5 matches, 5 match manipulaters. — Guild Wars 2 Forums

5 matches, 5 match manipulaters.

sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited June 23, 2019 in PVP

I had 5 games, each with someone throwing.
Map chat is "ill pay everyone on the enemy team 10g to let me win"..

Got annoyed, figured I would start recording and post to the world the state of GW2 PvP, told a dude I had him and his guild recorded.. He started playing properly after that and we won after being down 200 points.

If anyone is good with video editing, make a montage of several matches being thrown and manipulated.. Post it up on these forums, other forums and hopefully something gets done about it.

End rant, sorry guys just frustrated that my game time today was nothing but pure frustration.

Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
06210311 251521 121512

<13

Comments

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Wasnt top1 on NA a wintrader that got a free pass ? So you think your rant will change something?
    And wintrading at start of the season makes no sense

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 16, 2019

    @praqtos.9035 said:
    Wasnt top1 on NA a wintrader that got a free pass ? So you think your rant will change something?
    And wintrading at start of the season makes no sense

    Wether it makes sense or not, it happened.

    I dont think my rant will change anything, I hope I inspire our community to take action though.
    Bad PR will be dealt with, if we ignore it then so will anet.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    06210311 251521 121512

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 16, 2019

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:
    Wasnt top1 on NA a wintrader that got a free pass ? So you think your rant will change something?
    And wintrading at start of the season makes no sense

    Wether it makes sense or not, it happened.

    I dont think my rant will change anything, I hope I inspire our community to take action though.
    Bad PR will be dealt with, if we ignore it then so will anet.

    A thread about obvious wintrading(top1 spot lol) was deleted as soon as Ben was quoted, its obvious Anet completely dont care about pvp/wintrading, content shop -> anything else.

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:
    Wasnt top1 on NA a wintrader that got a free pass ? So you think your rant will change something?
    And wintrading at start of the season makes no sense

    Wether it makes sense or not, it happened.

    I dont think my rant will change anything, I hope I inspire our community to take action though.
    Bad PR will be dealt with, if we ignore it then so will anet.

    A thread about obvious wintrading(top1 spot lol) was deleted as soon as Ben was quoted, its obvious Anet completely dont care about pvp/wintrading, content shop -> anything else.

    Which is probably why the community should start acting on thier behalf as I said in my previous comment.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    06210311 251521 121512

  • pukish.5784pukish.5784 Member ✭✭
    edited June 16, 2019

    Join the GW2 PvP Community!
    Check out the forums and get involved.

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:
    I had 5 games, each with someone throwing.
    Map chat is "ill pay everyone on the enemy team 10g to let me win"..

    Got annoyed, figured I would start recording and post to the world the state of GW2 PvP, told a dude I had him and his guild recorded (well known guild too from ATs).. He started playing properly after that and we almost won after being down 200 points.

    If anyone is good with video editing, make a montage of several matches being thrown and manipulated.. Post it up on these forums, other forums and hopefully something gets done about it.

    End rant, sorry guys just frustrated that my game time today was nothing but pure frustration.

    I learned during season 6, that you get ostracized when you take bold actions to expose these activities. Many people within the community who partake in them begin to view you as an enemy, and will even make sport of going out of their way to make your matches worse than they are now. They like to give people subtle reminders of why they should be keeping their mouths shut.

    When I had mentioned in previous threads that: "The top of our leaderboards are controlled & moderated by a fascist like inner-circle, who picks & chooses who they like and don't like, and who plays high and who doesn't" I wasn't joking around about that, and I had chosen the usage of my words carefully.

    The other thing I learned is that no matter how loud we get about exposing players who are participating in this, nothing we do matters unless Arenanet cares and wants to take real action against it. So far the best we've seen is wrist slapping and single season suspensions, and then main culprits are allowed right back in to do it again. I often wonder if this is because they do not want to ban players who offer free commercialism via twitch, which I would fully understand to be perfectly honest. If this is the case, I would say to Arenanet that it is important to recognize at this point, that this free commercialization is no longer helping to strengthen Arenanet's product. It only helps strengthen the repute of the streamers themselves. In truth, they are ruining Arenanet's product and running off the consumer base in the process.

    All in all I can't help but believe that Arenanet already knows exactly what's going on and who is involved. If I could learn so much simply through interacting with the community in-game, I couldn't imagine what Arenanet must know with the mechanisms they have access to. A junior networker could come in on an internship, getting paid nothing, monitor the servers for even just 24 hours, and get a strong handle on all of the patterns and what was going on. Can you imagine what he would see if he did this for an entire pvp season? The patterns of IP addresses in que and who they happen to que with alone, would have to yield enough incriminating evidence to clean up this problem, yet here we are, it is still happening, it gets worse each season because it goes unchecked. After really sitting and considering the above ^ I believe it is being allowed to happen on purpose, for whatever reason that may be.

    The hilarious thing about all of this, is that it was enabled through solo/duo only que. If we want to play, we are forced to feed the match manipulation activity, because we can no longer que as a 5 man team to block ourselves from it.

    Just a heads up, be careful how you go about exposing any of this. Always do it anonymously, and make sure no one knows that you are doing it all.

    I love everything you just wrote but I have 1 thing to add...
    I think by now you know me and that I can say the unpopular opinion quite a bit, Im not fussed by what a bunch of strangers think of me.
    And yes, I know exactly what you mean.. I feel it in the FFA arena when half of a guild decides to gang bang me for something I said on the forums but I dont mind, survival training always helps 😀

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    06210311 251521 121512

  • Ziggityzog.7389Ziggityzog.7389 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 16, 2019

    Yeah it's pretty bad and not worth any time put into ranked since there is no chance at a top spot unless you make a alt account and wintrade with buddies.

    This is why I've mostly played unranked since season 7. Leaderboard has no real leaders just cheaters. Thus not worth the time.

    We had 4 seasons 1-4 that weren't full of mama's basement trolls. Guess that's all we can ask for is 4 good seasons out of 17 now. Not bad really.

  • Edge.8724Edge.8724 Member ✭✭✭

    This kinda reassures me in one thing though... If I'm in silver or bronze that doesn't even mean that I'm an extremely bad player anymore. I'm just trying my best in PvP matches and somehow half of my team is doing nothing or literally doing absurd things all the way (even saw 4 people, 2 on my team and 2 on the ennemy's and they were dancing in a corner of the map.)

    Oh well, I'll still try my best 'cause I'm me and at least I have rewards.

  • Edge.8724Edge.8724 Member ✭✭✭

    There isn't really anything we really can do about this. Especially if ArenaNet itself doesn't care.

    If there is, please correct me.

  • Exedore.6320Exedore.6320 Member ✭✭✭

    Easy fix: introduce 1-5 queue size to ranked.

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 16, 2019

    @Exedore.6320 said:
    Easy fix: introduce 1-5 queue size to ranked.

    Or we just auction titles off. So the games can be played aside from ranking and the ones with the most gold get them. Not much of a difference to now but than at least it is official. The respect ppl have for titles is nearly zero anyway already, old and new ones.

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:
    I had 5 games, each with someone throwing.
    Map chat is "ill pay everyone on the enemy team 10g to let me win"..

    Got annoyed, figured I would start recording and post to the world the state of GW2 PvP, told a dude I had him and his guild recorded (well known guild too from ATs).. He started playing properly after that and we almost won after being down 200 points.

    If anyone is good with video editing, make a montage of several matches being thrown and manipulated.. Post it up on these forums, other forums and hopefully something gets done about it.

    End rant, sorry guys just frustrated that my game time today was nothing but pure frustration.

    I learned during season 6, that you get ostracized when you take bold actions to expose these activities. Many people within the community who partake in them begin to view you as an enemy, and will even make sport of going out of their way to make your matches worse than they are now. They like to give people subtle reminders of why they should be keeping their mouths shut.

    When I had mentioned in previous threads that: "The top of our leaderboards are controlled & moderated by a fascist like inner-circle, who picks & chooses who they like and don't like, and who plays high and who doesn't" I wasn't joking around about that, and I had chosen the usage of my words carefully.

    The other thing I learned is that no matter how loud we get about exposing players who are participating in this, nothing we do matters unless Arenanet cares and wants to take real action against it. So far the best we've seen is wrist slapping and single season suspensions, and then main culprits are allowed right back in to do it again. I often wonder if this is because they do not want to ban players who offer free commercialism via twitch, which I would fully understand to be perfectly honest. If this is the case, I would say to Arenanet that it is important to recognize at this point, that this free commercialization is no longer helping to strengthen Arenanet's product. It only helps strengthen the repute of the streamers themselves. In truth, they are ruining Arenanet's product and running off the consumer base in the process.

    All in all I can't help but believe that Arenanet already knows exactly what's going on and who is involved. If I could learn so much simply through interacting with the community in-game, I couldn't imagine what Arenanet must know with the mechanisms they have access to. A junior networker could come in on an internship, getting paid nothing, monitor the servers for even just 24 hours, and get a strong handle on all of the patterns and what was going on. Can you imagine what he would see if he did this for an entire pvp season? The patterns of IP addresses in que and who they happen to que with alone, would have to yield enough incriminating evidence to clean up this problem, yet here we are, it is still happening, it gets worse each season because it goes unchecked. After really sitting and considering the above ^ I believe it is being allowed to happen on purpose, for whatever reason that may be.

    The hilarious thing about all of this, is that it was enabled through solo/duo only que. If we want to play, we are forced to feed the match manipulation activity, because we can no longer que as a 5 man team to block ourselves from it.

    Just a heads up, be careful how you go about exposing any of this. Always do it anonymously, and make sure no one knows that you are doing it all.

    Ahhh, you hit the the spot here mate!
    This is soooo true, so much changes need to happen. Sadly nothing will. I guess all we have left is to just try to enjoy wether you win or lose.
    I guess its time for us to build an "inhouse" type of PvP where we get people in a guild and we organise our small tournaments in the guild pvp arena or we open exclusive custom arenas and we have a dedicated website for this inhouses to be announced and organised.
    If there is anything like this, please hit me up i probably have missed it!

  • voltaicbore.8012voltaicbore.8012 Member ✭✭✭

    @bravan.3876 said:
    Or we just auction titles off. So the games can be played aside from ranking and the ones with the most gold get them. Not much of a difference to now but than at least it is official. The respect ppl have for titles is nearly zero anyway already, old and new ones.

    Although I understand the sentiment, this kind of thing makes me... not so much sad, as disappointed. I solo queued my way to Merciless Legend a few seasons back, and came within striking distance of the top 100 title as well. I'm not sure if any match manipulation benefited me along the way, but I certainly never knowingly participated in throwing. However, match manipulation give folks bad feelings about the pvp titles, and I feel like my achievements have been sullied by association. Disappointing.

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @voltaicbore.8012 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:
    Or we just auction titles off. So the games can be played aside from ranking and the ones with the most gold get them. Not much of a difference to now but than at least it is official. The respect ppl have for titles is nearly zero anyway already, old and new ones.

    Although I understand the sentiment, this kind of thing makes me... not so much sad, as disappointed. I solo queued my way to Merciless Legend a few seasons back, and came within striking distance of the top 100 title as well. I'm not sure if any match manipulation benefited me along the way, but I certainly never knowingly participated in throwing. However, match manipulation give folks bad feelings about the pvp titles, and I feel like my achievements have been sullied by association. Disappointing.

    Yes it is really sad. But no worries it goes mostly for the top 25 titles.

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • witcher.3197witcher.3197 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @praqtos.9035 said:
    And wintrading at start of the season makes no sense

    Gotta practice it you know

  • Rukario.1695Rukario.1695 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 16, 2019

    Sounds like player chat from the opposing team should be invisible.

    Allowing cooperation between negligent team members (of both teams) to throw matches should never have been given the means to be possible anyway.

    More violence, less violets I say. I'm rich you know, because I watch the ledges.

  • Susy.7529Susy.7529 Member ✭✭✭

    10g for playing kitten in a match? Why I never find those guys, I would be rich now :(

  • As much as is sucks that players continue to exploit/cheat the system, I think anet has made it pretty clear they intend to do nothing about it. Some players are known to have been exploiting for years, have been recorded and proved without doubt that they are doing so, and received little to no punishment. Honestly the only real solution is to stop caring. If you try to be competitive in gw2, or get frustrated by exploits, you will only be met with disappointment.

  • mindcircus.1506mindcircus.1506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    If this is the case, I would say to Arenanet that it is important to recognize at this point, that this free commercialization is no longer helping to strengthen Arenanet's product. It only helps strengthen the repute of the streamers themselves. In truth, they are ruining Arenanet's product and running off the consumer base in the process.

    Let's not act as if Arenanet is the only one at fault here.
    The most highly publicized incident of a PVP streamer wintrading saw that player welcomed back by the community with absolutely open arms. Who cares that the first Montly AT was tarnished by this person who for years went off about how bad wintrading was before selling out for a Chak Egg Sac. Lets get him back on Tea Time to discuss PVP!
    And no one said a thing.
    Arenanet did the right thing in this case, they outted the player, stripped him of rewards and handed him a suspension that was in alignment with other punishments.
    It was this community that welcomed him back as some kind of hero, subbing to his stream and treating him like a celebrity.

  • Khalisto.5780Khalisto.5780 Member ✭✭✭

    By reading the comments I came to a conclusion that to deal with this you have to gather your own group of talented ppl to go as high as you can and then start playing the same game as they do, it's like we have more ppl to wintrade/matchmanipulation than you do, now you gonna lose your spot.

  • Khalisto.5780Khalisto.5780 Member ✭✭✭

    @KingstonWD.2047 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:
    I had 5 games, each with someone throwing.
    Map chat is "ill pay everyone on the enemy team 10g to let me win"..

    Got annoyed, figured I would start recording and post to the world the state of GW2 PvP, told a dude I had him and his guild recorded (well known guild too from ATs).. He started playing properly after that and we almost won after being down 200 points.

    If anyone is good with video editing, make a montage of several matches being thrown and manipulated.. Post it up on these forums, other forums and hopefully something gets done about it.

    End rant, sorry guys just frustrated that my game time today was nothing but pure frustration.

    I learned during season 6, that you get ostracized when you take bold actions to expose these activities. Many people within the community who partake in them begin to view you as an enemy, and will even make sport of going out of their way to make your matches worse than they are now. They like to give people subtle reminders of why they should be keeping their mouths shut.

    When I had mentioned in previous threads that: "The top of our leaderboards are controlled & moderated by a fascist like inner-circle, who picks & chooses who they like and don't like, and who plays high and who doesn't" I wasn't joking around about that, and I had chosen the usage of my words carefully.

    The other thing I learned is that no matter how loud we get about exposing players who are participating in this, nothing we do matters unless Arenanet cares and wants to take real action against it. So far the best we've seen is wrist slapping and single season suspensions, and then main culprits are allowed right back in to do it again. I often wonder if this is because they do not want to ban players who offer free commercialism via twitch, which I would fully understand to be perfectly honest. If this is the case, I would say to Arenanet that it is important to recognize at this point, that this free commercialization is no longer helping to strengthen Arenanet's product. It only helps strengthen the repute of the streamers themselves. In truth, they are ruining Arenanet's product and running off the consumer base in the process.

    All in all I can't help but believe that Arenanet already knows exactly what's going on and who is involved. If I could learn so much simply through interacting with the community in-game, I couldn't imagine what Arenanet must know with the mechanisms they have access to. A junior networker could come in on an internship, getting paid nothing, monitor the servers for even just 24 hours, and get a strong handle on all of the patterns and what was going on. Can you imagine what he would see if he did this for an entire pvp season? The patterns of IP addresses in que and who they happen to que with alone, would have to yield enough incriminating evidence to clean up this problem, yet here we are, it is still happening, it gets worse each season because it goes unchecked. After really sitting and considering the above ^ I believe it is being allowed to happen on purpose, for whatever reason that may be.

    The hilarious thing about all of this, is that it was enabled through solo/duo only que. If we want to play, we are forced to feed the match manipulation activity, because we can no longer que as a 5 man team to block ourselves from it.

    Just a heads up, be careful how you go about exposing any of this. Always do it anonymously, and make sure no one knows that you are doing it all.

    Ahhh, you hit the the spot here mate!
    This is soooo true, so much changes need to happen. Sadly nothing will. I guess all we have left is to just try to enjoy wether you win or lose.
    I guess its time for us to build an "inhouse" type of PvP where we get people in a guild and we organise our small tournaments in the guild pvp arena or we open exclusive custom arenas and we have a dedicated website for this inhouses to be announced and organised.
    If there is anything like this, please hit me up i probably have missed it!

    If you're willing to do this, count me in.

  • Khalisto.5780Khalisto.5780 Member ✭✭✭

    @Rukario.1695 said:
    Sounds like player chat from the opposing team should be invisible.

    Allowing cooperation between negligent team members (of both teams) to throw matches should never have been given the means to be possible anyway.

    Don't you mean visible?

    Either way in the highest ranks they all know each other and jump to their raidcalls, nothing is set up on in-game chats

  • bluri.2653bluri.2653 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 17, 2019

    @Ragnar.4257 said:
    Riiiight, Moon landings were fake, 9/11 was inside job, Queen Elizabeth is a 10,000 year old lizard and 2008 crash was Illuminati.

    Look, I'm not saying this stuff never happens, but the way people talk here you'd think this is going on in nearly every game, across all tiers. I hate to break it to you, but nobody is win-trading in Gold tier or Unranked. If your team throws a game there, it's because, they suck and threw the game. Not because Illuminati. Outside of the top 10 this is 100% pointless and irrelevant.

    www.twitch.tv/sindrener - Rank 55 Dragons/Orange Logo/Team Aggression

  • Gamble.4580Gamble.4580 Member ✭✭✭

    I think allot has gone way of track to point we talking about moon landings.!
    Do some people match fix? Yes but very rare and random. Do allot of top players know each other? Yes and over 4 years of pvp building relationships ofc voice coms are going to be shared and that’s smart game play! But you have to remember most people at top do t actually like each other so it’s 50/50 and I think hopping on voice coms is a great thing and what should happen in pvp. Do think think some people play many different tactics to get number one spot? Yes I think there is better times to play and how many games u play as well as haveing a amazing duo who is good on many different classes aswell as playing only broken classes will get you in top 5. But that’s open to everyone..
    And for the 10g never seen it apart from trolling and as for the fake d!c only see a d/c one every 10 games and I put most down to d/c as I d/c sometimes and I get mail trolling for me fake d/c when in fact I just d/c lmao
    I think being in top ten there is many problems you face but if u make top ten u need to slow down and play smart to keep that spot

  • bluri.2653bluri.2653 Member ✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Ragnar.4257 said:
    Riiiight, Moon landings were fake, 9/11 was inside job, Queen Elizabeth is a 10,000 year old lizard and 2008 crash was Illuminati.

    Look, I'm not saying this stuff never happens, but the way people talk here you'd think this is going on in nearly every game, across all tiers. I hate to break it to you, but nobody is win-trading in Gold tier or Unranked. If your team throws a game there, it's because, they suck and threw the game. Not because Illuminati. Outside of the top 10 this is 100% pointless and irrelevant.

    @bluri.2653

    The top 25 is gated in NA. Any player who isn't paying or found a way to gain the favor of the shall-mention-no-names, won't be playing in the top 25. And if you kitten off the shall-mention-no-names, you'll find yourself on a lose streak right down into gold 3, until you set yourself offline and lay real low for awhile.

    But that's the least of the problems in NA. There has been an outbreak of kids learning how to perform half match manipulation within the recent year, and it does effect everyone. It effects lower tiers much less than higher tiers, but there are levels of unfair things happening in every tier.

    These two posts that I had recently made in a different thread are a fairly accurate summary of what is happening in NA right now:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Most people think that the match manipulation is all tied to win trading, but it isn't. There are still a handful of people performing serious win trading activities, those of which who seem to never get caught, suspiciously enough. But the bulk of the rando match manipulation has nothing to do with win trading or bribing for throws or anything like that. Most of the match manipulation isn't even against the TOS, which is why it has gotten so bad. The bulk of the kitten is like this:

    • 75% of mms is nothing more than General Smurfing. Yes, it isn't even against the TOS. Players who have several alt accounts, whether paid for with expansions or f2p, these accounts are actually in their own name, therefore it is not against the TOS for them to play on those accounts. The problem lies that some player actually performs at a 1650ish rating on his main account, but he has several alt accounts that he alternates on, and only uses them on rare occasions to dink around on a class he is trying to learn "so he appear as embarrassing on his main while doing it", or to help some said given friend who plays at a much lower elo, achieve some desired bare minimal plat 1 rating. So his alt account even when being played rather actively, is never actually achieving the rating he could achieve if he tried on it. The alt accounts also sit for enormously long periods of time in between play, so whenever he logs into them, they always have large actual MMR decay, even though he actively plays all day long on his main. This creates general smurfing effects, which completely throws off the purpose of the match maker. I actually purchased and upgraded and alt account with both expansions, very specifically so I could do the same thing, with friends who play at much lower elo ratings than I do. Every time I log into this account, usually once or twice during a season, I am doing it to que with friends who want to play, that I don't want to risk playing with on my main, because they ride 1350 levels or something. But when I log into this alt, I always ride some kind of a 10 game winning streak and go on a Jason Vorhees like rampage in g2 games. When I notice the match maker catching up and updating data, I log off the account and let it go back into decay for a month or two, so we can do the same thing again next season. I've spoken to other users who do the same thing for their friends. <- This kind of thing is just General Smurfing, it isn't against the TOS, but it is in every way match manipulation, and this sort of thing is happening all day long in just about every other match we are in. This is the largest reason why matches are so kitten funky lately.
    • 15% of mms seems to be the margin in which you run into actual Throwing, whether it is due to bribery or maybe someone on your team is on one of his alt accounts at the time, and would rather see you or someone else on your team lose rating, than gain it. In fact, there are higher rated players who own several alt accounts "In their names so it isn't against TOS", who purposely play alts up into higher ranges, specifically so they can land in games with other higher rated players that threaten the rating margins, so they can throw games on them, and knock them out of threatening ranges. They don't care about the ratings of these alts, the alts are being played to tank other people's ratings when they run into them. If the player who threatens them is on the opposing team, then they try hard to win vs. that player. This is exceedingly easy to do nowadays, because of the low population allowing the match maker to reluctantly make matches where 1700s are with and against players in g3 or sometimes even g2. This gives the alt throw phasing a lot of wiggle room to work their magic. They can play around 1500 range and get to choose when they want to play hard for a win, or throw a game, with alarming accuracy in that decision. The reason is because a placement in a match of around 1500, but actually being played by someone plat 2+, is a milestone position to be in, in terms of how much of a difference that player makes if he chooses to try hard at the actual plat 2+ rating or throw. If he tries hard, a placement in your team that was only supposed to be 1500, who suddenly begins performing at 1650+ is a huge momentum shift. But if he decides to throw, the 1500 placement isn't exactly a weak placement, the algorithm definitely expected this person to do SOMETHING, so when he throws, you're losing a 1500 role on your team, which is a detrimental 4v5 situation. In other words, if he was placed as a 1250, it wouldn't be as bad of a 4v5 situation, because the algorithm wasn't expecting him to do much anyway. 1500+ throws, are the types of throws that result in 500 to 100 situations.
    • 10% of mms is the small margin in which actual organized Win Trading happens. It isn't often guys, but it is still around. When it is happening, it's pretty obvious and everyone should be reporting it.

    The ultimate point I'm trying to make here is that like 90% of the match manipulations that are happening, is just general smurfing and alt phase throws. These players are using accounts that are purchased in their name, and they are technically doing nothing wrong. Even if you considered favoritism and throw tactics to be suspendable, how is Anet suppose to prove that any of that is happening? This is the tuff situation Anet has left us in with some of their marketing & patching decisions. Unfortunately there are only two reasonable actions at this point, if Anet cares about the state of ranked mode pvp at all:

    1. Stop allowing f2p accounts from joining ranked ques, period. No exceptions.
    2. Once again enable 5 man ques in ranked so that players who want to block their team from mole throws, can protect themselves.

    Oh and INB4: "But I HATES 2 go against the 5 man teams!" Anyone who would respond with this, needs to seriously ask themselves: "Aren't I still going against a 5+ man team when I'm being thrown or win traded against?" Solo/Duo is an illusion and ya'all need to wake up from it.

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Khalisto.5780 said:
    what rank is this. starting from bronze 3 now in gold 3 over 500 matches I think I've played max 5 matches I think were match manipulation or ppl really faked well. In lower ranks they are just toxic as I was, we lost mid fight, whole game is lost, afk. 1, 3, 1 in the start, afk. Teammates losing 2v1, afk. I didnt like your outfit, afk. Double thief, afk, and so on. Toxic ppl most of the time not wintraders. If you're talking about plat 2. and up you might be right.

    You're seeing it, you've probably just not played long enough to able to recognize what it is you're seeing.

    Unfortunately for newer players unto the scene, they have no ability to compare & contrast the monkey business going on nowadays vs. say 4 years ago, when population was much higher, f2p wasn't a thing, fewer players even knew how to perform win trading, and the ratio of match manipulations vs. clean matches was like 1/20 instead of 1/3. If you had played in year 1, 2, or 3 as example, you would be able to remember what a real match looks like, when players are actually trying hard, when everyone is on their main accounts, no one is smurfing, and no one is win trading or throwing for some misc. reason. The closest thing I can example to you, to explain what that felt like, is if you go to play in an AT now. If you play in ATs, even with an all gold 2 team, you'll see that the flow of the matches is NEVER suspicious.

    Let me further example this so you have a better idea of how to spot obvious match manipulation.

    In ATs matches generally flow like this. Remember that ATs are 5 man chosen teams, and the chances are virtually 0% for a match manipulation to happen:

    • Two teams are facing off and one team seems to be dominant after the initial split first rotation. Even though the Blue team knows it's going to lose, they still try hard in hopes that maybe the Red team might fumble a rotation and allow them a comeback. The match ends something like 500 to 400. But the "feel" of the mechanical skills of the players on both teams was consistent through the entire match. There were no moments where "ALL OF A SUDDEN The Red team comes back from the grave at 200 to 400 and magically begins mechanically outplaying the Blue team as if they suddenly pokemon like evolved from gold 1 players into plat 2+ players mid game and began dominating with a triple cap rampage that couldn't be broken." or "All of a sudden, some guy that was clearly outplaying everyone with superior mechanical combat skills, begins to walk onto nodes only spamming 1 and never using his heal, as if he were wanting the other team to farm him."
    • Sometimes a comeback can happen in an AT, but when it does, it isn't from bad players who were getting crunched mechanically in combat, suddenly pokemon evolving into plat 3 players half way through the match. Real comebacks in real matches, happen from clutch rotations or one team secures an important objective, or very rarely the dominant team makes a serious fumble or someone IRL actually DCs. The point being is that player's mechanical combat skill factors remain steady through the entire match.
    • Sometimes in ATs, the match is a slaughter. You get a Monthly AT worthy team going against some guys who just joined to get 5g. The match is going to end up being 500 to 0 or maybe 500 to 40 or something if the strong team is getting lazy and doing funny things instead of taking the match seriously. The point being is that during these kinds of matches, the mechanical skill factors of the players on each team remain exactly the same through the entire match as they were in the beginning.

    In Unranked, it is solo or duo or trio or quad or 5 man, yes. But there is no competitive incentive to perform match manipulations. The only incentive to perform a match manipulation in Unranked, is if you wanted to for some reason attempt to grind reward tracks? I assure you, no one is going out of their way to form organized win trading to grind reward tracks. If a person really wanted to grind loot, there are far far more lucrative places to do that in Guild Wars 2. Unranked matches flow like this:

    • You get some serious trollol builds joining in Unranked. People just having fun, or people practicing new things, doesn't matter. The point being is that in Unranked matches it generally has the same type of flow as AT matches. In fact it is so similar, that there is no reason but to make one asterisk here. The idea to keep in mind is that players are either winning or they are losing, and comebacks are rare, and they happen through clutch plays, not sudden evolvement or de-evolution of player's mechanical skill values. The players you are with or against are staying the same skill level, visually, clearly, tangibly when you fight them. You can tell people are actually trying at their actual skill levels.

    Old matches in Ranked from times past, when the population was high. They flowed like this:

    • Everything exampled in the above was even MORE true 4+ years ago. Now we have various teams of various skill levels going against each other in ATs, or in Unranked the hidden MMRs which function basically just like Ranked, we have 1700 level Unrankers getting teamed with and against 1400s or maybe even lower during off peak hours. But in matches 4+ years ago, those gaps in skill margins were less than half of what they are now. You had 1700s getting put with and against 1800s and maybe 1650s. Back then the 1750s would complain if they had a 1650 on their team ^^ Point being is that the games were actually quite a bit more balance than they are now. It was rare to see 500 to 100 blowouts or even 500 to 250 type situations. Generally about 8/10 matches back then looked more like 500 to 400. Again, it was even MORE true back then, about how you could clearly see the level in which every play was playing at, and that it did not suddenly change halfway through a match. The match quality was just better back then.

    Matches in Ranked now.... post S6, when the beans got spilled. What happened was that during S6, a particular popular streamer was suspended for win trading.
    Then some particular old pro players were suspended for other things. And then people began talking on Reddit & The Official Forum, about what exactly was win trading, and how were they doing it? Long story short, during S6, so much discussion was perked about this, that everyone learned how to do it. And by S7, when these people who were suspended or banned were allowed to come back and keep doing it while remaining safe while doing it with new types of methods, other players also saw how to do it safely, and that Arenanet either could not prove what they were doing, or possibly didn't care at all that it was happening. Here is how matches flow in Ranked today:

    • On an average day, about half of your matches will be clean. About half of your matches will look and feel like the matches I had described in previous examples, where there are no sudden evolutions or de-evolutions of player skill factors. The other half of your matches... well...
    • About 1/4th of your matches may feel generally lopsided the entire game, as if the algorithm were targeting you to make you lose. The game starts and you're immediately met with the realization that your team is going to lose after the initial split. Your team wipes 3v3 at mid in a little less than 20s. Your guy who pushed far didn't even hold long, got chopped nearly as fast as the guys at mid, and now you're standing at home finishing the cap, figuring out how you're going to survive and regroup from the snowball. You end up losing the match 250 to 500. Nothing looked suspicious so to say, but the match just felt like improper placement. Sometimes in those 1/4th of your matches you are the one who gets on the winning team of 500 to 250. But in these 1/4th of games, there is still no real sudden evolution or de-evolution of player mechanical skills. <- This is all effects of low population and general smurfing, players who play at plat 2+ levels who are on alts that are being placed in teams at 1400 levels. This is how these kind of games happen. No one is necessarily throwing or win trading.
    • The other 1/4th of your matches.. are completely botched and make no sense at all. Seriously at least 1/4th of Ranked games are like this nowadays.. You start off the match and your team is just smashing the other team. You end up with this lead of 350 to 150, and you're thinking: "Ok this is an easy match, we're going to win." You can clearly see that your team is mechanically outplaying the other team. As if your team were stacked with plat 2s and the other team had gold 2s. And then ALL OF A SUDDEN, you have a player or two on your team just randomly begin to play like complete utter garbage. They somehow were winning 1v2s halfway through the game, repeatedly, with clearly visually superior mechanical skills, but then devolve into a player who seemingly doesn't know his class, or role, or even where his buttons are. <- That is not normal, and that is not something we've seen like this in the previous 5 or 6 years of the game. This is a phenomenon that began trending after the secrets of win trading and alt throwing were unleashed into the community. I remember once I was on the losing team, and I wasn't even getting mad, but I was getting very serious about trying to give rotational intel into the /t chat, I was trying hard to get them to win. Then this guy from our team on an account I had never once seen before, whispers me and says: "We're good, just watch." and then ALL OFF A SUDDEN, the other team just sort of stopped trying. A couple of their players began doing very stupid things. Things that were too stupid to be real. My team was able to come back from the grave from like a 200 point difference and win the game. It didn't happen from a clutch play or rotation, or securing a clutch objective. It happened because the other team suddenly devolved into players who didn't know their class, job roles, or even where their buttons where. That's just one example of many many others I could give you, where there was a moment that I knew I was caught in the middle of some kind of a win trade or throw.

    So yeah, for those of you who weren't around in earlier years or who don't play ATs, to be able to see what real matches look like and feel like vs. the kitten we have going on in Ranked today, there is the difference for you, laid out for your enjoyment & recognition.

    Record your games and post them here with what games you believe are wintraded so i can laugh at you

    www.twitch.tv/sindrener - Rank 55 Dragons/Orange Logo/Team Aggression

  • Ziggityzog.7389Ziggityzog.7389 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 17, 2019

    Funny part is the wintrade wars was proven correct last season. Lol "top" player went like what 109-13 and now this season is no where to be seen. Before the season he is on record saying he sucks and would pay for a top spot.

    Yeah doesnt happen lol. Sadly the top hasn't been the top since season 5/6. Just mostly joke trolls.

  • sitarskee.5738sitarskee.5738 Member ✭✭✭

    I played 2 placement matches and I decided to kitten ranked games. First game I got a soulbeast who went 1v4 when we were 50 points ahead of the enemy team, he died, flamed us and went on to jump around in spawn till the end of the match which made us lose the game. I probably am going to get banned for that match because I got into discussion with the guy unnecessarily but I couldn't stand it. In the second game I got a duo who right after the start said they're sorry but they're trolling because this gamemode is kitten. Even though I've played this game for few years, this is my second season of PvP and I have to say that it's just sickening how often cancerous situations like this happen. I wish trolls and match manipulators got taken care of by ANet. But they won't, they will still play and destroy pvp experience and remain virgin losers till GW2 is all about skins, casuals and single player experience.

    Maybe I went a little bit offtopic but, yeah. Match manipulation should be an instant permaban for ranked games. I don't understand why ANet decided to implement PvP in the first place when there is noone REALLY taking care of it.

  • Ragnar.4257Ragnar.4257 Member ✭✭✭
  • Ragnar.4257Ragnar.4257 Member ✭✭✭

    Yes, I am Sindrener-Alt, confirmed.

  • bluri.2653bluri.2653 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ragnar.4257 said:
    Yes, I am Sindrener-Alt, confirmed.

    😂😂😂 ye they arent blind bruh

    www.twitch.tv/sindrener - Rank 55 Dragons/Orange Logo/Team Aggression

  • Ziggityzog.7389Ziggityzog.7389 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It would be best for everyone if those who have been banned for previous wintrading to be banned from forum chat. That way least something is prema banned if not their character account.

    I always find it ironic those claiming wintrading is a myth but partake in wintrading. It's pretty sad.. but that's a basement troll for ya.

  • Meteor.3720Meteor.3720 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 17, 2019

    @praqtos.9035 said:
    Wasnt top1 on NA a wintrader that got a free pass ? So you think your rant will change something?
    And wintrading at start of the season makes no sense

    That individual has already lost more matches this season than they did for the whole of the last season, which is totally legit.

    I wouldn't be surprised if the main reason that individual hasn't been banned or removed from the ladder (as happened to some others previously) is because they're a famous AP hunter and probably buy a lot of gemstore rubbish. ANet doesn't want to anger their most devout whales.

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Meteor.3720 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:
    Wasnt top1 on NA a wintrader that got a free pass ? So you think your rant will change something?
    And wintrading at start of the season makes no sense

    That individual has already lost more matches this season than they did for the whole of the last season, which is totally legit.

    I wouldn't be surprised if the main reason that individual hasn't been banned or removed from the ladder (as happened to some others previously) is because they're a famous AP hunter and probably buy a lot of gemstore rubbish. ANet don't want to anger their most devout whales.

    Then I wonder why they just didnt let him buy all AP/titles he want from Anet directly :joy:

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 17, 2019

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Meteor.3720 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:
    Wasnt top1 on NA a wintrader that got a free pass ? So you think your rant will change something?
    And wintrading at start of the season makes no sense

    That individual has already lost more matches this season than they did for the whole of the last season, which is totally legit.

    I wouldn't be surprised if the main reason that individual hasn't been banned or removed from the ladder (as happened to some others previously) is because they're a famous AP hunter and probably buy a lot of gemstore rubbish. ANet don't want to anger their most devout whales.

    Then I wonder why they just didnt let him buy all AP/titles he want from Anet directly :joy:

    Wouldn't it be scary if he did?

  • Ragnar.4257Ragnar.4257 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 17, 2019

    To be clear, I'm not saying this stuff doesn't happen at all. I'm just saying some people seem to think it is impacting +50% of games, and it just really, really isn't. It is impacting, maybe 0.001% of games.

    Aside from mAT rewards, or top 5 titles, what would be the point? Who, in 2019, is actually gonna be impressed by a platinum badge or a merciless-legend title? You really think someone is gonna pay gold to win a game in G3? Nope, sorry, unless you're a contender for mAT final or top-5 ranked leaderboard, this isn't the reason for your 5-game losing streak.

    Yes, there are a handful of cases you can point to, but hey, guess what, those were all for top-end rewards. If someone "mysteriously" goes afk in a P1 game, the overwhelming likelihood is that he either rage-quit, takeaway just arrived at the door, phonecall, being harassed by partner, etc. Not the Smurfiarchy.

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 17, 2019

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Meteor.3720 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:
    Wasnt top1 on NA a wintrader that got a free pass ? So you think your rant will change something?
    And wintrading at start of the season makes no sense

    That individual has already lost more matches this season than they did for the whole of the last season, which is totally legit.

    I wouldn't be surprised if the main reason that individual hasn't been banned or removed from the ladder (as happened to some others previously) is because they're a famous AP hunter and probably buy a lot of gemstore rubbish. ANet don't want to anger their most devout whales.

    Then I wonder why they just didnt let him buy all AP/titles he want from Anet directly :joy:

    Wouldn't it be scary if he did?

    So, buying top1 from the players it is less scary?
    You are all late to the party, you should have started a riot when first time wintrading was spotted and punished not with just dishonor for 3 month and let them peacefully play whatevery they want,smurf on alts but bans/perma bans, 3 months of dishonor is pretty much nothing, meanwhile god forbid you insult someone, you are going to jail.
    Even more playing on alt accounts its another kind of legal "matchmaking manipulation" as you can throw games of your opponents and try hard to win them and drop from their spot while your main is safe. Its working here because of small player base

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Hilarious, and I completely agree. Here's an even more accurate meme:

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    You want to know what's real depraved?

    I've been noticing strange activity in unranked, since the start of specifically this season 17. I've never had this problem in unranked, ever. But the match quality is beginning to resemble the effects of obvious win trading and throwing. Why would anyone even do this in unranked? To troll people? To practice the method before using it in ranked? I don't know, but if unranked gets overran with casual manipulations like ranked, we really will see this game mode die. There will be nothing left to do but move to a new game.

    I noticed this too in the off season. Several players appeared like they were wintrading.

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • @sephiroth.4217 said:
    I had 5 games, each with someone throwing.
    Map chat is "ill pay everyone on the enemy team 10g to let me win"..

    Got annoyed, figured I would start recording and post to the world the state of GW2 PvP, told a dude I had him and his guild recorded (well known guild too from ATs).. He started playing properly after that and we almost won after being down 200 points.

    If anyone is good with video editing, make a montage of several matches being thrown and manipulated.. Post it up on these forums, other forums and hopefully something gets done about it.

    End rant, sorry guys just frustrated that my game time today was nothing but pure frustration.

    Every time I consider taking ranked seriously for some pipe-dream shot at a title, I get reminded of this kind of stacking.

    [Charr Noises]
    [Plays every class]
    [JUST GIT EVEN GUDDER ITS FINE]

  • Crius.5487Crius.5487 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ragnar.4257 said:
    Riiiight, Moon landings were fake, 9/11 was inside job, Queen Elizabeth is a 10,000 year old lizard and 2008 crash was Illuminati.

    Look, I'm not saying this stuff never happens, but the way people talk here you'd think this is going on in nearly every game, across all tiers. I hate to break it to you, but nobody is win-trading in Gold tier or Unranked. If your team throws a game there, it's because, they suck and threw the game. Not because Illuminati. Outside of the top 10 this is 100% pointless and irrelevant.

    Had an important phone call, was in an unranked game, so I answered it. Stopped moving for 30 seconds and got accused of match manipulation. Manipulating with whom? The person who called me who has never heard of the game?

    This guy is correct, match manipulation only occurs at the very top of the leader board. Match manipulation is when someone pays someone on the opposing team to throw the game. There's a hundred reasons why someone might stop responding during a match. Maybe someone other than a Jehovah witness was knocking on the door, maybe the neighborhood stray cat got ran over by a dump truck, maybe it was the Publishers Clearing House in which case they're probably already on a boat in the Bahama's so good luck. Most of the time it's a reason other than match manipulation--especially if you're in plat 2 or below or unranked.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Crius.5487 said:

    @Ragnar.4257 said:
    Riiiight, Moon landings were fake, 9/11 was inside job, Queen Elizabeth is a 10,000 year old lizard and 2008 crash was Illuminati.

    Look, I'm not saying this stuff never happens, but the way people talk here you'd think this is going on in nearly every game, across all tiers. I hate to break it to you, but nobody is win-trading in Gold tier or Unranked. If your team throws a game there, it's because, they suck and threw the game. Not because Illuminati. Outside of the top 10 this is 100% pointless and irrelevant.

    Had an important phone call, was in an unranked game, so I answered it. Stopped moving for 30 seconds and got accused of match manipulation. Manipulating with whom? The person who called me who has never heard of the game?

    This guy is correct, match manipulation only occurs at the very top of the leader board. Match manipulation is when someone pays someone on the opposing team to throw the game. There's a hundred reasons why someone might stop responding during a match. Maybe someone other than a Jehovah witness was knocking on the door, maybe the neighborhood stray cat got ran over by a dump truck, maybe it was the Publishers Clearing House in which case they're probably already on a boat in the Bahama's so good luck. Most of the time it's a reason other than match manipulation--especially if you're in plat 2 or below or unranked.

    I guess I must be a top player then.

    @bluri.2653 Coincidentally enough, directly after our interaction today I had gone to do a few placement matches for season 17. I immediately was reminded why I told myself last season, that I wasn't going to play season 17. Check out what happened:

  • Crius.5487Crius.5487 Member ✭✭✭

    I think that video is worthy of its own thread. Still wouldn't go as far to call it match manipulation--how would one person coordinate with your entire team to stay at spawn? ANET should definitely look into that one though.

    Off of the video but onto another complaint people (and myself) have which isn't but is commonly referred to as match manipulation are the players (bots too) who are only there for the reward track progress and pips. These players don't care about winning and don't even try which really hurts the other players on the team who are trying to win. A suggestion I have to combat this is to make the dailies only count if the match is won. Reward track progress and pips for season rewards will only be earned if the match is won. If you lose, you get nothing. It's suppose to be a competitive game mode--there should be no reason to come if you're not willing to compete.

  • PaRaPhReNiA.8763PaRaPhReNiA.8763 Member ✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Crius.5487 said:

    @Ragnar.4257 said:
    Riiiight, Moon landings were fake, 9/11 was inside job, Queen Elizabeth is a 10,000 year old lizard and 2008 crash was Illuminati.

    Look, I'm not saying this stuff never happens, but the way people talk here you'd think this is going on in nearly every game, across all tiers. I hate to break it to you, but nobody is win-trading in Gold tier or Unranked. If your team throws a game there, it's because, they suck and threw the game. Not because Illuminati. Outside of the top 10 this is 100% pointless and irrelevant.

    Had an important phone call, was in an unranked game, so I answered it. Stopped moving for 30 seconds and got accused of match manipulation. Manipulating with whom? The person who called me who has never heard of the game?

    This guy is correct, match manipulation only occurs at the very top of the leader board. Match manipulation is when someone pays someone on the opposing team to throw the game. There's a hundred reasons why someone might stop responding during a match. Maybe someone other than a Jehovah witness was knocking on the door, maybe the neighborhood stray cat got ran over by a dump truck, maybe it was the Publishers Clearing House in which case they're probably already on a boat in the Bahama's so good luck. Most of the time it's a reason other than match manipulation--especially if you're in plat 2 or below or unranked.

    I guess I must be a top player then.

    @bluri.2653 Coincidentally enough, directly after our interaction today I had gone to do a few placement matches for season 17. I immediately was reminded why I told myself last season, that I wasn't going to play season 17. Check out what happened:

    And where is the wintrade? I'm sorry but whenever bad players (and judging by that gameplay you are one) lose like 3games in a row, they go to the forums and start posting threads about match manipulation or how bad the matchmaking is... Spoiler Alert guys: you are just too bad to carry, live with it or dont, but i'd say for most cases here its the truth :(

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