Will the Holosmith get nerfed into oblivion?

See the question.

I hope not. Engineer needs to make up for years of neglect.

In fact I hope Holosmith is revised to have heat interactions with rifle & pistol + shield.

Trimmed down? ProbablyNerfed into oblivion? Not likely - it's a pure dps spec so it should do dmg, obviously the current output is a tad over the top :)

i don't think they'll nerf it in to oblivion.. cut it down of course beacause it's def. over the top x) as my poster above me told

How have we determined it's over the top? Because it has big numbers?

It needs to be taken in context, which has not yet been possible in any beta weekend or stress test. I'm actually mostly concerned it will be undertuned in PvE due to PF falling prey to the same bug that transformations have had for years with the lower damage. In PvP I don't think there is evidence to say it is over the top. I don't recall Holosmiths tearing it up with the 2 days we had with it.

scourge will be the one that has to get nerfed to oblivion, not holo... man I was wrecking multiple hydras at once on scourge and kinda slightly almost struggling against 1 on holo

Why would it be nerfed? You're somewhat squishy and have to stay in melee to deal damage. The burst is nothing like a DD coming out of stealth, and the survivability is nowhere near that of a warrior, and everyone has a dodge key which is the best tool to negate most of the hugely telegraphed attacks of the Holosmith.It's in a decent spot. I think it's boring as shit but that's a different discussion entirely.

Maybe some slight tweaks in numbers, but no major nerf's because it's whole purpose is to be our power dps spec

@Adamantium.3682 said:How have we determined it's over the top? Because it has big numbers?

It needs to be taken in context, which has not yet been possible in any beta weekend or stress test. I'm actually mostly concerned it will be undertuned in PvE due to PF falling prey to the same bug that transformations have had for years with the lower damage. In PvP I don't think there is evidence to say it is over the top. I don't recall Holosmiths tearing it up with the 2 days we had with it.

It doesn't need to be over the top to be nerfed. I don't really know why, but I'm totally sure It will be nerfed anyway, even if it is actually balanced and working properly.

@Ardid.7203 said:

It doesn't need to be over the top to be nerfed. I don't really know why, but I'm totally sure It will be nerfed anyway, even if it is actually balanced and working properly.

Please remind me, but wasn't that the same case with Scrapper not long ago?

scrapper cc was pretty over the top

@KayCee.4653 said:

@Ardid.7203 said:

It doesn't need to be over the top to be nerfed. I don't really know why, but I'm totally sure It will be nerfed anyway, even if it is actually balanced and working properly.

Function Gyros are strong because they don't require a skill slot and allow you to avoid standing there ressing or finishing an opponent. Perfectly Weighted & (optional) Final Salvo give you more stability than a holosmith would get. Rapid regeneration doubles down healing with any superspeed (it was nerfed). Impact Savant reduces the need for stunbreak if you run Saffron Bread and/or Melandru runes (for WvW). Adaptive Armor still works.

Spectrum Shield & Photon Wall look appealing but the core skills need to be more competitive for Holosmith to be truly viable. For Holosmith to see use in WvW, the core traitlines and weapons need to be looked at. Photon Forge and the heat idea is nice in theory, but as an engineer main described it to me: it's like initiative (thief) or energy (rev) but the fact that it heavily damages you when you overheat is underwhelming. Locking you out of Photon Forge is enough of a penalty already because rifle is not great (why isn't the immob a small 130 cleave range AoE around the target? it does zero damage as it is), sword requires you to melee and has no defensive skills unlike hammer, and pistol is also underwhelming. In fact, Tool Kit is more defensive than sword +shield , although the toolbelt kill is relatively yawn worthy.Also Photon Forge makes the Elite skill weaker most of the time since you lose the Elite's toolbelt skill. (i.e. you lose moa on Elixir X, Mortar loses the blast finisher) ; Laser's edge minor trait compounds the problem of losing most damage once Photon Forge is inactive.

The concentration (20% boon duration) in alchemy traitline isn't as strong if you aren't running Durability runes on a scrapper (as far as WvW). I'm not quite sure a holosmith can hang around in melee range as often as a scrapper.

Scrapper was mostly nerfed due to PvP. Original Bunker down , triple leap, stealth gyro, + the original rapid regen meant they were highly defensive while doing damage.

To be honest, I couldn't play engineer in WvW til Scrapper came about because without throwing grenades (which is bad for your hand due to the targeting of auto-attack...) there wasn't much that really set it apart and retaliation destroys you when you run grenades. Flamethrower (which requires some condi stats to be good) , Tool Kit, and Bomb Kit are more or less melee range and don't standout. Elixir Gun does low damage (it isn't meant for damage ,I know), pistol does low damage more or less, mortar does low damage but has fields.

There's a lot of misinformation in that post! I think the problem is hearing it second hand from your friend who mains Engi. It doesn't have to be designed for WvW to be a good spec, on top of that a lot of things you are taking as true just aren't.

@insanemaniac.2456 said:scrapper cc was pretty over the top

Yeah, but so was what they did to nerf it.

oh bet your behind they will nerfstroy it like anything nice about this class. Enjoy it while you got it, but dont get used to the feeling of nice stuff... right a-net? 28% mortar nerf hm? Yea.. im not letting this one slide.

But in all seriosness, this is a glass cannon spec. Its supposed to hit like a truck so i only can hope they dont nerf it below minivan...

They will probably nerf the Kamehameha effects to reduce visual clutter.

Honestly the only thing I saw with holosmith that made me feel like it had insane numbers was its crit chance on base sword is insanely high with heat levels and forge skill 5 was an auto crit mix that between it being even easier to stack full might as a holo smith compared to scrapper and you're going to get ppl that feel like its doing absurd amounts of damage. It's honestly on quite a few of the E specs tbh Deadeye with silent scope weaver has 2 increased crit chance with options with extra percison if in air or superiror elements trait. Renegade has increased crit chance in a minior while at full endurance they get 33% crit. Pretty sure there are some others but those are what stood out for me, classes are gaining more easy access to crit chance and crits hurt along with the ability of personal might stacking.

Probably. What Engi build hasn't been nerfed?

I figure it's going to be to good (or to easy) to play in lower tier pvp and Engineer and that will be used to justify harsh nerfs.

Listen....guys..... remember when we all looked at path of fire highlights, saw holosmith and thought "what is this sht, engi are warriors now?!" And then we tried it and thought "holy moly..... we are photon warriors!! fuk yeh burn and laser baby!!!"

No doubt this is the general reaction from all others who don't main engi- so many people are taken surprise how easy, fun and amazing holosmith is. It only needs a thread, most likely from the warrior profession, complaining why holosmith is superior and more warrior like than the warrior class itself.

This happens every single time, each time we realise we have something viable- we get triple nerf.This is why I don't post builds or even little discoveries on the forums anymore. If you find something good, keep it to yourself.

So while we enjoy holosmith, shield your heart and don't forget your engi's pessimism.To those who forgot, this thread shall remind you:https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/professions/engineer/Famous-Quotes-for-the-Engineer/first.

=p

This builds looks that it tries to shine in pve, and comparing warrior, warriors have a support build that are ensuring them the spot for raids, not to mention their condi dps is improving patch after patch.

I doubt a warrior would complain about us when they are in a decent spot honestly.

No because even if it's OP as hell (it is), it won't get nerfed.

Maybe 1 month before the next expansion lol :D

@Ivantreil.3092 said:This builds looks that it tries to shine in pve, and comparing warrior, warriors have a support build that are ensuring them the spot for raids, not to mention their condi dps is improving patch after patch.

I doubt a warrior would complain about us when they are in a decent spot honestly.

You haven't been outside of this subforum much, huh?

@Ivantreil.3092 said:This builds looks that it tries to shine in pve, and comparing warrior, warriors have a support build that are ensuring them the spot for raids, not to mention their condi dps is improving patch after patch.

I doubt a warrior would complain about us when they are in a decent spot honestly.

Dude... they are having an identity crisis over there. And even though their condi PS is highly sought out in raids, it's mainly for boon share and that's it. Their DPS has dropped a lot, right now they feel there is no good power build which is what most warriors wanted really ¯_(ツ)_/¯.

Here's a link on how all meta builds are performing, it's quite an eye-opener.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/6zmvmo/just_some_raid_data_wwwgw2raidarcom/

That's some really cool data the raiding community is gathering. This certainly has the potential to be the most accurate measure of where professions really are in the PvE meta. Benchmarks are theory; this is actual.

What's a little misleading now, aside from the obvious sample size due to it being the first release, is who is playing these professions? How many "noobs" are out there bringing a fully geared Condi Rev into raids? I would bet most of those players are already pretty skilled. Conversely what percentage of Warriors are less skilled players compared to most other professions and are "dragging that average down" for lack of a nicer term? This is obviously some pretty broad strokes I'm painting, and may not even be correct for these examples, but the point remains.

I found this out through something we can relate to more closely in this forum -- power Engi. Partly because I made HMS Divinity and partly because these results came out I decided to go with Power Engi in my raids last week. My DPS was well above the 95% percentile shown on these graphs for pretty much every boss, in some cases by thousands and even sometimes enough to eclipse the next class on the list. I don't really play power Engi much so I'm sure even what I did could be improved pretty easily. For reference my condi Engi numbers from the stats I could find (aren't as great as I thought, I have room for improvement!) were between average and 75% percentile pretty consistently.

what pushed you to make hms divinity? i made the pre and want to collect all the rifles but i think id rather make bolt and wvw armor for now. do you have predator?