After 6+ long years...!

After all we've been through! So many years! So many battles and events! So much experience!

Thief forgets how to be quick and mobile, decides to be more sluggish, forgets how to deal significant damage, forgets how to close a gap with a Shadowstep (Swipe is a 600 range Shadowstep, lmao...), & probably just decided to give up at this point, considering the type of sh.. other classes can pull off.

It was much more fun in the earlier days... Oh well.

Yea.. pre-HoT were the real days for us. After that... everythin went downhill quite quick.

just to give a different opinion because i'm tired of this. thief is still very much viable in spvp and wvw. one has the option to play many different builds unlike herald for example who is pretty much stuck with one build. i still enjoy d/p bow DA dash. rifle, p/p, s/p deadeye builds are also fun and bursty, s/d core isn't everyones taste, mine neither but it works fine.swipe is something one can adapt to. i dont feel like i need the range as i have other gap closing options too. the unblockable is nice to use into channelled blocks in combination with draining sigil, PI and the boonsteal. i very much feel like i can control fights and avoid fights as i always have with thief.saying thief is kitten is lazy and noobish. but thats just my opinion. i want other players and anet to know that not everyone is frustrated with thief at the moment.however, i am very very happy about the fact that thief isn't op so everyone plays it. rather the somewhat more skilled players are the ones playing it successfully.

New Thief Elite: POLITICIAN

The Thief decided to retire from the dark criminal underworld, so he entered the world of politics where the true scoundrels and thieves live... and live much easier. Why steal from just one when you can steal from millions?

@Padd.1479 said:just to give a different opinion because i'm tired of this. thief is still very much viable in spvp and wvw. one has the option to play many different builds unlike herald for example who is pretty much stuck with one build. i still enjoy d/p bow DA dash. rifle, p/p, s/p deadeye builds are also fun and bursty, s/d core isn't everyones taste, mine neither but it works fine.swipe is something one can adapt to. i dont feel like i need the range as i have other gap closing options too. the unblockable is nice to use into channelled blocks in combination with draining sigil, PI and the boonsteal. i very much feel like i can control fights and avoid fights as i always have with thief.saying thief is kitten is lazy and noobish. but thats just my opinion. i want other players and anet to know that not everyone is frustrated with thief at the moment.however, i am very very happy about the fact that thief isn't op so everyone plays it. rather the somewhat more skilled players are the ones playing it successfully.

u sound like someone whose still naive and young. have u played thief 5-6 years? or maybe only 5-6months? that would kinda explain why u r so hopeful. if u r an old player.. i applaud for your patience. not many of us left out there with your attitude.

@Dave.6819 said:Yea.. pre-HoT were the real days for us. After that... everythin went downhill quite quick.

well from 2015 to 2019 isn't that quick to me to be honest uhuhuhuh (Kappa)

@"Dave.6819" said:u sound like someone whose still naive and young. have u played thief 5-6 years? or maybe only 5-6months? that would kinda explain why u r so hopeful. if u r an old player.. i applaud for your patience. not many of us left out there with your attitude.

i play since pre-HoT. mainly wvw solo roaming and a good amount of spvp. of course there are matchups that are too tough for most thief builds but not more than there are supposed to be imo. i wish people would be way more specific in their criticism since thief theoretically can adapt to most situations. "600 range too little mimimi" isnt constructive and also no reason to call daredevil unviable.

@Padd.1479 said:

@"Dave.6819" said:u sound like someone whose still naive and young. have u played thief 5-6 years? or maybe only 5-6months? that would kinda explain why u r so hopeful. if u r an old player.. i applaud for your patience. not many of us left out there with your attitude.

backstab cooldown. nerfs to dagger dmg. lead attacks nerf. unhindered combatant nerf. 600 range steal nerf. and even back way some time ago acrobatics got nerfed too (+ vigor nerf in general). i'm sure i'm forgettin somethin already but there u go some "specific criticism". nothin specific about it just obvious nerfs that come to my mind that speak for itself. that made thief less and less powerful obviously. but yea let's carry on "theoretically adapting".

@Padd.1479 said:just to give a different opinion because i'm tired of this. thief is still very much viable in spvp and wvw. one has the option to play many different builds unlike herald for example who is pretty much stuck with one build. i still enjoy d/p bow DA dash. rifle, p/p, s/p deadeye builds are also fun and bursty, s/d core isn't everyones taste, mine neither but it works fine.swipe is something one can adapt to. i dont feel like i need the range as i have other gap closing options too. the unblockable is nice to use into channelled blocks in combination with draining sigil, PI and the boonsteal. i very much feel like i can control fights and avoid fights as i always have with thief.saying thief is kitten is lazy and noobish. but thats just my opinion. i want other players and anet to know that not everyone is frustrated with thief at the moment.however, i am very very happy about the fact that thief isn't op so everyone plays it. rather the somewhat more skilled players are the ones playing it successfully.

Gonna have to agree with most of what you said I look at it like this if players are complaining about the class being hard they knew what they signed up for the class was built for a high skill cap and that's what it's doing now. It's arguably one of the best times to play as a thief now it isn't busted nor is it to weak you need a brain to play it. Let alone the fact as thieves your meant to decide the fight you could go through with it or run away if it's not favored for you. It's gonna have a high skill cap but it has more tools up its sleeves than anything else. But if most of the people on the forums can't accept it's gonna have a skill cap there's not much you can do but move past it and let them hold their opinion.

And a side note for the thieves arguing they are vets it doesn't matter how long you've played the class. That's not the point of this topic it doesn't show any background for you to argue your point is more valid than the next person just accept the opinion of others and move on and try to grow with your class and put some meaningful conversations on the forums instead of this cancer the forums is known for.

@pureskullz.7536 said:

@Padd.1479 said:just to give a different opinion because i'm tired of this. thief is still very much viable in spvp and wvw. one has the option to play many different builds unlike herald for example who is pretty much stuck with one build. i still enjoy d/p bow DA dash. rifle, p/p, s/p deadeye builds are also fun and bursty, s/d core isn't everyones taste, mine neither but it works fine.swipe is something one can adapt to. i dont feel like i need the range as i have other gap closing options too. the unblockable is nice to use into channelled blocks in combination with draining sigil, PI and the boonsteal. i very much feel like i can control fights and avoid fights as i always have with thief.saying thief is kitten is lazy and noobish. but thats just my opinion. i want other players and anet to know that not everyone is frustrated with thief at the moment.however, i am very very happy about the fact that thief isn't op so everyone plays it. rather the somewhat more skilled players are the ones playing it successfully.

I look at it as picking the class 5 yrs or so ago and slowly watching it get nerfed further into the ground each year and changed in so many ways including the reduction in build deversity/viable builds etc all while other classes incurring changes as well and in most cases powercrept and on top of the power creep classes were given ways to further make thief redundant when facing them like increased mobility,reveals etc being handed out to classes. May be just me tho but seems like a huge majority of long time thief players are far from happy with where the class has ended up especially when the state of other classes are considered, seems like thief's in a great spot to me, I could be wrong tho lol

i could get behind all the "nerfs". they made sense in my eyes. the only clear nerf in terms of numbers is the auto attack nerf but promoting initiative usage to deal dmg makes sense since it's the idea of initiative. it all made thief a more skill demanding profession and i like it. i know many dont and thats fine because im happy that it is not a noobclass and noobs move on to other professions with their cheesy builds.i also agree with the positive aspects of the current thief state of purskullz.

Yeah nerfing lead attacks when nobody ever complained about it until DE,than after the nerf DE was the only spec to be able to front load dps lmao, makes sense to me to. Ricochet woulda been so OP these days. Cast time on black powder was so needed cuz making a skill clunky on a fast glassy class makes sense, reducing range on steal and calling it swipe to force players to play DD as a brawler spec but leave it with garbage sustain makes awesome sense, nerfing weapon aa's on a glass class to match higher hp or higher sustain classes (some have actual higher) so its ttk is to low to stand a chance in most 1v1 also asome lmao could go on but no point really.

Thief has good and bad builds like any other profession. I just returned to it and have been running D/D core and having pretty good results. Is it as easy as other professions to do the same thing? No, it's not suppose to be. What, do you want thief to be a face roll profession like some of the others? I hope it doesn't go that route, wouldn't be as fun. That being said it does need changes I just think it's not in as bad a state as people say.

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@pureskullz.7536 said:

@Padd.1479 said:just to give a different opinion because i'm tired of this. thief is still very much viable in spvp and wvw. one has the option to play many different builds unlike herald for example who is pretty much stuck with one build. i still enjoy d/p bow DA dash. rifle, p/p, s/p deadeye builds are also fun and bursty, s/d core isn't everyones taste, mine neither but it works fine.swipe is something one can adapt to. i dont feel like i need the range as i have other gap closing options too. the unblockable is nice to use into channelled blocks in combination with draining sigil, PI and the boonsteal. i very much feel like i can control fights and avoid fights as i always have with thief.saying thief is kitten is lazy and noobish. but thats just my opinion. i want other players and anet to know that not everyone is frustrated with thief at the moment.however, i am very very happy about the fact that thief isn't op so everyone plays it. rather the somewhat more skilled players are the ones playing it successfully.

Did you expect it to not change because the whole reason thief was nerfed so many times was due to our auto attacks hitting 2-3k and 6.5k with lotus strike on dagger main hand? No class should be able to do that dagger main hand auto attacks are fast so why should it hit like a truck that's why we have backstabs Our backstabs pre HoT and into early HoT were hitting up to 20k easily with marauder stats how can you call that nerfed into the ground. It's still very usable it requires you to actually save your skills for the right scenario and you can still hit 8k backstabs on avg with dagger builds assuming your running marauders armor and berserk trinkets. Then Daredevil has gap closers like crazy you could run infiltrators dash shortbow shadow step the possibilities are endless or you could use stealth to try to gap close. The steal on that is unblockable you time that with trickery's sleight of hand that's an unblockable daze. You can run berserker stats in world vs world and still have 17k hp due to the trait that converts your power to vitality on Daredevil. Core thief also works better than most of the other core classes right now as well. It can beat elite specs very easily and arguably has the most tools out of all the variations of thief. So I'm just gonna assume you didn't say we were nerfed into the ground because thief is still very usable and I'd be happy to help you figure that out.

Yeah I'd like these amazing thief players that say it's in a good spot to post non highlight vids showing us their skills against peeps of decent skill in 1v1 and not resorting to stealth back stabs or +1'sIt's easy for me to go to any class thread and post that a class is fine and that I do great with it.I can post ele is the best 1v1 and I never lose on it and means little.How about with ur infinite knowledge tell us all why all the nerfs/changes were needed and how they made sense :)

@Zexanima.7851 said:Thief has good and bad builds like any other profession. I just returned to it and have been running D/D core and having pretty good results. Is it as easy as other professions to do the same thing? No, it's not suppose to be. What, do you want thief to be a face roll profession like some of the others? I hope it doesn't go that route, wouldn't be as fun. That being said it does need changes I just think it's not in as bad a state as people say.

I also use D/D core and your message sums up why I love it so much. It rewards you when you put effort into it and if you put yourself in an unfavorable position it was on you. But you can learn from that experience and get better.

Really cuz often times in wvw with d/d I fight say a warrior I'll literally hit them 10 times using evades an evade frame before they land a hit on me which I consider outplayed the player but because the state of the game if my hits go thru I've chunked 50 percent of their hp if I dont see block block block invulnerability etc than they cc or land 2 hits on my and I'm in downstate,seems balanced.

@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:Yeah I'd like these amazing thief players that say it's in a good spot to post non highlight vids showing us their skills against peeps of decent skill in 1v1 and not resorting to stealth back stabs or +1'sIt's easy for me to go to any class thread and post that a class is fine and that I do great with it.I can post ele is the best 1v1 and I never lose on it and means little.How about with ur infinite knowledge tell us all why all the nerfs/changes were needed and how they made sense :)

I'd be happy to show you if you really wanted to see proof if you're the type of person that doesn't believe it without seeing it, Then to the nerfs well I'd hope you would have asked Anet themselves to get clarification on why they did it instead of posting it's nerfed into the ground as you haven't given me a specific example as to why it's "nerfed into ground" so please enlighten me.

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Really cuz often times in wvw with d/d I fight say a warrior I'll literally hit them 10 times using evades an evade frame before they land a hit on me which I consider outplayed the player but because the state of the game if my hits go thru I've chunked 50 percent of their hp if I dont see block block block invulnerability etc than they cc or land 2 hits on my and I'm in downstate,seems balanced.

So, in that case, you hit them to 50% hp but didn't kite away from the warrior and didn't use your evades on death blossom to dodge the blow and utilized cloak and dagger for stealth access. Then you also don't stunbreak either it sounds like you were asking for the fight to end badly.

I gave reasons in above post. A class that is glassy and relies on mobility should have a fast ttk and not just through stealth backstabs or a noob standing while u vault him 2 or three times in a row. Thief standard dps to sustain ratio is not high enough to be a good 1v1 hence why it's well known as a decapper +1 class. Even if u do win a fight it prob wasted alot of time cuz again compared to classes sustain these days it has garbage ttk speed. A class like thief should get in and kill fast before it gets hit twice and dies and needs to rely on evades to not die but right now u go at a hilo with ur D/D or a boonbeast,spellbreaker and tell me ur ttk matches ur sustain and that u do a good amount of damage in relation to how much those classes do with the sustain they have,its ridiculously balanced and judging by the threads since well the last year 2 or three people saying thief is fine,who u think idea of balance is messed? Oh right just the majority of us are wrong and u few are right lmao. Um glad u enjoy beating bad players in 1v1,must make u feel like u accomplished somthing lol

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Yeah I'd like these amazing thief players that say it's in a good spot to post non highlight vids showing us their skills against peeps of decent skill in 1v1 and not resorting to stealth back stabs or +1'sIt's easy for me to go to any class thread and post that a class is fine and that I do great with it.I can post ele is the best 1v1 and I never lose on it and means little.How about with ur infinite knowledge tell us all why all the nerfs/changes were needed and how they made sense :)

I can post some clips of wins losses for you if you like. If I die it's because I messed up, not because the profession is broken. If I win I can be confident it's always because I outplayed my opponent.

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Really cuz often times in wvw with d/d I fight say a warrior I'll literally hit them 10 times using evades an evade frame before they land a hit on me which I consider outplayed the player but because the state of the game if my hits go thru I've chunked 50 percent of their hp if I dont see block block block invulnerability etc than they cc or land 2 hits on my and I'm in downstate,seems balanced.

Warriors are the easiest fights on D/D. They are extremely telegraphed and predictable. With the amount of evades and stun breaks you have they should never lock you down. If they lock you down, you messed up. Do I mess up? Yes, it's a hard profession but very rewarding if you don't mess up. Warrior takes a while to kill but it can be done reliably. Yes even spellbreaker. I'll gladly add you in game and go over how I fight things with you.

@Dave.6819 said:Yea.. pre-HoT were the real days for us. After that... everythin went downhill quite quick.Pre HoT I could twoshot thieves from 1200 range with two shroud autoattacks (the second one proccing CoD).

Now they just evade/dodge 6 attacks, then cast dagger storm, then proc the auto-evade trait if they run acro, then just teleport away.

Good old times...

@KrHome.1920 said:

@Dave.6819 said:Yea.. pre-HoT were the real days for us. After that... everythin went downhill quite quick.Pre HoT I could twoshot thieves from 1200 range with two shroud autoattacks (the second proccing CoD).

That's why I was running daggerstorm at that time instead of basi very fun times.

Weird if warriors are easiest fight why arnt all the thieves in conquest rolling them over.Dude u can go on all u want,I see it from both sides. My reaper has way less mobility yet unless I'm tuned down quick outa stealth from DE in a gimmick build I farm them. I played thief for yrs than started playing rev,warrior,reaper and ranger alot in wvw and the difference is huge.

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:I gave reasons in above post. A class that is glassy and relies on mobility should have a fast ttk and not just through stealth backstabs or a noob standing while u vault him 2 or three times in a row. Thief standard dps to sustain ratio is not high enough to be a good 1v1 hence why it's well known as a decapper +1 class. Even if u do win a fight it prob wasted alot of time cuz again compared to classes sustain these days it has garbage ttk speed. A class like thief should get in and kill fast before it gets hit twice and dies and needs to rely on evades to not die but right now u go at a hilo with ur D/D or a boonbeast,spellbreaker and tell me ur ttk matches ur sustain and that u do a good amount of damage in relation to how much those classes do with the sustain they have,its ridiculously balanced and judging by the threads since well the last year 2 or three people saying thief is fine,who u think idea of balance is messed? Oh right just the majority of us are wrong and u few are right lmao. Um glad u enjoy beating bad players in 1v1,must make u feel like u accomplished somthing lol

We aren't a DPS class we are a bursting class we have some of the highest burst damage in the game. Now depending on the elite spec, it can become a DPS class yeah like deadeye is in raids it has a very high benchmark for damage and Daredevil isn't to bad either core probably being the one that burst more than the other two. Also, holosmith is a direct counter to thief as it has a lot fo sustain you shouldn't be fighting a holo unless you know you can pull that fight off so as a logical thief you should be running from that fight. Just because you choose bad matchups to fight doesn't mean it's the classes fault the class as makes you think before you engage. Then if you do engage you have to be able to pull through or know when to run.