PvP Mesmer Out of META — Guild Wars 2 Forums

PvP Mesmer Out of META

Jack.8124Jack.8124 Member ✭✭

According to metabattle, mesmer doesn't appear in the first 19 builds for pvp (obviusly, not in meta section and not in great section)
Mesmer is completely out of meta, we think we need a big rebalance for mesmer...
DPS mesmer is not able to play in high level
Condi mesmer doesn't do damage anymore
Bunker mesmer is completely getting oneshots by dual revenants
Healing mesmer is a joke
Boon generation mesmer doesn't exist
The result... Mesmer is completely out of everything for pvp...

Sorry for my poor English guys, I hope you understand it..

<13

Comments

  • It's not just you who think so.

  • Vieux P.1238Vieux P.1238 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 11, 2019

    Mesmers will be good when the devs nerf it to the point when it pops & die like it's clone. It's coming ...
    I got to admit.. it is close to next to useless vs most classes.

    Winter Nerf is coming!

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 11, 2019

    @Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:
    It would help if the currently power-crept stuff like Holo, SB, Rev, SLB, Scrapper, and maybe Scourge and FB were toned down. I would prefer reverse-power-creeping over more power-creeping as a means to level the playing field.

    ^^^^^ Honestly people could stand to learn a thing or two from this.

    Rather than giving Mesmer a superbuff and putting it back into a state where people will complain about it, perhaps the focus should be on bringing all the other side-noders down with it to the level known as balanced.

    That would require nerfing condition cleanses that have been power crept since Path of Fire across most classes. And I genuinely think a large majority of players do not want to have to think about condition damage as a damage archetype they need to be prepared for. There are multiple builds just from their trait selection right now that are just hard immune to condition damage as an archetype. There aren't builds are nigh invulnerable to power damage, there shouldn't be builds that invulnerable to condition damage.

    Right now Power Greatsword and mantras are the only viable builds for mesmer, and those have always been more toxic from a design perspective than Condi Mirage was.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • Zawn.9647Zawn.9647 Member ✭✭✭

    @Xstein.2187 said:
    I don't even care about overall balance.
    FIRST they need to:

    1. Fix the blatant biasses present in the game. God, they are supposed to be professionals
      https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/74289/anets-favourite-child/p1
      .
    2. Bring "Trait Choice" back to the mesmer trait lines.
      Right now there are obvious 'trait winners' and obvious 'dead traits' as well. You literally don't even need to make trait decisions when playing a mesmer anymore. They are basically made for you as long as you know how to read what the traits do.
      This wasn't always the case.
      .
    3. Make mesmer fun to play again.
      .
    4. Undo core mesmer trait nerfs since core mesmer was never meta since before HoT, make the correct balancing decisions that should have been made a long time ago, and bring all the elites in the game in line with the cores.
      .
    5. Quite listening to streamers who don't know what they are talking about or present themselves as knowing more about a class then they do.
      .
    6. Bring back the people you banned or quite who wouldn't have been banned or quite if mesmer was handled correctly in the past to begin with.
      .
    7. Quite making broken promises or if you do so, apologize.
      "Chronomancy is the only specialization allowed access to this powerful effect" my butt.

    Yeah the problem with #3 is that it makes unfun for everyone else
    And about #5 you can listen from Tournament of Legends champions as well... Sindrener also thinks mesmers were ridiculous

  • Xstein.2187Xstein.2187 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 11, 2019

    @Zawn.9647 said:

    @Xstein.2187 said:
    I don't even care about overall balance.
    FIRST they need to:

    1. Fix the blatant biasses present in the game. God, they are supposed to be professionals
      https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/74289/anets-favourite-child/p1
      .
    2. Bring "Trait Choice" back to the mesmer trait lines.
      Right now there are obvious 'trait winners' and obvious 'dead traits' as well. You literally don't even need to make trait decisions when playing a mesmer anymore. They are basically made for you as long as you know how to read what the traits do.
      This wasn't always the case.
      .
    3. Make mesmer fun to play again.
      .
    4. Undo core mesmer trait nerfs since core mesmer was never meta since before HoT, make the correct balancing decisions that should have been made a long time ago, and bring all the elites in the game in line with the cores.
      .
    5. Quite listening to streamers who don't know what they are talking about or present themselves as knowing more about a class then they do.
      .
    6. Bring back the people you banned or quite who wouldn't have been banned or quite if mesmer was handled correctly in the past to begin with.
      .
    7. Quite making broken promises or if you do so, apologize.
      "Chronomancy is the only specialization allowed access to this powerful effect" my butt.

    Yeah the problem with #3 is that it makes unfun for everyone else
    And about #5 you can listen from Tournament of Legends champions as well... Sindrener also thinks mesmers were ridiculous

    1. I'm not saying that it wasn't unfun to fight against or still isn't unfun to fight against
    I'm just saying right now mesmer (not just mirage) is not fun to play and probably STILL isn't fun to fight against as well. Just because a class is unfun to fight against does not automatically mean its fun to play or vice versa, these are exclusive issues.. So no, that is not a problem with #3.

    1. I didn't say that all streamers were incorrect. Steamers are free to make whatever comments they want, balancing decisions just shouldn't be made based on that
      (unless the streamer uses data-but then it should be based on the data presented). To do so without using data would be an appeal to authority logical fallacy. It doesn't mean such authority is always wrong. However, that doesn't mean using authority for decisions on its own accord or just because they said something isn't fallacious reasoning.
  • People stream this game?

  • TorQ.7041TorQ.7041 Member ✭✭✭

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @Jack.8124 said:

    @Eddbopkins.2630 said:
    Omg ur outa of meta for the 1st time in 7 years? Cant play this game no more....#sarcasm....how about u main a ele then u have the right to complain about being out of meta.

    I'm sad about ele too, but ATM mesmer is completely out of scene.. I hope anet balance ele too... This is not a counter balance post...

    For the most part Mesmer is so called "out of meta" because of poor mind state of most of its players. Mesmer has been broken for so so so long that most of them are no longer able to tell the difference between Broken OP and Normal, so now when its not pathetic ez mode they think it is not viable, while the truth is it is perfectly viable (some of its Meta builds at least) just no longer broken.

    Agreed. Tbh mesmer is only out of "meta" because of things like scrapper. Condi mes will absolutely wreck warrior and can do fair against rifle holo.

    The passive Condi dmg is still absolutely incredible. If you don't have consistent cleansing. You will be forced to leave node. But even then it's still viable as a Condi dps. If you watch ATs there are mesmers that just go. Stack Condi on and leave.

    It's not god like. Unlike before but it's absolutely playable.

  • TorQ.7041TorQ.7041 Member ✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:
    It would help if the currently power-crept stuff like Holo, SB, Rev, SLB, Scrapper, and maybe Scourge and FB were toned down. I would prefer reverse-power-creeping over more power-creeping as a means to level the playing field.

    ^^^^^ Honestly people could stand to learn a thing or two from this.

    Rather than giving Mesmer a superbuff and putting it back into a state where people will complain about it, perhaps the focus should be on bringing all the other side-noders down with it to the level known as balanced.

    That would require nerfing condition cleanses that have been power crept since Path of Fire across most classes. And I genuinely think a large majority of players do not want to have to think about condition damage as a damage archetype they need to be prepared for. There are multiple builds just from their trait selection right now that are just hard immune to condition damage as an archetype. There aren't builds are nigh invulnerable to power damage, there shouldn't be builds that invulnerable to condition damage.

    Right now Power Greatsword and mantras are the only viable builds for mesmer, and those have always been more toxic from a design perspective than Condi Mirage was.

    I don't have a problem with Condi dmg. If it hits me and I get damaged but only it's over time,Ok that's fair. But it's rather every clone does condi. It's to the point where even if I can dodge all the key skills I would still get Condi on me. Confusion also prevents me from doing anything because it would make me kill myself. So there are 2 options still and do nothing and die or leave.

    I have absolutely no problem with power mirage because it takes skill. Power mirage clones don't do much passive damage even with split surge. You can see what he's going to mirror blade and dodge. It actually takes skill. Learning where the mirage is on the map and dodging his one shot takes skill, at th same time learning position to use a 1 shot takes skill. 1 shot mirage is absolutely not toxic. It's basically on the other spectrum of skill. Being power mes is only good in the hands of some one skilled.

    Spawning clones then passively using invur,stealth, port. And wait for your opponent to die from passive ticks from clones takes no skill. You can cycle through buttons to sustain for a long time.

    Condi mirage is can still be played only when u see that the other team doesn't have prot Holo or scrapper. It still has advantages over warrior and other classes that doesn't have consistent cleanse.

  • TorQ.7041TorQ.7041 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vagrant.7206 said:
    I still see mirages and chronos all the time in plat 1/2.

    Agreed. I see them all the time. I am forced to play scrapper to deal with it.

  • TorQ.7041TorQ.7041 Member ✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @Jack.8124 said:

    @Eddbopkins.2630 said:
    Omg ur outa of meta for the 1st time in 7 years? Cant play this game no more....#sarcasm....how about u main a ele then u have the right to complain about being out of meta.

    I'm sad about ele too, but ATM mesmer is completely out of scene.. I hope anet balance ele too... This is not a counter balance post...

    For the most part Mesmer is so called "out of meta" because of poor mind state of most of its players. Mesmer has been broken for so so so long that most of them are no longer able to tell the difference between Broken OP and Normal, so now when its not pathetic ez mode they think it is not viable, while the truth is it is perfectly viable (some of its Meta builds at least) just no longer broken.

    Agreed. Tbh mesmer is only out of "meta" because of things like scrapper. Condi mes will absolutely wreck warrior and can do fair against rifle holo.

    The passive Condi dmg is still absolutely incredible. If you don't have consistent cleansing. You will be forced to leave node. But even then it's still viable as a Condi dps. If you watch ATs there are mesmers that just go. Stack Condi on and leave.

    It's not god like. Unlike before but it's absolutely playable.

    Spellbreaker has always had the tools to 100% stall out a condition mirage, even post phantasm rework when a number of mesmer abilities were super charged. Tthe tools that allowed Spellbreakers to stall out a condition mirage's damage out put were never nerfed. Heck, they only got buffed. Shake It Off was power crept back in July 2018. Berserker Stance was changed in November 2017 and it was a horizontal change that reduced it's duration and it's cooldown. And with the Last Stand trait you came out tiny bit ahead.

    It's just the fact of the matter that Spellbreaker always had the tools to completely stall out condition mirage. Don't believe me? Go watch the Mist Challenger's tournament. All of the game's best players coming together to compete over a $2000 prize pool including Rank 55 Dragons and Team USA facing off in the finals.

    This tournament happened after the phantasm rework super charged a lot of mesmer capabilities. Every time one of the condition mesmers went up against one of the spellbreakers it resulted in a perpetual stall out. Are you really going to call Misha and Zeromis trash mesmers who don't know how to think about playing and weren't putting in effort?

    What changed was that Arenanet power crept the hell out of Physical Skills. Bull's Rush, Rampage in particular and the Peak Performance trait. Suddenly every Spellbreaker found out with Magebane Tether they could casually toss out 10k Arcing Slices and Whirlind Blades, 6k Damage Bull's Rushes. And it turns out being able to thoughtlessly two shot most builds after ramping up some might even before you go into Rampage is more effective against everything that isn't a condition mirage enough to make the worse match up against that particular build, especially when that build is largely dead now.

    Spellbreakers can stall out condition mirages even now. They just chose to not run the build that does so in favor of better match ups against everything else since nothing runs condition damage anymore.

    Yeah no. Watch shorts. Watch him destroy warriors in p3 quite quickly. Warrior has 2 cleanses that's it even with thether u don't get enough healing to out sustain condi. There's no way it can sustain enough to stall out Condi mesmer. U are seriously making kitten up about 10k arching slice. I am a p2 warrior n I face mesmer at that level. I can stall for Abit of time but I am forced to leave. When I see mesmer I am absolutely switching to engineer.

  • TorQ.7041TorQ.7041 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 11, 2019

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @Jack.8124 said:

    @Eddbopkins.2630 said:
    Omg ur outa of meta for the 1st time in 7 years? Cant play this game no more....#sarcasm....how about u main a ele then u have the right to complain about being out of meta.

    I'm sad about ele too, but ATM mesmer is completely out of scene.. I hope anet balance ele too... This is not a counter balance post...

    For the most part Mesmer is so called "out of meta" because of poor mind state of most of its players. Mesmer has been broken for so so so long that most of them are no longer able to tell the difference between Broken OP and Normal, so now when its not pathetic ez mode they think it is not viable, while the truth is it is perfectly viable (some of its Meta builds at least) just no longer broken.

    Agreed. Tbh mesmer is only out of "meta" because of things like scrapper. Condi mes will absolutely wreck warrior and can do fair against rifle holo.

    The passive Condi dmg is still absolutely incredible. If you don't have consistent cleansing. You will be forced to leave node. But even then it's still viable as a Condi dps. If you watch ATs there are mesmers that just go. Stack Condi on and leave.

    It's not god like. Unlike before but it's absolutely playable.

    Spellbreaker has always had the tools to 100% stall out a condition mirage, even post phantasm rework when a number of mesmer abilities were super charged. Tthe tools that allowed Spellbreakers to stall out a condition mirage's damage out put were never nerfed. Heck, they only got buffed. Shake It Off was power crept back in July 2018. Berserker Stance was changed in November 2017 and it was a horizontal change that reduced it's duration and it's cooldown. And with the Last Stand trait you came out tiny bit ahead.

    It's just the fact of the matter that Spellbreaker always had the tools to completely stall out condition mirage. Don't believe me? Go watch the Mist Challenger's tournament. All of the game's best players coming together to compete over a $2000 prize pool including Rank 55 Dragons and Team USA facing off in the finals.

    This tournament happened after the phantasm rework super charged a lot of mesmer capabilities. Every time one of the condition mesmers went up against one of the spellbreakers it resulted in a perpetual stall out. Are you really going to call Misha and Zeromis trash mesmers who don't know how to think about playing and weren't putting in effort?

    What changed was that Arenanet power crept the hell out of Physical Skills. Bull's Rush, Rampage in particular and the Peak Performance trait. Suddenly every Spellbreaker found out with Magebane Tether they could casually toss out 10k Arcing Slices and Whirlind Blades, 6k Damage Bull's Rushes. And it turns out being able to thoughtlessly two shot most builds after ramping up some might even before you go into Rampage is more effective against everything that isn't a condition mirage enough to make the worse match up against that particular build, especially when that build is largely dead now.

    Spellbreakers can stall out condition mirages even now. They just chose to not run the build that does so in favor of better match ups against everything else since nothing runs condition damage anymore.

    I don't have a problem with Condi dmg. If it hits me and I get damaged but only it's over time,Ok that's fair. But it's rather every clone does condi. It's to the point where even if I can dodge all the key skills I would still get Condi on me.

    If you dodge all the key skills against a power build you will still take power damage from minor sources, chip damage, and lower priority skills to avoid. The only exception is if you completely stunlock or global a player. Why should condition damage builds be restricted to only doing damage with their biggest skills and 0 damage from everything else in their kit?

    If a warrior is able to bullscharge you. You are doing something seriously wrong. With invur, staff 4, blink, jaunt, invis. There's no way u shld be burning everything so a warrior can bullscharge you for you to eat his hundred blades and whirling attack.

    You should be saving 1 movement skill always for that. Just like I save my sheild for till the very last second.

    On a side note. Yeah sure I can out sustain a mesmer. Only the poor lower teir mesmers at g2. Ones that burn everything so I can bullscharge them. Other than that no. On equal skill. Mesmer> warrior. And scrapper > mesmer. Warrior > scrapper

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 11, 2019

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @Jack.8124 said:

    @Eddbopkins.2630 said:
    Omg ur outa of meta for the 1st time in 7 years? Cant play this game no more....#sarcasm....how about u main a ele then u have the right to complain about being out of meta.

    I'm sad about ele too, but ATM mesmer is completely out of scene.. I hope anet balance ele too... This is not a counter balance post...

    For the most part Mesmer is so called "out of meta" because of poor mind state of most of its players. Mesmer has been broken for so so so long that most of them are no longer able to tell the difference between Broken OP and Normal, so now when its not pathetic ez mode they think it is not viable, while the truth is it is perfectly viable (some of its Meta builds at least) just no longer broken.

    Agreed. Tbh mesmer is only out of "meta" because of things like scrapper. Condi mes will absolutely wreck warrior and can do fair against rifle holo.

    The passive Condi dmg is still absolutely incredible. If you don't have consistent cleansing. You will be forced to leave node. But even then it's still viable as a Condi dps. If you watch ATs there are mesmers that just go. Stack Condi on and leave.

    It's not god like. Unlike before but it's absolutely playable.

    Spellbreaker has always had the tools to 100% stall out a condition mirage, even post phantasm rework when a number of mesmer abilities were super charged. Tthe tools that allowed Spellbreakers to stall out a condition mirage's damage out put were never nerfed. Heck, they only got buffed. Shake It Off was power crept back in July 2018. Berserker Stance was changed in November 2017 and it was a horizontal change that reduced it's duration and it's cooldown. And with the Last Stand trait you came out tiny bit ahead.

    It's just the fact of the matter that Spellbreaker always had the tools to completely stall out condition mirage. Don't believe me? Go watch the Mist Challenger's tournament. All of the game's best players coming together to compete over a $2000 prize pool including Rank 55 Dragons and Team USA facing off in the finals.

    This tournament happened after the phantasm rework super charged a lot of mesmer capabilities. Every time one of the condition mesmers went up against one of the spellbreakers it resulted in a perpetual stall out. Are you really going to call Misha and Zeromis trash mesmers who don't know how to think about playing and weren't putting in effort?

    What changed was that Arenanet power crept the hell out of Physical Skills. Bull's Rush, Rampage in particular and the Peak Performance trait. Suddenly every Spellbreaker found out with Magebane Tether they could casually toss out 10k Arcing Slices and Whirlind Blades, 6k Damage Bull's Rushes. And it turns out being able to thoughtlessly two shot most builds after ramping up some might even before you go into Rampage is more effective against everything that isn't a condition mirage enough to make the worse match up against that particular build, especially when that build is largely dead now.

    Spellbreakers can stall out condition mirages even now. They just chose to not run the build that does so in favor of better match ups against everything else since nothing runs condition damage anymore.

    Yeah no. Watch shorts. Watch him destroy warriors in p3 quite quickly. Warrior has 2 cleanses that's it even with thether u don't get enough healing to out sustain condi. There's no way it can sustain enough to stall out Condi mesmer. U are seriously making kitten up about 10k arching slice.

    Those warriors are strength warriors who aren't running the traits and utiliities they have that easily deal with condition mirage because it's better for them that they don't because no one runs condition damage anymore.

    I am a p2 warrior n I face mesmer at that level. I can stall for Abit of time but I am forced to leave.

    I can see the leaderboard right now. You aren't.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • TorQ.7041TorQ.7041 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 11, 2019

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @Jack.8124 said:

    @Eddbopkins.2630 said:
    Omg ur outa of meta for the 1st time in 7 years? Cant play this game no more....#sarcasm....how about u main a ele then u have the right to complain about being out of meta.

    I'm sad about ele too, but ATM mesmer is completely out of scene.. I hope anet balance ele too... This is not a counter balance post...

    For the most part Mesmer is so called "out of meta" because of poor mind state of most of its players. Mesmer has been broken for so so so long that most of them are no longer able to tell the difference between Broken OP and Normal, so now when its not pathetic ez mode they think it is not viable, while the truth is it is perfectly viable (some of its Meta builds at least) just no longer broken.

    Agreed. Tbh mesmer is only out of "meta" because of things like scrapper. Condi mes will absolutely wreck warrior and can do fair against rifle holo.

    The passive Condi dmg is still absolutely incredible. If you don't have consistent cleansing. You will be forced to leave node. But even then it's still viable as a Condi dps. If you watch ATs there are mesmers that just go. Stack Condi on and leave.

    It's not god like. Unlike before but it's absolutely playable.

    Spellbreaker has always had the tools to 100% stall out a condition mirage, even post phantasm rework when a number of mesmer abilities were super charged. Tthe tools that allowed Spellbreakers to stall out a condition mirage's damage out put were never nerfed. Heck, they only got buffed. Shake It Off was power crept back in July 2018. Berserker Stance was changed in November 2017 and it was a horizontal change that reduced it's duration and it's cooldown. And with the Last Stand trait you came out tiny bit ahead.

    It's just the fact of the matter that Spellbreaker always had the tools to completely stall out condition mirage. Don't believe me? Go watch the Mist Challenger's tournament. All of the game's best players coming together to compete over a $2000 prize pool including Rank 55 Dragons and Team USA facing off in the finals.

    This tournament happened after the phantasm rework super charged a lot of mesmer capabilities. Every time one of the condition mesmers went up against one of the spellbreakers it resulted in a perpetual stall out. Are you really going to call Misha and Zeromis trash mesmers who don't know how to think about playing and weren't putting in effort?

    What changed was that Arenanet power crept the hell out of Physical Skills. Bull's Rush, Rampage in particular and the Peak Performance trait. Suddenly every Spellbreaker found out with Magebane Tether they could casually toss out 10k Arcing Slices and Whirlind Blades, 6k Damage Bull's Rushes. And it turns out being able to thoughtlessly two shot most builds after ramping up some might even before you go into Rampage is more effective against everything that isn't a condition mirage enough to make the worse match up against that particular build, especially when that build is largely dead now.

    Spellbreakers can stall out condition mirages even now. They just chose to not run the build that does so in favor of better match ups against everything else since nothing runs condition damage anymore.

    Yeah no. Watch shorts. Watch him destroy warriors in p3 quite quickly. Warrior has 2 cleanses that's it even with thether u don't get enough healing to out sustain condi. There's no way it can sustain enough to stall out Condi mesmer. U are seriously making kitten up about 10k arching slice.

    Those warriors are strength warriors who aren't running the traits and utiliities they have that easily deal with condition mirage because it's better for them that they don't because no one runs condition damage anymore.

    I am a p2 warrior n I face mesmer at that level. I can stall for Abit of time but I am forced to leave.

    I can see the leaderboard right now. You aren't.

    Go check. Around rank 208. Sure I missed p2 by like 3 games this season.boo hoo

    I am gonna go home n frigging screen shot the leaderboard.

  • TorQ.7041TorQ.7041 Member ✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @Jack.8124 said:

    @Eddbopkins.2630 said:
    Omg ur outa of meta for the 1st time in 7 years? Cant play this game no more....#sarcasm....how about u main a ele then u have the right to complain about being out of meta.

    I'm sad about ele too, but ATM mesmer is completely out of scene.. I hope anet balance ele too... This is not a counter balance post...

    For the most part Mesmer is so called "out of meta" because of poor mind state of most of its players. Mesmer has been broken for so so so long that most of them are no longer able to tell the difference between Broken OP and Normal, so now when its not pathetic ez mode they think it is not viable, while the truth is it is perfectly viable (some of its Meta builds at least) just no longer broken.

    Agreed. Tbh mesmer is only out of "meta" because of things like scrapper. Condi mes will absolutely wreck warrior and can do fair against rifle holo.

    The passive Condi dmg is still absolutely incredible. If you don't have consistent cleansing. You will be forced to leave node. But even then it's still viable as a Condi dps. If you watch ATs there are mesmers that just go. Stack Condi on and leave.

    It's not god like. Unlike before but it's absolutely playable.

    Spellbreaker has always had the tools to 100% stall out a condition mirage, even post phantasm rework when a number of mesmer abilities were super charged. Tthe tools that allowed Spellbreakers to stall out a condition mirage's damage out put were never nerfed. Heck, they only got buffed. Shake It Off was power crept back in July 2018. Berserker Stance was changed in November 2017 and it was a horizontal change that reduced it's duration and it's cooldown. And with the Last Stand trait you came out tiny bit ahead.

    It's just the fact of the matter that Spellbreaker always had the tools to completely stall out condition mirage. Don't believe me? Go watch the Mist Challenger's tournament. All of the game's best players coming together to compete over a $2000 prize pool including Rank 55 Dragons and Team USA facing off in the finals.

    This tournament happened after the phantasm rework super charged a lot of mesmer capabilities. Every time one of the condition mesmers went up against one of the spellbreakers it resulted in a perpetual stall out. Are you really going to call Misha and Zeromis trash mesmers who don't know how to think about playing and weren't putting in effort?

    What changed was that Arenanet power crept the hell out of Physical Skills. Bull's Rush, Rampage in particular and the Peak Performance trait. Suddenly every Spellbreaker found out with Magebane Tether they could casually toss out 10k Arcing Slices and Whirlind Blades, 6k Damage Bull's Rushes. And it turns out being able to thoughtlessly two shot most builds after ramping up some might even before you go into Rampage is more effective against everything that isn't a condition mirage enough to make the worse match up against that particular build, especially when that build is largely dead now.

    Spellbreakers can stall out condition mirages even now. They just chose to not run the build that does so in favor of better match ups against everything else since nothing runs condition damage anymore.

    Yeah no. Watch shorts. Watch him destroy warriors in p3 quite quickly. Warrior has 2 cleanses that's it even with thether u don't get enough healing to out sustain condi. There's no way it can sustain enough to stall out Condi mesmer. U are seriously making kitten up about 10k arching slice.

    Those warriors are strength warriors who aren't running the traits and utiliities they have that easily deal with condition mirage because it's better for them that they don't because no one runs condition damage anymore.

    I am a p2 warrior n I face mesmer at that level. I can stall for Abit of time but I am forced to leave.

    I can see the leaderboard right now. You aren't.

    Then you are obviously just making kitten up then. How can a warrior not run strength traits hit u for 10k?

  • TorQ.7041TorQ.7041 Member ✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @Jack.8124 said:

    @Eddbopkins.2630 said:
    Omg ur outa of meta for the 1st time in 7 years? Cant play this game no more....#sarcasm....how about u main a ele then u have the right to complain about being out of meta.

    I'm sad about ele too, but ATM mesmer is completely out of scene.. I hope anet balance ele too... This is not a counter balance post...

    For the most part Mesmer is so called "out of meta" because of poor mind state of most of its players. Mesmer has been broken for so so so long that most of them are no longer able to tell the difference between Broken OP and Normal, so now when its not pathetic ez mode they think it is not viable, while the truth is it is perfectly viable (some of its Meta builds at least) just no longer broken.

    Agreed. Tbh mesmer is only out of "meta" because of things like scrapper. Condi mes will absolutely wreck warrior and can do fair against rifle holo.

    The passive Condi dmg is still absolutely incredible. If you don't have consistent cleansing. You will be forced to leave node. But even then it's still viable as a Condi dps. If you watch ATs there are mesmers that just go. Stack Condi on and leave.

    It's not god like. Unlike before but it's absolutely playable.

    Spellbreaker has always had the tools to 100% stall out a condition mirage, even post phantasm rework when a number of mesmer abilities were super charged. Tthe tools that allowed Spellbreakers to stall out a condition mirage's damage out put were never nerfed. Heck, they only got buffed. Shake It Off was power crept back in July 2018. Berserker Stance was changed in November 2017 and it was a horizontal change that reduced it's duration and it's cooldown. And with the Last Stand trait you came out tiny bit ahead.

    It's just the fact of the matter that Spellbreaker always had the tools to completely stall out condition mirage. Don't believe me? Go watch the Mist Challenger's tournament. All of the game's best players coming together to compete over a $2000 prize pool including Rank 55 Dragons and Team USA facing off in the finals.

    This tournament happened after the phantasm rework super charged a lot of mesmer capabilities. Every time one of the condition mesmers went up against one of the spellbreakers it resulted in a perpetual stall out. Are you really going to call Misha and Zeromis trash mesmers who don't know how to think about playing and weren't putting in effort?

    What changed was that Arenanet power crept the hell out of Physical Skills. Bull's Rush, Rampage in particular and the Peak Performance trait. Suddenly every Spellbreaker found out with Magebane Tether they could casually toss out 10k Arcing Slices and Whirlind Blades, 6k Damage Bull's Rushes. And it turns out being able to thoughtlessly two shot most builds after ramping up some might even before you go into Rampage is more effective against everything that isn't a condition mirage enough to make the worse match up against that particular build, especially when that build is largely dead now.

    Spellbreakers can stall out condition mirages even now. They just chose to not run the build that does so in favor of better match ups against everything else since nothing runs condition damage anymore.

    Yeah no. Watch shorts. Watch him destroy warriors in p3 quite quickly. Warrior has 2 cleanses that's it even with thether u don't get enough healing to out sustain condi. There's no way it can sustain enough to stall out Condi mesmer. U are seriously making kitten up about 10k arching slice.

    Those warriors are strength warriors who aren't running the traits and utiliities they have that easily deal with condition mirage because it's better for them that they don't because no one runs condition damage anymore.

    I am a p2 warrior n I face mesmer at that level. I can stall for Abit of time but I am forced to leave.

    I can see the leaderboard right now. You aren't.

    Then you are obviously just making kitten up then. How can a warrior not run strength traits hit u for 10k?

    You're not reading my posts correctly. Im saying meta spellbreaker is giving up outsustaining condition mesmers in favor of those 10k crits. It's a deliberate choice.

    You are right in that I miss read.my mistake on that.

    Yes strength warrior is back because the likes of scrapper and prot Holo are here. But overall I believe that to be a good thing. Because now that you see warrior you can go mesmer. If you see engineer you can go warrior. And if you see mesmer you can scrapper.

    There are absolutely p1 and p2 mesmers I face all the time and I am forced to use scrapper. Where they can just out rotate. I still by that Condi mes is not dead. Just takes more knowledge now than before where you passively win fights.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @Jack.8124 said:

    @Eddbopkins.2630 said:
    Omg ur outa of meta for the 1st time in 7 years? Cant play this game no more....#sarcasm....how about u main a ele then u have the right to complain about being out of meta.

    I'm sad about ele too, but ATM mesmer is completely out of scene.. I hope anet balance ele too... This is not a counter balance post...

    For the most part Mesmer is so called "out of meta" because of poor mind state of most of its players. Mesmer has been broken for so so so long that most of them are no longer able to tell the difference between Broken OP and Normal, so now when its not pathetic ez mode they think it is not viable, while the truth is it is perfectly viable (some of its Meta builds at least) just no longer broken.

    Agreed. Tbh mesmer is only out of "meta" because of things like scrapper. Condi mes will absolutely wreck warrior and can do fair against rifle holo.

    The passive Condi dmg is still absolutely incredible. If you don't have consistent cleansing. You will be forced to leave node. But even then it's still viable as a Condi dps. If you watch ATs there are mesmers that just go. Stack Condi on and leave.

    It's not god like. Unlike before but it's absolutely playable.

    Spellbreaker has always had the tools to 100% stall out a condition mirage, even post phantasm rework when a number of mesmer abilities were super charged. Tthe tools that allowed Spellbreakers to stall out a condition mirage's damage out put were never nerfed. Heck, they only got buffed. Shake It Off was power crept back in July 2018. Berserker Stance was changed in November 2017 and it was a horizontal change that reduced it's duration and it's cooldown. And with the Last Stand trait you came out tiny bit ahead.

    It's just the fact of the matter that Spellbreaker always had the tools to completely stall out condition mirage. Don't believe me? Go watch the Mist Challenger's tournament. All of the game's best players coming together to compete over a $2000 prize pool including Rank 55 Dragons and Team USA facing off in the finals.

    This tournament happened after the phantasm rework super charged a lot of mesmer capabilities. Every time one of the condition mesmers went up against one of the spellbreakers it resulted in a perpetual stall out. Are you really going to call Misha and Zeromis trash mesmers who don't know how to think about playing and weren't putting in effort?

    What changed was that Arenanet power crept the hell out of Physical Skills. Bull's Rush, Rampage in particular and the Peak Performance trait. Suddenly every Spellbreaker found out with Magebane Tether they could casually toss out 10k Arcing Slices and Whirlind Blades, 6k Damage Bull's Rushes. And it turns out being able to thoughtlessly two shot most builds after ramping up some might even before you go into Rampage is more effective against everything that isn't a condition mirage enough to make the worse match up against that particular build, especially when that build is largely dead now.

    Spellbreakers can stall out condition mirages even now. They just chose to not run the build that does so in favor of better match ups against everything else since nothing runs condition damage anymore.

    Yeah no. Watch shorts. Watch him destroy warriors in p3 quite quickly. Warrior has 2 cleanses that's it even with thether u don't get enough healing to out sustain condi. There's no way it can sustain enough to stall out Condi mesmer. U are seriously making kitten up about 10k arching slice.

    Those warriors are strength warriors who aren't running the traits and utiliities they have that easily deal with condition mirage because it's better for them that they don't because no one runs condition damage anymore.

    I am a p2 warrior n I face mesmer at that level. I can stall for Abit of time but I am forced to leave.

    I can see the leaderboard right now. You aren't.

    Then you are obviously just making kitten up then. How can a warrior not run strength traits hit u for 10k?

    You're not reading my posts correctly. Im saying meta spellbreaker is giving up outsustaining condition mesmers in favor of those 10k crits. It's a deliberate choice.

    You are right in that I miss read.my mistake on that.

    Yes strength warrior is back because the likes of scrapper and prot Holo are here. But overall I believe that to be a good thing. Because now that you see warrior you can go mesmer. If you see engineer you can go warrior. And if you see mesmer you can scrapper.

    There are absolutely p1 and p2 mesmers I face all the time and I am forced to use scrapper. Where they can just out rotate. I still by that Condi mes is not dead. Just takes more knowledge now than before where you passively win fights.

    Strength spellbreaker is here because multiple patches thoughout 2018 power crept the strength tree and physicals. Spellbreakers were 1vXing holos and scrappers and mirages long before the strength buffs.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • TorQ.7041TorQ.7041 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 11, 2019

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @Jack.8124 said:

    @Eddbopkins.2630 said:
    Omg ur outa of meta for the 1st time in 7 years? Cant play this game no more....#sarcasm....how about u main a ele then u have the right to complain about being out of meta.

    I'm sad about ele too, but ATM mesmer is completely out of scene.. I hope anet balance ele too... This is not a counter balance post...

    For the most part Mesmer is so called "out of meta" because of poor mind state of most of its players. Mesmer has been broken for so so so long that most of them are no longer able to tell the difference between Broken OP and Normal, so now when its not pathetic ez mode they think it is not viable, while the truth is it is perfectly viable (some of its Meta builds at least) just no longer broken.

    Agreed. Tbh mesmer is only out of "meta" because of things like scrapper. Condi mes will absolutely wreck warrior and can do fair against rifle holo.

    The passive Condi dmg is still absolutely incredible. If you don't have consistent cleansing. You will be forced to leave node. But even then it's still viable as a Condi dps. If you watch ATs there are mesmers that just go. Stack Condi on and leave.

    It's not god like. Unlike before but it's absolutely playable.

    Spellbreaker has always had the tools to 100% stall out a condition mirage, even post phantasm rework when a number of mesmer abilities were super charged. Tthe tools that allowed Spellbreakers to stall out a condition mirage's damage out put were never nerfed. Heck, they only got buffed. Shake It Off was power crept back in July 2018. Berserker Stance was changed in November 2017 and it was a horizontal change that reduced it's duration and it's cooldown. And with the Last Stand trait you came out tiny bit ahead.

    It's just the fact of the matter that Spellbreaker always had the tools to completely stall out condition mirage. Don't believe me? Go watch the Mist Challenger's tournament. All of the game's best players coming together to compete over a $2000 prize pool including Rank 55 Dragons and Team USA facing off in the finals.

    This tournament happened after the phantasm rework super charged a lot of mesmer capabilities. Every time one of the condition mesmers went up against one of the spellbreakers it resulted in a perpetual stall out. Are you really going to call Misha and Zeromis trash mesmers who don't know how to think about playing and weren't putting in effort?

    What changed was that Arenanet power crept the hell out of Physical Skills. Bull's Rush, Rampage in particular and the Peak Performance trait. Suddenly every Spellbreaker found out with Magebane Tether they could casually toss out 10k Arcing Slices and Whirlind Blades, 6k Damage Bull's Rushes. And it turns out being able to thoughtlessly two shot most builds after ramping up some might even before you go into Rampage is more effective against everything that isn't a condition mirage enough to make the worse match up against that particular build, especially when that build is largely dead now.

    Spellbreakers can stall out condition mirages even now. They just chose to not run the build that does so in favor of better match ups against everything else since nothing runs condition damage anymore.

    Yeah no. Watch shorts. Watch him destroy warriors in p3 quite quickly. Warrior has 2 cleanses that's it even with thether u don't get enough healing to out sustain condi. There's no way it can sustain enough to stall out Condi mesmer. U are seriously making kitten up about 10k arching slice.

    Those warriors are strength warriors who aren't running the traits and utiliities they have that easily deal with condition mirage because it's better for them that they don't because no one runs condition damage anymore.

    I am a p2 warrior n I face mesmer at that level. I can stall for Abit of time but I am forced to leave.

    I can see the leaderboard right now. You aren't.

    Then you are obviously just making kitten up then. How can a warrior not run strength traits hit u for 10k?

    You're not reading my posts correctly. Im saying meta spellbreaker is giving up outsustaining condition mesmers in favor of those 10k crits. It's a deliberate choice.

    You are right in that I miss read.my mistake on that.

    Yes strength warrior is back because the likes of scrapper and prot Holo are here. But overall I believe that to be a good thing. Because now that you see warrior you can go mesmer. If you see engineer you can go warrior. And if you see mesmer you can scrapper.

    There are absolutely p1 and p2 mesmers I face all the time and I am forced to use scrapper. Where they can just out rotate. I still by that Condi mes is not dead. Just takes more knowledge now than before where you passively win fights.

    Strength spellbreaker is here because multiple patches thoughout 2018 power crept the strength tree and physicals. Spellbreakers were 1vXing holos and scrappers and mirages long before the strength buffs.

    Spellbreaker was able to 1vX because of fullcounter which had been nerfed to hell. It can't 1vX as much anymore. But rather serves as a duelist that had to run to a +1. Against a equal Holo it can sustain for some time till it loses because Holo has more sustain. But it can demolish bunker builds like scrapper. Which is the definition of balanced imo.

    I fully believe that the power is needed. Because most of the time as warrior you are not going to land much against a equal skill player. At plat lvl. All the skills are telegraphed, have a big delay and does not do aoe. Or rather a tiny amount of aoe. There are 3 main ways to do some kinda dmg. Arcing slice, whirling blades. The other requires u bulls charge to hundred blades. Bulls charge takes skill since you cant just randomly press it. You need to wait till all stab and dodges are burned and you land a dagger skill before you can do it.
    Else you wasted an evade and a knock down that had a long recharge. Given the difficulty to actually land anything it should absolutely do damage. Unlike a ranger or rev, where it's unblockable and if evades arent up it's a sure thing. Warrior hits are not.

    I honestly believe you need to play warrior till 1600 to fully understand. It's not a easy 2 button hit win as u make it out to be. Especially not at 1600+

    This brings about what I feel about balance. If you can hit pretty easily such as channeled ranged skills or teleported ranged skills. Your damage should be low if you have high sustain.

    If you have no sustain then your channeled and ranged skills should have high damage

    And if you can't hit easily and have big telegraphs. You should absolutely do dmg dmg when you can actually land a hit because it takes patience and skill to do that.

    If you have no damage you should absolutely have extreme sustain

    These would balanced each other out and a team

  • Solori.6025Solori.6025 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Xstein.2187 said:
    I don't even care about overall balance.
    FIRST they need to:

    1. Fix the blatant biasses present in the game. God, they are supposed to be professionals
      https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/74289/anets-favourite-child/p1
      .
    2. Bring "Trait Choice" back to the mesmer trait lines.
      Right now there are obvious 'trait winners' and obvious 'dead traits' as well. You literally don't even need to make trait decisions when playing a mesmer anymore. They are basically made for you as long as you know how to read what the traits do and are familiar with the game.
      This wasn't always the case.
      .
    3. Make mesmer fun to play again.
      .
    4. Undo core mesmer trait nerfs since core mesmer was never meta since before HoT and never the problem to begin with, make the correct balancing decisions that should have been made a long time ago, and bring all the elites in the game in line with the cores.
      .
    5. Quite listening to streamers who don't know what they are talking about or present themselves as knowing more about a class then they do.
      .
    6. Bring back the people you banned or quite who wouldn't have been banned or quite if mesmer was handled correctly in the past to begin with.
      .
    7. Quite balancing based on popular vote or what is perceived as 'fun'. Fun doesn't equal balanced. You can make changes without lowering how powerful a class is.
      .
    8. Quite making broken promises or if you do so, apologize.
      "Chronomancy is the only specialization allowed access to this powerful effect" my butt.
      https://heartofthorns.guildwars2.com/game/specializations

    +1

    Tingle my stingleberry

  • @mortrialus.3062 said:
    That would require nerfing condition cleanses that have been power crept since Path of Fire across most classes. And I genuinely think a large majority of players do not want to have to think about condition damage as a damage archetype they need to be prepared for. There are multiple builds just from their trait selection right now that are just hard immune to condition damage as an archetype. There aren't builds are nigh invulnerable to power damage, there shouldn't be builds that invulnerable to condition damage.

    Right now Power Greatsword and mantras are the only viable builds for mesmer, and those have always been more toxic from a design perspective than Condi Mirage was.

    True. Admittedly some of the condi cleanse could be toned down slightly on some skills, particularly traits. Traits that are tied to 2 or 3 cleanses could easily be bumped down to 1 since they usually come tied with additional effects. Like Wilderness Knowledge on Ranger for example: Already gives reduced CD on survival skills and Fury on use(Which is 7% more damage on Soulbeast as well) and ontop of that; 2 condi cleanses per survival skill used. Stuff like that could easily be bumped down to 1 condi cleansed and still be viable.

    Still, this is in line with what i'm saying. Leave Mesmer as it is, and keep the balance focus on the objectively more powerful side-noders.

    And Iunno what you're talking about here:

    There aren't builds are nigh invulnerable to power damage, there shouldn't be builds that invulnerable to condition damage.

    It's called Scrapper and it's nigh invulnerable to both. And protection Holo is more suitable to stalling power builds than it is at condition builds, same goes for Herald.

    And that thing about power shatter? Power Shatter is one of, if not the only respectable gank build in my opinion. Their bursts are for the most part blockable, they can't stack crazy damage multipliers, and they don't have super crazy sustain to couple with the damage they deal.

    Remove Ranked DuoQ pls&ty

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 11, 2019

    @Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    That would require nerfing condition cleanses that have been power crept since Path of Fire across most classes. And I genuinely think a large majority of players do not want to have to think about condition damage as a damage archetype they need to be prepared for. There are multiple builds just from their trait selection right now that are just hard immune to condition damage as an archetype. There aren't builds are nigh invulnerable to power damage, there shouldn't be builds that invulnerable to condition damage.

    Right now Power Greatsword and mantras are the only viable builds for mesmer, and those have always been more toxic from a design perspective than Condi Mirage was.

    True. Admittedly some of the condi cleanse could be toned down slightly on some skills, particularly traits. Traits that are tied to 2 or 3 cleanses could easily be bumped down to 1 since they usually come tied with additional effects. Like Wilderness Knowledge on Ranger for example: Already gives reduced CD on survival skills and Fury on use(Which is 7% more damage on Soulbeast as well) and ontop of that; 2 condi cleanses per survival skill used. Stuff like that could easily be bumped down to 1 condi cleansed and still be viable.

    Still, this is in line with what i'm saying. Leave Mesmer as it is, and keep the balance focus on the objectively more powerful side-noders.

    And Iunno what you're talking about here:

    There aren't builds are nigh invulnerable to power damage, there shouldn't be builds that invulnerable to condition damage.

    It's called Scrapper and it's nigh invulnerable to both. And protection Holo is more suitable to stalling power builds than it is at condition builds, same goes for Herald.

    And that thing about power shatter? Power Shatter is one of, if not the only respectable gank build in my opinion. Their bursts are for the most part blockable, they can't stack crazy damage multipliers, and they don't have super crazy sustain to couple with the damage they deal.

    My point was that if conditions were strong enough where you could pick any of the 9 professions and see 30-50% of them were running condition varients the player base would riot.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    That would require nerfing condition cleanses that have been power crept since Path of Fire across most classes. And I genuinely think a large majority of players do not want to have to think about condition damage as a damage archetype they need to be prepared for. There are multiple builds just from their trait selection right now that are just hard immune to condition damage as an archetype. There aren't builds are nigh invulnerable to power damage, there shouldn't be builds that invulnerable to condition damage.

    Right now Power Greatsword and mantras are the only viable builds for mesmer, and those have always been more toxic from a design perspective than Condi Mirage was.

    True. Admittedly some of the condi cleanse could be toned down slightly on some skills, particularly traits. Traits that are tied to 2 or 3 cleanses could easily be bumped down to 1 since they usually come tied with additional effects. Like Wilderness Knowledge on Ranger for example: Already gives reduced CD on survival skills and Fury on use(Which is 7% more damage on Soulbeast as well) and ontop of that; 2 condi cleanses per survival skill used. Stuff like that could easily be bumped down to 1 condi cleansed and still be viable.

    Still, this is in line with what i'm saying. Leave Mesmer as it is, and keep the balance focus on the objectively more powerful side-noders.

    And Iunno what you're talking about here:

    There aren't builds are nigh invulnerable to power damage, there shouldn't be builds that invulnerable to condition damage.

    It's called Scrapper and it's nigh invulnerable to both. And protection Holo is more suitable to stalling power builds than it is at condition builds, same goes for Herald.

    And that thing about power shatter? Power Shatter is one of, if not the only respectable gank build in my opinion. Their bursts are for the most part blockable, they can't stack crazy damage multipliers, and they don't have super crazy sustain to couple with the damage they deal.

    There is a world of difference between dealing with a scrapper as power vs condi that is completely lost on you.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @Jack.8124 said:

    @Eddbopkins.2630 said:
    Omg ur outa of meta for the 1st time in 7 years? Cant play this game no more....#sarcasm....how about u main a ele then u have the right to complain about being out of meta.

    I'm sad about ele too, but ATM mesmer is completely out of scene.. I hope anet balance ele too... This is not a counter balance post...

    For the most part Mesmer is so called "out of meta" because of poor mind state of most of its players. Mesmer has been broken for so so so long that most of them are no longer able to tell the difference between Broken OP and Normal, so now when its not pathetic ez mode they think it is not viable, while the truth is it is perfectly viable (some of its Meta builds at least) just no longer broken.

    Agreed. Tbh mesmer is only out of "meta" because of things like scrapper. Condi mes will absolutely wreck warrior and can do fair against rifle holo.

    The passive Condi dmg is still absolutely incredible. If you don't have consistent cleansing. You will be forced to leave node. But even then it's still viable as a Condi dps. If you watch ATs there are mesmers that just go. Stack Condi on and leave.

    It's not god like. Unlike before but it's absolutely playable.

    Spellbreaker has always had the tools to 100% stall out a condition mirage, even post phantasm rework when a number of mesmer abilities were super charged. Tthe tools that allowed Spellbreakers to stall out a condition mirage's damage out put were never nerfed. Heck, they only got buffed. Shake It Off was power crept back in July 2018. Berserker Stance was changed in November 2017 and it was a horizontal change that reduced it's duration and it's cooldown. And with the Last Stand trait you came out tiny bit ahead.

    It's just the fact of the matter that Spellbreaker always had the tools to completely stall out condition mirage. Don't believe me? Go watch the Mist Challenger's tournament. All of the game's best players coming together to compete over a $2000 prize pool including Rank 55 Dragons and Team USA facing off in the finals.

    This tournament happened after the phantasm rework super charged a lot of mesmer capabilities. Every time one of the condition mesmers went up against one of the spellbreakers it resulted in a perpetual stall out. Are you really going to call Misha and Zeromis trash mesmers who don't know how to think about playing and weren't putting in effort?

    What changed was that Arenanet power crept the hell out of Physical Skills. Bull's Rush, Rampage in particular and the Peak Performance trait. Suddenly every Spellbreaker found out with Magebane Tether they could casually toss out 10k Arcing Slices and Whirlind Blades, 6k Damage Bull's Rushes. And it turns out being able to thoughtlessly two shot most builds after ramping up some might even before you go into Rampage is more effective against everything that isn't a condition mirage enough to make the worse match up against that particular build, especially when that build is largely dead now.

    Spellbreakers can stall out condition mirages even now. They just chose to not run the build that does so in favor of better match ups against everything else since nothing runs condition damage anymore.

    Yeah no. Watch shorts. Watch him destroy warriors in p3 quite quickly. Warrior has 2 cleanses that's it even with thether u don't get enough healing to out sustain condi. There's no way it can sustain enough to stall out Condi mesmer. U are seriously making kitten up about 10k arching slice.

    Those warriors are strength warriors who aren't running the traits and utiliities they have that easily deal with condition mirage because it's better for them that they don't because no one runs condition damage anymore.

    I am a p2 warrior n I face mesmer at that level. I can stall for Abit of time but I am forced to leave.

    I can see the leaderboard right now. You aren't.

    Then you are obviously just making kitten up then. How can a warrior not run strength traits hit u for 10k?

    You're not reading my posts correctly. Im saying meta spellbreaker is giving up outsustaining condition mesmers in favor of those 10k crits. It's a deliberate choice.

    You are right in that I miss read.my mistake on that.

    Yes strength warrior is back because the likes of scrapper and prot Holo are here. But overall I believe that to be a good thing. Because now that you see warrior you can go mesmer. If you see engineer you can go warrior. And if you see mesmer you can scrapper.

    There are absolutely p1 and p2 mesmers I face all the time and I am forced to use scrapper. Where they can just out rotate. I still by that Condi mes is not dead. Just takes more knowledge now than before where you passively win fights.

    Strength spellbreaker is here because multiple patches thoughout 2018 power crept the strength tree and physicals. Spellbreakers were 1vXing holos and scrappers and mirages long before the strength buffs.

    I honestly believe you need to play warrior till 1600 to fully understand. It's not a easy 2 button hit win as u make it out to be. Especially not at 1600+

    Literally every player on every build thinks this way about their profession.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • TorQ.7041TorQ.7041 Member ✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @Jack.8124 said:

    @Eddbopkins.2630 said:
    Omg ur outa of meta for the 1st time in 7 years? Cant play this game no more....#sarcasm....how about u main a ele then u have the right to complain about being out of meta.

    I'm sad about ele too, but ATM mesmer is completely out of scene.. I hope anet balance ele too... This is not a counter balance post...

    For the most part Mesmer is so called "out of meta" because of poor mind state of most of its players. Mesmer has been broken for so so so long that most of them are no longer able to tell the difference between Broken OP and Normal, so now when its not pathetic ez mode they think it is not viable, while the truth is it is perfectly viable (some of its Meta builds at least) just no longer broken.

    Agreed. Tbh mesmer is only out of "meta" because of things like scrapper. Condi mes will absolutely wreck warrior and can do fair against rifle holo.

    The passive Condi dmg is still absolutely incredible. If you don't have consistent cleansing. You will be forced to leave node. But even then it's still viable as a Condi dps. If you watch ATs there are mesmers that just go. Stack Condi on and leave.

    It's not god like. Unlike before but it's absolutely playable.

    Spellbreaker has always had the tools to 100% stall out a condition mirage, even post phantasm rework when a number of mesmer abilities were super charged. Tthe tools that allowed Spellbreakers to stall out a condition mirage's damage out put were never nerfed. Heck, they only got buffed. Shake It Off was power crept back in July 2018. Berserker Stance was changed in November 2017 and it was a horizontal change that reduced it's duration and it's cooldown. And with the Last Stand trait you came out tiny bit ahead.

    It's just the fact of the matter that Spellbreaker always had the tools to completely stall out condition mirage. Don't believe me? Go watch the Mist Challenger's tournament. All of the game's best players coming together to compete over a $2000 prize pool including Rank 55 Dragons and Team USA facing off in the finals.

    This tournament happened after the phantasm rework super charged a lot of mesmer capabilities. Every time one of the condition mesmers went up against one of the spellbreakers it resulted in a perpetual stall out. Are you really going to call Misha and Zeromis trash mesmers who don't know how to think about playing and weren't putting in effort?

    What changed was that Arenanet power crept the hell out of Physical Skills. Bull's Rush, Rampage in particular and the Peak Performance trait. Suddenly every Spellbreaker found out with Magebane Tether they could casually toss out 10k Arcing Slices and Whirlind Blades, 6k Damage Bull's Rushes. And it turns out being able to thoughtlessly two shot most builds after ramping up some might even before you go into Rampage is more effective against everything that isn't a condition mirage enough to make the worse match up against that particular build, especially when that build is largely dead now.

    Spellbreakers can stall out condition mirages even now. They just chose to not run the build that does so in favor of better match ups against everything else since nothing runs condition damage anymore.

    Yeah no. Watch shorts. Watch him destroy warriors in p3 quite quickly. Warrior has 2 cleanses that's it even with thether u don't get enough healing to out sustain condi. There's no way it can sustain enough to stall out Condi mesmer. U are seriously making kitten up about 10k arching slice.

    Those warriors are strength warriors who aren't running the traits and utiliities they have that easily deal with condition mirage because it's better for them that they don't because no one runs condition damage anymore.

    I am a p2 warrior n I face mesmer at that level. I can stall for Abit of time but I am forced to leave.

    I can see the leaderboard right now. You aren't.

    Then you are obviously just making kitten up then. How can a warrior not run strength traits hit u for 10k?

    You're not reading my posts correctly. Im saying meta spellbreaker is giving up outsustaining condition mesmers in favor of those 10k crits. It's a deliberate choice.

    You are right in that I miss read.my mistake on that.

    Yes strength warrior is back because the likes of scrapper and prot Holo are here. But overall I believe that to be a good thing. Because now that you see warrior you can go mesmer. If you see engineer you can go warrior. And if you see mesmer you can scrapper.

    There are absolutely p1 and p2 mesmers I face all the time and I am forced to use scrapper. Where they can just out rotate. I still by that Condi mes is not dead. Just takes more knowledge now than before where you passively win fights.

    Strength spellbreaker is here because multiple patches thoughout 2018 power crept the strength tree and physicals. Spellbreakers were 1vXing holos and scrappers and mirages long before the strength buffs.

    I honestly believe you need to play warrior till 1600 to fully understand. It's not a easy 2 button hit win as u make it out to be. Especially not at 1600+

    Literally every player on every build thinks this way about their profession.

    Pretty much. Which is why I play something different all the time. I did thief unsuccessfully, mes,Holo,scrapper, war. Doing ranger next. I will go back to Condi mes and prove you can get to plat on it.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 11, 2019

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @Jack.8124 said:

    @Eddbopkins.2630 said:
    Omg ur outa of meta for the 1st time in 7 years? Cant play this game no more....#sarcasm....how about u main a ele then u have the right to complain about being out of meta.

    I'm sad about ele too, but ATM mesmer is completely out of scene.. I hope anet balance ele too... This is not a counter balance post...

    For the most part Mesmer is so called "out of meta" because of poor mind state of most of its players. Mesmer has been broken for so so so long that most of them are no longer able to tell the difference between Broken OP and Normal, so now when its not pathetic ez mode they think it is not viable, while the truth is it is perfectly viable (some of its Meta builds at least) just no longer broken.

    Agreed. Tbh mesmer is only out of "meta" because of things like scrapper. Condi mes will absolutely wreck warrior and can do fair against rifle holo.

    The passive Condi dmg is still absolutely incredible. If you don't have consistent cleansing. You will be forced to leave node. But even then it's still viable as a Condi dps. If you watch ATs there are mesmers that just go. Stack Condi on and leave.

    It's not god like. Unlike before but it's absolutely playable.

    Spellbreaker has always had the tools to 100% stall out a condition mirage, even post phantasm rework when a number of mesmer abilities were super charged. Tthe tools that allowed Spellbreakers to stall out a condition mirage's damage out put were never nerfed. Heck, they only got buffed. Shake It Off was power crept back in July 2018. Berserker Stance was changed in November 2017 and it was a horizontal change that reduced it's duration and it's cooldown. And with the Last Stand trait you came out tiny bit ahead.

    It's just the fact of the matter that Spellbreaker always had the tools to completely stall out condition mirage. Don't believe me? Go watch the Mist Challenger's tournament. All of the game's best players coming together to compete over a $2000 prize pool including Rank 55 Dragons and Team USA facing off in the finals.

    This tournament happened after the phantasm rework super charged a lot of mesmer capabilities. Every time one of the condition mesmers went up against one of the spellbreakers it resulted in a perpetual stall out. Are you really going to call Misha and Zeromis trash mesmers who don't know how to think about playing and weren't putting in effort?

    What changed was that Arenanet power crept the hell out of Physical Skills. Bull's Rush, Rampage in particular and the Peak Performance trait. Suddenly every Spellbreaker found out with Magebane Tether they could casually toss out 10k Arcing Slices and Whirlind Blades, 6k Damage Bull's Rushes. And it turns out being able to thoughtlessly two shot most builds after ramping up some might even before you go into Rampage is more effective against everything that isn't a condition mirage enough to make the worse match up against that particular build, especially when that build is largely dead now.

    Spellbreakers can stall out condition mirages even now. They just chose to not run the build that does so in favor of better match ups against everything else since nothing runs condition damage anymore.

    Yeah no. Watch shorts. Watch him destroy warriors in p3 quite quickly. Warrior has 2 cleanses that's it even with thether u don't get enough healing to out sustain condi. There's no way it can sustain enough to stall out Condi mesmer. U are seriously making kitten up about 10k arching slice.

    Those warriors are strength warriors who aren't running the traits and utiliities they have that easily deal with condition mirage because it's better for them that they don't because no one runs condition damage anymore.

    I am a p2 warrior n I face mesmer at that level. I can stall for Abit of time but I am forced to leave.

    I can see the leaderboard right now. You aren't.

    Then you are obviously just making kitten up then. How can a warrior not run strength traits hit u for 10k?

    You're not reading my posts correctly. Im saying meta spellbreaker is giving up outsustaining condition mesmers in favor of those 10k crits. It's a deliberate choice.

    You are right in that I miss read.my mistake on that.

    Yes strength warrior is back because the likes of scrapper and prot Holo are here. But overall I believe that to be a good thing. Because now that you see warrior you can go mesmer. If you see engineer you can go warrior. And if you see mesmer you can scrapper.

    There are absolutely p1 and p2 mesmers I face all the time and I am forced to use scrapper. Where they can just out rotate. I still by that Condi mes is not dead. Just takes more knowledge now than before where you passively win fights.

    Strength spellbreaker is here because multiple patches thoughout 2018 power crept the strength tree and physicals. Spellbreakers were 1vXing holos and scrappers and mirages long before the strength buffs.

    I honestly believe you need to play warrior till 1600 to fully understand. It's not a easy 2 button hit win as u make it out to be. Especially not at 1600+

    Literally every player on every build thinks this way about their profession.

    Pretty much. Which is why I play something different all the time. I did thief unsuccessfully, mes,Holo,scrapper, war. Doing ranger next. I will go back to Condi mes and prove you can get to plat on it.

    I have been plat on power and condi mirage post May. Im always plat. The highest rated condi mirage NA was Countless who was about 36ish if I recall. I dont think there were any power mesmers higher than that. And there were a whole lot more spellbreakers, revs, holos, and scrappers who made it higher than that.

    I don't find platinuum to be an impressive threshold on any build.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • Twilight Tempest.7584Twilight Tempest.7584 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 11, 2019

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @Jack.8124 said:

    @Eddbopkins.2630 said:
    Omg ur outa of meta for the 1st time in 7 years? Cant play this game no more....#sarcasm....how about u main a ele then u have the right to complain about being out of meta.

    I'm sad about ele too, but ATM mesmer is completely out of scene.. I hope anet balance ele too... This is not a counter balance post...

    For the most part Mesmer is so called "out of meta" because of poor mind state of most of its players. Mesmer has been broken for so so so long that most of them are no longer able to tell the difference between Broken OP and Normal, so now when its not pathetic ez mode they think it is not viable, while the truth is it is perfectly viable (some of its Meta builds at least) just no longer broken.

    Agreed. Tbh mesmer is only out of "meta" because of things like scrapper. Condi mes will absolutely wreck warrior and can do fair against rifle holo.

    The passive Condi dmg is still absolutely incredible. If you don't have consistent cleansing. You will be forced to leave node. But even then it's still viable as a Condi dps. If you watch ATs there are mesmers that just go. Stack Condi on and leave.

    It's not god like. Unlike before but it's absolutely playable.

    Spellbreaker has always had the tools to 100% stall out a condition mirage, even post phantasm rework when a number of mesmer abilities were super charged. Tthe tools that allowed Spellbreakers to stall out a condition mirage's damage out put were never nerfed. Heck, they only got buffed. Shake It Off was power crept back in July 2018. Berserker Stance was changed in November 2017 and it was a horizontal change that reduced it's duration and it's cooldown. And with the Last Stand trait you came out tiny bit ahead.

    It's just the fact of the matter that Spellbreaker always had the tools to completely stall out condition mirage. Don't believe me? Go watch the Mist Challenger's tournament. All of the game's best players coming together to compete over a $2000 prize pool including Rank 55 Dragons and Team USA facing off in the finals.

    This tournament happened after the phantasm rework super charged a lot of mesmer capabilities. Every time one of the condition mesmers went up against one of the spellbreakers it resulted in a perpetual stall out. Are you really going to call Misha and Zeromis trash mesmers who don't know how to think about playing and weren't putting in effort?

    What changed was that Arenanet power crept the hell out of Physical Skills. Bull's Rush, Rampage in particular and the Peak Performance trait. Suddenly every Spellbreaker found out with Magebane Tether they could casually toss out 10k Arcing Slices and Whirlind Blades, 6k Damage Bull's Rushes. And it turns out being able to thoughtlessly two shot most builds after ramping up some might even before you go into Rampage is more effective against everything that isn't a condition mirage enough to make the worse match up against that particular build, especially when that build is largely dead now.

    Spellbreakers can stall out condition mirages even now. They just chose to not run the build that does so in favor of better match ups against everything else since nothing runs condition damage anymore.

    Yeah no. Watch shorts. Watch him destroy warriors in p3 quite quickly. Warrior has 2 cleanses that's it even with thether u don't get enough healing to out sustain condi. There's no way it can sustain enough to stall out Condi mesmer. U are seriously making kitten up about 10k arching slice.

    Those warriors are strength warriors who aren't running the traits and utiliities they have that easily deal with condition mirage because it's better for them that they don't because no one runs condition damage anymore.

    I am a p2 warrior n I face mesmer at that level. I can stall for Abit of time but I am forced to leave.

    I can see the leaderboard right now. You aren't.

    Then you are obviously just making kitten up then. How can a warrior not run strength traits hit u for 10k?

    You're not reading my posts correctly. Im saying meta spellbreaker is giving up outsustaining condition mesmers in favor of those 10k crits. It's a deliberate choice.

    You are right in that I miss read.my mistake on that.

    Yes strength warrior is back because the likes of scrapper and prot Holo are here. But overall I believe that to be a good thing. Because now that you see warrior you can go mesmer. If you see engineer you can go warrior. And if you see mesmer you can scrapper.

    There are absolutely p1 and p2 mesmers I face all the time and I am forced to use scrapper. Where they can just out rotate. I still by that Condi mes is not dead. Just takes more knowledge now than before where you passively win fights.

    Strength spellbreaker is here because multiple patches thoughout 2018 power crept the strength tree and physicals. Spellbreakers were 1vXing holos and scrappers and mirages long before the strength buffs.

    I honestly believe you need to play warrior till 1600 to fully understand. It's not a easy 2 button hit win as u make it out to be. Especially not at 1600+

    Literally every player on every build thinks this way about their profession.

    Pretty much. Which is why I play something different all the time. I did thief unsuccessfully, mes,Holo,scrapper, war. Doing ranger next. I will go back to Condi mes and prove you can get to plat on it.

    That's respectable. But.. if you do it next season after everything else possibly gets nerfed, it's not quite the same as pulling it off last season. Different metas.

  • witcher.3197witcher.3197 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 11, 2019

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @Xstein.2187 said:
    I don't even care about overall balance.
    FIRST they need to:

    1. Fix the blatant biasses present in the game. God, they are supposed to be professionals
      https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/74289/anets-favourite-child/p1
      .
    2. Bring "Trait Choice" back to the mesmer trait lines.
      Right now there are obvious 'trait winners' and obvious 'dead traits' as well. You literally don't even need to make trait decisions when playing a mesmer anymore. They are basically made for you as long as you know how to read what the traits do and are familiar with the game.
      This wasn't always the case.
      .
    3. Make mesmer fun to play again.
      .
    4. Undo core mesmer trait nerfs since core mesmer was never meta since before HoT and never the problem to begin with, make the correct balancing decisions that should have been made a long time ago, and bring all the elites in the game in line with the cores.
      .
    5. Quite listening to streamers who don't know what they are talking about or present themselves as knowing more about a class then they do.
      .
    6. Bring back the people you banned or quite who wouldn't have been banned or quite if mesmer was handled correctly in the past to begin with.
      .
    7. Quite balancing based on popular vote or what is perceived as 'fun'. Fun doesn't equal balanced. You can make changes without lowering how powerful a class is.
      .
    8. Quite making broken promises or if you do so, apologize.
      "Chronomancy is the only specialization allowed access to this powerful effect" my butt.
      https://heartofthorns.guildwars2.com/game/specializations

    +1

    I always get a chuckle out of "its unfun to play against".

    Nothing in any game is "fun to play against". Theyre fun to kill, thats where the fun is. And if you get killed you keep not having fun same as before.

    I disagree. Really enjoyed dueling some builds like GS power mes or rangers before HoT. They've had telegraphed and balanced abilities, so if you got hit by a burst it was because you screwed up, and if you dodged the right things you were rewarded for it. Moment to moment gameplay was fun and rewarding.

    I felt good when I had won, and I wasn't frustrated when I lost because I knew that I just got outplayed - but now I knew how that happened and what I needed to do differently so I was always looking forward to the next duel where I could do things better.

    Now it's just a powercreeped nonstop spamfest where if you're not dodging/blocking 90% of the time you'll get oneshot by random things because even autoattacks can hit for 25% of my HP.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @witcher.3197 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @Xstein.2187 said:
    I don't even care about overall balance.
    FIRST they need to:

    1. Fix the blatant biasses present in the game. God, they are supposed to be professionals
      https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/74289/anets-favourite-child/p1
      .
    2. Bring "Trait Choice" back to the mesmer trait lines.
      Right now there are obvious 'trait winners' and obvious 'dead traits' as well. You literally don't even need to make trait decisions when playing a mesmer anymore. They are basically made for you as long as you know how to read what the traits do and are familiar with the game.
      This wasn't always the case.
      .
    3. Make mesmer fun to play again.
      .
    4. Undo core mesmer trait nerfs since core mesmer was never meta since before HoT and never the problem to begin with, make the correct balancing decisions that should have been made a long time ago, and bring all the elites in the game in line with the cores.
      .
    5. Quite listening to streamers who don't know what they are talking about or present themselves as knowing more about a class then they do.
      .
    6. Bring back the people you banned or quite who wouldn't have been banned or quite if mesmer was handled correctly in the past to begin with.
      .
    7. Quite balancing based on popular vote or what is perceived as 'fun'. Fun doesn't equal balanced. You can make changes without lowering how powerful a class is.
      .
    8. Quite making broken promises or if you do so, apologize.
      "Chronomancy is the only specialization allowed access to this powerful effect" my butt.
      https://heartofthorns.guildwars2.com/game/specializations

    +1

    I always get a chuckle out of "its unfun to play against".

    Nothing in any game is "fun to play against". Theyre fun to kill, thats where the fun is. And if you get killed you keep not having fun same as before.

    I disagree. Really enjoyed dueling some builds like GS power mes or rangers before HoT. They've had telegraphed and balanced abilities, so if you got hit by a burst it was because you screwed up, and if you dodged the right things you were rewarded for it.

    I felt good when I had won, and I wasn't frustrated when I lost because I knew that I just got outplayed - but now I knew how that happened and what I needed to do differently so I was always looking forward to the next duel where I could improve the results.

    Now it's just a powercreeped nonstop spamfest where if you're not dodging/blocking 90% of the time you'll get oneshot by random things because even autoattacks can hit for 25% of my HP.

    You're free to go back to the old forum archieve and see that GS mesmer was largely not considered fun to fight, was complained about and asked to be nerfed quite significantly thoughout all of pre-hot.

    Sorry but your opinion falls into a very tiny minority.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • @witcher.3197 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @Xstein.2187 said:
    I don't even care about overall balance.
    FIRST they need to:

    1. Fix the blatant biasses present in the game. God, they are supposed to be professionals
      https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/74289/anets-favourite-child/p1
      .
    2. Bring "Trait Choice" back to the mesmer trait lines.
      Right now there are obvious 'trait winners' and obvious 'dead traits' as well. You literally don't even need to make trait decisions when playing a mesmer anymore. They are basically made for you as long as you know how to read what the traits do and are familiar with the game.
      This wasn't always the case.
      .
    3. Make mesmer fun to play again.
      .
    4. Undo core mesmer trait nerfs since core mesmer was never meta since before HoT and never the problem to begin with, make the correct balancing decisions that should have been made a long time ago, and bring all the elites in the game in line with the cores.
      .
    5. Quite listening to streamers who don't know what they are talking about or present themselves as knowing more about a class then they do.
      .
    6. Bring back the people you banned or quite who wouldn't have been banned or quite if mesmer was handled correctly in the past to begin with.
      .
    7. Quite balancing based on popular vote or what is perceived as 'fun'. Fun doesn't equal balanced. You can make changes without lowering how powerful a class is.
      .
    8. Quite making broken promises or if you do so, apologize.
      "Chronomancy is the only specialization allowed access to this powerful effect" my butt.
      https://heartofthorns.guildwars2.com/game/specializations

    +1

    I always get a chuckle out of "its unfun to play against".

    Nothing in any game is "fun to play against". Theyre fun to kill, thats where the fun is. And if you get killed you keep not having fun same as before.

    I disagree. Really enjoyed dueling some builds like GS power mes or rangers before HoT. They've had telegraphed and balanced abilities, so if you got hit it was because you screwed up, and if you dodged the right things you were rewarded for it.

    I felt good when I had won, and I wasn't frustrated when I lost because I knew that I just got outplayed - but now I knew how that happened and what I needed to do differently so I was always looking forward to the next duel where I could improve the results.

    Now it's just a powercreeped nonstop spamfest where if you're not dodging/blocking 90% of the time you'll get oneshot by random things because even autoattacks can hit for 25% of my HP.

    I really think this hinders newcomers and thus PvP population growth more than is often realized. Spammy, dumbed-down gameplay, though more accessible on its face, ironically makes the learning curve higher. It's harder to understand what's going on, what works and what doesn't, what killed you, and what to avoid with the hyper-paced, visual overload on screen. Telegraphs get overlapped, hidden, or otherwise lost in the visual noise. This leads to frustration and burnout. Only the most committed really stand a chance of deciphering most of what's going on. Also doesn't make for good spectating (RIP e-sports).

  • EnderzShadow.2506EnderzShadow.2506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:
    It would help if the currently power-crept stuff like Holo, SB, Rev, SLB, Scrapper, and maybe Scourge and FB were toned down. I would prefer reverse-power-creeping over more power-creeping as a means to level the playing field.

    TLDR
    Nerf every class but the one I play

    mhm, ok, sure, whatever you say, no after you, I insist, no really, please, be my guest,

  • TorQ.7041TorQ.7041 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 11, 2019

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @Jack.8124 said:

    @Eddbopkins.2630 said:
    Omg ur outa of meta for the 1st time in 7 years? Cant play this game no more....#sarcasm....how about u main a ele then u have the right to complain about being out of meta.

    I'm sad about ele too, but ATM mesmer is completely out of scene.. I hope anet balance ele too... This is not a counter balance post...

    For the most part Mesmer is so called "out of meta" because of poor mind state of most of its players. Mesmer has been broken for so so so long that most of them are no longer able to tell the difference between Broken OP and Normal, so now when its not pathetic ez mode they think it is not viable, while the truth is it is perfectly viable (some of its Meta builds at least) just no longer broken.

    Agreed. Tbh mesmer is only out of "meta" because of things like scrapper. Condi mes will absolutely wreck warrior and can do fair against rifle holo.

    The passive Condi dmg is still absolutely incredible. If you don't have consistent cleansing. You will be forced to leave node. But even then it's still viable as a Condi dps. If you watch ATs there are mesmers that just go. Stack Condi on and leave.

    It's not god like. Unlike before but it's absolutely playable.

    Spellbreaker has always had the tools to 100% stall out a condition mirage, even post phantasm rework when a number of mesmer abilities were super charged. Tthe tools that allowed Spellbreakers to stall out a condition mirage's damage out put were never nerfed. Heck, they only got buffed. Shake It Off was power crept back in July 2018. Berserker Stance was changed in November 2017 and it was a horizontal change that reduced it's duration and it's cooldown. And with the Last Stand trait you came out tiny bit ahead.

    It's just the fact of the matter that Spellbreaker always had the tools to completely stall out condition mirage. Don't believe me? Go watch the Mist Challenger's tournament. All of the game's best players coming together to compete over a $2000 prize pool including Rank 55 Dragons and Team USA facing off in the finals.

    This tournament happened after the phantasm rework super charged a lot of mesmer capabilities. Every time one of the condition mesmers went up against one of the spellbreakers it resulted in a perpetual stall out. Are you really going to call Misha and Zeromis trash mesmers who don't know how to think about playing and weren't putting in effort?

    What changed was that Arenanet power crept the hell out of Physical Skills. Bull's Rush, Rampage in particular and the Peak Performance trait. Suddenly every Spellbreaker found out with Magebane Tether they could casually toss out 10k Arcing Slices and Whirlind Blades, 6k Damage Bull's Rushes. And it turns out being able to thoughtlessly two shot most builds after ramping up some might even before you go into Rampage is more effective against everything that isn't a condition mirage enough to make the worse match up against that particular build, especially when that build is largely dead now.

    Spellbreakers can stall out condition mirages even now. They just chose to not run the build that does so in favor of better match ups against everything else since nothing runs condition damage anymore.

    Yeah no. Watch shorts. Watch him destroy warriors in p3 quite quickly. Warrior has 2 cleanses that's it even with thether u don't get enough healing to out sustain condi. There's no way it can sustain enough to stall out Condi mesmer. U are seriously making kitten up about 10k arching slice.

    Those warriors are strength warriors who aren't running the traits and utiliities they have that easily deal with condition mirage because it's better for them that they don't because no one runs condition damage anymore.

    I am a p2 warrior n I face mesmer at that level. I can stall for Abit of time but I am forced to leave.

    I can see the leaderboard right now. You aren't.

    Then you are obviously just making kitten up then. How can a warrior not run strength traits hit u for 10k?

    You're not reading my posts correctly. Im saying meta spellbreaker is giving up outsustaining condition mesmers in favor of those 10k crits. It's a deliberate choice.

    You are right in that I miss read.my mistake on that.

    Yes strength warrior is back because the likes of scrapper and prot Holo are here. But overall I believe that to be a good thing. Because now that you see warrior you can go mesmer. If you see engineer you can go warrior. And if you see mesmer you can scrapper.

    There are absolutely p1 and p2 mesmers I face all the time and I am forced to use scrapper. Where they can just out rotate. I still by that Condi mes is not dead. Just takes more knowledge now than before where you passively win fights.

    Strength spellbreaker is here because multiple patches thoughout 2018 power crept the strength tree and physicals. Spellbreakers were 1vXing holos and scrappers and mirages long before the strength buffs.

    I honestly believe you need to play warrior till 1600 to fully understand. It's not a easy 2 button hit win as u make it out to be. Especially not at 1600+

    Literally every player on every build thinks this way about their profession.

    Pretty much. Which is why I play something different all the time. I did thief unsuccessfully, mes,Holo,scrapper, war. Doing ranger next. I will go back to Condi mes and prove you can get to plat on it.

    That's respectable. But.. if you do it next season after everything else possibly gets nerfed, it's not quite the same as pulling it off last season. Different metas.

    I think that every one says "meta" as a defined term based on a web site that's curated by a few people, granted they are knowledgeable people. But that web site is not always true. Esp when it's not ATs. For example ranger was not meta. But there are several top 100 rangers that would absolutely destroy most players. And you don't find their build on this web site.

    You are some what right in that if you see meta scrapper and you are playing Condi mes you will have a hard time. But if there's only 1 scrapper and he camps your home. Then just go far. Either that or just switch out to something else. I regularly change out of my profession just for team comp, if I see 2 mirages and a necro hell no am I going warrior.

    It's not possible that every 1 of the players on other team have lots of cleanses. Another example was an AT game I watched on jawgeous's channel where the Condi mes's primary job is to basically put Condi on every one and move on.

    Anyway to boot. I don't believe Condi mes is unplayable. It depends on comp just like warrior. Albeit that yes warrior is far better at killing bunkers. But mes is far better at killing warrior.

  • Greetings from the core Engineer hell.

  • witcher.3197witcher.3197 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 11, 2019

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @witcher.3197 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @Xstein.2187 said:
    I don't even care about overall balance.
    FIRST they need to:

    1. Fix the blatant biasses present in the game. God, they are supposed to be professionals
      https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/74289/anets-favourite-child/p1
      .
    2. Bring "Trait Choice" back to the mesmer trait lines.
      Right now there are obvious 'trait winners' and obvious 'dead traits' as well. You literally don't even need to make trait decisions when playing a mesmer anymore. They are basically made for you as long as you know how to read what the traits do and are familiar with the game.
      This wasn't always the case.
      .
    3. Make mesmer fun to play again.
      .
    4. Undo core mesmer trait nerfs since core mesmer was never meta since before HoT and never the problem to begin with, make the correct balancing decisions that should have been made a long time ago, and bring all the elites in the game in line with the cores.
      .
    5. Quite listening to streamers who don't know what they are talking about or present themselves as knowing more about a class then they do.
      .
    6. Bring back the people you banned or quite who wouldn't have been banned or quite if mesmer was handled correctly in the past to begin with.
      .
    7. Quite balancing based on popular vote or what is perceived as 'fun'. Fun doesn't equal balanced. You can make changes without lowering how powerful a class is.
      .
    8. Quite making broken promises or if you do so, apologize.
      "Chronomancy is the only specialization allowed access to this powerful effect" my butt.
      https://heartofthorns.guildwars2.com/game/specializations

    +1

    I always get a chuckle out of "its unfun to play against".

    Nothing in any game is "fun to play against". Theyre fun to kill, thats where the fun is. And if you get killed you keep not having fun same as before.

    I disagree. Really enjoyed dueling some builds like GS power mes or rangers before HoT. They've had telegraphed and balanced abilities, so if you got hit by a burst it was because you screwed up, and if you dodged the right things you were rewarded for it.

    I felt good when I had won, and I wasn't frustrated when I lost because I knew that I just got outplayed - but now I knew how that happened and what I needed to do differently so I was always looking forward to the next duel where I could improve the results.

    Now it's just a powercreeped nonstop spamfest where if you're not dodging/blocking 90% of the time you'll get oneshot by random things because even autoattacks can hit for 25% of my HP.

    You're free to go back to the old forum archieve and see that GS mesmer was largely not considered fun to fight, was complained about and asked to be nerfed quite significantly thoughout all of pre-hot.

    Sorry but your opinion falls into a very tiny minority.

    On the forum I agree, people who play above silver 2 are the minority. Complaining about GS mes was nothing but a L2P problem. If you can't dodge a GS burst then you can't dodge anything. And before someone says "but they had 3 seconds of stealth" well, count to 3 or break LoS, or block, whatever. Not hard.

  • Twilight Tempest.7584Twilight Tempest.7584 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 11, 2019

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:
    It would help if the currently power-crept stuff like Holo, SB, Rev, SLB, Scrapper, and maybe Scourge and FB were toned down. I would prefer reverse-power-creeping over more power-creeping as a means to level the playing field.

    TLDR
    Nerf every class but the one I play

    FIFY:

    TLDR
    Nerf every class but the one I play that's still power-crept and hasn't already been toned down like the rest.

  • Daishi.6027Daishi.6027 Member ✭✭✭✭

    If mesmer was carried by build before, does that mean Rangers, Engies, and Wars are getting carried by their builds now?
    Having builds that have equal or more defensive options, and either high burst or more reliable damage?

    Does that mean thief, has been carried for years? Because until PoF dropped, and excluding S1 Chronobunk (which was gutted immediately) Mes was pretty much easily replaced in slot by thief if not Portal since pre HoT, and later double moa?

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Xstein.2187 said:
    I don't even care about overall balance.
    FIRST they need to:

    1. Fix the blatant biasses present in the game. God, they are supposed to be professionals
      https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/74289/anets-favourite-child/p1
      .
    2. Bring "Trait Choice" back to the mesmer trait lines.
      Right now there are obvious 'trait winners' and obvious 'dead traits' as well. You literally don't even need to make trait decisions when playing a mesmer anymore. They are basically made for you as long as you know how to read what the traits do and are familiar with the game.
      This wasn't always the case.
      .
    3. Make mesmer fun to play again.
      .
    4. Undo core mesmer trait nerfs since core mesmer was never meta since before HoT and never the problem to begin with, make the correct balancing decisions that should have been made a long time ago, and bring all the elites in the game in line with the cores.
      .
    5. Quite listening to streamers who don't know what they are talking about or present themselves as knowing more about a class then they do.
      .
    6. Bring back the people you banned or quite who wouldn't have been banned or quite if mesmer was handled correctly in the past to begin with.
      .
    7. Quite balancing based on popular vote or what is perceived as 'fun'. Fun doesn't equal balanced. You can make changes without lowering how powerful a class is.
      .
    8. Quite making broken promises or if you do so, apologize.
      "Chronomancy is the only specialization allowed access to this powerful effect" my butt.
      https://heartofthorns.guildwars2.com/game/specializations

    About the fun to play part, may i add, make it fun to play against? Thanks

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    So classes in this game get out of metas when they loose the carry damage output or gets harder for bad players to play???

©2010–2018 ArenaNet, LLC. All rights reserved. Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2, Heart of Thorns, Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire, ArenaNet, NCSOFT, the Interlocking NC Logo, and all associated logos and designs are trademarks or registered trademarks of NCSOFT Corporation. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.