Nerf Mantra Mesmers and Revenants - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Nerf Mantra Mesmers and Revenants

24567

Comments

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 15, 2019

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    Power Block is a very balanced trait, the dmg is not high enough to be even near as broken. The only traits need a nerf because they are op in their effects and make Mantra of Distraction rewarding even when only random spammed without interrupting or only interrupting autoattacks are CI and Lost Time. Mantra of Distraction with Powerblock is balanced and only rewards mindful interrupts on more than only autoattacks enough to be worth taking.

    Have you ever try to rupt in a cele meta ?
    I mean a 0.25 sec decaled rupt failed and you are facing opponent under stab/aegis/cele.
    And even when you rupt someone with CI and Lost time what he does is 1 clic dispell and your calculated rupt is nullyfy with random dispell rotation. (Not even count the attacks that can't be rupt because 3 effects in 1.)
    And stop saying things like playing well in a lockbuil when the risk.investment in trait can be countered by simple condiclear. Show me where are the "skilled" players to argue please.

    What? Did you even understand what i said? I said Powerblock is balanced in terms of the reward it gives. It is not too high dmg it is only on interrupts and it is only rewarding enough when you are able to interrupt big skills and not only random interrupting autoattacks. That is why i said an interrupt build only using Powerblock is balanced, has a very high skill ceiling and is in disadvantage vs most other builds in this game even when played very well.

    Lost Time and CI are broken and have a very low skill ceiling and skill floor, they both give way too much reward (too much dmg + slow from Lost Time and an op immob. +might stacking without ICD on CI), so you either doesn't even need to interrupt something to proc it (Lost Time) or the reward is so strong that you don't need to care for what you interrupt, autoattacks are more then enough (CI). They make mesmer way easier and for that noobfriendlier to play. Chaosline in addition also applies forgiving sustain, which is more or less passive because it doesn't effect your active gameplay. These are the big differences to Powerblock. Simple facts.

    That there are other classes with builds even lamer and easier to play than a CI chaosline Powermes is a different story. Both should not exist in terms of getting a game that can separate good from bad players, in terms of getting a way less braindead meta. Balance isn't rly that hard: The easier a build is to play the less rewarding it should be even when played well and the more forgiving facetank ability a build has the less dmg it should make. In both points Anet always failed the balance. All the bruiser have way too much sustain for the dmg they do. And easy builds are often also the strongest (otherwise tell me the logic in Lost Time being able to crit, makes in general way more dmg than powerblock, apllies slow what is way more annoying than weakness, has better synergy with the interrupt nature because it makes interrupting easier but doesn't even need an interrupt to proc? Why is a trait with a higher reward easier to play?).
    In the current meta we have builds are good in everything. Just taking Holo as example it has good facetank ability (less than a war but still too much for the dmg it can do), high resustain ability even can be covered by stabi and stealth, high amount of aoe cc, perma mini burst (a lot even aoe) and good mobility. Holo could be a skillful class if it would be less broken and would have higher cd on keyskills. Atm a bad Holo doesn't even get punished for braindead skill spam because the cds are so low. Anet needs to reduce power creep all over the board and the sustain creep in the same moment. That is why i get cancer when i read dmg increased on skill x in the patch nodes. There is not a single skill in this game need a dmg increase atm. Every unused skill might get viable already by nerfing everything broken into the ground where it belongs.

    I understand what you say and disagree about the : "CI+ lost time easy to play whereas power block is skilled.
    I'm sorry but did you play lockdown against other class than necro ?
    Basically if you time your rupt and wait for the opponent to use a key skill : the opponnent will just keep his stab/teleport/los to cast the keyskill.
    So yeah you may find burning CC on auto bad but you haven't really the choice if you want the opponenent to use his counter CC skills before you can rupt the good one.
    CI is far to be OP : it's basically the condi version of powerblock apart that it can be dispell instantly bt most builds so the reward with CI+LOst time is worst than with the domination line with PB + CS.
    The skillfloor of PB+CS is under the skillfloor of CI+Lost time and not the reverse. What are you even writing like of CI proc when no interruptions ?
    About Lost time alone, it was a dead trait since it's realease. only now it can littlecompete with chronophantasma.

    They make mesmer way easier and for that noobfriendlier to play. Chaosline in addition also applies forgiving sustain, which is more or less passive because it doesn't effect your active gameplay. These are the big differences to Powerblock. Simple facts.

    Ho commong, you want passive ? Look at passive immob/cripple/weakness on thief, passive unstealth on holo, random aoe CC on holo/scourge, SB, 4on 1 skill like bullcharge and so on.
    In which world a trait who make a clic activation does average 1k and proc slow is passive in the current environnement. Wake up !

    That there are other classes with builds even lamer and easier to play than a CI chaosline Powermes is a different story.

    Nonono It's not a different story because we face everyday this kind of pegi 4 class. And you can't remove one class a tool then maintain this on other.

    I'm really angry when I read post like this who try to legitimate "subjective" point of view by saying it's facts.
    I will stay polite but I mainly disagree about what you say and your view of what is "skilling" or not.
    BTW lockdown builds are far to be rewarding considering the difficulty to calculate CC in a meta where many spec have cele or instnant skills. (And average cast time on important skill seems to be 0.25 sec...)
    Actually locks aren't efficient at all. (just 100% stunt on f3 is.)

  • BadMed.3846BadMed.3846 Member ✭✭✭

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @BadMed.3846 said:
    Mesmers always deserve a nerf as they never get under control. Nerf mantras please. And rev just got out of control, nerf it too.
    Fix the game Devs. C'mon.

    These are clearly too many good arguments to not be convinced. Finally a post not just using some empty phrases and shine with game knowledge. The constructivity of this post is mindblowing. Good that these are the ppl anet is listening to when balancing.

    Scroll to read the arguments. OP already made them.

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 15, 2019

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    Power Block is a very balanced trait, the dmg is not high enough to be even near as broken. The only traits need a nerf because they are op in their effects and make Mantra of Distraction rewarding even when only random spammed without interrupting or only interrupting autoattacks are CI and Lost Time. Mantra of Distraction with Powerblock is balanced and only rewards mindful interrupts on more than only autoattacks enough to be worth taking.

    Have you ever try to rupt in a cele meta ?
    I mean a 0.25 sec decaled rupt failed and you are facing opponent under stab/aegis/cele.
    And even when you rupt someone with CI and Lost time what he does is 1 clic dispell and your calculated rupt is nullyfy with random dispell rotation. (Not even count the attacks that can't be rupt because 3 effects in 1.)
    And stop saying things like playing well in a lockbuil when the risk.investment in trait can be countered by simple condiclear. Show me where are the "skilled" players to argue please.

    What? Did you even understand what i said? I said Powerblock is balanced in terms of the reward it gives. It is not too high dmg it is only on interrupts and it is only rewarding enough when you are able to interrupt big skills and not only random interrupting autoattacks. That is why i said an interrupt build only using Powerblock is balanced, has a very high skill ceiling and is in disadvantage vs most other builds in this game even when played very well.

    Lost Time and CI are broken and have a very low skill ceiling and skill floor, they both give way too much reward (too much dmg + slow from Lost Time and an op immob. +might stacking without ICD on CI), so you either doesn't even need to interrupt something to proc it (Lost Time) or the reward is so strong that you don't need to care for what you interrupt, autoattacks are more then enough (CI). They make mesmer way easier and for that noobfriendlier to play. Chaosline in addition also applies forgiving sustain, which is more or less passive because it doesn't effect your active gameplay. These are the big differences to Powerblock. Simple facts.

    That there are other classes with builds even lamer and easier to play than a CI chaosline Powermes is a different story. Both should not exist in terms of getting a game that can separate good from bad players, in terms of getting a way less braindead meta. Balance isn't rly that hard: The easier a build is to play the less rewarding it should be even when played well and the more forgiving facetank ability a build has the less dmg it should make. In both points Anet always failed the balance. All the bruiser have way too much sustain for the dmg they do. And easy builds are often also the strongest (otherwise tell me the logic in Lost Time being able to crit, makes in general way more dmg than powerblock, apllies slow what is way more annoying than weakness, has better synergy with the interrupt nature because it makes interrupting easier but doesn't even need an interrupt to proc? Why is a trait with a higher reward easier to play?).
    In the current meta we have builds are good in everything. Just taking Holo as example it has good facetank ability (less than a war but still too much for the dmg it can do), high resustain ability even can be covered by stabi and stealth, high amount of aoe cc, perma mini burst (a lot even aoe) and good mobility. Holo could be a skillful class if it would be less broken and would have higher cd on keyskills. Atm a bad Holo doesn't even get punished for braindead skill spam because the cds are so low. Anet needs to reduce power creep all over the board and the sustain creep in the same moment. That is why i get cancer when i read dmg increased on skill x in the patch nodes. There is not a single skill in this game need a dmg increase atm. Every unused skill might get viable already by nerfing everything broken into the ground where it belongs.

    I understand what you say and disagree about the : "CI+ lost time easy to play whereas power block is skilled.
    I'm sorry but did you play lockdown against other class than necro ?
    Basically if you time your rupt and wait for the opponent to use a key skill : the opponnent will just keep his stab/teleport/los to cast the keyskill.
    So yeah you may find burning CC on auto bad but you haven't really the choice if you want the opponenent to use his counter CC skills before you can rupt the good one.
    CI is far to be OP : it's basically the condi version of powerblock apart that it can be dispell instantly bt most builds so the reward with CI+LOst time is worst than with the domination line with PB + CS.
    The skillfloor of PB+CS is under the skillfloor of CI+Lost time and not the reverse. What are you even writing like of CI proc when no interruptions ?
    About Lost time alone, it was a dead trait since it's realease. only now it can littlecompete with chronophantasma.

    They make mesmer way easier and for that noobfriendlier to play. Chaosline in addition also applies forgiving sustain, which is more or less passive because it doesn't effect your active gameplay. These are the big differences to Powerblock. Simple facts.

    Ho commong, you want passive ? Look at passive immob/cripple/weakness on thief, passive unstealth on holo, random aoe CC on holo/scourge, SB, 4on 1 skill like bullcharge and so on.
    In which world a trait who make a clic activation does average 1k and proc slow is passive in the current environnement. Wake up !

    That there are other classes with builds even lamer and easier to play than a CI chaosline Powermes is a different story.

    Nonono It's not a different story because we face everyday this kind of pegi 4 class. And you can't remove one class a tool then maintain this on other.

    I'm really angry when I read post like this who try to legitimate "subjective" point of view by saying it's facts.
    I will stay polite but I mainly disagree about what you say and your view of what is "skilling" or not.
    BTW lockdown builds are far to be rewarding considering the difficulty to calculate CC in a meta where many spec have cele or instnant skills. (And average cast time on important skill seems to be 0.25 sec...)
    Actually locks aren't efficient at all. (just 100% stunt on f3 is.)

    Lets agree to disagree then, i argued pretty clear why powerblock is way more skilled than Lost Time and CI. You have more than enough time to interrupt all classes inbetween their cycle of stabi and aegis and ty to the amount of cc you have, you don't need to care for 1 or 2 stacks of stabi, you can remove the stabi stack with a cc chain if needed. Overall the stabi uptime is not too high to make an interrupt build unviable. And i am not crying about Mantra of Distraction being instant and ranged like a lot of clueless mesmer or mantra-hater would do. That Mantra of Distraction works like it does atm is pretty much needed for an interrupt build to make any sense. It is a skillful, reactive, interactive interrupt utility skill, as long as it is not compined with op effects from op traits. Powerblock is not op. I just say CI and Lost Time are overperforming and lower the skill ceiling and floor on mesmer remarkable, in particular compared to powerblock. I was talking to ppl crying about powerblock, telling them that this complain is stupid. So i am even more on your side than most ppl (most not mesmer mains) in this thread.

    Also all big skills have enough casttime to interrupt them on purpose with Mantra of Distraction, there is no need for op traits like CI and Lost Time. Maybe you are too slow in your reaction time then? I don't know. Ofc meta builds need to get nerfed too in the same moment, not denying that. But just because other builds are op doesn't justify op stuff on mesmer. You clearly can play without being carried by Lost Time or CI when you are good enough. I agree that it is clearly hard to do and you need to be rly good compared to meta builds. But if you want an easy life mesmer shouldn't be your class choice at all. A class that has so much active outplay potential when played well should have a high skill floor and ceilling and no access to forgiving passive sustain or a lot of access to easy applied dmg/ strong effects like immob/ stun to not be broken as hell.

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 15, 2019

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    Power Block is a very balanced trait, the dmg is not high enough to be even near as broken. The only traits need a nerf because they are op in their effects and make Mantra of Distraction rewarding even when only random spammed without interrupting or only interrupting autoattacks are CI and Lost Time. Mantra of Distraction with Powerblock is balanced and only rewards mindful interrupts on more than only autoattacks enough to be worth taking.

    Have you ever try to rupt in a cele meta ?
    I mean a 0.25 sec decaled rupt failed and you are facing opponent under stab/aegis/cele.
    And even when you rupt someone with CI and Lost time what he does is 1 clic dispell and your calculated rupt is nullyfy with random dispell rotation. (Not even count the attacks that can't be rupt because 3 effects in 1.)
    And stop saying things like playing well in a lockbuil when the risk.investment in trait can be countered by simple condiclear. Show me where are the "skilled" players to argue please.

    What? Did you even understand what i said? I said Powerblock is balanced in terms of the reward it gives. It is not too high dmg it is only on interrupts and it is only rewarding enough when you are able to interrupt big skills and not only random interrupting autoattacks. That is why i said an interrupt build only using Powerblock is balanced, has a very high skill ceiling and is in disadvantage vs most other builds in this game even when played very well.

    Lost Time and CI are broken and have a very low skill ceiling and skill floor, they both give way too much reward (too much dmg + slow from Lost Time and an op immob. +might stacking without ICD on CI), so you either doesn't even need to interrupt something to proc it (Lost Time) or the reward is so strong that you don't need to care for what you interrupt, autoattacks are more then enough (CI). They make mesmer way easier and for that noobfriendlier to play. Chaosline in addition also applies forgiving sustain, which is more or less passive because it doesn't effect your active gameplay. These are the big differences to Powerblock. Simple facts.

    That there are other classes with builds even lamer and easier to play than a CI chaosline Powermes is a different story. Both should not exist in terms of getting a game that can separate good from bad players, in terms of getting a way less braindead meta. Balance isn't rly that hard: The easier a build is to play the less rewarding it should be even when played well and the more forgiving facetank ability a build has the less dmg it should make. In both points Anet always failed the balance. All the bruiser have way too much sustain for the dmg they do. And easy builds are often also the strongest (otherwise tell me the logic in Lost Time being able to crit, makes in general way more dmg than powerblock, apllies slow what is way more annoying than weakness, has better synergy with the interrupt nature because it makes interrupting easier but doesn't even need an interrupt to proc? Why is a trait with a higher reward easier to play?).
    In the current meta we have builds are good in everything. Just taking Holo as example it has good facetank ability (less than a war but still too much for the dmg it can do), high resustain ability even can be covered by stabi and stealth, high amount of aoe cc, perma mini burst (a lot even aoe) and good mobility. Holo could be a skillful class if it would be less broken and would have higher cd on keyskills. Atm a bad Holo doesn't even get punished for braindead skill spam because the cds are so low. Anet needs to reduce power creep all over the board and the sustain creep in the same moment. That is why i get cancer when i read dmg increased on skill x in the patch nodes. There is not a single skill in this game need a dmg increase atm. Every unused skill might get viable already by nerfing everything broken into the ground where it belongs.

    I understand what you say and disagree about the : "CI+ lost time easy to play whereas power block is skilled.
    I'm sorry but did you play lockdown against other class than necro ?
    Basically if you time your rupt and wait for the opponent to use a key skill : the opponnent will just keep his stab/teleport/los to cast the keyskill.
    So yeah you may find burning CC on auto bad but you haven't really the choice if you want the opponenent to use his counter CC skills before you can rupt the good one.
    CI is far to be OP : it's basically the condi version of powerblock apart that it can be dispell instantly bt most builds so the reward with CI+LOst time is worst than with the domination line with PB + CS.
    The skillfloor of PB+CS is under the skillfloor of CI+Lost time and not the reverse. What are you even writing like of CI proc when no interruptions ?
    About Lost time alone, it was a dead trait since it's realease. only now it can littlecompete with chronophantasma.

    They make mesmer way easier and for that noobfriendlier to play. Chaosline in addition also applies forgiving sustain, which is more or less passive because it doesn't effect your active gameplay. These are the big differences to Powerblock. Simple facts.

    Ho commong, you want passive ? Look at passive immob/cripple/weakness on thief, passive unstealth on holo, random aoe CC on holo/scourge, SB, 4on 1 skill like bullcharge and so on.
    In which world a trait who make a clic activation does average 1k and proc slow is passive in the current environnement. Wake up !

    That there are other classes with builds even lamer and easier to play than a CI chaosline Powermes is a different story.

    Nonono It's not a different story because we face everyday this kind of pegi 4 class. And you can't remove one class a tool then maintain this on other.

    I'm really angry when I read post like this who try to legitimate "subjective" point of view by saying it's facts.
    I will stay polite but I mainly disagree about what you say and your view of what is "skilling" or not.
    BTW lockdown builds are far to be rewarding considering the difficulty to calculate CC in a meta where many spec have cele or instnant skills. (And average cast time on important skill seems to be 0.25 sec...)
    Actually locks aren't efficient at all. (just 100% stunt on f3 is.)

    Lets agree to disagree then, i argued pretty clear why powerblock is way more skilled than Lost Time and CI. You have more than enough time to interrupt all classes inbetween their cycle of stabi and aegis and ty to the amount of cc you have, you don't need to care for 1 or 2 stacks of stabi, you can remove the stabi stack with a cc chain if needed. Overall the stabi uptime is not too high to make an interrupt build unviable. And i am not crying about Mantra of Distraction being instant and ranged like a lot of clueless mesmer or mantra-hater would do. That Mantra of Distraction works like it does atm is pretty much needed for an interrupt build to make any sense. It is a skillful, reactive, interactive interrupt utility skill, as long as it is not compined with op effects from op traits. Powerblock is not op. I just say CI and Lost Time are overperforming and lower the skill ceiling and floor on mesmer remarkable, in particular compared to powerblock. I was talking to ppl crying about powerblock, telling them that this complain is stupid. So i am even more on your side than most ppl (most not mesmer mains) in this thread.

    Also all big skills have enough casttime to interrupt them on purpose with Mantra of Distraction, there is no need for op traits like CI and Lost Time. Maybe you are too slow in your reaction time then? I don't know. Ofc meta builds need to get nerfed too in the same moment, not denying that. But just because other builds are op doesn't justify op stuff on mesmer. You clearly can play without being carried by Lost Time or CI when you are good enough. I agree that it is clearly hard to do and you need to be rly good compared to meta builds. But if you want an easy life mesmer shouldn't be your class choice at all. A class that has so much active outplay potential when played well should have a high skill floor and ceilling and no access of forgiving mistake passive sustain or a lot of access to easy applied dmg/ strong effects like immob to not be broken as hell.

    You argue just that powerblock is a skill who do useless damage and can sometimes be good when you rupt key skill (basically heal.).
    A near useless skill is different than a skilleed skill (moreover with somes ICD bugs.).

    You have more than enough time to interrupt all classes inbetween their cycle of stabi and aegis

    No, apart necro who is eat alive versus lock : thief keyskill can't be rupted, FB keyskill like signet will always be under stab, Holo auto pop stab regulary, rev have easy breakstunt in their rotation when rupted during no evade phases, war can't be immob can FC, SlB will ever be under stab during hist keybusrt etc.

    ty to the amount of cc you have

    2 charges of mantra, 1 random torch fantasm, 1 random staff, F3. Each with a max duration of 1 sec. There is plethora of class in this meta who have hard CC with a hiher duration while not even specing into lock.
    Well this ampunt of CC basically mean that you can't get over more than 3 stacks of stab. If you are lucky and your clones didn't die instatly with a GS burst build you can hope to remove a usefull boon on shatter but it's clearly random.

    Overall the stabi uptime is not too high to make an interrupt build unviable.

    Yeah that's why we see lock mesmers all days... In EU we were two to play lock last season in leaderboard and the second isn't even in top 100.
    The problem isn't only the stabi uptime it's that there is way too much skill have no to low little cast and :

    Maybe you are too slow in your reaction time then?

    I clearly haven't mAt players reaction but objectively, consciently rupt a 0.25 cast skill with average ping is ahead most human reaction time.
    (Other problem is the visual effects (damage, pyrotechnic explosion who hide key skill cast...).)

    I just say CI and Lost Time are overperforming and lower the skill ceiling and floor on mesmer remarkable, in particular compared to powerblock.

    You compare a trait who rarely proc and even when it proc I find the reward low versus a trait (Lost time.) who take part in preparation to next rupt.
    Dunno why you take CI and Lost time in the same board as CI as the same function as Power Block.

    . You clearly can play without being carried by Lost Time or CI when you are good enough.

    Yeah, that's a no lockbuild, and that's how the least top mesmers plays... Because it is more usefull to no play full lock.
    I totally haven't any consideration about other cryers who want nerf because their pegi4 class get destroyed by a mesmer.
    But lock playskills are far to be on the carrying skills actually.

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 15, 2019

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    Power Block is a very balanced trait, the dmg is not high enough to be even near as broken. The only traits need a nerf because they are op in their effects and make Mantra of Distraction rewarding even when only random spammed without interrupting or only interrupting autoattacks are CI and Lost Time. Mantra of Distraction with Powerblock is balanced and only rewards mindful interrupts on more than only autoattacks enough to be worth taking.

    Have you ever try to rupt in a cele meta ?
    I mean a 0.25 sec decaled rupt failed and you are facing opponent under stab/aegis/cele.
    And even when you rupt someone with CI and Lost time what he does is 1 clic dispell and your calculated rupt is nullyfy with random dispell rotation. (Not even count the attacks that can't be rupt because 3 effects in 1.)
    And stop saying things like playing well in a lockbuil when the risk.investment in trait can be countered by simple condiclear. Show me where are the "skilled" players to argue please.

    What? Did you even understand what i said? I said Powerblock is balanced in terms of the reward it gives. It is not too high dmg it is only on interrupts and it is only rewarding enough when you are able to interrupt big skills and not only random interrupting autoattacks. That is why i said an interrupt build only using Powerblock is balanced, has a very high skill ceiling and is in disadvantage vs most other builds in this game even when played very well.

    Lost Time and CI are broken and have a very low skill ceiling and skill floor, they both give way too much reward (too much dmg + slow from Lost Time and an op immob. +might stacking without ICD on CI), so you either doesn't even need to interrupt something to proc it (Lost Time) or the reward is so strong that you don't need to care for what you interrupt, autoattacks are more then enough (CI). They make mesmer way easier and for that noobfriendlier to play. Chaosline in addition also applies forgiving sustain, which is more or less passive because it doesn't effect your active gameplay. These are the big differences to Powerblock. Simple facts.

    That there are other classes with builds even lamer and easier to play than a CI chaosline Powermes is a different story. Both should not exist in terms of getting a game that can separate good from bad players, in terms of getting a way less braindead meta. Balance isn't rly that hard: The easier a build is to play the less rewarding it should be even when played well and the more forgiving facetank ability a build has the less dmg it should make. In both points Anet always failed the balance. All the bruiser have way too much sustain for the dmg they do. And easy builds are often also the strongest (otherwise tell me the logic in Lost Time being able to crit, makes in general way more dmg than powerblock, apllies slow what is way more annoying than weakness, has better synergy with the interrupt nature because it makes interrupting easier but doesn't even need an interrupt to proc? Why is a trait with a higher reward easier to play?).
    In the current meta we have builds are good in everything. Just taking Holo as example it has good facetank ability (less than a war but still too much for the dmg it can do), high resustain ability even can be covered by stabi and stealth, high amount of aoe cc, perma mini burst (a lot even aoe) and good mobility. Holo could be a skillful class if it would be less broken and would have higher cd on keyskills. Atm a bad Holo doesn't even get punished for braindead skill spam because the cds are so low. Anet needs to reduce power creep all over the board and the sustain creep in the same moment. That is why i get cancer when i read dmg increased on skill x in the patch nodes. There is not a single skill in this game need a dmg increase atm. Every unused skill might get viable already by nerfing everything broken into the ground where it belongs.

    I understand what you say and disagree about the : "CI+ lost time easy to play whereas power block is skilled.
    I'm sorry but did you play lockdown against other class than necro ?
    Basically if you time your rupt and wait for the opponent to use a key skill : the opponnent will just keep his stab/teleport/los to cast the keyskill.
    So yeah you may find burning CC on auto bad but you haven't really the choice if you want the opponenent to use his counter CC skills before you can rupt the good one.
    CI is far to be OP : it's basically the condi version of powerblock apart that it can be dispell instantly bt most builds so the reward with CI+LOst time is worst than with the domination line with PB + CS.
    The skillfloor of PB+CS is under the skillfloor of CI+Lost time and not the reverse. What are you even writing like of CI proc when no interruptions ?
    About Lost time alone, it was a dead trait since it's realease. only now it can littlecompete with chronophantasma.

    They make mesmer way easier and for that noobfriendlier to play. Chaosline in addition also applies forgiving sustain, which is more or less passive because it doesn't effect your active gameplay. These are the big differences to Powerblock. Simple facts.

    Ho commong, you want passive ? Look at passive immob/cripple/weakness on thief, passive unstealth on holo, random aoe CC on holo/scourge, SB, 4on 1 skill like bullcharge and so on.
    In which world a trait who make a clic activation does average 1k and proc slow is passive in the current environnement. Wake up !

    That there are other classes with builds even lamer and easier to play than a CI chaosline Powermes is a different story.

    Nonono It's not a different story because we face everyday this kind of pegi 4 class. And you can't remove one class a tool then maintain this on other.

    I'm really angry when I read post like this who try to legitimate "subjective" point of view by saying it's facts.
    I will stay polite but I mainly disagree about what you say and your view of what is "skilling" or not.
    BTW lockdown builds are far to be rewarding considering the difficulty to calculate CC in a meta where many spec have cele or instnant skills. (And average cast time on important skill seems to be 0.25 sec...)
    Actually locks aren't efficient at all. (just 100% stunt on f3 is.)

    Lets agree to disagree then, i argued pretty clear why powerblock is way more skilled than Lost Time and CI. You have more than enough time to interrupt all classes inbetween their cycle of stabi and aegis and ty to the amount of cc you have, you don't need to care for 1 or 2 stacks of stabi, you can remove the stabi stack with a cc chain if needed. Overall the stabi uptime is not too high to make an interrupt build unviable. And i am not crying about Mantra of Distraction being instant and ranged like a lot of clueless mesmer or mantra-hater would do. That Mantra of Distraction works like it does atm is pretty much needed for an interrupt build to make any sense. It is a skillful, reactive, interactive interrupt utility skill, as long as it is not compined with op effects from op traits. Powerblock is not op. I just say CI and Lost Time are overperforming and lower the skill ceiling and floor on mesmer remarkable, in particular compared to powerblock. I was talking to ppl crying about powerblock, telling them that this complain is stupid. So i am even more on your side than most ppl (most not mesmer mains) in this thread.

    Also all big skills have enough casttime to interrupt them on purpose with Mantra of Distraction, there is no need for op traits like CI and Lost Time. Maybe you are too slow in your reaction time then? I don't know. Ofc meta builds need to get nerfed too in the same moment, not denying that. But just because other builds are op doesn't justify op stuff on mesmer. You clearly can play without being carried by Lost Time or CI when you are good enough. I agree that it is clearly hard to do and you need to be rly good compared to meta builds. But if you want an easy life mesmer shouldn't be your class choice at all. A class that has so much active outplay potential when played well should have a high skill floor and ceilling and no access of forgiving mistake passive sustain or a lot of access to easy applied dmg/ strong effects like immob to not be broken as hell.

    You argue just that powerblock is a skill who do useless damage and can sometimes be good when you rupt key skill (basically heal.).
    A near useless skill is different than a skilleed skill (moreover with somes ICD bugs.).

    You have more than enough time to interrupt all classes inbetween their cycle of stabi and aegis

    No, apart necro who is eat alive versus lock : thief keyskill can't be rupted, FB keyskill like signet will always be under stab, Holo auto pop stab regulary, rev have easy breakstunt in their rotation when rupted during no evade phases, war can't be immob can FC, SlB will ever be under stab during hist keybusrt etc.

    ty to the amount of cc you have

    2 charges of mantra, 1 random torch fantasm, 1 random staff, F3. Each with a max duration of 1 sec. There is plethora of class in this meta who have hard CC with a hiher duration while not even specing into lock.
    Well this ampunt of CC basically mean that you can't get over more than 3 stacks of stab. If you are lucky and your clones didn't die instatly with a GS burst build you can hope to remove a usefull boon on shatter but it's clearly random.

    Overall the stabi uptime is not too high to make an interrupt build unviable.

    Yeah that's why we see lock mesmers all days... In EU we were two to play lock last season in leaderboard and the second isn't even in top 100.
    The problem isn't only the stabi uptime it's that there is way too much skill have no to low little cast and :

    Maybe you are too slow in your reaction time then?

    I clearly haven't mAt players reaction but objectively, consciently rupt a 0.25 cast skill with average ping is ahead most human reaction time.
    (Other problem is the visual effects (damage, pyrotechnic explosion who hide key skill cast...).)

    I just say CI and Lost Time are overperforming and lower the skill ceiling and floor on mesmer remarkable, in particular compared to powerblock.

    You compare a trait who rarely proc and even when it proc I find the reward low versus a trait (Lost time.) who take part in preparation to next rupt.
    Dunno why you take CI and Lost time in the same board as CI as the same function as Power Block.

    . You clearly can play without being carried by Lost Time or CI when you are good enough.

    Yeah, that's a no lockbuild, and that's how the least top mesmers plays... Because it is more usefull to no play full lock.
    I totally haven't any consideration about other cryers who want nerf because their pegi4 class get destroyed by a mesmer.
    But lock playskills are far to be on the carrying skills actually.

    As said, lets agree to disagree. Powerblock is not useless, it is just not op and needs skill to be rewarding. That skills like that are considered useless in GW2 just shows how stupidly braindead and broken the meta is in this game. Maybe check Youtube for some high ranked Power Mesmer footage with only Powerblock interrupt gameplay. You will find some. There even was a thread about a video in the pvp forum not long ago. You will find baits to make targets pop their stabi, you will find outplays around stabi uptime, you will find well timed on purpose interrupts on big skills. It is kinda proven that it is possible also on higher skill lvl. Yes that might be an exceptional skill lvl you cannot expect from every random player but as said for these ppl there are 8 other classes to enjoy. I am not good enough to play a power shatter on high skill lvl myself, but i can accept it. I am multiclass player and i play mesmer as long as there are builds available easy enough to carry me. But tbf those builds shouldn't exist for a class with such high active outplay potential. Because in decent and above hands it will always be broken. You just see how much hate it creates when mesmer is balanced around average player like you and me (average in a game with in general very very low average skill lvl).

    @BadMed.3846 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @BadMed.3846 said:
    Mesmers always deserve a nerf as they never get under control. Nerf mantras please. And rev just got out of control, nerf it too.
    Fix the game Devs. C'mon.

    These are clearly too many good arguments to not be convinced. Finally a post not just using some empty phrases and shine with game knowledge. The constructivity of this post is mindblowing. Good that these are the ppl anet is listening to when balancing.

    Scroll to read the arguments. OP already made them.

    Better you scroll and read the 1000 posts explaining why his complains were all more or less wrong

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    Power Block is a very balanced trait, the dmg is not high enough to be even near as broken. The only traits need a nerf because they are op in their effects and make Mantra of Distraction rewarding even when only random spammed without interrupting or only interrupting autoattacks are CI and Lost Time. Mantra of Distraction with Powerblock is balanced and only rewards mindful interrupts on more than only autoattacks enough to be worth taking.

    Have you ever try to rupt in a cele meta ?
    I mean a 0.25 sec decaled rupt failed and you are facing opponent under stab/aegis/cele.
    And even when you rupt someone with CI and Lost time what he does is 1 clic dispell and your calculated rupt is nullyfy with random dispell rotation. (Not even count the attacks that can't be rupt because 3 effects in 1.)
    And stop saying things like playing well in a lockbuil when the risk.investment in trait can be countered by simple condiclear. Show me where are the "skilled" players to argue please.

    What? Did you even understand what i said? I said Powerblock is balanced in terms of the reward it gives. It is not too high dmg it is only on interrupts and it is only rewarding enough when you are able to interrupt big skills and not only random interrupting autoattacks. That is why i said an interrupt build only using Powerblock is balanced, has a very high skill ceiling and is in disadvantage vs most other builds in this game even when played very well.

    Lost Time and CI are broken and have a very low skill ceiling and skill floor, they both give way too much reward (too much dmg + slow from Lost Time and an op immob. +might stacking without ICD on CI), so you either doesn't even need to interrupt something to proc it (Lost Time) or the reward is so strong that you don't need to care for what you interrupt, autoattacks are more then enough (CI). They make mesmer way easier and for that noobfriendlier to play. Chaosline in addition also applies forgiving sustain, which is more or less passive because it doesn't effect your active gameplay. These are the big differences to Powerblock. Simple facts.

    That there are other classes with builds even lamer and easier to play than a CI chaosline Powermes is a different story. Both should not exist in terms of getting a game that can separate good from bad players, in terms of getting a way less braindead meta. Balance isn't rly that hard: The easier a build is to play the less rewarding it should be even when played well and the more forgiving facetank ability a build has the less dmg it should make. In both points Anet always failed the balance. All the bruiser have way too much sustain for the dmg they do. And easy builds are often also the strongest (otherwise tell me the logic in Lost Time being able to crit, makes in general way more dmg than powerblock, apllies slow what is way more annoying than weakness, has better synergy with the interrupt nature because it makes interrupting easier but doesn't even need an interrupt to proc? Why is a trait with a higher reward easier to play?).
    In the current meta we have builds are good in everything. Just taking Holo as example it has good facetank ability (less than a war but still too much for the dmg it can do), high resustain ability even can be covered by stabi and stealth, high amount of aoe cc, perma mini burst (a lot even aoe) and good mobility. Holo could be a skillful class if it would be less broken and would have higher cd on keyskills. Atm a bad Holo doesn't even get punished for braindead skill spam because the cds are so low. Anet needs to reduce power creep all over the board and the sustain creep in the same moment. That is why i get cancer when i read dmg increased on skill x in the patch nodes. There is not a single skill in this game need a dmg increase atm. Every unused skill might get viable already by nerfing everything broken into the ground where it belongs.

    I understand what you say and disagree about the : "CI+ lost time easy to play whereas power block is skilled.
    I'm sorry but did you play lockdown against other class than necro ?
    Basically if you time your rupt and wait for the opponent to use a key skill : the opponnent will just keep his stab/teleport/los to cast the keyskill.
    So yeah you may find burning CC on auto bad but you haven't really the choice if you want the opponenent to use his counter CC skills before you can rupt the good one.
    CI is far to be OP : it's basically the condi version of powerblock apart that it can be dispell instantly bt most builds so the reward with CI+LOst time is worst than with the domination line with PB + CS.
    The skillfloor of PB+CS is under the skillfloor of CI+Lost time and not the reverse. What are you even writing like of CI proc when no interruptions ?
    About Lost time alone, it was a dead trait since it's realease. only now it can littlecompete with chronophantasma.

    They make mesmer way easier and for that noobfriendlier to play. Chaosline in addition also applies forgiving sustain, which is more or less passive because it doesn't effect your active gameplay. These are the big differences to Powerblock. Simple facts.

    Ho commong, you want passive ? Look at passive immob/cripple/weakness on thief, passive unstealth on holo, random aoe CC on holo/scourge, SB, 4on 1 skill like bullcharge and so on.
    In which world a trait who make a clic activation does average 1k and proc slow is passive in the current environnement. Wake up !

    That there are other classes with builds even lamer and easier to play than a CI chaosline Powermes is a different story.

    Nonono It's not a different story because we face everyday this kind of pegi 4 class. And you can't remove one class a tool then maintain this on other.

    I'm really angry when I read post like this who try to legitimate "subjective" point of view by saying it's facts.
    I will stay polite but I mainly disagree about what you say and your view of what is "skilling" or not.
    BTW lockdown builds are far to be rewarding considering the difficulty to calculate CC in a meta where many spec have cele or instnant skills. (And average cast time on important skill seems to be 0.25 sec...)
    Actually locks aren't efficient at all. (just 100% stunt on f3 is.)

    Lets agree to disagree then, i argued pretty clear why powerblock is way more skilled than Lost Time and CI. You have more than enough time to interrupt all classes inbetween their cycle of stabi and aegis and ty to the amount of cc you have, you don't need to care for 1 or 2 stacks of stabi, you can remove the stabi stack with a cc chain if needed. Overall the stabi uptime is not too high to make an interrupt build unviable. And i am not crying about Mantra of Distraction being instant and ranged like a lot of clueless mesmer or mantra-hater would do. That Mantra of Distraction works like it does atm is pretty much needed for an interrupt build to make any sense. It is a skillful, reactive, interactive interrupt utility skill, as long as it is not compined with op effects from op traits. Powerblock is not op. I just say CI and Lost Time are overperforming and lower the skill ceiling and floor on mesmer remarkable, in particular compared to powerblock. I was talking to ppl crying about powerblock, telling them that this complain is stupid. So i am even more on your side than most ppl (most not mesmer mains) in this thread.

    Also all big skills have enough casttime to interrupt them on purpose with Mantra of Distraction, there is no need for op traits like CI and Lost Time. Maybe you are too slow in your reaction time then? I don't know. Ofc meta builds need to get nerfed too in the same moment, not denying that. But just because other builds are op doesn't justify op stuff on mesmer. You clearly can play without being carried by Lost Time or CI when you are good enough. I agree that it is clearly hard to do and you need to be rly good compared to meta builds. But if you want an easy life mesmer shouldn't be your class choice at all. A class that has so much active outplay potential when played well should have a high skill floor and ceilling and no access of forgiving mistake passive sustain or a lot of access to easy applied dmg/ strong effects like immob to not be broken as hell.

    You argue just that powerblock is a skill who do useless damage and can sometimes be good when you rupt key skill (basically heal.).
    A near useless skill is different than a skilleed skill (moreover with somes ICD bugs.).

    You have more than enough time to interrupt all classes inbetween their cycle of stabi and aegis

    No, apart necro who is eat alive versus lock : thief keyskill can't be rupted, FB keyskill like signet will always be under stab, Holo auto pop stab regulary, rev have easy breakstunt in their rotation when rupted during no evade phases, war can't be immob can FC, SlB will ever be under stab during hist keybusrt etc.

    ty to the amount of cc you have

    2 charges of mantra, 1 random torch fantasm, 1 random staff, F3. Each with a max duration of 1 sec. There is plethora of class in this meta who have hard CC with a hiher duration while not even specing into lock.
    Well this ampunt of CC basically mean that you can't get over more than 3 stacks of stab. If you are lucky and your clones didn't die instatly with a GS burst build you can hope to remove a usefull boon on shatter but it's clearly random.

    Overall the stabi uptime is not too high to make an interrupt build unviable.

    Yeah that's why we see lock mesmers all days... In EU we were two to play lock last season in leaderboard and the second isn't even in top 100.
    The problem isn't only the stabi uptime it's that there is way too much skill have no to low little cast and :

    Maybe you are too slow in your reaction time then?

    I clearly haven't mAt players reaction but objectively, consciently rupt a 0.25 cast skill with average ping is ahead most human reaction time.
    (Other problem is the visual effects (damage, pyrotechnic explosion who hide key skill cast...).)

    I just say CI and Lost Time are overperforming and lower the skill ceiling and floor on mesmer remarkable, in particular compared to powerblock.

    You compare a trait who rarely proc and even when it proc I find the reward low versus a trait (Lost time.) who take part in preparation to next rupt.
    Dunno why you take CI and Lost time in the same board as CI as the same function as Power Block.

    . You clearly can play without being carried by Lost Time or CI when you are good enough.

    Yeah, that's a no lockbuild, and that's how the least top mesmers plays... Because it is more usefull to no play full lock.
    I totally haven't any consideration about other cryers who want nerf because their pegi4 class get destroyed by a mesmer.
    But lock playskills are far to be on the carrying skills actually.

    As said, lets agree to disagree. Powerblock is not useless, it is just not op and needs skill to be rewarding. That skills like that are considered useless in GW2 just shows how stupidly braindead and broken the meta is in this game. Maybe check Youtube for some high ranked Power Mesmer footage with only Powerblock interrupt gameplay. You will find some. There even was a thread about a video in the pvp forum not long ago. You will find baits to make targets pop their stabi, you will find outplays around stabi uptime, you will find well timed on purpose interrupts on big skills. It is kinda proven that it is possible also on higher skill lvl. Yes that might be an exceptional skill lvl you cannot expect from every random player but as said for these ppl there are 8 other classes to enjoy. I am not good enough to play a power shatter on high skill lvl myself, but i can accept it. I am multiclass player and i play mesmer as long as there are builds available easy enough to carry me. But tbf those builds shouldn't exist for a class with such high active outplay potential. Because in decent and above hands it will always be broken. You just see how much hate it creates when mesmer is balanced around average player like you and me (average in a game with in general very very low average skill lvl).

    Ok then we remain disagree, I maintain that there is not rewards for playing lock build, particulary with power block. And videos we found on youtube on the subject aren't versus EU top 100 players but versus random plug.

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    Power Block is a very balanced trait, the dmg is not high enough to be even near as broken. The only traits need a nerf because they are op in their effects and make Mantra of Distraction rewarding even when only random spammed without interrupting or only interrupting autoattacks are CI and Lost Time. Mantra of Distraction with Powerblock is balanced and only rewards mindful interrupts on more than only autoattacks enough to be worth taking.

    Have you ever try to rupt in a cele meta ?
    I mean a 0.25 sec decaled rupt failed and you are facing opponent under stab/aegis/cele.
    And even when you rupt someone with CI and Lost time what he does is 1 clic dispell and your calculated rupt is nullyfy with random dispell rotation. (Not even count the attacks that can't be rupt because 3 effects in 1.)
    And stop saying things like playing well in a lockbuil when the risk.investment in trait can be countered by simple condiclear. Show me where are the "skilled" players to argue please.

    What? Did you even understand what i said? I said Powerblock is balanced in terms of the reward it gives. It is not too high dmg it is only on interrupts and it is only rewarding enough when you are able to interrupt big skills and not only random interrupting autoattacks. That is why i said an interrupt build only using Powerblock is balanced, has a very high skill ceiling and is in disadvantage vs most other builds in this game even when played very well.

    Lost Time and CI are broken and have a very low skill ceiling and skill floor, they both give way too much reward (too much dmg + slow from Lost Time and an op immob. +might stacking without ICD on CI), so you either doesn't even need to interrupt something to proc it (Lost Time) or the reward is so strong that you don't need to care for what you interrupt, autoattacks are more then enough (CI). They make mesmer way easier and for that noobfriendlier to play. Chaosline in addition also applies forgiving sustain, which is more or less passive because it doesn't effect your active gameplay. These are the big differences to Powerblock. Simple facts.

    That there are other classes with builds even lamer and easier to play than a CI chaosline Powermes is a different story. Both should not exist in terms of getting a game that can separate good from bad players, in terms of getting a way less braindead meta. Balance isn't rly that hard: The easier a build is to play the less rewarding it should be even when played well and the more forgiving facetank ability a build has the less dmg it should make. In both points Anet always failed the balance. All the bruiser have way too much sustain for the dmg they do. And easy builds are often also the strongest (otherwise tell me the logic in Lost Time being able to crit, makes in general way more dmg than powerblock, apllies slow what is way more annoying than weakness, has better synergy with the interrupt nature because it makes interrupting easier but doesn't even need an interrupt to proc? Why is a trait with a higher reward easier to play?).
    In the current meta we have builds are good in everything. Just taking Holo as example it has good facetank ability (less than a war but still too much for the dmg it can do), high resustain ability even can be covered by stabi and stealth, high amount of aoe cc, perma mini burst (a lot even aoe) and good mobility. Holo could be a skillful class if it would be less broken and would have higher cd on keyskills. Atm a bad Holo doesn't even get punished for braindead skill spam because the cds are so low. Anet needs to reduce power creep all over the board and the sustain creep in the same moment. That is why i get cancer when i read dmg increased on skill x in the patch nodes. There is not a single skill in this game need a dmg increase atm. Every unused skill might get viable already by nerfing everything broken into the ground where it belongs.

    I understand what you say and disagree about the : "CI+ lost time easy to play whereas power block is skilled.
    I'm sorry but did you play lockdown against other class than necro ?
    Basically if you time your rupt and wait for the opponent to use a key skill : the opponnent will just keep his stab/teleport/los to cast the keyskill.
    So yeah you may find burning CC on auto bad but you haven't really the choice if you want the opponenent to use his counter CC skills before you can rupt the good one.
    CI is far to be OP : it's basically the condi version of powerblock apart that it can be dispell instantly bt most builds so the reward with CI+LOst time is worst than with the domination line with PB + CS.
    The skillfloor of PB+CS is under the skillfloor of CI+Lost time and not the reverse. What are you even writing like of CI proc when no interruptions ?
    About Lost time alone, it was a dead trait since it's realease. only now it can littlecompete with chronophantasma.

    They make mesmer way easier and for that noobfriendlier to play. Chaosline in addition also applies forgiving sustain, which is more or less passive because it doesn't effect your active gameplay. These are the big differences to Powerblock. Simple facts.

    Ho commong, you want passive ? Look at passive immob/cripple/weakness on thief, passive unstealth on holo, random aoe CC on holo/scourge, SB, 4on 1 skill like bullcharge and so on.
    In which world a trait who make a clic activation does average 1k and proc slow is passive in the current environnement. Wake up !

    That there are other classes with builds even lamer and easier to play than a CI chaosline Powermes is a different story.

    Nonono It's not a different story because we face everyday this kind of pegi 4 class. And you can't remove one class a tool then maintain this on other.

    I'm really angry when I read post like this who try to legitimate "subjective" point of view by saying it's facts.
    I will stay polite but I mainly disagree about what you say and your view of what is "skilling" or not.
    BTW lockdown builds are far to be rewarding considering the difficulty to calculate CC in a meta where many spec have cele or instnant skills. (And average cast time on important skill seems to be 0.25 sec...)
    Actually locks aren't efficient at all. (just 100% stunt on f3 is.)

    Lets agree to disagree then, i argued pretty clear why powerblock is way more skilled than Lost Time and CI. You have more than enough time to interrupt all classes inbetween their cycle of stabi and aegis and ty to the amount of cc you have, you don't need to care for 1 or 2 stacks of stabi, you can remove the stabi stack with a cc chain if needed. Overall the stabi uptime is not too high to make an interrupt build unviable. And i am not crying about Mantra of Distraction being instant and ranged like a lot of clueless mesmer or mantra-hater would do. That Mantra of Distraction works like it does atm is pretty much needed for an interrupt build to make any sense. It is a skillful, reactive, interactive interrupt utility skill, as long as it is not compined with op effects from op traits. Powerblock is not op. I just say CI and Lost Time are overperforming and lower the skill ceiling and floor on mesmer remarkable, in particular compared to powerblock. I was talking to ppl crying about powerblock, telling them that this complain is stupid. So i am even more on your side than most ppl (most not mesmer mains) in this thread.

    Also all big skills have enough casttime to interrupt them on purpose with Mantra of Distraction, there is no need for op traits like CI and Lost Time. Maybe you are too slow in your reaction time then? I don't know. Ofc meta builds need to get nerfed too in the same moment, not denying that. But just because other builds are op doesn't justify op stuff on mesmer. You clearly can play without being carried by Lost Time or CI when you are good enough. I agree that it is clearly hard to do and you need to be rly good compared to meta builds. But if you want an easy life mesmer shouldn't be your class choice at all. A class that has so much active outplay potential when played well should have a high skill floor and ceilling and no access of forgiving mistake passive sustain or a lot of access to easy applied dmg/ strong effects like immob to not be broken as hell.

    You argue just that powerblock is a skill who do useless damage and can sometimes be good when you rupt key skill (basically heal.).
    A near useless skill is different than a skilleed skill (moreover with somes ICD bugs.).

    You have more than enough time to interrupt all classes inbetween their cycle of stabi and aegis

    No, apart necro who is eat alive versus lock : thief keyskill can't be rupted, FB keyskill like signet will always be under stab, Holo auto pop stab regulary, rev have easy breakstunt in their rotation when rupted during no evade phases, war can't be immob can FC, SlB will ever be under stab during hist keybusrt etc.

    ty to the amount of cc you have

    2 charges of mantra, 1 random torch fantasm, 1 random staff, F3. Each with a max duration of 1 sec. There is plethora of class in this meta who have hard CC with a hiher duration while not even specing into lock.
    Well this ampunt of CC basically mean that you can't get over more than 3 stacks of stab. If you are lucky and your clones didn't die instatly with a GS burst build you can hope to remove a usefull boon on shatter but it's clearly random.

    Overall the stabi uptime is not too high to make an interrupt build unviable.

    Yeah that's why we see lock mesmers all days... In EU we were two to play lock last season in leaderboard and the second isn't even in top 100.
    The problem isn't only the stabi uptime it's that there is way too much skill have no to low little cast and :

    Maybe you are too slow in your reaction time then?

    I clearly haven't mAt players reaction but objectively, consciently rupt a 0.25 cast skill with average ping is ahead most human reaction time.
    (Other problem is the visual effects (damage, pyrotechnic explosion who hide key skill cast...).)

    I just say CI and Lost Time are overperforming and lower the skill ceiling and floor on mesmer remarkable, in particular compared to powerblock.

    You compare a trait who rarely proc and even when it proc I find the reward low versus a trait (Lost time.) who take part in preparation to next rupt.
    Dunno why you take CI and Lost time in the same board as CI as the same function as Power Block.

    . You clearly can play without being carried by Lost Time or CI when you are good enough.

    Yeah, that's a no lockbuild, and that's how the least top mesmers plays... Because it is more usefull to no play full lock.
    I totally haven't any consideration about other cryers who want nerf because their pegi4 class get destroyed by a mesmer.
    But lock playskills are far to be on the carrying skills actually.

    As said, lets agree to disagree. Powerblock is not useless, it is just not op and needs skill to be rewarding. That skills like that are considered useless in GW2 just shows how stupidly braindead and broken the meta is in this game. Maybe check Youtube for some high ranked Power Mesmer footage with only Powerblock interrupt gameplay. You will find some. There even was a thread about a video in the pvp forum not long ago. You will find baits to make targets pop their stabi, you will find outplays around stabi uptime, you will find well timed on purpose interrupts on big skills. It is kinda proven that it is possible also on higher skill lvl. Yes that might be an exceptional skill lvl you cannot expect from every random player but as said for these ppl there are 8 other classes to enjoy. I am not good enough to play a power shatter on high skill lvl myself, but i can accept it. I am multiclass player and i play mesmer as long as there are builds available easy enough to carry me. But tbf those builds shouldn't exist for a class with such high active outplay potential. Because in decent and above hands it will always be broken. You just see how much hate it creates when mesmer is balanced around average player like you and me (average in a game with in general very very low average skill lvl).

    Ok then we remain disagree, I maintain that there is not rewards for playing lock build, particulary with power block. And videos we found on youtube on the subject aren't versus EU top 100 players but versus random plug.

    The video posted not long ago in this forum had more than enough EU legend players involved to give only one example. The mesmer is as far as i saw placed around plat 3/ legend itself. But whatever, believe what you want , if you feel better doing so.

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    Power Block is a very balanced trait, the dmg is not high enough to be even near as broken. The only traits need a nerf because they are op in their effects and make Mantra of Distraction rewarding even when only random spammed without interrupting or only interrupting autoattacks are CI and Lost Time. Mantra of Distraction with Powerblock is balanced and only rewards mindful interrupts on more than only autoattacks enough to be worth taking.

    Have you ever try to rupt in a cele meta ?
    I mean a 0.25 sec decaled rupt failed and you are facing opponent under stab/aegis/cele.
    And even when you rupt someone with CI and Lost time what he does is 1 clic dispell and your calculated rupt is nullyfy with random dispell rotation. (Not even count the attacks that can't be rupt because 3 effects in 1.)
    And stop saying things like playing well in a lockbuil when the risk.investment in trait can be countered by simple condiclear. Show me where are the "skilled" players to argue please.

    What? Did you even understand what i said? I said Powerblock is balanced in terms of the reward it gives. It is not too high dmg it is only on interrupts and it is only rewarding enough when you are able to interrupt big skills and not only random interrupting autoattacks. That is why i said an interrupt build only using Powerblock is balanced, has a very high skill ceiling and is in disadvantage vs most other builds in this game even when played very well.

    Lost Time and CI are broken and have a very low skill ceiling and skill floor, they both give way too much reward (too much dmg + slow from Lost Time and an op immob. +might stacking without ICD on CI), so you either doesn't even need to interrupt something to proc it (Lost Time) or the reward is so strong that you don't need to care for what you interrupt, autoattacks are more then enough (CI). They make mesmer way easier and for that noobfriendlier to play. Chaosline in addition also applies forgiving sustain, which is more or less passive because it doesn't effect your active gameplay. These are the big differences to Powerblock. Simple facts.

    That there are other classes with builds even lamer and easier to play than a CI chaosline Powermes is a different story. Both should not exist in terms of getting a game that can separate good from bad players, in terms of getting a way less braindead meta. Balance isn't rly that hard: The easier a build is to play the less rewarding it should be even when played well and the more forgiving facetank ability a build has the less dmg it should make. In both points Anet always failed the balance. All the bruiser have way too much sustain for the dmg they do. And easy builds are often also the strongest (otherwise tell me the logic in Lost Time being able to crit, makes in general way more dmg than powerblock, apllies slow what is way more annoying than weakness, has better synergy with the interrupt nature because it makes interrupting easier but doesn't even need an interrupt to proc? Why is a trait with a higher reward easier to play?).
    In the current meta we have builds are good in everything. Just taking Holo as example it has good facetank ability (less than a war but still too much for the dmg it can do), high resustain ability even can be covered by stabi and stealth, high amount of aoe cc, perma mini burst (a lot even aoe) and good mobility. Holo could be a skillful class if it would be less broken and would have higher cd on keyskills. Atm a bad Holo doesn't even get punished for braindead skill spam because the cds are so low. Anet needs to reduce power creep all over the board and the sustain creep in the same moment. That is why i get cancer when i read dmg increased on skill x in the patch nodes. There is not a single skill in this game need a dmg increase atm. Every unused skill might get viable already by nerfing everything broken into the ground where it belongs.

    I understand what you say and disagree about the : "CI+ lost time easy to play whereas power block is skilled.
    I'm sorry but did you play lockdown against other class than necro ?
    Basically if you time your rupt and wait for the opponent to use a key skill : the opponnent will just keep his stab/teleport/los to cast the keyskill.
    So yeah you may find burning CC on auto bad but you haven't really the choice if you want the opponenent to use his counter CC skills before you can rupt the good one.
    CI is far to be OP : it's basically the condi version of powerblock apart that it can be dispell instantly bt most builds so the reward with CI+LOst time is worst than with the domination line with PB + CS.
    The skillfloor of PB+CS is under the skillfloor of CI+Lost time and not the reverse. What are you even writing like of CI proc when no interruptions ?
    About Lost time alone, it was a dead trait since it's realease. only now it can littlecompete with chronophantasma.

    They make mesmer way easier and for that noobfriendlier to play. Chaosline in addition also applies forgiving sustain, which is more or less passive because it doesn't effect your active gameplay. These are the big differences to Powerblock. Simple facts.

    Ho commong, you want passive ? Look at passive immob/cripple/weakness on thief, passive unstealth on holo, random aoe CC on holo/scourge, SB, 4on 1 skill like bullcharge and so on.
    In which world a trait who make a clic activation does average 1k and proc slow is passive in the current environnement. Wake up !

    That there are other classes with builds even lamer and easier to play than a CI chaosline Powermes is a different story.

    Nonono It's not a different story because we face everyday this kind of pegi 4 class. And you can't remove one class a tool then maintain this on other.

    I'm really angry when I read post like this who try to legitimate "subjective" point of view by saying it's facts.
    I will stay polite but I mainly disagree about what you say and your view of what is "skilling" or not.
    BTW lockdown builds are far to be rewarding considering the difficulty to calculate CC in a meta where many spec have cele or instnant skills. (And average cast time on important skill seems to be 0.25 sec...)
    Actually locks aren't efficient at all. (just 100% stunt on f3 is.)

    Lets agree to disagree then, i argued pretty clear why powerblock is way more skilled than Lost Time and CI. You have more than enough time to interrupt all classes inbetween their cycle of stabi and aegis and ty to the amount of cc you have, you don't need to care for 1 or 2 stacks of stabi, you can remove the stabi stack with a cc chain if needed. Overall the stabi uptime is not too high to make an interrupt build unviable. And i am not crying about Mantra of Distraction being instant and ranged like a lot of clueless mesmer or mantra-hater would do. That Mantra of Distraction works like it does atm is pretty much needed for an interrupt build to make any sense. It is a skillful, reactive, interactive interrupt utility skill, as long as it is not compined with op effects from op traits. Powerblock is not op. I just say CI and Lost Time are overperforming and lower the skill ceiling and floor on mesmer remarkable, in particular compared to powerblock. I was talking to ppl crying about powerblock, telling them that this complain is stupid. So i am even more on your side than most ppl (most not mesmer mains) in this thread.

    Also all big skills have enough casttime to interrupt them on purpose with Mantra of Distraction, there is no need for op traits like CI and Lost Time. Maybe you are too slow in your reaction time then? I don't know. Ofc meta builds need to get nerfed too in the same moment, not denying that. But just because other builds are op doesn't justify op stuff on mesmer. You clearly can play without being carried by Lost Time or CI when you are good enough. I agree that it is clearly hard to do and you need to be rly good compared to meta builds. But if you want an easy life mesmer shouldn't be your class choice at all. A class that has so much active outplay potential when played well should have a high skill floor and ceilling and no access of forgiving mistake passive sustain or a lot of access to easy applied dmg/ strong effects like immob to not be broken as hell.

    You argue just that powerblock is a skill who do useless damage and can sometimes be good when you rupt key skill (basically heal.).
    A near useless skill is different than a skilleed skill (moreover with somes ICD bugs.).

    You have more than enough time to interrupt all classes inbetween their cycle of stabi and aegis

    No, apart necro who is eat alive versus lock : thief keyskill can't be rupted, FB keyskill like signet will always be under stab, Holo auto pop stab regulary, rev have easy breakstunt in their rotation when rupted during no evade phases, war can't be immob can FC, SlB will ever be under stab during hist keybusrt etc.

    ty to the amount of cc you have

    2 charges of mantra, 1 random torch fantasm, 1 random staff, F3. Each with a max duration of 1 sec. There is plethora of class in this meta who have hard CC with a hiher duration while not even specing into lock.
    Well this ampunt of CC basically mean that you can't get over more than 3 stacks of stab. If you are lucky and your clones didn't die instatly with a GS burst build you can hope to remove a usefull boon on shatter but it's clearly random.

    Overall the stabi uptime is not too high to make an interrupt build unviable.

    Yeah that's why we see lock mesmers all days... In EU we were two to play lock last season in leaderboard and the second isn't even in top 100.
    The problem isn't only the stabi uptime it's that there is way too much skill have no to low little cast and :

    Maybe you are too slow in your reaction time then?

    I clearly haven't mAt players reaction but objectively, consciently rupt a 0.25 cast skill with average ping is ahead most human reaction time.
    (Other problem is the visual effects (damage, pyrotechnic explosion who hide key skill cast...).)

    I just say CI and Lost Time are overperforming and lower the skill ceiling and floor on mesmer remarkable, in particular compared to powerblock.

    You compare a trait who rarely proc and even when it proc I find the reward low versus a trait (Lost time.) who take part in preparation to next rupt.
    Dunno why you take CI and Lost time in the same board as CI as the same function as Power Block.

    . You clearly can play without being carried by Lost Time or CI when you are good enough.

    Yeah, that's a no lockbuild, and that's how the least top mesmers plays... Because it is more usefull to no play full lock.
    I totally haven't any consideration about other cryers who want nerf because their pegi4 class get destroyed by a mesmer.
    But lock playskills are far to be on the carrying skills actually.

    As said, lets agree to disagree. Powerblock is not useless, it is just not op and needs skill to be rewarding. That skills like that are considered useless in GW2 just shows how stupidly braindead and broken the meta is in this game. Maybe check Youtube for some high ranked Power Mesmer footage with only Powerblock interrupt gameplay. You will find some. There even was a thread about a video in the pvp forum not long ago. You will find baits to make targets pop their stabi, you will find outplays around stabi uptime, you will find well timed on purpose interrupts on big skills. It is kinda proven that it is possible also on higher skill lvl. Yes that might be an exceptional skill lvl you cannot expect from every random player but as said for these ppl there are 8 other classes to enjoy. I am not good enough to play a power shatter on high skill lvl myself, but i can accept it. I am multiclass player and i play mesmer as long as there are builds available easy enough to carry me. But tbf those builds shouldn't exist for a class with such high active outplay potential. Because in decent and above hands it will always be broken. You just see how much hate it creates when mesmer is balanced around average player like you and me (average in a game with in general very very low average skill lvl).

    Ok then we remain disagree, I maintain that there is not rewards for playing lock build, particulary with power block. And videos we found on youtube on the subject aren't versus EU top 100 players but versus random plug.

    The video posted not long ago in this forum had more than enough EU legend players involved to give only one example. The mesmer is as far as i saw placed around plat 3/ legend itself. But whatever, believe what you want , if you feel better doing so.

    link please

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 15, 2019

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    Power Block is a very balanced trait, the dmg is not high enough to be even near as broken. The only traits need a nerf because they are op in their effects and make Mantra of Distraction rewarding even when only random spammed without interrupting or only interrupting autoattacks are CI and Lost Time. Mantra of Distraction with Powerblock is balanced and only rewards mindful interrupts on more than only autoattacks enough to be worth taking.

    Have you ever try to rupt in a cele meta ?
    I mean a 0.25 sec decaled rupt failed and you are facing opponent under stab/aegis/cele.
    And even when you rupt someone with CI and Lost time what he does is 1 clic dispell and your calculated rupt is nullyfy with random dispell rotation. (Not even count the attacks that can't be rupt because 3 effects in 1.)
    And stop saying things like playing well in a lockbuil when the risk.investment in trait can be countered by simple condiclear. Show me where are the "skilled" players to argue please.

    What? Did you even understand what i said? I said Powerblock is balanced in terms of the reward it gives. It is not too high dmg it is only on interrupts and it is only rewarding enough when you are able to interrupt big skills and not only random interrupting autoattacks. That is why i said an interrupt build only using Powerblock is balanced, has a very high skill ceiling and is in disadvantage vs most other builds in this game even when played very well.

    Lost Time and CI are broken and have a very low skill ceiling and skill floor, they both give way too much reward (too much dmg + slow from Lost Time and an op immob. +might stacking without ICD on CI), so you either doesn't even need to interrupt something to proc it (Lost Time) or the reward is so strong that you don't need to care for what you interrupt, autoattacks are more then enough (CI). They make mesmer way easier and for that noobfriendlier to play. Chaosline in addition also applies forgiving sustain, which is more or less passive because it doesn't effect your active gameplay. These are the big differences to Powerblock. Simple facts.

    That there are other classes with builds even lamer and easier to play than a CI chaosline Powermes is a different story. Both should not exist in terms of getting a game that can separate good from bad players, in terms of getting a way less braindead meta. Balance isn't rly that hard: The easier a build is to play the less rewarding it should be even when played well and the more forgiving facetank ability a build has the less dmg it should make. In both points Anet always failed the balance. All the bruiser have way too much sustain for the dmg they do. And easy builds are often also the strongest (otherwise tell me the logic in Lost Time being able to crit, makes in general way more dmg than powerblock, apllies slow what is way more annoying than weakness, has better synergy with the interrupt nature because it makes interrupting easier but doesn't even need an interrupt to proc? Why is a trait with a higher reward easier to play?).
    In the current meta we have builds are good in everything. Just taking Holo as example it has good facetank ability (less than a war but still too much for the dmg it can do), high resustain ability even can be covered by stabi and stealth, high amount of aoe cc, perma mini burst (a lot even aoe) and good mobility. Holo could be a skillful class if it would be less broken and would have higher cd on keyskills. Atm a bad Holo doesn't even get punished for braindead skill spam because the cds are so low. Anet needs to reduce power creep all over the board and the sustain creep in the same moment. That is why i get cancer when i read dmg increased on skill x in the patch nodes. There is not a single skill in this game need a dmg increase atm. Every unused skill might get viable already by nerfing everything broken into the ground where it belongs.

    I understand what you say and disagree about the : "CI+ lost time easy to play whereas power block is skilled.
    I'm sorry but did you play lockdown against other class than necro ?
    Basically if you time your rupt and wait for the opponent to use a key skill : the opponnent will just keep his stab/teleport/los to cast the keyskill.
    So yeah you may find burning CC on auto bad but you haven't really the choice if you want the opponenent to use his counter CC skills before you can rupt the good one.
    CI is far to be OP : it's basically the condi version of powerblock apart that it can be dispell instantly bt most builds so the reward with CI+LOst time is worst than with the domination line with PB + CS.
    The skillfloor of PB+CS is under the skillfloor of CI+Lost time and not the reverse. What are you even writing like of CI proc when no interruptions ?
    About Lost time alone, it was a dead trait since it's realease. only now it can littlecompete with chronophantasma.

    They make mesmer way easier and for that noobfriendlier to play. Chaosline in addition also applies forgiving sustain, which is more or less passive because it doesn't effect your active gameplay. These are the big differences to Powerblock. Simple facts.

    Ho commong, you want passive ? Look at passive immob/cripple/weakness on thief, passive unstealth on holo, random aoe CC on holo/scourge, SB, 4on 1 skill like bullcharge and so on.
    In which world a trait who make a clic activation does average 1k and proc slow is passive in the current environnement. Wake up !

    That there are other classes with builds even lamer and easier to play than a CI chaosline Powermes is a different story.

    Nonono It's not a different story because we face everyday this kind of pegi 4 class. And you can't remove one class a tool then maintain this on other.

    I'm really angry when I read post like this who try to legitimate "subjective" point of view by saying it's facts.
    I will stay polite but I mainly disagree about what you say and your view of what is "skilling" or not.
    BTW lockdown builds are far to be rewarding considering the difficulty to calculate CC in a meta where many spec have cele or instnant skills. (And average cast time on important skill seems to be 0.25 sec...)
    Actually locks aren't efficient at all. (just 100% stunt on f3 is.)

    Lets agree to disagree then, i argued pretty clear why powerblock is way more skilled than Lost Time and CI. You have more than enough time to interrupt all classes inbetween their cycle of stabi and aegis and ty to the amount of cc you have, you don't need to care for 1 or 2 stacks of stabi, you can remove the stabi stack with a cc chain if needed. Overall the stabi uptime is not too high to make an interrupt build unviable. And i am not crying about Mantra of Distraction being instant and ranged like a lot of clueless mesmer or mantra-hater would do. That Mantra of Distraction works like it does atm is pretty much needed for an interrupt build to make any sense. It is a skillful, reactive, interactive interrupt utility skill, as long as it is not compined with op effects from op traits. Powerblock is not op. I just say CI and Lost Time are overperforming and lower the skill ceiling and floor on mesmer remarkable, in particular compared to powerblock. I was talking to ppl crying about powerblock, telling them that this complain is stupid. So i am even more on your side than most ppl (most not mesmer mains) in this thread.

    Also all big skills have enough casttime to interrupt them on purpose with Mantra of Distraction, there is no need for op traits like CI and Lost Time. Maybe you are too slow in your reaction time then? I don't know. Ofc meta builds need to get nerfed too in the same moment, not denying that. But just because other builds are op doesn't justify op stuff on mesmer. You clearly can play without being carried by Lost Time or CI when you are good enough. I agree that it is clearly hard to do and you need to be rly good compared to meta builds. But if you want an easy life mesmer shouldn't be your class choice at all. A class that has so much active outplay potential when played well should have a high skill floor and ceilling and no access of forgiving mistake passive sustain or a lot of access to easy applied dmg/ strong effects like immob to not be broken as hell.

    You argue just that powerblock is a skill who do useless damage and can sometimes be good when you rupt key skill (basically heal.).
    A near useless skill is different than a skilleed skill (moreover with somes ICD bugs.).

    You have more than enough time to interrupt all classes inbetween their cycle of stabi and aegis

    No, apart necro who is eat alive versus lock : thief keyskill can't be rupted, FB keyskill like signet will always be under stab, Holo auto pop stab regulary, rev have easy breakstunt in their rotation when rupted during no evade phases, war can't be immob can FC, SlB will ever be under stab during hist keybusrt etc.

    ty to the amount of cc you have

    2 charges of mantra, 1 random torch fantasm, 1 random staff, F3. Each with a max duration of 1 sec. There is plethora of class in this meta who have hard CC with a hiher duration while not even specing into lock.
    Well this ampunt of CC basically mean that you can't get over more than 3 stacks of stab. If you are lucky and your clones didn't die instatly with a GS burst build you can hope to remove a usefull boon on shatter but it's clearly random.

    Overall the stabi uptime is not too high to make an interrupt build unviable.

    Yeah that's why we see lock mesmers all days... In EU we were two to play lock last season in leaderboard and the second isn't even in top 100.
    The problem isn't only the stabi uptime it's that there is way too much skill have no to low little cast and :

    Maybe you are too slow in your reaction time then?

    I clearly haven't mAt players reaction but objectively, consciently rupt a 0.25 cast skill with average ping is ahead most human reaction time.
    (Other problem is the visual effects (damage, pyrotechnic explosion who hide key skill cast...).)

    I just say CI and Lost Time are overperforming and lower the skill ceiling and floor on mesmer remarkable, in particular compared to powerblock.

    You compare a trait who rarely proc and even when it proc I find the reward low versus a trait (Lost time.) who take part in preparation to next rupt.
    Dunno why you take CI and Lost time in the same board as CI as the same function as Power Block.

    . You clearly can play without being carried by Lost Time or CI when you are good enough.

    Yeah, that's a no lockbuild, and that's how the least top mesmers plays... Because it is more usefull to no play full lock.
    I totally haven't any consideration about other cryers who want nerf because their pegi4 class get destroyed by a mesmer.
    But lock playskills are far to be on the carrying skills actually.

    As said, lets agree to disagree. Powerblock is not useless, it is just not op and needs skill to be rewarding. That skills like that are considered useless in GW2 just shows how stupidly braindead and broken the meta is in this game. Maybe check Youtube for some high ranked Power Mesmer footage with only Powerblock interrupt gameplay. You will find some. There even was a thread about a video in the pvp forum not long ago. You will find baits to make targets pop their stabi, you will find outplays around stabi uptime, you will find well timed on purpose interrupts on big skills. It is kinda proven that it is possible also on higher skill lvl. Yes that might be an exceptional skill lvl you cannot expect from every random player but as said for these ppl there are 8 other classes to enjoy. I am not good enough to play a power shatter on high skill lvl myself, but i can accept it. I am multiclass player and i play mesmer as long as there are builds available easy enough to carry me. But tbf those builds shouldn't exist for a class with such high active outplay potential. Because in decent and above hands it will always be broken. You just see how much hate it creates when mesmer is balanced around average player like you and me (average in a game with in general very very low average skill lvl).

    Ok then we remain disagree, I maintain that there is not rewards for playing lock build, particulary with power block. And videos we found on youtube on the subject aren't versus EU top 100 players but versus random plug.

    The video posted not long ago in this forum had more than enough EU legend players involved to give only one example. The mesmer is as far as i saw placed around plat 3/ legend itself. But whatever, believe what you want , if you feel better doing so.

    link please

    Must be hard to skip to pace 2 or 3 to find it after i said it was posted not long ago. But let me search it for you.

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    Power Block is a very balanced trait, the dmg is not high enough to be even near as broken. The only traits need a nerf because they are op in their effects and make Mantra of Distraction rewarding even when only random spammed without interrupting or only interrupting autoattacks are CI and Lost Time. Mantra of Distraction with Powerblock is balanced and only rewards mindful interrupts on more than only autoattacks enough to be worth taking.

    Have you ever try to rupt in a cele meta ?
    I mean a 0.25 sec decaled rupt failed and you are facing opponent under stab/aegis/cele.
    And even when you rupt someone with CI and Lost time what he does is 1 clic dispell and your calculated rupt is nullyfy with random dispell rotation. (Not even count the attacks that can't be rupt because 3 effects in 1.)
    And stop saying things like playing well in a lockbuil when the risk.investment in trait can be countered by simple condiclear. Show me where are the "skilled" players to argue please.

    What? Did you even understand what i said? I said Powerblock is balanced in terms of the reward it gives. It is not too high dmg it is only on interrupts and it is only rewarding enough when you are able to interrupt big skills and not only random interrupting autoattacks. That is why i said an interrupt build only using Powerblock is balanced, has a very high skill ceiling and is in disadvantage vs most other builds in this game even when played very well.

    Lost Time and CI are broken and have a very low skill ceiling and skill floor, they both give way too much reward (too much dmg + slow from Lost Time and an op immob. +might stacking without ICD on CI), so you either doesn't even need to interrupt something to proc it (Lost Time) or the reward is so strong that you don't need to care for what you interrupt, autoattacks are more then enough (CI). They make mesmer way easier and for that noobfriendlier to play. Chaosline in addition also applies forgiving sustain, which is more or less passive because it doesn't effect your active gameplay. These are the big differences to Powerblock. Simple facts.

    That there are other classes with builds even lamer and easier to play than a CI chaosline Powermes is a different story. Both should not exist in terms of getting a game that can separate good from bad players, in terms of getting a way less braindead meta. Balance isn't rly that hard: The easier a build is to play the less rewarding it should be even when played well and the more forgiving facetank ability a build has the less dmg it should make. In both points Anet always failed the balance. All the bruiser have way too much sustain for the dmg they do. And easy builds are often also the strongest (otherwise tell me the logic in Lost Time being able to crit, makes in general way more dmg than powerblock, apllies slow what is way more annoying than weakness, has better synergy with the interrupt nature because it makes interrupting easier but doesn't even need an interrupt to proc? Why is a trait with a higher reward easier to play?).
    In the current meta we have builds are good in everything. Just taking Holo as example it has good facetank ability (less than a war but still too much for the dmg it can do), high resustain ability even can be covered by stabi and stealth, high amount of aoe cc, perma mini burst (a lot even aoe) and good mobility. Holo could be a skillful class if it would be less broken and would have higher cd on keyskills. Atm a bad Holo doesn't even get punished for braindead skill spam because the cds are so low. Anet needs to reduce power creep all over the board and the sustain creep in the same moment. That is why i get cancer when i read dmg increased on skill x in the patch nodes. There is not a single skill in this game need a dmg increase atm. Every unused skill might get viable already by nerfing everything broken into the ground where it belongs.

    I understand what you say and disagree about the : "CI+ lost time easy to play whereas power block is skilled.
    I'm sorry but did you play lockdown against other class than necro ?
    Basically if you time your rupt and wait for the opponent to use a key skill : the opponnent will just keep his stab/teleport/los to cast the keyskill.
    So yeah you may find burning CC on auto bad but you haven't really the choice if you want the opponenent to use his counter CC skills before you can rupt the good one.
    CI is far to be OP : it's basically the condi version of powerblock apart that it can be dispell instantly bt most builds so the reward with CI+LOst time is worst than with the domination line with PB + CS.
    The skillfloor of PB+CS is under the skillfloor of CI+Lost time and not the reverse. What are you even writing like of CI proc when no interruptions ?
    About Lost time alone, it was a dead trait since it's realease. only now it can littlecompete with chronophantasma.

    They make mesmer way easier and for that noobfriendlier to play. Chaosline in addition also applies forgiving sustain, which is more or less passive because it doesn't effect your active gameplay. These are the big differences to Powerblock. Simple facts.

    Ho commong, you want passive ? Look at passive immob/cripple/weakness on thief, passive unstealth on holo, random aoe CC on holo/scourge, SB, 4on 1 skill like bullcharge and so on.
    In which world a trait who make a clic activation does average 1k and proc slow is passive in the current environnement. Wake up !

    That there are other classes with builds even lamer and easier to play than a CI chaosline Powermes is a different story.

    Nonono It's not a different story because we face everyday this kind of pegi 4 class. And you can't remove one class a tool then maintain this on other.

    I'm really angry when I read post like this who try to legitimate "subjective" point of view by saying it's facts.
    I will stay polite but I mainly disagree about what you say and your view of what is "skilling" or not.
    BTW lockdown builds are far to be rewarding considering the difficulty to calculate CC in a meta where many spec have cele or instnant skills. (And average cast time on important skill seems to be 0.25 sec...)
    Actually locks aren't efficient at all. (just 100% stunt on f3 is.)

    Lets agree to disagree then, i argued pretty clear why powerblock is way more skilled than Lost Time and CI. You have more than enough time to interrupt all classes inbetween their cycle of stabi and aegis and ty to the amount of cc you have, you don't need to care for 1 or 2 stacks of stabi, you can remove the stabi stack with a cc chain if needed. Overall the stabi uptime is not too high to make an interrupt build unviable. And i am not crying about Mantra of Distraction being instant and ranged like a lot of clueless mesmer or mantra-hater would do. That Mantra of Distraction works like it does atm is pretty much needed for an interrupt build to make any sense. It is a skillful, reactive, interactive interrupt utility skill, as long as it is not compined with op effects from op traits. Powerblock is not op. I just say CI and Lost Time are overperforming and lower the skill ceiling and floor on mesmer remarkable, in particular compared to powerblock. I was talking to ppl crying about powerblock, telling them that this complain is stupid. So i am even more on your side than most ppl (most not mesmer mains) in this thread.

    Also all big skills have enough casttime to interrupt them on purpose with Mantra of Distraction, there is no need for op traits like CI and Lost Time. Maybe you are too slow in your reaction time then? I don't know. Ofc meta builds need to get nerfed too in the same moment, not denying that. But just because other builds are op doesn't justify op stuff on mesmer. You clearly can play without being carried by Lost Time or CI when you are good enough. I agree that it is clearly hard to do and you need to be rly good compared to meta builds. But if you want an easy life mesmer shouldn't be your class choice at all. A class that has so much active outplay potential when played well should have a high skill floor and ceilling and no access of forgiving mistake passive sustain or a lot of access to easy applied dmg/ strong effects like immob to not be broken as hell.

    You argue just that powerblock is a skill who do useless damage and can sometimes be good when you rupt key skill (basically heal.).
    A near useless skill is different than a skilleed skill (moreover with somes ICD bugs.).

    You have more than enough time to interrupt all classes inbetween their cycle of stabi and aegis

    No, apart necro who is eat alive versus lock : thief keyskill can't be rupted, FB keyskill like signet will always be under stab, Holo auto pop stab regulary, rev have easy breakstunt in their rotation when rupted during no evade phases, war can't be immob can FC, SlB will ever be under stab during hist keybusrt etc.

    ty to the amount of cc you have

    2 charges of mantra, 1 random torch fantasm, 1 random staff, F3. Each with a max duration of 1 sec. There is plethora of class in this meta who have hard CC with a hiher duration while not even specing into lock.
    Well this ampunt of CC basically mean that you can't get over more than 3 stacks of stab. If you are lucky and your clones didn't die instatly with a GS burst build you can hope to remove a usefull boon on shatter but it's clearly random.

    Overall the stabi uptime is not too high to make an interrupt build unviable.

    Yeah that's why we see lock mesmers all days... In EU we were two to play lock last season in leaderboard and the second isn't even in top 100.
    The problem isn't only the stabi uptime it's that there is way too much skill have no to low little cast and :

    Maybe you are too slow in your reaction time then?

    I clearly haven't mAt players reaction but objectively, consciently rupt a 0.25 cast skill with average ping is ahead most human reaction time.
    (Other problem is the visual effects (damage, pyrotechnic explosion who hide key skill cast...).)

    I just say CI and Lost Time are overperforming and lower the skill ceiling and floor on mesmer remarkable, in particular compared to powerblock.

    You compare a trait who rarely proc and even when it proc I find the reward low versus a trait (Lost time.) who take part in preparation to next rupt.
    Dunno why you take CI and Lost time in the same board as CI as the same function as Power Block.

    . You clearly can play without being carried by Lost Time or CI when you are good enough.

    Yeah, that's a no lockbuild, and that's how the least top mesmers plays... Because it is more usefull to no play full lock.
    I totally haven't any consideration about other cryers who want nerf because their pegi4 class get destroyed by a mesmer.
    But lock playskills are far to be on the carrying skills actually.

    As said, lets agree to disagree. Powerblock is not useless, it is just not op and needs skill to be rewarding. That skills like that are considered useless in GW2 just shows how stupidly braindead and broken the meta is in this game. Maybe check Youtube for some high ranked Power Mesmer footage with only Powerblock interrupt gameplay. You will find some. There even was a thread about a video in the pvp forum not long ago. You will find baits to make targets pop their stabi, you will find outplays around stabi uptime, you will find well timed on purpose interrupts on big skills. It is kinda proven that it is possible also on higher skill lvl. Yes that might be an exceptional skill lvl you cannot expect from every random player but as said for these ppl there are 8 other classes to enjoy. I am not good enough to play a power shatter on high skill lvl myself, but i can accept it. I am multiclass player and i play mesmer as long as there are builds available easy enough to carry me. But tbf those builds shouldn't exist for a class with such high active outplay potential. Because in decent and above hands it will always be broken. You just see how much hate it creates when mesmer is balanced around average player like you and me (average in a game with in general very very low average skill lvl).

    Ok then we remain disagree, I maintain that there is not rewards for playing lock build, particulary with power block. And videos we found on youtube on the subject aren't versus EU top 100 players but versus random plug.

    The video posted not long ago in this forum had more than enough EU legend players involved to give only one example. The mesmer is as far as i saw placed around plat 3/ legend itself. But whatever, believe what you want , if you feel better doing so.

    link please

    Must be hard to skip to pace 2 or 3 to find it after i said it was posted not long ago. But let me will search it for you.

    Thanks because if you are talking about Jazz vid, I love the guy and his montage but it remain a montage, not the reality, neither a stream.

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    Power Block is a very balanced trait, the dmg is not high enough to be even near as broken. The only traits need a nerf because they are op in their effects and make Mantra of Distraction rewarding even when only random spammed without interrupting or only interrupting autoattacks are CI and Lost Time. Mantra of Distraction with Powerblock is balanced and only rewards mindful interrupts on more than only autoattacks enough to be worth taking.

    Have you ever try to rupt in a cele meta ?
    I mean a 0.25 sec decaled rupt failed and you are facing opponent under stab/aegis/cele.
    And even when you rupt someone with CI and Lost time what he does is 1 clic dispell and your calculated rupt is nullyfy with random dispell rotation. (Not even count the attacks that can't be rupt because 3 effects in 1.)
    And stop saying things like playing well in a lockbuil when the risk.investment in trait can be countered by simple condiclear. Show me where are the "skilled" players to argue please.

    What? Did you even understand what i said? I said Powerblock is balanced in terms of the reward it gives. It is not too high dmg it is only on interrupts and it is only rewarding enough when you are able to interrupt big skills and not only random interrupting autoattacks. That is why i said an interrupt build only using Powerblock is balanced, has a very high skill ceiling and is in disadvantage vs most other builds in this game even when played very well.

    Lost Time and CI are broken and have a very low skill ceiling and skill floor, they both give way too much reward (too much dmg + slow from Lost Time and an op immob. +might stacking without ICD on CI), so you either doesn't even need to interrupt something to proc it (Lost Time) or the reward is so strong that you don't need to care for what you interrupt, autoattacks are more then enough (CI). They make mesmer way easier and for that noobfriendlier to play. Chaosline in addition also applies forgiving sustain, which is more or less passive because it doesn't effect your active gameplay. These are the big differences to Powerblock. Simple facts.

    That there are other classes with builds even lamer and easier to play than a CI chaosline Powermes is a different story. Both should not exist in terms of getting a game that can separate good from bad players, in terms of getting a way less braindead meta. Balance isn't rly that hard: The easier a build is to play the less rewarding it should be even when played well and the more forgiving facetank ability a build has the less dmg it should make. In both points Anet always failed the balance. All the bruiser have way too much sustain for the dmg they do. And easy builds are often also the strongest (otherwise tell me the logic in Lost Time being able to crit, makes in general way more dmg than powerblock, apllies slow what is way more annoying than weakness, has better synergy with the interrupt nature because it makes interrupting easier but doesn't even need an interrupt to proc? Why is a trait with a higher reward easier to play?).
    In the current meta we have builds are good in everything. Just taking Holo as example it has good facetank ability (less than a war but still too much for the dmg it can do), high resustain ability even can be covered by stabi and stealth, high amount of aoe cc, perma mini burst (a lot even aoe) and good mobility. Holo could be a skillful class if it would be less broken and would have higher cd on keyskills. Atm a bad Holo doesn't even get punished for braindead skill spam because the cds are so low. Anet needs to reduce power creep all over the board and the sustain creep in the same moment. That is why i get cancer when i read dmg increased on skill x in the patch nodes. There is not a single skill in this game need a dmg increase atm. Every unused skill might get viable already by nerfing everything broken into the ground where it belongs.

    I understand what you say and disagree about the : "CI+ lost time easy to play whereas power block is skilled.
    I'm sorry but did you play lockdown against other class than necro ?
    Basically if you time your rupt and wait for the opponent to use a key skill : the opponnent will just keep his stab/teleport/los to cast the keyskill.
    So yeah you may find burning CC on auto bad but you haven't really the choice if you want the opponenent to use his counter CC skills before you can rupt the good one.
    CI is far to be OP : it's basically the condi version of powerblock apart that it can be dispell instantly bt most builds so the reward with CI+LOst time is worst than with the domination line with PB + CS.
    The skillfloor of PB+CS is under the skillfloor of CI+Lost time and not the reverse. What are you even writing like of CI proc when no interruptions ?
    About Lost time alone, it was a dead trait since it's realease. only now it can littlecompete with chronophantasma.

    They make mesmer way easier and for that noobfriendlier to play. Chaosline in addition also applies forgiving sustain, which is more or less passive because it doesn't effect your active gameplay. These are the big differences to Powerblock. Simple facts.

    Ho commong, you want passive ? Look at passive immob/cripple/weakness on thief, passive unstealth on holo, random aoe CC on holo/scourge, SB, 4on 1 skill like bullcharge and so on.
    In which world a trait who make a clic activation does average 1k and proc slow is passive in the current environnement. Wake up !

    That there are other classes with builds even lamer and easier to play than a CI chaosline Powermes is a different story.

    Nonono It's not a different story because we face everyday this kind of pegi 4 class. And you can't remove one class a tool then maintain this on other.

    I'm really angry when I read post like this who try to legitimate "subjective" point of view by saying it's facts.
    I will stay polite but I mainly disagree about what you say and your view of what is "skilling" or not.
    BTW lockdown builds are far to be rewarding considering the difficulty to calculate CC in a meta where many spec have cele or instnant skills. (And average cast time on important skill seems to be 0.25 sec...)
    Actually locks aren't efficient at all. (just 100% stunt on f3 is.)

    Lets agree to disagree then, i argued pretty clear why powerblock is way more skilled than Lost Time and CI. You have more than enough time to interrupt all classes inbetween their cycle of stabi and aegis and ty to the amount of cc you have, you don't need to care for 1 or 2 stacks of stabi, you can remove the stabi stack with a cc chain if needed. Overall the stabi uptime is not too high to make an interrupt build unviable. And i am not crying about Mantra of Distraction being instant and ranged like a lot of clueless mesmer or mantra-hater would do. That Mantra of Distraction works like it does atm is pretty much needed for an interrupt build to make any sense. It is a skillful, reactive, interactive interrupt utility skill, as long as it is not compined with op effects from op traits. Powerblock is not op. I just say CI and Lost Time are overperforming and lower the skill ceiling and floor on mesmer remarkable, in particular compared to powerblock. I was talking to ppl crying about powerblock, telling them that this complain is stupid. So i am even more on your side than most ppl (most not mesmer mains) in this thread.

    Also all big skills have enough casttime to interrupt them on purpose with Mantra of Distraction, there is no need for op traits like CI and Lost Time. Maybe you are too slow in your reaction time then? I don't know. Ofc meta builds need to get nerfed too in the same moment, not denying that. But just because other builds are op doesn't justify op stuff on mesmer. You clearly can play without being carried by Lost Time or CI when you are good enough. I agree that it is clearly hard to do and you need to be rly good compared to meta builds. But if you want an easy life mesmer shouldn't be your class choice at all. A class that has so much active outplay potential when played well should have a high skill floor and ceilling and no access of forgiving mistake passive sustain or a lot of access to easy applied dmg/ strong effects like immob to not be broken as hell.

    You argue just that powerblock is a skill who do useless damage and can sometimes be good when you rupt key skill (basically heal.).
    A near useless skill is different than a skilleed skill (moreover with somes ICD bugs.).

    You have more than enough time to interrupt all classes inbetween their cycle of stabi and aegis

    No, apart necro who is eat alive versus lock : thief keyskill can't be rupted, FB keyskill like signet will always be under stab, Holo auto pop stab regulary, rev have easy breakstunt in their rotation when rupted during no evade phases, war can't be immob can FC, SlB will ever be under stab during hist keybusrt etc.

    ty to the amount of cc you have

    2 charges of mantra, 1 random torch fantasm, 1 random staff, F3. Each with a max duration of 1 sec. There is plethora of class in this meta who have hard CC with a hiher duration while not even specing into lock.
    Well this ampunt of CC basically mean that you can't get over more than 3 stacks of stab. If you are lucky and your clones didn't die instatly with a GS burst build you can hope to remove a usefull boon on shatter but it's clearly random.

    Overall the stabi uptime is not too high to make an interrupt build unviable.

    Yeah that's why we see lock mesmers all days... In EU we were two to play lock last season in leaderboard and the second isn't even in top 100.
    The problem isn't only the stabi uptime it's that there is way too much skill have no to low little cast and :

    Maybe you are too slow in your reaction time then?

    I clearly haven't mAt players reaction but objectively, consciently rupt a 0.25 cast skill with average ping is ahead most human reaction time.
    (Other problem is the visual effects (damage, pyrotechnic explosion who hide key skill cast...).)

    I just say CI and Lost Time are overperforming and lower the skill ceiling and floor on mesmer remarkable, in particular compared to powerblock.

    You compare a trait who rarely proc and even when it proc I find the reward low versus a trait (Lost time.) who take part in preparation to next rupt.
    Dunno why you take CI and Lost time in the same board as CI as the same function as Power Block.

    . You clearly can play without being carried by Lost Time or CI when you are good enough.

    Yeah, that's a no lockbuild, and that's how the least top mesmers plays... Because it is more usefull to no play full lock.
    I totally haven't any consideration about other cryers who want nerf because their pegi4 class get destroyed by a mesmer.
    But lock playskills are far to be on the carrying skills actually.

    As said, lets agree to disagree. Powerblock is not useless, it is just not op and needs skill to be rewarding. That skills like that are considered useless in GW2 just shows how stupidly braindead and broken the meta is in this game. Maybe check Youtube for some high ranked Power Mesmer footage with only Powerblock interrupt gameplay. You will find some. There even was a thread about a video in the pvp forum not long ago. You will find baits to make targets pop their stabi, you will find outplays around stabi uptime, you will find well timed on purpose interrupts on big skills. It is kinda proven that it is possible also on higher skill lvl. Yes that might be an exceptional skill lvl you cannot expect from every random player but as said for these ppl there are 8 other classes to enjoy. I am not good enough to play a power shatter on high skill lvl myself, but i can accept it. I am multiclass player and i play mesmer as long as there are builds available easy enough to carry me. But tbf those builds shouldn't exist for a class with such high active outplay potential. Because in decent and above hands it will always be broken. You just see how much hate it creates when mesmer is balanced around average player like you and me (average in a game with in general very very low average skill lvl).

    Ok then we remain disagree, I maintain that there is not rewards for playing lock build, particulary with power block. And videos we found on youtube on the subject aren't versus EU top 100 players but versus random plug.

    The video posted not long ago in this forum had more than enough EU legend players involved to give only one example. The mesmer is as far as i saw placed around plat 3/ legend itself. But whatever, believe what you want , if you feel better doing so.

    link please

    Must be hard to skip to pace 2 or 3 to find it after i said it was posted not long ago. But let me will search it for you.

    Thanks because if you are talking about Jazz vid, I love the guy and his montage but it remain a montage, not the reality, neither a stream.

    Yes that was the guy. It is on page 2 now. It doesn't matter if it is a montage or not. You can read the gameplay and his rank is plat3/ legend. Means everything you ask for.

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • Vieux P.1238Vieux P.1238 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Yes, as soon we get rid mesmers power zerker build.. Mesmers has no other builds to rely too. Condi build has been killed. Phantasm is nonexistent. The plan is working. Soon after we can kill off necro, holo, war then rangers. Revs is balance. No need to look at it.

    Winter Nerf is coming!

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Jazz is one of the best power mesmers in game if not the best (and Thalia). Not me saying it, someone who duelled all the big names out there.

    The degenerate

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vieux P.1238 said:
    Yes, as soon we get rid mesmers power zerker build.. Mesmers has no other builds to rely too. Condi build has been killed. Phantasm is nonexistent. The plan is working. Soon after we can kill off necro, holo, war then rangers. Revs is balance. No need to look at it.

    I would not call power Mesmer a viable build. As Mesmer currently stands it has zero viable builds in sPvP.

  • Vieux P.1238Vieux P.1238 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Vieux P.1238 said:
    Yes, as soon we get rid mesmers power zerker build.. Mesmers has no other builds to rely too. Condi build has been killed. Phantasm is nonexistent. The plan is working. Soon after we can kill off necro, holo, war then rangers. Revs is balance. No need to look at it.

    I would not call power Mesmer a viable build. As Mesmer currently stands it has zero viable builds in sPvP.

    Not good anoth. I, as a casual pve player to lazy to dodge wants my pvp rank casual playing to fulfill my sensitive needs by getting rid of anything that works on me. So nerf power mirage or any power mersmer build while at it.

    Winter Nerf is coming!

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 15, 2019

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    Power Block is a very balanced trait, the dmg is not high enough to be even near as broken. The only traits need a nerf because they are op in their effects and make Mantra of Distraction rewarding even when only random spammed without interrupting or only interrupting autoattacks are CI and Lost Time. Mantra of Distraction with Powerblock is balanced and only rewards mindful interrupts on more than only autoattacks enough to be worth taking.

    Have you ever try to rupt in a cele meta ?
    I mean a 0.25 sec decaled rupt failed and you are facing opponent under stab/aegis/cele.
    And even when you rupt someone with CI and Lost time what he does is 1 clic dispell and your calculated rupt is nullyfy with random dispell rotation. (Not even count the attacks that can't be rupt because 3 effects in 1.)
    And stop saying things like playing well in a lockbuil when the risk.investment in trait can be countered by simple condiclear. Show me where are the "skilled" players to argue please.

    What? Did you even understand what i said? I said Powerblock is balanced in terms of the reward it gives. It is not too high dmg it is only on interrupts and it is only rewarding enough when you are able to interrupt big skills and not only random interrupting autoattacks. That is why i said an interrupt build only using Powerblock is balanced, has a very high skill ceiling and is in disadvantage vs most other builds in this game even when played very well.

    Lost Time and CI are broken and have a very low skill ceiling and skill floor, they both give way too much reward (too much dmg + slow from Lost Time and an op immob. +might stacking without ICD on CI), so you either doesn't even need to interrupt something to proc it (Lost Time) or the reward is so strong that you don't need to care for what you interrupt, autoattacks are more then enough (CI). They make mesmer way easier and for that noobfriendlier to play. Chaosline in addition also applies forgiving sustain, which is more or less passive because it doesn't effect your active gameplay. These are the big differences to Powerblock. Simple facts.

    That there are other classes with builds even lamer and easier to play than a CI chaosline Powermes is a different story. Both should not exist in terms of getting a game that can separate good from bad players, in terms of getting a way less braindead meta. Balance isn't rly that hard: The easier a build is to play the less rewarding it should be even when played well and the more forgiving facetank ability a build has the less dmg it should make. In both points Anet always failed the balance. All the bruiser have way too much sustain for the dmg they do. And easy builds are often also the strongest (otherwise tell me the logic in Lost Time being able to crit, makes in general way more dmg than powerblock, apllies slow what is way more annoying than weakness, has better synergy with the interrupt nature because it makes interrupting easier but doesn't even need an interrupt to proc? Why is a trait with a higher reward easier to play?).
    In the current meta we have builds are good in everything. Just taking Holo as example it has good facetank ability (less than a war but still too much for the dmg it can do), high resustain ability even can be covered by stabi and stealth, high amount of aoe cc, perma mini burst (a lot even aoe) and good mobility. Holo could be a skillful class if it would be less broken and would have higher cd on keyskills. Atm a bad Holo doesn't even get punished for braindead skill spam because the cds are so low. Anet needs to reduce power creep all over the board and the sustain creep in the same moment. That is why i get cancer when i read dmg increased on skill x in the patch nodes. There is not a single skill in this game need a dmg increase atm. Every unused skill might get viable already by nerfing everything broken into the ground where it belongs.

    I understand what you say and disagree about the : "CI+ lost time easy to play whereas power block is skilled.
    I'm sorry but did you play lockdown against other class than necro ?
    Basically if you time your rupt and wait for the opponent to use a key skill : the opponnent will just keep his stab/teleport/los to cast the keyskill.
    So yeah you may find burning CC on auto bad but you haven't really the choice if you want the opponenent to use his counter CC skills before you can rupt the good one.
    CI is far to be OP : it's basically the condi version of powerblock apart that it can be dispell instantly bt most builds so the reward with CI+LOst time is worst than with the domination line with PB + CS.
    The skillfloor of PB+CS is under the skillfloor of CI+Lost time and not the reverse. What are you even writing like of CI proc when no interruptions ?
    About Lost time alone, it was a dead trait since it's realease. only now it can littlecompete with chronophantasma.

    They make mesmer way easier and for that noobfriendlier to play. Chaosline in addition also applies forgiving sustain, which is more or less passive because it doesn't effect your active gameplay. These are the big differences to Powerblock. Simple facts.

    Ho commong, you want passive ? Look at passive immob/cripple/weakness on thief, passive unstealth on holo, random aoe CC on holo/scourge, SB, 4on 1 skill like bullcharge and so on.
    In which world a trait who make a clic activation does average 1k and proc slow is passive in the current environnement. Wake up !

    That there are other classes with builds even lamer and easier to play than a CI chaosline Powermes is a different story.

    Nonono It's not a different story because we face everyday this kind of pegi 4 class. And you can't remove one class a tool then maintain this on other.

    I'm really angry when I read post like this who try to legitimate "subjective" point of view by saying it's facts.
    I will stay polite but I mainly disagree about what you say and your view of what is "skilling" or not.
    BTW lockdown builds are far to be rewarding considering the difficulty to calculate CC in a meta where many spec have cele or instnant skills. (And average cast time on important skill seems to be 0.25 sec...)
    Actually locks aren't efficient at all. (just 100% stunt on f3 is.)

    Lets agree to disagree then, i argued pretty clear why powerblock is way more skilled than Lost Time and CI. You have more than enough time to interrupt all classes inbetween their cycle of stabi and aegis and ty to the amount of cc you have, you don't need to care for 1 or 2 stacks of stabi, you can remove the stabi stack with a cc chain if needed. Overall the stabi uptime is not too high to make an interrupt build unviable. And i am not crying about Mantra of Distraction being instant and ranged like a lot of clueless mesmer or mantra-hater would do. That Mantra of Distraction works like it does atm is pretty much needed for an interrupt build to make any sense. It is a skillful, reactive, interactive interrupt utility skill, as long as it is not compined with op effects from op traits. Powerblock is not op. I just say CI and Lost Time are overperforming and lower the skill ceiling and floor on mesmer remarkable, in particular compared to powerblock. I was talking to ppl crying about powerblock, telling them that this complain is stupid. So i am even more on your side than most ppl (most not mesmer mains) in this thread.

    Also all big skills have enough casttime to interrupt them on purpose with Mantra of Distraction, there is no need for op traits like CI and Lost Time. Maybe you are too slow in your reaction time then? I don't know. Ofc meta builds need to get nerfed too in the same moment, not denying that. But just because other builds are op doesn't justify op stuff on mesmer. You clearly can play without being carried by Lost Time or CI when you are good enough. I agree that it is clearly hard to do and you need to be rly good compared to meta builds. But if you want an easy life mesmer shouldn't be your class choice at all. A class that has so much active outplay potential when played well should have a high skill floor and ceilling and no access of forgiving mistake passive sustain or a lot of access to easy applied dmg/ strong effects like immob to not be broken as hell.

    You argue just that powerblock is a skill who do useless damage and can sometimes be good when you rupt key skill (basically heal.).
    A near useless skill is different than a skilleed skill (moreover with somes ICD bugs.).

    You have more than enough time to interrupt all classes inbetween their cycle of stabi and aegis

    No, apart necro who is eat alive versus lock : thief keyskill can't be rupted, FB keyskill like signet will always be under stab, Holo auto pop stab regulary, rev have easy breakstunt in their rotation when rupted during no evade phases, war can't be immob can FC, SlB will ever be under stab during hist keybusrt etc.

    ty to the amount of cc you have

    2 charges of mantra, 1 random torch fantasm, 1 random staff, F3. Each with a max duration of 1 sec. There is plethora of class in this meta who have hard CC with a hiher duration while not even specing into lock.
    Well this ampunt of CC basically mean that you can't get over more than 3 stacks of stab. If you are lucky and your clones didn't die instatly with a GS burst build you can hope to remove a usefull boon on shatter but it's clearly random.

    Overall the stabi uptime is not too high to make an interrupt build unviable.

    Yeah that's why we see lock mesmers all days... In EU we were two to play lock last season in leaderboard and the second isn't even in top 100.
    The problem isn't only the stabi uptime it's that there is way too much skill have no to low little cast and :

    Maybe you are too slow in your reaction time then?

    I clearly haven't mAt players reaction but objectively, consciently rupt a 0.25 cast skill with average ping is ahead most human reaction time.
    (Other problem is the visual effects (damage, pyrotechnic explosion who hide key skill cast...).)

    I just say CI and Lost Time are overperforming and lower the skill ceiling and floor on mesmer remarkable, in particular compared to powerblock.

    You compare a trait who rarely proc and even when it proc I find the reward low versus a trait (Lost time.) who take part in preparation to next rupt.
    Dunno why you take CI and Lost time in the same board as CI as the same function as Power Block.

    . You clearly can play without being carried by Lost Time or CI when you are good enough.

    Yeah, that's a no lockbuild, and that's how the least top mesmers plays... Because it is more usefull to no play full lock.
    I totally haven't any consideration about other cryers who want nerf because their pegi4 class get destroyed by a mesmer.
    But lock playskills are far to be on the carrying skills actually.

    As said, lets agree to disagree. Powerblock is not useless, it is just not op and needs skill to be rewarding. That skills like that are considered useless in GW2 just shows how stupidly braindead and broken the meta is in this game. Maybe check Youtube for some high ranked Power Mesmer footage with only Powerblock interrupt gameplay. You will find some. There even was a thread about a video in the pvp forum not long ago. You will find baits to make targets pop their stabi, you will find outplays around stabi uptime, you will find well timed on purpose interrupts on big skills. It is kinda proven that it is possible also on higher skill lvl. Yes that might be an exceptional skill lvl you cannot expect from every random player but as said for these ppl there are 8 other classes to enjoy. I am not good enough to play a power shatter on high skill lvl myself, but i can accept it. I am multiclass player and i play mesmer as long as there are builds available easy enough to carry me. But tbf those builds shouldn't exist for a class with such high active outplay potential. Because in decent and above hands it will always be broken. You just see how much hate it creates when mesmer is balanced around average player like you and me (average in a game with in general very very low average skill lvl).

    Ok then we remain disagree, I maintain that there is not rewards for playing lock build, particulary with power block. And videos we found on youtube on the subject aren't versus EU top 100 players but versus random plug.

    The video posted not long ago in this forum had more than enough EU legend players involved to give only one example. The mesmer is as far as i saw placed around plat 3/ legend itself. But whatever, believe what you want , if you feel better doing so.

    link please

    Must be hard to skip to pace 2 or 3 to find it after i said it was posted not long ago. But let me will search it for you.

    Thanks because if you are talking about Jazz vid, I love the guy and his montage but it remain a montage, not the reality, neither a stream.

    Yes that was the guy. It is on page 2 now. It doesn't matter if it is a montage or not. You can read the gameplay and his rank is plat3/ legend. Means everything you ask for.

    Of course it matter, a montage is done do highligh beautifil actions, that's it, you never see the majority of time were it never work.
    For example in real life, pretty combo with sword 3, success only 10% in reality because in 90%, the clone will be instant killed.

    What i mean is that if you are able to read the game you can clearly see that this build is working even vs top player when played very well. You also are able to see how skilled someone is and because the videos are cuts from very few matches mostly, means you also see that it is not cherry picked like crazy. When you read the gameplay you can see the skill lvl, at least when it is not cherry picked like one good action in a month or something what clearly isn't the case here. His videos usually show bait moves, unique move etc. all very high skilled would not happen for an average player once a year. And the mes is in the rank/ division you asked for.

    But tbh i rly get tired of this discussion, for me it feels like you can't be conviced and contradict every argument no matter what^^ I am sure for you this build will not work (we can agree on that at least), neither for me and most other player in this game, but when you are good enough you can make it work in plat 3/ leg because that at least is proven by his videos.

    Btw how often your sword 3 clone dies before you can port depends a lot with how you use it and i already agreed that with average skill lvl this build will not work in higher ranked pvp.

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    Jazz is one of the best power mesmers in game if not the best (and Thalia). Not me saying it, someone who duelled all the big names out there.

    From what i have seen of him compared to other mesmer footage on youtube and twitch and ingame i even would agree but i never said this build would work for the masses

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 15, 2019

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    Power Block is a very balanced trait, the dmg is not high enough to be even near as broken. The only traits need a nerf because they are op in their effects and make Mantra of Distraction rewarding even when only random spammed without interrupting or only interrupting autoattacks are CI and Lost Time. Mantra of Distraction with Powerblock is balanced and only rewards mindful interrupts on more than only autoattacks enough to be worth taking.

    Have you ever try to rupt in a cele meta ?
    I mean a 0.25 sec decaled rupt failed and you are facing opponent under stab/aegis/cele.
    And even when you rupt someone with CI and Lost time what he does is 1 clic dispell and your calculated rupt is nullyfy with random dispell rotation. (Not even count the attacks that can't be rupt because 3 effects in 1.)
    And stop saying things like playing well in a lockbuil when the risk.investment in trait can be countered by simple condiclear. Show me where are the "skilled" players to argue please.

    What? Did you even understand what i said? I said Powerblock is balanced in terms of the reward it gives. It is not too high dmg it is only on interrupts and it is only rewarding enough when you are able to interrupt big skills and not only random interrupting autoattacks. That is why i said an interrupt build only using Powerblock is balanced, has a very high skill ceiling and is in disadvantage vs most other builds in this game even when played very well.

    Lost Time and CI are broken and have a very low skill ceiling and skill floor, they both give way too much reward (too much dmg + slow from Lost Time and an op immob. +might stacking without ICD on CI), so you either doesn't even need to interrupt something to proc it (Lost Time) or the reward is so strong that you don't need to care for what you interrupt, autoattacks are more then enough (CI). They make mesmer way easier and for that noobfriendlier to play. Chaosline in addition also applies forgiving sustain, which is more or less passive because it doesn't effect your active gameplay. These are the big differences to Powerblock. Simple facts.

    That there are other classes with builds even lamer and easier to play than a CI chaosline Powermes is a different story. Both should not exist in terms of getting a game that can separate good from bad players, in terms of getting a way less braindead meta. Balance isn't rly that hard: The easier a build is to play the less rewarding it should be even when played well and the more forgiving facetank ability a build has the less dmg it should make. In both points Anet always failed the balance. All the bruiser have way too much sustain for the dmg they do. And easy builds are often also the strongest (otherwise tell me the logic in Lost Time being able to crit, makes in general way more dmg than powerblock, apllies slow what is way more annoying than weakness, has better synergy with the interrupt nature because it makes interrupting easier but doesn't even need an interrupt to proc? Why is a trait with a higher reward easier to play?).
    In the current meta we have builds are good in everything. Just taking Holo as example it has good facetank ability (less than a war but still too much for the dmg it can do), high resustain ability even can be covered by stabi and stealth, high amount of aoe cc, perma mini burst (a lot even aoe) and good mobility. Holo could be a skillful class if it would be less broken and would have higher cd on keyskills. Atm a bad Holo doesn't even get punished for braindead skill spam because the cds are so low. Anet needs to reduce power creep all over the board and the sustain creep in the same moment. That is why i get cancer when i read dmg increased on skill x in the patch nodes. There is not a single skill in this game need a dmg increase atm. Every unused skill might get viable already by nerfing everything broken into the ground where it belongs.

    I understand what you say and disagree about the : "CI+ lost time easy to play whereas power block is skilled.
    I'm sorry but did you play lockdown against other class than necro ?
    Basically if you time your rupt and wait for the opponent to use a key skill : the opponnent will just keep his stab/teleport/los to cast the keyskill.
    So yeah you may find burning CC on auto bad but you haven't really the choice if you want the opponenent to use his counter CC skills before you can rupt the good one.
    CI is far to be OP : it's basically the condi version of powerblock apart that it can be dispell instantly bt most builds so the reward with CI+LOst time is worst than with the domination line with PB + CS.
    The skillfloor of PB+CS is under the skillfloor of CI+Lost time and not the reverse. What are you even writing like of CI proc when no interruptions ?
    About Lost time alone, it was a dead trait since it's realease. only now it can littlecompete with chronophantasma.

    They make mesmer way easier and for that noobfriendlier to play. Chaosline in addition also applies forgiving sustain, which is more or less passive because it doesn't effect your active gameplay. These are the big differences to Powerblock. Simple facts.

    Ho commong, you want passive ? Look at passive immob/cripple/weakness on thief, passive unstealth on holo, random aoe CC on holo/scourge, SB, 4on 1 skill like bullcharge and so on.
    In which world a trait who make a clic activation does average 1k and proc slow is passive in the current environnement. Wake up !

    That there are other classes with builds even lamer and easier to play than a CI chaosline Powermes is a different story.

    Nonono It's not a different story because we face everyday this kind of pegi 4 class. And you can't remove one class a tool then maintain this on other.

    I'm really angry when I read post like this who try to legitimate "subjective" point of view by saying it's facts.
    I will stay polite but I mainly disagree about what you say and your view of what is "skilling" or not.
    BTW lockdown builds are far to be rewarding considering the difficulty to calculate CC in a meta where many spec have cele or instnant skills. (And average cast time on important skill seems to be 0.25 sec...)
    Actually locks aren't efficient at all. (just 100% stunt on f3 is.)

    Lets agree to disagree then, i argued pretty clear why powerblock is way more skilled than Lost Time and CI. You have more than enough time to interrupt all classes inbetween their cycle of stabi and aegis and ty to the amount of cc you have, you don't need to care for 1 or 2 stacks of stabi, you can remove the stabi stack with a cc chain if needed. Overall the stabi uptime is not too high to make an interrupt build unviable. And i am not crying about Mantra of Distraction being instant and ranged like a lot of clueless mesmer or mantra-hater would do. That Mantra of Distraction works like it does atm is pretty much needed for an interrupt build to make any sense. It is a skillful, reactive, interactive interrupt utility skill, as long as it is not compined with op effects from op traits. Powerblock is not op. I just say CI and Lost Time are overperforming and lower the skill ceiling and floor on mesmer remarkable, in particular compared to powerblock. I was talking to ppl crying about powerblock, telling them that this complain is stupid. So i am even more on your side than most ppl (most not mesmer mains) in this thread.

    Also all big skills have enough casttime to interrupt them on purpose with Mantra of Distraction, there is no need for op traits like CI and Lost Time. Maybe you are too slow in your reaction time then? I don't know. Ofc meta builds need to get nerfed too in the same moment, not denying that. But just because other builds are op doesn't justify op stuff on mesmer. You clearly can play without being carried by Lost Time or CI when you are good enough. I agree that it is clearly hard to do and you need to be rly good compared to meta builds. But if you want an easy life mesmer shouldn't be your class choice at all. A class that has so much active outplay potential when played well should have a high skill floor and ceilling and no access of forgiving mistake passive sustain or a lot of access to easy applied dmg/ strong effects like immob to not be broken as hell.

    You argue just that powerblock is a skill who do useless damage and can sometimes be good when you rupt key skill (basically heal.).
    A near useless skill is different than a skilleed skill (moreover with somes ICD bugs.).

    You have more than enough time to interrupt all classes inbetween their cycle of stabi and aegis

    No, apart necro who is eat alive versus lock : thief keyskill can't be rupted, FB keyskill like signet will always be under stab, Holo auto pop stab regulary, rev have easy breakstunt in their rotation when rupted during no evade phases, war can't be immob can FC, SlB will ever be under stab during hist keybusrt etc.

    ty to the amount of cc you have

    2 charges of mantra, 1 random torch fantasm, 1 random staff, F3. Each with a max duration of 1 sec. There is plethora of class in this meta who have hard CC with a hiher duration while not even specing into lock.
    Well this ampunt of CC basically mean that you can't get over more than 3 stacks of stab. If you are lucky and your clones didn't die instatly with a GS burst build you can hope to remove a usefull boon on shatter but it's clearly random.

    Overall the stabi uptime is not too high to make an interrupt build unviable.

    Yeah that's why we see lock mesmers all days... In EU we were two to play lock last season in leaderboard and the second isn't even in top 100.
    The problem isn't only the stabi uptime it's that there is way too much skill have no to low little cast and :

    Maybe you are too slow in your reaction time then?

    I clearly haven't mAt players reaction but objectively, consciently rupt a 0.25 cast skill with average ping is ahead most human reaction time.
    (Other problem is the visual effects (damage, pyrotechnic explosion who hide key skill cast...).)

    I just say CI and Lost Time are overperforming and lower the skill ceiling and floor on mesmer remarkable, in particular compared to powerblock.

    You compare a trait who rarely proc and even when it proc I find the reward low versus a trait (Lost time.) who take part in preparation to next rupt.
    Dunno why you take CI and Lost time in the same board as CI as the same function as Power Block.

    . You clearly can play without being carried by Lost Time or CI when you are good enough.

    Yeah, that's a no lockbuild, and that's how the least top mesmers plays... Because it is more usefull to no play full lock.
    I totally haven't any consideration about other cryers who want nerf because their pegi4 class get destroyed by a mesmer.
    But lock playskills are far to be on the carrying skills actually.

    As said, lets agree to disagree. Powerblock is not useless, it is just not op and needs skill to be rewarding. That skills like that are considered useless in GW2 just shows how stupidly braindead and broken the meta is in this game. Maybe check Youtube for some high ranked Power Mesmer footage with only Powerblock interrupt gameplay. You will find some. There even was a thread about a video in the pvp forum not long ago. You will find baits to make targets pop their stabi, you will find outplays around stabi uptime, you will find well timed on purpose interrupts on big skills. It is kinda proven that it is possible also on higher skill lvl. Yes that might be an exceptional skill lvl you cannot expect from every random player but as said for these ppl there are 8 other classes to enjoy. I am not good enough to play a power shatter on high skill lvl myself, but i can accept it. I am multiclass player and i play mesmer as long as there are builds available easy enough to carry me. But tbf those builds shouldn't exist for a class with such high active outplay potential. Because in decent and above hands it will always be broken. You just see how much hate it creates when mesmer is balanced around average player like you and me (average in a game with in general very very low average skill lvl).

    Ok then we remain disagree, I maintain that there is not rewards for playing lock build, particulary with power block. And videos we found on youtube on the subject aren't versus EU top 100 players but versus random plug.

    The video posted not long ago in this forum had more than enough EU legend players involved to give only one example. The mesmer is as far as i saw placed around plat 3/ legend itself. But whatever, believe what you want , if you feel better doing so.

    link please

    Must be hard to skip to pace 2 or 3 to find it after i said it was posted not long ago. But let me will search it for you.

    Thanks because if you are talking about Jazz vid, I love the guy and his montage but it remain a montage, not the reality, neither a stream.

    Yes that was the guy. It is on page 2 now. It doesn't matter if it is a montage or not. You can read the gameplay and his rank is plat3/ legend. Means everything you ask for.

    Of course it matter, a montage is done do highligh beautifil actions, that's it, you never see the majority of time were it never work.
    For example in real life, pretty combo with sword 3, success only 10% in reality because in 90%, the clone will be instant killed.

    What i mean is that if you are able to read the game you can clearly see that this build is working even vs top player when played very well. You also are able to see how skilled someone is and because the videos are cuts from very few matches mostly you also see that it is not cherry picked like crazy. When you read the gameplay you can see the skill lvl, at least when it is not cherry picked like one good action in a month or something what clearly isn't the case here. His videos usually show bait moves, unique move etc. all very high skilled would not happen for an average player once a year. And the mes is in the rank/ division you asked for.

    Nop, waht I see is that most pretty actions aren't done vs top players, and that macths vs good players have more cutting than other. Now I don't want to go on a detailled analysis of the vid because ofc he play well but discuss with him, I 'm sure he can explain how it work on the backsize.
    Ofc he is good, ofc he did actions I never did even while playing mes since 2012 but finally as beautiful as an action can be that's not with this you win game. Prove is that he play better than me and I have better rating which mean it's fun but unefficient.

    But tbh i rly get tired of this discussion, for me it feels like you can't be conviced and contradict every argument no matter what^^ I am sure for you this build will not work (we can agree on that at least), neither for me and most other player in this game, but when you are good enough you can make it work in plat 3/ leg because that at least is proven by his videos.

    Actually last season I ending 33th by playing 75% GS lock burst, 25% condilock burst. So I didn't know if it didn't work for me or not but I'm really frustrated when I face opponent who eat every single lock and kill me in 2 click... Hard for me to find the reward.

    Btw how often your sword 3 clone dies before you can port depends a lot with how you use it and i already agree that with average skill lvl this build will not work in higher ranked pvp.

    Even with high lvl skill it will not work in high lvl.

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 15, 2019

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    Power Block is a very balanced trait, the dmg is not high enough to be even near as broken. The only traits need a nerf because they are op in their effects and make Mantra of Distraction rewarding even when only random spammed without interrupting or only interrupting autoattacks are CI and Lost Time. Mantra of Distraction with Powerblock is balanced and only rewards mindful interrupts on more than only autoattacks enough to be worth taking.

    Have you ever try to rupt in a cele meta ?
    I mean a 0.25 sec decaled rupt failed and you are facing opponent under stab/aegis/cele.
    And even when you rupt someone with CI and Lost time what he does is 1 clic dispell and your calculated rupt is nullyfy with random dispell rotation. (Not even count the attacks that can't be rupt because 3 effects in 1.)
    And stop saying things like playing well in a lockbuil when the risk.investment in trait can be countered by simple condiclear. Show me where are the "skilled" players to argue please.

    What? Did you even understand what i said? I said Powerblock is balanced in terms of the reward it gives. It is not too high dmg it is only on interrupts and it is only rewarding enough when you are able to interrupt big skills and not only random interrupting autoattacks. That is why i said an interrupt build only using Powerblock is balanced, has a very high skill ceiling and is in disadvantage vs most other builds in this game even when played very well.

    Lost Time and CI are broken and have a very low skill ceiling and skill floor, they both give way too much reward (too much dmg + slow from Lost Time and an op immob. +might stacking without ICD on CI), so you either doesn't even need to interrupt something to proc it (Lost Time) or the reward is so strong that you don't need to care for what you interrupt, autoattacks are more then enough (CI). They make mesmer way easier and for that noobfriendlier to play. Chaosline in addition also applies forgiving sustain, which is more or less passive because it doesn't effect your active gameplay. These are the big differences to Powerblock. Simple facts.

    That there are other classes with builds even lamer and easier to play than a CI chaosline Powermes is a different story. Both should not exist in terms of getting a game that can separate good from bad players, in terms of getting a way less braindead meta. Balance isn't rly that hard: The easier a build is to play the less rewarding it should be even when played well and the more forgiving facetank ability a build has the less dmg it should make. In both points Anet always failed the balance. All the bruiser have way too much sustain for the dmg they do. And easy builds are often also the strongest (otherwise tell me the logic in Lost Time being able to crit, makes in general way more dmg than powerblock, apllies slow what is way more annoying than weakness, has better synergy with the interrupt nature because it makes interrupting easier but doesn't even need an interrupt to proc? Why is a trait with a higher reward easier to play?).
    In the current meta we have builds are good in everything. Just taking Holo as example it has good facetank ability (less than a war but still too much for the dmg it can do), high resustain ability even can be covered by stabi and stealth, high amount of aoe cc, perma mini burst (a lot even aoe) and good mobility. Holo could be a skillful class if it would be less broken and would have higher cd on keyskills. Atm a bad Holo doesn't even get punished for braindead skill spam because the cds are so low. Anet needs to reduce power creep all over the board and the sustain creep in the same moment. That is why i get cancer when i read dmg increased on skill x in the patch nodes. There is not a single skill in this game need a dmg increase atm. Every unused skill might get viable already by nerfing everything broken into the ground where it belongs.

    I understand what you say and disagree about the : "CI+ lost time easy to play whereas power block is skilled.
    I'm sorry but did you play lockdown against other class than necro ?
    Basically if you time your rupt and wait for the opponent to use a key skill : the opponnent will just keep his stab/teleport/los to cast the keyskill.
    So yeah you may find burning CC on auto bad but you haven't really the choice if you want the opponenent to use his counter CC skills before you can rupt the good one.
    CI is far to be OP : it's basically the condi version of powerblock apart that it can be dispell instantly bt most builds so the reward with CI+LOst time is worst than with the domination line with PB + CS.
    The skillfloor of PB+CS is under the skillfloor of CI+Lost time and not the reverse. What are you even writing like of CI proc when no interruptions ?
    About Lost time alone, it was a dead trait since it's realease. only now it can littlecompete with chronophantasma.

    They make mesmer way easier and for that noobfriendlier to play. Chaosline in addition also applies forgiving sustain, which is more or less passive because it doesn't effect your active gameplay. These are the big differences to Powerblock. Simple facts.

    Ho commong, you want passive ? Look at passive immob/cripple/weakness on thief, passive unstealth on holo, random aoe CC on holo/scourge, SB, 4on 1 skill like bullcharge and so on.
    In which world a trait who make a clic activation does average 1k and proc slow is passive in the current environnement. Wake up !

    That there are other classes with builds even lamer and easier to play than a CI chaosline Powermes is a different story.

    Nonono It's not a different story because we face everyday this kind of pegi 4 class. And you can't remove one class a tool then maintain this on other.

    I'm really angry when I read post like this who try to legitimate "subjective" point of view by saying it's facts.
    I will stay polite but I mainly disagree about what you say and your view of what is "skilling" or not.
    BTW lockdown builds are far to be rewarding considering the difficulty to calculate CC in a meta where many spec have cele or instnant skills. (And average cast time on important skill seems to be 0.25 sec...)
    Actually locks aren't efficient at all. (just 100% stunt on f3 is.)

    Lets agree to disagree then, i argued pretty clear why powerblock is way more skilled than Lost Time and CI. You have more than enough time to interrupt all classes inbetween their cycle of stabi and aegis and ty to the amount of cc you have, you don't need to care for 1 or 2 stacks of stabi, you can remove the stabi stack with a cc chain if needed. Overall the stabi uptime is not too high to make an interrupt build unviable. And i am not crying about Mantra of Distraction being instant and ranged like a lot of clueless mesmer or mantra-hater would do. That Mantra of Distraction works like it does atm is pretty much needed for an interrupt build to make any sense. It is a skillful, reactive, interactive interrupt utility skill, as long as it is not compined with op effects from op traits. Powerblock is not op. I just say CI and Lost Time are overperforming and lower the skill ceiling and floor on mesmer remarkable, in particular compared to powerblock. I was talking to ppl crying about powerblock, telling them that this complain is stupid. So i am even more on your side than most ppl (most not mesmer mains) in this thread.

    Also all big skills have enough casttime to interrupt them on purpose with Mantra of Distraction, there is no need for op traits like CI and Lost Time. Maybe you are too slow in your reaction time then? I don't know. Ofc meta builds need to get nerfed too in the same moment, not denying that. But just because other builds are op doesn't justify op stuff on mesmer. You clearly can play without being carried by Lost Time or CI when you are good enough. I agree that it is clearly hard to do and you need to be rly good compared to meta builds. But if you want an easy life mesmer shouldn't be your class choice at all. A class that has so much active outplay potential when played well should have a high skill floor and ceilling and no access of forgiving mistake passive sustain or a lot of access to easy applied dmg/ strong effects like immob to not be broken as hell.

    You argue just that powerblock is a skill who do useless damage and can sometimes be good when you rupt key skill (basically heal.).
    A near useless skill is different than a skilleed skill (moreover with somes ICD bugs.).

    You have more than enough time to interrupt all classes inbetween their cycle of stabi and aegis

    No, apart necro who is eat alive versus lock : thief keyskill can't be rupted, FB keyskill like signet will always be under stab, Holo auto pop stab regulary, rev have easy breakstunt in their rotation when rupted during no evade phases, war can't be immob can FC, SlB will ever be under stab during hist keybusrt etc.

    ty to the amount of cc you have

    2 charges of mantra, 1 random torch fantasm, 1 random staff, F3. Each with a max duration of 1 sec. There is plethora of class in this meta who have hard CC with a hiher duration while not even specing into lock.
    Well this ampunt of CC basically mean that you can't get over more than 3 stacks of stab. If you are lucky and your clones didn't die instatly with a GS burst build you can hope to remove a usefull boon on shatter but it's clearly random.

    Overall the stabi uptime is not too high to make an interrupt build unviable.

    Yeah that's why we see lock mesmers all days... In EU we were two to play lock last season in leaderboard and the second isn't even in top 100.
    The problem isn't only the stabi uptime it's that there is way too much skill have no to low little cast and :

    Maybe you are too slow in your reaction time then?

    I clearly haven't mAt players reaction but objectively, consciently rupt a 0.25 cast skill with average ping is ahead most human reaction time.
    (Other problem is the visual effects (damage, pyrotechnic explosion who hide key skill cast...).)

    I just say CI and Lost Time are overperforming and lower the skill ceiling and floor on mesmer remarkable, in particular compared to powerblock.

    You compare a trait who rarely proc and even when it proc I find the reward low versus a trait (Lost time.) who take part in preparation to next rupt.
    Dunno why you take CI and Lost time in the same board as CI as the same function as Power Block.

    . You clearly can play without being carried by Lost Time or CI when you are good enough.

    Yeah, that's a no lockbuild, and that's how the least top mesmers plays... Because it is more usefull to no play full lock.
    I totally haven't any consideration about other cryers who want nerf because their pegi4 class get destroyed by a mesmer.
    But lock playskills are far to be on the carrying skills actually.

    As said, lets agree to disagree. Powerblock is not useless, it is just not op and needs skill to be rewarding. That skills like that are considered useless in GW2 just shows how stupidly braindead and broken the meta is in this game. Maybe check Youtube for some high ranked Power Mesmer footage with only Powerblock interrupt gameplay. You will find some. There even was a thread about a video in the pvp forum not long ago. You will find baits to make targets pop their stabi, you will find outplays around stabi uptime, you will find well timed on purpose interrupts on big skills. It is kinda proven that it is possible also on higher skill lvl. Yes that might be an exceptional skill lvl you cannot expect from every random player but as said for these ppl there are 8 other classes to enjoy. I am not good enough to play a power shatter on high skill lvl myself, but i can accept it. I am multiclass player and i play mesmer as long as there are builds available easy enough to carry me. But tbf those builds shouldn't exist for a class with such high active outplay potential. Because in decent and above hands it will always be broken. You just see how much hate it creates when mesmer is balanced around average player like you and me (average in a game with in general very very low average skill lvl).

    Ok then we remain disagree, I maintain that there is not rewards for playing lock build, particulary with power block. And videos we found on youtube on the subject aren't versus EU top 100 players but versus random plug.

    The video posted not long ago in this forum had more than enough EU legend players involved to give only one example. The mesmer is as far as i saw placed around plat 3/ legend itself. But whatever, believe what you want , if you feel better doing so.

    link please

    Must be hard to skip to pace 2 or 3 to find it after i said it was posted not long ago. But let me will search it for you.

    Thanks because if you are talking about Jazz vid, I love the guy and his montage but it remain a montage, not the reality, neither a stream.

    Yes that was the guy. It is on page 2 now. It doesn't matter if it is a montage or not. You can read the gameplay and his rank is plat3/ legend. Means everything you ask for.

    Of course it matter, a montage is done do highligh beautifil actions, that's it, you never see the majority of time were it never work.
    For example in real life, pretty combo with sword 3, success only 10% in reality because in 90%, the clone will be instant killed.

    What i mean is that if you are able to read the game you can clearly see that this build is working even vs top player when played very well. You also are able to see how skilled someone is and because the videos are cuts from very few matches mostly you also see that it is not cherry picked like crazy. When you read the gameplay you can see the skill lvl, at least when it is not cherry picked like one good action in a month or something what clearly isn't the case here. His videos usually show bait moves, unique move etc. all very high skilled would not happen for an average player once a year. And the mes is in the rank/ division you asked for.

    Nop, waht I see is that most pretty actions aren't done vs top players, and that macths vs good players have more cutting than other. Now I don't want to go on a detailled analysis of the vid because ofc he play well but discuss with him, I 'm sure he can explain how it work on the backsize.
    Ofc he is good, ofc he did actions I never did even while playing mes since 2012 but finally as beautiful as an action can be that's not with this you win game. Prove is that he play better than me and I have better rating which mean it's fun but unefficient.

    But tbh i rly get tired of this discussion, for me it feels like you can't be conviced and contradict every argument no matter what^^ I am sure for you this build will not work (we can agree on that at least), neither for me and most other player in this game, but when you are good enough you can make it work in plat 3/ leg because that at least is proven by his videos.

    Actually last season I ending 33th by playing 75% GS lock burst, 25% condilock burst. So I didn't know if it didn't work for me or not but I'm really frustrated when I face opponent who eat every single lock and kill me in 2 click... Hard for me to find the reward.

    Btw how often your sword 3 clone dies before you can port depends a lot with how you use it and i already agree that with average skill lvl this build will not work in higher ranked pvp.

    Even with high lvl skill it will not work in high lvl.

    I dunno at what rating/ lb place he goes up at maximum , means i don't know if you have a higher rank in general and over a longer time period but if yes the reasons are obvious, you play builds carry you, just like i do and he doesn't. Also the correlation between lb and skill lvl isn't nearly as high as it should be. A lot of high skilled actions were also vs higher ranked ppl, the stabi bait on coocky is one example i remember without rewatching. He is playing this build successfully in high ranks, that is a fact you just can't talk away dude rofl. But yeah lets just agree to not agree and end this pain of a discussion. Have a nice day :)

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 15, 2019

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    Power Block is a very balanced trait, the dmg is not high enough to be even near as broken. The only traits need a nerf because they are op in their effects and make Mantra of Distraction rewarding even when only random spammed without interrupting or only interrupting autoattacks are CI and Lost Time. Mantra of Distraction with Powerblock is balanced and only rewards mindful interrupts on more than only autoattacks enough to be worth taking.

    Have you ever try to rupt in a cele meta ?
    I mean a 0.25 sec decaled rupt failed and you are facing opponent under stab/aegis/cele.
    And even when you rupt someone with CI and Lost time what he does is 1 clic dispell and your calculated rupt is nullyfy with random dispell rotation. (Not even count the attacks that can't be rupt because 3 effects in 1.)
    And stop saying things like playing well in a lockbuil when the risk.investment in trait can be countered by simple condiclear. Show me where are the "skilled" players to argue please.

    What? Did you even understand what i said? I said Powerblock is balanced in terms of the reward it gives. It is not too high dmg it is only on interrupts and it is only rewarding enough when you are able to interrupt big skills and not only random interrupting autoattacks. That is why i said an interrupt build only using Powerblock is balanced, has a very high skill ceiling and is in disadvantage vs most other builds in this game even when played very well.

    Lost Time and CI are broken and have a very low skill ceiling and skill floor, they both give way too much reward (too much dmg + slow from Lost Time and an op immob. +might stacking without ICD on CI), so you either doesn't even need to interrupt something to proc it (Lost Time) or the reward is so strong that you don't need to care for what you interrupt, autoattacks are more then enough (CI). They make mesmer way easier and for that noobfriendlier to play. Chaosline in addition also applies forgiving sustain, which is more or less passive because it doesn't effect your active gameplay. These are the big differences to Powerblock. Simple facts.

    That there are other classes with builds even lamer and easier to play than a CI chaosline Powermes is a different story. Both should not exist in terms of getting a game that can separate good from bad players, in terms of getting a way less braindead meta. Balance isn't rly that hard: The easier a build is to play the less rewarding it should be even when played well and the more forgiving facetank ability a build has the less dmg it should make. In both points Anet always failed the balance. All the bruiser have way too much sustain for the dmg they do. And easy builds are often also the strongest (otherwise tell me the logic in Lost Time being able to crit, makes in general way more dmg than powerblock, apllies slow what is way more annoying than weakness, has better synergy with the interrupt nature because it makes interrupting easier but doesn't even need an interrupt to proc? Why is a trait with a higher reward easier to play?).
    In the current meta we have builds are good in everything. Just taking Holo as example it has good facetank ability (less than a war but still too much for the dmg it can do), high resustain ability even can be covered by stabi and stealth, high amount of aoe cc, perma mini burst (a lot even aoe) and good mobility. Holo could be a skillful class if it would be less broken and would have higher cd on keyskills. Atm a bad Holo doesn't even get punished for braindead skill spam because the cds are so low. Anet needs to reduce power creep all over the board and the sustain creep in the same moment. That is why i get cancer when i read dmg increased on skill x in the patch nodes. There is not a single skill in this game need a dmg increase atm. Every unused skill might get viable already by nerfing everything broken into the ground where it belongs.

    I understand what you say and disagree about the : "CI+ lost time easy to play whereas power block is skilled.
    I'm sorry but did you play lockdown against other class than necro ?
    Basically if you time your rupt and wait for the opponent to use a key skill : the opponnent will just keep his stab/teleport/los to cast the keyskill.
    So yeah you may find burning CC on auto bad but you haven't really the choice if you want the opponenent to use his counter CC skills before you can rupt the good one.
    CI is far to be OP : it's basically the condi version of powerblock apart that it can be dispell instantly bt most builds so the reward with CI+LOst time is worst than with the domination line with PB + CS.
    The skillfloor of PB+CS is under the skillfloor of CI+Lost time and not the reverse. What are you even writing like of CI proc when no interruptions ?
    About Lost time alone, it was a dead trait since it's realease. only now it can littlecompete with chronophantasma.

    They make mesmer way easier and for that noobfriendlier to play. Chaosline in addition also applies forgiving sustain, which is more or less passive because it doesn't effect your active gameplay. These are the big differences to Powerblock. Simple facts.

    Ho commong, you want passive ? Look at passive immob/cripple/weakness on thief, passive unstealth on holo, random aoe CC on holo/scourge, SB, 4on 1 skill like bullcharge and so on.
    In which world a trait who make a clic activation does average 1k and proc slow is passive in the current environnement. Wake up !

    That there are other classes with builds even lamer and easier to play than a CI chaosline Powermes is a different story.

    Nonono It's not a different story because we face everyday this kind of pegi 4 class. And you can't remove one class a tool then maintain this on other.

    I'm really angry when I read post like this who try to legitimate "subjective" point of view by saying it's facts.
    I will stay polite but I mainly disagree about what you say and your view of what is "skilling" or not.
    BTW lockdown builds are far to be rewarding considering the difficulty to calculate CC in a meta where many spec have cele or instnant skills. (And average cast time on important skill seems to be 0.25 sec...)
    Actually locks aren't efficient at all. (just 100% stunt on f3 is.)

    Lets agree to disagree then, i argued pretty clear why powerblock is way more skilled than Lost Time and CI. You have more than enough time to interrupt all classes inbetween their cycle of stabi and aegis and ty to the amount of cc you have, you don't need to care for 1 or 2 stacks of stabi, you can remove the stabi stack with a cc chain if needed. Overall the stabi uptime is not too high to make an interrupt build unviable. And i am not crying about Mantra of Distraction being instant and ranged like a lot of clueless mesmer or mantra-hater would do. That Mantra of Distraction works like it does atm is pretty much needed for an interrupt build to make any sense. It is a skillful, reactive, interactive interrupt utility skill, as long as it is not compined with op effects from op traits. Powerblock is not op. I just say CI and Lost Time are overperforming and lower the skill ceiling and floor on mesmer remarkable, in particular compared to powerblock. I was talking to ppl crying about powerblock, telling them that this complain is stupid. So i am even more on your side than most ppl (most not mesmer mains) in this thread.

    Also all big skills have enough casttime to interrupt them on purpose with Mantra of Distraction, there is no need for op traits like CI and Lost Time. Maybe you are too slow in your reaction time then? I don't know. Ofc meta builds need to get nerfed too in the same moment, not denying that. But just because other builds are op doesn't justify op stuff on mesmer. You clearly can play without being carried by Lost Time or CI when you are good enough. I agree that it is clearly hard to do and you need to be rly good compared to meta builds. But if you want an easy life mesmer shouldn't be your class choice at all. A class that has so much active outplay potential when played well should have a high skill floor and ceilling and no access of forgiving mistake passive sustain or a lot of access to easy applied dmg/ strong effects like immob to not be broken as hell.

    You argue just that powerblock is a skill who do useless damage and can sometimes be good when you rupt key skill (basically heal.).
    A near useless skill is different than a skilleed skill (moreover with somes ICD bugs.).

    You have more than enough time to interrupt all classes inbetween their cycle of stabi and aegis

    No, apart necro who is eat alive versus lock : thief keyskill can't be rupted, FB keyskill like signet will always be under stab, Holo auto pop stab regulary, rev have easy breakstunt in their rotation when rupted during no evade phases, war can't be immob can FC, SlB will ever be under stab during hist keybusrt etc.

    ty to the amount of cc you have

    2 charges of mantra, 1 random torch fantasm, 1 random staff, F3. Each with a max duration of 1 sec. There is plethora of class in this meta who have hard CC with a hiher duration while not even specing into lock.
    Well this ampunt of CC basically mean that you can't get over more than 3 stacks of stab. If you are lucky and your clones didn't die instatly with a GS burst build you can hope to remove a usefull boon on shatter but it's clearly random.

    Overall the stabi uptime is not too high to make an interrupt build unviable.

    Yeah that's why we see lock mesmers all days... In EU we were two to play lock last season in leaderboard and the second isn't even in top 100.
    The problem isn't only the stabi uptime it's that there is way too much skill have no to low little cast and :

    Maybe you are too slow in your reaction time then?

    I clearly haven't mAt players reaction but objectively, consciently rupt a 0.25 cast skill with average ping is ahead most human reaction time.
    (Other problem is the visual effects (damage, pyrotechnic explosion who hide key skill cast...).)

    I just say CI and Lost Time are overperforming and lower the skill ceiling and floor on mesmer remarkable, in particular compared to powerblock.

    You compare a trait who rarely proc and even when it proc I find the reward low versus a trait (Lost time.) who take part in preparation to next rupt.
    Dunno why you take CI and Lost time in the same board as CI as the same function as Power Block.

    . You clearly can play without being carried by Lost Time or CI when you are good enough.

    Yeah, that's a no lockbuild, and that's how the least top mesmers plays... Because it is more usefull to no play full lock.
    I totally haven't any consideration about other cryers who want nerf because their pegi4 class get destroyed by a mesmer.
    But lock playskills are far to be on the carrying skills actually.

    As said, lets agree to disagree. Powerblock is not useless, it is just not op and needs skill to be rewarding. That skills like that are considered useless in GW2 just shows how stupidly braindead and broken the meta is in this game. Maybe check Youtube for some high ranked Power Mesmer footage with only Powerblock interrupt gameplay. You will find some. There even was a thread about a video in the pvp forum not long ago. You will find baits to make targets pop their stabi, you will find outplays around stabi uptime, you will find well timed on purpose interrupts on big skills. It is kinda proven that it is possible also on higher skill lvl. Yes that might be an exceptional skill lvl you cannot expect from every random player but as said for these ppl there are 8 other classes to enjoy. I am not good enough to play a power shatter on high skill lvl myself, but i can accept it. I am multiclass player and i play mesmer as long as there are builds available easy enough to carry me. But tbf those builds shouldn't exist for a class with such high active outplay potential. Because in decent and above hands it will always be broken. You just see how much hate it creates when mesmer is balanced around average player like you and me (average in a game with in general very very low average skill lvl).

    Ok then we remain disagree, I maintain that there is not rewards for playing lock build, particulary with power block. And videos we found on youtube on the subject aren't versus EU top 100 players but versus random plug.

    The video posted not long ago in this forum had more than enough EU legend players involved to give only one example. The mesmer is as far as i saw placed around plat 3/ legend itself. But whatever, believe what you want , if you feel better doing so.

    link please

    Must be hard to skip to pace 2 or 3 to find it after i said it was posted not long ago. But let me will search it for you.

    Thanks because if you are talking about Jazz vid, I love the guy and his montage but it remain a montage, not the reality, neither a stream.

    Yes that was the guy. It is on page 2 now. It doesn't matter if it is a montage or not. You can read the gameplay and his rank is plat3/ legend. Means everything you ask for.

    Of course it matter, a montage is done do highligh beautifil actions, that's it, you never see the majority of time were it never work.
    For example in real life, pretty combo with sword 3, success only 10% in reality because in 90%, the clone will be instant killed.

    What i mean is that if you are able to read the game you can clearly see that this build is working even vs top player when played very well. You also are able to see how skilled someone is and because the videos are cuts from very few matches mostly you also see that it is not cherry picked like crazy. When you read the gameplay you can see the skill lvl, at least when it is not cherry picked like one good action in a month or something what clearly isn't the case here. His videos usually show bait moves, unique move etc. all very high skilled would not happen for an average player once a year. And the mes is in the rank/ division you asked for.

    Nop, waht I see is that most pretty actions aren't done vs top players, and that macths vs good players have more cutting than other. Now I don't want to go on a detailled analysis of the vid because ofc he play well but discuss with him, I 'm sure he can explain how it work on the backsize.
    Ofc he is good, ofc he did actions I never did even while playing mes since 2012 but finally as beautiful as an action can be that's not with this you win game. Prove is that he play better than me and I have better rating which mean it's fun but unefficient.

    But tbh i rly get tired of this discussion, for me it feels like you can't be conviced and contradict every argument no matter what^^ I am sure for you this build will not work (we can agree on that at least), neither for me and most other player in this game, but when you are good enough you can make it work in plat 3/ leg because that at least is proven by his videos.

    Actually last season I ending 33th by playing 75% GS lock burst, 25% condilock burst. So I didn't know if it didn't work for me or not but I'm really frustrated when I face opponent who eat every single lock and kill me in 2 click... Hard for me to find the reward.

    Btw how often your sword 3 clone dies before you can port depends a lot with how you use it and i already agree that with average skill lvl this build will not work in higher ranked pvp.

    Even with high lvl skill it will not work in high lvl.

    I dunno at what rating/ lb place he goes up at maximum , means i don't know if you have a higher rank in general and over a longer time period but if yes the reasons are obvious, you play builds carry you, just like i do and he doesn't. Also the correlation between lb and skill lvl isn't nearly as high as it should be. A lot of high skilled actions were also vs higher ranked ppl, the stabi bait on coocky is one example i remember without rewatching. He is playing this build successfully in high ranks, that is a fact you just can't talk away dude rofl. But yeah lets just agree to not agree and end this pain of a discussion. Have a nice day :)

    .

    you play builds carry you

    Oooooooooook, then you are the kind of people who think that best players are people who play the game with their feet instead of their hands because it's skilled...
    (Ofc it's skilled but you know for me this kind of reasonment is like : you want to win a car tournament versus Formula One with a cart. We are not talking about skill here but about efficiency, a cart will never win this.)
    I'm the kind of people who think that to be good the first thing is to theorycraft the more efficient build.
    So yeah I'm a noob, have a nice day too.

  • zoopop.5630zoopop.5630 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @otto.5684 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    I just fought against a double mantra mesmer, double rev duo.

    There are:

    1. No animations to dodge
    2. 17 different targets on my screen
    3. They can be at 3 points simultaneously
    4. If I stop dodging I get one-shot
    5. I'm perma revealed and all of their attacks are unblockable
    6. Stability gets instantly stripped and if you don't die you can't cast any skills because of the cc chains and constant interrupts
    7. You can't run away from them
    8. No-port spots are useless

    Mantras should not exist and both builds/classes both need huge damage nerfs and reworks. Matches like these are actually unplayable. There are no ways to fight against builds/comps like these and they do not require any skill to play. Unlike sic em longbow soulbeasts, there are no tells for the damage and you can't defend yourself with line of sight and terrain.

    QQ T-T L2P

    I'm glad I'm not the only one. I fought a team with double mantra mesmer yesterday and absolutely could not participate in the fight. In the very literal sense. I could not use my skills, I was constantly dazed/stunned. There was no tell, not only is it instant this is compounded by initiating from stealth. If I stopped evading, dead, instantly. Not in a second, not in a half second, instantly or at least in about 250ms which might as well be instantly.

    I get the nerf threads on Soulbeast and Holosmith but why has no one made a thread on this until now? I feel like it's pretty broken. I wont even address Revenant, there are already threads on that mess.

    Defending sic em oneshot but getting farmed by power mesmer. Learn to dodge/block/invul/los now baby
    @shadowpass.4236
    I dont even know, 2 rev/2 power mesmers comps must be banned? Is that what your post about?

    I am not sure 2 Mesmer and 2 rev even manage to win (assuming equal skill). If the opponent team has and FB, scourge, SB and whatever, the 2 Mesmer and 2 rev team will be obliterated.

    @otto.5684 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    I just fought against a double mantra mesmer, double rev duo.

    There are:

    1. No animations to dodge
    2. 17 different targets on my screen
    3. They can be at 3 points simultaneously
    4. If I stop dodging I get one-shot
    5. I'm perma revealed and all of their attacks are unblockable
    6. Stability gets instantly stripped and if you don't die you can't cast any skills because of the cc chains and constant interrupts
    7. You can't run away from them
    8. No-port spots are useless

    Mantras should not exist and both builds/classes both need huge damage nerfs and reworks. Matches like these are actually unplayable. There are no ways to fight against builds/comps like these and they do not require any skill to play. Unlike sic em longbow soulbeasts, there are no tells for the damage and you can't defend yourself with line of sight and terrain.

    QQ T-T L2P

    I'm glad I'm not the only one. I fought a team with double mantra mesmer yesterday and absolutely could not participate in the fight. In the very literal sense. I could not use my skills, I was constantly dazed/stunned. There was no tell, not only is it instant this is compounded by initiating from stealth. If I stopped evading, dead, instantly. Not in a second, not in a half second, instantly or at least in about 250ms which might as well be instantly.

    I get the nerf threads on Soulbeast and Holosmith but why has no one made a thread on this until now? I feel like it's pretty broken. I wont even address Revenant, there are already threads on that mess.

    Defending sic em oneshot but getting farmed by power mesmer. Learn to dodge/block/invul/los now baby
    @shadowpass.4236
    I dont even know, 2 rev/2 power mesmers comps must be banned? Is that what your post about?

    I am not sure 2 Mesmer and 2 rev even manage to win (assuming equal skill). If the opponent team has and FB, scourge, SB and whatever, the 2 Mesmer and 2 rev team will be obliterated.

    If enemy team runs a necro against double mantra Mesmer and double rev in a random Rank game they are 100% throwing. That's free food for the mantra mesmers.

  • Revolution.5409Revolution.5409 Member ✭✭✭

    Surely something needs to be revised for this build too.

  • zoopop.5630zoopop.5630 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @zoopop.5630 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    I just fought against a double mantra mesmer, double rev duo.

    There are:

    1. No animations to dodge
    2. 17 different targets on my screen
    3. They can be at 3 points simultaneously
    4. If I stop dodging I get one-shot
    5. I'm perma revealed and all of their attacks are unblockable
    6. Stability gets instantly stripped and if you don't die you can't cast any skills because of the cc chains and constant interrupts
    7. You can't run away from them
    8. No-port spots are useless

    Mantras should not exist and both builds/classes both need huge damage nerfs and reworks. Matches like these are actually unplayable. There are no ways to fight against builds/comps like these and they do not require any skill to play. Unlike sic em longbow soulbeasts, there are no tells for the damage and you can't defend yourself with line of sight and terrain.

    QQ T-T L2P

    I'm glad I'm not the only one. I fought a team with double mantra mesmer yesterday and absolutely could not participate in the fight. In the very literal sense. I could not use my skills, I was constantly dazed/stunned. There was no tell, not only is it instant this is compounded by initiating from stealth. If I stopped evading, dead, instantly. Not in a second, not in a half second, instantly or at least in about 250ms which might as well be instantly.

    I get the nerf threads on Soulbeast and Holosmith but why has no one made a thread on this until now? I feel like it's pretty broken. I wont even address Revenant, there are already threads on that mess.

    Defending sic em oneshot but getting farmed by power mesmer. Learn to dodge/block/invul/los now baby
    @shadowpass.4236
    I dont even know, 2 rev/2 power mesmers comps must be banned? Is that what your post about?

    I am not sure 2 Mesmer and 2 rev even manage to win (assuming equal skill). If the opponent team has and FB, scourge, SB and whatever, the 2 Mesmer and 2 rev team will be obliterated.

    @otto.5684 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    I just fought against a double mantra mesmer, double rev duo.

    There are:

    1. No animations to dodge
    2. 17 different targets on my screen
    3. They can be at 3 points simultaneously
    4. If I stop dodging I get one-shot
    5. I'm perma revealed and all of their attacks are unblockable
    6. Stability gets instantly stripped and if you don't die you can't cast any skills because of the cc chains and constant interrupts
    7. You can't run away from them
    8. No-port spots are useless

    Mantras should not exist and both builds/classes both need huge damage nerfs and reworks. Matches like these are actually unplayable. There are no ways to fight against builds/comps like these and they do not require any skill to play. Unlike sic em longbow soulbeasts, there are no tells for the damage and you can't defend yourself with line of sight and terrain.

    QQ T-T L2P

    I'm glad I'm not the only one. I fought a team with double mantra mesmer yesterday and absolutely could not participate in the fight. In the very literal sense. I could not use my skills, I was constantly dazed/stunned. There was no tell, not only is it instant this is compounded by initiating from stealth. If I stopped evading, dead, instantly. Not in a second, not in a half second, instantly or at least in about 250ms which might as well be instantly.

    I get the nerf threads on Soulbeast and Holosmith but why has no one made a thread on this until now? I feel like it's pretty broken. I wont even address Revenant, there are already threads on that mess.

    Defending sic em oneshot but getting farmed by power mesmer. Learn to dodge/block/invul/los now baby
    @shadowpass.4236
    I dont even know, 2 rev/2 power mesmers comps must be banned? Is that what your post about?

    I am not sure 2 Mesmer and 2 rev even manage to win (assuming equal skill). If the opponent team has and FB, scourge, SB and whatever, the 2 Mesmer and 2 rev team will be obliterated.

    If enemy team runs a necro against double mantra Mesmer and double rev in a random Rank game they are 100% throwing. That's free food for the mantra mesmers.

    Necros without firebrand are free food for everyone.

    even with a free firebrand that's a cancer match up for the necro.

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @zoopop.5630 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @zoopop.5630 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    I just fought against a double mantra mesmer, double rev duo.

    There are:

    1. No animations to dodge
    2. 17 different targets on my screen
    3. They can be at 3 points simultaneously
    4. If I stop dodging I get one-shot
    5. I'm perma revealed and all of their attacks are unblockable
    6. Stability gets instantly stripped and if you don't die you can't cast any skills because of the cc chains and constant interrupts
    7. You can't run away from them
    8. No-port spots are useless

    Mantras should not exist and both builds/classes both need huge damage nerfs and reworks. Matches like these are actually unplayable. There are no ways to fight against builds/comps like these and they do not require any skill to play. Unlike sic em longbow soulbeasts, there are no tells for the damage and you can't defend yourself with line of sight and terrain.

    QQ T-T L2P

    I'm glad I'm not the only one. I fought a team with double mantra mesmer yesterday and absolutely could not participate in the fight. In the very literal sense. I could not use my skills, I was constantly dazed/stunned. There was no tell, not only is it instant this is compounded by initiating from stealth. If I stopped evading, dead, instantly. Not in a second, not in a half second, instantly or at least in about 250ms which might as well be instantly.

    I get the nerf threads on Soulbeast and Holosmith but why has no one made a thread on this until now? I feel like it's pretty broken. I wont even address Revenant, there are already threads on that mess.

    Defending sic em oneshot but getting farmed by power mesmer. Learn to dodge/block/invul/los now baby
    @shadowpass.4236
    I dont even know, 2 rev/2 power mesmers comps must be banned? Is that what your post about?

    I am not sure 2 Mesmer and 2 rev even manage to win (assuming equal skill). If the opponent team has and FB, scourge, SB and whatever, the 2 Mesmer and 2 rev team will be obliterated.

    @otto.5684 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    I just fought against a double mantra mesmer, double rev duo.

    There are:

    1. No animations to dodge
    2. 17 different targets on my screen
    3. They can be at 3 points simultaneously
    4. If I stop dodging I get one-shot
    5. I'm perma revealed and all of their attacks are unblockable
    6. Stability gets instantly stripped and if you don't die you can't cast any skills because of the cc chains and constant interrupts
    7. You can't run away from them
    8. No-port spots are useless

    Mantras should not exist and both builds/classes both need huge damage nerfs and reworks. Matches like these are actually unplayable. There are no ways to fight against builds/comps like these and they do not require any skill to play. Unlike sic em longbow soulbeasts, there are no tells for the damage and you can't defend yourself with line of sight and terrain.

    QQ T-T L2P

    I'm glad I'm not the only one. I fought a team with double mantra mesmer yesterday and absolutely could not participate in the fight. In the very literal sense. I could not use my skills, I was constantly dazed/stunned. There was no tell, not only is it instant this is compounded by initiating from stealth. If I stopped evading, dead, instantly. Not in a second, not in a half second, instantly or at least in about 250ms which might as well be instantly.

    I get the nerf threads on Soulbeast and Holosmith but why has no one made a thread on this until now? I feel like it's pretty broken. I wont even address Revenant, there are already threads on that mess.

    Defending sic em oneshot but getting farmed by power mesmer. Learn to dodge/block/invul/los now baby
    @shadowpass.4236
    I dont even know, 2 rev/2 power mesmers comps must be banned? Is that what your post about?

    I am not sure 2 Mesmer and 2 rev even manage to win (assuming equal skill). If the opponent team has and FB, scourge, SB and whatever, the 2 Mesmer and 2 rev team will be obliterated.

    If enemy team runs a necro against double mantra Mesmer and double rev in a random Rank game they are 100% throwing. That's free food for the mantra mesmers.

    Necros without firebrand are free food for everyone.

    even with a free firebrand that's a cancer match up for the necro.

    Any conditions taken means disengage/death.

  • bOTEB.1573bOTEB.1573 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    @praqtos.9035

    The mirage doesn't need any of those defenses because the burst will hit 100% of the time if they aren't a potato and can time instant cast ccs. They don't even need the mantras to set up the burst. Blink + Diversion with Confounding Suggestions is effectively an instant 1200 range stun that can be used WHILST simultaneously casting gs2.
    I'm not going to argue this point any further.

    Running berserk build with no safe-nets and just 2 evades = dont need any defense?
    Almost 7 years mesmer do the same over and over and people still cant learn... If they rework completely GS and give mesmer a new(viable) way to play that would be great tho.
    Why you made a thread and crying about POWER mesmer if you dont want to argue ?:DDDDDDDDDDDDD

    lol this is my second time playing power mirage and I went 26-0 with 40% of the team's damage cause the bursts are so easy to land

    in a 12 min 30 second match that means I was getting roughly one kill every 27 seconds

    "dont need any defense" 4Head OmegaLUL

    Unranked arena 4head OmegaLUL

    Where do you think I fought the mantra mesmers? Ranked. They farmed my pugs there so just cause you can't time your bursts doesn't mean other people can't.

    It's actually ez mode lmao

    How to prove somethign : go unranked, farm some noobs, claim that what you are played is "absolutely busted" . Ok.

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    @praqtos.9035

    The mirage doesn't need any of those defenses because the burst will hit 100% of the time if they aren't a potato and can time instant cast ccs. They don't even need the mantras to set up the burst. Blink + Diversion with Confounding Suggestions is effectively an instant 1200 range stun that can be used WHILST simultaneously casting gs2.
    I'm not going to argue this point any further.

    Running berserk build with no safe-nets and just 2 evades = dont need any defense?
    Almost 7 years mesmer do the same over and over and people still cant learn... If they rework completely GS and give mesmer a new(viable) way to play that would be great tho.
    Why you made a thread and crying about POWER mesmer if you dont want to argue ?:DDDDDDDDDDDDD

    lol this is my second time playing this berserker power mirage build and I went 26-0 with 40% of the team's damage cause the bursts are so easy to land

    in a 12 min 30 second match that means I was getting roughly one kill every 27 seconds

    "dont need any defense" 4Head OmegaLUL

    Yep, mesmer is still very very very OP. I believe they will be nerfed next patch, don't worry!

    Wishlist:
    Everything that kills me should be nerfed
    Remove all time gates - I play more than some people yet I receive the same rewards per day/week (PvP/WvW tickets etc)
    ANET developments/events and everything else should be in a schedule with the time I play

  • bOTEB.1573bOTEB.1573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 16, 2019

    I am ele main, I have more hours on mesmer than on slb. As a player that plays both I can give my constructive feedback and I def agree wtih op - mesmer should be nerfed just a little bit or reworked

    Wishlist:
    Everything that kills me should be nerfed
    Remove all time gates - I play more than some people yet I receive the same rewards per day/week (PvP/WvW tickets etc)
    ANET developments/events and everything else should be in a schedule with the time I play

  • skillze.7689skillze.7689 Member ✭✭
    edited June 16, 2019

    Easier solution would be to stop class stacking of any form in competitive game modes that would balance alot of this "oh i get locked down by xxxx, and then the other xxxx one shots me. One of any class in general is a good place to start from. Seeing as the op is complaining about duo classes.

  • mrauls.6519mrauls.6519 Member ✭✭✭

    shadowpass has spoken!!! anet make it so

  • bOTEB.1573bOTEB.1573 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    No need to be nervous about it.
    Here is one video, skip to 1:10 for mesmer gameplay in PvP. You can clearly see that he owns everything. Pretty OP and it is extremely easy to play. He doesn't put much effort into any of the fights...

    Sorry bro, mesmer is still a monster !

    The highest rating Shorts ever finished a season on despite being a mesmer main was with Spellbreaker after a couple of weeks after playing the build the first time. That was season 14 or 15 I believe.

    Shorts finished last season at 51 playing Power Mesmer. And there were a whooooole lot more Spellbreakers, Holosmiths, Revenants and Rangers than mesmers who finished above him than I can identify.

    I havent said anything about shorts, I dont even know the guy. There are better mesmers than him and top 250 was full of mesmers ever since PoF...

    Wishlist:
    Everything that kills me should be nerfed
    Remove all time gates - I play more than some people yet I receive the same rewards per day/week (PvP/WvW tickets etc)
    ANET developments/events and everything else should be in a schedule with the time I play

  • Xstein.2187Xstein.2187 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 16, 2019

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    No need to be nervous about it.
    Here is one video, skip to 1:10 for mesmer gameplay in PvP. You can clearly see that he owns everything. Pretty OP and it is extremely easy to play. He doesn't put much effort into any of the fights...

    Sorry bro, mesmer is still a monster !

    The highest rating Shorts ever finished a season on despite being a mesmer main was with Spellbreaker after a couple of weeks after playing the build the first time. That was season 14 or 15 I believe.

    Shorts finished last season at 51 playing Power Mesmer. And there were a whooooole lot more Spellbreakers, Holosmiths, Revenants and Rangers than mesmers who finished above him than I can identify.

    I havent said anything about shorts, I dont even know the guy. There are better mesmers than him and top 250 was full of mesmers ever since PoF...

    We are not just talking about after PoF. We are talking about right now, the current situation. In less than 2 months PoF will be 2 years old already. I would say its very hard to argue that Shorts isn't one of the best PvP players at mesmer in the game. Everyone here is just grasping at straws by now.

  • Xstein.2187Xstein.2187 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 16, 2019

    I said quite a long time ago that 'Lost Time' should be nerfed as it is the one trait that allows for 1 shots and a lack of counter play, particularly with mantras even though mantras themselves aren't the problem.
    However, besides this, power mesmer needs to be buffed, a LOT of other classes and builds need to be nerfed to bring them into line with each other, or a mixture of the two needs to take place. However, realistically, a big mesmer overall needs to occur first as there are a lot of worthless traits in the mesmer trait lines and the class as a whole (not talking about balance) is in a pitiful state when compared retrospectively. Additionally, there are a lot of mesmer core traits that are objectively not balanced fairly compared to other classes.

    Yes, it is possible to buff power mesmer while nerfing burst potential.
    What a surprise, I know!

    Besides this, if you still have problem with power mes, than it is on you, as there is room for counter play.
    There is evidence for this on the leaderboards and tournaments.

    Still don't like fighting against mesmer?
    Who cares, you will never like fighting against every class to play against and just because you don't like fighting it, doesn't mean it is OP.

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 16, 2019

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @Xstein.2187 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    No need to be nervous about it.
    Here is one video, skip to 1:10 for mesmer gameplay in PvP. You can clearly see that he owns everything. Pretty OP and it is extremely easy to play. He doesn't put much effort into any of the fights...

    Sorry bro, mesmer is still a monster !

    The highest rating Shorts ever finished a season on despite being a mesmer main was with Spellbreaker after a couple of weeks after playing the build the first time. That was season 14 or 15 I believe.

    Shorts finished last season at 51 playing Power Mesmer. And there were a whooooole lot more Spellbreakers, Holosmiths, Revenants and Rangers than mesmers who finished above him than I can identify.

    I havent said anything about shorts, I dont even know the guy. There are better mesmers than him and top 250 was full of mesmers ever since PoF...

    We are not just talking about after PoF. We are talking about right now, the current situation. In less than 2 months PoF will be 2 years old already. I would say its very hard to argue that Shorts isn't one of the best PvP players at mesmer in the game.

    He might be, but I've seen better.

    As Powermesmer rotationally he is average at best, i saw so many bad and not optimal rotations in his videos made me cringe a lot. It looks better in terms of mechanics and kiting. Here i would rate him good but not very good. He was better with Condimesmer tbh, also because the rotations on a side node duelclass are easier than with a rotational dmg class. All in all decent but thats it. The usual Youtube viewer only gets a bit too excited about low effort oneshots with big dmg numberes, at least that is my guess why he is hyped that much.

    Posting a video with mostly pre nerf Condimesmer footage and pointing out situation where he is literally just freecasting on Powerchrono on already pressured targets, throwing some gravitiy wells also doesn't rly help the discussion and says nothing about how easy or broken Powermesmer is. Also i mentioned already: Powermes always was a good noobkiller. And OP already proved that you can do a lot of dmg and get kills without being experienced on Powermesmer when they let you freecast all match and are not able to dodge the most obvious bursts.

    In terms of balance for Powermesmer i mainly would point at CI, Lost Time and Mantra of Pain, because all of them give too much reward for how easy they are too use. But as also mentioned from mesmer mains, there are really bigger problems on meta builds than Lost Time and Mantra of Pain, which need to be fixed first. Meanwhile CI i see becoming a big problem in the current state of meta already, no matter that viquing will jump on me for saying that.

    @Xstein.2187 said:
    I said quite a long time ago that 'Lost Time' should be nerfed as it is the one trait that allows for 1 shots and a lack of counter play, particularly with mantras even though mantras themselves aren't the problem.
    However, besides this, power mesmer needs to be buffed, a LOT of other classes and builds need to be nerfed to bring them into line with each other, or a mixture of the two needs to take place. However, realistically, a big mesmer overall needs to occur first as there are a lot of worthless traits in the mesmer trait lines and the class as a whole (not talking about balance) is in a pitiful state when compared retrospectively. Additionally, there are a lot of mesmer core traits that are objectively not balanced fairly compared to other classes.

    Yes, it is possible to buff power mesmer while nerfing burst potential.
    What a surprise, I know!

    Besides this, if you still have problem with power mes, than it is on you, as there is room for counter play.
    There is evidence for this on the leaderboards and tournaments.

    Still don't like fighting against mesmer?
    Who cares, you will never like fighting against every class to play against and just because you don't like fighting it, doesn't mean it is OP.

    Hell no, pls don't buff anything in this power creeped game. Just as every unused skill, underperforming builds might get viable already by just nerfing the broken things on meta builds.
    Everything needs to get turned down. EVERYTHING! Power creep and sustain creep need to be reduced remarkable all over the board. Lets wait with any buffs after that, also it probably will never happen because Anet...

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • bOTEB.1573bOTEB.1573 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    No need to be nervous about it.
    Here is one video, skip to 1:10 for mesmer gameplay in PvP. You can clearly see that he owns everything. Pretty OP and it is extremely easy to play. He doesn't put much effort into any of the fights...

    Sorry bro, mesmer is still a monster !

    The highest rating Shorts ever finished a season on despite being a mesmer main was with Spellbreaker after a couple of weeks after playing the build the first time. That was season 14 or 15 I believe.

    Shorts finished last season at 51 playing Power Mesmer. And there were a whooooole lot more Spellbreakers, Holosmiths, Revenants and Rangers than mesmers who finished above him than I can identify.

    I havent said anything about shorts,

    You linked one of his videos. As relevant or irrelevant as that video is, Shorts performing far higher the season he swapped to Spellbreaker instead of Mesmer is more important than any montage video could ever be, hence why I bring him up very specifically.

    I dont even know the guy.

    Can anyone in this world truly say they know another person?

    There are better mesmers than him and top 250 was full of mesmers ever since PoF...

    I can count one mesmer main above him in the top 250 last season, and that was Countless at 27.

    I can count farm more spellbreaker, Herald, Holo, and Ranger mains than Mesmer across the top 250. A lot more, like 5 times more.

    Mesmers aren't dominating ranked any more EU or NA by any stretch of the imagination. Simple as that. Power is doing okay in platinum and top 250 on NA but as a whole mesmer is on the lower end of representation as best as I can tell without the actual data Arenanet has.

    Let's count them together, because either your math or mine is wrong.

    TOP 250 all professions, let us see how many mesmers we have compared to the rest of the professions, with raw numbers.

    Wishlist:
    Everything that kills me should be nerfed
    Remove all time gates - I play more than some people yet I receive the same rewards per day/week (PvP/WvW tickets etc)
    ANET developments/events and everything else should be in a schedule with the time I play

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 16, 2019

    I will trust CI being a problem when a EU season end with a mes using it in top 50.

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @viquing.8254 said:
    I will trust CI being a problem when a EU season end with a mes using it in top 50.

    There he is :)

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:
    I will trust CI being a problem when a EU season end with a mes using it in top 50.

    There he is :)

    Haha nice try :p .
    Fact is I spend 75% of last season with confounding suggestion instead of CI because it's more reliable to burst(<= no need to rupt).

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    If you want to nerf the burst you need to buff the sustain damage immensely. Power mes sustain damage is absolute trash.

    Same damage as holosmith with demolisher pls ;)

  • Xstein.2187Xstein.2187 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 16, 2019

    @bravan.3876 said:
    Hell no, pls don't buff anything in this power creeped game. Just as every unused skill, underperforming builds might get viable already by just nerfing the broken things on meta builds.
    Everything needs to get turned down. EVERYTHING! Power creep and sustain creep need to be reduced remarkable all over the board. Lets wait with any buffs after that, also it probably will never happen because Anet...

    I tried to be "open" in my post to allow for variety since mesmer is in a complicated situation right now. That's why I didn't exclusively mention one or the other.
    For example, "Critical Infusions" is at 3 sec on crit right now and is a core trait.
    In order to keep things fair (if you didn't want to buff the trait), both elementalist's 'Renewing Stamina' and guardian's 'Vigorous Precision' would have to be nerfed down to 3 seconds as well. However, all of 3 of these are core trait lines that were at 5 seconds before any expansion even came out. Disclaimer: this is just an example among many!

    The problem is that the devs nerfed mesmer core trait lines to begin with instead of the elites.

    You could nerf many other core traitlines in the game of other classes to keep things fair.
    However, the devs would then need to even more massively nerf the elites (relative to how much they already should be nerfed right now) to the point of entire reworks to keep core builds from not being even more overshadowed by elite specs than they already all.
    Though this may sound good, HUGE reworks like this in reality are likely quite quixotic.

    Reverting nerfs (aka buffing) to core traits that should never have been nerfed in the first place (should have been elites) is just a much easier and practical way to help mend this situation IMO.

    See @Lincolnbeard s answer just above for another example.

  • Heartpains.7312Heartpains.7312 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    If you want to nerf the burst you need to buff the sustain damage immensely. Power mes sustain damage is absolute trash.

    Problem is you know, even if we get sustain damage, then we have the survival ability thing that got worse by the nerfs which is why when we want to play power it is best to just go full berserk xD

  • @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    No need to be nervous about it.
    Here is one video, skip to 1:10 for mesmer gameplay in PvP. You can clearly see that he owns everything. Pretty OP and it is extremely easy to play. He doesn't put much effort into any of the fights...

    Sorry bro, mesmer is still a monster !

    The highest rating Shorts ever finished a season on despite being a mesmer main was with Spellbreaker after a couple of weeks after playing the build the first time. That was season 14 or 15 I believe.

    Shorts finished last season at 51 playing Power Mesmer. And there were a whooooole lot more Spellbreakers, Holosmiths, Revenants and Rangers than mesmers who finished above him than I can identify.

    Mesmer is kind of a weird role. Its dueling potential is there but it can't stay on point that well. Power Mesmer in particular is a plusser but also a teamfighter--is kinda of a wobbly role. The difficulty of rotations with Power Mesmer is to the extreme.

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Heartpains.7312 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    If you want to nerf the burst you need to buff the sustain damage immensely. Power mes sustain damage is absolute trash.

    Problem is you know, even if we get sustain damage, then we have the survival ability thing that got worse by the nerfs which is why when we want to play power it is best to just go full berserk xD

    This is also true, good sustain damage without good sustain is worth nothing.

    The degenerate

  • TAIKA.1903TAIKA.1903 Member ✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    @praqtos.9035

    The mirage doesn't need any of those defenses because the burst will hit 100% of the time if they aren't a potato and can time instant cast ccs. They don't even need the mantras to set up the burst. Blink + Diversion with Confounding Suggestions is effectively an instant 1200 range stun that can be used WHILST simultaneously casting gs2.
    I'm not going to argue this point any further.

    Running berserk build with no safe-nets and just 2 evades = dont need any defense?
    Almost 7 years mesmer do the same over and over and people still cant learn... If they rework completely GS and give mesmer a new(viable) way to play that would be great tho.
    Why you made a thread and crying about POWER mesmer if you dont want to argue ?:DDDDDDDDDDDDD

    lol this is my second time playing this berserker power mirage build and I went 26-0 with 40% of the team's damage cause the bursts are so easy to land

    in a 12 min 30 second match that means I was getting roughly one kill every 27 seconds

    "dont need any defense" 4Head OmegaLUL

    LAMO, I can do 50% up damage without mantra as a power mirage in unranked, it is not hard when 4 of ur teammates are newbie.

    Are you kidding me?

    All anet should do is nerf BS first, ok?

©2010–2018 ArenaNet, LLC. All rights reserved. Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2, Heart of Thorns, Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire, ArenaNet, NCSOFT, the Interlocking NC Logo, and all associated logos and designs are trademarks or registered trademarks of NCSOFT Corporation. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.