Desert BL - Is it Time To Remove It? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Desert BL - Is it Time To Remove It?

Ni In.6578Ni In.6578 Member ✭✭✭

As we know, the Desert BL poll was sent out ~2 years ago to see whether or not to change Red BL from Alpine to Desert. Many of those who play WvW on a regular basis have had various complaints about Desert including size, tower location relative to spawn and garri, map exploits, and so forth.

The above issues are exacerbated by assigning Red to that BL. The server that came in last place likely does not have the defensive coverage to maintain such a large BL where towers cannot be easily defended from spawn (due to time it takes to get to the tower) or from garri (e.g. trebbing NWT/NET). This means that the server with likely the least coverage in the match up receives a BL that is harder to defend thus potentially causing them to decrease the PPT they receive over the match.

And I acknowledge some people do indeed enjoy Desert BL for their own reasons.

Is it time to remove Desert BL and replace it with Alpine BL? Would you keep Desert BL? Or would you keep Desert BL and rotate which color received the BL (knowing that it won't always be 'fair' as ANet can't ensure that a server wouldn't get it N weeks in a row)?

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Desert BL - Is it Time To Remove It? 167 votes

Keep Desert BL
58% 98 votes
Remove Desert BL and replace with Alpine BL
23% 40 votes
Rotate Desert BL Color
17% 29 votes
<1

Comments

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I wouldn't have a problem with desert being on a random bl instead of red, but I disagree that it is the most difficult to defend. It's true that the distances to cover present a challenge but it is also the least frequently attacked bl by far. I never leave home bl so this is one of the very few areas of the mode where I feel like I can speak with some authority :p

  • Ni In.6578Ni In.6578 Member ✭✭✭

    In T2 - T4 NA, Red BL is where you go for free keep caps as green or blue. It's simply not defended.

    [VII] Desert Spectre - Declared Best NA Guild by Grimaldi
    Crystal Desert Consul Member and President of Scrubs; declared most toxic server NA by Z E Y
    [VII] wants fights! Please bring your pug rangers for UD progress.

  • Whiteout.1975Whiteout.1975 Member ✭✭✭

    I don't see WvW being competitive enough to worry about it. So I could care less about less about PPT overall, but only to the point of it helping determine a match (sometimes). Give it to the Server/Team with the most consecutive win's. While also considering the difference in tiers... If it's too hard for people handle. Seems like it would be more fair that way I guess... Don't really care though.

    If WvW was more competitive, then I would probably hold a stronger attitude around this like the OP.

    I can however agree with @coro.3176. I'll also add that I like the taller objective walls... like towers have there in general. This leave's some more room to breath on walls if a zerg/group is bombing you. Talking more in the case of being heavily outmanned personally. Otherwise... Let's go!
    Also, PvE bosses I don't mind... I like that they feel harder personally, but to each their own :+1:

    Anyways, in my experience... Before any real problems surfaced back when the borderland first came out. I found it rather that people were just upset that they had to learn a new map more than anything else... And so I believe that is at the Core of the "DBL Hate Train" in general. Before any real valid issue's came into play :p

  • I actually like the aesthetic of the desert BL...But something is just wrong with the way the map was made, it drops the frames on my computer to unplayable levels...with a three way 200 player zerg bananaza going on, i simply can not play.

    They need to optimize this map so that it's not so laggy..

  • hunkamania.7561hunkamania.7561 Member ✭✭✭

    It's bad and it's unfair that only one server aka the red server aka the weakest server gets it. Easiest map to k train cause no1 plays on it

    Ferguson's Crossing Server Leader

    WVW LEADER

    VR

  • Kovu.7560Kovu.7560 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 10, 2019

    @Ni In.6578 said:
    In T2 - T4 NA, Red BL is where you go for free keep caps as green or blue. It's simply not defended.

    And in T1 green and blue can't farm the map as well because green already has half of the objectives all day and defends them.
    Buuut that's an issue with population, the map itself doesn't bother me too much. Especially now that mounts are around.

    ~ Kovu

    Ranger main before it was viable.
    Fort Aspenwood.

  • neven.3785neven.3785 Member ✭✭✭

    Keep desert BL and make all keep and tower lords as annoying or as inconsequential as the originals. Reducing player caps across the board is a better change than removing content that has been reworked several times to improve player experience. Anet can't do much when it's a meme to groan about desert BL. Lots of those groaning still see it unchanged from its original state, which it was indeed horrible. Now it's not so bad. Would much rather see another biome map than all alpine again, or even an alpine map removed and EBG belonging to red, and desert to green.

  • Quarktastic.1027Quarktastic.1027 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ni In.6578 said:
    In T2 - T4 NA, Red BL is where you go for free keep caps as green or blue. It's simply not defended.

    Somebody better go tell Yaks Bend then.

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ni In.6578 said:
    As we know, the Desert BL poll was sent out ~2 years ago to see whether or not to change Red BL from Alpine to Desert. Many of those who play WvW on a regular basis have had various complaints about Desert including size, tower location relative to spawn and garri, map exploits, and so forth.

    The above issues are exacerbated by assigning Red to that BL. The server that came in last place likely does not have the defensive coverage to maintain such a large BL where towers cannot be easily defended from spawn (due to time it takes to get to the tower) or from garri (e.g. trebbing NWT/NET). This means that the server with likely the least coverage in the match up receives a BL that is harder to defend thus potentially causing them to decrease the PPT they receive over the match.

    And I acknowledge some people do indeed enjoy Desert BL for their own reasons.

    Is it time to remove Desert BL and replace it with Alpine BL? Would you keep Desert BL? Or would you keep Desert BL and rotate which color received the BL (knowing that it won't always be 'fair' as ANet can't ensure that a server wouldn't get it N weeks in a row)?

    desert isnt bad. i was immature then. its a great map, now that we got mounts.

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • @Ni In.6578 said:
    Many of those who play WvW on a regular basis have had various complaints

    Surprising!

  • crazyhusky.2985crazyhusky.2985 Member ✭✭✭

    I say Rotate it,
    Make Green BL be in the desert BL as its the hardest to defend. Give Red the Alpine BL.
    Right now If you go up a tier then you're stuck with the worst map which means you don't stand a chance better servers.
    Greens would be a server coming down a tier, ( or remaining in if tier 1) which would give a challenge to them but also allow other teams have a chance.

  • Pterikdactyl.7630Pterikdactyl.7630 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I don't hate the map itself (especially with mounts), I just hate how dead it generally is. Roaming can be enjoyable on it if there are actually people there. It would be nice if we got a new BL map that replaced one of the Alpines so each would be different.

  • Doug.4930Doug.4930 Member ✭✭

    The problem was, and remains to be that the desert BL has too much focus on pve. The mobs are more plentiful and too powerful. Some of the keep lords are just worse than awful to fight in. So remove all the random op pve mobs all over the place, lessen the amount of guards and how strong they are, and please please make the keep/tower lords the same as we have in alpine. Spent the other day fighting in the lords room of the Lava keep at the desert bl, and it was just terrible with the amount of CC that mob does. But apart from overkill pve, I actually enjoy playing in the desert bl, but until the pve is tonned down to the level of the alpine, I vote to remove it.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 11, 2019

    The problem atm for desert BL is that game lacks mechanics, mounts can help a bit tho.

    Mobs in desert BL aren’t that powerful wth...

    It’s the alpine and eb that are way to scrub friendly...

    Imo for what desert BL needs I think it’s to soon, let the alliance system arrive first.

    Maybe Eb and alpine need a new map as well.

  • Decado.9304Decado.9304 Member ✭✭

    If it can't be removed then I would change its allocation. It's given to the lowest ranking server of the tier however most non-national EU servers wont play on it or just don't have the numbers so certainly don't defend it, leaving it to be karma trained by green and blue virtually guarenteeing that red drops tier again.

    I would make Desert the Green border as I think that it would give the weakest server a better chance of staying up a tier and just to mix things up a bit, or just randomize it

  • Doug.4930Doug.4930 Member ✭✭
    edited June 11, 2019

    Mobs in desert BL aren’t that powerful wth...

    It’s the alpine and eb that are way to scrub friendly...

    Its open world pvp, I don't want mobs that can greatly impact a fight to be a factor. The mobs in alpine and EB are perfect because they stand as a way to stop solo players/smallgroups instantly capping objectives, but are weak enough as to not affect player vs player fighting. The lord in the lava keep for instance has a ridiculous amount of AOE crowd control which greatly impacts fights in the lords room.

    If I want to pve, I'd go and play pve. This is open world pvp not a dungeon. This was the reason everyone hated it in the first place, too much annoying pve.

    @Aeolus.3615 said:
    Maybe Eb and alpine need a new map as well.

    No god please no. I was onboard for new maps before the abomination that was the old desert BL came out. Please not again. Please.

  • Zephyra.4709Zephyra.4709 Member ✭✭✭

    Take a step back and imagine for one moment...

    Players: remove DBL plz give Alpine back
    ANet: yes we have replaced DBL with Tangled Depths

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zephyra.4709 said:
    Take a step back and imagine for one moment...

    Players: remove DBL plz give Alpine back
    ANet: yes we have replaced DBL with Tangled Depths

    Stop stealing my ideas!

    Also replace EB with Dragonfall and place every keep on top of a cliff.

  • Tiawal.2351Tiawal.2351 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ni In.6578 said:
    Is it time to remove Desert BL and replace it with Alpine BL? Would you keep Desert BL? Or would you keep Desert BL and rotate which color received the BL (knowing that it won't always be 'fair' as ANet can't ensure that a server wouldn't get it N weeks in a row)?

    This was asked many times, and both ArenaNet and an unknown percent (about half of those voting for any reasons) of players wanted to keep the Desert map.

    As it is now, Desert bl rarely helps the red team, because a large number of players don't like it and though the map was improved, there are still good reasons why to avoid it.

    The only solution seems to be keeping Desert as an extra map, while having 3 alpine maps as home borderlands. EB and the rest kept as well.

  • Warkind.6745Warkind.6745 Member ✭✭✭

    They should keep it so that every time I play on it I can be reminded not to let myself get hyped for WvW content releases.

    All is vain.

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 12, 2019

    When Anet last listened to the vocal group of the forum goers which is a minority of players they removed DBL just to find players showing up on the forums asking WTW!? We lost a lot of people due to staleness in WvW prior to new maps and for some posters it was due to not having new maps. We still face that today in having two ABLs. We need to get at least one replaced to keep things fresh and not lose more to that staleness of the same old same old.

    Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
    De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
    TheGrimm PoTBS/GW1/WAR/Rift/GW2/MWO/ESO/WoT/WoW/D2/HoTS/CU/AoC

  • Opal.9324Opal.9324 Member ✭✭✭

    I'd hate to see DBL removed. Now that there's a mount, it's the only map that doesn't feel too small to me. It would be nice if it weren't always red, though.

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    dont remove it. introduce a new one. =)

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • Kylden Ar.3724Kylden Ar.3724 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Wow, bet those poll results were not what OP expected.

    How many times we gotta tell you GRIND IS NOT CONTENT there ANet?

    Leader of Tyrian Adventure Corp [TACO], [RaW][TACO] Alliance, Kaineng.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 12, 2019

    @Doug.4930 said:

    Mobs in desert BL aren’t that powerful wth...

    It’s the alpine and eb that are way to scrub friendly...

    Its open world pvp, I don't want mobs that can greatly impact a fight to be a factor. The mobs in alpine and EB are perfect because they stand as a way to stop solo players/smallgroups instantly capping objectives, but are weak enough as to not affect player vs player fighting. The lord in the lava keep for instance has a ridiculous amount of AOE crowd control which greatly impacts fights in the lords room.

    If I want to pve, I'd go and play pve. This is open world pvp not a dungeon. This was the reason everyone hated it in the first place, too much annoying pve.

    @Aeolus.3615 said:
    Maybe Eb and alpine need a new map as well.

    No god please no. I was onboard for new maps before the abomination that was the old desert BL came out. Please not again. Please.

    I do agree with that as well, but if they changed the game a little bit, and given the right mechanics for decent wvw gameplay I think new maps could be done, but this is if only Anet knew to deploy mechanics that are jus aoe spam skills....
    If they had decent intentions of bringing decent gameplay and behavior ofc...

  • ariel.5038ariel.5038 Member ✭✭

    Desert BL is my favourite WvW map.

  • reddie.5861reddie.5861 Member ✭✭✭

    if ur on red in EU vs proper fight servers ur ppt master..
    no1 wants to go red BL its like a free ticket to next tier..

  • Celsith.2753Celsith.2753 Member ✭✭✭

    I'd be more willing to go to this map if it didnt drop my framerate so much and make me lag out. I see all the sparkles in the air in the middle area and wonder if removing that garbage would help.
    It'd still be my least favourite map and if more people feel the same way it might be generally helpful to make green have it instead of red. Moving up a tier to be awarded with no one being willing to defend really doesn't seem appealing.

    Incidentally, regardless of a vote, player activity records of each map show just how unfavoured it is.

    885k+ WvW kills
    Diamond No Life
    [HUNT] Predatory Instinct

  • desert bl is not a bad map.. what i like about it is the number of high terrains available there, which can make possible some clutch kills (like guardian hammer golfing, or even just pushing or throwing away (warrior skill with boots)).

    what they need to do is to make a new bl map so the 3 bls will be distinct.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 14, 2019

    @Kylden Ar.3724 said:
    Wow, bet those poll results were not what OP expected.

    Are they ever?

    Its like...

    "The community hate DBL, no one wants it!" poll shows a majority wants it
    "Mounts have killed the game, revert!" poll show a majority want to keep it
    "Stealth ruins everything!" poll show a majority think its fine
    "Mirage OP!" necro voted most common roamer

  • Mokk.2397Mokk.2397 Member ✭✭✭

    I've always liked desert border land even before the changes.I would like to see other borderlands on rotation.Jungle borderland ,Swamp borderland and an underworld borderland for example. Maybe some weird ones like a dessert borderland with ginger bread houses and giant ice cream cones and parfaits.Mix it up for more variety.

  • Etterwyn.5263Etterwyn.5263 Member ✭✭✭

    I demand a SAB borderland!

    WvW™ - where you find more Red Rings of Death than an Xbox repair facility.

  • LaGranse.8652LaGranse.8652 Member ✭✭✭

    I prefer the mobs and lord of tower and keeps in desert borderland compared to alpine boarder. The lords have flavor to them rather than just being a punching bag with a big hp bar. The guards of the different towers and keeps are different and themed after said structure which i find is a nice touch.

    Seen some complains about the the fire keep lord in this thread however I've never really had too much trouble with it, a knockdown or fear from time to time however it does not compare to the impassable circle of the air keep lord which I think could need some tweaking.

  • Wisty.4135Wisty.4135 Member ✭✭

    I don't mind DBL. I actually even enjoy it slightly more compared to alpine. I'd love if there was a fourth BL map as well to ensure even - could you imagine a jungle map?...

  • kash.9213kash.9213 Member ✭✭✭

    I like desert map and don't find it any more difficult to get to our stuff timely than the alpine maps. My main complaint about all of the maps apart from pathing issues with my porting skills and that much of the maps aren't used because WvW is more of a large arena match than open world is that we don't get the awesome expansion music.

    Northern Shiverpeaks [EL]

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The donut design is bad and wastes my time as it increases travel times, but besides that the map is great.

    Alpine is outdated in terms of map-design and graphics qualty. When I enter a borderland, it's the desert 9 out of 10 times.

  • Teon.5168Teon.5168 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 15, 2019

    @Kylden Ar.3724 said:
    Wow, bet those poll results were not what OP expected.

    Just one of those forum screamers that is still po'ed with the originally devastating poll that allowed Desert BL to become part of wvw. They were so sure that the poll would go overwhelmingly in their favor, then mad as hell when they were proven completely wrong.

    This is probably just one of those people that is still determined that they were correct back then.

    And then they do a poll and are laughingly proven wrong, yet again.

    It's actually kind of entertaining, in a weird sort of way. ;)

    Plus, all of the original complaints with Desert BL are now completely irrelevant, since there are mounts out there, now.

  • Just sink Bay and Hills on another map so they're underwater and call it good.

  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Idk how many times people who want DBL removed just reconfirm that it is staying with their polls lol.

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • Lets hope they dont make a jungle boarderland

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I don't play WvW much but when I do it's usually on DBL.

    It's my personal favorite map but that's likely down to it just being newer and different.
    Back in the day I had to do WvW for map completion and one of the things I always despised with a passion was the fact that there were 3 identical maps that all had to be completed.
    By the time WvW was taken away from World completion requirement i'd already come to utterly hate the original 3 WvW maps with a passion.
    Even today I can't play on them long before I just start to feel sick and tired of their scenery and just general bland uglliness..

    I know it seems harsh but I just don't like them lol
    Getting DBL was a real breath of fresh air for me, far more attractive map with far more interesting elements to it.
    I expect more familiar WvW players can argue many good points and criticisms as to why they think it's a bad map and hell they're probably right about it being a bad map lol
    But they still have 3 other maps to play on, 2 of which are identical so if they don't like DBL they can just avoid it at the end of the day.
    Personally I think we should get rid of another of the duplicate maps and replace it again with an entirely new map giving WvW a nice rounded out 4 different maps total and rotate the colours.

    That's just my opinion though.

  • SlateSloan.3654SlateSloan.3654 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 15, 2019

    desert is nice. i would have just dropped the oasis in the middle and put either another keep there or a huge cap spot without walls at all and the boss mechanics are unnecessary.

  • We've been fighting within SAME MAP for 6 YEARS. EBG, Alpine BL are kinda boring for me. We need new strategy in wvw anyway.

  • bluberblasen.9684bluberblasen.9684 Member ✭✭✭

    its ugly
    its big
    its too much pve
    its too high ( i hate ALL hearth of thorns maps ) i hate when you can fallen down.
    i hate dusty maps ( except de_dust and de_dust2 and de_mirage )

  • Doug.4930Doug.4930 Member ✭✭

    @LaGranse.8652 said:
    I prefer the mobs and lord of tower and keeps in desert borderland compared to alpine boarder. The lords have flavor to them rather than just being a punching bag with a big hp bar. The guards of the different towers and keeps are different and themed after said structure which i find is a nice touch.

    Seen some complains about the the fire keep lord in this thread however I've never really had too much trouble with it, a knockdown or fear from time to time however it does not compare to the impassable circle of the air keep lord which I think could need some tweaking.

    In a zerg fight it would be fine, or when Its just the mob alone its fine.
    But when 5 players are fighting another 5 players, and one group is getting constantly fear AOE'd every 15 seconds it makes a WORLD of difference. I've won 5v10 in that lords room solely because of that mob, and how it constantly cc'd the enemy and forced them to use stun breakers to stay alive, thus putting them on cool down.
    I'd rather a more fair and competitive environment over "flavor" any day.
    But I actually do enjoy roaming the desert bl. The pve mobs being too strong is really my only grip with the map now.

  • Feothyr.6072Feothyr.6072 Member ✭✭

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    I expect more familiar WvW players can argue many good points and criticisms as to why they think it's a bad map and hell they're probably right about it being a bad map lol

    Sadly, for a lot of them anything that's not an empty open field is a bad map.

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    Personally I think we should get rid of another of the duplicate maps and replace it again with an entirely new map giving WvW a nice rounded out 4 different maps total and rotate the colours.

    I agree. Having four distinct maps with their own specific flavours would be great and it would add a little bit of variety to WvW, although it's clearly time for an overhaul of the Alpine and EBG map.

  • Aguna.3497Aguna.3497 Member ✭✭

    Keep desertBL. Been playing since launch, and alpine is boring. Maybe they should make a new map for blue and green should stay alpine.

  • joneirikb.7506joneirikb.7506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Still want to see them doing slight changes to both the BL maps, and make them into proper BG (BattleGround) maps, and drop the entire "homeBL" system.

    Elrik Noj (Norn Guardian, Kaineng [SIN][Owls])
    "Understanding is a three edged sword: your side, their side, and the truth." - J. Michael Straczynski
    Currently playing: Final Fantasy 14, Dragon's Dogma

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