Hammer QoL changes we need — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Hammer QoL changes we need

Ragnarox.9601Ragnarox.9601 Member ✭✭✭
edited June 12, 2019 in Guardian

After Staff got quality changes Hammer could use the same procedure, I rarely see any hammer guard in pvp or wvw, it became obsolete.
So I am suggesting some quality improvements:

1# Autoatack:
1/2
1/2 1x vulnerability for 2.5 sec
3/4 retalation for 1.5 sec sec

2# leap 450 range aoe 3 targets

3# this skill is pretty much useless so proposing something like:
Holy hammer drops on target location, creating mighty symbol giving swiftness(protection??) to allies and cripples your enemies.

4# stays the same but if the targets are immune to cc blinds them instead

5# can cast while walking

plus:
Swap positions of: "communal defenses" in valor and "Glacial heart" from virtues.

Sucks having Mjolnir and The Juggernaut and I dont even touch it anymore :(

Comments

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Hammer is useless everywhere. It needs more damage than you are suggesting (especially in PvE). The third AA chain surely needs lower cast time.

    Glacial heart should remain where it is. It is used primarily with FB and axe. If you put it valor, it becomes a dead trait, since no one will use it in PvE. It will also become a bad selection in PvP as well. And communal defense is a dead weight.

  • Ragnarox.9601Ragnarox.9601 Member ✭✭✭

    @otto.5684 said:
    Hammer is useless everywhere. It needs more damage than you are suggesting (especially in PvE). The third AA chain surely needs lower cast time.

    Glacial heart should remain where it is. It is used primarily with FB and axe. If you put it valor, it becomes a dead trait, since no one will use it in PvE. It will also become a bad selection in PvP as well. And communal defense is a dead weight.

    well I suggested Valor cause all dps builds are built around that cause of meditations.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 12, 2019

    @Ragnarox.9601 said:

    @otto.5684 said:
    Hammer is useless everywhere. It needs more damage than you are suggesting (especially in PvE). The third AA chain surely needs lower cast time.

    Glacial heart should remain where it is. It is used primarily with FB and axe. If you put it valor, it becomes a dead trait, since no one will use it in PvE. It will also become a bad selection in PvP as well. And communal defense is a dead weight.

    well I suggested Valor cause all dps builds are built around that cause of meditations.

    Not in PvE. Also, most builds use virtues in PvP anyway, so you do not lose anything with it staying in virtues. This will just hurt FB dps builds everywhere.

  • Ragnarox.9601Ragnarox.9601 Member ✭✭✭

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Ragnarox.9601 said:

    @otto.5684 said:
    Hammer is useless everywhere. It needs more damage than you are suggesting (especially in PvE). The third AA chain surely needs lower cast time.

    Glacial heart should remain where it is. It is used primarily with FB and axe. If you put it valor, it becomes a dead trait, since no one will use it in PvE. It will also become a bad selection in PvP as well. And communal defense is a dead weight.

    well I suggested Valor cause all dps builds are built around that cause of meditations.

    Not in PvE. Also, most builds use virtues in PvP anyway, so you do not lose anything with it staying in virtues. This will just hurt FB dps builds everywhere.

    only plain guardian, no other build uses outdated virtues line. Look at meta builds.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    2 increase range to 450 speed up animation
    3 more damage, add cripple
    4 add weakness, 3 targets, more damage
    3-5 reduce cds

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ragnarox.9601 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Ragnarox.9601 said:

    @otto.5684 said:
    Hammer is useless everywhere. It needs more damage than you are suggesting (especially in PvE). The third AA chain surely needs lower cast time.

    Glacial heart should remain where it is. It is used primarily with FB and axe. If you put it valor, it becomes a dead trait, since no one will use it in PvE. It will also become a bad selection in PvP as well. And communal defense is a dead weight.

    well I suggested Valor cause all dps builds are built around that cause of meditations.

    Not in PvE. Also, most builds use virtues in PvP anyway, so you do not lose anything with it staying in virtues. This will just hurt FB dps builds everywhere.

    only plain guardian, no other build uses outdated virtues line. Look at meta builds.

    PvE dps FB uses virtues/radiance/FB and uses glacial hammer. DH obviously does not. But no one uses hammer in PvE regardless.

    FB condi dps variants in PvP also use virtues. There are no other PvP meta builds lol.

  • Yannir.4132Yannir.4132 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 13, 2019

    I think Hammer 3 should be a cone-shaped attack with 750 range and 60 degree angle. Or maybe just shoot more than 1 chain in a cone-shaped pattern as 1200 range and have the angle at 30 degrees or so. The immobilize could be a bit longer too.
    I basically like what the skill does, it just needs a lot more reliability.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ragnarox.9601 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Ragnarox.9601 said:

    @otto.5684 said:
    Hammer is useless everywhere. It needs more damage than you are suggesting (especially in PvE). The third AA chain surely needs lower cast time.

    Glacial heart should remain where it is. It is used primarily with FB and axe. If you put it valor, it becomes a dead trait, since no one will use it in PvE. It will also become a bad selection in PvP as well. And communal defense is a dead weight.

    well I suggested Valor cause all dps builds are built around that cause of meditations.

    Not in PvE. Also, most builds use virtues in PvP anyway, so you do not lose anything with it staying in virtues. This will just hurt FB dps builds everywhere.

    only plain guardian, no other build uses outdated virtues line. Look at meta builds.

    Make some traits become core elite spec xd

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Hammer has always been prevented from getting love because there is simply too much going on Auto; Anet can't do much with any of the other skills without breaking the thing.

    Anet, your experiment has failed. Decouple the symbol from 1 and give hammer the bandwidth it needs to improve.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Ragnarox.9601Ragnarox.9601 Member ✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    Hammer has always been prevented from getting love because there is simply too much going on Auto; Anet can't do much with any of the other skills without breaking the thing.

    Anet, your experiment has failed. Decouple the symbol from 1 and give hammer the bandwidth it needs to improve.

    Yea it only works at static targets, every other symbol is instant so at least it does 1 or 2 ticks of dmg before ppl dodge it out.
    I am for symbol on 3# skill which cripple cause this 3# skill is too slow and does nothing for its cd.
    But...we might get some changes 2022 maybe.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ragnarox.9601 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    Hammer has always been prevented from getting love because there is simply too much going on Auto; Anet can't do much with any of the other skills without breaking the thing.

    Anet, your experiment has failed. Decouple the symbol from 1 and give hammer the bandwidth it needs to improve.

    Yea it only works at static targets, every other symbol is instant so at least it does 1 or 2 ticks of dmg before ppl dodge it out.
    I am for symbol on 3# skill which cripple cause this 3# skill is too slow and does nothing for its cd.
    But...we might get some changes 2022 maybe.

    Well Anet made changes to hammer in the last 6 month and made it worse in every game mode.

  • RUNICBLACK.7630RUNICBLACK.7630 Member ✭✭✭

    They could also put the symbol on 5# which has long been talked about as having rather limited use except for it movement/ access denial like the staff's line of warding. That way it could still function as a access denial with the plus of giving Protection and for those you trap in it or those that are able to get in via stability etc it could do some damage(and maybe a cripple but that might be to much).

    Life before Death
    Strength before Weakness
    Journey before Destination
    stormlightarchive.wikia.com/wiki/Immortal_Words

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Hammer just promote a gameplay that's not popular, is it really necessary to change it in such a way that it end up being another option to an already popular gameplay?
    Hammer just need hammer #3 and #4 to be more responsive (1 second cast time is way to long especially since one is a hard CC and the other is a soft CC and soft CCs have lost a lot of impact with the condi cleanse powercreep) and #5 to additionally heal allies or remove conditions every seconds. Everything else is fine, even the auto attack chain attack speed.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 15, 2019

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Hammer just promote a gameplay that's not popular, is it really necessary to change it in such a way that it end up being another option to an already popular gameplay?
    Hammer just need hammer #3 and #4 to be more responsive (1 second cast time is way to long especially since one is a hard CC and the other is a soft CC and soft CCs have lost a lot of impact with the condi cleanse powercreep) and #5 to additionally heal allies or remove conditions every seconds. Everything else is fine, even the auto attack chain attack speed.

    I think it is necessary because the gameplay it offers is the worst of anything in this game. To be fair, most people camp 1 because they can but I think this is the only case I can think of where camping 1 is THE optimal approach to playing. That's pretty sad. Even if you wanted to play it well, you quickly realize your best effort yields a result similar to the 1 camping lazy guy.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Hammer just promote a gameplay that's not popular, is it really necessary to change it in such a way that it end up being another option to an already popular gameplay?
    Hammer just need hammer #3 and #4 to be more responsive (1 second cast time is way to long especially since one is a hard CC and the other is a soft CC and soft CCs have lost a lot of impact with the condi cleanse powercreep) and #5 to additionally heal allies or remove conditions every seconds. Everything else is fine, even the auto attack chain attack speed.

    I think it is necessary because the gameplay it offers is the worst of anything in this game. To be fair, most people camp 1 because they can but I think this is the only case I can think of where camping 1 is THE optimal approach to playing. That's pretty sad. Even if you wanted to play it well, you quickly realize your best effort yields a result similar to the 1 camping lazy guy.

    The weapon is meant to control your opponent, this is the unpopular gameplay. It's not the fact that using the auto attack is the way to deal damage. The guardian already have weapons meant to deal damage and be fast pace, the hammer fill it's niche of a slow paced weapon that "trap" your opponent where you want to damage him. Yes it sucks against things that ignore the hammer trick but that's all.

    GW2 in most of the case is not about spamming your skills. AA in GW2 isn't something that you necessarily want to avoid using. The hammer auto attack and it's ability to keep a "permanent" symbol is, potentially:

    • perma prot
    • perma damage source
    • perma vuln
    • perma area heal
    • perma light field (source of light aura, retaliation and condi cleanse)
    • perma 10% damage increase for the guardian

    In a single build. This auto attack is good, very useful and don't need "buff". There is damage, support, survivability and debuff all in one. Yes, it's not what people look for in the highly "optimized" meta but that's unmistakenly good. In a gamemode like conquest it force your foe to leave the area, in PvE it allow you to simply facetank most of the content and in WvW you got the tools to make a few foes lag behind and be killed.

    You want what? To nerf it in order to fit the lost procburst hammer build that the guardian use to have? I often see you using the excuse of thematic. The is barely any other weapon on the guardian kit that's more thematic that this one.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 15, 2019

    I think we can still get a weapon that controls people that gives you a little more engagement than camping 1 because frankly, hammer has lots of bandwidth, yet most of the great stuff is packed into #1. Yes the Auto is good ... it's TOO good. That's the problem with the weapon. I also think the theme of the weapon can be maintained doing it. There isn't a reason to pretend we would have to sacrifice theme and good weapon skills to get a more engaging weapon ... there is LOTS of examples where Anet delivers all of that everywhere.

    But hey, if people just want to camp 1 all the time AND be at the top of their game, hammer is the perfect weapon for them. The truth is that those of us that want more than that ... we have lots of choice. If hammer is the weapon for the optimal noob and intended to be so ... so be it. I think it's a wasted opportunity and based on the attempts Anet has made to change hammer and it's Glacial trait and the lack of success there ... it's time to rethink this weapon a little deeper.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Blue.1207Blue.1207 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 15, 2019

    I'm actually quite surprised that there's not a high sustained hammer DPS class (inb4 next ranger elite). Aside from Rev and War in WvW, hammers are borderline useless outside niche uses. I'd like to see hammer go full on slow sustained/high dps with huge risk of messing up the rotation to warrant it's high damage.

  • Dhaos.7639Dhaos.7639 Member ✭✭

    Given how brutal it looks, hammer 4 is a bit weak imo.
    Id love it if banish got a few more tricks like knocking someone in a wall or ward for more damage or longer cc.
    Or even better, if it could just hit more than 1 target.

  • RisenHowl.2419RisenHowl.2419 Member ✭✭✭

    The only good skill on hammer is 2

    AA is too slow and low damage, making it useless in both pvp and pve. Good luck landing enough hits to even get the symbol down since the weapon is slow as kitten on a class with poor mobility and bad access to movement reduction conditions.

    2 rocks

    3 is a slow projectile that only travels along the ground? Why? This shouldn't be reflectable.

    4 is completely useless. Too slow to hit in melee range and launches an enemy away on a weapon set with no way to follow it up? Bad mobility and launches don't mix. This skill needs removed and replaced with something useful, like a 2s block.

    5 is again, too slow. It is useless in pve since bosses tend to be static and even if they move it deals minimal breakbar damage. It is useless in pvp because the weapon set has awful mobility, the only way you land this is with judge's intervention. For a skill with such limited use its absurd to have a 30s cd. This should be ditched completely and replaced with a close range pull, 450 range pbaoe. Fits the weapon set and much more reliable.

  • Arken.3725Arken.3725 Member ✭✭

    Not shabby but if you ask me, the whole kit needs a rework. It's just terrible.

  • Alex.4982Alex.4982 Member ✭✭

    @RUNICBLACK.7630 said:
    They could also put the symbol on 5# which has long been talked about as having rather limited use except for it movement/ access denial like the staff's line of warding. That way it could still function as a access denial with the plus of giving Protection and for those you trap in it or those that are able to get in via stability etc it could do some damage(and maybe a cripple but that might be to much).

    ^^ This is a cool idea

  • @Dadnir.5038 said:
    The weapon is meant to control your opponent, this is the unpopular gameplay. It's not the fact that using the auto attack is the way to deal damage. The guardian already have weapons meant to deal damage and be fast pace, the hammer fill it's niche of a slow paced weapon that "trap" your opponent where you want to damage him. Yes it sucks against things that ignore the hammer trick but that's all.

    GW2 in most of the case is not about spamming your skills. AA in GW2 isn't something that you necessarily want to avoid using. The hammer auto attack and it's ability to keep a "permanent" symbol is, potentially:

    • perma prot
    • perma damage source
    • perma vuln
    • perma area heal
    • perma light field (source of light aura, retaliation and condi cleanse)
    • perma 10% damage increase for the guardian

    In a single build. This auto attack is good, very useful and don't need "buff". There is damage, support, survivability and debuff all in one. Yes, it's not what people look for in the highly "optimized" meta but that's unmistakenly good. In a gamemode like conquest it force your foe to leave the area, in PvE it allow you to simply facetank most of the content and in WvW you got the tools to make a few foes lag behind and be killed.

    You want what? To nerf it in order to fit the lost procburst hammer build that the guardian use to have? I often see you using the excuse of thematic. The is barely any other weapon on the guardian kit that's more thematic that this one.

    So, I don't normally post on the forums but there's a lot of stuff to unpack here.

    1.) The weapon being good at lockdown and a slower paced weapon/control isn't bad, in fact it's what brings people into the weapon in the first place. You're 100% correct there. What is off is that the focus on the hammer's auto attack and the symbol upkeep. The permanents only truly come into play during open world PvE content, where the trait lines become less in focus, and it's more about just not being stupid. BUT, in any sense of Fractal/Raid/WvW/SPvP. The hammer falls of heavily because these "permanents" don't exist. No one will truly grab Writ of Persistence for the hammer, they'll grab it for the other weapons who's symbols are more controllable. If they cannot control it, i.E. The autos don't go out then the symbol, for hammer, is completely useless (this is alas, PvP oriented only). For PvE, in high level content, the damage the hammer puts out isn't quick enough and those "Permas" fall off. You'll never drop radiant if you're looking at high level power damage play, and you'll focus on Zeal to keep the vuln/damage increase.

    In all, the weapon is great on paper if it is 1 target, and you, not moving. It's not going to work in any high level play. You're 100% correct in it having everything tied to the symbol, but that's the issue that needs to be addressed. The symbol needs to be moved to a key press, the attack sped up, and not have a weapon like a hammer tied to having so many single target CC's.

    I love hammer, I've literally used it for every game mode I can. I use it for roaming/zerg fights wvw, SPvP, and for open world/raids when I could. But it always fell off, and that's the biggest issue. It needs to be cleaned up, focused on the CC' and allowing for a user to CONTROL the damage you output, when you need it. Not just when you can get 3 auto's off and you've got a symbol to rotate through.

  • I'm going to chime in here. I have my own guardian, and I loved hammer at launch. Yet, I have to agree that the AA is too loaded, and yet too slow relative to the rest of the kit. Banish needs to hit more targets. AA hit 3 needs to have its cast time reduced. Ring of Warding needs to allow you to move during the cast, and potentially have some damage attached to it, either while crossing it or while trapped within it. I think that would be enough to make it more used by the player base.

  • Skotlex.7580Skotlex.7580 Member ✭✭✭

    What I've always disliked of hammer is skill 5, it just seems to have very limited use outside of PvP. That's probably the skill that needs the most a change.

    One possible solution could be to move the symbol from skill 1 to 5, and adjust duration / cooldown accordingly. If a short duration symbol is preferred instead, then it could be moved to skill 2. The autoattack chain could be speed up, and the third strike could either cause some condition (like weakness) or it could become the blast finisher of the weapon (similar to elementalist lightning hammer conjure).

    Finally, banish needs better utility, rather than launching enemies backwards, it could blow them upwards in place, and increase the disable time a bit.

  • RisenHowl.2419RisenHowl.2419 Member ✭✭✭

    @Skotlex.7580 said:
    What I've always disliked of hammer is skill 5, it just seems to have very limited use outside of PvP. That's probably the skill that needs the most a change.

    One possible solution could be to move the symbol from skill 1 to 5, and adjust duration / cooldown accordingly. If a short duration symbol is preferred instead, then it could be moved to skill 2. The autoattack chain could be speed up, and the third strike could either cause some condition (like weakness) or it could become the blast finisher of the weapon (similar to elementalist lightning hammer conjure).

    Finally, banish needs better utility, rather than launching enemies backwards, it could blow them upwards in place, and increase the disable time a bit.

    5 isn't even useful in pvp, you can't land it without using judges intervention.

    Same for 4, why would you want to launch someone away from you with a melee weapon on a class with bad mobility?

  • TheAgedGnome.7520TheAgedGnome.7520 Member ✭✭✭

    @RisenHowl.2419 said:
    Same for 4, why would you want to launch someone away from you with a melee weapon on a class with bad mobility?

    Agreed - it's also useless for OW group events, where its detrimental and bad manners to launch a mob away from your melee allies.

    I'd prefer #4 was a Daze.

    I wonder what it would be like to have a build that takes all the Zeal+Honor+Virtue symbol-related traits listed here?:
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Symbol_of_Protection

    If that makes Hammer viable, then it would likely show that Hammer damage is being suppressed due to an edge case of trait combinations, which Anet should fix and then increase Hammer dmg.

  • crazyhusky.2985crazyhusky.2985 Member ✭✭✭

    I've only tested out the hammer recently and The hammer on guard feels rather slow and lacking places, it does need improvements.
    Personally I forgot hammer even had a symbol because of where it is.
    It should be close range weapon but the banish skill is rather stupid for it since it knocks foes out of your symbol and ring of warding. A questionable choice at this point. because if i use it then the foe gets knocked 750 range away and Guards don't have any skills on me that i can use to TP me there other than JI, by the time I get my SLOW guardian there, they've gotten up already.

    Here are ideas and tweaks for Hammer, to make VERY control and trapping.

    • Symbol of protection should be moved off the auto attack and moved to skill 5, and fused with Ring of Warding. Call it the Symbol of Warding or something. So when you place down the symbol it gives you protection and damages but also prevents the foe from escaping. Due the warding's duration the symbol's pulse damage should be lowered slightly due to it goes on for longer but the overall damge should remain the same. Secondly fusing the symbol and warding would allow you to use traits to effect the trapping.
    • Change Banish's launch distance to 0. Like Holosmith's Holographic shockwave (i don't know why you want to launch a foe with a weapon like this, it seems akward and a bad choice)
    • Zealot's embrace give this a pull so you can drag back foes to you, so you can fight them close range, if or when they escape your symbol. OR to for it be used an opening to pull them to you, then use symbol so they can't escape.
    • The Auto attack chain should be sped up. the finishing attack on auto-attack chain it feels off, with the changes above, the symbol is no longer a part of it. So having a normal quick 3 hit combo chain should be ok.
    • Mighty Blow and Glacial both need to be quicker, they seem like they take too long use, and or Increase their damage radius to 240 from 180.
    • Alternate to the above symbol change mentioned would be to move it to skill2 instead, making symbol of protection be it's own skill then have Glacial heart trait effect either symbol and protection or the Ring of warding, or both.

    what do you think?
    I feel that hammer SHOULD be a weapon that keeps your foes close at all times.

  • Brokensunday.4098Brokensunday.4098 Member ✭✭
    edited July 4, 2019

    1) hammer swing 1/2 strike your foe Damage 323 (0.8)
    1) hammer Bash 1/2 Bash your foe Damage 363 (0.9)
    1) wrathful blow 1. Strike you foe damage 450 (1.0)

    2)mighty blow 3/4 knock down and damage your foes (5) damage 847 (2.1) blast finisher.

    3) Zealot's Embrace 1 send a wave ( cone shaped) toward your foe thay inmovilize and slow your enemies 2 sec each. Range 1200 damage 300(1.0)

    4) heaven smash teleport to target area and knockdown all foes in the area max 5 range 1200 damage 404(1.0) blast finisher.

    5) simbol of warding. Create a simbol that foes cannot cross. Trapped enemies cannot exit the simbol while the simbol is active. Damage 1350 (3.35) applies 1 sec of protection simbol last 5 secs.

    What you guus think of these changes. Would it make hammer competitive or op?

  • TheAgedGnome.7520TheAgedGnome.7520 Member ✭✭✭

    @TheAgedGnome.7520 said:

    I wonder what it would be like to have a build that takes all the Zeal+Honor+Virtue symbol-related traits listed here?:
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Symbol_of_Protection

    If that makes Hammer viable, then it would likely show that Hammer damage is being suppressed due to an edge case of trait combinations, which Anet should fix and then increase Hammer dmg.

    I played around with this build last nite. The general idea was a OW support build with CC abilities. Not claiming this is a super-duper build, I just wanted to try to use the relevant symbol traits in a hammer build. Some gear choices were also based on what I happened to have at hand.

    While it worked and generally survived quite well, it felt incredibly clunky and laborious. Any need to move to evade mobs or reposition meant breaking the AA chain, which meant restarting the 3-hit sequence to finally achieve the symbol on the last hit. This build did typically stack 16-20 vulns on the target, so that's something. Liberal use of Mantra of Truth added more vuln and the blinds helped with dealing with multiple mobs. Quickness helps defray the clunkiness somewhat, but can't truly compensate for fugly skill design and synergy weaknesses. Finally, the need to leverage the symbol traits seems to mean that a hammer build must center around the weapon rather than the weapon usefully complementing a desired build.

    • #4 - As has been mentioned. Banish is mostly counterproductive, so you really only have 4 weapon skills.
    • #5 - Ring of Warding is such a long CD (30s) and has no damage so that it acts more like a niche utility than a weapon skill, which leaves us with 3 usable weapon skills.
    • #2 - Mighty Blow is pretty decent, except that the 300 leap range is unfairly kitten compared to the 600 range for sword & greatsword leaps.
    • #3 - Zealot's Embrace immobilize works; but like Banish, its often counterproductive since after immob a target up to 1200 away, you then need to use up a leap to reach the immobilized target. But again, your leap max is 300, so they don't synergize well.
    • #1 - The AA chain - the symbol on hit 3 makes the symbol a 2 1/4 sec skill to reach, and also seems an intentional and unwarranted punishment for any repositioning which breaks the AA chain. The absence of a CC on the symbol also detracts from the notion that hammer is a desirable CC weapon.

    I get the RP idea that hammer is a big, heavy, slow weapon so that it could make leaps short or it could make AA chain slower or it could have powerful strikes that launch an enemy, etc., but taking all those RP rationales together is just multiplicative gimping of skills, which gives us the current state of hammer.

  • Lahmia.2193Lahmia.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 4, 2019

    @Brokensunday.4098 said:
    1) hammer swing 1/2 strike your foe Damage 323 (0.8)
    1) hammer Bash 1/2 Bash your foe Damage 363 (0.9)
    1) wrathful blow 1. Strike you foe damage 450 (1.0)

    2)mighty blow 3/4 knock down and damage your foes (5) damage 847 (2.1) blast finisher.

    3) Zealot's Embrace 1 send a wave ( cone shaped) toward your foe thay inmovilize and slow your enemies 2 sec each. Range 1200 damage 300(1.0)

    4) heaven smash teleport to target area and knockdown all foes in the area max 5 range 1200 damage 404(1.0) blast finisher.

    5) simbol of warding. Create a simbol that foes cannot cross. Trapped enemies cannot exit the simbol while the simbol is active. Damage 1350 (3.35) applies 1 sec of protection simbol last 5 secs.

    What you guus think of these changes. Would it make hammer competitive or op?

    Make Symbol of Warding a ground targeted attack (similar to Scrapper hammer 5) but with 600 range. Make it much better for trapping foes. Can copy the same animation too.

    "Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death."

  • Genesis.8572Genesis.8572 Member ✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    Hammer has always been prevented from getting love because there is simply too much going on Auto; Anet can't do much with any of the other skills without breaking the thing.

    Anet, your experiment has failed. Decouple the symbol from 1 and give hammer the bandwidth it needs to improve.

    Yeah, I would actually put the Symbol on Skill 3 (removing the old Skill 3 entirely) and give it a bit more functionality (e.g., stability). Then adjust the Hammer 1 AA chain as needed, maybe even just make the Glacial Heart chill baseline.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Genesis.8572 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    Hammer has always been prevented from getting love because there is simply too much going on Auto; Anet can't do much with any of the other skills without breaking the thing.

    Anet, your experiment has failed. Decouple the symbol from 1 and give hammer the bandwidth it needs to improve.

    Yeah, I would actually put the Symbol on Skill 3 (removing the old Skill 3 entirely) and give it a bit more functionality (e.g., stability). Then adjust the Hammer 1 AA chain as needed, maybe even just make the Glacial Heart chill baseline.

    I also think that moving the symbol to 3 and removing the old skill is the best option to move forward. As long as it is 10 secs CD 4 sec duration, with protection, that would be more than enough. The anet can change the auto by buffing the damage. In PvE it should deal around the same damage as sword/focus in a power build.

    Skill 4 & 5 can stay as is.

  • RisenHowl.2419RisenHowl.2419 Member ✭✭✭

    I'd love it if the symbol were attached to 2, 2s duration 6s CD

    4s/12s keeps it in line with other symbols

    Then just rework 4/5 to anything else and the weapon is worth using =D

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ragnarox.9601 said:
    4# stays the same but if the targets are immune to cc blinds them instead

    Sooo... after failing to use the skill at the correct time, you want to be rewarded anyways? Seems a little backwards to me.

  • Opopanax.1803Opopanax.1803 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'd like a 1 sec chill on #3 of the AA. Or a cripple. Something to help provide the weapon with a little more control.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Opopanax.1803 said:
    I'd like a 1 sec chill on #3 of the AA. Or a cripple. Something to help provide the weapon with a little more control.

    Skill 2, 4 and 5 apply chill (glacial heart and it does not even require CC, just hit) and 3 is a root. The issue is not the weapon has no control effects, but that the damage, sits mostly on one skill and the weapon overall deals abysmal damage everywhere; hence it is not used. Also, for control, axe with FB mantra of truth, for exceeds anything hammer can ever dream of doing.

  • TheAgedGnome.7520TheAgedGnome.7520 Member ✭✭✭

    These upcoming changes in these symbol traits should help out hammer: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/81729/upcoming-balance-notes

    • Symbolic Avenger: This trait has been reworked. It now increases the guardian's damage by 2% stacking (max 5 stacks) for 15 seconds whenever a symbol hits a foe.
    • Symbolic Power: Increased the symbol damage from 10% to 30%. This trait no longer has a chance to inflict burning. Instead it causes symbols to charge your Justice passive effect twice as fast.
    • Symbolic Exposure: This trait now increases damage to vulnerable foes by 5% in addition to its previous effects.
  • Etterwyn.5263Etterwyn.5263 Member ✭✭✭

    They will help Hammer autoattack for sure. Sadly it will still remain a 2-skill weapon. Maybe we should petition it to be made into a 1-hander so we can pair it with something useful.

    WvW™ - where you find more Red Rings of Death than an Xbox repair facility.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TheAgedGnome.7520 said:
    These upcoming changes in these symbol traits should help out hammer: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/81729/upcoming-balance-notes

    • Symbolic Avenger: This trait has been reworked. It now increases the guardian's damage by 2% stacking (max 5 stacks) for 15 seconds whenever a symbol hits a foe.
    • Symbolic Power: Increased the symbol damage from 10% to 30%. This trait no longer has a chance to inflict burning. Instead it causes symbols to charge your Justice passive effect twice as fast.
    • Symbolic Exposure: This trait now increases damage to vulnerable foes by 5% in addition to its previous effects.

    You cannot use zeal with hammer outside of PvE. So, all these buffs are not relevant outside of playing core in PvE. They also impact all weapons. I would argue that the symbolic avenger, in particular, has no addition benefits to hammer compared to other weapons, considering that you could hold symbol up time.

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