5 matches, 5 match manipulaters. - Page 3 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

5 matches, 5 match manipulaters.

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  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 27, 2019

    @bluri.2653 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @bluri.2653 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @bluri.2653 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    @sephiroth.4217 That's the kind of thing I'm talking about concerning general manipulations. These people aren't idle AFK players. They are sitting there in front of their screen, with salty demeanor as they rage quit at 50 to 100 after getting killed once. There needs to be more serious punishment for such buffoonery, to encourage players to not do it in the first place. The biggest problem with this type of behavior is that nowadays, when one quits they all start quitting. One guy quits and someone else notices and says "Oh it's 4v5 now, GG" and then he also rage AFKs. <- This is match throwing. Now if it were like 300 to 60, I understand players throwing in the towel to more quickly end the lopsided match, but 100 to 50 type situations are no reason to rage AFK. Players with such poor sportsmanship should not be allowed into ranked ques.

    The frequency of this garbage nowadays is just amazing. At least it is in NA.

    its happening quite a bit.

    despite what people say, I can tell the difference between match manipulation and this example of throwing. The last video had gold involved and chat being used for throwing.. thats match manipulation.
    this video is just the general throw that happens if mid fight wasn't favourable.

    Ye look at my live wintrading and match manipulation live streamed right here

    https://youtu.be/VPV0l5S8GVI?t=825 afk player gg match manipulation

    https://youtu.be/VPV0l5S8GVI?t=1457 4 dead mid instant gg throw on purpose

    https://youtu.be/VPV0l5S8GVI?t=1713 afk guard again... match manipulation gg

    only you would think this is about you.

    its for both you and trevor since he mentioned as soon as people afk in spawn its wintrading and ur agreeing with him, or your first post of 5 games = 5 manipulated :))

    i didnt agree with anyone. I said I know the difference despite what some say.

    first games I had involved chat being used for payments to win.. that was match manipulation.
    the second video was someone having a throw because the poor necro was focused.

    you seem to have trouble understanding this for what ever reason.

    Both cases are just as bad which is why im going to thank you for posting more evidence on the current state of ranked.

    Evidence on the current state of ranked? These type of games have existed since the beginning of the game, I have had people afk when it was lost since pre HoT times and you think suddenly now its some conspiracy match manipulation? Do you feel its a purpose playing when its 400-100 and you have had 20 deaths on your team?

    If anything the match making has its issues due to the low population in gw2 there is no other conspiracy behind it as you two seem to constantly think where each and every game is wintrading, that is nothing but salty tears.

    I am telling you that if there is even a slight possibility while queuing and I can end up with a game that differs 400-500 rating with me as a player and my teammate there is something wrong dont you think? This is the reason why these games exists, and even if there was a limit to 100 rating difference these games will still exist because of comps/lack of players

    Perfect example being 5 ESL players being 1700 rated and accidentally gets into the same team vs 5 non ESL players and it becomes 500-0 - the game has no knowledge that these people once upon a time used to compete in this game right? It only takes the rating and tries to balance the game.

    Also theres no possibility to limit search of a match with rating difference since that would end up the top tier never getting q pop.

    https://imgur.com/a/tM1Qwza

    Here i was 1900 rated and we ended up playing players that had 47% winratio and around 1230 rating, thats a whooping 700 rating difference :)

    okay sweetie.
    as I said earlier, thank you for posting more evidence.

    also Im well aware of matchmaking and its why I laugh when people say it doesnt happen below plat.

    if the devs actually did anything about this then we might not have reached this point to begin with.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    06210311 251521 121512

  • James.1065James.1065 Member ✭✭✭

    @PaRaPhReNiA.8763 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Crius.5487 said:

    @Ragnar.4257 said:
    Riiiight, Moon landings were fake, 9/11 was inside job, Queen Elizabeth is a 10,000 year old lizard and 2008 crash was Illuminati.

    Look, I'm not saying this stuff never happens, but the way people talk here you'd think this is going on in nearly every game, across all tiers. I hate to break it to you, but nobody is win-trading in Gold tier or Unranked. If your team throws a game there, it's because, they suck and threw the game. Not because Illuminati. Outside of the top 10 this is 100% pointless and irrelevant.

    Had an important phone call, was in an unranked game, so I answered it. Stopped moving for 30 seconds and got accused of match manipulation. Manipulating with whom? The person who called me who has never heard of the game?

    This guy is correct, match manipulation only occurs at the very top of the leader board. Match manipulation is when someone pays someone on the opposing team to throw the game. There's a hundred reasons why someone might stop responding during a match. Maybe someone other than a Jehovah witness was knocking on the door, maybe the neighborhood stray cat got ran over by a dump truck, maybe it was the Publishers Clearing House in which case they're probably already on a boat in the Bahama's so good luck. Most of the time it's a reason other than match manipulation--especially if you're in plat 2 or below or unranked.

    I guess I must be a top player then.

    @bluri.2653 Coincidentally enough, directly after our interaction today I had gone to do a few placement matches for season 17. I immediately was reminded why I told myself last season, that I wasn't going to play season 17. Check out what happened:

    And where is the wintrade? I'm sorry but whenever bad players (and judging by that gameplay you are one) lose like 3games in a row, they go to the forums and start posting threads about match manipulation or how bad the matchmaking is... Spoiler Alert guys: you are just too bad to carry, live with it or dont, but i'd say for most cases here its the truth :(

    Sorry but you get bad players, and then you get idiots that join a game and sit at the spawn.... this is happening super often in gold and plat.

    It may not be win trading but it sure is manipulating the outcome of the game for everyone else in that game that did want a decent match

  • pukish.5784pukish.5784 Member ✭✭

    What's difference between match manipulation and being despaired AFK?
    Weak players like me often AFK when they realize their team mate is bad.
    That's mental issue mostly. Top players rarely give up and they have always positive attitude.

  • All I see are unsubstantiated conspiracy theories. There is no match manipulation going on. The low population and prevalence of salty players contribute to generally poor quality of games, especially in off hours.

    I have had players who give up after losing the first mid fight or after going 100 points down. Is that match manipulation? No... it’s just stupidity.

  • bluri.2653bluri.2653 Member ✭✭✭

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @bluri.2653 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @bluri.2653 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @bluri.2653 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    @sephiroth.4217 That's the kind of thing I'm talking about concerning general manipulations. These people aren't idle AFK players. They are sitting there in front of their screen, with salty demeanor as they rage quit at 50 to 100 after getting killed once. There needs to be more serious punishment for such buffoonery, to encourage players to not do it in the first place. The biggest problem with this type of behavior is that nowadays, when one quits they all start quitting. One guy quits and someone else notices and says "Oh it's 4v5 now, GG" and then he also rage AFKs. <- This is match throwing. Now if it were like 300 to 60, I understand players throwing in the towel to more quickly end the lopsided match, but 100 to 50 type situations are no reason to rage AFK. Players with such poor sportsmanship should not be allowed into ranked ques.

    The frequency of this garbage nowadays is just amazing. At least it is in NA.

    its happening quite a bit.

    despite what people say, I can tell the difference between match manipulation and this example of throwing. The last video had gold involved and chat being used for throwing.. thats match manipulation.
    this video is just the general throw that happens if mid fight wasn't favourable.

    Ye look at my live wintrading and match manipulation live streamed right here

    https://youtu.be/VPV0l5S8GVI?t=825 afk player gg match manipulation

    https://youtu.be/VPV0l5S8GVI?t=1457 4 dead mid instant gg throw on purpose

    https://youtu.be/VPV0l5S8GVI?t=1713 afk guard again... match manipulation gg

    only you would think this is about you.

    its for both you and trevor since he mentioned as soon as people afk in spawn its wintrading and ur agreeing with him, or your first post of 5 games = 5 manipulated :))

    i didnt agree with anyone. I said I know the difference despite what some say.

    first games I had involved chat being used for payments to win.. that was match manipulation.
    the second video was someone having a throw because the poor necro was focused.

    you seem to have trouble understanding this for what ever reason.

    Both cases are just as bad which is why im going to thank you for posting more evidence on the current state of ranked.

    Evidence on the current state of ranked? These type of games have existed since the beginning of the game, I have had people afk when it was lost since pre HoT times and you think suddenly now its some conspiracy match manipulation? Do you feel its a purpose playing when its 400-100 and you have had 20 deaths on your team?

    If anything the match making has its issues due to the low population in gw2 there is no other conspiracy behind it as you two seem to constantly think where each and every game is wintrading, that is nothing but salty tears.

    I am telling you that if there is even a slight possibility while queuing and I can end up with a game that differs 400-500 rating with me as a player and my teammate there is something wrong dont you think? This is the reason why these games exists, and even if there was a limit to 100 rating difference these games will still exist because of comps/lack of players

    Perfect example being 5 ESL players being 1700 rated and accidentally gets into the same team vs 5 non ESL players and it becomes 500-0 - the game has no knowledge that these people once upon a time used to compete in this game right? It only takes the rating and tries to balance the game.

    Also theres no possibility to limit search of a match with rating difference since that would end up the top tier never getting q pop.

    https://imgur.com/a/tM1Qwza

    Here i was 1900 rated and we ended up playing players that had 47% winratio and around 1230 rating, thats a whooping 700 rating difference :)

    okay sweetie.
    as I said earlier, thank you for posting more evidence.

    also Im well aware of matchmaking and its why I laugh when people say it doesnt happen below plat.

    if the devs actually did anything about this then we might not have reached this point to begin with.

    NP, I post evidence of something that is hard to solve with this low population, how would you fix it? Would you limit how far the match maker can search for games? Devs have already tried to limit this, this ended up with us not getting QPOP whatsoever, is that a good way forward you think? We can go back so far where we had PIPS with ruby/diamond etc.

    When you were the first ones to reach diamond you could sit in q for 2 days without q pop btw since it limited diamond vs diamond players and couldnt search further. This is how it will end up if we limit the match maker, so what is your suggestion to fix this problem?

    How do you increase the quality in the games? Lock professions/comps? Who determines whats a good comp? If i get into a game with 5 roamers and versus a full teamfight/duelist comp you think thats good? How do you prevent this?

    Im genuinly interested in hearing how you would fix any of this

    www.twitch.tv/sindrener - Rank 55 Dragons/Orange Logo/Team Aggression

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @JuanAtreyu.9043 said:
    All I see are unsubstantiated conspiracy theories. There is no match manipulation going on. The low population and prevalence of salty players contribute to generally poor quality of games, especially in off hours.

    I have had players who give up after losing the first mid fight or after going 100 points down. Is that match manipulation? No... it’s just stupidity.

    which is the second video. both cases just as bad as each other.

    theres literally nothing to stop these players.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    06210311 251521 121512

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 27, 2019

    @bluri.2653 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @bluri.2653 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @bluri.2653 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @bluri.2653 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    @sephiroth.4217 That's the kind of thing I'm talking about concerning general manipulations. These people aren't idle AFK players. They are sitting there in front of their screen, with salty demeanor as they rage quit at 50 to 100 after getting killed once. There needs to be more serious punishment for such buffoonery, to encourage players to not do it in the first place. The biggest problem with this type of behavior is that nowadays, when one quits they all start quitting. One guy quits and someone else notices and says "Oh it's 4v5 now, GG" and then he also rage AFKs. <- This is match throwing. Now if it were like 300 to 60, I understand players throwing in the towel to more quickly end the lopsided match, but 100 to 50 type situations are no reason to rage AFK. Players with such poor sportsmanship should not be allowed into ranked ques.

    The frequency of this garbage nowadays is just amazing. At least it is in NA.

    its happening quite a bit.

    despite what people say, I can tell the difference between match manipulation and this example of throwing. The last video had gold involved and chat being used for throwing.. thats match manipulation.
    this video is just the general throw that happens if mid fight wasn't favourable.

    Ye look at my live wintrading and match manipulation live streamed right here

    https://youtu.be/VPV0l5S8GVI?t=825 afk player gg match manipulation

    https://youtu.be/VPV0l5S8GVI?t=1457 4 dead mid instant gg throw on purpose

    https://youtu.be/VPV0l5S8GVI?t=1713 afk guard again... match manipulation gg

    only you would think this is about you.

    its for both you and trevor since he mentioned as soon as people afk in spawn its wintrading and ur agreeing with him, or your first post of 5 games = 5 manipulated :))

    i didnt agree with anyone. I said I know the difference despite what some say.

    first games I had involved chat being used for payments to win.. that was match manipulation.
    the second video was someone having a throw because the poor necro was focused.

    you seem to have trouble understanding this for what ever reason.

    Both cases are just as bad which is why im going to thank you for posting more evidence on the current state of ranked.

    Evidence on the current state of ranked? These type of games have existed since the beginning of the game, I have had people afk when it was lost since pre HoT times and you think suddenly now its some conspiracy match manipulation? Do you feel its a purpose playing when its 400-100 and you have had 20 deaths on your team?

    If anything the match making has its issues due to the low population in gw2 there is no other conspiracy behind it as you two seem to constantly think where each and every game is wintrading, that is nothing but salty tears.

    I am telling you that if there is even a slight possibility while queuing and I can end up with a game that differs 400-500 rating with me as a player and my teammate there is something wrong dont you think? This is the reason why these games exists, and even if there was a limit to 100 rating difference these games will still exist because of comps/lack of players

    Perfect example being 5 ESL players being 1700 rated and accidentally gets into the same team vs 5 non ESL players and it becomes 500-0 - the game has no knowledge that these people once upon a time used to compete in this game right? It only takes the rating and tries to balance the game.

    Also theres no possibility to limit search of a match with rating difference since that would end up the top tier never getting q pop.

    https://imgur.com/a/tM1Qwza

    Here i was 1900 rated and we ended up playing players that had 47% winratio and around 1230 rating, thats a whooping 700 rating difference :)

    okay sweetie.
    as I said earlier, thank you for posting more evidence.

    also Im well aware of matchmaking and its why I laugh when people say it doesnt happen below plat.

    if the devs actually did anything about this then we might not have reached this point to begin with.

    NP, I post evidence of something that is hard to solve with this low population, how would you fix it? Would you limit how far the match maker can search for games? Devs have already tried to limit this, this ended up with us not getting QPOP whatsoever, is that a good way forward you think? We can go back so far where we had PIPS with ruby/diamond etc.

    When you were the first ones to reach diamond you could sit in q for 2 days without q pop btw since it limited diamond vs diamond players and couldnt search further. This is how it will end up if we limit the match maker, so what is your suggestion to fix this problem?

    How do you increase the quality in the games? Lock professions/comps? Who determines whats a good comp? If i get into a game with 5 roamers and versus a full teamfight/duelist comp you think thats good? How do you prevent this?

    Im genuinly interested in hearing how you would fix any of this

    Yay we are on the same page now :blush:

    all good questions.
    personally id list a few options.. probably not the most ideal but a lot better than what we have.
    Bring back team queue.. If I get these players then its my own fault for not being in a premade.
    dont allow f2p accounts in ranked.
    update the report features so they work.
    I know its off topic but im just being polite and responding anyway.
    I honestly believe that most of our issues today have come about due to the changes made in season 5.

    but as for match manipulation as a whole (paid/thrower/butterfly exploring base)..
    Currently if I wanted too, I could make an alt and do the same because it occurred to me today that we have created a haven for such behavior. (extremely heavy thought too after making this thread and reading responses)

    because..
    Even if someone posts proof, there will be 3 users who say its something else, another user saying the poster doesn't know what they're talking about, another poster confirming what they're seeing only to be met with 4 or 5 people calling them delusional and other posters saying its just a myth.
    Reporting doesn't work, naming and shaming is usually deleted and swept under the rug.
    Without realizing it, we are protecting these players... Now I'm wondering why I don't just join in, it's not like I can lose integrity over a video game anyway.

    What we have now, is a normal everyday situation but yet back in season 1-4 and before seasons were even a thing, it was just an outlier problem. Due to the lack of action, its now NORMAL to have 4 out of 5 games with only 4 players. I think that's a major issue, the fact we call that normal.

    doesn't matter if its match manipulation involving gold or just salty players throwing after mid fight, it just needs to stop. There really needs to be something to deter these aholes from ruining the game for 9 other players.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    06210311 251521 121512

  • bluri.2653bluri.2653 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 27, 2019

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @bluri.2653 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @bluri.2653 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @bluri.2653 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @bluri.2653 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    @sephiroth.4217 That's the kind of thing I'm talking about concerning general manipulations. These people aren't idle AFK players. They are sitting there in front of their screen, with salty demeanor as they rage quit at 50 to 100 after getting killed once. There needs to be more serious punishment for such buffoonery, to encourage players to not do it in the first place. The biggest problem with this type of behavior is that nowadays, when one quits they all start quitting. One guy quits and someone else notices and says "Oh it's 4v5 now, GG" and then he also rage AFKs. <- This is match throwing. Now if it were like 300 to 60, I understand players throwing in the towel to more quickly end the lopsided match, but 100 to 50 type situations are no reason to rage AFK. Players with such poor sportsmanship should not be allowed into ranked ques.

    The frequency of this garbage nowadays is just amazing. At least it is in NA.

    its happening quite a bit.

    despite what people say, I can tell the difference between match manipulation and this example of throwing. The last video had gold involved and chat being used for throwing.. thats match manipulation.
    this video is just the general throw that happens if mid fight wasn't favourable.

    Ye look at my live wintrading and match manipulation live streamed right here

    https://youtu.be/VPV0l5S8GVI?t=825 afk player gg match manipulation

    https://youtu.be/VPV0l5S8GVI?t=1457 4 dead mid instant gg throw on purpose

    https://youtu.be/VPV0l5S8GVI?t=1713 afk guard again... match manipulation gg

    only you would think this is about you.

    its for both you and trevor since he mentioned as soon as people afk in spawn its wintrading and ur agreeing with him, or your first post of 5 games = 5 manipulated :))

    i didnt agree with anyone. I said I know the difference despite what some say.

    first games I had involved chat being used for payments to win.. that was match manipulation.
    the second video was someone having a throw because the poor necro was focused.

    you seem to have trouble understanding this for what ever reason.

    Both cases are just as bad which is why im going to thank you for posting more evidence on the current state of ranked.

    Evidence on the current state of ranked? These type of games have existed since the beginning of the game, I have had people afk when it was lost since pre HoT times and you think suddenly now its some conspiracy match manipulation? Do you feel its a purpose playing when its 400-100 and you have had 20 deaths on your team?

    If anything the match making has its issues due to the low population in gw2 there is no other conspiracy behind it as you two seem to constantly think where each and every game is wintrading, that is nothing but salty tears.

    I am telling you that if there is even a slight possibility while queuing and I can end up with a game that differs 400-500 rating with me as a player and my teammate there is something wrong dont you think? This is the reason why these games exists, and even if there was a limit to 100 rating difference these games will still exist because of comps/lack of players

    Perfect example being 5 ESL players being 1700 rated and accidentally gets into the same team vs 5 non ESL players and it becomes 500-0 - the game has no knowledge that these people once upon a time used to compete in this game right? It only takes the rating and tries to balance the game.

    Also theres no possibility to limit search of a match with rating difference since that would end up the top tier never getting q pop.

    https://imgur.com/a/tM1Qwza

    Here i was 1900 rated and we ended up playing players that had 47% winratio and around 1230 rating, thats a whooping 700 rating difference :)

    okay sweetie.
    as I said earlier, thank you for posting more evidence.

    also Im well aware of matchmaking and its why I laugh when people say it doesnt happen below plat.

    if the devs actually did anything about this then we might not have reached this point to begin with.

    NP, I post evidence of something that is hard to solve with this low population, how would you fix it? Would you limit how far the match maker can search for games? Devs have already tried to limit this, this ended up with us not getting QPOP whatsoever, is that a good way forward you think? We can go back so far where we had PIPS with ruby/diamond etc.

    When you were the first ones to reach diamond you could sit in q for 2 days without q pop btw since it limited diamond vs diamond players and couldnt search further. This is how it will end up if we limit the match maker, so what is your suggestion to fix this problem?

    How do you increase the quality in the games? Lock professions/comps? Who determines whats a good comp? If i get into a game with 5 roamers and versus a full teamfight/duelist comp you think thats good? How do you prevent this?

    Im genuinly interested in hearing how you would fix any of this

    Yay we are on the same page now :blush:

    all good questions.
    personally id list a few options.. probably not the most ideal but a lot better than what we have.
    Bring back team queue.. If I get these players then its my own fault for not being in a premade.
    dont allow f2p accounts in ranked.
    update the report features so they work.
    I know its off topic but im just being polite and responding anyway.
    I honestly believe that most of our issues today have come about due to the changes made in season 5.

    Currently if I wanted too, I could make an alt and do the same because it occurred to me today that we have created a haven for such behavior. (extremely heavy thought too after making this thread and reading responses)

    but..
    Even if someone posts proof, there will be 3 users who say its something else, another user saying the poster doesn't know what they're talking about, another poster confirming what they're seeing only to be met with 4 or 5 people calling them delusional and other posters saying its just a myth.
    Reporting doesn't work, naming and shaming is usually deleted and swept under the rug.
    Without realizing it, we are protecting these players... Now I'm wondering why I don't just join in, it's not like I can lose integrity over a video game anyway.

    What we have now, is a normal everyday situation but yet back in season 1-4 and before seasons were even a thing, it was just an outlier problem. Due to the lack of action, its now NORMAL to have 4 out of 5 games with only 4 players. I think that's a major issue, the fact we call that normal.

    doesn't matter if its match manipulation involving gold or just salty players throwing after mid fight, it just needs to stop. There really needs to be something to deter these aholes from ruining the game for 9 other players.

    Team queue would not solve anything, it would make people angry over getting matched up vs 5 man team as solo queuers, or how do you intend to limit this? Are we adding rating here too for matching up teams properly? Then the top end will play the same team over and over and thats not enjoyable or we will have 500-0 games which is not fun either. Just look at AT's or mAT's as an example we 500-0 the 3 first games, do you think it was fun for us or them?

    F2P accounts in ranked? I have nothing against this, I dont think the high end manipulate with f2p accounts, alt accounts perhaps but not f2p accounts, nothing i have seen.

    Report feature does not work for anything in this game since the start, report a bug or anything so I doubt they'll do anything about it

    Issues did not come from the changes made in S5, they made them more seeable, that's all. People actually opened their eyes and say "hey, look - fix this since it actually matters now to win/lose" previous systems there was no rewards for being a top player or decent player, you could farm legendary 47x times, did that mean you were good? no.

    The reason why you see this happening more often now is the declining population, having people afking cus they were losing has been happening since the start of the game with any punishment whatsoever. Hell even I afk in unranked when Im there for my daily and my team is getting stomped hard, why would I sit and make the game slow when it is 100% a loss?

    www.twitch.tv/sindrener - Rank 55 Dragons/Orange Logo/Team Aggression

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 27, 2019

    @bluri.2653 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @bluri.2653 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @bluri.2653 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @bluri.2653 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @bluri.2653 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    @sephiroth.4217 That's the kind of thing I'm talking about concerning general manipulations. These people aren't idle AFK players. They are sitting there in front of their screen, with salty demeanor as they rage quit at 50 to 100 after getting killed once. There needs to be more serious punishment for such buffoonery, to encourage players to not do it in the first place. The biggest problem with this type of behavior is that nowadays, when one quits they all start quitting. One guy quits and someone else notices and says "Oh it's 4v5 now, GG" and then he also rage AFKs. <- This is match throwing. Now if it were like 300 to 60, I understand players throwing in the towel to more quickly end the lopsided match, but 100 to 50 type situations are no reason to rage AFK. Players with such poor sportsmanship should not be allowed into ranked ques.

    The frequency of this garbage nowadays is just amazing. At least it is in NA.

    its happening quite a bit.

    despite what people say, I can tell the difference between match manipulation and this example of throwing. The last video had gold involved and chat being used for throwing.. thats match manipulation.
    this video is just the general throw that happens if mid fight wasn't favourable.

    Ye look at my live wintrading and match manipulation live streamed right here

    https://youtu.be/VPV0l5S8GVI?t=825 afk player gg match manipulation

    https://youtu.be/VPV0l5S8GVI?t=1457 4 dead mid instant gg throw on purpose

    https://youtu.be/VPV0l5S8GVI?t=1713 afk guard again... match manipulation gg

    only you would think this is about you.

    its for both you and trevor since he mentioned as soon as people afk in spawn its wintrading and ur agreeing with him, or your first post of 5 games = 5 manipulated :))

    i didnt agree with anyone. I said I know the difference despite what some say.

    first games I had involved chat being used for payments to win.. that was match manipulation.
    the second video was someone having a throw because the poor necro was focused.

    you seem to have trouble understanding this for what ever reason.

    Both cases are just as bad which is why im going to thank you for posting more evidence on the current state of ranked.

    Evidence on the current state of ranked? These type of games have existed since the beginning of the game, I have had people afk when it was lost since pre HoT times and you think suddenly now its some conspiracy match manipulation? Do you feel its a purpose playing when its 400-100 and you have had 20 deaths on your team?

    If anything the match making has its issues due to the low population in gw2 there is no other conspiracy behind it as you two seem to constantly think where each and every game is wintrading, that is nothing but salty tears.

    I am telling you that if there is even a slight possibility while queuing and I can end up with a game that differs 400-500 rating with me as a player and my teammate there is something wrong dont you think? This is the reason why these games exists, and even if there was a limit to 100 rating difference these games will still exist because of comps/lack of players

    Perfect example being 5 ESL players being 1700 rated and accidentally gets into the same team vs 5 non ESL players and it becomes 500-0 - the game has no knowledge that these people once upon a time used to compete in this game right? It only takes the rating and tries to balance the game.

    Also theres no possibility to limit search of a match with rating difference since that would end up the top tier never getting q pop.

    https://imgur.com/a/tM1Qwza

    Here i was 1900 rated and we ended up playing players that had 47% winratio and around 1230 rating, thats a whooping 700 rating difference :)

    okay sweetie.
    as I said earlier, thank you for posting more evidence.

    also Im well aware of matchmaking and its why I laugh when people say it doesnt happen below plat.

    if the devs actually did anything about this then we might not have reached this point to begin with.

    NP, I post evidence of something that is hard to solve with this low population, how would you fix it? Would you limit how far the match maker can search for games? Devs have already tried to limit this, this ended up with us not getting QPOP whatsoever, is that a good way forward you think? We can go back so far where we had PIPS with ruby/diamond etc.

    When you were the first ones to reach diamond you could sit in q for 2 days without q pop btw since it limited diamond vs diamond players and couldnt search further. This is how it will end up if we limit the match maker, so what is your suggestion to fix this problem?

    How do you increase the quality in the games? Lock professions/comps? Who determines whats a good comp? If i get into a game with 5 roamers and versus a full teamfight/duelist comp you think thats good? How do you prevent this?

    Im genuinly interested in hearing how you would fix any of this

    Yay we are on the same page now :blush:

    all good questions.
    personally id list a few options.. probably not the most ideal but a lot better than what we have.
    Bring back team queue.. If I get these players then its my own fault for not being in a premade.
    dont allow f2p accounts in ranked.
    update the report features so they work.
    I know its off topic but im just being polite and responding anyway.
    I honestly believe that most of our issues today have come about due to the changes made in season 5.

    Currently if I wanted too, I could make an alt and do the same because it occurred to me today that we have created a haven for such behavior. (extremely heavy thought too after making this thread and reading responses)

    but..
    Even if someone posts proof, there will be 3 users who say its something else, another user saying the poster doesn't know what they're talking about, another poster confirming what they're seeing only to be met with 4 or 5 people calling them delusional and other posters saying its just a myth.
    Reporting doesn't work, naming and shaming is usually deleted and swept under the rug.
    Without realizing it, we are protecting these players... Now I'm wondering why I don't just join in, it's not like I can lose integrity over a video game anyway.

    What we have now, is a normal everyday situation but yet back in season 1-4 and before seasons were even a thing, it was just an outlier problem. Due to the lack of action, its now NORMAL to have 4 out of 5 games with only 4 players. I think that's a major issue, the fact we call that normal.

    doesn't matter if its match manipulation involving gold or just salty players throwing after mid fight, it just needs to stop. There really needs to be something to deter these aholes from ruining the game for 9 other players.

    Team queue would not solve anything, it would make people angry over getting matched up vs 5 man team as solo queuers, or how do you intend to limit this? Are we adding rating here too for matching up teams properly? Then the top end will play the same team over and over and thats not enjoyable or we will have 500-0 games which is not fun either. Just look at AT's or mAT's as an example we 500-0 the 3 first games, do you think it was fun for us or them?

    F2P accounts in ranked? I have nothing against this, I dont think the high end manipulate with f2p accounts, alt accounts perhaps but not f2p accounts, nothing i have seen.

    Report feature does not work for anything in this game since the start, report a bug or anything so I doubt they'll do anything about it

    Issues did not come from the changes made in S5, they made them more seeable, that's all. People actually opened their eyes and say "hey, look - fix this since it actually matters now to win/lose" previous systems there was no rewards for being a top player or decent player, you could farm legendary 47x times, did that mean you were good? no.

    The reason why you see this happening more often now is the declining population, having people afking cus they were losing has been happening since the start of the game with any punishment whatsoever.

    I know nothing has been done about it hence this thread. Im trying to get Anets attention in helping us all but you havent made that an easy task lol.

    Im also asking the community to stand together against this because if we cant and anet wont do anything about it then I fear the population will continue to drop at drastic levels.

    if youre one of those top players who stream, would you rather boast about your accomplishments about being better than thousands of players at a higher rank or is it more fulfilling to say youre the best out of 50 players because you can beat silvers and golds?
    I dont know what you'd prefer, you dont even need to answer it to be honest, its just food for thought.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    06210311 251521 121512

  • bluri.2653bluri.2653 Member ✭✭✭

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @bluri.2653 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @bluri.2653 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @bluri.2653 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @bluri.2653 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @bluri.2653 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    @sephiroth.4217 That's the kind of thing I'm talking about concerning general manipulations. These people aren't idle AFK players. They are sitting there in front of their screen, with salty demeanor as they rage quit at 50 to 100 after getting killed once. There needs to be more serious punishment for such buffoonery, to encourage players to not do it in the first place. The biggest problem with this type of behavior is that nowadays, when one quits they all start quitting. One guy quits and someone else notices and says "Oh it's 4v5 now, GG" and then he also rage AFKs. <- This is match throwing. Now if it were like 300 to 60, I understand players throwing in the towel to more quickly end the lopsided match, but 100 to 50 type situations are no reason to rage AFK. Players with such poor sportsmanship should not be allowed into ranked ques.

    The frequency of this garbage nowadays is just amazing. At least it is in NA.

    its happening quite a bit.

    despite what people say, I can tell the difference between match manipulation and this example of throwing. The last video had gold involved and chat being used for throwing.. thats match manipulation.
    this video is just the general throw that happens if mid fight wasn't favourable.

    Ye look at my live wintrading and match manipulation live streamed right here

    https://youtu.be/VPV0l5S8GVI?t=825 afk player gg match manipulation

    https://youtu.be/VPV0l5S8GVI?t=1457 4 dead mid instant gg throw on purpose

    https://youtu.be/VPV0l5S8GVI?t=1713 afk guard again... match manipulation gg

    only you would think this is about you.

    its for both you and trevor since he mentioned as soon as people afk in spawn its wintrading and ur agreeing with him, or your first post of 5 games = 5 manipulated :))

    i didnt agree with anyone. I said I know the difference despite what some say.

    first games I had involved chat being used for payments to win.. that was match manipulation.
    the second video was someone having a throw because the poor necro was focused.

    you seem to have trouble understanding this for what ever reason.

    Both cases are just as bad which is why im going to thank you for posting more evidence on the current state of ranked.

    Evidence on the current state of ranked? These type of games have existed since the beginning of the game, I have had people afk when it was lost since pre HoT times and you think suddenly now its some conspiracy match manipulation? Do you feel its a purpose playing when its 400-100 and you have had 20 deaths on your team?

    If anything the match making has its issues due to the low population in gw2 there is no other conspiracy behind it as you two seem to constantly think where each and every game is wintrading, that is nothing but salty tears.

    I am telling you that if there is even a slight possibility while queuing and I can end up with a game that differs 400-500 rating with me as a player and my teammate there is something wrong dont you think? This is the reason why these games exists, and even if there was a limit to 100 rating difference these games will still exist because of comps/lack of players

    Perfect example being 5 ESL players being 1700 rated and accidentally gets into the same team vs 5 non ESL players and it becomes 500-0 - the game has no knowledge that these people once upon a time used to compete in this game right? It only takes the rating and tries to balance the game.

    Also theres no possibility to limit search of a match with rating difference since that would end up the top tier never getting q pop.

    https://imgur.com/a/tM1Qwza

    Here i was 1900 rated and we ended up playing players that had 47% winratio and around 1230 rating, thats a whooping 700 rating difference :)

    okay sweetie.
    as I said earlier, thank you for posting more evidence.

    also Im well aware of matchmaking and its why I laugh when people say it doesnt happen below plat.

    if the devs actually did anything about this then we might not have reached this point to begin with.

    NP, I post evidence of something that is hard to solve with this low population, how would you fix it? Would you limit how far the match maker can search for games? Devs have already tried to limit this, this ended up with us not getting QPOP whatsoever, is that a good way forward you think? We can go back so far where we had PIPS with ruby/diamond etc.

    When you were the first ones to reach diamond you could sit in q for 2 days without q pop btw since it limited diamond vs diamond players and couldnt search further. This is how it will end up if we limit the match maker, so what is your suggestion to fix this problem?

    How do you increase the quality in the games? Lock professions/comps? Who determines whats a good comp? If i get into a game with 5 roamers and versus a full teamfight/duelist comp you think thats good? How do you prevent this?

    Im genuinly interested in hearing how you would fix any of this

    Yay we are on the same page now :blush:

    all good questions.
    personally id list a few options.. probably not the most ideal but a lot better than what we have.
    Bring back team queue.. If I get these players then its my own fault for not being in a premade.
    dont allow f2p accounts in ranked.
    update the report features so they work.
    I know its off topic but im just being polite and responding anyway.
    I honestly believe that most of our issues today have come about due to the changes made in season 5.

    Currently if I wanted too, I could make an alt and do the same because it occurred to me today that we have created a haven for such behavior. (extremely heavy thought too after making this thread and reading responses)

    but..
    Even if someone posts proof, there will be 3 users who say its something else, another user saying the poster doesn't know what they're talking about, another poster confirming what they're seeing only to be met with 4 or 5 people calling them delusional and other posters saying its just a myth.
    Reporting doesn't work, naming and shaming is usually deleted and swept under the rug.
    Without realizing it, we are protecting these players... Now I'm wondering why I don't just join in, it's not like I can lose integrity over a video game anyway.

    What we have now, is a normal everyday situation but yet back in season 1-4 and before seasons were even a thing, it was just an outlier problem. Due to the lack of action, its now NORMAL to have 4 out of 5 games with only 4 players. I think that's a major issue, the fact we call that normal.

    doesn't matter if its match manipulation involving gold or just salty players throwing after mid fight, it just needs to stop. There really needs to be something to deter these aholes from ruining the game for 9 other players.

    Team queue would not solve anything, it would make people angry over getting matched up vs 5 man team as solo queuers, or how do you intend to limit this? Are we adding rating here too for matching up teams properly? Then the top end will play the same team over and over and thats not enjoyable or we will have 500-0 games which is not fun either. Just look at AT's or mAT's as an example we 500-0 the 3 first games, do you think it was fun for us or them?

    F2P accounts in ranked? I have nothing against this, I dont think the high end manipulate with f2p accounts, alt accounts perhaps but not f2p accounts, nothing i have seen.

    Report feature does not work for anything in this game since the start, report a bug or anything so I doubt they'll do anything about it

    Issues did not come from the changes made in S5, they made them more seeable, that's all. People actually opened their eyes and say "hey, look - fix this since it actually matters now to win/lose" previous systems there was no rewards for being a top player or decent player, you could farm legendary 47x times, did that mean you were good? no.

    The reason why you see this happening more often now is the declining population, having people afking cus they were losing has been happening since the start of the game with any punishment whatsoever.

    I know nothing has been done about it hence this thread. Im trying to get Anets attention in helping us all but you havent made that an easy task lol.

    Im also asking the community to stand together against this because if we cant and anet wont do anything about it then I fear the population will continue to drop at drastic levels.

    My suggestions has always been following after certain stuff gets released:

    1. Get swiss out, make finals in mAT bo3
    2. Increase the amount of AT's per day and add AT's on demand to fuel the "teams" that wants to play 5v5
    3. Make ranked SoloQ only
    4. Add 2v2 AT's on daily basis, I do not see any harm in this

    The other drastic method could be, in order to make solo queue a "practice ground" for you, to remove all rewards and re-focus them into AT's/MAT's and remove unranked to have ranked queue only

    www.twitch.tv/sindrener - Rank 55 Dragons/Orange Logo/Team Aggression

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @bluri.2653 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @bluri.2653 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @bluri.2653 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @bluri.2653 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @bluri.2653 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @bluri.2653 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    @sephiroth.4217 That's the kind of thing I'm talking about concerning general manipulations. These people aren't idle AFK players. They are sitting there in front of their screen, with salty demeanor as they rage quit at 50 to 100 after getting killed once. There needs to be more serious punishment for such buffoonery, to encourage players to not do it in the first place. The biggest problem with this type of behavior is that nowadays, when one quits they all start quitting. One guy quits and someone else notices and says "Oh it's 4v5 now, GG" and then he also rage AFKs. <- This is match throwing. Now if it were like 300 to 60, I understand players throwing in the towel to more quickly end the lopsided match, but 100 to 50 type situations are no reason to rage AFK. Players with such poor sportsmanship should not be allowed into ranked ques.

    The frequency of this garbage nowadays is just amazing. At least it is in NA.

    its happening quite a bit.

    despite what people say, I can tell the difference between match manipulation and this example of throwing. The last video had gold involved and chat being used for throwing.. thats match manipulation.
    this video is just the general throw that happens if mid fight wasn't favourable.

    Ye look at my live wintrading and match manipulation live streamed right here

    https://youtu.be/VPV0l5S8GVI?t=825 afk player gg match manipulation

    https://youtu.be/VPV0l5S8GVI?t=1457 4 dead mid instant gg throw on purpose

    https://youtu.be/VPV0l5S8GVI?t=1713 afk guard again... match manipulation gg

    only you would think this is about you.

    its for both you and trevor since he mentioned as soon as people afk in spawn its wintrading and ur agreeing with him, or your first post of 5 games = 5 manipulated :))

    i didnt agree with anyone. I said I know the difference despite what some say.

    first games I had involved chat being used for payments to win.. that was match manipulation.
    the second video was someone having a throw because the poor necro was focused.

    you seem to have trouble understanding this for what ever reason.

    Both cases are just as bad which is why im going to thank you for posting more evidence on the current state of ranked.

    Evidence on the current state of ranked? These type of games have existed since the beginning of the game, I have had people afk when it was lost since pre HoT times and you think suddenly now its some conspiracy match manipulation? Do you feel its a purpose playing when its 400-100 and you have had 20 deaths on your team?

    If anything the match making has its issues due to the low population in gw2 there is no other conspiracy behind it as you two seem to constantly think where each and every game is wintrading, that is nothing but salty tears.

    I am telling you that if there is even a slight possibility while queuing and I can end up with a game that differs 400-500 rating with me as a player and my teammate there is something wrong dont you think? This is the reason why these games exists, and even if there was a limit to 100 rating difference these games will still exist because of comps/lack of players

    Perfect example being 5 ESL players being 1700 rated and accidentally gets into the same team vs 5 non ESL players and it becomes 500-0 - the game has no knowledge that these people once upon a time used to compete in this game right? It only takes the rating and tries to balance the game.

    Also theres no possibility to limit search of a match with rating difference since that would end up the top tier never getting q pop.

    https://imgur.com/a/tM1Qwza

    Here i was 1900 rated and we ended up playing players that had 47% winratio and around 1230 rating, thats a whooping 700 rating difference :)

    okay sweetie.
    as I said earlier, thank you for posting more evidence.

    also Im well aware of matchmaking and its why I laugh when people say it doesnt happen below plat.

    if the devs actually did anything about this then we might not have reached this point to begin with.

    NP, I post evidence of something that is hard to solve with this low population, how would you fix it? Would you limit how far the match maker can search for games? Devs have already tried to limit this, this ended up with us not getting QPOP whatsoever, is that a good way forward you think? We can go back so far where we had PIPS with ruby/diamond etc.

    When you were the first ones to reach diamond you could sit in q for 2 days without q pop btw since it limited diamond vs diamond players and couldnt search further. This is how it will end up if we limit the match maker, so what is your suggestion to fix this problem?

    How do you increase the quality in the games? Lock professions/comps? Who determines whats a good comp? If i get into a game with 5 roamers and versus a full teamfight/duelist comp you think thats good? How do you prevent this?

    Im genuinly interested in hearing how you would fix any of this

    Yay we are on the same page now :blush:

    all good questions.
    personally id list a few options.. probably not the most ideal but a lot better than what we have.
    Bring back team queue.. If I get these players then its my own fault for not being in a premade.
    dont allow f2p accounts in ranked.
    update the report features so they work.
    I know its off topic but im just being polite and responding anyway.
    I honestly believe that most of our issues today have come about due to the changes made in season 5.

    Currently if I wanted too, I could make an alt and do the same because it occurred to me today that we have created a haven for such behavior. (extremely heavy thought too after making this thread and reading responses)

    but..
    Even if someone posts proof, there will be 3 users who say its something else, another user saying the poster doesn't know what they're talking about, another poster confirming what they're seeing only to be met with 4 or 5 people calling them delusional and other posters saying its just a myth.
    Reporting doesn't work, naming and shaming is usually deleted and swept under the rug.
    Without realizing it, we are protecting these players... Now I'm wondering why I don't just join in, it's not like I can lose integrity over a video game anyway.

    What we have now, is a normal everyday situation but yet back in season 1-4 and before seasons were even a thing, it was just an outlier problem. Due to the lack of action, its now NORMAL to have 4 out of 5 games with only 4 players. I think that's a major issue, the fact we call that normal.

    doesn't matter if its match manipulation involving gold or just salty players throwing after mid fight, it just needs to stop. There really needs to be something to deter these aholes from ruining the game for 9 other players.

    Team queue would not solve anything, it would make people angry over getting matched up vs 5 man team as solo queuers, or how do you intend to limit this? Are we adding rating here too for matching up teams properly? Then the top end will play the same team over and over and thats not enjoyable or we will have 500-0 games which is not fun either. Just look at AT's or mAT's as an example we 500-0 the 3 first games, do you think it was fun for us or them?

    F2P accounts in ranked? I have nothing against this, I dont think the high end manipulate with f2p accounts, alt accounts perhaps but not f2p accounts, nothing i have seen.

    Report feature does not work for anything in this game since the start, report a bug or anything so I doubt they'll do anything about it

    Issues did not come from the changes made in S5, they made them more seeable, that's all. People actually opened their eyes and say "hey, look - fix this since it actually matters now to win/lose" previous systems there was no rewards for being a top player or decent player, you could farm legendary 47x times, did that mean you were good? no.

    The reason why you see this happening more often now is the declining population, having people afking cus they were losing has been happening since the start of the game with any punishment whatsoever.

    I know nothing has been done about it hence this thread. Im trying to get Anets attention in helping us all but you havent made that an easy task lol.

    Im also asking the community to stand together against this because if we cant and anet wont do anything about it then I fear the population will continue to drop at drastic levels.

    My suggestions has always been following after certain stuff gets released:

    1. Get swiss out, make finals in mAT bo3
    2. Increase the amount of AT's per day and add AT's on demand to fuel the "teams" that wants to play 5v5
    3. Make ranked SoloQ only
    4. Add 2v2 AT's on daily basis, I do not see any harm in this

    The other drastic method could be, in order to make solo queue a "practice ground" for you, to remove all rewards and re-focus them into AT's/MAT's and remove unranked to have ranked queue only

    and those would be good options too..

    so many options to chose from that would help us all....

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    06210311 251521 121512

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 27, 2019

    @bluri.2653 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @bluri.2653 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @bluri.2653 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @bluri.2653 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @bluri.2653 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    @sephiroth.4217 That's the kind of thing I'm talking about concerning general manipulations. These people aren't idle AFK players. They are sitting there in front of their screen, with salty demeanor as they rage quit at 50 to 100 after getting killed once. There needs to be more serious punishment for such buffoonery, to encourage players to not do it in the first place. The biggest problem with this type of behavior is that nowadays, when one quits they all start quitting. One guy quits and someone else notices and says "Oh it's 4v5 now, GG" and then he also rage AFKs. <- This is match throwing. Now if it were like 300 to 60, I understand players throwing in the towel to more quickly end the lopsided match, but 100 to 50 type situations are no reason to rage AFK. Players with such poor sportsmanship should not be allowed into ranked ques.

    The frequency of this garbage nowadays is just amazing. At least it is in NA.

    its happening quite a bit.

    despite what people say, I can tell the difference between match manipulation and this example of throwing. The last video had gold involved and chat being used for throwing.. thats match manipulation.
    this video is just the general throw that happens if mid fight wasn't favourable.

    Ye look at my live wintrading and match manipulation live streamed right here

    https://youtu.be/VPV0l5S8GVI?t=825 afk player gg match manipulation

    https://youtu.be/VPV0l5S8GVI?t=1457 4 dead mid instant gg throw on purpose

    https://youtu.be/VPV0l5S8GVI?t=1713 afk guard again... match manipulation gg

    only you would think this is about you.

    its for both you and trevor since he mentioned as soon as people afk in spawn its wintrading and ur agreeing with him, or your first post of 5 games = 5 manipulated :))

    i didnt agree with anyone. I said I know the difference despite what some say.

    first games I had involved chat being used for payments to win.. that was match manipulation.
    the second video was someone having a throw because the poor necro was focused.

    you seem to have trouble understanding this for what ever reason.

    Both cases are just as bad which is why im going to thank you for posting more evidence on the current state of ranked.

    Evidence on the current state of ranked? These type of games have existed since the beginning of the game, I have had people afk when it was lost since pre HoT times and you think suddenly now its some conspiracy match manipulation? Do you feel its a purpose playing when its 400-100 and you have had 20 deaths on your team?

    If anything the match making has its issues due to the low population in gw2 there is no other conspiracy behind it as you two seem to constantly think where each and every game is wintrading, that is nothing but salty tears.

    I am telling you that if there is even a slight possibility while queuing and I can end up with a game that differs 400-500 rating with me as a player and my teammate there is something wrong dont you think? This is the reason why these games exists, and even if there was a limit to 100 rating difference these games will still exist because of comps/lack of players

    Perfect example being 5 ESL players being 1700 rated and accidentally gets into the same team vs 5 non ESL players and it becomes 500-0 - the game has no knowledge that these people once upon a time used to compete in this game right? It only takes the rating and tries to balance the game.

    Also theres no possibility to limit search of a match with rating difference since that would end up the top tier never getting q pop.

    https://imgur.com/a/tM1Qwza

    Here i was 1900 rated and we ended up playing players that had 47% winratio and around 1230 rating, thats a whooping 700 rating difference :)

    okay sweetie.
    as I said earlier, thank you for posting more evidence.

    also Im well aware of matchmaking and its why I laugh when people say it doesnt happen below plat.

    if the devs actually did anything about this then we might not have reached this point to begin with.

    NP, I post evidence of something that is hard to solve with this low population, how would you fix it? Would you limit how far the match maker can search for games? Devs have already tried to limit this, this ended up with us not getting QPOP whatsoever, is that a good way forward you think? We can go back so far where we had PIPS with ruby/diamond etc.

    When you were the first ones to reach diamond you could sit in q for 2 days without q pop btw since it limited diamond vs diamond players and couldnt search further. This is how it will end up if we limit the match maker, so what is your suggestion to fix this problem?

    How do you increase the quality in the games? Lock professions/comps? Who determines whats a good comp? If i get into a game with 5 roamers and versus a full teamfight/duelist comp you think thats good? How do you prevent this?

    Im genuinly interested in hearing how you would fix any of this

    Yay we are on the same page now :blush:

    all good questions.
    personally id list a few options.. probably not the most ideal but a lot better than what we have.
    Bring back team queue.. If I get these players then its my own fault for not being in a premade.
    dont allow f2p accounts in ranked.
    update the report features so they work.
    I know its off topic but im just being polite and responding anyway.
    I honestly believe that most of our issues today have come about due to the changes made in season 5.

    Currently if I wanted too, I could make an alt and do the same because it occurred to me today that we have created a haven for such behavior. (extremely heavy thought too after making this thread and reading responses)

    but..
    Even if someone posts proof, there will be 3 users who say its something else, another user saying the poster doesn't know what they're talking about, another poster confirming what they're seeing only to be met with 4 or 5 people calling them delusional and other posters saying its just a myth.
    Reporting doesn't work, naming and shaming is usually deleted and swept under the rug.
    Without realizing it, we are protecting these players... Now I'm wondering why I don't just join in, it's not like I can lose integrity over a video game anyway.

    What we have now, is a normal everyday situation but yet back in season 1-4 and before seasons were even a thing, it was just an outlier problem. Due to the lack of action, its now NORMAL to have 4 out of 5 games with only 4 players. I think that's a major issue, the fact we call that normal.

    doesn't matter if its match manipulation involving gold or just salty players throwing after mid fight, it just needs to stop. There really needs to be something to deter these aholes from ruining the game for 9 other players.

    Team queue would not solve anything, it would make people angry over getting matched up vs 5 man team as solo queuers, or how do you intend to limit this? Are we adding rating here too for matching up teams properly? Then the top end will play the same team over and over and thats not enjoyable or we will have 500-0 games which is not fun either. Just look at AT's or mAT's as an example we 500-0 the 3 first games, do you think it was fun for us or them?

    F2P accounts in ranked? I have nothing against this, I dont think the high end manipulate with f2p accounts, alt accounts perhaps but not f2p accounts, nothing i have seen.

    Report feature does not work for anything in this game since the start, report a bug or anything so I doubt they'll do anything about it

    Issues did not come from the changes made in S5, they made them more seeable, that's all. People actually opened their eyes and say "hey, look - fix this since it actually matters now to win/lose" previous systems there was no rewards for being a top player or decent player, you could farm legendary 47x times, did that mean you were good? no.

    The reason why you see this happening more often now is the declining population, having people afking cus they were losing has been happening since the start of the game with any punishment whatsoever. Hell even I afk in unranked when Im there for my daily and my team is getting stomped hard, why would I sit and make the game slow when it is 100% a loss?

    The f2p account issue is more about how a player is allowed to create an endless amount of them. Best way to explain this, is with my own experience when I did this in EU to test the servers:

    • Made a f2p account, rolled up my janky Core Ranger build. Older Ranger players are dangerous on Core Ranger if they know how to work marksmanship with Maul.
    • Easily leveled it to rank 20 within 2 to 3 days of casual play.
    • Came out of my first 15 matches in ranked at 1715 rating, and you know what? The matches weren't even hard. For me to be able to get 1715 in NA with my main after the first 15 games, the match maker would position me to have to carry so hard that it would be impossible in most cases. But on a fresh alt? That kitten was easy, like too easy. In fact I don't remember really needing to "carry" games at all during this. Maybe 1 or 2 games there felt like real pressure, pretty sure I did lose 1 of those 15 games, but for the most part you could feel the difference in that the match maker was placing me to be carried, not to be carrying.

    ^ So that's the problem. Before the algorithm can properly adjust these f2p account's MMR values, a player tears up through the leaderboards with a very general smurfing tactic that isn't even against the TOS, because these accounts are in the names of the players registering them. I could have made several accounts like this, and played them in the top of the leaderboards to block positions, which is not fair because I am 1 person. And during every phase where I come in like a fireball with no historical MMR on an account like that, all of the people on the teams I am against are getting bad match quality due to it. The algorithm makes a game that is supposed to be RED: Plat Gold Gold Silv Silv vs. Blue: Plat Gold (me Gold) Silv Silv, when in reality the Blue team is getting: Plat Gold (me Plat 2+) Silv Silv.

    Then on the other end of the spectrum here, we can see that older accounts have elevated base MMR simply because of the age of their account:

    The first phase, called filtering, gathers players based on their current MMR. The primary purpose of this phase is to both reduce the number of players being considered for a match, and to ensure that the match is appropriate given each player's skill level. Over time, padding is added to your player rating. While this may decrease match quality, it helps ensure that outliers still receive matches.

    The second phase of the algorithm is the scoring phase. During this phase each player is scored against every other player being considered for matchmaking. The metrics used during this phase include: rating, rank, games played, party size, profession, and dishonor. With each metric the system is looking for players that are as close as possible to the average of those already selected. The system also attempts to keep the number of duplicate professions to a minimum.

    So older accounts get more difficult games because their MMR is elevated due to lower left corner old glory rank and total games played. After reading this, it's no surprise as to why my alts with 30 or 40 glory rank and less than 200 games played, would get easier games than my main with nearly 800 glory rank and almost 15,000 games played. Considering the amount of people who play on alts nowadays, this needs to change. It should not be calculating additional MMR values based on glory rank and total games played, it just opens up a world of problems within the system.

    1. f2p needs to be removed from ranked entirely for several reasons: Too disruptive to the match making quality, Too easy to block multiple ranking positions as a single player, Opens up the door for too many easy throw tactics.
    2. They need to change how the algorithm works concerning inflated MMR values from glory rating and total games played. The more years that go on here, it is unrealistic to expect players with 15,000 games played, or 20,000 games played, or 25,000+ games played, with 1500+ glory rank to realistically carry that additional MMR weight against new accounts. That is a ridiculous handicap and sort of a slap to the face to the older player base who has stuck around supporting Guild Wars 2.

    Unless I am confused on these functions, that is what the algorithm notes say it's doing.

  • bluri.2653bluri.2653 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 27, 2019

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @bluri.2653 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @bluri.2653 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @bluri.2653 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @bluri.2653 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @bluri.2653 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    @sephiroth.4217 That's the kind of thing I'm talking about concerning general manipulations. These people aren't idle AFK players. They are sitting there in front of their screen, with salty demeanor as they rage quit at 50 to 100 after getting killed once. There needs to be more serious punishment for such buffoonery, to encourage players to not do it in the first place. The biggest problem with this type of behavior is that nowadays, when one quits they all start quitting. One guy quits and someone else notices and says "Oh it's 4v5 now, GG" and then he also rage AFKs. <- This is match throwing. Now if it were like 300 to 60, I understand players throwing in the towel to more quickly end the lopsided match, but 100 to 50 type situations are no reason to rage AFK. Players with such poor sportsmanship should not be allowed into ranked ques.

    The frequency of this garbage nowadays is just amazing. At least it is in NA.

    its happening quite a bit.

    despite what people say, I can tell the difference between match manipulation and this example of throwing. The last video had gold involved and chat being used for throwing.. thats match manipulation.
    this video is just the general throw that happens if mid fight wasn't favourable.

    Ye look at my live wintrading and match manipulation live streamed right here

    https://youtu.be/VPV0l5S8GVI?t=825 afk player gg match manipulation

    https://youtu.be/VPV0l5S8GVI?t=1457 4 dead mid instant gg throw on purpose

    https://youtu.be/VPV0l5S8GVI?t=1713 afk guard again... match manipulation gg

    only you would think this is about you.

    its for both you and trevor since he mentioned as soon as people afk in spawn its wintrading and ur agreeing with him, or your first post of 5 games = 5 manipulated :))

    i didnt agree with anyone. I said I know the difference despite what some say.

    first games I had involved chat being used for payments to win.. that was match manipulation.
    the second video was someone having a throw because the poor necro was focused.

    you seem to have trouble understanding this for what ever reason.

    Both cases are just as bad which is why im going to thank you for posting more evidence on the current state of ranked.

    Evidence on the current state of ranked? These type of games have existed since the beginning of the game, I have had people afk when it was lost since pre HoT times and you think suddenly now its some conspiracy match manipulation? Do you feel its a purpose playing when its 400-100 and you have had 20 deaths on your team?

    If anything the match making has its issues due to the low population in gw2 there is no other conspiracy behind it as you two seem to constantly think where each and every game is wintrading, that is nothing but salty tears.

    I am telling you that if there is even a slight possibility while queuing and I can end up with a game that differs 400-500 rating with me as a player and my teammate there is something wrong dont you think? This is the reason why these games exists, and even if there was a limit to 100 rating difference these games will still exist because of comps/lack of players

    Perfect example being 5 ESL players being 1700 rated and accidentally gets into the same team vs 5 non ESL players and it becomes 500-0 - the game has no knowledge that these people once upon a time used to compete in this game right? It only takes the rating and tries to balance the game.

    Also theres no possibility to limit search of a match with rating difference since that would end up the top tier never getting q pop.

    https://imgur.com/a/tM1Qwza

    Here i was 1900 rated and we ended up playing players that had 47% winratio and around 1230 rating, thats a whooping 700 rating difference :)

    okay sweetie.
    as I said earlier, thank you for posting more evidence.

    also Im well aware of matchmaking and its why I laugh when people say it doesnt happen below plat.

    if the devs actually did anything about this then we might not have reached this point to begin with.

    NP, I post evidence of something that is hard to solve with this low population, how would you fix it? Would you limit how far the match maker can search for games? Devs have already tried to limit this, this ended up with us not getting QPOP whatsoever, is that a good way forward you think? We can go back so far where we had PIPS with ruby/diamond etc.

    When you were the first ones to reach diamond you could sit in q for 2 days without q pop btw since it limited diamond vs diamond players and couldnt search further. This is how it will end up if we limit the match maker, so what is your suggestion to fix this problem?

    How do you increase the quality in the games? Lock professions/comps? Who determines whats a good comp? If i get into a game with 5 roamers and versus a full teamfight/duelist comp you think thats good? How do you prevent this?

    Im genuinly interested in hearing how you would fix any of this

    Yay we are on the same page now :blush:

    all good questions.
    personally id list a few options.. probably not the most ideal but a lot better than what we have.
    Bring back team queue.. If I get these players then its my own fault for not being in a premade.
    dont allow f2p accounts in ranked.
    update the report features so they work.
    I know its off topic but im just being polite and responding anyway.
    I honestly believe that most of our issues today have come about due to the changes made in season 5.

    Currently if I wanted too, I could make an alt and do the same because it occurred to me today that we have created a haven for such behavior. (extremely heavy thought too after making this thread and reading responses)

    but..
    Even if someone posts proof, there will be 3 users who say its something else, another user saying the poster doesn't know what they're talking about, another poster confirming what they're seeing only to be met with 4 or 5 people calling them delusional and other posters saying its just a myth.
    Reporting doesn't work, naming and shaming is usually deleted and swept under the rug.
    Without realizing it, we are protecting these players... Now I'm wondering why I don't just join in, it's not like I can lose integrity over a video game anyway.

    What we have now, is a normal everyday situation but yet back in season 1-4 and before seasons were even a thing, it was just an outlier problem. Due to the lack of action, its now NORMAL to have 4 out of 5 games with only 4 players. I think that's a major issue, the fact we call that normal.

    doesn't matter if its match manipulation involving gold or just salty players throwing after mid fight, it just needs to stop. There really needs to be something to deter these aholes from ruining the game for 9 other players.

    Team queue would not solve anything, it would make people angry over getting matched up vs 5 man team as solo queuers, or how do you intend to limit this? Are we adding rating here too for matching up teams properly? Then the top end will play the same team over and over and thats not enjoyable or we will have 500-0 games which is not fun either. Just look at AT's or mAT's as an example we 500-0 the 3 first games, do you think it was fun for us or them?

    F2P accounts in ranked? I have nothing against this, I dont think the high end manipulate with f2p accounts, alt accounts perhaps but not f2p accounts, nothing i have seen.

    Report feature does not work for anything in this game since the start, report a bug or anything so I doubt they'll do anything about it

    Issues did not come from the changes made in S5, they made them more seeable, that's all. People actually opened their eyes and say "hey, look - fix this since it actually matters now to win/lose" previous systems there was no rewards for being a top player or decent player, you could farm legendary 47x times, did that mean you were good? no.

    The reason why you see this happening more often now is the declining population, having people afking cus they were losing has been happening since the start of the game with any punishment whatsoever. Hell even I afk in unranked when Im there for my daily and my team is getting stomped hard, why would I sit and make the game slow when it is 100% a loss?

    The f2p account issue is more about how a player is allowed to create an endless amount of them. Best way to explain this, is with my own experience when I did this in EU to test the servers:

    • Made a f2p account, rolled up my janky Core Ranger build. Older Ranger players are dangerous on Core Ranger if they know how to work marksmanship with Maul.
    • Easily leveled it to rank 20 within 2 to 3 days of casual play.
    • Came out of my first 15 matches in ranked at 1715 rating, and you know what? The matches weren't even hard. For me to be able to get 1715 in NA with my main after the first 15 games, the match maker would position me to have to carry so hard that it would be impossible in most cases. But on a fresh alt? That kitten was easy, like too easy. In fact I don't remember really needing to "carry" games at all during this. Maybe 1 or 2 games there felt like real pressure, pretty sure I did lose 1 of those 15 games, but for the most part you could feel the difference in that the match maker was placing me to be carried, not to be carrying.

    ^ So that's the problem. Before the algorithm can properly adjust these f2p account's MMR values, a player tears up through the leaderboards with a very general smurfing tactic that isn't even against the TOS, because these accounts are in the names of the players registering them. I could have made several accounts like this, and played them in the top of the leaderboards to block positions, which is not fair because I am 1 person. And during every phase where I come in like a fireball with no historical MMR on an account like that, all of the people on the teams I am against are getting bad match quality due to it. The algorithm makes a game that is supposed to be RED: Plat Gold Gold Silv Silv vs. Blue: Plat Gold (me Gold) Silv Silv, when in reality the Blue team is getting: Plat Gold (me Plat 2+) Silv Silv.

    Then on the other end of the spectrum here, we can see that older accounts have elevated base MMR simply because of the age of their account:

    _The first phase, called filtering, gathers players based on their current MMR. The primary purpose of this phase is to both reduce the number of players being considered for a match, and to ensure that the match is appropriate given each player's skill level. Over time, padding is added to your player rating. While this may decrease match quality, it helps ensure that outliers still receive matches.

    The second phase of the algorithm is the scoring phase. During this phase each player is scored against every other player being considered for matchmaking. The metrics used during this phase include: rating, rank, games played, party size, profession, and dishonor. With each metric the system is looking for players that are as close as possible to the average of those already selected. The system also attempts to keep the number of duplicate professions to a minimum. _

    So older accounts get more difficult games because their MMR is elevated due to lower left corner old glory rank and total games played. After reading this, it's no surprise as to why my alts with 30 or 40 glory rank and less than 200 games played, would get easier games than my main with nearly 800 glory rank and almost 15,000 games played. Considering the amount of people who play on alts nowadays, this needs to change. It should not be calculating additional MMR values based on glory rank and total games played, it just opens up a world of problems within the system.

    1. f2p needs to be removed from ranked entirely for several reasons: Too disruptive to the match making quality, Too easy to block multiple ranking positions as a single player, Opens up the door for too many easy throw tactics.
    2. They need to change how the algorithm works concerning inflated MMR values from glory rating and total games played. The more years that go on here, it is unrealistic to expect players with 15,000 games played, or 20,000 games played, or 25,000+ games played, with 1500+ glory rank to realistically carry that additional MMR weight against new accounts. That is a ridiculous handicap and sort of a slap to the face to the older player base who has stuck around supporting Guild Wars 2.

    Unless I am confused on these functions, that is what the algorithm notes say it's doing.

    These metrics apply for anyone, I did my placements yesterday and got legendary 1830 and my rating is still volatile and i won 4 more. Im currently almost rated 1900 and closest in EU is 1780. Volatile rating is a thing and won't change. I am 14-1 i think.

    My account ages has nothing to do with how my games are lol

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