The new sides king after the update (if nerfs for holo, spb, sb, herald, and scrap come through) — Guild Wars 2 Forums

The new sides king after the update (if nerfs for holo, spb, sb, herald, and scrap come through)

Gundam Style.8495Gundam Style.8495 Member ✭✭
edited June 15, 2019 in PVP

This evasive, hard to kill monster they call the Fire Weaver or some other off flavor weavers. A sleeper problematic class. I have been seeing up to 3 and 4 games , but minimally 1 per team. I think if the current desired nerfs come through, this will be the new fotm.

Comments

  • Zexanima.7851Zexanima.7851 Member ✭✭✭

    I could possibly see that and maybe burn FB, they can be a pain in the butt to kill. I doubt all those nerfs will make it through though.

    D/D core thief cause I hate myself.
    Are You Proud Yet [DAD] is best guild.

  • Megametzler.5729Megametzler.5729 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 14, 2019

    Any other weaver build falls asleep fighting this. Also, guards, clever scourges and mirages, scrappers, prot holos.

    This build hits a ceiling at some level. I agree it might become problematic, but right now, it is worse than water weaver at Plat2+ and I doubt that will change - except for some compositions where you can troll bad warriors and thieves and such.

  • Marxx.5021Marxx.5021 Member ✭✭✭

    Don't worry. The balancing guy follows his own agenda. There might be more buffs for all classes :-).

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    What it must be like to still have Hope's and dreams of a different meta lol

  • Tayga.3192Tayga.3192 Member ✭✭✭

    It can easy be kited because it runs glyph instead of teleport. However, I agree that it has very strong burn damage and evades for days.

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 14, 2019

    @Marxx.5021 said:
    Don't worry. The balancing guy follows his own agenda. There might be more buffs for all classes :-).

    +1

    'On the negative side, the more people possess power, the more they focus on their own egocentric desires and the less able they are to see others' perspectives.'

  • EnderzShadow.2506EnderzShadow.2506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Gundam Style.8495 said:
    This evasive, hard to kill monster they call the Fire Weaver. A sleeper problematic class. I have been seeing up to 3 and 4 games , but minimally 1 per team. I think if the current desired nerfs come through, this will be the new fotm.

    Is this all gw2 pvp is anymore? It's unbalanced while it's working and then ok when it's nerfed?

    mhm, ok, sure, whatever you say, no after you, I insist, no really, please, be my guest,

  • @EnderzShadow.2506 said:

    @Gundam Style.8495 said:
    This evasive, hard to kill monster they call the Fire Weaver. A sleeper problematic class. I have been seeing up to 3 and 4 games , but minimally 1 per team. I think if the current desired nerfs come through, this will be the new fotm.

    Is this all gw2 pvp is anymore? It's unbalanced while it's working and then ok when it's nerfed?

    It really seems like the idea of a "side node player" is really the over performing item. The concept of being able to keep 2-3 players busy naturally would make that same class a top tier duelist. If they can do those two items, the are already a team fighter. If they can be a side noder they must have some pretty decent mobility. So if we review what side node classes can do, you can also see that they happen to be the ones focused in most complaint threads. Mirage and Druid and the biggest side noders that have been brought down by the efforts of the community. Over-performing specs should be nerfed. Look at Deadeye, all but gone from the scene. Playing the sides isn't really a class role and that is why it is the most frequently attacked. Balanced is okay if classes do different things and have good matchups and poor matchups, as long as they have something to bring to the fight. A typical side class brings too much. It is not "class flavor", instead it is just kitten. If a class has to fight more than 1 v 1, and supposedly the players are of equal skill, they should NEVER win that fight. Regardless of flavors, side noders tend to be over-tuned because they tend to break the numbers rule. And, many times, it is not skill related.

  • RisenHowl.2419RisenHowl.2419 Member ✭✭✭

    Where's the notes...?

  • EnderzShadow.2506EnderzShadow.2506 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 15, 2019

    @Gundam Style.8495 said:

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:

    @Gundam Style.8495 said:
    This evasive, hard to kill monster they call the Fire Weaver. A sleeper problematic class. I have been seeing up to 3 and 4 games , but minimally 1 per team. I think if the current desired nerfs come through, this will be the new fotm.

    Is this all gw2 pvp is anymore? It's unbalanced while it's working and then ok when it's nerfed?

    It really seems like the idea of a "side node player" is really the over performing item. The concept of being able to keep 2-3 players busy naturally would make that same class a top tier duelist. If they can do those two items, the are already a team fighter. If they can be a side noder they must have some pretty decent mobility. So if we review what side node classes can do, you can also see that they happen to be the ones focused in most complaint threads. Mirage and Druid and the biggest side noders that have been brought down by the efforts of the community. Over-performing specs should be nerfed. Look at Deadeye, all but gone from the scene. Playing the sides isn't really a class role and that is why it is the most frequently attacked. Balanced is okay if classes do different things and have good matchups and poor matchups, as long as they have something to bring to the fight. A typical side class brings too much. It is not "class flavor", instead it is just kitten. If a class has to fight more than 1 v 1, and supposedly the players are of equal skill, they should NEVER win that fight. Regardless of flavors, side noders tend to be over-tuned because they tend to break the numbers rule. And, many times, it is not skill related.

    I was making a comment on the general thoughts behind the posts "Nerf this next" which you avidly are supporting by means of this post.

    The new sides king after the update (if nerfs for holo, spb, sb, herald, and scrap come through)".

    So you want 4 classes nerfed.... but that's not all. Then you want the Ele to be nerfed? Would that make thief better?

    Get Better at the Game.
    Do that by Playing the class you have the most trouble with.
    -You will either learn how to beat them
    -or stall/outrotate them to your advantage
    -Can't beat them? Join them--- Have fun playing the class.

    How long have you been playing this game? Cause it seems sophomoric to criticize the idea of side noders.
    "If a class has to fight more than 1 v 1, and supposedly the players are of equal skill, they should NEVER win that fight."
    Plenty of classes can 1v2. Class 1-is very good and the other 2 players make mistakes.
    Maybe it 'shouldn't' happen, but this isn't 2 competing AI in a computer simulation.

    And there is no way you are changing a prime mechanic of this game like +1's and side noders.
    It's strategy. It's been here for years.

    mhm, ok, sure, whatever you say, no after you, I insist, no really, please, be my guest,

  • Gundam Style.8495Gundam Style.8495 Member ✭✭
    edited June 15, 2019

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:

    @Gundam Style.8495 said:

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:

    @Gundam Style.8495 said:
    This evasive, hard to kill monster they call the Fire Weaver. A sleeper problematic class. I have been seeing up to 3 and 4 games , but minimally 1 per team. I think if the current desired nerfs come through, this will be the new fotm.

    Is this all gw2 pvp is anymore? It's unbalanced while it's working and then ok when it's nerfed?

    It really seems like the idea of a "side node player" is really the over performing item. The concept of being able to keep 2-3 players busy naturally would make that same class a top tier duelist. If they can do those two items, the are already a team fighter. If they can be a side noder they must have some pretty decent mobility. So if we review what side node classes can do, you can also see that they happen to be the ones focused in most complaint threads. Mirage and Druid and the biggest side noders that have been brought down by the efforts of the community. Over-performing specs should be nerfed. Look at Deadeye, all but gone from the scene. Playing the sides isn't really a class role and that is why it is the most frequently attacked. Balanced is okay if classes do different things and have good matchups and poor matchups, as long as they have something to bring to the fight. A typical side class brings too much. It is not "class flavor", instead it is just kitten. If a class has to fight more than 1 v 1, and supposedly the players are of equal skill, they should NEVER win that fight. Regardless of flavors, side noders tend to be over-tuned because they tend to break the numbers rule. And, many times, it is not skill related.

    I was making a comment on the general thoughts behind the posts "Nerf this next" which you avidly are supporting by means of this post.

    The new sides king after the update (if nerfs for holo, spb, sb, herald, and scrap come through)".

    So you want 4 classes nerfed.... but that's not all. Then you want the Ele to be nerfed? Would that make thief better?

    Get Better at the Game.
    Do that by Playing the class you have the most trouble with.
    -You will either learn how to beat them
    -or stall/outrotate them to your advantage
    -Can't beat them? Join them--- Have fun playing the class.

    How long have you been playing this game? Cause it seems sophomoric to criticize the idea of side noders.
    "If a class has to fight more than 1 v 1, and supposedly the players are of equal skill, they should NEVER win that fight."
    Plenty of classes can 1v2. Class 1-is very good and the other 2 players make mistakes.
    Maybe it 'shouldn't' happen, but this isn't 2 competing AI in a computer simulation.

    And there is no way you are changing a prime mechanic of this game like +1's and side noders.
    It's strategy. It's been here for years.

    prime mechanic? lol

    rip:

    • bunker rev
    • druid
    • mirage
    • boon beast

    more in history. let's imagine 3 soulbeasts of equal skill. each with the exact same build and gear. same level of skill. 2 are vs 1. a mistake or two is not gonna allow the 1 to prevail against the 2. you can understand this, yes? I think the side noder will always be the target of the community because it is inherently unfair. it has and will continue to go "bye bye".

    edit: i think you are using a word, but you do not know the meaning. I don't think it means what you think it does.
    avidly; with great interest or enthusiasm
    lol(hardly)
    yes, i chose soulbeast based on your last 15 discussions, you seem to favor ranger and it seemed something you could imagine.

  • Falan.1839Falan.1839 Member ✭✭✭

    That's a pretty big if. Also nerf is relative, in theory Rev was also nerfed last patch...

    Falásya / Caissech

    "When you say it's gonna happen "now"
    When exactly do you mean?
    See I've already waited too long
    And all my hope is gone"
    The Smiths about Balance and PvP changes

  • Gundam Style.8495Gundam Style.8495 Member ✭✭
    edited June 15, 2019

    @Falan.1839 said:
    That's a pretty big if. Also nerf is relative, in theory Rev was also nerfed last patch...

    I would honestly be shocked if SB and Holo are not given some treatment recommended by Bob Barker in the next balance patch. They might not go too ham on the others.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Gundam Style.8495 said:

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:

    @Gundam Style.8495 said:
    This evasive, hard to kill monster they call the Fire Weaver. A sleeper problematic class. I have been seeing up to 3 and 4 games , but minimally 1 per team. I think if the current desired nerfs come through, this will be the new fotm.

    Is this all gw2 pvp is anymore? It's unbalanced while it's working and then ok when it's nerfed?

    It really seems like the idea of a "side node player" is really the over performing item. The concept of being able to keep 2-3 players busy naturally would make that same class a top tier duelist. If they can do those two items, the are already a team fighter. If they can be a side noder they must have some pretty decent mobility. So if we review what side node classes can do, you can also see that they happen to be the ones focused in most complaint threads. Mirage and Druid and the biggest side noders that have been brought down by the efforts of the community. Over-performing specs should be nerfed. Look at Deadeye, all but gone from the scene. Playing the sides isn't really a class role and that is why it is the most frequently attacked. Balanced is okay if classes do different things and have good matchups and poor matchups, as long as they have something to bring to the fight. A typical side class brings too much. It is not "class flavor", instead it is just kitten. If a class has to fight more than 1 v 1, and supposedly the players are of equal skill, they should NEVER win that fight. Regardless of flavors, side noders tend to be over-tuned because they tend to break the numbers rule. And, many times, it is not skill related.

    You said it yourself....equal skill level and therefore I invite you to use a fire weaver against me who will user another class....nah don't worry I won't use any so called FOTM spec, prove the forum the reality of this ..problematic sleeper class and how unkillable it is.

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Gundam Style.8495 said:

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:

    @Gundam Style.8495 said:
    This evasive, hard to kill monster they call the Fire Weaver. A sleeper problematic class. I have been seeing up to 3 and 4 games , but minimally 1 per team. I think if the current desired nerfs come through, this will be the new fotm.

    Is this all gw2 pvp is anymore? It's unbalanced while it's working and then ok when it's nerfed?

    It really seems like the idea of a "side node player" is really the over performing item. The concept of being able to keep 2-3 players busy naturally would make that same class a top tier duelist. If they can do those two items, the are already a team fighter. If they can be a side noder they must have some pretty decent mobility. So if we review what side node classes can do, you can also see that they happen to be the ones focused in most complaint threads. Mirage and Druid and the biggest side noders that have been brought down by the efforts of the community. Over-performing specs should be nerfed. Look at Deadeye, all but gone from the scene. Playing the sides isn't really a class role and that is why it is the most frequently attacked. Balanced is okay if classes do different things and have good matchups and poor matchups, as long as they have something to bring to the fight. A typical side class brings too much. It is not "class flavor", instead it is just kitten. If a class has to fight more than 1 v 1, and supposedly the players are of equal skill, they should NEVER win that fight. Regardless of flavors, side noders tend to be over-tuned because they tend to break the numbers rule. And, many times, it is not skill related.

    You said it yourself....equal skill level and therefore I invite you to use a fire weaver against me who will user another class....nah don't worry I won't use any so called FOTM spec, prove the forum the reality of this ..problematic sleeper class and how unkillable it is.

    Are you trying to bully me? Sounds like you think I have no skill, and you want me to play the class and you can "hopefully" kill me and prove this thread wrong. But before that, don't you main an Ele? Are you not the one who thinks it is so weak despite really good players explaining and PROVING otherwise? It seems like you have the wrong expectations for Ele and therefor will never be satisfied. It is possible you are not as skilled at it as you believe you are. Extreme passion does not always equate extreme skill. We can shush down the issue today. But when the balancing brings those down, it will rise. Better to contemplate softer hits now before the class gets put in the blender or on the bench again. There is a reason I used the word sleeper. Defining it as someone or something unpromising or unnoticed that suddenly attains prominence or value. I am actually getting pretty sick of this musical chairs style of balancing. Who gets to be broke this month? How long will it last? It almost appears as if they (developers) are doing it on purpose. If you kill a monster, there is no need to make another to replace it. Just kill the monsters. Otherwise, we come back to the same circle. Different diaper, same kitten.

  • Megametzler.5729Megametzler.5729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Gundam Style.8495 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Gundam Style.8495 said:

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:

    @Gundam Style.8495 said:
    This evasive, hard to kill monster they call the Fire Weaver. A sleeper problematic class. I have been seeing up to 3 and 4 games , but minimally 1 per team. I think if the current desired nerfs come through, this will be the new fotm.

    Is this all gw2 pvp is anymore? It's unbalanced while it's working and then ok when it's nerfed?

    It really seems like the idea of a "side node player" is really the over performing item. The concept of being able to keep 2-3 players busy naturally would make that same class a top tier duelist. If they can do those two items, the are already a team fighter. If they can be a side noder they must have some pretty decent mobility. So if we review what side node classes can do, you can also see that they happen to be the ones focused in most complaint threads. Mirage and Druid and the biggest side noders that have been brought down by the efforts of the community. Over-performing specs should be nerfed. Look at Deadeye, all but gone from the scene. Playing the sides isn't really a class role and that is why it is the most frequently attacked. Balanced is okay if classes do different things and have good matchups and poor matchups, as long as they have something to bring to the fight. A typical side class brings too much. It is not "class flavor", instead it is just kitten. If a class has to fight more than 1 v 1, and supposedly the players are of equal skill, they should NEVER win that fight. Regardless of flavors, side noders tend to be over-tuned because they tend to break the numbers rule. And, many times, it is not skill related.

    You said it yourself....equal skill level and therefore I invite you to use a fire weaver against me who will user another class....nah don't worry I won't use any so called FOTM spec, prove the forum the reality of this ..problematic sleeper class and how unkillable it is.

    (...) despite really good players explaining and PROVING otherwise? (...)

    Proving as in played in mATs? There was no fire weaver in Plat3 last season on EU.

    Fire weaver is not problematic and won't be. It offers slightly more damage over water, but less sustain and some support in terms of projectile denial instead ov mobility and disengage potential. Just watch out for the glyph, you can actually see it on the buff bar... is that asking for too much?

  • I look at his list in the title. Are those the guys that you see in mATs? Some of them with scourge/fb? Other weavers made it to plat3?
    All problems are solved by simply saying "nah, nope, don't seen none of those here at the top". Sucks to suck sucka lol!

    Can we find other stuff to nerf too? What class is next? Personally, I have a grudge against Renegade.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 15, 2019

    @Gundam Style.8495 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Gundam Style.8495 said:

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:

    @Gundam Style.8495 said:
    This evasive, hard to kill monster they call the Fire Weaver. A sleeper problematic class. I have been seeing up to 3 and 4 games , but minimally 1 per team. I think if the current desired nerfs come through, this will be the new fotm.

    Is this all gw2 pvp is anymore? It's unbalanced while it's working and then ok when it's nerfed?

    It really seems like the idea of a "side node player" is really the over performing item. The concept of being able to keep 2-3 players busy naturally would make that same class a top tier duelist. If they can do those two items, the are already a team fighter. If they can be a side noder they must have some pretty decent mobility. So if we review what side node classes can do, you can also see that they happen to be the ones focused in most complaint threads. Mirage and Druid and the biggest side noders that have been brought down by the efforts of the community. Over-performing specs should be nerfed. Look at Deadeye, all but gone from the scene. Playing the sides isn't really a class role and that is why it is the most frequently attacked. Balanced is okay if classes do different things and have good matchups and poor matchups, as long as they have something to bring to the fight. A typical side class brings too much. It is not "class flavor", instead it is just kitten. If a class has to fight more than 1 v 1, and supposedly the players are of equal skill, they should NEVER win that fight. Regardless of flavors, side noders tend to be over-tuned because they tend to break the numbers rule. And, many times, it is not skill related.

    You said it yourself....equal skill level and therefore I invite you to use a fire weaver against me who will user another class....nah don't worry I won't use any so called FOTM spec, prove the forum the reality of this ..problematic sleeper class and how unkillable it is.

    Are you trying to bully me? Sounds like you think I have no skill, and you want me to play the class and you can "hopefully" kill me and prove this thread wrong. But before that, don't you main an Ele? Are you not the one who thinks it is so weak despite really good players explaining and PROVING otherwise? It seems like you have the wrong expectations for Ele and therefor will never be satisfied. It is possible you are not as skilled at it as you believe you are. Extreme passion does not always equate extreme skill. We can shush down the issue today. But when the balancing brings those down, it will rise. Better to contemplate softer hits now before the class gets put in the blender or on the bench again. There is a reason I used the word sleeper. Defining it as someone or something unpromising or unnoticed that suddenly attains prominence or value. I am actually getting pretty sick of this musical chairs style of balancing. Who gets to be broke this month? How long will it last? It almost appears as if they (developers) are doing it on purpose. If you kill a monster, there is no need to make another to replace it. Just kill the monsters. Otherwise, we come back to the same circle. Different diaper, same kitten.

    First of all state what class you play before going on! Stop using the word top player...no top player ever even mentioned ele and I can give you the reason anytime you want, just said I won't use an ele and you still try to going on and on, I take as you already know you'll lose...still you come here asking for nerfs on a mediocre class you don't even know how to play

    Do we need to assume that everybody posting on this forum is a top player? You lose to an ele who is not even using water line, its only sustain line and you talk about balance...give me a break!

    You see an ele in front of you...and you don't know what to expect watching his elementar bar..you don't know the basics of the ele class, I bet you have must have facetanked a fire ele using primordial stance while you were using whatever fotm busted spec picked few months ago...so ele must be OP GG

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Gundam Style.8495Gundam Style.8495 Member ✭✭
    edited June 15, 2019

    @Megametzler.5729 said:

    @Gundam Style.8495 said:

    (...) despite really good players explaining and PROVING otherwise? (...)

    Proving as in played in mATs? There was no fire weaver in Plat3 last season on EU.

    Fire weaver is not problematic and won't be. It offers slightly more damage over water, but less sustain and some support in terms of projectile denial instead ov mobility and disengage potential. Just watch out for the glyph, you can actually see it on the buff bar... is that asking for too much?

    The snippet you quoted was referring to Ele in general, and not specifically fire weaver. It seems like each class has one specialization that is generally considered useful. It may be the Core spec, HoT spec, or PoF spec. The problem is not so apparent now as it will be WHEN the others get taken down a notch. I honestly believe the developers are trying to take the game, even PvP, in a fresher direction. It may be slow and hard to imagine because of the past, but I got a good feeling about the crew we have now. The "tradeoff" approach they are pushing probably will not stop at druid, daredevil, and berserker. By the way, maybe there are no fire weavers in platinum3, but there are weavers there. They may not be in MATs but I think those that are, are going to lose some presence soon. But, I just wanted to point out that I updated my original post prior to this series including weaver in general and not just specifically fire. If all is balanced, it would be nice if every side noder was just as viable as the next, perhaps just different flavors instead of a must pick.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Gundam Style.8495 said:

    @Megametzler.5729 said:

    @Gundam Style.8495 said:

    (...) despite really good players explaining and PROVING otherwise? (...)

    Proving as in played in mATs? There was no fire weaver in Plat3 last season on EU.

    Fire weaver is not problematic and won't be. It offers slightly more damage over water, but less sustain and some support in terms of projectile denial instead ov mobility and disengage potential. Just watch out for the glyph, you can actually see it on the buff bar... is that asking for too much?

    The snippet you quoted was referring to Ele in general, and not specifically fire weaver. It seems like each class has one specialization that is generally considered useful. It may be the Core spec, HoT spec, or PoF spec. The problem is not so apparent now as it will be WHEN the others get taken down a notch. I honestly believe the developers are trying to take the game, even PvP, in a fresher direction. It may be slow and hard to imagine because of the past, but I got a good feeling about the crew we have now. The "tradeoff" approach they are pushing probably will not stop at druid, daredevil, and berserker. By the way, maybe there are no fire weavers in platinum3, but there are weavers there. They may not be in MATs but I think those that are, are going to lose some presence soon. But, I just wanted to point out that I updated my original post prior to this series including weaver in general and not just specifically fire. If all is balanced, it would be nice if every side noder was just as viable as the next, perhaps just different flavors instead of a must pick.

    There is something called skill level whether you want to accept it or not, the kind of balance you ask...is an absurd concept

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 15, 2019

    First, this assumes all these builds will be nerfed to the ground, which is highly unlikely, if they even get nerfed at all.

    Second, ele is not a good nod attacker. Sure, you can hold the point for a while, and have a okay mobility, but you lack the damage to push enemies off the point in timely fashion.

    Lastly, weaver is susceptible to CC. Highly susceptible to condi if you do not have trait water. And if you do, your damage will drop even further.

    No, weaver will not become our new side nod overloads.

  • @otto.5684 said:
    First, this assumes all these builds will be nerfed to the ground, which is highly unlikely, if they even get nerfed at all.

    Second, ele is not a good nod attacker. Sure, you can hold the point for a while, and have a okay mobility, but you lack the damage to push enemies off the point in timely fashion.

    Lastly, weaver is susceptible to CC. Highly susceptible to condi if you do not have trait water. And if you do, your damage will drop even further.

    No, weaver will not become our new side nod overloads.

    One more time because it sounds funny:
    I would honestly be shocked if SB and Holo are not given some treatment recommended by Bob Barker in the next balance patch. They might not go too ham on the others.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Gundam Style.8495 said:

    @otto.5684 said:
    First, this assumes all these builds will be nerfed to the ground, which is highly unlikely, if they even get nerfed at all.

    Second, ele is not a good nod attacker. Sure, you can hold the point for a while, and have a okay mobility, but you lack the damage to push enemies off the point in timely fashion.

    Lastly, weaver is susceptible to CC. Highly susceptible to condi if you do not have trait water. And if you do, your damage will drop even further.

    No, weaver will not become our new side nod overloads.

    One more time because it sounds funny:
    I would honestly be shocked if SB and Holo are not given some treatment recommended by Bob Barker in the next balance patch. They might not go too ham on the others.

    It did not happen over the last six month. So keep holding the dream bud.

  • Stallic.2397Stallic.2397 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 15, 2019

    @Gundam Style.8495 said:

    I am actually getting pretty sick of this musical chairs style of balancing. Who gets to be broke this month? How long will it last? It almost appears as if they (developers) are doing it on purpose. If you kill a monster, there is no need to make another to replace it. Just kill the monsters. Otherwise, we come back to the same circle. Different diaper, same kitten.

    Sounds like you want to break the wheel, we all know what happened to the last person who said that 😜

  • Megametzler.5729Megametzler.5729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Gundam Style.8495 said:

    @Megametzler.5729 said:

    @Gundam Style.8495 said:

    (...) despite really good players explaining and PROVING otherwise? (...)

    Proving as in played in mATs? There was no fire weaver in Plat3 last season on EU.

    Fire weaver is not problematic and won't be. It offers slightly more damage over water, but less sustain and some support in terms of projectile denial instead ov mobility and disengage potential. Just watch out for the glyph, you can actually see it on the buff bar... is that asking for too much?

    The snippet you quoted was referring to Ele in general, and not specifically fire weaver. It seems like each class has one specialization that is generally considered useful. It may be the Core spec, HoT spec, or PoF spec. The problem is not so apparent now as it will be WHEN the others get taken down a notch. I honestly believe the developers are trying to take the game, even PvP, in a fresher direction. It may be slow and hard to imagine because of the past, but I got a good feeling about the crew we have now. The "tradeoff" approach they are pushing probably will not stop at druid, daredevil, and berserker. By the way, maybe there are no fire weavers in platinum3, but there are weavers there. They may not be in MATs but I think those that are, are going to lose some presence soon. But, I just wanted to point out that I updated my original post prior to this series including weaver in general and not just specifically fire. If all is balanced, it would be nice if every side noder was just as viable as the next, perhaps just different flavors instead of a must pick.

    Ah, I read it as mainly referring to fire weaver.

    Then I agree, with some other specs nerfed, weaver might become as strong as other side noders. Hardly OP, because other bunkers can stall them as well (scrapper, defensive holo builds, druids and stuff), but you never know. It would be well earned for eles though. :wink:

    So, relax and see what happens. I doubt there will be significant nerfs anyways.

  • LazySummer.2568LazySummer.2568 Member ✭✭✭

    you honestly think a balance team that came up with the current form of rampage, daggerstorm, swipe, and basically every single pof espec is capable of nerfing all the classes you listed correctly while simultanouesly leaving weaver unnerfed?

  • Menyus.4610Menyus.4610 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 16, 2019

    @LazySummer.2568 said:
    you honestly think a balance team that came up with the current form of rampage, daggerstorm, swipe, and basically every single pof espec is capable of nerfing all the classes you listed correctly while simultanouesly leaving weaver unnerfed?

    I really dont think daggerstrom is a problem, however im a thief player and might be biased here. I see the fellow players blame it quite many times, but honestly from thief perspective i would only change the improvisation trait, maybe to dont affect elite skills, or completely rework the random skill category recharge tbh.
    Also DS can be negated in so many ways, and can be interrupted too by some skills, it is a great tool for thieves atm, and im afraid we gonna see an even bigger thief population decrease in case of a nerf

  • Weaver is pretty dam close to perfect balance. Changing builds involves alot of tradeoffs. Fire weaver vs water weaver are on two different ends of the spectrum. Fire sacrifices mobility, sustain, and crit damage for increased condi and raw power damage. I could see smothering auras being changed slightly to make fire weaver more vulnerable to condis and thus the sustain worse.

    However, the actions of the weaver is fairly predictable as the buff bar reveals their intent. Swapped to water? Going to heal, #2 sword lays a water field and an evade prob will blast that water field. Swapped to fire? Gonna start putting out condis and damage. Lava skin and primordial stance pop? Back off for 5 seconds or until you stop hearing the electric sounding pusle.

    There will always be a class on top. I think weaver in its current form is a good candidate. Builds have tradeoffs. Skills have sufficent tells and sound cues. Class has a relatively high skill floor and ceiling.

  • Ivarian.9018Ivarian.9018 Member ✭✭

    @Draconious.2751 said:
    I could see smothering auras being changed slightly to make fire weaver more vulnerable to condis and thus the sustain worse.

    If condi removal is nerfed from the fire trait line, there will be not much for it compared with playing water. The condi removal aspect of the fire weaver allows him to fight high condi pressure builds like Mirage and Necro. I will even say that fire weaver is one of their counter today. Let's not forget that a fire weaver must be in close range to apply its burns and is therefore exposed to condi bursting himself when he does not have any sustain to compensate except some evades.

  • Ivarian.9018Ivarian.9018 Member ✭✭
    edited June 18, 2019

    Deleted...Message posted twice.

  • EnderzShadow.2506EnderzShadow.2506 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 17, 2019

    Cheers talking to yourself.

    mhm, ok, sure, whatever you say, no after you, I insist, no really, please, be my guest,

  • Widmo.3186Widmo.3186 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 17, 2019

    xD people complaining about weaver when things like SB, holo, rev, scrapper and other thingys exist, omegalul (why wonder about patches that dont even exist yet? and do you really think that ANet will use magic wand and balance all those mentioned by you classes in one patch? really? just calm down and see what happens, even if "fireweaver monster" will appear, let it exist for one season, Mirage existed for X months and you are crying about something that didnt come real yet).
    You dont want to fight against it, just kite it. S/d has 3 gap closers, 1 being most easiest interruptable dash in the game, the other 2 are 15 and 40s cd. Fireweaver has even less, but compensate if with mid-range CCs. And if u n e e d to fight it, put as much pressure as you can, weaver skills are clumsy and predictable, it looks like evade-machine, but 20s of constant pressure and it's dead.

    If u want to further big-nerf Weaver you can already delete this class, holo (in current state) will eat it all over, chew and spit on the ground. I very rarely say that, but this is L2P issue. Small nerfs for condi damage of Fireweaver, okay, but nothing big. And as far as i know methods of ANet "ele balancing" if there will be any nerfs, they'll nerf it to the ground because they have no idea what they're doing, especially with this class. Thats why I (and many other eles) dont want them to touch it, even with a stick.

    non Fireweaver player speaking, kitten condi builds lol

    Dont mind me, I just randomly spam 35 skill-buttons

  • AlexPlay.8436AlexPlay.8436 Member ✭✭
    edited June 17, 2019

    I play fire weaver in Platinum, it's an average build. And may be an average player may suffer from him (gold level).
    The build is very vulnerable to conditions pressure and CC. Lack of stun-breaks as usual.
    Heal is low.
    Water weaver may handle conditions way better and has way better healing (HPS).
    And like any other signet of restoration weaver, he is very vulnerable to freeze. Freez him and his heal will gone.
    Burning is top applied condition and easily could be removed which leave him without a real damage.
    Also burst is very visible and easily could be avoided. just run bit away for a few seconds until burst of primordial stance will be finished and then you can attack and kill him.

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