Always wining in Dungeons & Fractals — Guild Wars 2 Forums
Home Fractals/Dungeons/Strike Missions/Raids

Always wining in Dungeons & Fractals

Currently, entering Dungeons or Fractals is a simple procedure (always wining), and putting 10 together for Raids is complicated.

Do a hard quest for 5 (apart from the current ones) in that you DO NOT ALWAYS WIN, but where we have to work hard and put together a good team (tank, support healer, dps, explosive damage & varied support).


P.D.: The problem with Fractals T4 + challenge mode:

  • You do not require a well-armed team, only very strong.
  • It is not available to everyone, only for those who have high AR.

The idea is that it is a real challenge, and that motivates all to look for fellow specialists in his/her area (tank, dps, healer, etc). Make it a real quest, with real partners :smile:

Comments

  • Skotlex.7580Skotlex.7580 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Unfortunately too much power creep has made almost all older content obsolete. Dungeons used to be hard, now they are mostly facetanked when it comes up as a daily.

    On the other hand, PvE difficulty is tied to mechanics. And the mechanics in question can either 1. Be learned and thus, the content is no longer challenging, or 2. Aren't followed and no matter how good one is, it's futile to try (ever attempted an aetherpath with a group of pugs who couldn't even communicate, much less figure out the mechanics? I have, it wasn't pleasant).

    The only way to promote challenge that won't be overcome easily, is by relying on random factors so that one must adapt rather than replay the same strategy each time (and when Anet tried this with the new fractal instabilities, the forum outrage was pretty extensive).

  • Aavataris.5720Aavataris.5720 Member ✭✭
    edited June 4, 2019

    It is that for the general of the community all change is "bad", but they ask for "new" things. They do not know what they want.

    They insulted and complained about:

    • The mounts
    • The gliders
    • "Flying" (glide and climb by currents of air)
    • The current system of the traits
    • etc.

    ...but all that has been great (or at least "not-bad")!
    Paradoxically, they are the worst ones to ask where the game should go, because they do not contribute ideas, they only look for the negative and allege.
    u¬¬D

  • Actually, most MMORPGs are too easy and the GW2 is the best one I've found (mostly because of the diversity of play modes, as well as the great versatility when building builds and characters), it rivals -or wins- against those of payment/subscription

    ...but, for the same reason, they could be pioneers in being a true online adventure, with real challenges :smile:

  • Taygus.4571Taygus.4571 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 4, 2019

    You do need a good team..not just strong for T4 CM fractals tho...
    Like good luck succeeding all bezerker wars or something lol

    That is your hard mode..needing AR, keeps beginners out...which is a good thing.

    And how many T4 for fractals are avoided because they're too difficult? I know the new pirate one is often a disaster.

  • Skotlex.7580Skotlex.7580 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Taygus.4571 said:
    And how many T4 for fractals are avoided because they're too difficult? I know the new pirate one is often a disaster.

    from what I read, the pirate fractal fails often because people try to burst down the boss, and then get overwhelmed by adds. Because the add spawns happen at set boss health intervals, the group should focus on deleting adds to succeed (and if they are good, they just pull the adds towards the boss for better cleaving efficiency).

    This goes back to knowing mechanics and not ignoring them.

  • Lorfi.7562Lorfi.7562 Member ✭✭

    @Taygus.4571 said:
    You do need a good team..not just strong for T4 CM fractals tho...
    Like good luck succeeding all bezerker wars or something lol

    That is your hard mode..needing AR, keeps beginners out...which is a good thing.

    And how many T4 for fractals are avoided because they're too difficult? I know the new pirate one is often a disaster.

    but the meta for cm's+t4's is only berserker gear, healers and such aren't ran with good teams just because how low pressure there is. you just run a chrono+sb for spirits+ 3dh/weaver or 2+a bs.

  • Taygus.4571Taygus.4571 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lorfi.7562 said:
    @Taygus.4571 said:
    You do need a good team..not just strong for T4 CM fractals tho...

    Like good luck succeeding all bezerker wars or something lol

    That is your hard mode..needing AR, keeps beginners out...which is a good thing.

    And how many T4 for fractals are avoided because they're too difficult? I know the new pirate one is often a disaster.

    but the meta for cm's+t4's is only berserker gear, healers and such aren't ran with good teams just because how low pressure there is. you just run a chrono+sb for spirits+ 3dh/weaver or 2+a bs.

    You have to be very good team, to run without a healer

  • Lorfi.7562Lorfi.7562 Member ✭✭

    Mainly depends on instabilities and which titles you have in the end tho. But even average teams can do 100/99cm and 100/99cm are not really that hard wo a healer tho, the impact of phasing bosses faster with properly timed aegis and cc makes half the fights literally golems that aren't doing anything is enormous. It's enormous to phase bosses in 10-15secs instead of 20-30s.

    Normal t4's can be a pain because of the dozens of adds that spawn.

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lorfi.7562 said:

    @Taygus.4571 said:
    You do need a good team..not just strong for T4 CM fractals tho...
    Like good luck succeeding all bezerker wars or something lol

    That is your hard mode..needing AR, keeps beginners out...which is a good thing.

    And how many T4 for fractals are avoided because they're too difficult? I know the new pirate one is often a disaster.

    but the meta for cm's+t4's is only berserker gear, healers and such aren't ran with good teams just because how low pressure there is. you just run a chrono+sb for spirits+ 3dh/weaver or 2+a bs.

    u call dedicating 1 player to be a healer becouse of constant incoming dmg, a challenging content? no man, cms are good, becouse u can avoid all dmg by urself, giving ppl healer, makes them focus on dealing dmg only and facetanking everything they possibly can.
    Things such as "random" "constant" incoming dmg is bad thing, and is artificial difficulty for the mode

    make prepardness baseline plz

  • Henry.5713Henry.5713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    That's an interesting view on what makes content hard when many others would actually claim that content in general became jokingly easy after HoT was released with it's heavy reliance on specific (overpowered) support builds.

    Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something. ~ Robert Heinlein

  • Rukario.1695Rukario.1695 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 6, 2019

    It only cost me 75g to go from 0 AR to 150 AR, I just did this yesterday ... not sure how people do not have at least 150 by now besides just not having the time for it.

    The main gold requirement is an Ascended Equipment set. Either way, as long as you have one of each piece, adding the AR to it is such a trivial task.

    More violence, less violets I say. I'm rich you know, because I watch the ledges.

  • Talindra.4958Talindra.4958 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 7, 2019

    this is probably like a 5 men raids?
    I would like to see this .. but difficulty isn't based on the same mechanic that we see it all the time - green circle, red circle, blue circles, pizza cones.. here and there..
    give us different mechanics.. include JP like clock tower.. include cannon shooting that requires good aim and reflects.. get josh foreman back to make hard 5 men content :)
    not just single boss dead target.. but more dynamic game content where all players to work together simultaneously..

    Death is Energy [DIE] in EU
    Envoy's Herald, EAoA, CoZ, VitV, DD, SS, The Eternal, LNHB, Champion Magus, Champion Phantom, Wondrous Achiever etc.

  • runeblade.7514runeblade.7514 Member ✭✭✭

    No because I don't want raid toxicity to go into Fractals and Dungeon.

    6x warrior/5xRanger/6x Revenant/6x Mesmer/5x Guardian/6x Thief/5x Engineer/5x Necromancer/5x Elementalist

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @runeblade.7514 said:
    No because I don't want raid toxicity to go into Fractals and Dungeon.

    What raid toxicity?
    Asking for kp already there if you do cms.
    Asking for specific classes same its already there if you do cms.
    Can you start your own group with what ever you want sure you can do the same thing in raids too.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @runeblade.7514 said:
    No because I don't want raid toxicity to go into Fractals and Dungeon.

    You mean players wanting those with similar experience in groups that they created is toxic behavior? You’re going to find this in raids and it certainly was present in dungeons when more players ran them.

  • runeblade.7514runeblade.7514 Member ✭✭✭

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @runeblade.7514 said:
    No because I don't want raid toxicity to go into Fractals and Dungeon.

    What raid toxicity?
    Asking for kp already there if you do cms.
    Asking for specific classes same its already there if you do cms.
    Can you start your own group with what ever you want sure you can do the same thing in raids too.

    Thanks for giving examples of raid toxicity in Fractals, I would like ANet not to continue to push that toxicity further.

    6x warrior/5xRanger/6x Revenant/6x Mesmer/5x Guardian/6x Thief/5x Engineer/5x Necromancer/5x Elementalist

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 22, 2019

    @runeblade.7514 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @runeblade.7514 said:
    No because I don't want raid toxicity to go into Fractals and Dungeon.

    What raid toxicity?
    Asking for kp already there if you do cms.
    Asking for specific classes same its already there if you do cms.
    Can you start your own group with what ever you want sure you can do the same thing in raids too.

    Thanks for giving examples of raid toxicity in Fractals, I would like ANet not to continue to push that toxicity further.

    No my examples was what people call toxicity and really is not, it was there in dungeons and is present in fractal.

    Make your own teams and do the content dont start complaining that its to hard adapt and overcome the challenge.
    Edit
    And anet aint pushing anything players find the path of least resistance and want to continue to play that way.
    Btw what toxicity are you talking about that are not in dungeons or fractals already?

  • phantom.1675phantom.1675 Member ✭✭

    @runeblade.7514 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @runeblade.7514 said:
    No because I don't want raid toxicity to go into Fractals and Dungeon.

    What raid toxicity?
    Asking for kp already there if you do cms.
    Asking for specific classes same its already there if you do cms.
    Can you start your own group with what ever you want sure you can do the same thing in raids too.

    Thanks for giving examples of raid toxicity in Fractals, I would like ANet not to continue to push that toxicity further.

    That's not toxic, they are playing the way they want. It just so happens that doesn't align with how you want to play, which is fine, but calling them toxic is the actual toxicity.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 22, 2019

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @runeblade.7514 said:
    No because I don't want raid toxicity to go into Fractals and Dungeon.

    You mean players wanting those with similar experience in groups that they created is toxic behavior? You’re going to find this in raids and it certainly was present in dungeons when more players ran them.

    True. What this thread wants however is to make the groups that do not play this way have significantly decreased chances of succeeding, thus indirectly promoting one set of behaviour over the other. And that is something i'd rather not see (or at least see more of it, because it is already happening in fractals, and it made the "fractal experience" so much worse).

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • kasoki.5180kasoki.5180 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 22, 2019

    @Aavataris.5720 said:
    Currently, entering Dungeons or Fractals is a simple procedure (always wining), and putting 10 together for Raids is complicated.

    Do a hard quest for 5 (apart from the current ones) in that you DO NOT ALWAYS WIN, but where we have to work hard and put together a good team (tank, support healer, dps, explosive damage & varied support).


    P.D.: The problem with Fractals T4 + challenge mode:

    • You do not require a well-armed team, only very strong.
    • It is not available to everyone, only for those who have high AR.

    The idea is that it is a real challenge, and that motivates all to look for fellow specialists in his/her area (tank, dps, healer, etc). Make it a real quest, with real partners :smile:

    Tank will never be a real thing in fractals in this game. In "standard model" tanks role is to focus attacks of enemies and prevent allies from getting attacked. In a game where everything is pulsing AoE, tanks can't have that "traditional" role as your allies are going to be damaged regardless of what you do.

    Other roles that you have mentioned exist and are almost always used in T4 and CMs.

    T4 LFGs almost always specify what role or class they are looking for

  • serialkicker.5274serialkicker.5274 Member ✭✭✭

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @runeblade.7514 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @runeblade.7514 said:
    No because I don't want raid toxicity to go into Fractals and Dungeon.

    What raid toxicity?
    Asking for kp already there if you do cms.
    Asking for specific classes same its already there if you do cms.
    Can you start your own group with what ever you want sure you can do the same thing in raids too.

    Thanks for giving examples of raid toxicity in Fractals, I would like ANet not to continue to push that toxicity further.

    No my examples was what people call toxicity and really is not, it was there in dungeons and is present in fractal.

    Make your own teams and do the content dont start complaining that its to hard adapt and overcome the challenge.
    Edit
    And anet aint pushing anything players find the path of least resistance and want to continue to play that way.
    Btw what toxicity are you talking about that are not in dungeons or fractals already?

    If only you knew how many people can't read LFGs or choose to absolutely ignore them...
    People snatch a meta build from a website and think they are suddenly hot shots and know how to play the game.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @serialkicker.5274 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @runeblade.7514 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @runeblade.7514 said:
    No because I don't want raid toxicity to go into Fractals and Dungeon.

    What raid toxicity?
    Asking for kp already there if you do cms.
    Asking for specific classes same its already there if you do cms.
    Can you start your own group with what ever you want sure you can do the same thing in raids too.

    Thanks for giving examples of raid toxicity in Fractals, I would like ANet not to continue to push that toxicity further.

    No my examples was what people call toxicity and really is not, it was there in dungeons and is present in fractal.

    Make your own teams and do the content dont start complaining that its to hard adapt and overcome the challenge.
    Edit
    And anet aint pushing anything players find the path of least resistance and want to continue to play that way.
    Btw what toxicity are you talking about that are not in dungeons or fractals already?

    If only you knew how many people can't read LFGs or choose to absolutely ignore them...
    People snatch a meta build from a website and think they are suddenly hot shots and know how to play the game.

    And thats got what to do with anything?
    They get kicked, then run to the forum calling people toxic.

  • serialkicker.5274serialkicker.5274 Member ✭✭✭

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @serialkicker.5274 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @runeblade.7514 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @runeblade.7514 said:
    No because I don't want raid toxicity to go into Fractals and Dungeon.

    What raid toxicity?
    Asking for kp already there if you do cms.
    Asking for specific classes same its already there if you do cms.
    Can you start your own group with what ever you want sure you can do the same thing in raids too.

    Thanks for giving examples of raid toxicity in Fractals, I would like ANet not to continue to push that toxicity further.

    No my examples was what people call toxicity and really is not, it was there in dungeons and is present in fractal.

    Make your own teams and do the content dont start complaining that its to hard adapt and overcome the challenge.
    Edit
    And anet aint pushing anything players find the path of least resistance and want to continue to play that way.
    Btw what toxicity are you talking about that are not in dungeons or fractals already?

    If only you knew how many people can't read LFGs or choose to absolutely ignore them...
    People snatch a meta build from a website and think they are suddenly hot shots and know how to play the game.

    And thats got what to do with anything?
    They get kicked, then run to the forum calling people toxic.

    I'm not defending them, just replying to your "make your own team, no problem" idea. I wish it was that simple, but I often have bad experience. Let me give you an example, what making one's own team means. (I joined many, many first timers to help them or make such groups when I do runs with my friend or guild).
    It is pretty good chance, that we would get someone who thinks we are all completely incompetent, since our description is not "p3 FAST". What they do? Well, they immediately start rushing ahead. Then you ask them why join no skip run and proceed to rush ahead? Or why join a group that says they are first timers and need a teacher, yet you proceed to rush ahead, leaving your whole party behind to die repeatedly. And, no, this is not uncommon. I see these people frequently. And if they have friend with them, they might even attempt to kick you.

    People think they are superior, just because they play the game the way some pro guild tells them how to. And they act that way in groups. Simply ignoring very clear description of LFG and then are ready to insult or trashtalk those who question them.

    So, making your own party is far from guaranteed success at getting the kind of run you wish for, especially since you can't do jack kitten about trolls and they can even kick you from your own party.

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭

    But those trolls or people not reading are not the norm. I barely get those people into my groups even if roles are specifically presented. Sometimes 2 people join at the same time but then either one leaves or he/she can fill the other role perfectly fine.
    People not reading LFGs is mostly present in dungeons because there are a lot of new players not familiar with abbreviations. In fractals it's very rare that people ignore your LFG and then it's more than usual that the other group members agree to your kick attempt.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • Aavataris.5720Aavataris.5720 Member ✭✭
    edited June 25, 2019

    After several days and comments that I had not seen I read several of the answers (with their likes) and I can only conclude:

    • The game does indeed need a difficulty worthwhile (to makes feel the need for teamwork).
    • But also needs to maintain diversity (some want something just casual, but that does not make them feel less).
    • The toxicity is becoming a growing problem (in forums and the game), and there is a need to moderate, before it gets worse.