comes down to spamming as hard as you can. I don't think you understand how dumbed down the game has gotten since the HoT days... A bronze league player from those days could easily reach platinum now because skill is hardly a factor anymore.
Most of the former ESL players have quit the game and/or come out vocally about how faceroll the meta has become. This is not even a debate. This is common knowledge to anyone who knows what they are talking about. I know you casuals AKA GW2's target audience in 2019 like being able to roll your faces on your keyboards to win, but that is not how competitive games are supposed to work.
It definitely has become more dumbed down, without a doubt, but pretty sure as I've said somewhere else, if you pitted the best players against mediocre or even high tier players with exactly the same build in a duel you'd quite easily see a world of difference. Same thing with a 5 man team in a game.
"Mostly comes down to spamming as hard as you can." is a bit disingenuous.
I would agree with you that the "best" players (MAT winners and maybe the top 10 ranked leaderboard players) could beat almost anyone in the game, although not with the level of consistency that we had seen in the HoT days when skill mattered more.
You also have to consider that these players are exceptional, so not the best example to use when we're talking about the entire PvP scene. They stand out because they are leagues better than the rest in terms of mechanical skill and rotational knowledge. You have to look at a more saturated sample of the playerbase, such as the platinum, gold, and silver leagues, where the difference in skill is not as dramatic. At these levels, you can clearly see that the difference in skill hardly affects the outcome of the fight or match.
The "mostly comes down to spamming as hard as you can" line was a bit of hyperbole lol. I got carried away when arguing with those soulbeast mains who have absolutely no idea what they are talking about.
@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:
Nerf damage in pvp by 80%
Nerf healing in pvp by 85%
All problems with 1-shot builds will get fixed instantly.
What... lol if u loose more healing than dps u will get more 1 shotted?!?
Did u just take bait of a troll comment?
...... Math should be mandatory class in every country....
Lets take soulbeast VS basic guardian as an example.
Guardian have about 17k HP in a moderate build. Soulbeast can potentially dish out 12k DPS. Currently, that guardian survives for 1.4 sec.
If all damage get reduced by 80%, then soulbeast would only be able to deal 2.4k dps. So, the same guardian with 17k HP would survive for at least 7 sec.
Where are you seeing 1-shot in here?
@Lala.8752 said:
seriously kitten everything two shot everything, ok nerf every passive trait was a good idea because it was so kitten but pls nerf a bit all damage of every class
Stop using squishy amulets
But he won't be able to 2 shot things if he don't use a squishy amulet.
Anyway, in one thread people point out the damage and in the other people point out the defense. Somehow I guess this mean that overall damage and defense are balanced.
Rock paper scissors is balanced. Flipping a coin is balanced. Would you do either of those things for fun?
"Balance" does not matter when every meta build is so overpowered that the game feels like a button mashing competition
Yeah, here's an idea. 'Balance' does not always mean buff! Nerf is also part of the equation! The powercreep is off the charts, I can just literally mash keys and get results even with professions I've never played. I'm sorry, but that's terrible. I don't care if they're 'easier to play', if makes for lousy pvp.
Comments
I wonder what would happen if we reduce the amount of stats amulets give by 20%.
Cries in thief
Teef is doing noodle damage
BUFF teef, undo lazy mechanics from Anet side ...
This^
Stop using squishy amulets
But he won't be able to 2 shot things if he don't use a squishy amulet.
Anyway, in one thread people point out the damage and in the other people point out the defense. Somehow I guess this mean that overall damage and defense are balanced.
No. The extreme ends of defense are OP cus they can't die to 1 player at all if they know how to kite. FB can live forever against 1 player running full glass if both are good. 2 medium dmg classes also can't kill 1 FB. That's why more people play straight up DPS so they have a better chance vs bunker builds. But more ppl running builds with 0 toughness also means they get 2shot by other players with the same build.
2shotting and 1shots have been possible since 2013 and probably even before, but that's when I started getting into the game.
Back then, we would just tell ppl complaining about getting 2shot/1shot that they needed to add toughness to their build, and that would solve the problem. Nowadays, people don't want to listen, but it's also because you need this crazy dmg to kill bunker builds.
Really they should probably shave down some damage multipliers by as much as half instead.
Stats are additive and something everyone has a choice in, multipliers are multiplicative and something that some classes have as much as 2 times more than others filling the same role.
Remove or Split DuoQ, revolution of our time! 😷
Only if they also reduce healing from healing skills by the same amount. Cus toughness + healing / condiclear on bunker builds have the same multiplicative problem.
no, they don't lol.
Te lazla otstara.
It's okay, you can say who that is.
https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/941977/#Comment_941977
From there? Well when it comes down to high DPS side-noders and going strictly by the multiplier traits i'd say Holo, Herald, and SLB are the decidedly better side-noders. Holo and SLB's are just always there, and that's building off of great kits to begin with. Herald because they have so many, but more importantly; A power shatter mesmer sort of measures up the same way when trying to build for max damage, only you'd get more as Herald, and you'd get no LoS ports that give unblockables and even more damage on top of that.
I wouldn't put too much value on my opinion, as i'm certainly no professional, and not really all that concerned with balance to begin with, but; to briefly categorize the side-noders as I see them:
OP: Soulbeast, Holo, Scrapper, Herald
Balanced: Spellbreaker, Mesmer
Underpowered: Weaver, Core Guard?
Remove or Split DuoQ, revolution of our time! 😷
Thief is fine in wvw , but in pvp in would it looses to classes that are overperforming in spvp.
>
Buff teef
In GW1, a monk (healer) could outheal the most damage dealers, sometimes 2 to 4 vs 1.
In GW2, high-damage builds don't even give time to attempt to do any healing.
Ascalon Will Prevail!
GW Wiki user page | GW2 Wiki user page
Nerf what is overperforming instead.
>
Would be best but we kno from past experience that isn't gonna happen. Powercreep is here to stay unfortunately.
Rock paper scissors is balanced. Flipping a coin is balanced. Would you do either of those things for fun?
"Balance" does not matter when every meta build is so overpowered that the game feels like a button mashing competition
this. 100x this
Decrease game speed slightly on some classes could be a thing to, this way macros would have more dificult to execute, and Anet could notice players that hack trough package editing.
Players would win so would Anet..
Sure who mashes the right buttons at the right time in the right place... That's the question. Every game is just mashing buttons, at least on pc anyway.
Just no.... If you said that 1.5 seasons ago (so AT LEAST 3 balance patches ago) I would have agreed because all the meta was burst. It has been toned down so my guess is the same as everyone else, whatever you play you lack of defensiv options or it is your awereness on a situation that leads you to a quick death.
You also have defensive "passiv traits" and defensive options/builds on different classes.
.> @Elementalist Owner.7802 said:
Every class/build should not/cannot be ready for a 1V1 VS everything. I have to disagree with you because most of those meta builds also have a weakness that an other meta build can exploit making teamfight and positioning also important. It is also possible to adapt your build (and recommended in solo queue) depending on the ennemy team.
In good games you have to think about every action. In GW2, it mostly comes down to spamming as hard as you can. I don't think you understand how dumbed down the game has gotten since the HoT days... A bronze league player from those days could easily reach platinum now because skill is hardly a factor anymore.
Most of the former ESL players have quit the game and/or come out vocally about how faceroll the meta has become. This is not even a debate. This is common knowledge to anyone who knows what they are talking about. I know you casuals AKA GW2's target audience in 2019 like being able to roll your faces on your keyboards to win, but that is not how competitive games are supposed to work.
Some hours have passed and maybe you had time to consider what you wrote. I am right and if you disagree you are bad is what comes out of it.
In good games you have to think about every action. In GW2, it mostly comes down to spamming as hard as you can : The game has gone faster, so what? Can you really spam all you want? Can you really stay in range and sustain when so many classes have teleport/rush abilities? Can you really rush in on every class and take someone down before dying? Do you not care about the timing for stunbreaks or the positioning of aoe fields? I can think of some examples were I agree and miss the core days, like traps on ranger were thieves would not stand a chance (then with daredevil they walked in like it was nothing) but it also enabled different playstyles on the classes (like after Pof were reaper got a full rework for power builds [yes should have been like this at the start]). Also were all the meta fast? I do remember a lot of slow periods filled with bunkers (and it was boring).
A bronze league player from those days could easily reach platinum now because skill is hardly a factor anymore. : Sounds like everybody is plat or has reached it (which is false). Someone can reach plat once by playing the “strongest” of the meta (because yes it definitely happened) but will they stay plat every season? I am also sure everybody who was bronze back then and reached plat now could have improved or just played more than during core days. Also since you use plat/bronze as a reference how would you classify the ranking before the seasons were introduced (so during hot days)? I know a lot of people (including myself) who barely cared before that.
Hahaha bronze reaching plat hahah yea no.
I'd agree there's more button pressing cus there's more abilities and the cooldowns are slightly lower but other than that it's basically just the powercreep, which is NOT good but it doesn't mean that just anybody can be top dawg facerolling. If you just press as many buttons as fast as possible you're not gonna win a fight, you're gonna blow your defense and big impact skills on nothing.
It definitely has become more dumbed down, without a doubt, but pretty sure as I've said somewhere else, if you pitted the best players against mediocre or even high tier players with exactly the same build in a duel you'd quite easily see a world of difference. Same thing with a 5 man team in a game.
"Mostly comes down to spamming as hard as you can." is a bit disingenuous.
The issue isn't amulets, it's boon spam and power crept talent trees. Too many classes have easy access to quickness, fury, and 25 might.
This is way too true, I remember when 25 might was a very rare occurence outside of dungeon runs or zergbreaking attempts in wvw.
I would agree with you that the "best" players (MAT winners and maybe the top 10 ranked leaderboard players) could beat almost anyone in the game, although not with the level of consistency that we had seen in the HoT days when skill mattered more.
You also have to consider that these players are exceptional, so not the best example to use when we're talking about the entire PvP scene. They stand out because they are leagues better than the rest in terms of mechanical skill and rotational knowledge. You have to look at a more saturated sample of the playerbase, such as the platinum, gold, and silver leagues, where the difference in skill is not as dramatic. At these levels, you can clearly see that the difference in skill hardly affects the outcome of the fight or match.
The "mostly comes down to spamming as hard as you can" line was a bit of hyperbole lol. I got carried away when arguing with those soulbeast mains who have absolutely no idea what they are talking about.
Nerf damage in pvp by 80%
Nerf healing in pvp by 85%
All problems with 1-shot builds will get fixed instantly.
What... lol if u loose more healing than dps u will get more 1 shotted?!?
Did u just take bait of a troll comment?
hgh damage is 1 thing if you get glasscanon> @Regon Phoenix.8215 said:
welcome bunkerwars, the more cc you can land the point is yours
thief still evades> @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
teef still evades, nerf it
...... Math should be mandatory class in every country....
Lets take soulbeast VS basic guardian as an example.
Guardian have about 17k HP in a moderate build. Soulbeast can potentially dish out 12k DPS. Currently, that guardian survives for 1.4 sec.
If all damage get reduced by 80%, then soulbeast would only be able to deal 2.4k dps. So, the same guardian with 17k HP would survive for at least 7 sec.
Where are you seeing 1-shot in here?
'Everytime someone says the meta is about maximising damage, he can’t be taken seriously.' Oxtred
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/archive/balance/The-zerker-meta-and-how-to-change-it
Yeah, here's an idea. 'Balance' does not always mean buff! Nerf is also part of the equation! The powercreep is off the charts, I can just literally mash keys and get results even with professions I've never played. I'm sorry, but that's terrible. I don't care if they're 'easier to play', if makes for lousy pvp.