how do you beat good guild groups other than blobbing them down? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

how do you beat good guild groups other than blobbing them down?

MalinBlume.9314MalinBlume.9314 Member ✭✭
edited June 11, 2019 in WvW

currently on JQ linked with AR and we're facing FC and HoD

I want to know some insights from some previous commanders/regular core players wondering how to BEAT or at least fight better against this group with these components:

  • full comms
  • aware players
  • and a group with a fair share of supports (firebrands, and scrappers, and maybe other variations)

just want to know what you guys think on how to fight the groups listed below.

starting with the people my server is facing rn:
HoD has one good guild that I know of and that's Midnight Mafia never fought them

but as for FC, they have some guilds that run small but somehow manage to just absolutely blow up our pugmanders and sometimes even our full 50 in comms:

  • TBT (they are super small each time but extremely good)
  • PMA (they ran open yesterday and absolutely farmed 4 of our really good commanders, the core was solid)
  • VR (haven't really ran this week but I'll just mention because when I was on TC, the one thing I remember was Maguuma's VR casually farming our EBG keep like its nothing)
  • Tkx (they had like 13-15 people but ran like 6 scourges and blew up 42 people in squad last night)
  • there are other groups but they probably haven't tagged this week
  • eXa (I haven't really seen them run small but I do recall them being on FC and actually being one of the really good guilds who used portal bomb really well)

I'll also mention these other guilds which are just extremely broken... (as in skilled)

  • Wavy (well.. this one's pretty self-explanatory. These guys are just extremely good, they won two GvG tourneys and managed to get 5-0 twice in the finals. even more to say they managed to beat really extraordinary groups like VR, RISE, TBT)
  • DED (guys recently moved to BP alliance apparently and have been rumored to be "farming Cookie"-- which is actually a feat because runs massive)
  • RISE (I have to say this group is still solid. though i haven't seen them in GvG's. their experience in T1 has really tempered their abilities)
  • XVX (these guys are also quite good along with RISE. and are full of experienced players)
  • KEK (i can never take these guys seriously because of their name but they're skilled)
  • Hate (bullyfoot mostly blobs nowadays but they're still quite solid)
  • VII
  • DI5
  • BP

Here are some really decent groups I know on my server:

  • SF (they run open and the commander's good, but when they run closed they have the basics down and have a really good comp (as in rev heavy))
  • RED (they have some very aware players and insightful ones)
  • VP (VP runs closed most of the time but I saw them beat back VR a couple of times in a scrimmage on our BL)
  • OnS (onslaught has just been known to be really decent, even though they run big, I do believe they have the basics down and even more)
<1

Comments

  • easy. Don't stand in the red circles

  • EASY for you to say until 5 necros strip you of all your stab, pull you on a mesmer, knock around while getting destroyed by 5 different red circles that are almost in the same place. and the same thing happens to half of your group.

    and when you manage to survive, you can only give stab to the players who are support and manage to survive -- ... no dmg

  • From a regular player pov:

    As much as it's loathed among players, pin snipe squad might be your answer. If they don't have a backup that can immediately take over most guilds will fold once com goes down/dead. This is what separates good from bad. If the com is mes then pin snipe will be more difficult since distortion/stealth can throw off + avoid incoming snipes but if they're firebrand then feel free to chain a few soulbeast's unblockable + sic em. It doesn't necessarily mean produce a down, but enough to chunk off a large portion of HP in hopes that they backpedal out of position. Good boon uptime (protection) + sources of dmg reduction will render the pew pew a little less effective though. Good luck.

  • never really thought of the above HAHA. but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do to WIN.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Just dodge.

    Or, in a surprise twist, bring an equally good group to fight them. I really dont understand why this is such a mystery. Its just the same as Xv1, on a larger scale - if you get totally destroyed.... have a better player fight him or bring even more players. Is that always possible to do? No. Of course not. There may not even be any guild or pug raids on. But 90% of the time when I see these "good" guilds come in and level the place, its because my own server fails at meeting them. Often because our guilds want dibs and then get crushed one by one until someone ragequit, rather than work together.

    Anyway, I dont even understand why this thread exist. How can it exist? This forum says zergbusting is impossible and WvW is dead. The claim that 15 people blew up 42 is clearly an impossibility since the 42 would just insta revive any downed because super OP downed state make it impossible for lower numbers to win no matter how skilled they are, right? If this thread is true then it invalidates their claims.

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭
    1. Make sure your pugmanders are not running berserker type setups, their priority should be to live as long as possible not do maximum damage.
    2. Most guilds have two advantages, coordinated bombs with strips, and organized groups for better front line and boon balling. Certain groups like vr will do a lot of mesmer pulls into bombs, especially on walls, others use veils a lot.
    3. Your pugmanders have to make sure not to lead people directly into these bombs, and pugs need to watch enemy movements and dodge appropriately. And for the love of all that is holy, if you're going to run from a fight do it early and don't just show up pretending you're gonna fight then run and let your entire zerg get eaten the entire run back to the nearest owned structure, it's the most embarrassing thing to see.
    4. Bring boon strips... lots of it... like a lot... like... really.. a.. lot. To even have a chance at denting those groups. And if you don't have enough of that and mostly rangers.... well.. pin snipe... they should at least be good at that.

    Another derailing post. ^^
    EBG North Keep: One of the village residents will now flee if their home is destroyed!
    || Stealth is a Terribad Mechanic ||

  • ArchonWing.9480ArchonWing.9480 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 11, 2019

    You don't. Most of these guilds are experienced enough to not fall for clouding/lure/choke tactics that work on standard pug blobs. All you can really do is kill their pugs that try to hang off of them, but that doesn't mean you're doing anything. Your best bet is to bore them to death with hit and run PPT so they log early. I guess you could hire a pin snipe party.

    A lot of people aren't going to be able to beat most of these, much less give you advice on how. I guess you could try to practice more with people you trust, form a guild and try to seek challenging fights constantly but the amount of people willing to put in that kind of effort in this stage of the game is well.... limited.

    Oh yea, kitten, if they've been in your keep for 30 minutes and not taking it; they're intentionally doing that so you'll run in and die over and over again. Please stop falling for that.

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The ones that run fat like 20-30 members, you won't be able to beat with just pugs, unless there's also a guild in there as the frontline, but even then...
    The smaller guilds 10-20 can be beaten with pugs, seen it happen to some of the those guilds mentioned.

    Another derailing post. ^^
    EBG North Keep: One of the village residents will now flee if their home is destroyed!
    || Stealth is a Terribad Mechanic ||

  • rng.1024rng.1024 Member ✭✭✭✭

    There are 5 components you will need:

    • A good bomb
    • Just enough sustain to survive one
    • Players with self-awareness and skill
    • A commander who knows when to push and when to resustain, aswell as good positioning
    • Metaoptimal build/comp setup

    With these you can take on bigger yet less organized groups with some effort, however at some point the number advantage will come into play and if they get a chance to resustain your job will be 2× harder from there. The best use of this kind of group is to help the zone commander deal with bigger groups or fight off other similarly sized groups.

  • @ArchonWing.9480 yeah, it is quite hard to cloud most of these groups. And yeah... getting farmed in EBG keep. FC had a 2.0-3.0 KDR in EU timezone simply by farming our keep and HoD's and the pugs who sadly kept going in yesterday as well QQ. Is it possible, with enough AC's and other defensive sieges to repel a decent group of 50?

    @XenesisII.1540 Yeah, #4 is a big one I've noticed our groups have been lacking. On public raids, I see we have like 6 spellbreakers which are really good for boonstrips, but they are instantly corrupted. If it's a quick fight with our comps I'm confident we can take these groups out but in the long term, we'll get out-corrupted with the bubble cooldown being definitely longer than that OP Devouring Darkness and Axe 3 on Scourge.

    @Dawdler.8521 Yeah dodging is a big thing. Many players I notice play with like 60 FPS and less than 60 ping... but have brain lag. And for that group that beat the 42, it was within chokes a couple of times and their damage just synced really well. I've seen groups like DED and VP pull it off too with like 15 people.
    Sure they can res on the spot but if it's a tight space and everyone's getting bursted by a synced bomb then well.. it's over. (and if you think about the shade radius, hits 10 people max and wells are pulsing)... and that damage is even worse when they got a really good bubble on you and they bomb you with absolutely no boons, no stab so you're getting feared around with their spike and no time to react to the downs to MI.
    have to admit though, our group had like 3 soulbeasts which were useless . . .

    Thanks for all the answers though, I'll keep it mind and be sure to pass it on

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 11, 2019

    @MalinBlume.9314 said:
    EASY for you to say until 5 necros strip you of all your stab, pull you on a mesmer, knock around while getting destroyed by 5 different red circles that are almost in the same place. and the same thing happens to half of your group.

    and when you manage to survive, you can only give stab to the players who are support and manage to survive -- ... no dmg

    If you are being engaged upon from a smoke, you were not paying attention to the enemy group smoking.

    If you were not engaged from a smoke and had 5 necros strip you, you were out of position.

    Smaller static groups have the advantage in that they are often on voice communication, organized, concentrated and in sync. Their main disadvantage is numbers versus a full blob. Depending on group size, you can do some of the following:

    • more defensive setup classes. Run celestial over berserker on necromancers/elementalists for example. Obviously you are not in control what other people join your public squad with
    • organize groups. 1 support firebrand and 1 support tempest or scrapper per group if possible
    • stack tight. If you are engaged by a group half your size, their attacks will be shared across more players. Obviously if you are not stacked, the initial bomb will tear apart part of you squad removing your number advantage
    • practice and training. small explanation on which skills to use when. not every player understands their class. reminding your guardians that their group is relying on stability can go a long way
    • remove useless classes. This is the part where you remove rangers, thiefs, mesmers and other non viable blob classes (1-2 mesmers are fine for veil and portals, 1-2 thiefs are fine for scouting and cleanup, flex slots can go to unconventional dps classes)

    In general, depending on how good the opposing static is, you just might be powerless. We are talking public incompetence versus organized groups.

  • Dediggefedde.4961Dediggefedde.4961 Member ✭✭✭

    Usually it's pretty simple.
    if the enemy is skilled you either need to become skilled as well (guild-zerg), compensate with numbers (public) or play with tactics and terrain (public/guilds).
    In a guild you can improve players skills by recommendations, trainings or supervisors. In publics you can improve awareness and skills only somewhat be recommendations and pre-commands.
    Choice of terrain and tactics, such as smoke-blasts, veils, necro-ports, superspeed, portal-bombs, or just hiding around a corner can give an enorm advantage, but is easy to fail and requires commander skills.

  • reddie.5861reddie.5861 Member ✭✭✭

    cloud... if u cant beat it u cloud all around them. if u all die on the spot then obviously u go cloud so only 1 or 2 die while ur hammering on em from all sides.

  • Honest John.4673Honest John.4673 Member ✭✭✭

    Hey kid, wanna join a guild?

    also

    who is this DI5 guild I've never heard of them, how did they get a numeral in their guild name?

  • EremiteAngel.9765EremiteAngel.9765 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @MalinBlume.9314 said:
    currently on JQ linked with AR and we're facing FC and HoD

    I want to know some insights from some previous commanders/regular core players wondering how to BEAT or at least fight better against this group with these components:

    • full comms
    • aware players
    • and a group with a fair share of supports (firebrands, and scrappers, and maybe other variations)

    just want to know what you guys think on how to fight the groups listed below.

    starting with the people my server is facing rn:
    HoD has one good guild that I know of and that's Midnight Mafia never fought them

    but as for FC, they have some guilds that run small but somehow manage to just absolutely blow up our pugmanders and sometimes even our full 50 in comms:

    • TBT (they are super small each time but extremely good)
    • PMA (they ran open yesterday and absolutely farmed 4 of our really good commanders, the core was solid)
    • VR (haven't really ran this week but I'll just mention because when I was on TC, the one thing I remember was Maguuma's VR casually farming our EBG keep like its nothing)
    • Tkx (they had like 13-15 people but ran like 6 scourges and blew up 42 people in squad last night)
    • there are other groups but they probably haven't tagged this week
    • eXa (I haven't really seen them run small but I do recall them being on FC and actually being one of the really good guilds who used portal bomb really well)

    I'll also mention these other guilds which are just extremely broken... (as in skilled)

    • Wavy (well.. this one's pretty self-explanatory. These guys are just extremely good, they won two GvG tourneys and managed to get 5-0 twice in the finals. even more to say they managed to beat really extraordinary groups like VR, RISE, TBT)
    • DED (guys recently moved to BP alliance apparently and have been rumored to be "farming Cookie"-- which is actually a feat because runs massive)
    • RISE (I have to say this group is still solid. though i haven't seen them in GvG's. their experience in T1 has really tempered their abilities)
    • XVX (these guys are also quite good along with RISE. and are full of experienced players)
    • KEK (i can never take these guys seriously because of their name but they're skilled)
    • Hate (bullyfoot mostly blobs nowadays but they're still quite solid)
    • VII
    • DI5
    • BP

    Here are some really decent groups I know on my server:

    • SF (they run open and the commander's good, but when they run closed they have the basics down and have a really good comp (as in rev heavy))
    • RED (they have some very aware players and insightful ones)
    • VP (VP runs closed most of the time but I saw them beat back VR a couple of times in a scrimmage on our BL)
    • OnS (onslaught has just been known to be really decent, even though they run big, I do believe they have the basics down and even more)

    Those guilds you mention in FC are indeed strong.
    And at least half of those other guilds you listed should be on BG/link.
    You fight good guilds with good guilds.
    Unfortunately, when you stack good guilds on one or two server...

  • Honest John.4673Honest John.4673 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 11, 2019

    @EremiteAngel.9765 said:
    Those guilds you mention in FC are indeed strong.
    And at least half of those other guilds you listed should be on BG/link.
    You fight good guilds with good guilds.

    He listed 9 guilds that aren't on his server or FC, only 2 of which are on BG

    Unfortunately, when you stack good guilds on one or two server...

    They actually get to fight eachother with regularity? Or should we all destack with barely any guilds left (relatively speaking) so we can maybe get 1 fight against another good guild once a week (if that) when the schedules, matchups and planets align.

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    With a bigger group while they’re AFK.

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 11, 2019

    @EremiteAngel.9765 said:

    @MalinBlume.9314 said:
    currently on JQ linked with AR and we're facing FC and HoD

    I want to know some insights from some previous commanders/regular core players wondering how to BEAT or at least fight better against this group with these components:

    • full comms
    • aware players
    • and a group with a fair share of supports (firebrands, and scrappers, and maybe other variations)

    just want to know what you guys think on how to fight the groups listed below.

    starting with the people my server is facing rn:
    HoD has one good guild that I know of and that's Midnight Mafia never fought them

    but as for FC, they have some guilds that run small but somehow manage to just absolutely blow up our pugmanders and sometimes even our full 50 in comms:

    • TBT (they are super small each time but extremely good)
    • PMA (they ran open yesterday and absolutely farmed 4 of our really good commanders, the core was solid)
    • VR (haven't really ran this week but I'll just mention because when I was on TC, the one thing I remember was Maguuma's VR casually farming our EBG keep like its nothing)
    • Tkx (they had like 13-15 people but ran like 6 scourges and blew up 42 people in squad last night)
    • there are other groups but they probably haven't tagged this week
    • eXa (I haven't really seen them run small but I do recall them being on FC and actually being one of the really good guilds who used portal bomb really well)

    I'll also mention these other guilds which are just extremely broken... (as in skilled)

    • Wavy (well.. this one's pretty self-explanatory. These guys are just extremely good, they won two GvG tourneys and managed to get 5-0 twice in the finals. even more to say they managed to beat really extraordinary groups like VR, RISE, TBT)
    • DED (guys recently moved to BP alliance apparently and have been rumored to be "farming Cookie"-- which is actually a feat because runs massive)
    • RISE (I have to say this group is still solid. though i haven't seen them in GvG's. their experience in T1 has really tempered their abilities)
    • XVX (these guys are also quite good along with RISE. and are full of experienced players)
    • KEK (i can never take these guys seriously because of their name but they're skilled)
    • Hate (bullyfoot mostly blobs nowadays but they're still quite solid)
    • VII
    • DI5
    • BP

    Here are some really decent groups I know on my server:

    • SF (they run open and the commander's good, but when they run closed they have the basics down and have a really good comp (as in rev heavy))
    • RED (they have some very aware players and insightful ones)
    • VP (VP runs closed most of the time but I saw them beat back VR a couple of times in a scrimmage on our BL)
    • OnS (onslaught has just been known to be really decent, even though they run big, I do believe they have the basics down and even more)

    Those guilds you mention in FC are indeed strong.
    And at least half of those other guilds you listed should be on BG/link.
    You fight good guilds with good guilds.
    Unfortunately, when you stack good guilds on one or two server...

    Why post factually incorrect information?

    Is it to further the BG is evil narrative?

    And if you don’t know, why post?

    Man... I never thought I’d want a downvote button..,

  • Jayden Reese.9542Jayden Reese.9542 Member ✭✭✭

    I don't know why you made a list. Fighting each one is exactly the same. (80 percent fb scourge rev scrapper) Barrier healing spam run up and down corridors hoping 8 pugs follow and turn and burn till the whole map is bored to death. Somehow always on when no equatable guilds on the other servers are running or magically on a different map all farming pugs. In a casual mode where 80 percent of the base don't gaf they run with every advantage you can think of. Food/utility discord timed coordinated pushes buffs w/e broken op spec gets added like the 5x the scrappers vs a couple months ago. Most likely they even got 18 +5 infusions. Sometimes you got enuff or good enuff pugs to beat them. Other times you are outmatched. Pugs go back 100 times even when you know they are in your keep outer closed and have no supply. You try and say stop getting farmed they can't even build siege but pugs love to get farmed. All you can do is watch the guild group run by and pick off their pugs on the back line. Lots of times even tho it may be detested having a few sitting on mounts to instantly kill the couple downs you get from clouding turns the battle. Other then that just hope someday these big bad coordinated guilds will man up and seek out other big bad coordinated guilds instead of pug farming all day.

  • EremiteAngel.9765EremiteAngel.9765 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @EremiteAngel.9765 said:

    @MalinBlume.9314 said:
    currently on JQ linked with AR and we're facing FC and HoD

    I want to know some insights from some previous commanders/regular core players wondering how to BEAT or at least fight better against this group with these components:

    • full comms
    • aware players
    • and a group with a fair share of supports (firebrands, and scrappers, and maybe other variations)

    just want to know what you guys think on how to fight the groups listed below.

    starting with the people my server is facing rn:
    HoD has one good guild that I know of and that's Midnight Mafia never fought them

    but as for FC, they have some guilds that run small but somehow manage to just absolutely blow up our pugmanders and sometimes even our full 50 in comms:

    • TBT (they are super small each time but extremely good)
    • PMA (they ran open yesterday and absolutely farmed 4 of our really good commanders, the core was solid)
    • VR (haven't really ran this week but I'll just mention because when I was on TC, the one thing I remember was Maguuma's VR casually farming our EBG keep like its nothing)
    • Tkx (they had like 13-15 people but ran like 6 scourges and blew up 42 people in squad last night)
    • there are other groups but they probably haven't tagged this week
    • eXa (I haven't really seen them run small but I do recall them being on FC and actually being one of the really good guilds who used portal bomb really well)

    I'll also mention these other guilds which are just extremely broken... (as in skilled)

    • Wavy (well.. this one's pretty self-explanatory. These guys are just extremely good, they won two GvG tourneys and managed to get 5-0 twice in the finals. even more to say they managed to beat really extraordinary groups like VR, RISE, TBT)
    • DED (guys recently moved to BP alliance apparently and have been rumored to be "farming Cookie"-- which is actually a feat because runs massive)
    • RISE (I have to say this group is still solid. though i haven't seen them in GvG's. their experience in T1 has really tempered their abilities)
    • XVX (these guys are also quite good along with RISE. and are full of experienced players)
    • KEK (i can never take these guys seriously because of their name but they're skilled)
    • Hate (bullyfoot mostly blobs nowadays but they're still quite solid)
    • VII
    • DI5
    • BP

    Here are some really decent groups I know on my server:

    • SF (they run open and the commander's good, but when they run closed they have the basics down and have a really good comp (as in rev heavy))
    • RED (they have some very aware players and insightful ones)
    • VP (VP runs closed most of the time but I saw them beat back VR a couple of times in a scrimmage on our BL)
    • OnS (onslaught has just been known to be really decent, even though they run big, I do believe they have the basics down and even more)

    Those guilds you mention in FC are indeed strong.
    And at least half of those other guilds you listed should be on BG/link.
    You fight good guilds with good guilds.
    Unfortunately, when you stack good guilds on one or two server...

    Why post factually incorrect information?

    Is it to further the BG is evil narrative?

    And if you don’t know, why post?

    Man... I never thought I’d want a downvote button..,

    I hope for your health's sake that you are commenting with an even emotion =D
    Hopefully you're not getting emotional over something or someone that is of little consequence in your life.
    Of course, if you just meant to be a white knight and be critical towards me, please allow me to direct you to this thread.
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/78559/tips-to-manage-salt-and-toxicity-in-wvw

  • SloRules.3560SloRules.3560 Member ✭✭✭

    Get good...

  • Tiawal.2351Tiawal.2351 Member ✭✭✭

    @MalinBlume.9314 said:
    how to BEAT or at least fight better against

    One step at a time. Don't expect to win, that will happen later -- weeks, months maybe years... Now just fight them, and focus on getting better. Consider yourself lucky when there's something difficult to fight, something that can't be beaten easily. Improving is the most fun, enjoy it.

    If you need specific advices, find experienced players (who are good at doing it, beware of fakes) and ask questions. Learn from friends and enemies. Consider using meta builds and composition, they are better than nothing when starting, but don't be afraid to try out new things, keeping only what works.

    To avoid frustration, know your players and be clear on what you want: some players just want to win, they won't follow for long otherwise. Others just want to cap things, they don't want to waste time with fights, while others don't mind doing a bit of everything. And then there are those who just want a challenge, they won't leave after a loss. You can't please all of these, don't be confused when half of squad leaves after a wipe, that' normal. That's how you can find out who is who. If there aren't enough fighters, you may need to mix it with a bit of PPT to keep numbers high enough, just know that in a real fight those extra are just "meat- shields", only those who love to fight will get better and contribute more in time.

    Not knowing how and still fighting against better groups, is the greatest challenge. Maybe is too much, depends on how much challenge you want. If you don't find it fun, just give up - no shame in it. Instead leading, find a good group -- not to be carried by them as too many do, but to learn form them for a time. Will be far easier to lead after knowing what to do. Will still be a real challenge, but at least not an impossible one. Unless you love the impossible, in which case good luck and have fun!

  • @Cyninja.2954
    Yes, you're right haha. Most of the time we should be paying attention to the stealths. Actually, what I realized just now is what these groups do when WE stealth is they have an scrapper or two literally on us spamming reveal making our stealth useless. Perhaps it is meta to do the same HAHA, but it's definitely working.

    @Honest John.4673
    Di5 is on Blackgate I believe. Not sure if it's Di5 or DiS, but I remember facing them when AR vs. BG and they were pretty good against OnS.

    @Tiawal.2351
    Yeah man, believe this reply has a deep message in being patient and all of this being in a game. I am a competitive person and I strive to be better... (which would also increase the efficiency of getting bags). Part of the reason why I like WvW over PVE is because you have to--in most cases-- think of the ways you're going to get bags instead of following a commander like a robot. I feel a sense of accomplishment when defeating others. But you're right, it doesn't come over night and... having these good groups to fight is probably one of the best content right now. Imagine a game without really strong enemies and you would W key everyone XD.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 11, 2019

    have every one in each party target and focus a different enemy fb

    don't charge without at least one bar of endurance and weapon swap up for the double dodge

    try not to dump everything into one bomb, harder to do with pugs but try to do at least two bombs each push

    don't be too aggressive, count their dodges (and yours), keep in mind your bomb cd's

    run meta comps, if a party doesn't have stab try to give them at least an off meta support (like tempest or druid if there is one) and have them try to all focus down one person at a time while clouding (have every party sort out who is gonna be the target caller), be positive, don't tunnel vision or try and fail over and over

    The horror...…….the horror...…….the horror...…….

  • MalinBlume.9314MalinBlume.9314 Member ✭✭
    edited June 11, 2019

    I notice that dodging is a very common answer here too and I agree--especially in a long term fight. For glassy specs like scourge (which you absolutely need to dodge and survive to do damage later on), is it preferable to take dual superior sigil of energy over other sigils--if not on one weapon.

    [this is for like a long term fight situation or GvG]

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @MalinBlume.9314 said:
    I notice that dodging is a very common answer here too and I agree--especially in a long term fight. For glassy specs like scourge (which you absolutely need to dodge and survive to do damage later on), is it preferable to take dual superior sigil of energy over other sigils--if not on one weapon.

    [this is for like a long term fight situation or GvG]

    everyone should be running double energy.
    you can even go with double stamina to boost your survivability a ton if you want.

    The horror...…….the horror...…….the horror...…….

  • SkyShroud.2865SkyShroud.2865 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 11, 2019

    Blob them smartly.
    Throw spellbreakers in to bubble one after another and cloud them from every direction, pull their players immediately after their stab went off.
    Have a lot of ranger pin snipe the tag.
    However, while is easy to think of a way to kill, it isn't easy to find the right people to carry out the strategy.
    However, while you can blob them, it doesn't stop them to blob up with pugs later on, eventually you still gonna lose out anyway, it isn't hard to find numbers on prime time, especially when you already got a chunk of people from guild itself.

    Founder & Leader of Equinox Solstice [TIME], a Singapore-Based International PvX Guild
    Henge of Denravi Server
    www.gw2time.com

    --

    Explanations of WvW Structures & Populations Issues

  • Honest John.4673Honest John.4673 Member ✭✭✭

    Yeah man, believe this reply has a deep message in being patient and all of this being in a game. I am a competitive person and I strive to be better... (which would also increase the efficiency of getting bags). Part of the reason why I like WvW over PVE is because you have to--in most cases-- think of the ways you're going to get bags instead of following a commander like a robot. I feel a sense of accomplishment when defeating others. But you're right, it doesn't come over night and... having these good groups to fight is probably one of the best content right now. Imagine a game without really strong enemies and you would W key everyone XD.

    No one actually cares about the bags, they're just a symbolic representation of the kills you get.

    But, if you're actually serious about being competitive and striving to get better then the next logical step would be to go ahead and join one of these guilds. There's only so much you can learn from bugging the PUG Comm or randos in squad.

    Apart from upgrading yourself from being a nameless, faceless pug in a random zerg, joining a guild gives you the tools you need to get better. Plenty will be happy to provide builds (and the materials needed to make them), footage review, and all the tips and tricks required to improve your gameplay. Not to mention comped squads and voice comms for coordination.

    Join one that'll take you in and cares about your progress as a player. Find one with a proven track record at this. If you don't see results, or feel like you/the guild is stagnating, join a different one. Get to know the larger wvw guild community, and the guild you're in, should you choose to join one. You'll reap tons of rewards, and yes, bags.

    The longer you've been at an improved (and continually improving) skill level than your average pug, and the longer you've been raiding as a part of a tight knit guild, the more fun you'll have and you'll never want to go back to being a pug again.

  • shiri.4257shiri.4257 Member ✭✭✭

    1) join the server with the guilds you like the most.
    2) join all the guilds so you can be part of the shared player base and properly chest thump
    3) learn the mechanics with said guilds
    4) When you start losing in wvw, make up your own game mode and get a GvG tatoo (it adds +100% wvw dodge roll)
    5) Worst case scenario; transfer and reform with same player base.

    Spectre [VII] - Wood League Champion. Making "fight guilds" stack on higher tiers since 2013.
    Wood League News Network [WLNN]- www.twitch.tv/shirirx

  • Noha.3749Noha.3749 Member ✭✭✭

    TBH

    Fighting ~10-20 enemies that stick tight to eachother, havin 50% supports, some utility champs (chronos etc) and some dps is just boring.
    They usually just camp somewere near spawn before/after primetime and sure they do get some kills and makes life annoying for randoms.

    These small deathstars get countered by either getting surrounded by range dps, you dont really need more numbers but you need to strategically pop their CDs and wither them down. Important is that you dont close in on them since thats where they shine, keep surrounding, dont just stand in a loose groupformation and get run down by them. Also MAKE SURE you kill their downs, have some random fella just run in and finish with kitty or its all for nothing.

    Other option is:
    Get a better deathstar.
    Get better boonstrip and corrupts and bring the deeps. Tell the randoms (rangers/teefs etc. that you find around) to focus down on specific targets while you rip and distract them.

  • Joey.2769Joey.2769 Member ✭✭

    Do you mean DIS? And what about bear, I heard they are beary good.

  • Farout.8207Farout.8207 Member ✭✭✭

    that bear guild is scary.

    ~Cleetus

  • Tiawal.2351Tiawal.2351 Member ✭✭✭

    It's good asking, but in the end there's a limit how much a commander can do. Easiest way to win is by getting better players, leading badly may still get some of them killed (and they may stop following after a while), but newbies/bad players vs. experienced/good players is a no contest, unless you can outnumber them by far, and even then only with players who still know which skill to use and when, and have fairly useful builds (and then they are almost good)

    There are no tricks that anyone could share here and aren't already known by the groups you would fight, so they can easily counter it. These aren't fair fights at all. Same numbers AND same quality would be, or less quality one side and more numbers the other, but numbers alone can't counter endlessly because map limit. Outnumbering them can help, IF your players can survive enough while also doing enough damage to kill them... so we are back to playing quality again, because numbers alone means just giving more bags. Many newbies can't even target, they don't hit anything. And some old players aren't better either. Not everybody bothers to learn how to, best case they just press buttons randomly and expect to win, because sometimes they do - when there are others carrying them. Get a lot of these and a win becomes impossible: you won't have sustain when is needed and you either won't have damage or will be spread all over, killing none.

    That's why decent commanders don't allow just anyone into a squad if they want to win fights. Of course that means that the commander is at least decent, but that's another story.

  • Farout.8207Farout.8207 Member ✭✭✭

    beary scary

    ~Cleetus

  • shiri.4257shiri.4257 Member ✭✭✭

    @Joey.2769 said:
    Do you mean DIS? And what about bear, I heard they are beary good.

    better yet, ask joey to carry your squad from spawn.

    Spectre [VII] - Wood League Champion. Making "fight guilds" stack on higher tiers since 2013.
    Wood League News Network [WLNN]- www.twitch.tv/shirirx

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @EremiteAngel.9765 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @EremiteAngel.9765 said:

    @MalinBlume.9314 said:
    currently on JQ linked with AR and we're facing FC and HoD

    I want to know some insights from some previous commanders/regular core players wondering how to BEAT or at least fight better against this group with these components:

    • full comms
    • aware players
    • and a group with a fair share of supports (firebrands, and scrappers, and maybe other variations)

    just want to know what you guys think on how to fight the groups listed below.

    starting with the people my server is facing rn:
    HoD has one good guild that I know of and that's Midnight Mafia never fought them

    but as for FC, they have some guilds that run small but somehow manage to just absolutely blow up our pugmanders and sometimes even our full 50 in comms:

    • TBT (they are super small each time but extremely good)
    • PMA (they ran open yesterday and absolutely farmed 4 of our really good commanders, the core was solid)
    • VR (haven't really ran this week but I'll just mention because when I was on TC, the one thing I remember was Maguuma's VR casually farming our EBG keep like its nothing)
    • Tkx (they had like 13-15 people but ran like 6 scourges and blew up 42 people in squad last night)
    • there are other groups but they probably haven't tagged this week
    • eXa (I haven't really seen them run small but I do recall them being on FC and actually being one of the really good guilds who used portal bomb really well)

    I'll also mention these other guilds which are just extremely broken... (as in skilled)

    • Wavy (well.. this one's pretty self-explanatory. These guys are just extremely good, they won two GvG tourneys and managed to get 5-0 twice in the finals. even more to say they managed to beat really extraordinary groups like VR, RISE, TBT)
    • DED (guys recently moved to BP alliance apparently and have been rumored to be "farming Cookie"-- which is actually a feat because runs massive)
    • RISE (I have to say this group is still solid. though i haven't seen them in GvG's. their experience in T1 has really tempered their abilities)
    • XVX (these guys are also quite good along with RISE. and are full of experienced players)
    • KEK (i can never take these guys seriously because of their name but they're skilled)
    • Hate (bullyfoot mostly blobs nowadays but they're still quite solid)
    • VII
    • DI5
    • BP

    Here are some really decent groups I know on my server:

    • SF (they run open and the commander's good, but when they run closed they have the basics down and have a really good comp (as in rev heavy))
    • RED (they have some very aware players and insightful ones)
    • VP (VP runs closed most of the time but I saw them beat back VR a couple of times in a scrimmage on our BL)
    • OnS (onslaught has just been known to be really decent, even though they run big, I do believe they have the basics down and even more)

    Those guilds you mention in FC are indeed strong.
    And at least half of those other guilds you listed should be on BG/link.
    You fight good guilds with good guilds.
    Unfortunately, when you stack good guilds on one or two server...

    Why post factually incorrect information?

    Is it to further the BG is evil narrative?

    And if you don’t know, why post?

    Man... I never thought I’d want a downvote button..,

    I hope for your health's sake that you are commenting with an even emotion =D
    Hopefully you're not getting emotional over something or someone that is of little consequence in your life.
    Of course, if you just meant to be a white knight and be critical towards me, please allow me to direct you to this thread.
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/78559/tips-to-manage-salt-and-toxicity-in-wvw

    Hmm? I just figured pointing out ignorance when needed is important.

    🙂

    Hope your day gets better!

  • Ni In.6578Ni In.6578 Member ✭✭✭

    It takes practice with others who want to try hard. You need to understand that criticism of your play is not personal -- the cmdr wants you to git gud. To counter most of these groups will require tight coordination which is something you're not going to find in your average group and random tags.

    TL;DR: Git gud; don't die.

    Oh and if you want the authoritative list of top guilds, take a look at https://saltybeavers.com/.

    [VII] Desert Spectre - Declared Best NA Guild by Grimaldi
    Crystal Desert Consul Member and President of Scrubs; declared most toxic server NA by Z E Y
    [VII] wants fights! Please bring your pug rangers for UD progress.

  • MalinBlume.9314MalinBlume.9314 Member ✭✭
    edited June 11, 2019

    yeah, I'm seeing commonality from everyone here -- forming up a guild and improving with them with players who seek improvement will be nice

    and yeah as for the above I remember those guilds are quite good, especially in 2017-2018, that I saw from before haha. I just put my own list there from the guilds i noticed have been active and just been nice these days

    NO salt meant ... but idk about DOC there XD

  • Chaba.5410Chaba.5410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Clearly the answer is to build a ton of arrow carts.

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    sometimes, you just have to accept that some players are better than you.

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • MalinBlume.9314MalinBlume.9314 Member ✭✭
    edited June 11, 2019

    @Chaba.5410 ... welll as much as I'd like to... it's just boring playing siege monkey for 2 hours.

    I genuinely think this game has a really good combat system perhaps even more than BDO (P2win) and Blade and Soul--especially in PVP. The fact that we need to think about traits and playstyles in order to counter groups with what we have. E.G for necros, taking "close to death" over #3 in spite will sacrifice the shade boonstrip for the extra damage .. but will help you finish your downs and perhaps rally your allies. Or even the ideas of blast fields / combo fields -- in WvW and bigger groups we take advantage of this but haven't yet fully explored it (E.g. with stealth) and many other combinations.

    I feel like sitting on AC's for hours or building mortars knocking groups back (unless you actually need to) would be... a waste you know. Gotta take advantage of our combat system! And the only way to get better is, like everyone says, to fight groups better than you ... rather than tagging down after one wipe or dodging the enemy group to PPT instead of fight. I've seen it a couple of times on other servers and on my server as well.

    And @Ni ln.6578 I did hear TW and Dods were returning on Kaineng to revive the server. Also heard Xushin is back on Maguuma with [CTH]

  • Chaba.5410Chaba.5410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @MalinBlume.9314 said:
    @Chaba.5410 ... welll as much as I'd like to... it's just boring playing siege monkey for 2 hours.

    I feel you. Unfortunately that's the way this game is designed. If you can't beat them skill-wise, use numbers. Glad they nerfed arrow carts.

  • Optimator.3589Optimator.3589 Member ✭✭✭

    Get the 3rd server in the matchup to show up to where you're fighting and skill lag the enemy to death. Might skill lag you to death, too. The randomness is half the fun!

    REDUCE NA TO 3 TIERS

  • @Optimator.3589 hell yeah dude. Cookie of BG's main tactic is to skill lag the enemy to death. (just kidding, he actually a good commander on top of that)

  • neven.3785neven.3785 Member ✭✭✭

    Xushin just uses us for guild buffs x.x

  • Ni In.6578Ni In.6578 Member ✭✭✭

    @MalinBlume.9314 said:
    And @Ni ln.6578 I did hear TW and Dods were returning on Kaineng to revive the server. Also heard Xushin is back on Maguuma with [CTH]

    Xushin is back as of Memorial Day, yes. He's so skilled, he plays like he's playing against himself. Big brain stuff. Biggest brain you'll find in WvW, in fact. I don't know of a bigger brain. Not a smooth brain, either.

    As for Dods, he picks one ded game after another to stream. I'm not sure if he came back to this one, or not.

    [VII] Desert Spectre - Declared Best NA Guild by Grimaldi
    Crystal Desert Consul Member and President of Scrubs; declared most toxic server NA by Z E Y
    [VII] wants fights! Please bring your pug rangers for UD progress.

  • ArchonWing.9480ArchonWing.9480 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 11, 2019

    @MalinBlume.9314 said:
    @ArchonWing.9480 yeah, it is quite hard to cloud most of these groups. And yeah... getting farmed in EBG keep. FC had a 2.0-3.0 KDR in EU timezone simply by farming our keep and HoD's and the pugs who sadly kept going in yesterday as well QQ. Is it possible, with enough AC's and other defensive sieges to repel a decent group of 50?

    It goes along with the "boredom" strategy with cows and random ballistas to blow up siege as it gets built. With mounts your people will usually win by attrition unless they are running in seperately or are really uncoordinated.

    It takes about 1-2 fights to figure out if your group is worth helping, or is a lost cause. if there is no scouting (eg. They're in the lord room omg come now!!!)111 or chicken little callers that call for backup against 3 people or something every 2 minutes you're going to lose that stuff anyways. Just let it burn and don't feed them points.

  • TheBravery.9615TheBravery.9615 Member ✭✭✭

    synchronized snipes

    100 to dead in 2 seconds or less.

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭

    which RISE?

    Opposing all odds we RISE were dismembered by someone put into power that mass kicked everyone.

    Not too mention Seraph who was RISEs driver left the game like 2 years ago as far as I know..

    If they rebooted under a different name but same players like rip, gnar, henry and seraph it would be nice to know ☺

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    Apologies if I come off as dry or blunt.

  • anonymous.7812anonymous.7812 Member ✭✭✭

    @sephiroth.4217 said:
    which RISE?

    Opposing all odds we RISE were dismembered by someone put into power that mass kicked everyone.

    Not too mention Seraph who was RISEs driver left the game like 2 years ago as far as I know..

    If they rebooted under a different name but same players like rip, gnar, henry and seraph it would be nice to know ☺

    Primordus Virtus aka Jarvan's RISE .. pretty sure they're the only RISE that anyone would reference in the WvW forum.

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