Nerf Mantra Mesmers and Revenants - Page 4 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Nerf Mantra Mesmers and Revenants

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  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 23, 2019

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    I've never liked the idea of mantras, at least the ones that do damage. Inherently uncompetitive. The interrupt is fine but not with damage from Power Block.

    The Top Row traits on Chronomancer provides ridiculous damage and need serious nerfs.

    Power Block is a very balanced trait, the dmg is not high enough to be even near as broken. The only traits need a nerf because they are op in their effects and make Mantra of Distraction rewarding even when only random spammed without interrupting or only interrupting autoattacks are CI and Lost Time. Mantra of Distraction with Powerblock is balanced and only rewards mindful interrupts on more than only autoattacks enough to be worth taking.

    In fact power block is bugged now, its cant crit/apply weakness on 3s cd as if its PVE. If you want to nerf LT, then nerf to hell LROD ele as well as it does twice as much damage.
    You are pretty much complain about the only good traits left for mesmer :) (cant say CI is not annoying to get immobed but its also in no damage traitline as well)
    They could rework GS since its in terrible state and has only 1 use -> combo shatter since 2012

    Lightning Rod hits harder because it doesn't block people out of skills for 15s...

    Leave mah Tempest alone, we dont need to be nerfed.

    (I dont think mes needs nerf either, but nerf tempest comments trigger my jimmies)

    Oh you again... You dont even know what i'm talking about.
    Small hint PBlock =/= LTime

    I do. Simpe mistype but not to distract from the point just sayin to leave mah Tempest alone 😘

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    06210311 251521 121512

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 23, 2019

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Chorazin.4107 said:
    How the kitten did this thread arise with Holosmiths running around?

    Holo can't be OP because Holo loses to Holo depending on who has stab.

    Holo loses to a lot of matchups... Fire weaver...and ....emm...holo vs holo depends on who has the stab (C) - Guess who said that on previous monthly
    Okay thats not really about the mesmer now :D

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Chorazin.4107 said:
    How the kitten did this thread arise with Holosmiths running around?

    Holo can't be OP because Holo loses to Holo depending on who has stab.

    Holo loses to a lot of matchups... Fire weaver...and ....emm...holo vs holo depends on who has the stab (C) - Guess who said that on previous monthly
    Okay thats not really about the mesmer now :D

    Holosmith: Being an easy spec means that all kind of players will abuse it.....skill level in a matchup is a thing

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Aaralyna.3104Aaralyna.3104 Member ✭✭✭

    Not all Revenants are good in pvp... Renegade is.. well I can't even enter pvp with that (few sec in match and dead) and I'm not alone... So when you name a class, do name the correct spec or core and build along next time.

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 24, 2019

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Chorazin.4107 said:
    How the kitten did this thread arise with Holosmiths running around?

    Holo can't be OP because Holo loses to Holo depending on who has stab.

    Holo loses to a lot of matchups... Fire weaver...and ....emm...holo vs holo depends on who has the stab (C) - Guess who said that on previous monthly
    Okay thats not really about the mesmer now :D

    Holosmith: Being an easy spec means that all kind of players will abuse it.....skill level in a matchup is a thing

    You must be genius! /s
    Lets assume holo facerollers by default are way more skilled than others ?:D
    Justify spec being broken asf because in mirror matchup it wins itself?

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Rev nerfs can be avoided since that are more technical since it’s a rendering issue, if Anet increases animation time rev can be easily fixed...

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 24, 2019

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Chorazin.4107 said:
    How the kitten did this thread arise with Holosmiths running around?

    Holo can't be OP because Holo loses to Holo depending on who has stab.

    Holo loses to a lot of matchups... Fire weaver...and ....emm...holo vs holo depends on who has the stab (C) - Guess who said that on previous monthly
    Okay thats not really about the mesmer now :D

    Holosmith: Being an easy spec means that all kind of players will abuse it.....skill level in a matchup is a thing

    You must be genius! /s
    Lets assume holo facerollers by default are way more skilled than others ?:D
    Justify spec being broken asf because in mirror matchup it wins itself?

    The more I read the forum...the more I realize how lost is its userbase, I was not referring to holo vs holo but..whatever. ....I still don't understand how people can spend all day on the forum asking for nerfs left and right....do people think that Anet will sit and say : "ok let's nerf to the ground everything so that Mister X can win always 1v1 and against everything from now till the end of times"....lol ridiculous as it sounds I am starting to think that's the case.

    One thing I have always wished to see is those asking for nerfs being forced to play the target of their cries...and except them to reach top positions in all modes within months, with videos showcases of them facing skilled players on other professions...would they fail to do so...I would punish them, may they stop believe to be all knowing masters of the universe lol

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • NICENIKESHOE.7128NICENIKESHOE.7128 Member ✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:
    The more I read the forum...the more I realize how lost is its userbase

    Don't be so quick to judge, you are part of the forum in other's eyes.

    [RED] Crimson Sunspears...your small family guild since 2015.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @NICENIKESHOE.7128 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:
    The more I read the forum...the more I realize how lost is its userbase

    Don't be so quick to judge, you are part of the forum in other's eyes.

    Which is true also...and can't help but laugh thinking at how we all appear to the mods or other external viewers : I mean ..I would laugh hard watching individuals trying to outnerf each other while talking about skill in a game supposed to be run by a 13 years old

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Chorazin.4107 said:
    How the kitten did this thread arise with Holosmiths running around?

    Holo can't be OP because Holo loses to Holo depending on who has stab.

    Holo loses to a lot of matchups... Fire weaver...and ....emm...holo vs holo depends on who has the stab (C) - Guess who said that on previous monthly
    Okay thats not really about the mesmer now :D

    Holosmith: Being an easy spec means that all kind of players will abuse it.....skill level in a matchup is a thing

    You must be genius! /s
    Lets assume holo facerollers by default are way more skilled than others ?:D
    Justify spec being broken asf because in mirror matchup it wins itself?

    The more I read the forum...the more I realize how lost is its userbase

    During Jawgeous's MAT coverage he seriously argued Holosmith can't be OP because holo loses to holo depending on who has stab, which is just funny.

    ...I wonder how people are expecting to ever reach their unicorn balance in this game : there is only a single game mode which is conquest , three capture points that require the player to be sitting on them for a tot amount of time on his own or against enemies , the player must be able to endure the dmg onslaught and the mobility to run/move to other points...otherwise the player is useless.

    You can have both endurance and mobility or a superior version of each one at time, we have 9 professions in game and 27 possible gameplay options so.....there can only be one victor, players will always pick what give them the best chances at victory and unless you guys wish for a single class with 9 different gem store skins...I can't see how this unicorn balance will ever be achieved

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Solori.6025Solori.6025 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Chorazin.4107 said:
    How the kitten did this thread arise with Holosmiths running around?

    Holo can't be OP because Holo loses to Holo depending on who has stab.

    Holo loses to a lot of matchups... Fire weaver...and ....emm...holo vs holo depends on who has the stab (C) - Guess who said that on previous monthly
    Okay thats not really about the mesmer now :D

    Holosmith: Being an easy spec means that all kind of players will abuse it.....skill level in a matchup is a thing

    You must be genius! /s
    Lets assume holo facerollers by default are way more skilled than others ?:D
    Justify spec being broken asf because in mirror matchup it wins itself?

    The more I read the forum...the more I realize how lost is its userbase, I was not referring to holo vs holo but..whatever. ....I still don't understand how people can spend all day on the forum asking for nerfs left and right....do people think that Anet will sit and say : "ok let's nerf to the ground everything so that Mister X can win always 1v1 and against everything from now till the end of times"....lol ridiculous as it sounds I am starting to think that's the case.

    One thing I have always wished to see is those asking for nerfs being forced to play the target of their cries...and except them to reach top positions in all modes within months, with videos showcases of them facing skilled players on other professions...would they fail to do so...I would punish them, may they stop believe to be all knowing masters of the universe lol

    .....Arent you the same person who made " nerf mirage and holo" threads? And a scourge complaint thread? Pot calling kettle.

    Tingle my stingleberry

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 24, 2019

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Chorazin.4107 said:
    How the kitten did this thread arise with Holosmiths running around?

    Holo can't be OP because Holo loses to Holo depending on who has stab.

    Holo loses to a lot of matchups... Fire weaver...and ....emm...holo vs holo depends on who has the stab (C) - Guess who said that on previous monthly
    Okay thats not really about the mesmer now :D

    Holosmith: Being an easy spec means that all kind of players will abuse it.....skill level in a matchup is a thing

    You must be genius! /s
    Lets assume holo facerollers by default are way more skilled than others ?:D
    Justify spec being broken asf because in mirror matchup it wins itself?

    The more I read the forum...the more I realize how lost is its userbase, I was not referring to holo vs holo but..whatever. ....I still don't understand how people can spend all day on the forum asking for nerfs left and right....do people think that Anet will sit and say : "ok let's nerf to the ground everything so that Mister X can win always 1v1 and against everything from now till the end of times"....lol ridiculous as it sounds I am starting to think that's the case.

    One thing I have always wished to see is those asking for nerfs being forced to play the target of their cries...and except them to reach top positions in all modes within months, with videos showcases of them facing skilled players on other professions...would they fail to do so...I would punish them, may they stop believe to be all knowing masters of the universe lol

    .....Arent you the same person who made " nerf mirage and holo" threads? And a scourge complaint thread? Pot calling kettle.

    "Like seriously. Be more of a hypocrite" (C)
    I remember this thread, he didnt even knew what made this classes so strong...
    i'm not sure but didnt he made nerf scrapper thread but idk where it is now? Merged or it was someone else?

    I would punish them


    Why should I invest two months into playing X class and record 2 months of my gameplay for "The Punisher" that do nothing but babbling some nonsense and derailing the thread?

  • bOTEB.1573bOTEB.1573 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I always lose the match if the enemy team has double mantra mesmer and my team doesn't. And the opposite- I always win when my team has one and the enemy team doesn't have one.
    A simple indication of the upcoming nerf of this build.

    Wishlist:
    Everything that kills me should be nerfed
    Remove all time gates - I play more than some people yet I receive the same rewards per day/week (PvP/WvW tickets etc)
    ANET developments/events and everything else should be in a schedule with the time I play

  • ZhouX.8742ZhouX.8742 Member ✭✭✭

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @Chorazin.4107 said:
    How the kitten did this thread arise with Holosmiths running around?

    A soulbeast main got mad that someone said his 2 shot pew pew build was doing too much unblockable damage so he made a thread targeting mes and Rev to distract from the fact soulbeast globals someone from 1800r.

    Except he's actually a good player with valid points lol

    I mean let's be real he would probably kitten on you with most classes regardless of the class he mains so what's your point?

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 25, 2019

    People are angry in this thread at power mesmers, but wait until they start to see the new condi mantra mirage.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 25, 2019

    @ZhouX.8742 said:

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @Chorazin.4107 said:
    How the kitten did this thread arise with Holosmiths running around?

    A soulbeast main got mad that someone said his 2 shot pew pew build was doing too much unblockable damage so he made a thread targeting mes and Rev to distract from the fact soulbeast globals someone from 1800r.

    Except he's actually a good player with valid points lol

    I mean let's be real he would probably kitten on you with most classes regardless of the class he mains so what's your point?

    He made a thread without a single valid point and it was pointed out not just by me but many people, including these who dont even play the mesmer.
    Oh wait, you are another slb main, why I'm not even surprised :joy:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    People are angry in this thread at power mesmers, but wait until they start to see the new condi mantra mirage.

    Not really. 80% of this thread is offtopic/derailing and not discussing power mantra mesmer, on EU region you will not find this double mantra mesmers almost at all, if you will find any mesmer it would be chaos rupt chrono/mirage. I bet NA is a noobfiesta if they have that many mantra mesmers...

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 25, 2019

    The season I got r2 I played around 20-25% of my games on mesmer. It's also my third most played class, so I understand how it works.

    Also, it's not really a L2P issue on my part either. I guess EU mesmers can't land instant cast bursts? lol and you guys say NA players are bad

    1. Funnily enough, for @Xstein.2187 asking me to get top 10 in ranked with it... In the first and second screenshots, Mur is r7 and r10 respectively and uses the mantra mesmer build religiously to farm the leaderboards. So clearly, it's been a viable build at high ratings for at least several PvP seasons.
    2. Zeromis, the best mesmer on NA (and probably the best mesmer in general) also thinks mantras are ez mode. You can see how easy the burst is to land in this clip and Shorts isn't even on mirage.
    3. Realistically, the mantra combos should land 100% of the time. The build doesn't insta die in longer fights either as shown in this clip. The fight lasted about 30-40 seconds and went back and forth. You can see nearly, if not all, mantra charges landing consistently against one of the best players in the game running a well-rounded build that has won him several monthlies.
    4. Furthermore, Mantra of Distraction + Power Block is hands down THE strongest interaction in the game. The combination of the two can effectively prevent a player from casting their heal skill indefinitely.

    Mirages (and mesmers in general) are still ridiculously strong. The people who say otherwise simply don't know how to play the class. As for the people saying I'm making this thread to detract from Sic Em ranger nerf threads, that's not the case. I've stated multiple times in the past that I do not use that skill and couldn't care less if it was removed from the game. Sic Em is a bad, gimmicky utility tied to an easily mitigated burst that doesn't work against good players unlike builds/classes like (mantra) mesmers and power heralds.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Chorazin.4107 said:
    How the kitten did this thread arise with Holosmiths running around?

    Holo can't be OP because Holo loses to Holo depending on who has stab.

    Holo loses to a lot of matchups... Fire weaver...and ....emm...holo vs holo depends on who has the stab (C) - Guess who said that on previous monthly
    Okay thats not really about the mesmer now :D

    Holosmith: Being an easy spec means that all kind of players will abuse it.....skill level in a matchup is a thing

    You must be genius! /s
    Lets assume holo facerollers by default are way more skilled than others ?:D
    Justify spec being broken asf because in mirror matchup it wins itself?

    The more I read the forum...the more I realize how lost is its userbase, I was not referring to holo vs holo but..whatever. ....I still don't understand how people can spend all day on the forum asking for nerfs left and right....do people think that Anet will sit and say : "ok let's nerf to the ground everything so that Mister X can win always 1v1 and against everything from now till the end of times"....lol ridiculous as it sounds I am starting to think that's the case.

    One thing I have always wished to see is those asking for nerfs being forced to play the target of their cries...and except them to reach top positions in all modes within months, with videos showcases of them facing skilled players on other professions...would they fail to do so...I would punish them, may they stop believe to be all knowing masters of the universe lol

    .....Arent you the same person who made " nerf mirage and holo" threads? And a scourge complaint thread? Pot calling kettle.

    I mean...are we seriously stating that nerf threads for mesmers/holos and scourge were unwarranted? In this same thread some have claimed that a lightning rod ele is far stronger than a mantra shatter mesmer....the statement was one of the most funny comments I read in the last couple of years on this forum..I'd make a celebration thread but...the mod police is around you know...

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @toxic.3648 said:
    ye lets nerf the underperforming mes even more since ppl cant be bothered to dodge \o/ kitten mes to the ground ppl ! get the pitchforks and kitten , lets do this !!!

    If they nerf mesmer any further..you can jump on ele lightning rod or fire weaver and become even more victorious than before, in fact you'll be sitting top 100 with all the other 99 eles

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Chorazin.4107 said:
    How the kitten did this thread arise with Holosmiths running around?

    Holo can't be OP because Holo loses to Holo depending on who has stab.

    Holo loses to a lot of matchups... Fire weaver...and ....emm...holo vs holo depends on who has the stab (C) - Guess who said that on previous monthly
    Okay thats not really about the mesmer now :D

    Holosmith: Being an easy spec means that all kind of players will abuse it.....skill level in a matchup is a thing

    You must be genius! /s
    Lets assume holo facerollers by default are way more skilled than others ?:D
    Justify spec being broken asf because in mirror matchup it wins itself?

    The more I read the forum...the more I realize how lost is its userbase, I was not referring to holo vs holo but..whatever. ....I still don't understand how people can spend all day on the forum asking for nerfs left and right....do people think that Anet will sit and say : "ok let's nerf to the ground everything so that Mister X can win always 1v1 and against everything from now till the end of times"....lol ridiculous as it sounds I am starting to think that's the case.

    One thing I have always wished to see is those asking for nerfs being forced to play the target of their cries...and except them to reach top positions in all modes within months, with videos showcases of them facing skilled players on other professions...would they fail to do so...I would punish them, may they stop believe to be all knowing masters of the universe lol

    .....Arent you the same person who made " nerf mirage and holo" threads? And a scourge complaint thread? Pot calling kettle.

    I mean...are we seriously stating that nerf threads for mesmers/holos and scourge were unwarranted? In this same thread some have claimed that a lightning rod ele is far stronger than a mantra shatter mesmer....the statement was one of the most funny comments I read in the last couple of years on this forum..I'd make a celebration thread but...the mod police is around you know...

    Why wouldnt you quote me directly, mister Punisher?

    In this same thread some have claimed that a lightning rod ele is far stronger than a mantra shatter mesmer.

    ^ Straight up lie, never did that. You want to celebrate that? Can you get even more ridiculous ?

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 25, 2019

    @toxic.3648 said:
    1. its not that the mesmers cant land burst cuz they suck. ppl just know how to dodge a combo used since 2012 in EU by now.
    2. if burst dosnt come from stealth, u dodge when u see the giant greatsword come flying. its that simple rly. i wouldnt call a build which burst get ez negated like that "high tier"
    3. landing burst from stealth is ez. u can do that on sic'em soulbeast too.
    4. try pit that mesmer up against a war/holo/herald, heck any of the real overperforming specs with same player skill and ull see mez is ez farmable

    1. Nah that's exactly what I'm saying lmao. You guys aren't dodging instant cast mantras... the other players are simply missing them. It's literally impossible to whiff MoP and MoD if your timing isn't garbage, hence what I mean when I say EU mesmers don't know how to play properly.
    2. Not really... Blink + Diversion has no animation and it can be used whilst casting GS2. If EU mesmers are chucking mirror blades across the map from max range with no setup/cc then yeah I can see why they can't kill anything xd
    3. The Worldly Impact SE build is actually a meme and any competent player can just walk away when they see the ranger stealth and they can't hit you. The longbow damage on rapid fire can be avoided by going invuln sometime during the cast and/or walking behind LoS.
    4. Mesmer wins against warrior, soulbeast, and herald. The only losing matchup it has in the 4 you listed is holo but even then the holo would never be able to kill the mes unless they over-commit.
  • Xstein.2187Xstein.2187 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 25, 2019

    Mantras don't have animations, which I am not too fond of either. However, they are almost always used with mirror blade and therefore very easy to predict.
    That by itself doesn't make it OP IMO, especially based on other evidence. However, I agree that no animations are bad. On the other hand though, I think they balanced and designed mantras with knowing they didn't have cast times in mind.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Xstein.2187

    I don't really have any interest in going back and forth like this so I'll just say a bit and leave it at that.

    1. The leaderboards aren't always a great indicator of what specs are overperforming. Just because the top spots aren't completely dominated by mantra mesmers doesn't mean the builds aren't chock-full of unhealthy mechanics (high impact, instant cast abilities) with frequent one-shot potential and high mobility.
    2. Whilst Shorts is probably considered decent at mesmer I wouldn't consider him a top, top player. I've played with/against him enough times to know that his rotations and communication on VC aren't the best. Even combat-wise the clips and videos he posts are him cherry-picking good fights/matches.
      • Personally, I think CJ and Mur are both way scarier to fight on mantras than Shorts. CJ has fought me in the finals of a 1v1 tourny and he gave me one of the longest, most intense fights against a core mesmer I've ever had. It lasted for over 15 minutes, streamed on twitch to over 100 people, and I had to play/predict perfectly or I would've gotten one-shot.
      • Mur can time his bursts well and I can say that against all of the mantra mesmers I've fought, Mur is the only one who has been able to consistently one-shot me if I don't know he's coming.
    3. That fight at 9 minutes into the video is a perfect example of what I'm talking about...
      • Top players like Zeromis have very good awareness. He would've easily seen Short's name pop out from behind that corner as well as the animation for Mass Invisibility and Torch 4. Shorts also wasted his Blurred Frenzy on nothing and simply played that fight extremely poorly.
      • The first clip I posted is a good execution of the burst and it's one of the most reliable combos to land in the game. There was nothing Zeromis could've done differently in that situation as he had no idea Shorts was there.
    4. Again, I don't have personal footage of myself playing mesmer so Shorts was an easy-to-find, decent example of how to hit mantras. Like I said before, he's not the best player so I wouldn't expect him to land every one of his bursts.
  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 25, 2019

    @praqtos.9035

    I have no interest in talking with you. Shorts isn't the best player so don't take his gameplay videos as the end-all-be-all of what mesmer is capable of.

    At 9 minutes, it would've been pretty easy to see Shorts coming. It's not really surprising that Zeromis was expecting the burst. These things should be obvious. Your belief that Short's awful stealth opener is indicative of the build's potential is why I feel like I'm wasting my time explaining concepts/situations that will go right over your head.

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    @praqtos.9035

    I have no interest in talking with you. Shorts isn't the best player so don't take his gameplay videos as the end-all-be-all of what mesmer is capable of.

    At 9 minutes, it would've been pretty easy to see Shorts coming. It's not really surprising that Zeromis was expecting the burst. These things should be obvious. Your belief that Short's awful stealth opener is indicative of the build's potential is only one reason why I feel like I'm wasting my time explaining concepts/situations that will go right over your head.

    Then dont create whine-threads and dont respond to anyone who you dont like with a meme "proof" from unranked/NA memeboard of 15 games .
    Is that what you capable of ? Insults and "I dont want to argue with people who proved me wrong" ?

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 25, 2019

    @toxic.3648 said:
    1. i can understand that would land when mantras actually stunned ppl so u couldnt dodge. now not so much. dodge 4head
    2. ye lets use one of the only stuns on 40sec cd to land the burst, if that fails then what? stab/invul/dodge counters this build so hard i have no idea why a highrated player is even complaining about this kitten at this point. i honestly thought it was a meme first time i saw the thread. now im just sad ._.
    3. this exact argument can be used against mes burst too u know.
    4. ive only lost to 3 powermesmers in all the time ive dueled ppl. either because they were that good or i misplayed. everyone else gets farmed when u know the burst is comming. imho powermes is the last somewhat viable build mes has, lets not nerf them out of existense now

    1. lol what... MoD being a daze has no impact on how easy it is to land instant cast mantras. Do you think a thief needs to stun before they steal? Nope.
    2. So you just hold onto diversion because you can't time it properly and are afraid it'll miss? It shouldn't fail, Genius. It's instant cast. The skill is literally impossible to miss unless you have garbage timing.
    3. Lmao no. You want to walk away from a mantra mesmer attempting to burst you? Congratulations he just blinked to you and you died. You want to LoS the burst? Congratulations he just blinked around the wall and you died.
    4. I don't doubt it. Not that the build is hard to play, but there are only 2-3 players that I'd consider good at power mes. 99.5% of the players in this game have no idea what they're doing.

    I don't have an issue with power mesmer. I have an issue with mantras. MoD + MoP is like having 4 steals on half the cooldown with double the damage. These skills shouldn't exist. Zeromis' build on the other hand takes a lot of skill to play properly and I respect him for that.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    @praqtos.9035

    I have no interest in talking with you. Shorts isn't the best player so don't take his gameplay videos as the end-all-be-all of what mesmer is capable of.

    At 9 minutes, it would've been pretty easy to see Shorts coming. It's not really surprising that Zeromis was expecting the burst. These things should be obvious. Your belief that Short's awful stealth opener is indicative of the build's potential is only one reason why I feel like I'm wasting my time explaining concepts/situations that will go right over your head.

    Then dont create whine-threads and dont respond to anyone who you dont like with a meme "proof" from unranked/NA memeboard of 15 games .
    Is that what you capable of ? Insults and "I dont want to argue with people who proved me wrong" ?

    It's a public forum, Brainiac. I can create threads if I want to and respond to who I'd like.

    Sorry you can't land instant cast skills o/

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 25, 2019

    @Xstein.2187 said:
    @shadowpass.4236

    Sounds good,
    I originally posted just because of the argument.
    I agree that full on reliably 100-0 one shooting is unhealthy.
    I just think there is a difference between unhealthy and OP, or that they are different concepts.
    I believe the leaderboards is one of the very good ways to determine OP. However, I agree that it can't determine unhealthy, especially when 'unhealthy' at times can be a somewhat arbitrary concept that the players themselves may disagree on.

    Thanks for your feedback mate. I'm not saying my opinions are correct, but I've been playing long enough to understand what works and what doesn't against a variety of skill ranges. I only come on the forums if I see severe misinformation/there are actually pretty big balance issues which is why you'll see me occasionally on threads like these.

    Again, I appreciate constructive discussions with people who are willing to take and give new ideas and perspectives. And, whilst I agree with your distinction between the definitions for unhealthy versus overpowered, I'd like to add that there are occasionally/frequently overlaps. Cheers

  • toxic.3648toxic.3648 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 25, 2019

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @toxic.3648 said:
    1. i can understand that would land when mantras actually stunned ppl so u couldnt dodge. now not so much. dodge 4head
    2. ye lets use one of the only stuns on 40sec cd to land the burst, if that fails then what? stab/invul/dodge counters this build so hard i have no idea why a highrated player is even complaining about this kitten at this point. i honestly thought it was a meme first time i saw the thread. now im just sad ._.
    3. this exact argument can be used against mes burst too u know.
    4. ive only lost to 3 powermesmers in all the time ive dueled ppl. either because they were that good or i misplayed. everyone else gets farmed when u know the burst is comming. imho powermes is the last somewhat viable build mes has, lets not nerf them out of existense now

    1. lol what... MoD being a daze has no impact on how easy it is to land instant cast mantras. Do you think a thief needs to stun before they steal? Nope.

    and again , mes burst wont land unless they lock ppl in place. again dodge the burst and ull be golden(its not the mantras killing u, its the gs burst + shatter)

    1. So you just hold onto diversion because you can't time it properly and are afraid it'll miss? It shouldn't fail, Genius. It's instant cast. The skill is literally impossible to miss unless you have garbage timing.

    ye only problem is most stunbreaks are on shorter cd than that stun, stab also exist, so does invul. so again dodge 4head

    1. Lmao no. You want to walk away from a mantra mesmer attempting to burst you? Congratulations he just blinked to you and you died. You want to LoS the burst? Congratulations he just blinked around the wall and you died.

    dud they will be no attempt to burst since it wont land due to beforementioned reasons

    1. I don't doubt it. Not that the build is hard to play, but there are only 2-3 players that I'd consider good at power mes. 99.5% of the players in this game have no idea what they're doing.

    tbh i tried being nice about it but it sounds like a l2p issue on ur end if u are dying to this. it rly does. i cant fathom how u cant predict the burst and just dodge. brings the question how high tier NA is compared to EU if this is what a hightier player is complaining about.

    I don't have an issue with power mesmer. I have an issue with mantras. MoD + MoP is like having 4 steals on half the cooldown with double the damage. These skills shouldn't exist. Zeromis' build on the other hand takes a lot of skill to play properly and I respect him for that.

    ye except these mantras dosnt stun/steal ur boons. seems like legit steals mate /s

    edit: thought id mention this. if u died to a burst like this it means u got outplayed or the mes player is simply better than u. it does NOT mean that its broken, that is all

    Toxicity Pengu to the rescue /o/

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @toxic.3648

    Aight like I've said to several other people, I have no interest in going back and forth like this.

    It should be pretty obvious by my previous/current rankings that it's not a L2P issue. I have no issues dealing with the majority of mantra mesmers because they can't time their skills properly. However, stick a good player on the build and they will have no problems landing the one-shots.

    Instead, I'm dealing with a bunch of people from EU telling me that mantra bursts are hard to land. Like... really?? lmaoo

  • Dueling illusion is stronger than domination anyway, double mind wrack and quickness is too valuable. I do agree with lost time getting the glacial hammer / shattered aegis / smiters boon treatment.

    ~ God Tier Guardian

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 25, 2019

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:
    Dueling illusion is stronger than domination anyway, double mind wrack and quickness is too valuable. I do agree with lost time getting the glacial hammer / shattered aegis / smiters boon treatment.

    Everything you mentioned is nothing alike.
    I alrdy said that if you want to nerf lost time then lightning rod should be nerfed as well. Two similar traits with an exception lrod hit twice as much. If they do then compensate its loss(both traits)
    Imagine complain about full zerk mesmer when mesmer viability depends on chaos interruption... Nerf threads soon tm

  • Heartpains.7312Heartpains.7312 Member ✭✭✭

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:
    Dueling illusion is stronger than domination anyway, double mind wrack and quickness is too valuable. I do agree with lost time getting the glacial hammer / shattered aegis / smiters boon treatment.

    Talking about Mirage or?
    If mirage this is not correct for sure in wvw at least

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